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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ 2006 - Jan/Feb ~
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Subject: About the quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 04:00:20 -0800
Effort is needed -- there are no free lunches.
Shar: I see this statement as a divided one. I can understand the need for effort as a way to achieve something. To gain something. And to become accomplished as something or someone. And yet, it is through non-effort that we just do what needs to be done without recognition and attachment to the I of doing, while being aware of what is being done.
Effort is Beauty
Shar: Effort is beauty when there is no attachment to the outcome.
and effort is what makes one Realize one's Inner Potential.
Shar: Everything one does, effects the whole. Inner potential is effort without attachment to a prize. Simply just 'to do' and 'to be' One can not measure or achieve a potential. Don't think about where you are on the path, simply become the path.
"On this Path, Effort never goes to waste -- and there is no failure".
Shar: It has been said, Doo Be Doo Be Doo, be love forever.
Effort is love in motion.
I dunno................
Good morning........... Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote....
From: "E.J." <ejLight@light-mission.org>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 06:51:18 -0800
Greetings Sharlene,
Thank you for stopping in.
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 04:00:20 -0800, you wrote:
->Effort is needed -- there are no free lunches. -> ->Shar: I see this statement as a divided one.
Yes divided, with two hyphens between 'needed' and 'there' {8-)
->I can understand the need for effort as a way to achieve something. ->To gain something. And to become accomplished as something or someone.
There is more of an effort in being nothing or no one, these days. It takes effort to counter conditionings and to root them out, since they are deeply engrained. There is also effort in intention, such as Conviction and Determination, the Will to Overcome conditionings. Effort from the herd perspective is not the same as effort to those working on themselves to Wake-Up from the Illusions of the world. This has confused many. No 'free lunch', we do not 'get Saved', we have to Save ourselves. Call it inertia, if you will, a body a rest takes effort to get the body in motion. It all sort of depends on whether one sees the glass half full or half empty {8-)
->And yet, it is through non-effort that we just do what needs to be done ->without recognition and attachment to the I of doing, while being aware ->of what is being done.
As spoken of above, effortless effort is the 'doing' without a 'doer', just doing what needs to be done without thought of doing or anyone doing it. In this way the doing and the effort to do is simply a Flow or Dance of What-IS, with no relevance other than it IS. This is the Beauty of Effort.
-> Effort is Beauty -> ->Shar: Effort is beauty when there is no attachment to the outcome.
Precisely {8-)
->and effort is what makes one Realize one's Inner Potential.
*Deep Bow*
->Shar: Everything one does, effects the whole. ->Inner potential is effort without attachment to a prize. ->Simply just 'to do' and 'to be' ->One can not measure or achieve a potential. ->Don't think about where you are on the path, simply ->become the path.
Absolutely.
-> "On this Path, ->Effort never goes to waste -- and there is no failure". -> ->Shar: It has been said, ->Doo Be Doo Be Doo, be love forever.
BEing Real is BEing Love and Life and Flow and Dance and All that IS What-IS.
->Effort is love in motion. -> ->I dunno................
Everything is Love in Motion, no need to leave effort out {8-) Everything is a Flow or Dance whether it be effort or non-effort The Dance Goes On...... and On..... and On..... so, let's Dance {8-) Or is that too much of an effort {8->
->Good morning........... ->Shar
It IS a good morning, and the top of it to you for stopping into this little Oasis and saying so {8-)
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "E.J." <ejLight@light-mission.org>
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:19:45 -0800
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 04:00:20 -0800, you wrote:
->Shar: ->I can understand the need for effort as a way to achieve something. ->To gain something. And to become accomplished as something or someone. ->And yet, it is through non-effort that we just do what needs to be done ->without recognition and attachment to the I of doing, while being aware ->of what is being done.
"The question is not what you look at, but what you see." -- Henry David Thoreau
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:27:30 -0500
Hi Rhonda and Shar,
>> >"The question is not what you look at, >> > but what you see." -- Henry David Thoreau
I see this quote going more in depth in knowing the reality as it is in the moment. And not limiting one to what you only look only at the surface. Pointing towards inner awareness. That doesn't mean the appearances are always deceptive.
Comments?
Regards.....Ram
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... From: har <sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:24:54 -0800
>Greetings Sharlene, >Thank you for stopping in.
Well hello, Had to make sure someone was alive on this list.
>->Shar: I see this statement as a divided one. > > Yes divided, with two hyphens between 'needed' and 'there' {8-)
Ah so, did it make you smile when you read that? Thought I would throw that in as an opening. :)
> There is more of an effort in being nothing or no one, these days.
ha ha, Its so true. Seems to be the in sayings these days.
>It >takes effort to counter conditionings and to root them out, since they are >deeply engrained.
Well, it seems to me that when one purposely goes looking for these things, they are never found. For some reason the ego gets the message across that there is nothing wrong with you. Like those who keep saying, I am OK and You are OK. Or everything is as it should be. Or, you are perfect just as you are. This could be true, and may be true, at some point in linear time. But for most, it is the big illusion that keeps the suffering happening in the now.
> There is also effort in intention, such as Conviction >and Determination, the Will to Overcome conditionings.
It has to be a commitment to yourself.
>Effort from the >herd perspective is not the same as effort to those working on themselves >to Wake-Up from the Illusions of the world. This has confused many.
The effort comes in being aware, or open to the subtle changes in the senses, the body language, the monkey mind and habits. It is not physical effort, but a mental one.
> No >'free lunch', we do not 'get Saved', we have to Save ourselves.
