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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ 2006 - March ~
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 05:32:51 -0800
Good morning Ma,
>>Does it bite, or just lick you to death? >Brings to mind the Taj Mahal :)
Ha ha, Thanks. It would be nice to take a trip to India. As a tourist, not a seeker. :) My first choice to visit is still Machu Pichu. Must be the call of the pan flute or something. :)
>>Verging on simpleton. >"Simple ton", is that different than a regular ton?
Oh yes. Only I haven't been discovered yet. But wait, fame will come. A legend in my own mind. :)
>>It appears that I have been reconnected with an old friend >>that experienced a NDE, and was shocked back to life twice. > >Near death is just that, not quite but almost dead. >When the form's animation is reduced for some reason >the life force of that form starts pulling away from the form >to return to a sort of reservoir of life force so the form can also >return to its basic elements.
Yes, I can understand this part of the death process, and am sort of familiar with the steps leading to death. If one can call three some experience. :) Although it wasn't really an easy time, I was separated enough to still be fascinated by it all. And tried my best to be actively connected to the process as much as one can be. Aware of daily, then hourly changes that took place. You know when the life force leaves, the energy of the room changes. A sense of peace enters the room, and expands to fill and surround all those within the room. I have never felt such love before, other than being in a meditative state. And although you are aware of it meditation, this was different. It was like being a witness and a part of it, all at the same time. Here she goes off rambling again. Focus Shar, focus. lol
>When the form's animation is stimulated >by some mechanical means then the life force of that form lingers >to see if further animation is suitable for the form. If not suitable >for the form then any mechanical means will not permanently >restore animation to the form. If the form is still suitable for continued >animation then the life force lingers and continues animating the form.
Okay, this is understood, and in line with Raymond Moody's material and a few other serious researchers I have read.
>Such suitability is in line with the life force accumulated experience >while animating that form. The life force of a form is very much >tied to what some have called 'true nature' and even 'true self' >or 'higher self', which is all tied to how and to what degree >all of this has evolved physically and spiritually.
Could you or would you elaborate a bit more on this above paragraph? I find this area interesting and would like to learn more about that. Are you saying that the true nature has a choice? And are you saying that if one is learning what they are suppose to, they can continue or not?
>If the form is >reanimated it usually causes changes in the person, generally >along the lines of whatever belief system that person is attached >to.
Well, so far, all I have heard about this belief from him, is that he knows there is a higher source beyond himself. Before this, there was never much thought in that direction.
>Now when the suitability is not advantageous and everything returns >to its natural state it is possible that there is life force that is >prepared to animate that form. If the suitability of the same form to >different 'true nature' and even 'true self' or 'higher self' is >advantageous then the person could revive as sort of a different person. >And in a real sense they are a different person because the frequency >of the new life force is different. Some call this a 'walk in'. >Not a simple matter really but that is an overall.
Ah so! I have always been fascinated by this theory. And it is the one area of study, I always wished I could learn more about.
I have now actually met three men friends now that have all had this experience. Each one has taught me something. But there are still holes for me. I know, never satisfied. :) But do consider myself blessed to know or to have known three. One moved away, one died for real three years ago, and the other was always known to me, as a distant friend. but for some reason, we have reconnected since his accident happened. And have for some reason, have become closer friends. Somewhat interestingly enough, to reconnect within an instant of this re-meeting. Like all of a sudden we could connect in ways beyond our knowledge. I dunno. Hard to describe. And as usual, the usual suspect questions about our friendship. What the hell do others know anyway? lol And how to explain it? ha, forget about it.
And to be honest, for some reason unbeknownst to me, this has always been my area of interest, beyond any other. I devoured every book I could find on this topic. Good ones and bad ones. Then I donated all death related books to the local hospice. My body and mind seems to be searching in this direction all its own life. Its an inner drive that has never been totally full filled. And maybe never will.
>It is an unknown for most so naturally it is hard to fathom. >That is why it is feared. It does let one know what the Buddha >said about everything being impermanent, so we shouldn't cling >to anything. Nothing to fear really, just a day in a life whether >you take a vacation for a minute and return or stay gone. There is >no discomfort to the form either way.
Its a funny thing. I had a recurring dream for many years, about being in an accident with a white truck. I thought each time I had this dream, it meant sure death if and when it happened. Then on New Years Day, this dream become a reality. Both the rescue and the RCMP, said that if we had been in any other vehicle, we would have been killed. They did write the car off when the repairs exceeded $20 thousand. We were in my son in laws BMW, and were told that they are considered by average, one of the safest cars on the road in any accident. We got T-boned by a white truck coming up the off the freeway off ramp. And I sat and watched it hit us. Talk about feeling totally useless. All you can do, is watch and wait for the result of it all. I realize now, there was a point through it all, knowing it can't be avoided. that there was no fear and absolutely no emotion through it at all. It was just what was happening within that moment. And yet, that thought, wasn't present at that time, that remembrance came so much later. Like weeks, along with the awe of the experience. I don't think that dream will return. lol
Anyway, enough of a ramble for this morning. Got to get ready to go painting again this am.
Thanks Ma. Sharlene
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:40:10 -0800
>Good morning Ma,
Good evening Sharlene,
>>>Does it bite, or just lick you to death? >>Brings to mind the Taj Mahal :) > >Ha ha, Thanks. >It would be nice to take a trip to India. >As a tourist, not a seeker. :) >My first choice to visit is still Machu Pichu.
Yes the Peruvian history is a fascinating one but have not been there.
>Must be the call of the pan flute or something. :)
Or something :)
>>>Verging on simpleton. >>"Simple ton", is that different than a regular ton? > >Oh yes. Only I haven't been discovered yet. >But wait, fame will come. >A legend in my own mind. :) > >>>It appears that I have been reconnected with an old >>>friend >>>that experienced a NDE, and was shocked back to life >>>twice. >> >>Near death is just that, not quite but almost dead. >>When the form's animation is reduced for some reason >>the life force of that form starts pulling away from the >>form >>to return to a sort of reservoir of life force so the form >>can also >>return to its basic elements. > >Yes, I can understand this part of the death process, and >am sort >of familiar with the steps leading to death. >If one can call three some experience. :) >Although it wasn't really an easy time,
All we can do is help them accept and be comfortable with it.
>I was separated enough to still be fascinated by it all. >And tried my best to be actively connected to the process >as much as one can be. Aware of daily, then hourly changes >that took place. You know when the life force leaves, the >energy >of the room changes. A sense of peace enters the room, >and expands to fill and surround all those within the room.
Yes.
>I have never felt such love before, other than being >in a meditative state. And although you are aware of it >meditation, this was different. It was like being a witness >and a part of it, all at the same time.
Yes.
>Here she goes off rambling again. >Focus Shar, focus. lol
:)
>>When the form's animation is stimulated >>by some mechanical means then the life force of that form >>lingers >>to see if further animation is suitable for the form. If >>not suitable >>for the form then any mechanical means will not >>permanently >>restore animation to the form. If the form is still >>suitable for continued >>animation then the life force lingers and continues >>animating the form. > >Okay, this is understood, and in line with Raymond Moody's >material >and a few other serious researchers I have read. > >>Such suitability is in line with the life force >>accumulated experience >>while animating that form. The life force of a form is >>very much >>tied to what some have called 'true nature' and even 'true >>self' >>or 'higher self', which is all tied to how and to what >>degree >>all of this has evolved physically and spiritually. > >Could you or would you elaborate >a bit more on this above paragraph? >I find this area interesting and would >like to learn more about that. Are you >saying that the true nature has a choice? >And are you saying that if one is learning >what they are suppose to, they can continue >or not?
Not really a choice in the matter. Just drawn where best fits really. But far far from choice. There are only choices where mind is concerned, otherwise things are just done because they need done. Life force works that way too. The mind distorts things. So reanimating or initially animating some form is up to whether it needs done and needs done by any give life force. Or not at all. Whether it be a new form or used form or unneeded form (still birth type thing).
>>If the form is >>reanimated it usually causes changes in the person, >>generally >>along the lines of whatever belief system that person is >>attached >>to. > >Well, so far, all I have heard about this belief from him, >is that he knows there is a higher source beyond himself. >Before this, there was never much thought in that >direction.
It does sort of take the arrogance out of one :) But still a believed 'higher source'.
>>Now when the suitability is not advantageous and >>everything returns >>to its natural state it is possible that there is life >>force that is >>prepared to animate that form. If the suitability of the >>same form to >>different 'true nature' and even 'true self' or 'higher >>self' is >>advantageous then the person could revive as sort of a >>different person. >>And in a real sense they are a different person because >>the frequency >>of the new life force is different. Some call this a 'walk >>in'. >>Not a simple matter really but that is an overall. > >Ah so! I have always been fascinated by this theory. >And it is the one area of study, I always wished I could >learn more about.
A theory is only a theory until you have experienced it yourself. Then it is no longer a theory. Then it is fact. Until you can pierce the veil of the unknown you can study it until you can no longer study and you will not know much more than before you started studying. Work on piercing the veil of the unknown and it will make your study more fruitful.
>I have now actually met three men friends now that > have all had this experience. Each one has taught me > something. >But there are still holes for me. I know, never satisfied. >:) >But do consider myself blessed to know or to have known >three. >One moved away, one died for real three years ago, >and the other was always known to me, as a distant friend. >but for some reason, >we have reconnected since his accident happened. >And have for some reason, have become closer friends.
Perhaps your interest in his experience.
>Somewhat interestingly enough, to reconnect within an >instant >of this re-meeting. Like all of a sudden we could >connect in ways beyond our knowledge. >I dunno. Hard to describe.
Perhaps the change made him more receptive or you more receptive.
>And as usual, the usual suspect questions about our >friendship. >What the hell do others know anyway? lol >And how to explain it? ha, forget about it.
One can avoid it but one can never forget. Just sometimes one does not remember.
>And to be honest, for some reason unbeknownst to me, >this has always been my area of interest, beyond any other.
Death is indeed fascinating. It is easier not to fear something you know about. But knowing about it and knowing it is 180 degrees apart. Piercing the veil of the unknown is your key.
>I devoured every book I could find on this topic. >Good ones and bad ones. >Then I donated all death related books to the local >hospice. >My body and mind seems to be searching in this direction >all its own life. Its an inner drive that has never been >totally full filled. >And maybe never will.
It is good that you stalk death rather than it stalk you :)
>>It is an unknown for most so naturally it is hard to >>fathom. >>That is why it is feared. It does let one know what the >>Buddha >>said about everything being impermanent, so we shouldn't >>cling >>to anything. Nothing to fear really, just a day in a life >>whether >>you take a vacation for a minute and return or stay gone. >>There is >>no discomfort to the form either way. > >Its a funny thing. I had a recurring dream for many years, >about being in an accident with a white truck. I thought >each time >I had this dream, it meant sure death if and when it >happened. >Then on New Years Day, this dream become a reality. >Both the rescue and the RCMP, said that if we had >been in any other vehicle, >we would have been killed.
Interesting.
>They did write the car off when the repairs exceeded $20 >thousand. >We were in my son in laws BMW, and were told that they are >considered >by average, one of the safest cars on the road in any >accident. >We got T-boned by a white truck coming up the off the >freeway off ramp. >And I sat and watched it hit us. Talk about feeling totally >useless. >All you can do, is watch and wait for the result of it all. >I realize now, there was a point through it all, knowing it >can't be avoided. >that there was no fear and absolutely no emotion through it >at all. >It was just what was happening within that moment. And yet, >that thought, >wasn't present at that time, that remembrance came so much >later. >Like weeks, along with the awe of the experience. >I don't think that dream will return. lol
Perhaps not :)
>Anyway, enough of a ramble for this morning. >Got to get ready to go painting again this am. >Thanks Ma. >Sharlene
Thank you for sharing all this Sharlene.
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Subject: About Effort
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:43:13 -0800
Shar, and everyone else...
I came across this story about Effort, that I think well portrays Effort, as in correct effort, there is effort and then there is correct effort. I'll share it here with you. Hope you'll find it useful.
he told of this story, a woman who had all her life repeated the name of the Buddha. Thinking she would be re-born in the Western Paradise or something like that. When she died and arrived at St. Peters' gate, she was sure she would get her fine re-birth, after all, she had chanted the name of the Buddha all her life. St. Peter (forgot the Buddhist equivalent name) looked through the documents.... "....No, I really don't see anything in here that would make you eligible for a higher birth.... no, there doesn't seem to be anything.... will have to set you back on a mediocre birth hoping you'll get in a better direction this time." The woman, astounded: "what do you mean? I chanted the Buddha's name all my life!" St. Peter: "oh, here, one insight here, just one occasion that will suffice to get you a bit better round." The woman: "Really? What could this be.... please tell me of this occasion in my life?" St. Peter: "You were 15 years old, walking home from a friend's house. It is dark outside, you are walking by the harbor, and the wind is picking up. You chant the Buddha's name, making your way home. You decide to take a short-cut and walk over a grave-yard. The wind is picking up even more and you repeat the Buddha's name with more fervor - in unison with the increasing beat and volume of the roaring winds. ...Now the winds are hailing down, roaring so loud... and there you go: amitabhaBuddha, amithaba buddha, amithaba Buddha, and as a great lighting thunder comes clashing down, you disappear. Yes, that'll do. Here is your ticket."
The repetition is not enough. One must put ones' heart into it. So there isn't enough room for the self. Just put all your energy into this great matter, this one question. It will go there naturally if you don't put it into the trivia of the mind. This basic urge to discover.... Put all of your heart into it.
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Subject: Re: About Effort
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 04:27:45 -0800
you wrote: >Shar, and everyone else...
Good morning Anna, I guess I'll be first in jumping in on this one. :) I always never look before leaping.
>I came across this story about Effort, that I think well portrays Effort, >as in correct effort, there is effort and then there is correct effort. >I'll share it here with you. Hope you'll find it useful.
I really don't think there is a difference between effort and correct effort. But I am being picky here when I say that. Doing the best we can do, at the moment, is our best effort. In this story, the woman did the best she could, with what she thought she knew. Probably she didn't have a drill Sergeant like EJ behind her telling her that it wasn't enough. LOL
But it wasn't wrong. In saying there is correct effort, there has to be an opposite. And I don't think this woman knew there was more to it, and therefore thought she gave all she could by chanting. I would have given her points for this. It's not easy being a novice.
>The repetition is not enough. One must put ones' heart into >it.
This is true. As it is with everything we do. Any effort put into anything, should be given full attention. From doing dishes, to chanting. Its all focus, awareness, and attention. I also think we sometimes put to much effort into spiritual matters, and forget to give laborious jobs the same attention. I guess for me, its more about attention than effort. It is through attention, that the effort becomes effortless, and more about focus.
It seems to me that effort requires a constant vigilance of the I am doing, rather then just the doing to the best of our ability within that moment.
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Subject: Re: About Effort
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 07:34:23 -0800
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 04:27:45 -0800, you wrote:
->you wrote: ->>Shar, and everyone else... -> ->Good morning Anna,
Good Morning Shar!
->I guess I'll be first in jumping in on this one. :)
Yeah :)
->I always never look before leaping.
That is a good trait on this Path :)
->>I came across this story about Effort, that I think well portrays Effort, ->>as in correct effort, there is effort and then there is correct effort. ->>I'll share it here with you. Hope you'll find it useful. -> ->I really don't think there is a difference between effort and correct effort. ->But I am being picky here when I say that. Doing the best we can do, at the ->moment, ->is our best effort. ->In this story, the woman did the best she could, with what she thought she ->knew.
Is the best we can do really the best that we can do or the best we think we can do? "The best I can do" has been said to be a cop out, based and limited on and by our conditionings.
->Probably she didn't have a drill Sergeant like EJ behind her telling her ->that it wasn't enough. LOL
No, Lucky souls to have that :)
->But it wasn't wrong. In saying there is correct effort, there has to be an ->opposite.
Well as I am speaking of it there is effort and then there is correct effort. You can give a lot of effort without it leading anywhere. You can practice meditation for years and never silence the mind. You are still giving effort, but not correct effort, not productive effort, because it didn't lead to where you wanted to go. Like the old saying goes "there is your way and then there is the right way", not a wrong way just your way and the right way. Correct effort doesn't have to be in the terms of dualism. Dualistically seeing it there is correct effort and incorrect effort, right and wrong, good and bad, so then 'personal self' can be placed within those parameters.
->And I don't think this woman knew there was more to it, ->and therefore thought she gave all she could by chanting.
Perhaps, she gave effort but not correct effort because it didn't take her to where she wanted to go. You can give a little effort, you can give some effort and you can give a lot of effort, it still might not take you where you want to go. There is a whole lot of effort, a whole lot of ways, and then there is Correct Effort and The Way... and that is where the drill sergeant comes in 8-)
->I would have given her points for this. It's not easy being a novice.
How many points is she getting for that? What is easy?
->>The repetition is not enough. One must put ones' heart into ->>it. -> ->This is true. As it is with everything we do. ->Any effort put into anything, should be given full attention. -> From doing dishes, to chanting. Its all focus, awareness, ->and attention.
True, whatever you are doing, should be given all of you. That was what the story was about.
->I also think we sometimes put to much effort into ->spiritual matters, and forget to give laborious jobs ->the same attention.
Yes that happens but as the old saying goes when chopping wood chop wood...
->I guess for me, its more about attention than effort. ->It is through attention, that the effort becomes effortless, ->and more about focus. ->It seems to me that effort requires a constant vigilance ->of the I am doing, rather then just the doing to the best of our ability ->within that moment. ->>So there isn't enough room for the self. ->> Just put all your energy into this great matter, this one ->>question. It will go there naturally if you don't put it into the trivia ->>of the mind. This basic urge to discover.... ->> Put all of your heart into it.
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Subject: Re: on NDE
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:48:18 -0800
> >I really, really enjoyed that discussion. Thank you both >for sharing! > >Love, rhonda
Hi Rhonda. Anything to add to it? Have you met anyone who has had this experience that you wouldn't mind sharing with us as well? Not names but perhaps experience?
Thanks and love to you Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:49:02 -0800
> >Good evening Sharlene,
Yes, it was thank you.
>>My first choice to visit is still Machu Pichu. > >Yes the Peruvian history is a fascinating one but have not been there.
My daughters neighbours are from there. And when I am down, am privy to listening to their music. They play live bands in the back yard. It's wonderful. When I get to know them better, I will ask more questions. Being nosy, that is.
>>Must be the call of the pan flute or something. :) >Or something :)
ha ha,
Are you >>saying that the true nature has a choice? >>And are you saying that if one is learning >>what they are suppose to, they can continue >>or not? > >Not really a choice in the matter. Just drawn where best fits really. But >far far from choice. There are only choices where mind is concerned, >otherwise things are just done because they need done. Life force works >that way too. The mind distorts things. So reanimating or initially >animating some form is up to whether it needs done and needs done by any >give life force. Or not at all. Whether it be a new form or used form or >unneeded form (still birth type thing).
Okay, I understand this. And to carry it one step farther. Each one of these three people talked about talking with another. It seems each one had a someone meet them to discuss things with. The conversations were about exactly that, continuation.
And after healing of the body, it seemed each one had to change their life. The partners they were with, no longer seemed to offer what they needed. Not that love disappeared, but realization that how they lived, was no longer the way to continue living. And each suffered and is now suffering with the what to do's about it. I seem to have inherited the role of confidant and advisor. But I think my ability to do that, is not up to par. So have been concentrating on asking questions and letting them come up with their own responses and answers. One of them separated, the one that died, that is. The other continued his relationship and haven't heard since. The recent one, is now going through the not enoughs right now. My only question at present, is , not enough what? The reply is not really clear. The usual things that men complain about, lol, but not sufficient enough to warrant other questions as yet. . Good thing, as I am not prepared to know what he next ones will be anyway. I guess it depends on the replies. So these are things I am inquiring about. Can anyone help me by examples of what needs to be asked? And how do I know who I am speaking to? Is it the old soul, or the new one taking over the body?
From what I understand, if it's a new one, they also go through a period of transformation and confusion. .
>It does sort of take the arrogance out of one :) But still a believed >'higher source'.
Trust me, there is a difference here. lol A from what is good for me, to a how can help others. A definite shift of focus. That was one of the first things I noticed. That and the non judgemental
>>>Now when the suitability is not advantageous and everything returns >>>to its natural state it is possible that there is life force that is >>>prepared to animate that form. If the suitability of the same form to >>>different 'true nature' and even 'true self' or 'higher self' is >>>advantageous then the person could revive as sort of a different person. >>>And in a real sense they are a different person because the frequency >>>of the new life force is different. Some call this a 'walk in'. >>>Not a simple matter really but that is an overall. >> >>Ah so! I have always been fascinated by this theory. >>And it is the one area of study, I always wished I could >>learn more about. > >A theory is only a theory until you have experienced it yourself. Then it >is no longer a theory. Then it is fact. Until you can pierce the veil of >the unknown you can study it until you can no longer study and you will >not know much more than before you started studying. Work on piercing the >veil of the unknown and it will make your study more fruitful. > >>I have now actually met three men friends now that >> have all had this experience. Each one has taught me something. >>But there are still holes for me. I know, never satisfied. :) >>But do consider myself blessed to know or to have known three. >>One moved away, one died for real three years ago, >>and the other was always known to me, as a distant friend. >>but for some reason, >>we have reconnected since his accident happened. >>And have for some reason, have become closer friends. > >Perhaps your interest in his experience. > >>Somewhat interestingly enough, to reconnect within an instant >>of this re-meeting. Like all of a sudden we could >>connect in ways beyond our knowledge. >>I dunno. Hard to describe. > >Perhaps the change made him more receptive or you more receptive. > >>And as usual, the usual suspect questions about our friendship. >>What the hell do others know anyway? lol >>And how to explain it? ha, forget about it. > >One can avoid it but one can never forget. Just sometimes one does not >remember. > >>And to be honest, for some reason unbeknownst to me, >>this has always been my area of interest, beyond any other. > >Death is indeed fascinating. It is easier not to fear something you know >about. But knowing about it and knowing it is 180 degrees apart. Piercing >the veil of the unknown is your key. > >>I devoured every book I could find on this topic. >>Good ones and bad ones. >>Then I donated all death related books to the local hospice. >>My body and mind seems to be searching in this direction >>all its own life. Its an inner drive that has never been totally full filled. >>And maybe never will. > >It is good that you stalk death rather than it stalk you :) > >>>It is an unknown for most so naturally it is hard to fathom. >>>That is why it is feared. It does let one know what the Buddha >>>said about everything being impermanent, so we shouldn't cling >>>to anything. Nothing to fear really, just a day in a life whether >>>you take a vacation for a minute and return or stay gone. There is >>>no discomfort to the form either way. >> >>Its a funny thing. I had a recurring dream for many years, >>about being in an accident with a white truck. I thought each time >>I had this dream, it meant sure death if and when it happened. >>Then on New Years Day, this dream become a reality. >>Both the rescue and the RCMP, said that if we had >>been in any other vehicle, >>we would have been killed. > >Interesting. > >>They did write the car off when the repairs exceeded $20 thousand. >>We were in my son in laws BMW, and were told that they are considered >>by average, one of the safest cars on the road in any accident. >>We got T-boned by a white truck coming up the off the freeway off ramp. >>And I sat and watched it hit us. Talk about feeling totally useless. >>All you can do, is watch and wait for the result of it all. >>I realize now, there was a point through it all, knowing it can't be avoided. >>that there was no fear and absolutely no emotion through it at all. >>It was just what was happening within that moment. And yet, that thought, >>wasn't present at that time, that remembrance came so much later. >>Like weeks, along with the awe of the experience. >>I don't think that dream will return. lol > >Perhaps not :) > >>Anyway, enough of a ramble for this morning. >>Got to get ready to go painting again this am. >>Thanks Ma. >>Sharlene
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Subject: on NDE
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:58:46 -0800
> >Anyway, enough of a ramble for this morning. > >Got to get ready to go painting again this am. > >Thanks Ma. > >Sharlene > > Thank you for sharing all this Sharlene.