Of course we do. It also seems that once we make that commitment to ourselves, there is no turning back. No matter how hard we fight it, or how far we think we can run away from it, it is always there taunting us. Once you open that door, it never closes. Like the old saying 'you can never step into the same river twice'
> Call it >inertia, if you will, a body a rest takes effort to get the body in motion. >It all sort of depends on whether one sees the glass half full or half >empty {8-)
In my eyes, the glass is always full.
>->And yet, it is through non-effort that we just do what needs to be done >->without recognition and attachment to the I of doing, while being aware >->of what is being done. > > As spoken of above, effortless effort is the 'doing' without a 'doer', >just doing what needs to be done without thought of doing or anyone doing >it. In this way the doing and the effort to do is simply a Flow or Dance >of What-IS, with no relevance other than it IS. This is the Beauty of >Effort.
I think the confusion for many lies in the difference between physical effort, and the ego's attachment to seeing a result of the doing. Physical effort is the dance, non effort is hearing and seeing the music being played.
> Everything is Love in Motion, no need to leave effort out {8-) >Everything is a Flow or Dance whether it be effort or non-effort The Dance >Goes On...... and On..... and On..... so, let's Dance {8-) Or is that too >much of an effort {8->
ha ha, did we ever stop ?
>->Good morning........... >->Shar > > It IS a good morning, and the top of it to you for stopping into this >little Oasis and saying so {8-)
I am just amazed that no one has anything to say or share. You must be keeping them all busy with nose to the grindstone. When's coffee break?
Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:24:56 -0800
> >"The question is not what you look at, > but what you see." -- Henry David Thoreau
Only believe half of what you see, and nothing that you hear. Belief is for the death and the blind. Here is a small riddle I heard one day.
If there is only one thing, how big is it?
Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:25:04 -0800
> >"The question is not what you look at, > > but what you see." -- Henry David Thoreau > > Only believe half of what you see, > and nothing that you hear. > Belief is for the death and the blind. > Here is a small riddle I heard one day. > > If there is only one thing, how big is it?
I KNOW the answer to that riddle! It is as small as small can get AND as BIG as big can get! I have Seen it and this is the Truth. It cannot be confined to a size. It is the Dot. And it grows and diminishes as needed.
:)
Nothin' like firsthand experience! :))
Love, rhonda > Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:25:06 -0800
> > > If there is only one thing, how big is it? > >I KNOW the answer to that riddle! >It is as small as small can get AND as BIG as big can get! >I have Seen it and this is the Truth. It cannot be confined >to a size. It is the Dot. And it grows and diminishes as >needed. >:) >Nothin' like firsthand experience! :)) >Love, rhonda
Ah so ! Rhonda Rhonda. Good to see you about. I am in between chores so am making this short,
What is a dot?
lol Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote....
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:25:09 -0800
-> ->>Greetings Sharlene, ->>Thank you for stopping in. -> ->Well hello, ->Had to make sure someone was alive on this list.
Thank you, with almost 50 subscribers to this forum it would seem that more would have something to say. But it is a joy to see the handful who do offer something {8-)
->>->Shar: I see this statement as a divided one. ->> ->> Yes divided, with two hyphens between 'needed' and 'there' {8-) -> ->Ah so, did it make you smile when you read that?
Yes that was one of those "here's your sign" {8-)
->Thought I would throw that in as an opening. :)
Indeed got the ball rolling {8-)
->> There is more of an effort in being nothing or no one, these days. -> ->ha ha, Its so true. Seems to be the in sayings these days. -> ->>It ->>takes effort to counter conditionings and to root them out, since they are ->>deeply engrained. -> ->Well, it seems to me that when one purposely goes looking for these things, ->they are never found.
The effort of self-observation and self-inquiry does uncover the dregs lodged in the works. There are a number of practices for locating and dislodging unhealthy conditionings, and one has to go about it purposely. Many get snagged by looking in all the wrong places so can never locate anything thus they 'think' there is nothing to dislodge.
->For some reason the ego gets the message across ->that there is nothing wrong with you. Like those who keep saying, ->I am OK and You are OK. Or everything is as it should be. Or, you are perfect ->just as you are.
Yes that is the easy way out, everything being fine just the way it is. Problem is that nothing is AS it IS, rather it is our projections and erroneous meanings projected onto/into everything so it is quite made up to be other than What it IS. When we see all AS it IS without projecting conditioned notions onto it then it surely IS Perfect just the way it IS. People are perfect AS they ARE too, but they have become robots thus not Who they ARE.
->This could be true, and may be true, at some point in linear time. But for ->most, it is ->the big illusion that keeps the suffering happening in the now.
Absolutely a huge Illusion by misconstruing 'all is perfect as it is' when nothing can be AS it IS when people project conditionings onto everything making it whatever they want it to be. Made into something other than anything IS then it can not really be perfect. All is Perfect ONLY AS it IS without our projections into/onto it.
->> There is also effort in intention, such as Conviction ->>and Determination, the Will to Overcome conditionings. -> ->It has to be a commitment to yourself.
Of course, a Vow to oneself to Unconditionally Persist and Persevere thus Overcome. Whatever it takes is the Key.
->>Effort from the ->>herd perspective is not the same as effort to those working on themselves ->>to Wake-Up from the Illusions of the world. This has confused many. -> ->The effort comes in being aware, or open to the subtle changes in the ->senses, the body language, the monkey mind and habits. It is not physical ->effort, but a mental one.
True. The only physical effort is getting off the couch or out of the bed or scrounging for whatever. The Real Work on oneself is not physical at all other than various practices. The Real Work is in the head and the Heart on the deeply rooted conditionings.
->> No ->>'free lunch', we do not 'get Saved', we have to Save ourselves. -> ->Of course we do. It also seems that once we make that commitment to ourselves, ->there is no turning back. No matter how hard we fight it, ->or how far we think we can run away from it, it is always there taunting us. ->Once you open that door, it never closes. ->Like the old saying 'you can never step into the same river twice'
*Deep Bow*
->> Call it ->>inertia, if you will, a body a rest takes effort to get the body in motion. ->>It all sort of depends on whether one sees the glass half full or half ->>empty {8-) -> ->In my eyes, the glass is always full.
If the glass is full then how can you get any Wisdom in there? Do we not have to Empty the Vessel of conditionings so it can be Filled with Light? Is not the Empty glass the one most Full?
->>->And yet, it is through non-effort that we just do what needs to be done ->>->without recognition and attachment to the I of doing, while being aware ->>->of what is being done. ->> ->> As spoken of above, effortless effort is the 'doing' without a 'doer', ->>just doing what needs to be done without thought of doing or anyone doing ->>it. In this way the doing and the effort to do is simply a Flow or Dance ->>of What-IS, with no relevance other than it IS. This is the Beauty of ->>Effort. -> ->I think the confusion for many lies in the difference between physical effort, ->and the ego's attachment to seeing a result of the doing. Physical effort ->is the dance, ->non effort is hearing and seeing the music being played.
This could be the case, because no one wants to put forth physical effort even to get off the couch let alone Work on themselves. Though the Real Work is done within (phenomenally speaking) there is also physical effort that must be made so we should not completely rule out physical effort. There are physical practices to help with the Work within (phenomenally speaking) on ourselves. Looking at things realistically {8-)
->> Everything is Love in Motion, no need to leave effort out {8-) ->>Everything is a Flow or Dance whether it be effort or non-effort The Dance ->>Goes On...... and On..... and On..... so, let's Dance {8-) Or is that too ->>much of an effort {8-> -> ->ha ha, did we ever stop ?
Not really, when the Dancer IS the Dance {8-)
->>->Good morning........... ->>->Shar ->> ->> It IS a good morning, and the top of it to you for stopping into this ->>little Oasis and saying so {8-) -> ->I am just amazed that no one has anything to say ->or share. You must be keeping them all busy with nose to the grindstone. ->When's coffee break? -> ->Shar
Indeed it seems that we have more listeners here than partakers, but hopefully others will stop in once the weekend flurries subside {8-) The mountains do make a pleasant setting for Dharma Talks {8-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:25:12 -0800
>Greetings Sharlene, >Thank you for stopping in.
Well hello, Had to make sure someone was alive on this list.
>->Shar: I see this statement as a divided one. > > Yes divided, with two hyphens between 'needed' and 'there' {8-)
Ah so, did it make you smile when you read that? Thought I would throw that in as an opening. :)
> There is more of an effort in being nothing or no one, these days.
ha ha, Its so true. Seems to be the in sayings these days.
>It >takes effort to counter conditionings and to root them out, since they are >deeply engrained.
Well, it seems to me that when one purposely goes looking for these things, they are never found. For some reason the ego gets the message across that there is nothing wrong with you. Like those who keep saying, I am OK and You are OK. Or everything is as it should be. Or, you are perfect just as you are. This could be true, and may be true, at some point in linear time. But for most, it is the big illusion that keeps the suffering happening in the now.
> There is also effort in intention, such as Conviction >and Determination, the Will to Overcome conditionings.
It has to be a commitment to yourself.
>Effort from the >herd perspective is not the same as effort to those working on themselves >to Wake-Up from the Illusions of the world. This has confused many.
The effort comes in being aware, or open to the subtle changes in the senses, the body language, the monkey mind and habits. It is not physical effort, but a mental one.
> No >'free lunch', we do not 'get Saved', we have to Save ourselves.
Of course we do. It also seems that once we make that commitment to ourselves, there is no turning back. No matter how hard we fight it, or how far we think we can run away from it, it is always there taunting us. Once you open that door, it never closes. Like the old saying 'you can never step into the same river twice'
> Call it >inertia, if you will, a body a rest takes effort to get the body in motion. >It all sort of depends on whether one sees the glass half full or half >empty {8-)
In my eyes, the glass is always full.
>->And yet, it is through non-effort that we just do what needs to be done >->without recognition and attachment to the I of doing, while being aware >->of what is being done. > > As spoken of above, effortless effort is the 'doing' without a 'doer', >just doing what needs to be done without thought of doing or anyone doing >it. In this way the doing and the effort to do is simply a Flow or Dance >of What-IS, with no relevance other than it IS. This is the Beauty of >Effort.
I think the confusion for many lies in the difference between physical effort, and the ego's attachment to seeing a result of the doing. Physical effort is the dance, non effort is hearing and seeing the music being played.
> Everything is Love in Motion, no need to leave effort out {8-) >Everything is a Flow or Dance whether it be effort or non-effort The Dance >Goes On...... and On..... and On..... so, let's Dance {8-) Or is that too >much of an effort {8->
ha ha, did we ever stop ?
>->Good morning........... >->Shar > > It IS a good morning, and the top of it to you for stopping into this >little Oasis and saying so {8-)
I am just amazed that no one has anything to say or share. You must be keeping them all busy with nose to the grindstone. When's coffee break?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:25:14 -0800
> > > What is a dot? > > If you take a piece of plain white computer paper and >a sharply pointed pencil and "Dot" the paper with it.... >THAT IS THE DOT. >it is nothing and yet on that piece of paper it IS everything. >....and a hearty smile to you, too ha!
LOL, you missed the whole question,
The question is, if there is only one thing, how big is it?
With your interpretation, there has to be at least four things, not one. One to draw the dot, the pencil, the paper and the dot itself. So, with this in mind, what size is it? Can I laugh now?
Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote....
From: "E.J." <ejLight@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:25:16 -0800
-> ->>Greetings Sharlene, ->>Thank you for stopping in. -> ->Well hello, ->Had to make sure someone was alive on this list.
Thank you, with almost 50 subscribers to this forum it would seem that more would have something to say. But it is a joy to see the handful who do offer something {8-)
->>->Shar: I see this statement as a divided one. ->> ->> Yes divided, with two hyphens between 'needed' and 'there' {8-) -> ->Ah so, did it make you smile when you read that?
Yes that was one of those "here's your sign" {8-)
->Thought I would throw that in as an opening. :)
Indeed got the ball rolling {8-)
->> There is more of an effort in being nothing or no one, these days. -> ->ha ha, Its so true. Seems to be the in sayings these days. -> ->>It ->>takes effort to counter conditionings and to root them out, since they are ->>deeply engrained. -> ->Well, it seems to me that when one purposely goes looking for these things, ->they are never found.
The effort of self-observation and self-inquiry does uncover the dregs lodged in the works. There are a number of practices for locating and dislodging unhealthy conditionings, and one has to go about it purposely. Many get snagged by looking in all the wrong places so can never locate anything thus they 'think' there is nothing to dislodge.
->For some reason the ego gets the message across ->that there is nothing wrong with you. Like those who keep saying, ->I am OK and You are OK. Or everything is as it should be. Or, you are perfect ->just as you are.
Yes that is the easy way out, everything being fine just the way it is. Problem is that nothing is AS it IS, rather it is our projections and erroneous meanings projected onto/into everything so it is quite made up to be other than What it IS. When we see all AS it IS without projecting conditioned notions onto it then it surely IS Perfect just the way it IS. People are perfect AS they ARE too, but they have become robots thus not Who they ARE.
->This could be true, and may be true, at some point in linear time. But for ->most, it is ->the big illusion that keeps the suffering happening in the now.
Absolutely a huge Illusion by misconstruing 'all is perfect as it is' when nothing can be AS it IS when people project conditionings onto everything making it whatever they want it to be. Made into something other than anything IS then it can not really be perfect. All is Perfect ONLY AS it IS without our projections into/onto it.
->> There is also effort in intention, such as Conviction ->>and Determination, the Will to Overcome conditionings. -> ->It has to be a commitment to yourself.
Of course, a Vow to oneself to Unconditionally Persist and Persevere thus Overcome. Whatever it takes is the Key.
->>Effort from the ->>herd perspective is not the same as effort to those working on themselves ->>to Wake-Up from the Illusions of the world. This has confused many. -> ->The effort comes in being aware, or open to the subtle changes in the ->senses, the body language, the monkey mind and habits. It is not physical ->effort, but a mental one.
True. The only physical effort is getting off the couch or out of the bed or scrounging for whatever. The Real Work on oneself is not physical at all other than various practices. The Real Work is in the head and the Heart on the deeply rooted conditionings.
->> No ->>'free lunch', we do not 'get Saved', we have to Save ourselves. -> ->Of course we do. It also seems that once we make that commitment to ourselves, ->there is no turning back. No matter how hard we fight it, ->or how far we think we can run away from it, it is always there taunting us. ->Once you open that door, it never closes. ->Like the old saying 'you can never step into the same river twice'
*Deep Bow*
->> Call it ->>inertia, if you will, a body a rest takes effort to get the body in motion. ->>It all sort of depends on whether one sees the glass half full or half ->>empty {8-) -> ->In my eyes, the glass is always full.
If the glass is full then how can you get any Wisdom in there? Do we not have to Empty the Vessel of conditionings so it can be Filled with Light? Is not the Empty glass the one most Full?
->>->And yet, it is through non-effort that we just do what needs to be done ->>->without recognition and attachment to the I of doing, while being aware ->>->of what is being done. ->> ->> As spoken of above, effortless effort is the 'doing' without a 'doer', ->>just doing what needs to be done without thought of doing or anyone doing ->>it. In this way the doing and the effort to do is simply a Flow or Dance ->>of What-IS, with no relevance other than it IS. This is the Beauty of ->>Effort. -> ->I think the confusion for many lies in the difference between physical effort, ->and the ego's attachment to seeing a result of the doing. Physical effort ->is the dance, ->non effort is hearing and seeing the music being played.
This could be the case, because no one wants to put forth physical effort even to get off the couch let alone Work on themselves. Though the Real Work is done within (phenomenally speaking) there is also physical effort that must be made so we should not completely rule out physical effort. There are physical practices to help with the Work within (phenomenally speaking) on ourselves. Looking at things realistically {8-)
->> Everything is Love in Motion, no need to leave effort out {8-) ->>Everything is a Flow or Dance whether it be effort or non-effort The Dance ->>Goes On...... and On..... and On..... so, let's Dance {8-) Or is that too ->>much of an effort {8-> -> ->ha ha, did we ever stop ?
Not really, when the Dancer IS the Dance {8-)
->>->Good morning........... ->>->Shar ->> ->> It IS a good morning, and the top of it to you for stopping into this ->>little Oasis and saying so {8-) -> ->I am just amazed that no one has anything to say ->or share. You must be keeping them all busy with nose to the grindstone. ->When's coffee break? -> ->Shar
Indeed it seems that we have more listeners here than partakers, but hopefully others will stop in once the weekend flurries subside {8-) The mountains do make a pleasant setting for Dharma Talks {8-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: (Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:25:19 -0800
> > > If there is only one thing, how big is it? > > > >I KNOW the answer to that riddle! > >It is as small as small can get AND as BIG as big can get! > >I have Seen it and this is the Truth. It cannot be confined > >to a size. It is the Dot. And it grows and diminishes as > >needed. > >:) > >Nothin' like firsthand experience! :)) > >Love, rhonda > > Ah so ! Rhonda Rhonda. > Good to see you about. > I am in between chores so am making this short, > > What is a dot?