I really, really enjoyed that discussion. Thank you both for sharing!
Love, rhonda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:27:54 -0800
Re: About the quote.... Another Quote.... >> >>Good evening Sharlene, > >Yes, it was thank you.
:)
>>>My first choice to visit is still Machu Pichu. >> >>Yes the Peruvian history is a fascinating one but have not >>been there. > >My daughters neighbours are from there. And when I am down, >am privy to >listening to their music. They play live bands in the back >yard. It's >wonderful. When I get to know them better, >I will ask more questions. Being nosy, that is.
:)
>>>Must be the call of the pan flute or something. :) >>Or something :) > >ha ha,
:)
>Are you >>>saying that the true nature has a choice? >>>And are you saying that if one is learning >>>what they are suppose to, they can continue >>>or not? >> >>Not really a choice in the matter. Just drawn where best >>fits really. But >>far far from choice. There are only choices where mind is >>concerned, >>otherwise things are just done because they need done. >>Life force works >>that way too. The mind distorts things. So reanimating or >>initially >>animating some form is up to whether it needs done and >>needs done by any >>give life force. Or not at all. Whether it be a new form >>or used form or >>unneeded form (still birth type thing). > >Okay, I understand this. And to carry it one step farther. >Each one of these three people talked about talking with >another. >It seems each one had a someone meet them to discuss things >with. >The conversations were about exactly that, continuation.
This is actually quite normal in those temporary times of non-animation of the form. Many times it is some religious figure like Jesus or even God. Talking things over with them as to whether they should leave or not. They are always talked into not leaving for the sake of others. These people they meet in the experience are really simply personifications of their own desires. So they are always talked into doing what they desire to do, not leave, by 'someone on the other side'.
>And after healing of the body, it seemed each one had to >change their life.
It is a rude awakening to be sure :)
>The partners they were with, no longer seemed to offer what >they needed.
The partners could not understand what such a rude awakening can do to the way one thinks and behaves. The partner or the one who has had the nde has to make adjustments for such things or the relationship will surely fall apart. When they both try to understand each other in this nde matter then the relationship works out nicely.
>Not that love disappeared, but realization that how they >lived, was no longer >the way to continue living. And each suffered and is now > suffering with the what to do's about it.
Tell them to work on understanding the experience and also understanding others who has not had the experience. To see the experience for what it is rather than what they think it is. They really have no idea of what they experienced. They call it nde because that is what everyone calls it, but they do not know what happened. When the form is not animated for a few second or minutes a lot of changes happen physiologically but they do not basically change. Due to the changes physically the way they see things will change a bit too. Which obviously can cause changes in the way they think and behave. But they are still the same person they were. They just need to understand it so they can 'live with it'. And so others can live with it too. You see, now they have to understand themselves all over again. They thought they understood themselves before the experience but realized due to the experience that they do not understand themselves. So they have to start at square one and understand themselves again.
>I seem to have inherited the role of confidant and advisor.
>From what I have seen here you are a good choice :)
>But I think my ability to do that, is not up to par.
Thus as a good advisor you keep digging for more information.
>So have been concentrating on asking questions and letting >them >come up with their own responses and answers.
A good start.
>One of them separated, the one that died, that is. >The other continued his relationship and haven't heard >since.
Perhaps he found a way to 'live with it' so it did not infringe on anyone else.
>The recent one, is now going through the not enoughs right >now. >My only question at present, is , not enough what?
Not enough understanding of the experience or himself.
>The reply is not really clear. The usual things that men >complain about, lol, >but not sufficient enough to warrant other questions as >yet. . >Good thing, as I am not prepared to know what he next ones >will be anyway. >I guess it depends on the replies. >So these are things I am inquiring about. >Can anyone help me by examples of what needs to be asked?
Standard really, in sorting out what is fact and what is fantasy about the experience and understanding himself now after the experience.
>And how do I know who I am speaking to?
He hasn't changed, you are talking to whoever is replying.
>Is it the old soul, or the new one taking over the body?
Same old soul :) Some things never change :) He doesn't have anything new, he just has to understand things.
> From what I understand, if it's a new one, they also go > through a period of >transformation and confusion. .
When they understand things there is no confusion.
>>It does sort of take the arrogance out of one :) But still >>a believed >>'higher source'. > >Trust me, there is a difference here. lol
The mind is a powerful instrument.
>A from what is good for me, to a how can help others. >A definite shift of focus. That was one of the first things >I noticed. >That and the non judgemental
I addressed this above. That does not make him different, it just makes him see things differently. Work with him to understand all this and to understand himself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:42:12 -0800
Greetings Ye Seekers of Truth and Understanding,
Life is to Directly Experience. By Directly Experiencing life AS it IS and AS we Truly ARE without the conditioned nonsense that we have to empty ourselves of, Awareness does Unfold. The Key is to Directly Experience life Purely as undefiled elements of life, instead of the automatons we have become. Do you remember in the Garden of Eden, there was only Utopia or Bliss or Peace or Contentment? And the Fall of man was not in eating the apple, but rather in thereafter desiring the apple that he ate. So life has become a struggle of emptying ourselves of false notions to get back to a point where we can continue to Unfold Awareness. The shame of it is that we immerse our young in the same stagnant sesspool that we are in. And so the beat goes no...........
Our concern should be what use are we to ourselves, for we can only Save the world by Saving ourselves. You should spend more time on worthwhile projects rather than contemplating your woeful state. For the woeful state is but a smoke screen by the Grand Trickster to keep your thinking muddled. For where the question is vital is when we question our conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions in general. That is, question the Grand Trickster's authority in controlling and manipulating us. WE give the Grand Trickster that authority so only WE can take it away, by letting go of the Grand Trickster's programming.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:40:36 -0800
> > > If there is only one thing, how big is it? > >I KNOW the answer to that riddle! >It is as small as small can get AND as BIG as big can get! >I have Seen it and this is the Truth. It cannot be >confined >to a size. It is the Dot. And it grows and diminishes as >needed. >:) >Nothin' like firsthand experience! :)) >Love, rhonda
Hello Rhonda, Ever since you mentioned this 'dot' it has been bouncing around in the emptiness of my cranium. Of course a dot is of infinite size all the way to a vanishing point. Yet as the dot there is nothing else. All encompassing yet vanishing. If we consider that there could be 'one', the dot in its infinite inclusiveness and infinite vanishing nature, the dot could describe the unsizable or wholistic nature of this 'one'. Albeit too dualistic to be actual, I do see where you came up with the 'dot' as an answer to the question :) Not thinking in dualistic terms there can't be 'one', there is just not 'two'. The symbol for zen points to this - 'O', meaning zero or whole. Thanks for stimulating the grey matter for me :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: on NDE
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:41:31 -0800
> Hi Rhonda. > Anything to add to it? > Have you met anyone who has had this experience that > you wouldn't mind sharing with us as well? > Not names but perhaps experience?
A long time ago i did know of someone, yes. But i did not know him before the 'experience' so i didn't witness any changes, but i do remember that he said he was a far different man than what he used to be. What i knew of him was a very kind and gentle soul. He was deeply spiritual, and i do recall that he mentioned a lengthy chat with Jesus while he was in betwixt both worlds, also. He definitely came to an understanding, and worked with the experience to enhance the rest of his life. I don't know what his marriage was like before the NDE, but i do know that he loved his wife very, very much and so perhaps it even brought them closer together. > Thanks and love to you > Shar
And to you ten-fold. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About Effort
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:24:26 -0800
>Good Morning Shar!
And again....ha
>->I guess I'll be first in jumping in on this one. :) > >Yeah :)
Well no one else seems to want to bite the morsel.
>->I always never look before leaping. > >That is a good trait on this Path :)
Some say I have more guts than brains :) But what the hey, if ya can't have fun with it all, what good is it?
>Is the best we can do really the best that we can do or the best we think >we can do? "The best I can do" has been said to be a cop out, based and >limited on and by our conditionings.
There ya go. That is truly debatable. But will answer for myself here. The best we can do, as a cop out, is only viable when we are not focused on the moment, or need some excuse to be lazy. We know those days as days when things never quite go the way we would like them to go. They are filled with frustrations and cut fingers. Then we spend time beating ourselves up. Other days we do the best we can when the body isn't co-operating. As long as we can stay focused on what we are doing, we are doing the best we can.
>->But it wasn't wrong. In saying there is correct effort, there has to be an >->opposite. > >Well as I am speaking of it there is effort and then there is correct >effort. You can give a lot of effort without it leading anywhere.
And yet, you can't keep your eye on the prize. We can't project the future into the moment. Plus the little fact, there is no place to go. For me, everything is based on my attention and focus. I don't worry or think about 'am I doing my best'? And for most things, I gave up multi tasking. When I do my housework, I don't have another job outside happening at the same time. I do the house until its done. Found to many loads left in the washer overnight. lol
It may appear that I don't get much done in a quick amount of time, but by focusing on one thing at a time, each thing is done as best it can be done that day. I gave up on trying to get many things done in one day, and thinking about what needs to done next. The next can be done tomorrow.
>You can >practice meditation for years and never silence the mind. You are still >giving effort, but not correct effort, not productive effort, because it >didn't lead to where you wanted to go.
I understand what you are saying, and I can see why you would say that. Yet, the statement is still centered around a goal or direction. A wish or desire. The effort towards meditation, is in giving yourself time to meditate. If you need to set aside time to do this. Meditation itself is non effort. You can't force yourself to clear your mind. That brings your focus to the clearing and not to the mediation. Make the clearing a part of the meditation through focus and attention. I used to have a little ritual I did before I even sat down to deliberate mediation. I spent some time doing the aura cleansing, the calming of the breath, and focusing on the clearing the blackboard of thoughts and ideas. I would watch the eraser take each thought and make it disappear. Or visualize my mind as the sky filled with clouds. Then these clouds would slowly melt away leaving me nothing but blue. When the sky was blue, I would concentrate on the breath. Visualizing the breath entering my body and each breath would enter each organ and limb leaving it relaxed and invisible. I would become no-thing. Through this practise, it took me at least 6 months to be able to enter into spontaneous meditative state. The effort was still in the form of attention and focus.
>Like the old saying goes "there is >your way and then there is the right way", not a wrong way just your way >and the right way.
The right way is anyway that works for you. What works for you isn't what works for another, no matter how hard they want it to work. Everyone has to find their own method through practise and experience. And it doesn't matter what path you take, eventually it becomes a pathless path. You either meditate or you don't. Each action is a form of meditation when you practise focus and attention.
The so called wrong way, is just not focusing and bringing your mind into the present moment.
>Correct effort doesn't have to be in the terms of dualism. Dualistically >seeing it there is correct effort and incorrect effort, right and wrong, >good and bad, so then 'personal self' can be placed within those >parameters.
Here is where I disagree, if I am understanding you correctly. And it could be a wording thing. Correct effort is dual, in any language. When in Rome.............when someone resides in the world of duality, we communicate in dualistic terms. The term is used as a tool for shifting focus and drawing attention to the present.
>->And I don't think this woman knew there was more to it, >->and therefore thought she gave all she could by chanting. > >Perhaps, she gave effort but not correct effort because it didn't take her >to where she wanted to go.
Ah, and yet, she didn't know that. In not knowing that, she did the best she could. In the end she learned that lesson. And that lesson will be carried with her.
>You can give a little effort, you can give some >effort and you can give a lot of effort, it still might not take you where >you want to go.
Thats true.
>There is a whole lot of effort, a whole lot of ways, and >then there is Correct Effort and The Way... >and that is where the drill >sergeant comes in 8-)
ha ha ha, I hear you and him.
For me, its all about focus and attention. And these become the way of life. And it becomes effortless. The way it is.
Its not effortless all the time. lol I recognize it when I am not focused. And some days, it stays that way. Those days I don't do anything that requires allot of focus or attention. Hormones go out of whack, or the allergies kick in. The focus changes and have to allow things to run their course. On those days it takes effort to make an effort.
Anyway, I talk to much.
Good day to all Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: on NDE
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:16:01 -0800
Hi Rhonda, thanks for sharing
>A long time ago i did know of someone, yes.
And did find yourself gaining something from knowing that someone? I found and find myself learning from those who have had such an experience. There is a sense of peace about them amongst the confusion. But as Ma states, the confusion is only from no longer knowing who they are. The peace must come from a sense of inner knowing. And it takes time to integrate the two.
> What i knew of him was a very >kind and gentle soul.
Yes, that was my experience as well. The difference between the before and after. Two of those I met, were not until after. But they were both kind and gentle with everything around them. The third is learning that. lol
>He was deeply spiritual, and i do recall >that he mentioned a lengthy chat with Jesus while he was in >betwixt both worlds, also.
None of mine spoke of Jesus. But of someone.
> I >don't know what his marriage was like before the NDE, but i do >know that he loved his wife very, very much and so perhaps it even >brought them closer together.
The first one I met, didn't have kids. His wife didn't want any. But you could see and hear that he wanted them. He settled for a dog. So although there were things lacking, he felt his wife was not strong enough to live alone. I guess she depended on him for many things. He stayed because he didn't want to feel guilty. But he was never happy with his life or that decision. After he left town, I heard from him a few times but that ended. His wife didn't like the idea that we were friends much. He would come over and spend a few hours entertaining my kids. Doing card tricks and clowning around.
The second one I met, finally got the courage to end a bad relationship. It was never good but hung around in not knowing what else to do. Didn't want to confuse the kids, but realized it was doing more harm than good.
The third one, is on going. So other than what I have said already, I can't add more yet. Except he spends more time with his grand kids now.
> > Thanks and love to you > > Shar > >And to you ten-fold. :)
Thanks Rhonda. Have a good one. Momma Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About Effort
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 08:54:14 -0800
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:24:26 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->>Good Morning Shar! -> ->And again....ha
*smile*
->>->I guess I'll be first in jumping in on this one. :) ->> ->>Yeah :) -> ->Well no one else seems to want to bite the morsel.
8-)
->>->I always never look before leaping. ->> ->>That is a good trait on this Path :) -> ->Some say I have more guts than brains :) ->But what the hey, if ya can't have fun with it all, ->what good is it?
Hahaha... true 8-)
->>Is the best we can do really the best that we can do or the best we think ->>we can do? "The best I can do" has been said to be a cop out, based and ->>limited on and by our conditionings. -> ->There ya go. That is truly debatable. But will ->answer for myself here. ->The best we can do, as a cop out, is only viable when ->we are not focused on the moment, or need some excuse to be lazy. ->We know those days as days when things never quite go the way we would like ->them ->to go. They are filled with frustrations and cut fingers. ->Then we spend time beating ourselves up. ->Other days we do the best we can when the body isn't co-operating. ->As long as we can stay focused on what we are doing, we are doing ->the best we can.
That's true sometimes we don't seem to be able to do much better but many times we don't use our full potential.
->>->But it wasn't wrong. In saying there is correct effort, there has to be an ->>->opposite. ->> ->>Well as I am speaking of it there is effort and then there is correct ->>effort. You can give a lot of effort without it leading anywhere. -> ->And yet, you can't keep your eye on the prize. We can't project the future ->into ->the moment. Plus the little fact, there is no place to go.
This is very True, I agree, I wasn't talking about goals and prizes. There doesn't always have to be goals.
->For me, everything is based on my attention and focus. ->I don't worry or think about 'am I doing my best'? ->And for most things, I gave up multi tasking. ->When I do my housework, I don't have another job outside ->happening at the same time. I do the house until its done. ->Found to many loads left in the washer overnight. lol
->It may appear that I don't get much done in a quick amount of time, ->but by focusing on one thing at a time, each thing is done as best it can ->be done ->that day. I gave up on trying to get many things done in one day, ->and thinking about what needs to done next. The next can be done tomorrow.
Ahh, no worry and no stress.
->>You can ->>practice meditation for years and never silence the mind. You are still ->>giving effort, but not correct effort, not productive effort, because it ->>didn't lead to where you wanted to go. -> ->I understand what you are saying, and I can see why you would say that. ->Yet, the statement is still centered around a goal or direction. ->A wish or desire.
It doesn't have to be.
->The effort towards meditation, is in giving yourself time to meditate. ->If you need to set aside time to do this. Meditation itself is non effort. ->You can't force yourself to clear your mind. That brings your focus ->to the clearing and not to the mediation. Make the clearing a part of the ->meditation ->through focus and attention. ->I used to have a little ritual I did before I even sat down to deliberate ->mediation. ->I spent some time doing the aura cleansing, the calming of the breath, ->and focusing on the clearing the blackboard of thoughts and ideas. ->I would watch the eraser take each thought and make it disappear. ->Or visualize my mind as the sky filled with clouds. Then these clouds would ->slowly melt away ->leaving me nothing but blue. When the sky was blue, I would concentrate on ->the breath. ->Visualizing the breath entering my body and each breath would enter each ->organ and limb ->leaving it relaxed and invisible. I would become no-thing. ->Through this practise, it took me at least 6 months to be ->able to enter into spontaneous meditative state. ->The effort was still in the form of attention and focus.
That's True.
->>Like the old saying goes "there is ->>your way and then there is the right way", not a wrong way just your way ->>and the right way. -> ->The right way is anyway that works for you. ->What works for you isn't what works for another, no matter how hard they ->want it to work. Everyone has to find their own method through practise and ->experience.
True, the right way is not something static, not from a rule book, but the right way is putting your heart into it, the right way is not opposed to the wrong way.
->And it doesn't matter what path you take, eventually it becomes a pathless ->path. ->You either meditate or you don't. ->Each action is a form of meditation when you practise focus and attention.
True.
->The so called wrong way, is just not focusing and -> bringing your mind into the present moment. -> ->>Correct effort doesn't have to be in the terms of dualism. Dualistically ->>seeing it there is correct effort and incorrect effort, right and wrong, ->>good and bad, so then 'personal self' can be placed within those ->>parameters. -> ->Here is where I disagree, if I am understanding you correctly. ->And it could be a wording thing. ->Correct effort is dual, in any language.
Yes, I was rather pointing to you have to put your heart in things and that that is the correct way and not opposed to a wrong way, rather than the words in themselves.
->When in Rome.............when someone resides in the world of duality, ->we communicate in dualistic terms.
True, language is dualistic, but we have to see beyond the dualistic terms of the words.
->The term is used as a tool for shifting focus ->and drawing attention to the present.
Yes.
->>->And I don't think this woman knew there was more to it, ->>->and therefore thought she gave all she could by chanting. ->> ->>Perhaps, she gave effort but not correct effort because it didn't take her ->>to where she wanted to go. -> ->Ah, and yet, she didn't know that. -> In not knowing that, she did the best she could. ->In the end she learned that lesson. And that lesson will be ->carried with her.
It's kind of common sense to get the most out of something you have to put your heart in it.
->>You can give a little effort, you can give some ->>effort and you can give a lot of effort, it still might not take you where ->>you want to go. -> ->Thats true. -> ->>There is a whole lot of effort, a whole lot of ways, and ->>then there is Correct Effort and The Way... ->>and that is where the drill ->>sergeant comes in 8-) -> ->ha ha ha, I hear you and him. -> ->For me, its all about focus and attention. ->And these become the way of life. ->And it becomes effortless. ->The way it is. -> ->Its not effortless all the time. lol ->I recognize it when I am not focused. ->And some days, it stays that way. ->Those days I don't do anything ->that requires allot of focus or attention. ->Hormones go out of whack, or the allergies kick in. ->The focus changes and have to allow ->things to run their course. ->On those days it takes effort to ->make an effort.
Yes, true.
->Anyway, I talk to much.
No, not too much, It is nice to have a discussion and at least I am learning a lot from it, so don't stop :)
->Good day to all ->Shar
A Beautiful Day to you :)
Anna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:31:19 -0800
>> Hello Rhonda, > >Hello Ma :) > >> Ever since you mentioned this 'dot' it has been bouncing >> around in the emptiness of my cranium. Of course a dot is >> of >> infinite size all the way to a vanishing point. Yet as >> the >> dot there is nothing else. All encompassing yet >> vanishing. >> If we consider that there could be 'one', the dot in its >> infinite inclusiveness and infinite vanishing nature, the >> dot could describe the unsizable or wholistic nature of >> this >> 'one'. Albeit too dualistic to be actual, I do see where >> you >> came up with the 'dot' as an answer to the question :) > >me too :)
Not 'two' :) Too indicates two :)
>>Not >> thinking in dualistic terms there can't be 'one', there >> is >> just not 'two'. The symbol for zen points to this - 'O', >> meaning zero or whole. > >All or nothing. Yes...thank you...i was hasty in my >response >to that question. Because if i had emptied my own cranium >i would have seen that 'one' had nothing to do with the >dot. >More of a '0' as you have shown. There was no 'oneness' >about it when i witnessed it...i put that there all by >myself. >It is never wise to be hasty when Shar throws something out >there to wrap (warp ?) our brains around. :)
Yes emptiness is the fullness of 'all'. When we empty our head it is then full of the remaining 'real self'. Keep it simple, empty it out and only have what is needed. And all that's needed is 'real self' because then everything is provided. Even answers :) When the head is cluttered with a bunch of thoughts we can't see 'real self'. Remove the clutter and there 'real self' is. Yes Sharlene makes good discussion but so do you really when you just let yourself. You don't let yourself express yourself enough I think. Just make it simple and express yourself. You don't have anybody to fear but yourself :)
>>Thanks for stimulating the grey matter for me :) > >Thank YOU. I tried to change wholeness, completeness, >nothingness into some 'thing'. But i didn't see that i was >doing that until your response.
Yes 'things' always get in the way. People should make their life simple along with their head. Simple is less confusing and less worries. People seem to be collectors of 'things' so they can't collect themselves. They really have to get collected because they seem so scattered like the 'things' they collect. Maybe they will see the impermanence of all those 'things' when they leave this world of 'things'. Whey they leave the world they have to leave the 'things' as well. Buddha was onto something with his impermanence notion :)
Thanks for the reply :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:05:27 -0800
> Hello Rhonda,
Hello Ma :)
> Ever since you mentioned this 'dot' it has been bouncing > around in the emptiness of my cranium. Of course a dot is of > infinite size all the way to a vanishing point. Yet as the > dot there is nothing else. All encompassing yet vanishing. > If we consider that there could be 'one', the dot in its > infinite inclusiveness and infinite vanishing nature, the > dot could describe the unsizable or wholistic nature of this > 'one'. Albeit too dualistic to be actual, I do see where you > came up with the 'dot' as an answer to the question :)
me too :)
>Not > thinking in dualistic terms there can't be 'one', there is > just not 'two'. The symbol for zen points to this - 'O', > meaning zero or whole.