If you take a piece of plain white computer paper and a sharply pointed pencil and "Dot" the paper with it.... THAT IS THE DOT. it is nothing and yet on that piece of paper it IS everything.
> lol > Shar
....and a hearty smile to you, too ha!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:16:54 -0800
> > >> >>"The question is not what you look at, >> but what you see." -- Henry David Thoreau > >Only believe half of what you see, >and nothing that you hear. >Belief is for the death and the blind. >Here is a small riddle I heard one day. > >If there is only one thing, how big is it?
We can say 'all is one', figuratively yet not literally, but there are more 'things' than 'one thing'. Appearances, things, there are millions of them. Beyond the appearances there is no-thing. So how big is no-thing? Perhaps even bigger than 'one thing' :) All really just 'is' and has no thingness to it, people go around thinging things :) This thing and that thing, I think they are too thingy. If there was only 'one thing' how could they thing everything? I think the whole 'one thing' notion is too confusing. No-thing is simpler :)
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:41:32 -0800
> > > What is a dot? > > > > If you take a piece of plain white computer paper and > >a sharply pointed pencil and "Dot" the paper with it.... > >THAT IS THE DOT. > >it is nothing and yet on that piece of paper it IS everything. > >....and a hearty smile to you, too ha! > > LOL, you missed the whole question, > > The question is, if there is only one thing, how big is it? > > With your interpretation, there has to be at least four things, not one. > One to draw the dot, the pencil, the paper and the dot itself. > So, with this in mind, what size is it? > Can I laugh now? >
HAhaha!! I totally forgot that i was talking with the Queen of Koans. Yes, mighty one, you may have a Roaring Good Laugh now....but... who will be there to Hear it ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:28:32 -0800
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:27:33 -0800, you wrote:
->On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 04:25:13 -0800, you wrote: -> ->Greetings Everybody :) -> ->->>"The question is not what you look at, ->->> but what you see." -- Henry David Thoreau ->-> ->->Only believe half of what you see, ->->and nothing that you hear. ->->Belief is for the death and the blind. ->->Here is a small riddle I heard one day. ->-> ->->If there is only one thing, how big is it?
Perhaps I shouldn't be short :) Like the statement 'there is only One', because that is what I assume you refer to Shar, which has been said could be misleading because if there is One there must be something else, other than One. One has limitations, what is outside One? So instead there has been said 'there is not two' which leaves us kind of hanging in the air :)
So... how big is not two, is it the same size as one, or is it without size, how big is no size?
........Anna?
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "R. Edge" <redgender@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:16:40 -0500
>Hi Rhonda and Shar, > >>> >"The question is not what you look at, >>> > but what you see." -- Henry David Thoreau > >I see this quote going more in depth in knowing the reality as it is in the >moment. And not limiting one to what you only look only at the surface. >Pointing towards inner awareness. That doesn't mean the appearances are >always deceptive. > >Comments? > >Regards.....Ram
I agree Ram, Thoreau was quite the philosopher in that regard. What you see may not be what you get because 10 people looking at the same thing can get 10 different things from it.
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Clide Stillwater <tidestillwater@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:09:11 -0800 (PST)
>Re: About the quote.... Another Quote.... >From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net> >Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:28:32 -0800 > >On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:27:33 -0800, you wrote: > >->On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 04:25:13 -0800, you wrote: >-> >->Greetings Everybody :) >-> >->->>"The question is not what you look at, >->->> but what you see." -- Henry David Thoreau >->-> >->->Only believe half of what you see, >->->and nothing that you hear. >->->Belief is for the death and the blind. >->->Here is a small riddle I heard one day. >->-> >->->If there is only one thing, how big is it? > >Perhaps I shouldn't be short :) Like the statement 'there is only One', >because that is what I assume you refer to Shar, which has been said could >be misleading because if there is One there must be something else, other >than One. One has limitations, what is outside One? So instead there has >been said 'there is not two' which leaves us kind of hanging in the air :) > >So... how big is not two, is it the same size as one, or is it without >size, how big is no size? > >........Anna? HaHaHa, ain't that the truth. You girls sure can talk around circles. Circle around this one and see what you come up with: "Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble." - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:29:45 -0800
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:09:11 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
-> HaHaHa, ain't that the truth. You girls sure can talk around circles. Circle around this one and see what you come up with: -> "Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a form. -> That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble." -> - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
Greetings Clide :)
Well, that Clide stirred up some water over here, and for that I am thankful :)
It lead me to a whole lot of thinking, about identifying with the form, identifying with things, the physical realm, that the world puts so much worth in the form. But what also came to mind is what has been said that 'we are the form but not only the form', there is more to us than the form, but we seem to be afraid to tread uncharted paths, we do not go there, we do not go where the path ends, we stop there and go back. So many things about how we look upon life are so uncertain yet we take them for a given truth. That is scary to me, because it means that we do not think for ourselves, we even kill for things we do not know anything about *shakes head*. We are conditioned not to think for ourselves, which indeed makes us automatons. Back to the body...we identify with the body but we do also identify with a 'personal self' dwelling in this body, which is dualistic in itself, a self inside the body. Yet another "truth". So an open questioning becomes more and more something we have to do, a questioning of everything actually. Because can we really know what is what, can we really trust anything. What we "know", is it really something we know, something we have found out to be fact ourselves, or is it just a "truth" that we have accepted but never questioned, and never experienced. Never close your mind, never lock the mind in some "truth" or some 'personal view point, or some personal interpretation. With all this talk to say that all is not what it seems, all is not what we believe it to be, that we harbor a lot of beliefs, ideas and notions which perhaps aren't true at all. Next step, so who and what are we then Really. I guess this is where the journey begins, the journey of waking-up from the beliefs and ideas and the notions. Through self-inquiry, an open questioning, through silence the mind, so as to go where we have never been before, or at least it is completely forgotten.
//Anna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 00:15:17 -0500
Anna: It lead me to a whole lot of thinking, about identifying with the form, > identifying with things, the physical realm, that the world puts so much > worth in the form. But what also came to mind is what has been said that > 'we are the form but not only the form', there is more to us than the > form, > but we seem to be afraid to tread uncharted paths, we do not go there, we > do not go where the path ends, we stop there and go back. So many things > about how we look upon life are so uncertain yet we take them for a given > truth. That is scary to me, because it means that we do not think for > ourselves, we even kill for things we do not know anything about *shakes > head*. We are conditioned not to think for ourselves, which indeed makes > us > automatons. > Back to the body...we identify with the body but we do also identify with > a > 'personal self' dwelling in this body, which is dualistic in itself, a > self > inside the body. Yet another "truth". So an open questioning becomes more > and more something we have to do, a questioning of everything actually. > Because can we really know what is what, can we really trust anything. > What > we "know", is it really something we know, something we have found out to > be fact ourselves, or is it just a "truth" that we have accepted but never > questioned, and never experienced. Never close your mind, never lock the > mind in some "truth" or some 'personal view point, or some personal > interpretation. With all this talk to say that all is not what it seems, > all is not what we believe it to be, that we harbor a lot of beliefs, > ideas > and notions which perhaps aren't true at all. > Next step, so who and what are we then Really. I guess this is where the > journey begins, the journey of waking-up from the beliefs and ideas and > the > notions. Through self-inquiry, an open questioning, through silence the > mind, so as to go where we have never been before, or at least it is > completely forgotten.
Ram: Great surfing. Now is the time to feel the Witness that which is aware of my I, we, it, body and mind in this moment and all other moments.
Regards......Ram
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:21:26 -0800
>Hi Rhonda and Shar, >>> >"The question is not what you look at, >>> > but what you see." -- Henry David Thoreau > >I see this quote going more in depth in knowing the reality as it is in >the moment. And not limiting one to what you only look only at the >surface. Pointing towards inner awareness. That doesn't mean the >appearances are always deceptive. >Comments? >Regards.....Ram
Good morning Ram, I dunno,
I think the quote is pointing to not being judge and jury of what you think see. And not to jump to any conclusions of what you think you see. Appearances are deceptive. Appearances are formed by anothers sense of perspective and reality. Then translated by our own.
Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:32:28 -0800
> >S:> > >If there is only one thing, how big is it? > >Ma: We can say 'all is one', figuratively yet not literally, but there are >more >'things' than 'one thing'. Appearances, things, there are millions of them. >Beyond the appearances there is no-thing.
S: HI Ma, nice to hear you, you have been pretty quiet. I am thrown in that direction with the question as well. Taking the one thing, as being the no-thing.
>So how big is no-thing? Perhaps >even bigger than 'one thing' :)
S: ha. I still saw the 'one thing' as the no-thing. And fathom anything being bigger than no-thing, or smaller.
>All really just 'is' and has no thingness >to it, people go around thinging things :)
S: ha ha, Totally. And the fun part is knowing when you are doing it.
>This thing and that thing, I >think they are too thingy.
S: ha ha, for many life is based on thingy's. The more thingy's they collect the better. I'll show you my thingy's if you show me yours......lol
> If there was only 'one thing' how could they >thing everything? I think the whole 'one thing' notion is too confusing. >No-thing is simpler :)
S: No-thing is easier, but not for all. No-thing scares them. They feel that if they were no-thing, they would be nothing. Can't seem to wrap their head around the idea that no-thing is everything.
Oh well, all in the days work for superman and the fantastic four.
Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:35:17 -0800
>I agree Ram, Thoreau was quite the philosopher in that regard. What you >see may not be what you get because 10 people looking at the same thing >can get 10 different things from it.
Hello R.Edge
I know, I know, you are talking about the story about the men in the little house, each one looking out their own window at an elephant. LOL
Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:57:14 -0800
> >->->If there is only one thing, how big is it? > >Perhaps I shouldn't be short :) Like the statement 'there is only One', >because that is what I assume you refer to Shar, which has been said could >be misleading because if there is One there must be something else, other >than One. One has limitations, what is outside One? So instead there has >been said 'there is not two' which leaves us kind of hanging in the air :)
Good morning Anna. S: Hanging in mid air is good. All it means is that we are open to what comes along, with no solid conclusions to confuse the moment. And while you are hanging around, feel free to pick and eat whatever strawberry you see beside you. lol
>So... how big is not two, is it the same size as one, or is it without >size, how big is no size? >........Anna?
It can be fun to wrap your head around some riddle for awhile. Just to see where it takes you. As a turn about, ask yourself this question, quiet the mind for just a moment, and see pops into the brain about it. Just accept the first thing that pops in without changing it. What did it say?
Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:59:21 -0800
> > > Can I laugh now? > > HAhaha!! I totally forgot that i was talking with the Queen of Koans. >Yes, mighty one, you may have a Roaring Good Laugh now....but... >who will be there to Hear it ?
Yo Rhonda,
You heard it didn't you? I know you did.