All or nothing. Yes...thank you...i was hasty in my response to that question. Because if i had emptied my own cranium i would have seen that 'one' had nothing to do with the dot. More of a '0' as you have shown. There was no 'oneness' about it when i witnessed it...i put that there all by myself. It is never wise to be hasty when Shar throws something out there to wrap (warp ?) our brains around. :)
>Thanks for stimulating the grey matter for me :)
Thank YOU. I tried to change wholeness, completeness, nothingness into some 'thing'. But i didn't see that i was doing that until your response.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: on NDE
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:57 -0800
> Hi Rhonda, > thanks for sharing
:)
> >A long time ago i did know of someone, yes. > > And did find yourself gaining something from knowing that someone? > I found and find myself learning from those who have had such an experience. > There is a sense of peace about them amongst the confusion. > But as Ma states, the confusion is only from no longer knowing who they are. > The peace must come from a sense of inner knowing. > And it takes time to integrate the two.
I did indeed gain many, many 'somethings' from him. I don't think he was confused about it, at the stage that i conversed with him. He was just genuinely peaceful and loved each stage of his existence more than the last. It was something that just oozed out of him, and there really is no other words to describe it. But it kind of wrapped itself around me and made me pay attention because it was the kind of thing that i would like to have pour out of me, as well. :)
> > What i knew of him was a very > >kind and gentle soul. > > Yes, that was my experience as well. > The difference between the before and after. > Two of those I met, were not until after. > But they were both kind and gentle with everything > around them. The third is learning that. lol
It must be an incredibly powerful kind of transformation. Personally, that is not the way in which i would like to wake up to Truth and Beauty, but one just never knows .. :)
> >He was deeply spiritual, and i do recall > >that he mentioned a lengthy chat with Jesus while he was in > >betwixt both worlds, also. > > None of mine spoke of Jesus. > But of someone.
He was shy to speak of it.
> > I > >don't know what his marriage was like before the NDE, but i do > >know that he loved his wife very, very much and so perhaps it even > >brought them closer together. > > The first one I met, didn't have kids. > His wife didn't want any. But you could see and hear that he wanted them. > He settled for a dog. So although there were things lacking, he felt his wife > was not strong enough to live alone. I guess she depended on him for > many things. He stayed because he didn't want to feel guilty. > But he was never happy with his life or that decision. After he left town, > I heard from him a few times but that ended. His wife didn't like the idea > that we > were friends much. He would come over and spend a few hours entertaining my > kids. > Doing card tricks and clowning around.
Guilt is a heavy, nasty varmint. It halts us in our tracks and leaves no room for freedom of movement...lightness.
> The second one I met, finally got the courage to end a bad relationship. > It was never good but hung around in not knowing what else to do. > Didn't want to confuse the kids, but realized it was doing more harm than > good.
Guilt, again.
> The third one, is on going. So other than what I have said already, > I can't add more yet. Except he spends more time with his grand kids now.
I guess there are many ways to have life altering experiences and as many ways to deal with them. Hopefully the grand kids will bring back the child in him and point him in an uplifting direction.
This discussion has made me feel rather like dancing and being grateful for having the opportunity to be a silent witness without having to die to experience it.
Love ya, ma! rhonda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:03:25 -0800
> >>Albeit too dualistic to be actual, I do see where > >> you > >> came up with the 'dot' as an answer to the question :) > > > >me too :) > > Not 'two' :) Too indicates two :)
me zero :) > Yes emptiness is the fullness of 'all'. When we empty our > head it is then full of the remaining 'real self'. Keep it > simple, empty it out and only have what is needed. And all > that's needed is 'real self' because then everything is > provided. Even answers :)
:) Yes, even them.
>When the head is cluttered with a > bunch of thoughts we can't see 'real self'. Remove the > clutter and there 'real self' is. Yes Sharlene makes good > discussion but so do you really when you just let yourself. > You don't let yourself express yourself enough I think. Just > make it simple and express yourself. You don't have anybody > to fear but yourself :)
Thank you. Probably one around this house would say i express myself 'loud and clear thank you very much'. :) I hesitate at the computer when, as you say, the clutter is in the way. When 'real self' is lost behind the clutter there is really not a whole lot to say that isn't drivel. :) > >>Thanks for stimulating the grey matter for me :) > > > >Thank YOU. I tried to change wholeness, completeness, > >nothingness into some 'thing'. But i didn't see that i was > >doing that until your response. > > Yes 'things' always get in the way. People should make their > life simple along with their head. Simple is less confusing > and less worries. People seem to be collectors of 'things' > so they can't collect themselves. They really have to get > collected because they seem so scattered like the 'things' > they collect. Maybe they will see the impermanence of all > those 'things' when they leave this world of 'things'. Whey > they leave the world they have to leave the 'things' as > well. Buddha was onto something with his impermanence notion > :)
How True. I am forever tripping over 'things', picking up 'things' cleaning 'things' and forgetting 'things'. They do tend to take up a lot of time, considering they won't mean a 'thing' when we leave this world.
> Thanks for the reply :)
:) It was nothing.
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:41:59 -0800
>> >>Albeit too dualistic to be actual, I do see where >> >> you >> >> came up with the 'dot' as an answer to the question :) >> > >> >me too :) >> >> Not 'two' :) Too indicates two :) > > me zero :) > >> Yes emptiness is the fullness of 'all'. When we empty our >> head it is then full of the remaining 'real self'. Keep >> it >> simple, empty it out and only have what is needed. And >> all >> that's needed is 'real self' because then everything is >> provided. Even answers :) > >:) Yes, even them. > >>When the head is cluttered with a >> bunch of thoughts we can't see 'real self'. Remove the >> clutter and there 'real self' is. Yes Sharlene makes good >> discussion but so do you really when you just let >> yourself. >> You don't let yourself express yourself enough I think. >> Just >> make it simple and express yourself. You don't have >> anybody >> to fear but yourself :) > > Thank you. Probably one around this house would say i >express myself 'loud and clear thank you very much'. :) >I hesitate at the computer when, as you say, the clutter is >in >the way. When 'real self' is lost behind the clutter there >is >really not a whole lot to say that isn't drivel. :)
Then hesitate no longer. You deprive the world of hearing you and your 'real self' through you. Clean up the clutter to get everything simple. We continue to have clutter as a distraction so we don't have to think about our misery. So we don't have to think about the hole in our life. Because without being our 'real self' there is always a hole we can't fill. Although we try to fill it with things and noise and thoughts - clutter. I haven't known anyone to fill it that way yet, but they do fool themselves about it. They even fool others. But they still feel the hole.
>> >>Thanks for stimulating the grey matter for me :) >> > >> >Thank YOU. I tried to change wholeness, completeness, >> >nothingness into some 'thing'. But i didn't see that i >> >was >> >doing that until your response. >> >> Yes 'things' always get in the way. People should make >> their >> life simple along with their head. Simple is less >> confusing >> and less worries. People seem to be collectors of >> 'things' >> so they can't collect themselves. They really have to get >> collected because they seem so scattered like the >> 'things' >> they collect. Maybe they will see the impermanence of all >> those 'things' when they leave this world of 'things'. >> Whey >> they leave the world they have to leave the 'things' as >> well. Buddha was onto something with his impermanence >> notion >> :) > >How True. I am forever tripping over 'things', picking up >'things' >cleaning 'things' and forgetting 'things'. They do tend to >take up >a lot of time, considering they won't mean a 'thing' when >we >leave this world.
Yes even with the burden of 'things' we continue to gather and possess as though 'things' are some part of us. We get real attached to 'things'. Instant pleasures but then the pleasure is gone. 'Things' seem to give us some feeling of importance so we continually keep surrounding ourselves with them. It never satisfies us so we keep gathering in the hopes that when we are buried with 'things' we will feel satisfied. It is a bottomless hole though so it never works adequately. They are also a big depletion of our resources so we can't use our resources for important and meaningful purposes. A wasteful existence it seems. Simple is so simple. And no waste. Then we have resources in excess and can do much good with them.
> > Thanks for the reply :) > >:) It was nothing.
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:37:02 -0800
Ma, don't hold any punches
> Then hesitate no longer. You deprive the world of hearing you and your 'real self' through you. Clean up the clutter to get everything simple. We continue to have clutter as a distraction so we don't have to think about our misery. So we don't have to think about the hole in our life. Because without being our 'real self' there is always a hole we can't fill. Although we try to fill it with things and noise and thoughts - clutter. I haven't known anyone to fill it that way yet, but they do fool themselves about it. They even fool others. But they still feel the hole.
Yes. The hole in the Whole.
My intention is not to deprive anyone. Rather, the opposite.
> Yes even with the burden of 'things' we continue to gather and possess as though 'things' are some part of us. We get real attached to 'things'. Instant pleasures but then the pleasure is gone. 'Things' seem to give us some feeling of importance so we continually keep surrounding ourselves with them. It never satisfies us so we keep gathering in the hopes that when we are buried with 'things' we will feel satisfied. It is a bottomless hole though so it never works adequately. They are also a big depletion of our resources so we can't use our resources for important and meaningful purposes. A wasteful existence it seems. Simple is so simple. And no waste. Then we have resources in excess and can do much good with them.
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:03:19 -0800
I apologize, i sent the last note prematurely.. to finish..
> > Yes even with the burden of 'things' we continue to gather and > possess as though 'things' are some part of us. We get real attached to > 'things'. Instant pleasures but then the pleasure is gone. 'Things' seem to > give us some feeling of importance so we continually keep surrounding > ourselves with them. It never satisfies us so we keep gathering in the hopes > that when we are buried with 'things' we will feel satisfied. It is a > bottomless > hole though so it never works adequately. They are also a big depletion of > our resources so we can't use our resources for important and meaningful > purposes. A wasteful existence it seems. Simple is so > simple. And no waste. > Then we have resources in excess and can do much good with them.
I would like to do much good with my resources. I haven't so far. But i choose to change all that. :) It's tough making a living and having something extra, for most. People get scared and hoard what they have because of 'past experience' and 'future fear'. But i feel as Deepak says that money is energy, resources are energy, that need to be shared fully to keep everything in positive motion.
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:29:58 -0800
>Ma, don't hold any punches
:)
>> Then hesitate no longer. You deprive the world of hearing >> you and >your 'real self' through you. Clean up the clutter to get >everything simple. >We continue to have clutter as a distraction so we don't >have to think >about our misery. So we don't have to think about the hole >in our life. >Because without being our 'real self' there is always a >hole we can't fill. >Although we try to fill it with things and noise and >thoughts - clutter. I >haven't known anyone to fill it that way yet, but they do >fool themselves >about it. They even fool others. But they still feel the >hole. > >Yes. The hole in the Whole.
Well, make the whole whole, simple. Make it a holeless whole. Doing it gets it done.
>My intention is not to deprive anyone. Rather, the >opposite.
Intentions many times are good paving for the road to hell, so it's said. Intentions don't get things done, doing it gets it done. Your heart is in the right place but there has to be actions also :)
>> Yes even with the burden of 'things' we continue to >> gather and >possess as though 'things' are some part of us. We get real >attached to >'things'. Instant pleasures but then the pleasure is >gone. 'Things' seem to >give us some feeling of importance so we continually keep >surrounding >ourselves with them. It never satisfies us so we keep >gathering in the hopes >that when we are buried with 'things' we will feel >satisfied. It is a >bottomless >hole though so it never works adequately. They are also a >big depletion of >our resources so we can't use our resources for important >and meaningful >purposes. A wasteful existence it seems. Simple is so >simple. And no waste. >Then we have resources in excess and can do much good with >them. > >I would like to do much good with my resources. I haven't >so far. But >i choose to change all that. :) It's tough making a >living and having >something extra, for most. People get scared and hoard >what they >have because of 'past experience' and 'future fear'. But >i feel as Deepak >says that money is energy, resources are energy, that need >to be shared >fully to keep everything in positive motion.
Chopra, good man, and a wise one. Living simple and frugal leaves you with so much to offer in some direction that would be beneficial to people working to purify themselves spiritually. There is a lot of charity work that can be done but a lot of times that is dumping resources into a bottomless back hole. The most important thing we can do is to use our excess resources, which includes our time, to help people be their 'real self' also. Work with them and support those who do work with them. A lot can be done when you put your heart into it :)
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Clide Stillwater <tidestillwater@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:56:00 -0800 (PST)
Hi Ma, hope you don't mind me jumpin in,
> Chopra, good man, and a wise one. Living simple and > frugal > leaves you with so much to offer in some direction > that > would be beneficial to people working to purify > themselves > spiritually. There is a lot of charity work that can > be done > but a lot of times that is dumping resources into a > bottomless back hole. The most important thing we > can do is > to use our excess resources, which includes our > time, to > help people be their 'real self' also. Work with > them and > support those who do work with them. A lot can be > done when > you put your heart into it :)
Ya, I know about this. Here in this little community of Owl Creek we have a farm left when the Hatties died. No kids so nobody claimed it. So everybody here keeps it up for down and outers. They farm it and help us and share with us and we share with them. Kind of like this community here :) We have our meetins and sit quiet. Meditate I think its called. And we try to be kind to each other and critters and the earth. Ain't much but its just nice.
So far this has been a real informative and friendly group, thanks y'all :)
Clide
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 21:31:22 -0800
Hello Clide, >Hi Ma, hope you don't mind me jumpin in,
Of course, it's an open group. I don't mind.
>> Chopra, good man, and a wise one. Living simple and >> frugal >> leaves you with so much to offer in some direction >> that >> would be beneficial to people working to purify >> themselves >> spiritually. There is a lot of charity work that can >> be done >> but a lot of times that is dumping resources into a >> bottomless back hole. The most important thing we >> can do is >> to use our excess resources, which includes our >> time, to >> help people be their 'real self' also. Work with >> them and >> support those who do work with them. A lot can be >> done when >> you put your heart into it :) > >Ya, I know about this. Here in this little community >of Owl Creek we have a farm left when the Hatties >died. No kids so nobody claimed it. So everybody here >keeps it up for down and outers. They farm it and help >us and share with us and we share with them. Kind of >like this community here :) We have our meetins and >sit quiet. Meditate I think its called. And we try to >be kind to each other and critters and the earth. >Ain't much but its just nice. > >So far this has been a real informative and friendly >group, thanks y'all :) > >Clide
That is a nice thing your community is doing for others. Unity and simple sharing. No one hoarding 'things' and pooling resources. And thank you for sharing this. We see so much selfishness in the world that it's refreshing to hear your sharing.
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 21:33:59 -0800
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:56:00 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
->Hi Ma, hope you don't mind me jumpin in,
Hi Clide, hope you don't mind me jumping in :)
->> Chopra, good man, and a wise one. Living simple and ->> frugal ->> leaves you with so much to offer in some direction ->> that ->> would be beneficial to people working to purify ->> themselves ->> spiritually. There is a lot of charity work that can ->> be done ->> but a lot of times that is dumping resources into a ->> bottomless back hole. The most important thing we ->> can do is ->> to use our excess resources, which includes our ->> time, to ->> help people be their 'real self' also. Work with ->> them and ->> support those who do work with them. A lot can be ->> done when ->> you put your heart into it :) -> ->Ya, I know about this. Here in this little community ->of Owl Creek we have a farm left when the Hatties ->died. No kids so nobody claimed it. So everybody here ->keeps it up for down and outers. They farm it and help ->us and share with us and we share with them. Kind of ->like this community here :) We have our meetins and ->sit quiet. Meditate I think its called. And we try to ->be kind to each other and critters and the earth. ->Ain't much but its just nice. -> ->So far this has been a real informative and friendly ->group, thanks y'all :) -> ->Clide
Thanks for sharing Clide. It is nice to hear about those places where people still help each other like that in giving and taking and sharing. It reminds me of the sleepy farming community in Sweden where I grew up. And that it ain't much is many times very much :)
Like we say in Sweden "simma lugnt" (take it easy) 8-)
Anna
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Subject: Re: Another Quote....Welcome Clide
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:12:33 -0800
At 09:33 PM 05/03/2006, you wrote: >On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:56:00 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >->Hi Ma, hope you don't mind me jumpin in, > >Hi Clide, hope you don't mind me jumping in :)
Me too, me too ! ( how egotistical is that? lol) Just jumping in to say hello. Don't belive I have had the pleasure to meet you before this.
Sounds like a great little community. Like this little one on line. This town used to be like that, but not anymore. Now its sort of 75% paranoid, and not to many visit around anymore.
This small, almost gated community mobile home park, is like that though. Somewhat like its own township. There has been a shift in tenants during this last year, but slowly once again, everyone is meeting everyone else again.
I am the first mobile in the park, and spend most of my time outside. So everyone who comes through usually stops and chats for a bit. Or they wave as they go by.
It also seems it is half filled with single people, mostly divorced, but some never married ones. The rest have young children or are retired.
A world within a world. And it's nice.
And there she goes again, off on another tangent. :) Now I'll check the other mail and see what yesterday brought.
Good morning all. Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:59:55 -0800
Good morning Ma, Rhonda and everyone else. You guys wrote:
>Then hesitate no longer. You deprive the world of hearing you and your >'real self' through you.
Ha, we have been trying to tell Rhonda that for years. But maybe now she will listen to you. lol She has allot on the ball and hesitates to share it.
>Clean up the clutter to get everything simple. We >continue to have clutter as a distraction so we don't have to think about >our misery.
Half the time our misery is the clutter that surrounds us physically, not just mentally. Some even call it, comforting, and cosy, rather than admit its just isolating and slowly choking you to death. I purged 23 boxes of books last year. I did however have to get tough with myself to do it. The mind isn't so easy all the time.
And the purging continues today. Getting ready for yet another garage sale. Admitting to myself that I will never do some of those projects I have saved, has always been like an admittance of defeat. :) But looking at them sitting there, is defeat also.
Out of sight, out of mind. Narrow down the crap to a sizable amount, and to the things I know I am doing, or will do. So in that process, have become my own biggest complainer about myself. Ya just gotta get tough with yourself sometimes.
>So we don't have to think about the hole in our life. Because >without being our 'real self' there is always a hole we can't fill.
This is what I am aiming to accomplish. I want holes in my life and around me. I don't want something in every corner, I want a hole where I look. I want and need that sense of emptiness.
Not exactly what you are saying is it? I know that. I just am talking to hear myself . Reminding myself that today is another good day to get busy. lol
Carry on gang. Shar
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Subject: Re: on NDE
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 05:06:22 -0800
Good morning Rhonda.
> It must be an incredibly powerful kind of transformation. > Personally, that is not the way in which i would like to wake up > to Truth and Beauty, but one just never knows .. :)
ha ha, since we don't have any thing such as choice............ like ya say, we just never know. Some awakenings come in with a bang, and some not quite so loud. Some of us stubborn as a bull people, don't hear anything without the bang. Seems we have to be desperate to listen or hear. To the point where there is nothing to do, but surrender. And take that step into the void.
I think thats the old saying of more guts than brains. Works for me. ha ha. I wouldn't do much if I thought everything through first.
I suppose I shouldn't admit that though.
Shar
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Subject: Re: About Effort
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 05:34:12 -0800
At 08:54 AM 04/03/2006, you wrote: >On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:24:26 -0800,
you wrote: > >-> >->>Good Morning Shar!
Good morning again, I am slow this last couple of days, Been a bit busy it seems.
>->Other days we do the best we can when the body isn't co-operating. >->As long as we can stay focused on what we are doing, we are doing >->the best we can. > >That's true sometimes we don't seem to be able to do much better but many >times we don't use our full potential.
I think,( there ya go again) that we don't or can't recognize our full potential as it is constantly in flux. What may be our full potential today, is not what it will be tomorrow. As long as we are in learning mode, and clearing mode, our full potential is masked through our own veils of conditioning. Being told by someone that we can't do this or that. Or are crazy to try, and waste our time on things that won't work anyway. So we begin to second guess ourselves and our possibilities.
I don't know about others, but when I am told those words, you can't, you shouldn't, etc, it's like a challenge or a dare. I mean, how dare someone say I can't do something? lol I am constantly pushing my own limits. Like my unknown source of the fear of heights.
At Xmas time in Vancouver, I forced myself to do the Capilano suspension bridge, and the treetop walk. The first time was scary, but the second time went off with no problems and less shaking of the knees. Still had a bit of nerves when looking down from the edges. Its a long drop in places. So will still push myself to get over that bit. A fence helps. lol
without a fence, I want to fall off. Somehow in my mind, it wants to fly like a bird, but the body knows it will fall like a ton of bricks instead, and that would be a big ow-eee. So fear of pain, keeps me from going over or near the edge. The knees shake uncontrollably. Its crazy. So I stay away from the edges that have no fences.
Not from a fear of death, from the fear of pain, lol
>->And yet, you can't keep your eye on the prize. We can't project the future >->into >->the moment. Plus the little fact, there is no place to go. > >This is very True, I agree, I wasn't talking about goals and prizes. There >doesn't always have to be goals.
I have to disagree with you here just a little bit. There is always a goal. There is always a reason for what we do. If there wasn't, we wouldn't do anything. I would agree to the point that sometimes we aren't aware of a goal. But there is always a goal of some kind lurking in the background. Some may call it preparedness. Like dishes being done in preparation for the next meal, not as an ending to one. The goal is preparedness in most cases. Mostly its a play on words so the mind can think it doesn't have a goal and that we are just doing. And we are just doing, just doing what needs to be done through the act of preparation. The focus however, is not on the prize, but on the act of doing, without thought of the future. Awareness of the present, while being prepared for the future.
What do you think? Think my theory sucks rocks? Let's discuss it...........LOL
Shar
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:27:07 -0800
Shar, sweet day to you and All Hi Clide!!! ..umm is Stillwater your REAL last name? :)
> Good morning Ma, Rhonda and everyone else. > You guys wrote: > > >Then hesitate no longer. You deprive the world of hearing you and your > >'real self' through you. > > Ha, we have been trying to tell Rhonda that for years. > But maybe now she will listen to you. lol > She has allot on the ball and hesitates to share it.
Whoa! I DO share! I am here, aren't i? There are at least forty some odd other people on this list who haven't shared ANYTHING Yet. :) Why ya'll pickin on me when i DO speak up??? If you get or read the newsletter then you have a great insight into who i am, because it comes together in much the same way my life is unfolding at the time. And so i feel i am opening myself up to you nice people all the time. :) So....pick on rhonda week is over? :)
> >Clean up the clutter to get everything simple. We > >continue to have clutter as a distraction so we don't have to think about > >our misery. > > Half the time our misery is the clutter that surrounds us physically, > not just mentally. Some even call it, comforting, and cosy, > rather than admit its just isolating and slowly choking you to death. > I purged 23 boxes of books last year. I did however have to get tough with > myself > to do it. > The mind isn't so easy all the time.
If you had a bigger home and more room would you have given away your books? I wouldn't have. Even in the Zen Way...if i had emptied my home and put back in only what i needed....the books would be the first back in. :) How interesting...i just realized this moment about a concurring story that happened yesterday at the grocery store. As i was giving Carl a chance to load the cart a young girl was standing at the end of the checkout aisle, and she was yawning. I smiled at her because she looked worn out. I asked her if she was tired and she went on to tell me a little story about that it was not from work that was tired but from staying up every single second til dawn, reading. She was so cute. She said "Have you ever heard of your parents grounding you for reading before?" My whole heart went out to her because i suddenly remembered a time when i had done that and i had to be at work early in the morning. I actually phoned my boss and told him the total truth and because he had seen my nose dug into that book (the all- in-one trilogy of "Lord of the Rings") he had laughed and told me to go to sleep. I digress :) Isn't that what ya wanted... haha
> And the purging continues today. Getting ready > for yet another garage sale. Admitting to myself that > I will never do some of those projects I have saved, > has always been like an admittance of defeat. :) > But looking at them sitting there, is defeat also. > > Out of sight, out of mind. > Narrow down the crap to a sizable amount, > and to the things I know I am doing, or will do. > So in that process, have become my own biggest complainer > about myself. Ya just gotta get tough with yourself sometimes.
I agree with that. Perhaps i will get at that storage area under the stairs! :) Not the books though...
> >So we don't have to think about the hole in our life. Because > >without being our 'real self' there is always a hole we can't fill. > > This is what I am aiming to accomplish. > I want holes in my life and around me. > I don't want something in every corner, > I want a hole where I look. > I want and need that sense of emptiness. > > Not exactly what you are saying is it? > I know that. I just am talking to hear myself . > Reminding myself that today is > another good day to get busy. lol
I hear you, Shar. And i hear you as well, Ma. (I almost said 'too' there:)) Holes in our space and time is different than holes in our heart. Holes in the heart are unbearable. I mean, you can't be whole if have a hole in your heart.
> Carry on gang.
"Carry on Regardless" --Van the Man... from the cd "Magic Time"
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Subject: Re: on NDE
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:56:30 -0800
> Good morning Rhonda.
Good morning :) > > It must be an incredibly powerful kind of transformation. > > Personally, that is not the way in which i would like to wake up > > to Truth and Beauty, but one just never knows .. :) > > ha ha, since we don't have any thing such as choice............ > like ya say, we just never know.
Well, no, we don't have any choice, that's true...at least not with what is physically happening at the moment. The choice only comes in when we do the correct things. For we can let our conditionings tell us what is the best moment to moment action, or we can drop the conditionings and do what is ACTUALLY the correct action in the moment. How many times do we let our habits get in the way of what is the best thing or the correct thing to do in this very moment? "It will be okay to do better, later?" cop outs.. Each moment is alive and each moment is the impetus to the next moment. And so, when we cop out and cater to our personal needs and forget that moments are passing by....we essentially Lose. Everybody loses because we weren't in any way paying attention to what those moments were offerring. We were busy paying attention to what we 'wanted' those moments to offer.
> Some awakenings come in with a bang, and some not quite so loud. > Some of us stubborn as a bull people, don't hear anything > without the bang. > Seems we have to be desperate to listen or hear. > To the point where there is nothing to do, but surrender. > And take that step into the void.
I understand your Taurean perspective. :) Literally, as i have a moon in Taurus. > I think thats the old saying of more guts than brains. > Works for me. ha ha. > I wouldn't do much if I thought everything through first. > > I suppose I shouldn't admit that though.
Is it a matter of thinking everything through first? Deep down inside, at the heart of all matter, don't we REALLY just KNOW what is best?
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:46:24 -0800
Ma, sunny day
> >> Then hesitate no longer. You deprive the world of hearing > >> you and > >your 'real self' through you. Clean up the clutter to get > >everything simple. > >We continue to have clutter as a distraction so we don't > >have to think > >about our misery. So we don't have to think about the hole > >in our life. > >Because without being our 'real self' there is always a > >hole we can't fill. > >Although we try to fill it with things and noise and > >thoughts - clutter. I > >haven't known anyone to fill it that way yet, but they do > >fool themselves > >about it. They even fool others. But they still feel the > >hole. > > > >Yes. The hole in the Whole. > > Well, make the whole whole, simple. Make it a holeless > whole. Doing it gets it done.
And so you are absolutely simply genuinely correct. There should Never be a hole in the Whole. The whole should be whole. Without the clutter there is never any gaps to leap. Just a continuous movement from moment to moment. Thank you. > >My intention is not to deprive anyone. Rather, the > >opposite. > > Intentions many times are good paving for the road to hell, > so it's said. Intentions don't get things done, doing it > gets it done. Your heart is in the right place but there has > to be actions also :)
And what particular actions am i depriving others of?
> Chopra, good man, and a wise one. Living simple and frugal > leaves you with so much to offer in some direction that > would be beneficial to people working to purify themselves > spiritually. There is a lot of charity work that can be done > but a lot of times that is dumping resources into a > bottomless back hole. The most important thing we can do is > to use our excess resources, which includes our time, to > help people be their 'real self' also. Work with them and > support those who do work with them. A lot can be done when > you put your heart into it :)
I agree. Excess time seems to be a rarity on most occassions, though. Days are long and work is physically demanding. How much is enough to help? If we feel in our heart that we are helping who is to judge how much is enough?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:46:58 -0800
> ->you put your heart into it :) > -> > ->Ya, I know about this. Here in this little community > ->of Owl Creek we have a farm left when the Hatties > ->died. No kids so nobody claimed it. So everybody here > ->keeps it up for down and outers. They farm it and help > ->us and share with us and we share with them. Kind of > ->like this community here :) We have our meetins and > ->sit quiet. Meditate I think its called. And we try to > ->be kind to each other and critters and the earth. > ->Ain't much but its just nice. > -> > ->So far this has been a real informative and friendly > ->group, thanks y'all :) > -> > ->Clide > > Thanks for sharing Clide. It is nice to hear about those places where > people still help each other like that in giving and taking and sharing. It > reminds me of the sleepy farming community in Sweden where I grew up. > And that it ain't much is many times very much :) > > Like we say in Sweden "simma lugnt" (take it easy) 8-) > > Anna
Thank you as well, Clide. :) Both of you...i would love to hear more about your hometowns. Anna...Sweden ....tell us more! What was it like to grow up in the outskirts of Sweden?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:32:51 -0800
>Ma, sunny day
Yes it is Rhonda :) Actually it's always a sunny day even when it's raining or overcast. It's always a sunny day in the heart.
>> >> Then hesitate no longer. You deprive the world of >> >> hearing >> >> you and >> >your 'real self' through you. Clean up the clutter to >> >get >> >everything simple. >> >We continue to have clutter as a distraction so we don't >> >have to think >> >about our misery. So we don't have to think about the >> >hole >> >in our life. >> >Because without being our 'real self' there is always a >> >hole we can't fill. >> >Although we try to fill it with things and noise and >> >thoughts - clutter. I >> >haven't known anyone to fill it that way yet, but they >> >do >> >fool themselves >> >about it. They even fool others. But they still feel the >> >hole. >> > >> >Yes. The hole in the Whole. >> >> Well, make the whole whole, simple. Make it a holeless >> whole. Doing it gets it done. > >And so you are absolutely simply genuinely correct. >There should Never be a hole in the Whole. The whole >should be whole. Without the clutter there is never any >gaps >to leap. Just a continuous movement from moment to moment. >Thank you.
You don't need to thank me for telling you that, you already knew that. I think you know more than you think. I think you're just being shy :)
>> >My intention is not to deprive anyone. Rather, the >> >opposite. >> >> Intentions many times are good paving for the road to >> hell, >> so it's said. Intentions don't get things done, doing it >> gets it done. Your heart is in the right place but there >> has >> to be actions also :) > >And what particular actions am i depriving others of?
You would have to take that inventory. Such things have to be answered by ourselves to ourselves. We are the one who knows our inventory. At least we are supposed to know ourselves. That's why we get into spiritual studies, to know ourselves and our inventory.
>> Chopra, good man, and a wise one. Living simple and >> frugal >> leaves you with so much to offer in some direction that >> would be beneficial to people working to purify >> themselves >> spiritually. There is a lot of charity work that can be >> done >> but a lot of times that is dumping resources into a >> bottomless back hole. The most important thing we can do >> is >> to use our excess resources, which includes our time, to >> help people be their 'real self' also. Work with them and >> support those who do work with them. A lot can be done >> when >> you put your heart into it :) > >I agree. Excess time seems to be a rarity on most >occassions, >though. Days are long and work is physically demanding. >How >much is enough to help? If we feel in our heart that we >are helping >who is to judge how much is enough?
Only you can be the judge of that. But it's not really a judgment. You'll just know. When you know yourself and your inventory then you'll just know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:03:43 -0800
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:46:58 -0800, you wrote:
-> -> -> ->> ->you put your heart into it :) ->> -> ->> ->Ya, I know about this. Here in this little community ->> ->of Owl Creek we have a farm left when the Hatties ->> ->died. No kids so nobody claimed it. So everybody here ->> ->keeps it up for down and outers. They farm it and help ->> ->us and share with us and we share with them. Kind of ->> ->like this community here :) We have our meetins and ->> ->sit quiet. Meditate I think its called. And we try to ->> ->be kind to each other and critters and the earth. ->> ->Ain't much but its just nice. ->> -> ->> ->So far this has been a real informative and friendly ->> ->group, thanks y'all :) ->> -> ->> ->Clide ->> ->> Thanks for sharing Clide. It is nice to hear about those places where ->> people still help each other like that in giving and taking and sharing. It ->> reminds me of the sleepy farming community in Sweden where I grew up. ->> And that it ain't much is many times very much :) ->> ->> Like we say in Sweden "simma lugnt" (take it easy) 8-) ->> ->> Anna -> -> ->Thank you as well, Clide. :) ->Both of you...i would love to hear more about your hometowns. ->Anna...Sweden ....tell us more! What was it like to grow up in the ->outskirts of Sweden?
Hi!
Wow, staying busy here on the discussion list, hey! Make me sweaty just to read it all :) Well, great, I like it. I'll tell you some about the outskirts of Sweden in a while :)
See you soon :)
Anna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Clide Stillwater <tidestillwater@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:16:58 -0800 (PST)
--- Rhonda <Radhapatma@light-mission.org> wrote:
> > Shar, sweet day to you and All > Hi Clide!!! ..umm is Stillwater your REAL last > name? :)
Well it's better that Skunkbehind ain't it :( There's a Chippewa fella here name Crowfoot, did I ask him "come one, is that your REAL name?".
Thanks for the warm welcome everyone ELSE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:20:59 -0800
> >Ma, sunny day > > Yes it is Rhonda :) Actually it's always a sunny day even > when it's raining or overcast. It's always a sunny day in > the heart.
Yes :)
> >> Well, make the whole whole, simple. Make it a holeless > >> whole. Doing it gets it done. > > > >And so you are absolutely simply genuinely correct. > >There should Never be a hole in the Whole. The whole > >should be whole. Without the clutter there is never any > >gaps > >to leap. Just a continuous movement from moment to moment. > >Thank you. > > You don't need to thank me for telling you that, you already > knew that. I think you know more than you think. I think > you're just being shy :)
I am shy. Everyone knows that. But not if i'm asked for an opinion. And i don't even really 'know you' so why are you picking on me ?? :)
> >And what particular actions am i depriving others of? > You would have to take that inventory. Such things have to > be answered by ourselves to ourselves. We are the one who > knows our inventory. At least we are supposed to know > ourselves. That's why we get into spiritual studies, to know > ourselves and our inventory.
Well, we all do have our own inventory. And 'guilt' comes in when we have not lived up to our own expectations. It's not easy living and breathing the Truth. > >> Chopra, good man, and a wise one. Living simple and > >> frugal > >> leaves you with so much to offer in some direction that > >> would be beneficial to people working to purify > >> themselves > >> spiritually. There is a lot of charity work that can be > >> done > >> but a lot of times that is dumping resources into a > >> bottomless back hole. The most important thing we can do > >> is > >> to use our excess resources, which includes our time, to > >> help people be their 'real self' also. Work with them and > >> support those who do work with them. A lot can be done > >> when > >> you put your heart into it :) > > > >I agree. Excess time seems to be a rarity on most > >occassions, > >though. Days are long and work is physically demanding. > >How > >much is enough to help? If we feel in our heart that we > >are helping > >who is to judge how much is enough? > > Only you can be the judge of that. But it's not really a > judgment. You'll just know. When you know yourself and your > inventory then you'll just know.
Exactly. I know myself. I just Know. And i can lay my guilt trip all over myself when it is needed, as i am sure all other students do on their journey. How else do we learn? We fall. We get up. Our INTENTION on THIS PATH is not generally geared to 'hell'. I don't think that for a moment. We are all working on ourselves and with others the best way we can with the time we have. And, of course, with what is in our hearts to share.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Clide Stillwater <tidestillwater@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:41:56 -0800 (PST)
--- Rhonda <Radhapatma@light-mission.org> wrote:
> > > > Shar, sweet day to you and All > > > Hi Clide!!! ..umm is Stillwater your REAL last > > > name? :) > > > > Well it's better that Skunkbehind ain't it :( > > There's a Chippewa fella here name Crowfoot, did I > ask > > him "come one, is that your REAL name?". > > ohhh Clide! You took that in a nasty way. That > is not the > way it was meant. I meant that 'stillwater' is > such a > beautiful name and 'place to Be' that i wondered if > you > were emphasizing something wonderful. I am sorry > if i seemed like i did not 'believe' you.
I hadn't thought about it much, a name is a name :) Still water can get stagnant so I'd rather be tide water because it's always flowing, that's why I put it in my address :) But at the meetins they say we should be still so still water is ok too :)
> > Thanks for the warm welcome everyone ELSE.
Retracted, thanks for the warm welcome to you too :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About Effort
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:16:55 -0800
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 05:34:12 -0800, you wrote:
->At 08:54 AM 04/03/2006, you wrote: ->>On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:24:26 -0800, you wrote: ->> ->>-> ->>->>Good Morning Shar! -> ->Good morning again, ->I am slow this last couple of days, ->Been a bit busy it seems.
Good Evening Shar, nice to hear from you :)
->>->Other days we do the best we can when the body isn't co-operating. ->>->As long as we can stay focused on what we are doing, we are doing ->>->the best we can. ->> ->>That's true sometimes we don't seem to be able to do much better but many ->>times we don't use our full potential. -> ->I think,( there ya go again) ->that we don't or can't recognize our full potential as it is ->constantly in flux. ->What may be our full potential today, is not what it will be ->tomorrow. As long as we are in learning mode, and clearing mode, ->our full potential is masked through our own veils of conditioning. ->Being told by someone that we can't do this or that. ->Or are crazy to try, and waste our time on things that ->won't work anyway. ->So we begin to second guess ourselves and our possibilities.
True, remember the little ones that just runs out, without hesitating, without wondering if there will be holes to fall in on the way, if they can do it or whatever, just like tha trunning with it, flowing and see where life takes you. Like a seafarer and explorer and adventurer.
->I don't know about others, but when I am told those words, ->you can't, you shouldn't, etc, it's like a challenge or a dare. ->I mean, how dare someone say I can't do something? lol ->I am constantly pushing my own limits. ->Like my unknown source of the fear of heights. -> ->At Xmas time in Vancouver, I forced myself to do ->the Capilano suspension bridge, and the treetop walk. ->The first time was scary, but the second time went off with no problems ->and less shaking of the knees. Still had a bit of -> nerves when looking down from the edges. ->Its a long drop in places. So will still push myself to ->get over that bit. A fence helps. lol -> ->without a fence, I want to fall off. Somehow in my mind, ->it wants to fly like a bird, but the body knows it will ->fall like a ton of bricks instead, and that would be ->a big ow-eee. ->So fear of pain, keeps me from going over or near the edge. ->The knees shake uncontrollably. Its crazy. ->So I stay away from the edges that have no fences.
Yeah, I don't know what that is, that pull of giving in and just fall out. But that's great that you are challenging yourself like that, walking on high places, I wonder, walking on those high places did it help reducing your fear of heights?
->Not from a fear of death, from the fear of pain, lol -> ->>->And yet, you can't keep your eye on the prize. We can't project the future ->>->into ->>->the moment. Plus the little fact, there is no place to go. ->> ->>This is very True, I agree, I wasn't talking about goals and prizes. There ->>doesn't always have to be goals. -> ->I have to disagree with you here just a little bit. ->There is always a goal. ->There is always a reason for what we do. ->If there wasn't, we wouldn't do anything. ->I would agree to the point that sometimes we ->aren't aware of a goal. But there is always a goal ->of some kind lurking in the background. ->Some may call it preparedness. ->Like dishes being done in preparation for the -> next meal, not as an ending to one. ->The goal is preparedness in most cases. ->Mostly its a play on words so the mind can think it ->doesn't have a goal and that we are just doing. ->And we are just doing, just doing what needs to be done ->through the act of preparation. ->The focus however, is not on the prize, but on the act of doing, ->without thought of the future. Awareness of the present, while ->being prepared for the future.
I agree, and what I was saying above was just that there doesn't always have to be a goal and a prize of some personal gain.
->What do you think? ->Think my theory sucks rocks?
Well....do you really want to know?! 8-)
->Let's discuss it...........LOL
Hahaha...I was just thinking here above...what did we start talking about :) but I know it was the effort deal :) It has been a great discussion so far :)
It is nice that there are some activity on the list, and it would be even nicer if there were more people partaking, but perhaps they will come, be drawn in here :)
Be Well All 8-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:03:56 -0800
> > Shar, sweet day to you and All > > Hi Clide!!! ..umm is Stillwater your REAL last > > name? :) > > Well it's better that Skunkbehind ain't it :( > There's a Chippewa fella here name Crowfoot, did I ask > him "come one, is that your REAL name?".
ohhh Clide! You took that in a nasty way. That is not the way it was meant. I meant that 'stillwater' is such a beautiful name and 'place to Be' that i wondered if you were emphasizing something wonderful. I am sorry if i seemed like i did not 'believe' you. > > Thanks for the warm welcome everyone ELSE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:24:29 -0800
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:46:58 -0800, you wrote:
->Thank you as well, Clide. :) ->Both of you...i would love to hear more about your hometowns. ->Anna...Sweden ....tell us more! What was it like to grow up in the ->outskirts of Sweden?
Oh, I grew up in the southeast of Sweden, in a little farming community. So I grew up on a farm too. Lots of play as a child on the fields and in the forests, and helping on the farm, that was a great way of growing up, so close to nature. It was kind of a protected life, life in a sleepy, kind of backward little town. Not knowing much about the world or what really was going on, having dreams of course, but otherwise life evolved around the town and what was going on there. But people were more honest, I don't know how it is now though. I remember a young man that had a passion for agriculture, he cultivated vegetables. A very drifty man. He sold vegetables in a tent by the road, he himself was never there, but people would stop by and take the vegetables they'd like and then put the money in a jar. He would leave some money every morning in the jar in case anyone needed change. Although he finally had to put a box with a lock there because someone had snatched the jar with money too many times. It kind of makes me smile now as I sit here in the outskirts of L.A...
If you wonder anything else just ask, or you can tell where you grew up :))
Anna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 03:20:11 -0800
> >I hadn't thought about it much, a name is a name :) >Still water can get stagnant so I'd rather be tide >water because it's always flowing, that's why I put it >in my address :) But at the meetins they say we should >be still so still water is ok too :)
Well I liked the name too. Stillwater runs deep. Look forward to getting to know you better. Thanks for coming out to play.
Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote..giving
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 06:00:39 -0800
Hi Rhonda, in reply to Ma, you wrote:
>I agree. Excess time seems to be a rarity on most occassions, >though. Days are long and work is physically demanding. How >much is enough to help? If we feel in our heart that we are helping >who is to judge how much is enough?
My take on the giving thing, is as such. Whenever and whatever we can do to help another, is enough. Charity begins at home. Which means, we have to take of our needs (not desires) first. If we are not looking after ourselves, there is never enough to give away. We need to eat, sleep and be healthy enough to have the energy flow through us in the first place. It's not a conceited or ego thing, but a thing about mental, emotional, and physical stability. Without that, intentions usually don't become reality.
There is giving with intent of a payback, or some ego based intent, and there is giving, just because we can and are able. Sometimes we give and don't know we are giving.
Other times, it seems we give and give, and give and give, Until we realize, what we are doing is called co-dependency.
Giving has no limitations and no boundaries. And there are many ways to give. We just what we can do, when we can do it. For me, I find it more fun to do others stuff than my own. lol I am a good volunteer. ha. What I did discover though, was that I can't eat if I don't work for cash. So the volunteer stuff became a secondary lifestyle. Not the lifestyle. Although, if possible, my day would be spend doing things for free.
blah blah blah, she goes on.
Oh my, Gotta run, I have to give my son in law a ride to the airport, then pick up a friend at the shop where his car is getting fixed, then I have to pick up my grand daughter at school at 11:30. and the other one at 3:30. There goes my day. LOL Hmm, giving comes in all forms it seems.
Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 07:23:00 -0800
> > >Oh, I grew up in the southeast of Sweden, in a little farming community.
Interesting, My Mothers Mom was from Sweden. My Mother couldn't speak English until she went to school. But she was born in Saskatchewan, as I was. I forget the name of the place but similar to Yarlsburg or something. No, thats beer. lol Anyway, I think her maiden name was Osling. She married another Swede, but during the time of immigration the last name was changed. And I am not sure what it was before that. I don't think the name Florell is Swedish. I have a piece of mourning jewelry that was five generations ago from Sweden. I am the 6th. And my daughter will be 7th. At that time, there wasn't much they could bring with them. My step Father was also from there. Lindstrom. Common Swedish name. :)
So we have similar roots. They would talk in Swedish when they didn't want us to know their secrets. When I was young I made dad repeat that tongue twister about 77 sea six seaman, in Swedish. Then my kids took over, and then my grandchildren. Everyone would laugh at it. It wasn't easy. :)
Love Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:05:04 -0800
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 07:23:00 -0800, you wrote:
->>Oh, I grew up in the southeast of Sweden, in a little farming community. -> ->Interesting, ->My Mothers Mom was from Sweden. ->My Mother couldn't speak English until she went to school. ->But she was born in Saskatchewan, as I was. ->I forget the name of the place but similar to Yarlsburg or something. ->No, thats beer. lol
Yes, that is beer 8-) You have familiarized with many Swedish things 8-)
->Anyway, I think her maiden name was Osling. ->She married another Swede, but during the time of immigration the last name ->was changed. ->And I am not sure what it was before that. I don't think the name Florell ->is Swedish.
Florell as last name do occur in Sweden.
->I have a piece of mourning jewelry that was five generations ->ago from Sweden. I am the 6th. And my daughter will be 7th. ->At that time, there wasn't much they could bring with them. ->My step Father was also from there. Lindstrom. Common Swedish name. :)
Well, isn't the world small 8-) I always thought that you had some Swedish ancestry though, because of your last name. Oh, yeah many Swedes did emigrate to America back in the days, when there was famine in Sweden and gold here :) As I moved here my grandmother told me of some aunts of my grandfather that emigrated to America, some never heard of again. The emigration to America is part of Swedish history, perhaps your mom's mom was part of that wave to the promised land, land of dreams and all that.