Shar lol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 04:03:04 -0800
>HaHaHa, ain't that the truth. You girls sure can talk around circles. >Circle around this one and see what you come up with: >"Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a form. >That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble." > - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
Circle people, oh my goodness. lol
I came up with four words to describe your quote,
Not this -not this.
Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Clide Stillwater <tidestillwater@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:48:27 -0800 (PST)
--- Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org> wrote:
> > >HaHaHa, ain't that the truth. You girls sure can > talk around circles. > >Circle around this one and see what you come up > with: > >"Till now you seriously considered yourself to be > the body and to have a form. > >That is the primal ignorance which is the root > cause of all trouble." > > - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950) > > Circle people, oh my goodness. lol > > I came up with four words to describe your quote, > > Not this -not this. > > Shar
No circling this time, straight on. Yes we ain't nothin really, just a bundle of stress and fear about what we ain't. When we accept we ain't somethin, that we are just simple folk tryin to get along, we can enjoy a little peace of mind and be at peace with others. Then we can just be that peace and let others be that peace too. I'm glad to say I'm nothin, "not this - not this". Ain't that somethin :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:57:17 -0800
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:57:14 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->> ->>->->If there is only one thing, how big is it? ->> ->>Perhaps I shouldn't be short :) Like the statement 'there is only One', ->>because that is what I assume you refer to Shar, which has been said could ->>be misleading because if there is One there must be something else, other ->>than One. One has limitations, what is outside One? So instead there has ->>been said 'there is not two' which leaves us kind of hanging in the air :) -> ->Good morning Anna. ->S: Hanging in mid air is good. ->All it means is that we are open to what comes along, ->with no solid conclusions ->to confuse the moment. And while you are hanging around, ->feel free to pick and eat whatever strawberry you see beside you. lol
I am open for any strawberries, ice cream and champagne that comes along, for sure, that will make my breakfast :)
->>So... how big is not two, is it the same size as one, or is it without ->>size, how big is no size? ->>........Anna? -> ->It can be fun to wrap your head around some riddle for awhile. ->Just to see where it takes you. ->As a turn about, ask yourself this question, quiet the mind for just a moment, ->and see pops into the brain about it. Just accept the first thing that pops in ->without changing it. What did it say?
Ahh...it said hello, good morning how are we doing today...where are those strawberries!!!
What does it say to you, and do not cheat. lol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:57:51 -0800
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:59:21 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->> ->> > Can I laugh now? ->> ->> HAhaha!! I totally forgot that i was talking with the Queen of Koans. ->>Yes, mighty one, you may have a Roaring Good Laugh now....but... ->>who will be there to Hear it ? -> ->Yo Rhonda, -> ->You heard it didn't you? ->I know you did.
I believe I heard it, it was echoeing in here :))
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:10:19 -0800
>>S:> >> >If there is only one thing, how big is it? >> >>Ma: We can say 'all is one', figuratively yet not >>literally, but there are >>more >>'things' than 'one thing'. Appearances, things, there are >>millions of them. >>Beyond the appearances there is no-thing. > >S: HI Ma, nice to hear you, you have been pretty quiet. >I am thrown in that direction with the question as well. >Taking the one thing, as being the no-thing.
Say what you mean and mean what you say then. How do you expect to be understood when you say one thing and mean another? You are starting to sound like a politician, saying one thing and meaning another.
>>So how big is no-thing? Perhaps >>even bigger than 'one thing' :) > >S: ha. I still saw the 'one thing' as the no-thing. >And fathom anything being bigger than no-thing, or smaller.
How full is a full glass of water?
>>All really just 'is' and has no thingness >>to it, people go around thinging things :) > >S: ha ha, Totally. >And the fun part is knowing when you are doing it.
Does anyone really know what they are doing?
>>This thing and that thing, I >>think they are too thingy. > >S: ha ha, for many life is based on thingy's. >The more thingy's they collect the better.
Sadly.
>I'll show you my thingy's if you show me yours......lol
Hmmmm
>> If there was only 'one thing' how could they >>thing everything? I think the whole 'one thing' notion is >>too confusing. >>No-thing is simpler :) > >S: No-thing is easier, but not for all. >No-thing scares them. >They feel that if they were no-thing, >they would be nothing. >Can't seem to wrap their head around the idea that no-thing >is everything.
That is the thing about no-thing, you can not wrap your head around it because it's not a mind thing. Indeed scary to be mind-less because that is what no-thing takes. Mind sees thing, no-mind sees no-thing. Simple really. No need to fear whatever is not. Like fearing the unknown, which is an oxymoron. People fear what they think they know and not really what they don't know. Once they know it maybe they can fear it but not before they know it. They fear the boogieman in the dark because they don't know whether there is a boogieman there or not. What if there is? What if there isn't? How silly. Go and see if there is something to fear or not. Then you will know whether to be fearful or not.
>Oh well, >all in the days work for superman and the fantastic four.
And a day's 'play' for us not so 'super' or 'fantastic' :)
>Shar
Namaste, Ma
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:34:21 -0800
>> >>S: HI Ma, nice to hear you, you have been pretty quiet. >>I am thrown in that direction with the question as well. >>Taking the one thing, as being the no-thing. > >Say what you mean and mean what you say then. >How do you expect to be understood when you say one thing and mean another? >You are starting to sound like a politician, saying one thing and meaning >another.
Pardon me?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:53:58 -0800
>> >>S: HI Ma, nice to hear you, you have been pretty quiet. >>I am thrown in that direction with the question as well. >>Taking the one thing, as being the no-thing. > >Say what you mean and mean what you say then. >How do you expect to be understood when you say one thing >and mean another? >You are starting to sound like a politician, saying one >thing and meaning >another.