->So we have similar roots. They would talk in Swedish ->when they didn't want us to know their secrets. ->When I was young I made dad repeat that tongue -> twister about 77 sea six seaman, in Swedish. ->Then my kids took over, and then my grandchildren. ->Everyone would laugh at it. It wasn't easy. :)
Ha ha... yeah I know that one, seven seasick seamen sailed the seven seas, it is a real tongue twister :)
->Love ->Shar
Love coming back::::::: 8-)
Anna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:53:30 -0800
> I hadn't thought about it much, a name is a name :) > Still water can get stagnant so I'd rather be tide > water because it's always flowing, that's why I put it > in my address :) But at the meetins they say we should > be still so still water is ok too :) > > > > Thanks for the warm welcome everyone ELSE. > > Retracted, thanks for the warm welcome to you too :)
:) Nice to have you here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:03:47 -0800
On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:13:58 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->> Oh, I grew up in the southeast of Sweden, in a little farming community. So ->> I grew up on a farm too. Lots of play as a child on the fields and in the ->> forests, and helping on the farm, that was a great way of growing up, so ->> close to nature. It was kind of a protected life, life in a sleepy, kind of ->> backward little town. Not knowing much about the world or what really was ->> going on, having dreams of course, but otherwise life evolved around the ->> town and what was going on there. But people were more honest, I don't know ->> how it is now though. I remember a young man that had a passion for ->> agriculture, he cultivated vegetables. A very drifty man. He sold ->> vegetables in a tent by the road, he himself was never there, but people ->> would stop by and take the vegetables they'd like and then put the money in ->> a jar. He would leave some money every morning in the jar in case anyone ->> needed change. Although he finally had to put a box with a lock there ->> because someone had snatched the jar with money too many times. It kind of ->> makes me smile now as I sit here in the outskirts of L.A... ->> ->> If you wonder anything else just ask, or you can tell where you grew up :)) ->> ->> Anna -> ->No. That is perfectly perfect for now. :) -> I did spend my childhood in the country as well, and then on a big river ->with a boat. We are really blessed when we get to glimpse nature so ->head on when we are children.
Yes I think it is a blessing too, to be close to nature as children, and all the time for that matter.
I was to a museum today, in work, and even though the animals there were not alive, I felt how beautiful manifestation is in itself, so serene, so in harmony. A while ago I read a about an expedition to a remote, and never before visited by man, part of the rainforests in Indonesia. What the expedition team was truly amazed by was that the animals they encountered there showed no fear. They were in awe as some rare bird species were performing a mate dance in the middle of their camp.
It is like a calling or reminder, like a connection to that same essential nature, that same silence and serenity, that are so lost in the world of man, like man no longer is part of that.
->Thanks Anna oo ->rhonda
Anytime :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote..giving
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:04:41 -0800
> Hi Rhonda, > in reply to Ma, you wrote: > > >I agree. Excess time seems to be a rarity on most occassions, > >though. Days are long and work is physically demanding. How > >much is enough to help? If we feel in our heart that we are helping > >who is to judge how much is enough? > > My take on the giving thing, is as such. > Whenever and whatever we can do to help another, > is enough. Charity begins at home. > Which means, we have to take of our needs (not desires) > first. If we are not looking after ourselves, > there is never enough to give away. We need to eat, sleep > and be healthy enough to have the energy flow through us in the first place. > It's not a conceited or ego thing, but a thing > about mental, emotional, and physical stability. > Without that, intentions usually don't become reality. > > There is giving with intent of a payback, or some ego based intent, > and there is giving, just because we can and are able. > Sometimes we give and don't know we are giving. > > Other times, it seems we give and give, and give and give, > Until we realize, what we are doing is called co-dependency. > > Giving has no limitations and no boundaries. > And there are many ways to give. > We just what we can do, when we can do it. > For me, I find it more fun to do others stuff than my own. lol > I am a good volunteer. ha. > What I did discover though, was that I can't eat if I don't work for cash. > So the volunteer stuff became a secondary lifestyle. Not the lifestyle. > Although, if possible, my day would be spend doing things for free. > > blah blah blah, she goes on. > > Oh my, Gotta run, > I have to give my son in law a ride to the airport, > then pick up a friend at the shop where his car is getting fixed, > then I have to pick up my grand daughter at school at 11:30. > and the other one at 3:30. There goes my day. LOL > Hmm, giving comes in all forms it seems. > > Shar
That was an incredibly insightful letter. I thank you, very much, for that sharing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:13:58 -0800
> Oh, I grew up in the southeast of Sweden, in a little farming community. So > I grew up on a farm too. Lots of play as a child on the fields and in the > forests, and helping on the farm, that was a great way of growing up, so > close to nature. It was kind of a protected life, life in a sleepy, kind of > backward little town. Not knowing much about the world or what really was > going on, having dreams of course, but otherwise life evolved around the > town and what was going on there. But people were more honest, I don't know > how it is now though. I remember a young man that had a passion for > agriculture, he cultivated vegetables. A very drifty man. He sold > vegetables in a tent by the road, he himself was never there, but people > would stop by and take the vegetables they'd like and then put the money in > a jar. He would leave some money every morning in the jar in case anyone > needed change. Although he finally had to put a box with a lock there > because someone had snatched the jar with money too many times. It kind of > makes me smile now as I sit here in the outskirts of L.A... > > If you wonder anything else just ask, or you can tell where you grew up :)) > > Anna
No. That is perfectly perfect for now. :) I did spend my childhood in the country as well, and then on a big river with a boat. We are really blessed when we get to glimpse nature so head on when we are children.
Thanks Anna oo rhonda
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:13:23 -0800
>> >Ma, sunny day >> >> Yes it is Rhonda :) Actually it's always a sunny day even >> when it's raining or overcast. It's always a sunny day in >> the heart. > >Yes :) > >> >> Well, make the whole whole, simple. Make it a holeless >> >> whole. Doing it gets it done. >> > >> >And so you are absolutely simply genuinely correct. >> >There should Never be a hole in the Whole. The whole >> >should be whole. Without the clutter there is never any >> >gaps >> >to leap. Just a continuous movement from moment to >> >moment. >> >Thank you. >> >> You don't need to thank me for telling you that, you >> already >> knew that. I think you know more than you think. I think >> you're just being shy :) > >I am shy. Everyone knows that. But not if i'm asked for >an >opinion. And i don't even really 'know you' so why are you >picking on me ?? :)
Just an observation :)
>> >And what particular actions am i depriving others of? > >> You would have to take that inventory. Such things have >> to >> be answered by ourselves to ourselves. We are the one who >> knows our inventory. At least we are supposed to know >> ourselves. That's why we get into spiritual studies, to >> know >> ourselves and our inventory. > >Well, we all do have our own inventory. And 'guilt' comes >in >when we have not lived up to our own expectations. It's >not >easy living and breathing the Truth.
It's easy when you're living it but not so easy when you're not. When you are you are and when you're not you're not. Simple.
>> >> Chopra, good man, and a wise one. Living simple and >> >> frugal >> >> leaves you with so much to offer in some direction >> >> that >> >> would be beneficial to people working to purify >> >> themselves >> >> spiritually. There is a lot of charity work that can >> >> be >> >> done >> >> but a lot of times that is dumping resources into a >> >> bottomless back hole. The most important thing we can >> >> do >> >> is >> >> to use our excess resources, which includes our time, >> >> to >> >> help people be their 'real self' also. Work with them >> >> and >> >> support those who do work with them. A lot can be done >> >> when >> >> you put your heart into it :) >> > >> >I agree. Excess time seems to be a rarity on most >> >occassions, >> >though. Days are long and work is physically demanding. >> >How >> >much is enough to help? If we feel in our heart that we >> >are helping >> >who is to judge how much is enough? >> >> Only you can be the judge of that. But it's not really a >> judgment. You'll just know. When you know yourself and >> your >> inventory then you'll just know. > >Exactly. I know myself. I just Know. And i can lay my >guilt trip >all over myself when it is needed, as i am sure all other >students >do on their journey. How else do we learn? We fall. We >get up. >Our INTENTION on THIS PATH is not generally geared to >'hell'. >I don't think that for a moment. We are all working on >ourselves >and with others the best way we can with the time we have. >And, >of course, with what is in our hearts to share.
Oh, another topic. Know yourself. Yes that is good. Usually takes many years of observing and questioning, but a worthwhile undertaking. And when we finally get to know ourselves it turns out to be only what we thought. Just a dream. Which is logical, knowing is thoughts. Well we aren't just thoughts and dreams though. So knowing ourselves is none of that, but rather just 'being'. And 'being' nothing we think. That's 'being' our 'real self', and it's not even known because the mind has nothing to do with it. Then there's a different kind of knowing that arises from this not knowing. More a recognition of 'what is' than an actual knowing. And there isn't any real intention on the path because on the path is just being the path. No path is geared to hell, it's the intentions we have that constitutes the hell. How can personal intentions be part of an impersonal path? Personal intentions tend to be, though may not consciously be, rationalizations for not being the impersonal path. Yes we are all working on it, but how many are working on it so completely that they are impersonal about it?
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:50:55 -0800
>Hello, Ma :)
Hello Rhonda :)
>> Oh, another topic. Know yourself. Yes that is good. >> Usually >> takes many years of observing and questioning, but a >> worthwhile undertaking. And when we finally get to know >> ourselves it turns out to be only what we thought. Just a >> dream. > > Even a nightmare at times.
True :)
>>Which is logical, knowing is thoughts. Well we aren't >> just thoughts and dreams though. So knowing ourselves is >> none of that, but rather just 'being'. And 'being' >> nothing >> we think. That's 'being' our 'real self', and it's not >> even >> known because the mind has nothing to do with it. Then >> there's a different kind of knowing that arises from this >> not knowing. More a recognition of 'what is' than an >> actual >> knowing. > >And so we can all tap into this Recognition of 'what is' by >silencing >the mind chatter and just paying attention to what is >happening right >here and now. But then some drama in our day offers up >something to get overly excited about or sad about or angry >about >and, well everybody ELSE is feeling that way so that is the >way i >should be feeling as well, and then it is all mumbo-jumbo >head >clutter all over again. Along with the fast heart rate, >sweaty >palms, tears and fears.
No drama is in the 'here and now', even though it seems to be happening in the 'here and now'. When you are in the 'here and now' any drama can only be watched and never acted on because the drama is only real to those taking part in the drama. Dramas are never real to those in the 'here and now'. Don't get into someone else's drama and you can stay in the 'here and now'. Just watch and look for a graceful exit :)
>>And there isn't any real intention on the path >> because on the path is just being the path. No path is >> geared to hell, it's the intentions we have that >> constitutes >> the hell. How can personal intentions be part of an >> impersonal path? Personal intentions tend to be, though >> may >> not consciously be, rationalizations for not being the >> impersonal path. > >Thank you. That is a deeply powerful statement. > >>Yes we are all working on it, but how many >> are working on it so completely that they are impersonal >> about it? > >I do not know, but one Wise Sage has told me before... >that it is not nearly enough.
Very wise because if it isn't complete then it isn't enough. Only complete is enough. When only partial then the results will be partial. One foot in heaven and one foot in hell, and straddling that fence gets real uncomfortable :)
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:17:03 -0800
Hello, Ma :)
> Oh, another topic. Know yourself. Yes that is good. Usually > takes many years of observing and questioning, but a > worthwhile undertaking. And when we finally get to know > ourselves it turns out to be only what we thought. Just a > dream.
Even a nightmare at times.
>Which is logical, knowing is thoughts. Well we aren't > just thoughts and dreams though. So knowing ourselves is > none of that, but rather just 'being'. And 'being' nothing > we think. That's 'being' our 'real self', and it's not even > known because the mind has nothing to do with it. Then > there's a different kind of knowing that arises from this > not knowing. More a recognition of 'what is' than an actual > knowing.
And so we can all tap into this Recognition of 'what is' by silencing the mind chatter and just paying attention to what is happening right here and now. But then some drama in our day offers up something to get overly excited about or sad about or angry about and, well everybody ELSE is feeling that way so that is the way i should be feeling as well, and then it is all mumbo-jumbo head clutter all over again. Along with the fast heart rate, sweaty palms, tears and fears.
>And there isn't any real intention on the path > because on the path is just being the path. No path is > geared to hell, it's the intentions we have that constitutes > the hell. How can personal intentions be part of an > impersonal path? Personal intentions tend to be, though may > not consciously be, rationalizations for not being the > impersonal path.
Thank you. That is a deeply powerful statement.
>Yes we are all working on it, but how many > are working on it so completely that they are impersonal > about it?
I do not know, but one Wise Sage has told me before... that it is not nearly enough.
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:29:43 -0800
Ma: > >>Which is logical, knowing is thoughts. Well we aren't > >> just thoughts and dreams though. So knowing ourselves is > >> none of that, but rather just 'being'. And 'being' > >> nothing we think. That's 'being' our 'real self', and it's not > >> even known because the mind has nothing to do with it. Then > >> there's a different kind of knowing that arises from this > >> not knowing. More a recognition of 'what is' than an > >> actual > >> knowing.
rhonda: > >And so we can all tap into this Recognition of 'what is' by > >silencing the mind chatter and just paying attention to what is > >happening right here and now. But then some drama in our day offers up > >something to get overly excited about or sad about or angry about > >and, well everybody ELSE is feeling that way so that is the > >way i should be feeling as well, and then it is all mumbo-jumbo > >head clutter all over again. Along with the fast heart rate, sweaty > >palms, tears and fears.
Ma: > No drama is in the 'here and now', even though it seems to > be happening in the 'here and now'.
It seems that way very much, mostly.
>When you are in the > 'here and now' any drama can only be watched and never acted > on because the drama is only real to those taking part in > the drama. Dramas are never real to those in the 'here and > now'. Don't get into someone else's drama and you can stay > in the 'here and now'. Just watch and look for a graceful > exit :)
Exiting Gracefully is an Art. > >>And there isn't any real intention on the path > >> because on the path is just being the path. No path is > >> geared to hell, it's the intentions we have that > >> constitutes > >> the hell. How can personal intentions be part of an > >> impersonal path? Personal intentions tend to be, though > >> may > >> not consciously be, rationalizations for not being the > >> impersonal path. > > > >Thank you. That is a deeply powerful statement.
I would just like to reiterate that that is a deeply powerful statement.
> >>Yes we are all working on it, but how many > >> are working on it so completely that they are impersonal > >> about it? > > > >I do not know, but one Wise Sage has told me before... > >that it is not nearly enough. > > Very wise because if it isn't complete then it isn't enough. > Only complete is enough. When only partial then the results > will be partial. One foot in heaven and one foot in hell, > and straddling that fence gets real uncomfortable :)
no kidding :)
Is there such a thing as 'completion' in an unending, ever-changing existence?
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:43:26 -0800
Re: About the quote.... Another Quote.... >Ma: >> >>Which is logical, knowing is thoughts. Well we aren't >> >> just thoughts and dreams though. So knowing ourselves >> >> is >> >> none of that, but rather just 'being'. And 'being' >> >> nothing we think. That's 'being' our 'real self', and >> >> it's not > > >> even known because the mind has nothing to do with > > >> it. Then >> >> there's a different kind of knowing that arises from >> >> this >> >> not knowing. More a recognition of 'what is' than an >> >> actual >> >> knowing. > >rhonda: >> >And so we can all tap into this Recognition of 'what is' >> >by >> >silencing the mind chatter and just paying attention to >> >what is >> >happening right here and now. But then some drama in >> >our day offers up >> >something to get overly excited about or sad about or >> >angry about >> >and, well everybody ELSE is feeling that way so that is >> >the >> >way i should be feeling as well, and then it is all >> >mumbo-jumbo >> >head clutter all over again. Along with the fast heart >> >rate, sweaty >> >palms, tears and fears. > >Ma: >> No drama is in the 'here and now', even though it seems >> to >> be happening in the 'here and now'. > >It seems that way very much, mostly.
Good :)
>>When you are in the >> 'here and now' any drama can only be watched and never >> acted >> on because the drama is only real to those taking part in >> the drama. Dramas are never real to those in the 'here >> and >> now'. Don't get into someone else's drama and you can >> stay >> in the 'here and now'. Just watch and look for a graceful >> exit :) > >Exiting Gracefully is an Art.
Indeed :)
>> >>And there isn't any real intention on the path >> >> because on the path is just being the path. No path is >> >> geared to hell, it's the intentions we have that >> >> constitutes >> >> the hell. How can personal intentions be part of an >> >> impersonal path? Personal intentions tend to be, >> >> though >> >> may >> >> not consciously be, rationalizations for not being the >> >> impersonal path. >> > >> >Thank you. That is a deeply powerful statement. > >I would just like to reiterate that that is a deeply >powerful >statement. > >> >>Yes we are all working on it, but how many >> >> are working on it so completely that they are >> >> impersonal >> >> about it? >> > >> >I do not know, but one Wise Sage has told me before... >> >that it is not nearly enough. >> >> Very wise because if it isn't complete then it isn't >> enough. >> Only complete is enough. When only partial then the >> results >> will be partial. One foot in heaven and one foot in hell, >> and straddling that fence gets real uncomfortable :) > >no kidding :)
No, no kidding :)
>Is there such a thing as 'completion' in an unending, >ever-changing existence?
There is no end to the path, it goes all the way to eternity and beyond. But we must be 'completely' absorbed in it. Complete is total. And we can live a normal everyday life while completely absorbed in the path. Totally absorbed in the path just means that is our trajectory and inclination and even momentum. All else is something like everyone else. Most seem to think you turn into some skinhead with a robe. I don't think so. You'd be surprised where the sages hang out :)
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:33:40 -0800
> I was to a museum today, in work, and even though the animals there were > not alive, I felt how beautiful manifestation is in itself, so serene, so > in harmony. > A while ago I read a about an expedition to a remote, and never before > visited by man, part of the rainforests in Indonesia. What the expedition > team was truly amazed by was that the animals they encountered there showed > no fear. They were in awe as some rare bird species were performing a mate > dance in the middle of their camp. > > It is like a calling or reminder, like a connection to that same essential > nature, that same silence and serenity, that are so lost in the world of > man, like man no longer is part of that.
No inhibitions! Free as a bird...
Thank you for that picture in my minds eye. :)
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:38:31 -0800
> There is no end to the path, it goes all the way to eternity > and beyond. But we must be 'completely' absorbed in it. > Complete is total. And we can live a normal everyday life > while completely absorbed in the path. Totally absorbed in > the path just means that is our trajectory and inclination > and even momentum. All else is something like everyone else.
As Van says..."you gotta fight every day to keep mediocrity at bay"
> Most seem to think you turn into some skinhead with a robe. > I don't think so. You'd be surprised where the sages hang > out :)
uh-oh That makes me curious. The last time i was curious... oh never mind. :)
Thank you, Ma.
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 05:48:04 -0800
> >Good morning :)
Yo, I am so far behind with posts, I think I am ahead. But what the hey. I am sitting here now. :) Made my coffee a little strong this morning, yikes. Should be dancing around here soon.
Did you know? That the darker the roast, the less caffeine? So much for that espresso hit. And a can of Mountain Dew has more caffeine than coke, pepsi or coffee. Shiny coffee beans means the natural oil is leaking out So the flavor isn't as good as it should be. . . Never keep coffee in the fridge or freezer. Keep it in a airlock jar and in a cool dark place. . Thats my morning tidbit as I sit with my cup of morning coffee, med roast, for a mild hit. :) I have three cups a day, and they gotta be good. And on second thought, did you know that coffee is good for people with asthma? And on the medical side, a limit of five cups per day before the harm over rides the benefits.
Now should I go on to the water thing and most people over hydrating themselves and the rise of kidney problems? I did some research on dehydration a few days ago. In this weather everyone is dried out, itchy skin and thirsty. Some are even getting rashes. Water alone does not prevent dehydration. You benefit more from adding electrolytes to the water. In the form of fruit juice, club soda. a dash of salt, anything to break the surface tension. People will find that they benefit more from what they drink, and actually need to drink less. It's not 8 glasses of water per day, it is 8 glasses of fluid a day. More than that can be harmful to your health. Coffee doesn't count, it can be dehydrating without adding electrolytes. Man, I must lead a boring life. :)
Anyway, in late reply, Hi Rhonda,
>Well, no, we don't have any choice, that's true...at least not with what >is physically happening at the moment. The choice only comes in >when we do the correct things.
I was thinking that this to has its own contradictions. Although there is no choice, as far as choices go, I wonder about the theory about it being your time or not. If this was some sort of prearranged before birth thing, or if this is an act of the true self along the path we call life, or totally accidentally in the moment that is.
And its great to sit and say, to live within the moment that is, and you know when you don't or aren't. Things don't flow so smoothly when we don't.
And when we say, live in the moment, but prepare for the future. What future are we preparing for?
There has to be a goal and a form of completion to everything. We live a life of small endings and beginnings. There is no choice in that. It is a part of life. We need goals to have purpose. We need endings to provide new beginnings. That is the flow of existence.
If it wasn't for personal or ego gain, be it security, as in a home, money in the bank, toys, retirement, would the world these days need double income?
Would people need to spend 10 hours a day labouring for cash instead of labouring for the love of giving and sharing? If we didn't want more than we need, could we not have more free time to do the things we intendon doing, instead of doing what we need to do to provide ourselves with things we don't need to be comfortable, warm, fed, and clothed?
Do most work towards an image, or a goal from fear of looking like failures, or from some other ego trip in the eyes of society? Are we afraid of starvation? Freezing to death? Or being nekked?
What is this drive we have to succeed? To get ahead in life? To collect more things and as Ma says, to clutter up our life?
I keep having these thoughts each time I get the urge to purge. I go through the stuff I have, and decide what to toss and what to keep. And all the things I have collected for a rainy day. Things I want to do, or wanted to do. Unfinished projects and the likes. And in all honesty, its all based in fear. Everything I have, and everything I have collected is from a form of fear. I justified it as being from a point of preparedness. But wait! I was wrong. No way! Not possible I am never wrong, only mistaken. :)
I go through all the crafting stuff I have. And realize that life has changed. I am no longer interested in doing those things. So out they go. Each one is a ponder first though. Each one is held, looked at, and thought about it first. But out they go, sort of. lol
I have narrowed my ceramic paints down, getting rid of at least 100 bottles plus. And still have almost that many that I find hard to get rid of. And justify the keeping of those as being basic colours, metallics, and outdoor projects still wanting to be done. So maybe by fall garage season, those will go too. Ya never know. Purging isn't easy. But once I realized it was collecting from a fear of not having anything to do, or work with, it became a little easier. The fear is based on the lack of funds to replace this stuff if I ever wanted too or needed to. I have this strong creative side within that likes to be used and babied from time to time. It's all a form of meditation for me. A focus. The more I give it credence, the more creative I become.
And its all small time stuff. Not for fame or glory. But for feeding a part of who I am. It offers me a form of focus and mindlessness. The hands move without thought. Things flow together. There is no goal other than seeing what the finished project is. Then I give it away. Out of my life and out of my mind. So I ask myself, why bother doing it in the first place? lol
Its all a form of giving. In giving to myself, I can give to others. Let them collect the stuff. ha Anyway, back to the purge.
And the books. Well, that was easy. I did keep some favorites. And some I haven't read. And probably won't, true be known.
And the truth about some of those books, they were tools. They got through the course I took. They allowed me to do the thesis I needed to do. They gave more tools to work with, things to ponder, and then became objects to dust and pack around. So their life of giving to me was over. They took more from me than they gave by hanging around. So many of them went to hospice. Alternative religions etc. I thought perhaps dealing with many different people, that they would learn more about who they were dealing with. And perhaps how to gear their visits and understanding more in focus to their clients. I also gave them many self help books. In aid in the understanding of how to help people help themselves. And with many new people always joining the society, many more would benefit from them, than would sitting on my self. Some went to drug and alcohol for their clients to read and borrow. I had a few on addictions and understanding addictions. Some self help ones as well. Geared to that particular dis-ease. Some were put in a garage sale, to help hospice raise money for staying open and active in the community. None were wasted in the purging. And the gift of giving, goes on to benefit even those we will never meet or know.
You know, the ripple on the pond effect.
Who would have had the benefit of those books, if I had kept them? I wasn't going to reread them thats for sure. And decided that keeping them for the future was futile. Books seem to appear as we need them. A surprise book will arrive in the mail from someone now and then. And I'll read it. Ponder it, and some I keep. I keep all light-mission books. They are always fresh and new each time I open a page. I love the poetry one. And the points to ponder ones. It doesn't grow old. I also kept the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. And the Essential set of various beliefs. Plus the herb ones, and the craft ones. So not book free, just clutter free.
And the purging continues. ah such a life. I am in between painting jobs, babysitting for a week during the day, so using the time at home to clear mind, body and clutter.
And it will give me cash to buy new tires. So all is well.
Gotta go, Sorry for the long ramble. Not even sure it was on base with the whole original post, come to think about it. LOL Love Shar
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: "E.J." <ejLight@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:59:34 -0800
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 05:48:04 -0800, Sharlene wrote:
Thank you for sharing all this Sharlene, very helpful.
->and some I keep. I keep all light-mission books. ->They are always fresh and new each time I open a page. ->I love the poetry one. And the points to ponder ones. ->It doesn't grow old.
Precisely, worth their weight in gold, Secrets to the Holy Grail {8-) Which reminds me, "Songs From The Heart" will be available soon, 4 to 6 weeks, it is at the printers as we speak, another wonderful poetry book from Light Mission. The second hard cover poetry book, full of inspirational and devotional and even love poems. Available at www.Wisdom-BookShelf.com soon.
->Gotta go, ->Sorry for the long ramble. ->Not even sure it was on base with the whole original ->post, come to think about it. LOL
Thank you for rambling, it seems it touches upon all posts {8-)
->Love ->Shar
BE Well and Mindful Wonderful Friend, Shanti, Namaste, Metta
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:05:57 -0800
Hey Shar :)
> Yo, I am so far behind with posts, I think I am ahead. > But what the hey. I am sitting here now. :) > Made my coffee a little strong this morning, yikes. > Should be dancing around here soon.
Quite honestly i think i should need that full quota of five cups of coffee if i am to answer all of your questions here. :)
That will have to wait.) But i would like to address what you shared about books and how you dispersed of them...all of the effort that you put into putting them into a 'proper home' ..so to speak. I think that's really cool. I am sure many, many people benefited from that forethought.
And another thing is that i recognized that i jumped in by saying to you that i would never get rid of my books. And since that day, every time i am in the garage, i look towards the closet that has been holding umpteen boxes of books that i have been saving in case i should ever be able to open up a bookstore. But just today, after i read your letter, i realized that it is time to let them go and if and when i should open my bookstore the proper books in their proper way will arrive. So thank you for that. I have a WHOLE NEW BIG CLOSET Thanks To You! hahaha
talk back with ya soon rhonda
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:00:29 -0800
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:05:57 -0800, you wrote:
->Hey Shar :) -> ->> Yo, I am so far behind with posts, I think I am ahead. ->> But what the hey. I am sitting here now. :) ->> Made my coffee a little strong this morning, yikes. ->> Should be dancing around here soon. -> ->Quite honestly i think i should need that full quota ->of five cups of coffee if i am to answer all of your ->questions here. :) -> ->That will have to wait.) ->But i would like to address what you shared about ->books and how you dispersed of them...all of the effort ->that you put into putting them into a 'proper home' ..so to speak. ->I think that's really cool. I am sure many, many people benefited ->from that forethought. -> ->And another thing is that i recognized that i jumped in by saying ->to you that i would never get rid of my books. And since that day, ->every time i am in the garage, i look towards the closet that has ->been holding umpteen boxes of books that i have been saving in ->case i should ever be able to open up a bookstore. But just today, ->after i read your letter, i realized that it is time to let them go and if ->and when i should open my bookstore the proper books in their ->proper way will arrive. So thank you for that. I have a WHOLE ->NEW BIG CLOSET Thanks To You! hahaha -> ->talk back with ya soon ->rhonda
Hi :)
Yes the world is very 'thingy' and so are people. I used to hamster things too, in the thinking that it might come to use one day. Like you wrote, Sharlene, about your craft things, I too used to hold onto craft things, in case I might get inspired and do something with it. But in the end it just took up too much space. When I left for U.S.A I got rid of everything. There is nothing wrong in having things (if you have the space for it) per se, but when we cling to things and when we need to have things, putting some other importance and meaning in them than there is, it becomes a burden and a distraction.
Free as a bird and not attached to anything of this realm.
Fly Free Anna
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:08:50 -0800
>Hey Shar :) >Quite honestly i think i should need that full quota >of five cups of coffee if i am to answer all of your >questions here. :)
Ha ha ha, I didn't think there were that many. And in a ramble, usually they are triggered by a writer, not aimed at one. So don't feel its up to you to reply to everything I say. Wouldn't want you to feel guilty. It's just stuff thrown out there. And if someone grabs on to one, so be it. And if no one does, thats okay too.
>And another thing is that i recognized that i jumped in by saying >to you that i would never get rid of my books. But just today, >after i read your letter, i realized that it is time to let them go and if >and when i should open my bookstore the proper books in their >proper way will arrive.
I had thoughts like that at one time too. Realizing it was just a passing fancy for me. One of those dreams you have in sharing what you learned with others. Trying to spread the word without them having to pay through the nose for the information. Mine however was to be a lending library. The time and place never appeared and it began to feel like an albatross around my neck instead.
> So thank you for that. I have a WHOLE >NEW BIG CLOSET Thanks To You! hahaha
Oh yea. ! Good on ya.
This place of mine is very small. And the paradox is. The room that is cluttered, is the craft room. And to make more room for doing things, I have to get rid of the things I wanted, at one point to do. So know the things I am not going to do, has eased the load.
I keep the ear candle making stuff, I had a couple of things specially made for me, and will get going at that again soon. Hopefully will sell some at the farmers market. Along with information and instructions. They are no longer available in the north so there may be a small market for them. My neighbour has a booth and said she would handle anything I give her to sell. So that alone is a blessing. She likes that, I don't.
So today is getting more boxes. Its after moving day for most, so there should be some available now. Do the spring, new start cleaning. Get ready for being outside, warm weather and some of the spring painting jobs coming up. Not mine but for others. I will eat again. :)
Happy days are always upon us. Shar
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:25 -0800
> Hi :)
Hi Anna :)))
> Yes the world is very 'thingy' and so are people.
Yep. Lots and lots and LOTS of things.
> I used to hamster things too, in the thinking that it might come to use one > day. Like you wrote, Sharlene, about your craft things, I too used to hold > onto craft things, in case I might get inspired and do something with it. > But in the end it just took up too much space. When I left for U.S.A I got > rid of everything. > There is nothing wrong in having things (if you have the space for it) per > se,
Yes. Having 'things' isn't the issue.
>but when we cling to things and when we need to have things, putting > some other importance and meaning in them than there is, it becomes a > burden and a distraction.
Things quite often become more important than people, to some. How scary is that?
> Free as a bird and not attached to anything of this realm. > > Fly Free > Anna
Fly, sweetie! Fly Free! It's a very pretty Sight. :)
Love, rhonda
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:23:30 -0800
On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:25 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->> Hi :) -> ->Hi Anna :)))
Three smiles, not bad !! 8-)
->> Yes the world is very 'thingy' and so are people. -> ->Yep. Lots and lots and LOTS of things. -> ->> I used to hamster things too, in the thinking that it might come to use one ->> day. Like you wrote, Sharlene, about your craft things, I too used to hold ->> onto craft things, in case I might get inspired and do something with it. ->> But in the end it just took up too much space. When I left for U.S.A I got ->> rid of everything. ->> There is nothing wrong in having things (if you have the space for it) per ->> se, -> ->Yes. Having 'things' isn't the issue. -> ->>but when we cling to things and when we need to have things, putting ->> some other importance and meaning in them than there is, it becomes a ->> burden and a distraction. -> ->Things quite often become more important than people, to some. ->How scary is that?
Yes, that IS too scary and a sad commentary on the state of Humanity. It is a strange place if you start to look around.
->> Free as a bird and not attached to anything of this realm. ->> ->> Fly Free ->> Anna -> ->Fly, sweetie! Fly Free! It's a very pretty Sight. :)
*Smile* Free and peaceful. It struck me today that the world and people are almost constantly in some sort of stress, only when you do not get sucked into the world and the dramas can there be peace, or at least that is my observation. So you have to take a step out from the world, figuratively speaking, not participate in the dramas. Being IN the world but not OF the world, as Jesus said. Because you don't have to be part of the dramas, I would even say it is necessary not to be. Always resting within yourself, at peace. And you can still be very much IN it and engaged in whatever you are doing. Well that was the thought of the day :)
->Love, rhonda
Love to you 8-)))
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Subject: Re: About the quote.... Another Quote....
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:57:02 -0800
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:43:26 -0800, you wrote:
->Most seem to think you turn into some skinhead with a robe. ->I don't think so. You'd be surprised where the sages hang ->out :)
Hahaha... yeah That seem strangely enough to be a common belief. That you will zoom away out in outer space, that that is what you will become as awake, zoom away and in some strange way stop to exist. That must be a myth, a dream, right, hahaha. I know I Thought so, observe thought, because there are a lot of dreams about awakening, conditioned meaning projected into things. Well, I don't think anymore that one is going to throw oneself out the window and become something else. Rather that we Are already what we Are it is just that we have forgotten this, we do not recognize this because we are too stuck in the conditionings, too stuck in the conditioned way of seeing things. It is like we have been lead away from what we Are and now we have forgotten that we ever were lead away, that there ever was a way, we think this is it. The way things are is what is.
I see the ordinariness in my own Teacher and the Reality of his ordinariness. I know he has wings but he refuse to show them, and I know when he walks he is an inch from the floor and when I tell him I see a halo above his head he tells me to go and see an optometrist 8-)
Anna
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Subject: Lighten Up :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:57:12 -0800
hi all :)
I heard a sentence yesterday that stopped me dead in my tracks:
"The human lifespan is but a weigh-station for consciousness along the journey."
I found this very deep. Is the goal is to weigh Less at each station. :) Lighten the consciousness ?
rhonda
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Subject: Waterfalls.. From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org> wrote:
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:15:25 -0800
Sweet day, everybody :)
I just wanted to touch on one topic that Shar previously brought up....how much fluid, water, other fluids the body may need.
I don't have statistics to back any of this up, but i remember one time when i was about twelve or thirteen and going through the pimply stage and my brother was teasing me. I heard a 'voice' tell me that if i drank a good amount of water instead of pop and chocolate milk and such..that i would lose the pimples. And i followed that advice and the pimples soon were gone. I feel very deeply that water pushes toxins out of the body.
Releasing toxins is wonderful. It's cleansing. And so i feel that we should drink water whenever we are thirsty for it...no matter what the general rule. And most especially we should have it close at hand....on the nightstand, working in the hot sun, doing a lot of physical labour..
That's all. :)
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org> wrote:
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:15:30 -0800
> *Smile* Free and peaceful. It struck me today that the world and people > are almost constantly in some sort of stress, only when you do not get > sucked into the world and the dramas can there be peace, or at least that > is my observation. So you have to take a step out from the world, > figuratively speaking, not participate in the dramas. Being IN the world > but not OF the world, as Jesus said. Because you don't have to be part of > the dramas, I would even say it is necessary not to be. Always resting > within yourself, at peace. And you can still be very much IN it and engaged > in whatever you are doing. Well that was the thought of the day :)
Thank you, Anna. It is very close to what Ma said.. "How can personal intentions be part of an impersonal path? Personal intentions tend to be, though may not consciously be, rationalizations for not being the impersonal path."
I find that statement so incredulous. And one might say...well how can we be impersonal and yet still be loving and compassionate. But by being 'impersonal' it is actually ALLOWING our love and compassion to flow freely. By not getting caught up in 'drama', as you say, we are able to see things more clearly and 'take a back seat' to the personal issues.
I have always pondered...well why was i born a 'person' if i'm not allowed to take things 'personally'. But this is where we have forgotten our spirit. We have delved so deeply into the world of form that we have neglected our very own spirit which is our True Nature. Our thoughts have zeroed in on form and form alone. And even if we do consider the great sages, we separate them as not one of us. They are 'better'. It's a crux.
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Subject: RE: Lighten Up :)
From: "R. Edge" <redgender@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:13:38 -0500
>hi all :) > >I heard a sentence yesterday that stopped me dead in my tracks: > >"The human lifespan is but a weigh-station for consciousness >along the journey." > >I found this very deep. Is the goal is to weigh Less at each >station. :) Lighten the consciousness ? > >rhonda >
If that's the case I won't be back again, because I don't weigh anything now :)
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Subject: RE: Lighten Up :)
From: Clide Stillwater <tidestillwater@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:52:40 -0800 (PST)
--- "R. Edge" <redgender@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >hi all :) > > > >I heard a sentence yesterday that stopped me dead > in my tracks: > > > >"The human lifespan is but a weigh-station for > consciousness > >along the journey." > > > >I found this very deep. Is the goal is to weigh > Less at each > >station. :) Lighten the consciousness ? > > > >rhonda > > > > If that's the case I won't be back again, because I > don't weigh anything now > :)
You, I can even walk out in the rain and not get wet :) I don't even weigh, let alone 'anything' :)
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:19:50 -0800
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:33:28 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->> *Smile* Free and peaceful. It struck me today that the world and people ->> are almost constantly in some sort of stress, only when you do not get ->> sucked into the world and the dramas can there be peace, or at least that ->> is my observation. So you have to take a step out from the world, ->> figuratively speaking, not participate in the dramas. Being IN the world ->> but not OF the world, as Jesus said. Because you don't have to be part of ->> the dramas, I would even say it is necessary not to be. Always resting ->> within yourself, at peace. And you can still be very much IN it and engaged ->> in whatever you are doing. Well that was the thought of the day :) -> ->Thank you, Anna. ->It is very close to what Ma said.. ->"How can personal intentions be part of an impersonal path? ->Personal intentions tend to be, though may not consciously be, ->rationalizations for not being the impersonal path." -> ->I find that statement so incredulous.
Yes, I agree.
-> And one might say...well how can ->we be impersonal and yet still be loving and compassionate. But by ->being 'impersonal' it is actually ALLOWING our love and compassion ->to flow freely. By not getting caught up in 'drama', as you say, we are ->able to see things more clearly and 'take a back seat' to the personal ->issues.
Right, being personal will always be directed to something and there will be someone doing it. Being impersonal is BEing Love and Compassion, at least that is my understanding, without direction and not by someone.
->I have always pondered...well why was i born a 'person' if i'm not allowed ->to take things 'personally'.
A person takes things personally but were you born a person? What if you weren't born a person, what if you were conditioned by the world around you to be a person, to be a somebody. Have you ever questioned this or is it something just taken for granted, everyone is a person. Jesus said, we have to be as little children, why did he say that, what did he mean by that? Did he mean that we have to get back to the state we were in when we first came into manifestation, that that is our natural state of Being, is that what he is pointing to? Are little children persons, are the newborns someone or are they just BEing? And it is important to look at these little ones, because they are the clues right in front of our eyes. What we were before we were conditioned. The psychology book says that at the age of two the child start to form a me, and separate from the mother, why does the child start to form a sense of me, what is before the age of two, what is no me, does the psychology book say anything about that? Is it so that 'personal self', me, as a separate entity, is something contrived rather than the natural state?
->But this is where we have forgotten our spirit. ->We have delved so deeply into the world of form that we have neglected ->our very own spirit which is our True Nature. Our thoughts have zeroed in ->on form and form alone.
A very shallow life, and very, very far from any real connection with anything.
-> And even if we do consider the great sages, we ->separate them as not one of us. They are 'better'. It's a crux.
Yes, that is such the misbelief that I encounter in myself time and time again. The distorted belief that Awakening is not something 'of this world', or that the great sages are not just ordinary people but people with extraordinary abilities that then when Awakened turn into something very mystical and not part 'of this'. So how can we ever aspire work on ourselves, when we put what we are aspiring outside of ourselves. But that is because we project our own conditioned meaning into it, instead of allowing the meaning to reveal itself to us. And so we make objects out of the great sages, so that they will fit into our conditioned world. It make me think of that Zen story from the Newsletter not to mistake the messenger for the message. The importance is not the messenger but the message.
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Subject: RE: Lighten Up :)
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:58:35 -0800
>>I found this very deep. Is the goal is to weigh Less at each >>station. :) Lighten the consciousness ? >>rhonda >If that's the case I won't be back again, because I don't weigh anything >now :)
Yes, I know how that is, one told once I could play hide and seek behind a telephone pole and no one could find me. Wonder what they meant by that? LOL
Shar
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Subject: Re: on NDE/Rhonda
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:00:20 -0800
>On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:33:28 -0800, you wrote: > >->I have always pondered...well why was i born a 'person' >if i'm not allowed >->to take things 'personally'. > >A person takes things personally but were you born a >person? >What if you weren't born a person, what if you were >conditioned by the >world around you to be a person, to be a somebody. >Have you ever questioned this or is it something just taken >for granted, >everyone is a person. >Jesus said, we have to be as little children, why did he >say that, what did >he mean by that? Did he mean that we have to get back to >the state we were >in when we first came into manifestation, that that is our >natural state of >Being, is that what he is pointing to? >Are little children persons, are the newborns someone or >are they just >BEing? And it is important to look at these little ones, >because they are >the clues right in front of our eyes. What we were before >we were >conditioned. The psychology book says that at the age of >two the child >start to form a me, and separate from the mother, why does >the child start >to form a sense of me, what is before the age of two, what >is no me, does >the psychology book say anything about that? >Is it so that 'personal self', me, as a separate entity, is >something >contrived rather than the natural state?
There it is. The jewel in the net. Annihilate 'self' but how do you annihilate how you are born. Starting out with the fallacy that 'self' is inborn so it can not be annihilated. One fallacy leads to the other so 'self' remains alive and well. You are born with a shiny mirror, a blank slate, and that is what you study and practice to get back to. Simple. If more people would realize this they wouldn't have such a problem with getting to a selfless state. That is where 'real self' is, that self-less state. Good discussion Rhonda and Anna, keep it up :) And anyone else with something to add :)
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:16:12 -0800
> > If that's the case I won't be back again, because I > > don't weigh anything now > > :) > > You, I can even walk out in the rain and not get wet > :) I don't even weigh, let alone 'anything' :)
*grin* okay, okay.....is everybody done bragging about their slim builds now? :)
>"The human lifespan is but a weigh-station for consciousness along the journey."
I could be wrong but i rather took it as meaning the crap and clutter in our MINDS, in our consciousness, that we cling to and will not drop although they are heavy and burdensome. It just occurs to me something else i heard a while ago....about when we die and how nothing really changes except our physical form. We ARE still who we ARE. So the work continues, and back we come to lighten up that consciousness, relieve it of all that it carries with it so that it may just Do As it Does with nothing attached. It seems impossible until you touch on it with Experience, and then you are hooked, knowing that is what Bliss Is.
That is just a gut feeling about the statement. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:39:08 -0800
>> > If that's the case I won't be back again, because I >> > don't weigh anything now >> > :) >> >> You, I can even walk out in the rain and not get wet >> :) I don't even weigh, let alone 'anything' :) > > >*grin* >okay, okay.....is everybody done bragging about their >slim builds now? :) > >>"The human lifespan is but a weigh-station for >>consciousness >along the journey." > >I could be wrong but i rather took it as meaning the crap >and >clutter in our MINDS, in our consciousness, that we cling >to and >will not drop although they are heavy and burdensome. It >just >occurs to me something else i heard a while ago....about >when >we die and how nothing really changes except our physical >form. >We ARE still who we ARE. So the work continues, and back >we >come to lighten up that consciousness, relieve it of all >that it carries >with it so that it may just Do As it Does with nothing >attached. >It seems impossible until you touch on it with Experience, >and then >you are hooked, knowing that is what Bliss Is. > >That is just a gut feeling about the statement. :)
Well, I would say that the quote points to our impermanence, that we just stop off here in physical form for a short while. So don't pick up anything because you can't take it with you when you leave. The 'heavy burden' is what we pick up here that doesn't go with us. What we came with is the only thing that we will have when we leave but we won't have what we picked up here. We aren't here to drop anything off because whatever we pick up is only while we are here. We start out here with nothing and then a bunch of stuff is given to us so we carry it around that eventually we have to drop off so we can do whatever it is that we are here for. We aren't here to drop off anything, we are here to continue what we started a long long time ago long before we got here. Bliss is simple. Bliss is not having anything more to drop off that we have picked up while here.
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:19:03 -0800
Ma wrote:
> We aren't here to drop off anything, we are here to continue > what we started a long long time ago long before we got > here.
May i please ask....what was that?
> Bliss is simple. Bliss is not having anything more to > drop off that we have picked up while here.
It's work AND effort...because we gather much before we realize that it needs to be discarded.
Thank you very much.
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:29:51 -0800
Good morning
>We >->start out here with nothing and then a bunch of stuff is >->given to us so we carry it around that eventually we have to >->drop off so we can do whatever it is that we are here for.
Now, I am really not sure about this statement. For argument sake, and the theory of evolution and past (parallel lives) is this really true? Are we not born into situations and positions that we are meant to be in? Like the no choice thing?
If life is no choice, and we do not have freedom of choice, then why are we born in the first place? Then who in the heck put us here and for what reason? What's it all about Elfie?
And who was it that defined bliss and enlightenment? When neither one exist? And whats the point of the path, a path or the pathless path? How can we know bliss, unless we know suffering? How can we know love without knowing hate?
We may not know where and why are we are going, but we have to know where we have been. We need to experience it all, we need to live on both sides of the spectrum at some point. We were meant to be conditioned by the outside world. How else do we learn, and how else can we teach? Experience is the best of both.
We can't experience everything in one life time. Be in linear or parallel.
We learn what we have to learn, then we learn to forget what we learned. Its a spiral.
And I hope that I presented a good argument. Haven't had one for along time. LOL
Shar
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:55:17 -0800
>Ma wrote: > >> We aren't here to drop off anything, we are here to >> continue >> what we started a long long time ago long before we got >> here. > >May i please ask....what was that?
If you have to ask... maybe you can't afford it :) A long long time ago long before you got here you started your non-physical development. You were here before you got here this time. Maybe it was so good you re-visited :)
>> Bliss is simple. Bliss is not having anything more to >> drop off that we have picked up while here. > >It's work AND effort...because we gather much before we >realize >that it needs to be discarded.