>Pardon me?
Eastern humor :) I'm just a simple guy :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:09:49 -0800
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 00:15:17 -0500, you wrote:
-> Anna: It lead me to a whole lot of thinking, about identifying with the ->form, ->> identifying with things, the physical realm, that the world puts so much ->> worth in the form. But what also came to mind is what has been said that ->> 'we are the form but not only the form', there is more to us than the ->> form, ->> but we seem to be afraid to tread uncharted paths, we do not go there, we ->> do not go where the path ends, we stop there and go back. So many things ->> about how we look upon life are so uncertain yet we take them for a given ->> truth. That is scary to me, because it means that we do not think for ->> ourselves, we even kill for things we do not know anything about *shakes ->> head*. We are conditioned not to think for ourselves, which indeed makes ->> us ->> automatons. ->> Back to the body...we identify with the body but we do also identify with ->> a ->> 'personal self' dwelling in this body, which is dualistic in itself, a ->> self ->> inside the body. Yet another "truth". So an open questioning becomes more ->> and more something we have to do, a questioning of everything actually. ->> Because can we really know what is what, can we really trust anything. ->> What ->> we "know", is it really something we know, something we have found out to ->> be fact ourselves, or is it just a "truth" that we have accepted but never ->> questioned, and never experienced. Never close your mind, never lock the ->> mind in some "truth" or some 'personal view point, or some personal ->> interpretation. With all this talk to say that all is not what it seems, ->> all is not what we believe it to be, that we harbor a lot of beliefs, ->> ideas ->> and notions which perhaps aren't true at all. ->> Next step, so who and what are we then Really. I guess this is where the ->> journey begins, the journey of waking-up from the beliefs and ideas and ->> the ->> notions. Through self-inquiry, an open questioning, through silence the ->> mind, so as to go where we have never been before, or at least it is ->> completely forgotten. -> ->Ram: Great surfing. Now is the time to feel the Witness that which is aware ->of my I, we, it, body and mind in this moment and all other moments.
Yes, it takes a lot of determination to stay on the straight and narrow, to be the witness, not to cling to all that content of the mind, but that is what we will have to do if we want to find who we Are. Being the Witness means peace, no stress, unmoved by the chaos of the world, and never reacting on anything which is that peace, that state of no stress, not really a participant in the world but an observer. Strange, another one of those things that we never question, the roller coaster of reactions, emotions, stress, worry etc., that we never seem to think 'should it really be like this'. Another one of those things that we seem to just have accepted and never think about.
->Regards......Ram
Anna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote.... From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:51:33 -0800
>> >>You are starting to sound like a politician, saying one thing and meaning >>another. > >>Pardon me? > >Eastern humor :) I'm just a simple guy :)
Eastern humor? Not to familiar with it. Does it bite, or just lick you to death?
Ah so, simplicity. I am also just a simple woman. Verging on simpleton.
It appears that I have been reconnected with an old friend that experienced a NDE, and was shocked back to life twice. Any information to offer on this sort of thing? Is there such a thing as walk ins? Or reawakenings from this experience? And what exactly happens when this occurs?
What is it that induces changes in those who have had this experience? I read the book offered on this site, about it, and yet find the information leaving holes in my understanding.
Thanks Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:40:58 -0800
>>> >>>You are starting to sound like a politician, saying one >>>thing and meaning >>>another. >> >>>Pardon me? >> >>Eastern humor :) I'm just a simple guy :) > >Eastern humor? >Not to familiar with it. >Does it bite, or just lick you to death?
Brings to mind the Taj Mahal :)
>Ah so, simplicity. >I am also just a simple woman. >Verging on simpleton.
"Simple ton", is that different than a regular ton?
>It appears that I have been reconnected with an old friend >that experienced a NDE, and was shocked back to life twice. >Any information to offer on this sort of thing? >Is there such a thing as walk ins? >Or reawakenings from this experience? >And what exactly happens when this occurs? >What is it that induces changes in those who have >had this experience?
Near death is just that, not quite but almost dead. Everyone dying goes through that before they die. The brain still functions so mind is still active too, by what some have called 'life force'. It is the driving force of all manifestation whether mineral or vegetable or animal or human. When the form's animation is reduced for some reason the life force of that form starts pulling away from the form to return to a sort of reservoir of life force so the form can also return to its basic elements. When the form's animation is stimulated by some mechanical means then the life force of that form lingers to see if further animation is suitable for the form. If not suitable for the form then any mechanical means will not permanently restore animation to the form. If the form is still suitable for continued animation then the life force lingers and continues animating the form. Such suitability is in line with the life force accumulated experience while animating that form. The life force of a form is very much tied to what some have called 'true nature' and even 'true self' or 'higher self', which is all tied to how and to what degree all of this has evolved physically and spiritually. If the form is reanimated it usually causes changes in the person, generally along the lines of whatever belief system that person is attached to. Now when the suitability is not advantageous and everything returns to its natural state it is possible that there is life force that is prepared to animate that form. If the suitability of the same form to different 'true nature' and even 'true self' or 'higher self' is advantageous then the person could revive as sort of a different person. And in a real sense they are a different person because the frequency of the new life force is different. Some call this a 'walk in'. Not a simple matter really but that is an overall.
>I read the book offered on this site, >about it, and yet find the information >leaving holes in my understanding.
It is an unknown for most so naturally it is hard to fathom. That is why it is feared. It does let one know what the Buddha said about everything being impermanent, so we shouldn't cling to anything. Nothing to fear really, just a day in a life whether you take a vacation for a minute and return or stay gone. There is no discomfort to the form either way.
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