Yes it's work and effort, 'right effort' as the Buddha said. The work and effort is getting rid of the stuff you shouldn't have gathered up in the first place after you got here. You didn't have it when you got here so you must have picked it up afterwards. Because you are right, we gather far more than anyone could ever need in a hundred lifetimes. Have you ever sat and watched a humming bird dart around, just because it was darting around? Have you ever watched a leaf fall from a tree or bush, just because it was falling? Have you ever watched a fish swim about in a river, just because it was swimming around? Have you ever watched the clouds move in the sky, just because they were moving? Have you ever lifted a bowl of water up to someone's lips, just because they were thirsty? Have you ever held one's had, just because they needed comforting? Have you ever set up some sort of shelter away from where you live, just because you knew that eventually someone would need it? Gather all that and you won't have anything to discard.
>Thank you very much.
Well thank you too :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:11:36 -0800
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:39:08 -0800, you wrote:
->>> > If that's the case I won't be back again, because I ->>> > don't weigh anything now ->>> > :) ->>> ->>> You, I can even walk out in the rain and not get wet ->>> :) I don't even weigh, let alone 'anything' :) ->> ->> ->>*grin* ->>okay, okay.....is everybody done bragging about their ->>slim builds now? :) ->> ->>>"The human lifespan is but a weigh-station for ->>>consciousness ->>along the journey." ->> ->>I could be wrong but i rather took it as meaning the crap ->>and ->>clutter in our MINDS, in our consciousness, that we cling ->>to and ->>will not drop although they are heavy and burdensome. It ->>just ->>occurs to me something else i heard a while ago....about ->>when ->>we die and how nothing really changes except our physical ->>form. ->>We ARE still who we ARE. So the work continues, and back ->>we ->>come to lighten up that consciousness, relieve it of all ->>that it carries ->>with it so that it may just Do As it Does with nothing ->>attached. ->>It seems impossible until you touch on it with Experience, ->>and then ->>you are hooked, knowing that is what Bliss Is. ->> ->>That is just a gut feeling about the statement. :) -> ->Well, I would say that the quote points to our impermanence, ->that we just stop off here in physical form for a short ->while. So don't pick up anything because you can't take it ->with you when you leave. The 'heavy burden' is what we pick ->up here that doesn't go with us. What we came with is the ->only thing that we will have when we leave but we won't have ->what we picked up here. We aren't here to drop anything off ->because whatever we pick up is only while we are here. We ->start out here with nothing and then a bunch of stuff is ->given to us so we carry it around that eventually we have to ->drop off so we can do whatever it is that we are here for. ->We aren't here to drop off anything, we are here to continue ->what we started a long long time ago long before we got ->here. Bliss is simple. Bliss is not having anything more to ->drop off that we have picked up while here.
So we came here blank, clear, nothing added, and that is how it is supposed to be while we are here, and that is how we leave. Like the newborns, they are a clean slate, an empty mirror, but as time goes on and as they get immersed in the world the mirror is no longer empty, the slate is no longer clean, it is cluttered. Work on ourselves is emptying the cluttered mirror, letting go of that which has been added, so we can be what we are, what we naturally are before all the additions, the added baggage, was taken on. So, this, the world, what we know of, is not All there is. Amazing, it is in a way like the old fairy tales. You just have to go and look, search, and search sincerely and you'll see through the illusions. Seek and ye shall find.
I am enjoying the discussion list a lot, thank ya'll 8-) It is bringing me lots of clarity.
Hug everybody }}}}
Anna
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:28:55 -0800
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:55:17 -0800, you wrote:
->>Ma wrote: ->> ->>> We aren't here to drop off anything, we are here to ->>> continue ->>> what we started a long long time ago long before we got ->>> here. ->> ->>May i please ask....what was that? -> ->If you have to ask... maybe you can't afford it :) A long ->long time ago long before you got here you started your ->non-physical development. You were here before you got here ->this time. Maybe it was so good you re-visited :) -> ->>> Bliss is simple. Bliss is not having anything more to ->>> drop off that we have picked up while here. ->> ->>It's work AND effort...because we gather much before we ->>realize ->>that it needs to be discarded. -> ->Yes it's work and effort, 'right effort' as the Buddha said. ->The work and effort is getting rid of the stuff you ->shouldn't have gathered up in the first place after you got ->here. You didn't have it when you got here so you must have ->picked it up afterwards. Because you are right, we gather ->far more than anyone could ever need in a hundred lifetimes. ->Have you ever sat and watched a humming bird dart around, ->just because it was darting around? Have you ever watched a ->leaf fall from a tree or bush, just because it was falling? ->Have you ever watched a fish swim about in a river, just ->because it was swimming around? Have you ever watched the ->clouds move in the sky, just because they were moving? Have ->you ever lifted a bowl of water up to someone's lips, just ->because they were thirsty? Have you ever held one's had, ->just because they needed comforting? Have you ever set up ->some sort of shelter away from where you live, just because ->you knew that eventually someone would need it? Gather all ->that and you won't have anything to discard.
That was quite the beautiful thing, and made me loss of words, so to say 8-) Simplicity, serenity, selflessness. A pointer. I think it says it all.
Thank you Ma 8-)
->>Thank you very much. -> ->Well thank you too :)
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:11:26 -0800
>Good morning > >>We >>->start out here with nothing and then a bunch of stuff is >>->given to us so we carry it around that eventually we >>have to >>->drop off so we can do whatever it is that we are here >>for. > >Now, I am really not sure about this statement. >For argument sake, and the theory of evolution >and past (parallel lives) is this really true? >Are we not born into situations and positions >that we are meant to be in? Like the no choice thing?
Not one for argument :) Though physical and non-physical development jell they are separate aspects or ingredients of that jello. Any past development of a non-physical nature will carry on into the present and future. And of course we are in situations past present and future to continue non-physical development and smooth out previous errors in judgment. With all the stuff we gather we are prone to make judgments. What is is what is is, so there is really nothing to choose or judge.
>If life is no choice, and we do not have freedom of choice, >then why are we born in the first place?
What we have to get free of is the idea of choice. It has already been stated why we are anywhere.
>Then who in the heck put us here and for what reason?
Who put who where for what. Sounds like a good koan :) Why would anybody put anybody here? Maybe we're here just to rest up before continuing our journey like the 'way station' quote said. Maybe this is just a resort. What is is what is so there is no need to complicate what is. What is is really quite simple. Kiss :)
>What's it all about Elfie?
Does it matter what it's all about?
>And who was it that defined bliss and enlightenment?
I think someone who experienced it.
>When neither one exist?
They experienced something so took a word that pointed to the experience as close as they could, I suspect. What's in a word?
>And whats the point of the path, a path or the pathless >path?
Literally or figuratively? Literally it's when you're going somewhere. Figuratively it's a way of life.
>How can we know bliss, unless we know suffering?
Everyone here knows suffering so everyone here could experience something they could call bliss.
>How can we know love without knowing hate?
Everyone here knows hate so everyone here could experience something they could call love.
>We may not know where and why are we are going, >but we have to know where we have been.
True but you can know where you were and where you are which is an indicator of where you are going. But why is just to be.
>We need to experience it all, we need to live on both sides >of the spectrum >at some point.
'Experience it all' is a tall order. We have to just take one step at a time.
>We were meant to be conditioned by the outside world.
Get real.
>How else do we learn, and how else can we teach?
Ask the little ones before they load up a lot of stuff.
>Experience is the best of both.
Of course.
>We can't experience everything in one life time. Be in >linear or parallel.
Buddha sort of said you could because he seemed to indicate that you could get out of the suffering in one lifetime.
>We learn what we have to learn, then we learn to forget >what we learned. >Its a spiral.
Yes that's the way 'stuff gathering' goes :)
>And I hope that I presented a good argument.
Not one for argument, just relating what is :)
>Haven't had one for along time. LOL
Lucky you :)
>Shar
Namaste
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: The mind's cravings
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:43:54 -0800
"The state of craving for anything blocks all deeper experience. Nothing of value can happen to a mind which knows exactly what it wants. For nothing the mind can visualize and want is of much value." - Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Subject: Re: BIG Digression :)
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:53:17 -0800
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:10:39 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->->Have you ever sat and watched a humming bird dart around, ->->just because it was darting around? -> ->I have. All the time. Just watching them hover and enjoy their flowers ->nectar is incredibly sweet on its own. -> ->The Joy of the hummingbird. We borrowed this home and this piece of property ->almost four springs ago and up until then I had never had the experience of ->watching hummingbirds on a continuous basis. Every single day from spring til ->fall they show themselves to me. Their feeder is only about a foot from my ->balcony railing and it is smuck halfway up in the middle of a beautiful white ->birch tree. A lounge chair sits right there and so I can lay back and watch ->every single little antic they come up with. They make me smile so much. And ->do you know what?? They have such distinctive personalities! You get to know ->the way they eat…if they bounce or are content or look ->around constantly. The male and female are so easily distinguishable that it ->makes it even easier to recognize them and who is actually in ‘real battle’ ->and who is 'wooing' who! ->I have to be very careful not to sit too close to the corner of the deck or I ->could get a little sword right in my left temple as they come barreling around ->to chase one another. They are FAST, they Glitter, they are cleanly….i love ->watching them clean their ‘beaks’ on the tree branch. It takes them a very ->long time because they are listening and watching for an ambush! Can’t say as ->I blame them :) And they have a song. They don’t sing it very often, ->probably so as not to call attention to themselves, but they have a Song. -> -> ->Hummingbirds are cool. :)
I must say they are 8-) Ohh, I enjoyed this little piece of hummingbird history, it made me smile many times, hahaha 8-) Animals are great. I went to the park today, with work, and fed the ducks and all the other birds, that was real nice. I almost had a pigeon eat out of my hand, and one of the people with me got bitten in the leg by a very feisty, big goose-looking bird, greedy for the bread! The adventures of the day 8-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: BIG Digression :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:10:39 -0800
->Have you ever sat and watched a humming bird dart around, ->just because it was darting around?
I have. All the time. Just watching them hover and enjoy their flowers nectar is incredibly sweet on its own.
The Joy of the hummingbird. We borrowed this home and this piece of property almost four springs ago and up until then I had never had the experience of watching hummingbirds on a continuous basis. Every single day from spring til fall they show themselves to me. Their feeder is only about a foot from my balcony railing and it is smuck halfway up in the middle of a beautiful white birch tree. A lounge chair sits right there and so I can lay back and watch every single little antic they come up with. They make me smile so much. And do you know what?? They have such distinctive personalities! You get to know the way they eat…if they bounce or are content or look around constantly. The male and female are so easily distinguishable that it makes it even easier to recognize them and who is actually in ‘real battle’ and who is 'wooing' who! I have to be very careful not to sit too close to the corner of the deck or I could get a little sword right in my left temple as they come barreling around to chase one another. They are FAST, they Glitter, they are cleanly….i love watching them clean their ‘beaks’ on the tree branch. It takes them a very long time because they are listening and watching for an ambush! Can’t say as I blame them :) And they have a song. They don’t sing it very often, probably so as not to call attention to themselves, but they have a Song.
Hummingbirds are cool. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: The mind's cravings
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:01:41 -0800
>"The state of craving for anything blocks all >deeper experience. Nothing of value can happen >to a mind which knows exactly what it wants. >For nothing the mind can visualize and want is >of much value." - Nisargadatta Maharaj
So there. How many of us crave not a single thing ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: BIG Digression :)
From: "E.J." <ejLight@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:13:53 -0800
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:10:39 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->->Have you ever sat and watched a humming bird dart around, ->->just because it was darting around? -> ->I have. All the time. Just watching them hover and enjoy their flowers ->nectar is incredibly sweet on its own. -> ->The Joy of the hummingbird. We borrowed this home and this piece of property ->almost four springs ago and up until then I had never had the experience of ->watching hummingbirds on a continuous basis. Every single day from spring til ->fall they show themselves to me. Their feeder is only about a foot from my ->balcony railing and it is smuck halfway up in the middle of a beautiful white ->birch tree. A lounge chair sits right there and so I can lay back and watch ->every single little antic they come up with. They make me smile so much. And ->do you know what?? They have such distinctive personalities! You get to know ->the way they eat…if they bounce or are content or look ->around constantly. The male and female are so easily distinguishable that it ->makes it even easier to recognize them and who is actually in ‘real battle’ ->and who is 'wooing' who! ->I have to be very careful not to sit too close to the corner of the deck or I ->could get a little sword right in my left temple as they come barreling around ->to chase one another. They are FAST, they Glitter, they are cleanly….i love ->watching them clean their ‘beaks’ on the tree branch. It takes them a very ->long time because they are listening and watching for an ambush! Can’t say as ->I blame them :) And they have a song. They don’t sing it very often, ->probably so as not to call attention to themselves, but they have a Song. -> -> ->Hummingbirds are cool. :)
Of course, they hummmmmmmmm {8-) Humming Birds {8-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: The mind's cravings
From: "E.J." <ejLight@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:14:19 -0800
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:01:41 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->>"The state of craving for anything blocks all ->>deeper experience. Nothing of value can happen ->>to a mind which knows exactly what it wants. ->>For nothing the mind can visualize and want is ->>of much value." - Nisargadatta Maharaj -> ->So there. How many of us crave not a single thing ?
That is a loaded question {8-) How many crave not to crave? Or, crave to crave? Or, crave craving? Or, crave not to not crave? It can get pretty cravy {8-)
The need to know prevents Knowing. It is in the Unknowing that All is Known. It can get pretty cravy {8-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: The mind's cravings
From: "R. Edge" <redgender@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:25:51 -0500
>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:14:19 -0800 > >On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:01:41 -0800, you wrote: > >-> >->>"The state of craving for anything blocks all >->>deeper experience. Nothing of value can happen >->>to a mind which knows exactly what it wants. >->>For nothing the mind can visualize and want is >->>of much value." - Nisargadatta Maharaj >-> >->So there. How many of us crave not a single thing ? > > That is a loaded question {8-) How many crave not to crave? Or, >crave to crave? Or, crave craving? Or, crave not to not crave? It can >get pretty cravy {8-) > > The need to know prevents Knowing. It is in the Unknowing that All >is >Known. It can get pretty cravy {8-)
You are cravy EJ :) My vocabulary's increasing, thanks :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: The mind's cravings
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:44:21 -0800
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:43:54 -0800, you wrote:
-> -> "The state of craving for anything blocks all -> deeper experience.
No openness, no receptivity...
->Nothing of value can happen -> to a mind which knows exactly what it wants.
Closed mindedness, Not being open and receptive to whatever the moment holds, but closed, fixed, no development, no unfolding, static.
-> For nothing the mind can visualize and want is -> of much value."
Based on old, mental facts. Turn out to be quite the superficial thing.
-> - Nisargadatta Maharaj
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: The mind's cravings
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:15:28 -0800
At 09:14 PM 14/03/2006, you wrote: >-> >->So there. How many of us crave not a single thing ? > > That is a loaded question {8-)
No, its a craving for an answer. lol
>How many crave not to crave?
not me. I used to crave foods I learned I couldn't eat without a reaction. But now its all old hat. And I am wrong, I crave the warmth of the sun, and spring.
>Or, >crave to crave? Or, crave craving? Or, crave not to not crave? It can >get pretty cravy {8-)
Life can be like that. It's all about addiction. And be careful, meditation can also become an addiction. Or escape.
> The need to know prevents Knowing. It is in the Unknowing that All is >Known. It can get pretty cravy {8-)
Well, I know nothing about everything. I think its called brain drain.
Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:16:46 -0800
At 12:11 PM 14/03/2006, you wrote: >>Good morning
Hey Ma, How are ya? >>Now, I am really not sure about this statement. >>For argument sake, > >Not one for argument :)
Oh darn it, thought we could get down and dirty into this. lol
>Though physical and non-physical development jell they are separate >aspects or ingredients of that jello. Any past development of a >non-physical nature will carry on into the present and future. And of >course we are in situations past present and future to continue >non-physical development and smooth out previous errors in judgment. With >all the stuff we gather we are prone to make judgments. What is is what is >is, so there is really nothing to choose or judge.
Thats what I think to. I won't go as far as saying I know it, although I think I do. ha
>>If life is no choice, and we do not have freedom of choice, >>then why are we born in the first place? >What we have to get free of is the idea of choice. It has already been >stated why we are anywhere.
Yes, the idea of choice is an ego builder. For me choice and control, are together in the same pot. Which some like to colour black.
>>Then who in the heck put us here and for what reason? >Who put who where for what. Sounds like a good koan :)
I like koans. And mind boggling puzzles. Which is easy to do, boggle my mind. I seem to have lost most of it along the way. Getting more eccentric and strange with linear time. But life seems to be fun that way.
>Why would anybody put anybody here? Maybe we're here just to rest up >before continuing our journey like the 'way station' quote said. Maybe >this is just a resort. What is is what is so there is no need to >complicate what is. What is is really quite simple. Kiss :)
I have heard that being on earth was a vacation. Somewhat like going to Mexico and having to much Tequila. We get kind of sloshed from time to time and say never again. but we do it again anyway. I don't need to drink to get stupid. LOL
>>What's it all about Elfie? >Does it matter what it's all about?
No, but how can one have an argument or discussion if we constantly agreed with everything or everyone? But I was thinking that this list gets pretty quiet from time to time because we know what the other thinks already. And discussion becomes un-necessary. Then again, on the other hand. no one wants to admit not knowing. Or some other reason. So Shar makes noise just to see if someone is still breathing in the room. And she breaks up the meditation stillness with noise. then she gets whacked and shuts up again. It's an on going thing.
>>And who was it that defined bliss and enlightenment? >I think someone who experienced it.
Oh hell, it wasn't you? Hmm, I'll have to take a trip there and see who I meet then.
>>When neither one exist? >They experienced something so took a word that pointed to the experience >as close as they could, I suspect. What's in a word?
Concepts, ideas and translations of truth, and also lies.
>>And whats the point of the path, a path or the pathless path? >Literally or figuratively? Literally it's when you're going somewhere. >Figuratively it's a way of life.
We do exist in a linear world, and figuratively, we are the world. It still seems to come back to life is what you make it. And yet, we have no choice in any of it.
>>How can we know bliss, unless we know suffering? >Everyone here knows suffering so everyone here could experience something >they could call bliss.
yes, for me, bliss is just going with the flow. I used to think that bliss meant this ultimate wonderful glow and constant happiness. But that has changed. Bliss has become something that just allows me to deal with whatever come up with style and grace. Which isn't easy when one lacks both style and gracefulness. Another way of saying I trip over my own two feet sometimes. I think I am walking on air, but my feet are on the ground. Oh, thats a bad out of body experience. Makes one feel weird too.
>>How can we know love without knowing hate? >Everyone here knows hate so everyone here could experience something they >could call love.
Ah, the emotional love thing, that is the only love that has an opposite.
>>We may not know where and why are we are going, >>but we have to know where we have been. > >True but you can know where you were and where you are which is an >indicator of where you are going. But why is just to be.
I don't project into the future any more. That brought far to many disappointments.
>>We need to experience it all, we need to live on both sides of the spectrum >>at some point. >'Experience it all' is a tall order. We have to just take one step at a time.
Yes, and through evolution, is I think, the only way to experience everything. To become one with all, as is the familiar fashionable statement, you have to know all. And experience is one way of learning. The stupidest thing anyone can ever say is. I would never, will never. or never happen. I learned that the hard way. It seemed to take those words and stuff them down my throat by presenting me with no choice situations of doing just that. So the words, never, in any form, has been stricken from my vocabulary.
>>We were meant to be conditioned by the outside world. > >Get real.
ha ha, that makes me laugh. Wondered what you would say to that.
>>How else do we learn, and how else can we teach? >Ask the little ones before they load up a lot of stuff.
is there a choice of loading up or not? Parents do what they think is right, even if thinking is based on their own conditioning over the years. Doing the best they can with what they have. As it has been said, forgive them for they know not what they do. The evolution of mankind is a slow process. It takes time for people know and recognize truth. It's all in going with the flow of what is, until we hear that voice within saying, enough is enough already. Until then, we have no choice other than to become conditioned by those who came before us. Some are born to keep the truth alive within themselves no matter what. And these can be labelled as rebels, or other pet names for those fighting society. If no choice is really no choice, then we have no choice in what happens, only in how we perceive it. And that is no choice, it is apart of our own inner wiring.
>>We can't experience everything in one life time. Be in linear or parallel. > >Buddha sort of said you could because he seemed to indicate that you could >get out of the suffering in one lifetime.
ha ha, kind a sorta.......... Buddha was a wise man. But not everyone has a tree to sit under for such a long time. So many are seeking relief from suffering right now. And if that weren't true, then all those offering quick fixes, and sensationalism. wouldn't exist. Everyone wants to be saved from pain, but most aren't willing to do the work. Unfortunately, there are too many offering what they say is truth, and deemed as the path to enlightenment. All for financial gain.
And many who run these places are using the people for their pleasure and abuse of mankind, under the guise of spiritual. It is coming to light, more now than a few years ago, about these so called famous Guru Sages, are nothing but covers for illegal actions and money. Sexual abuse of followers is a big thing right now. Makes you wonder how to tell a genuine teacher, or sage from a fraud. Other than the true sage offer no promises other than hard work or whatever whack it takes.
Sometimes I think it would be nice if there was payback and karma that is not within the moment itself. Like years of being stuck in a bardo hell. So those like sai Baba can rot in their crap. Ah, I know that sounds judgmental but its not really. I don't know the man, but have seen the effects of his work on others. Talk about conditioning...........brain washing..........and illusion.
>>And I hope that I presented a good argument. > >Not one for argument, just relating what is :)
ha ha, I know, you are fun.
>>Haven't had one for along time. LOL > >Lucky you :)
I know, lucky me. The universe smiles upon me no matter what. And I am grateful to the universe or whatever label is put upon it. It's power is overwhelming sometimes and very humbling. I am but a mere mortal within its presence. :)
It's all fun, even when it isn't.
Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:18:08 -0800
>>>What's it all about Elfie? >>Does it matter what it's all about? > >No, but how can one have an argument or discussion >if we constantly agreed with everything or everyone? >But I was thinking that this list gets pretty quiet from >time >to time because we know what the other thinks already. >And discussion becomes un-necessary. >Then again, on the other hand. no one wants to admit not >knowing. >Or some other reason.
Well by some strange chance somebody could open up enough to find something out too :) And maybe put aside their flag :) Stranger things have happened.
>So Shar makes noise just to see if someone is still >breathing in the room. >And she breaks up the meditation stillness with noise. >then she gets whacked and shuts up again. >It's an on going thing.
Bringing up things is good because maybe somebody's waiting for some tidbit that may add meaning to their life. Maybe Elfie would think that's what it's all about :)
>>>And who was it that defined bliss and enlightenment? >>I think someone who experienced it. > >Oh hell, it wasn't you? >Hmm, I'll have to take a trip there and see who I meet >then.
Send a postcard back, it might be interesting :)
>>>When neither one exist? >>They experienced something so took a word that pointed to >>the experience >>as close as they could, I suspect. What's in a word? > >Concepts, ideas and translations of truth, and also lies.
Yes.
>>>And whats the point of the path, a path or the pathless >>>path? >>Literally or figuratively? Literally it's when you're >>going somewhere. >>Figuratively it's a way of life. > >We do exist in a linear world, and figuratively, we are the >world. >It still seems to come back to life is what you make it.
Or, don't make of it :)
>And yet, we have no choice in any of it.
Yes it all depends on the urge.
>>>How can we know bliss, unless we know suffering? >>Everyone here knows suffering so everyone here could >>experience something >>they could call bliss. > >yes, for me, bliss is just going with the flow. >I used to think that bliss meant this ultimate >wonderful glow and constant happiness. >But that has changed. Bliss has become >something that just allows me to deal with whatever >come up with style and grace. >Which isn't easy when one lacks both style and >gracefulness. >Another way of saying I trip over my own two feet >sometimes. >I think I am walking on air, but my feet are on the ground. >Oh, thats a bad out of body experience. >Makes one feel weird too.
Yes all the definitions don't really count, it's what you experience. You just have to be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking 'self' can experience anything. People think they can get enlightened and still hold concepts such as 'self'. From what I gather you can't have any concepts, especially about your'self'. A big trap, 'I' can get enlightened. Could be a clue as to why nobody is :)
>>True but you can know where you were and where you are >>which is an >>indicator of where you are going. But why is just to be. > >I don't project into the future any more. >That brought far to many disappointments.
No you can't project, just get a glimpse at the trajectory.
>>>We need to experience it all, we need to live on both >>>sides of the spectrum >>>at some point. >>'Experience it all' is a tall order. We have to just take >>one step at a time. > >Yes, and through evolution, is I think, the only way to >experience everything. >To become one with all, as is the familiar fashionable >statement, you have >to know all.
A little over my head, I like to keep it simple :)
>>>How else do we learn, and how else can we teach? >>Ask the little ones before they load up a lot of stuff. > >is there a choice of loading up or not? >Parents do what they think is right, >even if thinking is based on their own conditioning over >the years. >Doing the best they can with what they have. >As it has been said, forgive them for they know not what >they do.
No there's nobody to blame.
>The evolution of mankind is a slow process. It takes time >for people know and recognize truth.
Lost me here. Truth doesn't seem to have anything to do with evolution.
>It's all in going with the flow of what is,
Yes :)
>until we hear that voice within saying, enough is enough >already.
Is there ever enough what is?
>Until then, we have no choice other than to become >conditioned >by those who came before us.
Even after 'then' we have no real choice.
>Some are born to keep the truth alive within themselves no >matter what. >And these can be labelled as rebels, or other pet names for >those >fighting society.
What's in a label?
>If no choice is really no choice, then we have no choice >in what happens, only in how we perceive it.
Yes everything is perfect as it is, we just don't see it as it is.
>And that is no choice, it is apart of our own inner wiring.
Clearly we aren't born with choices.
>>>We can't experience everything in one life time. Be in >>>linear or parallel. >> >>Buddha sort of said you could because he seemed to >>indicate that you could >>get out of the suffering in one lifetime. > >ha ha, kind a sorta.......... >Buddha was a wise man. >But not everyone has a tree to sit under for such a long >time. >So many are seeking relief from suffering right now. >And if that weren't true, then all those offering quick >fixes, >and sensationalism. wouldn't exist. >Everyone wants to be saved from pain, but most aren't >willing to do the work. >Unfortunately, there are too many offering what they say is >truth, and >deemed as the path to enlightenment. All for financial >gain.
Yes that seems to be the dilemma :) But don't throw out the baby with the bath water :)
>And many who run these places are using the people for >their pleasure and abuse of mankind, under the guise of >spiritual. >It is coming to light, more now than a few years ago, >about these so called famous Guru Sages, are nothing but >covers >for illegal actions and money. Sexual abuse of followers is >a big thing >right now. Makes you wonder how to tell a genuine teacher, >or sage from a >fraud. >Other than the true sage offer no promises other than hard >work or >whatever whack it takes.
Yes.
>Sometimes I think it would be nice if there was payback and >karma that >is not within the moment itself. Like years of being stuck >in a bardo hell. >So those like sai Baba can rot in their crap. Ah, I know >that sounds judgmental >but its not really. I don't know the man, >but have seen the effects of his work on others. >Talk about conditioning...........brain >washing..........and illusion.
They do reap what they sew :)
>>>And I hope that I presented a good argument. >> >>Not one for argument, just relating what is :) > >ha ha, I know, you are fun. > > >>>Haven't had one for along time. LOL >> >>Lucky you :) > >I know, lucky me. >The universe smiles upon me no matter what. >And I am grateful to the universe or whatever label is put >upon it. >It's power is overwhelming sometimes and very humbling. >I am but a mere mortal within its presence. :)
Yes :)
>It's all fun, even when it isn't.
Yes :)
>Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: BIG Digression :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:21:18 -0800
>-> And they have a song. They don't sing it very often, > ->probably so as not to call attention to themselves, but they have a Song. > -> > -> > ->Hummingbirds are cool. :) > > Of course, they hummmmmmmmm {8-) Humming Birds {8-)
ah! aummmmmmmmm!!! See ! They are SO cool. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:42:06 -0800
> >But I was thinking that this list gets pretty quiet from > >time > >to time because we know what the other thinks already. > >And discussion becomes un-necessary. > >Then again, on the other hand. no one wants to admit not > >knowing. > >Or some other reason. > > Well by some strange chance somebody could open up enough to > find something out too :) And maybe put aside their flag :) > Stranger things have happened. > > >So Shar makes noise just to see if someone is still > >breathing in the room. > >And she breaks up the meditation stillness with noise. > >then she gets whacked and shuts up again. > >It's an on going thing. > > Bringing up things is good because maybe somebody's waiting > for some tidbit that may add meaning to their life. Maybe > Elfie would think that's what it's all about :)
For myself, i find this place like a treasure trove. There is more than just tidbits....there is a genuine treasure of pointers to help us on the journey to fully BEing conscious awareness. All of the questions relating to spiritual understanding can be thrown out here and there will be wisdom and truth answered back. I think Anna had just spoken recently..."Ask, and you shall Recieve". I'm REALLY grateful to you nice people for sharing. Elfie says we all need to share more. :)
> >Until then, we have no choice other than to become > >conditioned > >by those who came before us. > > Even after 'then' we have no real choice.
Just so as i am getting this correctly....we have moment to moment choices in our lives....such as should i do the ironing first? or the dishes.. Some choices seem petty but all of the choices that we make in our day are what create our future. And BECAUSE of the choices we make in our day to day activity we CREATE our future which is where we have NO CHOICE. ?????? Is this close? :)
rhonda
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Subject: Re: BIG Digression :)
From: "E.J." <ejLight@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:58:49 -0800
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:21:18 -0800, you wrote:
-> ->>-> And they have a song. They don't sing it very often, ->> ->probably so as not to call attention to themselves, but they have a Song. ->> -> ->> -> ->> ->Hummingbirds are cool. :) ->> ->> Of course, they hummmmmmmmm {8-) Humming Birds {8-) -> -> ah! aummmmmmmmm!!! -> ->See ! They are SO cool. :)
And see, they even know Mindfulness Meditation {8-) AUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:16:02 -0800
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:42:06 -0800, you wrote:
-> -> ->> >But I was thinking that this list gets pretty quiet from ->> >time ->> >to time because we know what the other thinks already. ->> >And discussion becomes un-necessary. ->> >Then again, on the other hand. no one wants to admit not ->> >knowing. ->> >Or some other reason. ->> ->> Well by some strange chance somebody could open up enough to ->> find something out too :) And maybe put aside their flag :) ->> Stranger things have happened. ->> ->> >So Shar makes noise just to see if someone is still ->> >breathing in the room. ->> >And she breaks up the meditation stillness with noise. ->> >then she gets whacked and shuts up again. ->> >It's an on going thing. ->> ->> Bringing up things is good because maybe somebody's waiting ->> for some tidbit that may add meaning to their life. Maybe ->> Elfie would think that's what it's all about :) -> ->For myself, i find this place like a treasure trove. There is more ->than just tidbits....there is a genuine treasure of pointers to help ->us on the journey to fully BEing conscious awareness. ->All of the questions relating to spiritual understanding can be ->thrown out here and there will be wisdom and truth answered back. ->I think Anna had just spoken recently..."Ask, and you shall Recieve". ->I'm REALLY grateful to you nice people for sharing. Elfie says we ->all need to share more. :)
I agree. There can be questions asked and arosen, there can be vital information received, this all helps me in my journey, my understanding. I learn much from this discussion list and find it fun and exciting and refreshing to participate in it, in many different ways. "There is a genuine treasure of pointers to help us on the journey..." that is how I see it, as an exchange between people on this journey called life, sharing of experiences, questions you have, things you want to find out more about, tips, thought-awoking and enlightening, back and forth, a little oasis, an open forum... Elfie lies back and enjoys the daylight 8-)
->> >Until then, we have no choice other than to become ->> >conditioned ->> >by those who came before us. ->> ->> Even after 'then' we have no real choice. -> ->Just so as i am getting this correctly....we have moment to moment ->choices in our lives....such as should i do the ironing first? or the ->dishes.
What did you do? you did do something, right, so there was no choice. Choice is there so we can feel that we have some control of our lives. That thought is weird because it seems like indeed did I have a choice to either do the dishes or the ironing first, but play with the thought that there is no thing as choice, that choice is just something we have added so that we can feel that we have control over our lives, which we do not have. After all, you did do something and that was what you did, the choice thing is just addition, activity in the head. This has been confusing for me, but since I started to write this reply to you I think it cleared up for me :)
->Some choices seem petty but all of the choices that we make in our day ->are what create our future. And BECAUSE of the choices we make in our ->day to day activity we CREATE our future which is where we have NO CHOICE. ->?????? ->Is this close? :) -> ->rhonda
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:43:33 -0800
>> >But I was thinking that this list gets pretty quiet from >> >time to time because we know what the other thinks >> >already. >> >And discussion becomes un-necessary. >> >Then again, on the other hand. no one wants to admit not >> >knowing. >> >Or some other reason. >> >> Well by some strange chance somebody could open up enough >> to >> find something out too :) And maybe put aside their flag >> :) >> Stranger things have happened. >> >> >So Shar makes noise just to see if someone is still >> >breathing in the room. >> >And she breaks up the meditation stillness with noise. >> >then she gets whacked and shuts up again. >> >It's an on going thing. >> >> Bringing up things is good because maybe somebody's >> waiting >> for some tidbit that may add meaning to their life. Maybe >> Elfie would think that's what it's all about :) > >For myself, i find this place like a treasure trove. There >is more >than just tidbits....there is a genuine treasure of >pointers to help >us on the journey to fully BEing conscious awareness.
I agree, I have found this forum better than most. I wonder why more people aren't here though. Maybe not advertised much. But if it was then a bunch of nuts would be here saying nothing :) Like me :)
>All of the questions relating to spiritual understanding >can be >thrown out here and there will be wisdom and truth answered >back. >I think Anna had just spoken recently..."Ask, and you shall >Recieve". >I'm REALLY grateful to you nice people for sharing. Elfie >says we >all need to share more. :)
I'm with you on this :)
>> >Until then, we have no choice other than to become >> >conditioned by those who came before us. >> >> Even after 'then' we have no real choice. > >Just so as i am getting this correctly....we have moment to >moment >choices in our lives....such as should i do the ironing >first? or the >dishes..
People make choices to think they're important. When present and doing whatever needs done it doesn't matter what is done first. That will just be obvious what to do first because you're just doing and things just fall in line. The minute you think about it you're in the past so not present. When present there aren't any choices, you just do what needs done. The only thing you might think about is who's doing it. The great doubt as the zenists call it. You doubt that you're doing it and that there's anything done. You just do and don't think about it. And when it's all done you stand there and wonder 'why who did this' :) 'It wasn't me, I don't do stuff like that' :) 'Maybe Rhonda' :)
>Some choices seem petty but all of the choices that we make >in our day >are what create our future.
That's sort of true. But if you didn't make any choices then would that mean there won't be any future? Maybe the choices make a future of suffering. Seems like they have so far :) What kind of future would we have if we didn't make choices? What kind of future would we have if we just did what needed done? Would we have a future of peace? We won't know until we try it. Seems to work for some :)
>And BECAUSE of the choices we make in our >day to day activity we CREATE our future which is where we >have NO CHOICE. >??????
The key word here is 'create', our choices 'create' our future like the choices of the past 'create' our present suffering. But choices beget choices so making choices 'creates' a future of making choices. We are so habitual that the choices we make sets the stage for future choices.
>Is this close? :)
Close causes too much lateral damage {8-) Set your sights on the little arched wire :)
>rhonda
That's close :)
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Subject: eating impressions & shitting behaviours
From: volker <volkerm@shaw.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:20:10 -0800
a quote from an 'other': 'a man may be born, but in order to be born he must first die & in order to die he must first 'awake' - from the klosed Yezidi sirkle in which he is kaught
generally speaking, my enfeebled attention is more often than knot glued & surrendered to this or that identifikation - it has no true autonomy but is held in the hand, the heart & the head of the said identifikation: eating impressions & ko-responding behaviours
tho in the space between all the slices of the 'pi' there is alwaze the guessing game of what the next numeral kould be
it is in this place that i am selflesser than the moon in pre-equinoxikal splendor chasing flutterbyes thru the trees when even bats are partial to the merriment that alwaze hilites the indigenous mirth
from the rhode to philadelphia, i take by bugle from its pig skin pouch & brashly blare into the brass of the dawning day: eye am here at times & at other times fade away in the spin of a sirkle
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:20:24 -0800
>I agree, I have found this forum better than most.
True,
>I wonder why more people aren't here though. Maybe not advertised much. >But if it was then a bunch of nuts would be here saying nothing :) Like me :)
Hey, careful what you say about our members. :) I bounce around through other forums from time to time. Watching and participating in some. And as you say, they all end up saying nothing. With a few exceptions.
I get tired of the noise after awhile though. And sign off. Have made some friends during that process.
And if I may speak about myself here for moment, again. I have gone through some interesting changes in this life time. Although I have never had a complete belief system, I have carried some pretty strong ideas and concepts about how things should be. And some I have defended to my death. Truth always seemed to win. Then I walked away with head between the legs, tail dragging, to lick my wounds, and surrender. But the surrendering comes in small steps. Rather than with a big bang of awakening.
It appears that each concept, and belief, has had its time and place to rear it's ugly head. And once you open the door there is no going back. Something pushes you onward from one moment to the next. And from one moment of clarity to the next. But never without an argument. The ego doesn't let go easily, and seems to prefer going from one belief to another, rather than being left hanging in space. Eventually one gets used to hanging there from time to time. Not realizing that if you let go, there is no place to fall.
Awakening, in my translation of it, is not one of transformation, but an on going transition and shift in consciousness. Somewhat like stages or levels, without borders. Periods of ups and downs are normal through this transition. The emotional and the mental body are always at play. Wanting to be the head of the household.
It's not that we can shed either one, they are a part of human makeup. And it's not about control. Control is a illusion and a belief that if we can control ego, we will be awake. It's the ego itself that wants you to believe that. Its the ego's way of remaining active and dominant in our daily lives. This new belief system, makes us feel good about ourselves and makes us believe we are making headway in our growth and on our so called new chosen path.
Control or the idea of control has been one of my main issues in this lifetime. Over the past few years, most of my unlearning, has been centered around this issue. And yet, it took years of unlearning and peeling of concepts to discover this one major issue. And its appearance came through a few events that have taken place in the last five years. I am a slow stubborn learner. :) And was in total denial that I was a control freak. I had to control everything around me. There is no denying that fact now. :(
The biggest breakthrough came with the sexual assault. I figured it wouldn't bother me much, but as days went on, it got worse and worse. I was never so frightened as I was at that point. Not fear of the assault, but fear of realizing that there is no such thing as control in anything. I had realized the lack of control in many areas by then, but had always thought that I had total control of my body, and who touched it. Wrong. And true understanding of rape victims was born.
The realization that victims remain victims, only through support of victim-hood by thinking we have control. And teaching we have control. We don't. There has to be a shift in consciousness and use that in helping others with that transition of victim to not being and thinking like a victim. And to toss the idea that we are survivors. To have a survivor, there must be a victim.
We are only victims through our own beliefs and concepts. Any of the so called suffering, is caused or stemmed in the belief of control. The poor me syndrome.
Surrender is about giving up the concept of control. And giving up is only in recognizing, and seeing that as it happens. Awareness within the moment. And it takes practise and focus, unless you have a whack on the head. With everything you do today, take notice of what is the mind as you do it. The intent behind the action. The motivation and the emotions attached to it. The I AM doing this because.............and it makes me feel .......................... See how much recognition goes into the belief of you are in control of your own destiny and the destiny of others. If you have to ask for help with something, notice your reaction while you wait. Is there anger because someone doesn't come running? Is there frustration because what you want to do is on hold? Be aware of how the body reacts to this frustration or anger. Once you see it, breathe out a long breath, releasing the tenseness of the body, and through that release watch the illusion of being in control go with it. You can't go with the flow, if you are fighting the flow. You can't live in the moment, if you try and control the moment. There is no surrender when there is a thought of an 'I' or desire. And don't sit down and think, oh, I'll just wait until they come and help. The flow waits for no one. Move on and do something else, don't wait. waiting again brings the focus back to the 'I'
anyway, thats enough ramble for the morning time.
Shar
PS, a thanks going out to the healers in the group. you are doing great things, and the feet are thankful for it. It has made a tremendous difference. This whole body thanks you.
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:48:22 -0800
>>I agree, I have found this forum better than most. > >True, > >>I wonder why more people aren't here though. Maybe not >>advertised much. >>But if it was then a bunch of nuts would be here saying >>nothing :) Like me :) > >Hey, careful what you say about our members. :) >I bounce around through other forums from time to time. >Watching and participating in some. And as you say, >they all end up saying nothing. With a few exceptions. > >I get tired of the noise after awhile though. >And sign off. Have made some friends during that process. > >And if I may speak about myself here for moment, again. >I have gone through some interesting changes in this life >time.
This time you didn't give anything to argue with because I agree :) So without quoting the whole letter I would just like to say thanks for the sharing and the pointers :)
>PS, >a thanks going out to the healers in the group. >you are doing great things, and the feet are thankful for >it. >It has made a tremendous difference. This whole body thanks >you.
Yes I've known some. I cheer them on all the time. When somebody has that gift to help others from their suffering they should use it fully. Everybody needs it and healers have that gift for that reason so they should use it.
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:31:56 -0800
> >This time you didn't give anything to argue with because I >agree :) So without quoting the whole letter I would just >like to say thanks for the sharing and the pointers :)
Good morning Ma,
You always make me chuckle. Being so much wiser than I can ever dream of being. I bow at the illusion of you.
graciously thankful you exist. Shar
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:55:59 -0800
>>This time you didn't give anything to argue with because I >>agree :) So without quoting the whole letter I would just >>like to say thanks for the sharing and the pointers :) > >Good morning Ma,
Good morning Sharlene,
>You always make me chuckle. >Being so much wiser than I can ever dream of being.
A 'wise guy' maybe :) Here is a 'real wise' one: "If you knew what I know about the power of giving, you would not let a single meal pass without sharing in some way." - Buddha
>I bow at the illusion of you. >graciously thankful you exist.
Maybe that is why we all appear to each other, though illusions, to share and enjoy the power of giving that Buddha spoke of. That is what makes this forum nice, the sharing :)
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:01:16 -0800
Re: Lighten Up :) >> People make choices to think they're important. When >> present >> and doing whatever needs done it doesn't matter what is >> done >> first. That will just be obvious what to do first because >> you're just doing and things just fall in line. The >> minute >> you think about it you're in the past so not present. >> When >> present there aren't any choices, you just do what needs >> done. The only thing you might think about is who's doing >> it. The great doubt as the zenists call it. You doubt >> that >> you're doing it and that there's anything done. You just >> do >> and don't think about it. And when it's all done you >> stand >> there and wonder 'why who did this' :) 'It wasn't me, I >> don't do stuff like that' :) 'Maybe Rhonda' :) > >ha! I'm just real glad it got done. :) > >> >Some choices seem petty but all of the choices that we >> >make >> >in our day >> >are what create our future. >> >> That's sort of true. But if you didn't make any choices >> then >> would that mean there won't be any future? Maybe the >> choices >> make a future of suffering. Seems like they have so far >> :) >> What kind of future would we have if we didn't make >> choices? >> What kind of future would we have if we just did what >> needed >> done? Would we have a future of peace? We won't know >> until >> we try it. Seems to work for some :) >> The key word here is 'create', our choices 'create' our >> future like the choices of the past 'create' our present >> suffering. But choices beget choices so making choices >> 'creates' a future of making choices. We are so habitual >> that the choices we make sets the stage for future >> choices. > >An awesome post and i have printed it off to study because >i will forget these wise words as soon as i leave this room >and have to decide what needs done first. ha :) >Seriously, thank you Ma. This makes a lot of sense.
Making sense of a chaotic world, seen or unseen, is what it's all about I think :)
>> >Is this close? :) >> >> Close causes too much lateral damage {8-) Set your sights >> on >> the little arched wire :) > >hmmm pondering...:)
Croquet, you were speaking of croquet, right? There's the little arched wires, wickets, you have to knock the ball under. There's no such thing as close in croquet, you're either through the wicket or you're not :)
>> >rhonda >> >> That's close :) > >:) still pondering
Where is Rhonda? Is Rhonda reading this post? Is Rhonda posting messages? Surely you don't think you're a name? A word? Words and names are just close to the 'real thing'.
>Enjoy your beautiful day. Spring has finally sprung in >Ontario...the >maple syrup is pouring! The sweetest of sweet. :)
Ah nice, I will enjoy it too, through you :)
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:19:15 -0800
> People make choices to think they're important. When present > and doing whatever needs done it doesn't matter what is done > first. That will just be obvious what to do first because > you're just doing and things just fall in line. The minute > you think about it you're in the past so not present. When > present there aren't any choices, you just do what needs > done. The only thing you might think about is who's doing > it. The great doubt as the zenists call it. You doubt that > you're doing it and that there's anything done. You just do > and don't think about it. And when it's all done you stand > there and wonder 'why who did this' :) 'It wasn't me, I > don't do stuff like that' :) 'Maybe Rhonda' :)
ha! I'm just real glad it got done. :)
> >Some choices seem petty but all of the choices that we make > >in our day > >are what create our future. > > That's sort of true. But if you didn't make any choices then > would that mean there won't be any future? Maybe the choices > make a future of suffering. Seems like they have so far :) > What kind of future would we have if we didn't make choices? > What kind of future would we have if we just did what needed > done? Would we have a future of peace? We won't know until > we try it. Seems to work for some :) > The key word here is 'create', our choices 'create' our > future like the choices of the past 'create' our present > suffering. But choices beget choices so making choices > 'creates' a future of making choices. We are so habitual > that the choices we make sets the stage for future choices.
An awesome post and i have printed it off to study because i will forget these wise words as soon as i leave this room and have to decide what needs done first. ha :) Seriously, thank you Ma. This makes a lot of sense. > >Is this close? :) > > Close causes too much lateral damage {8-) Set your sights on > the little arched wire :)
hmmm pondering...:)
> >rhonda > > That's close :)
:) still pondering Enjoy your beautiful day. Spring has finally sprung in Ontario...the maple syrup is pouring! The sweetest of sweet. :)
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:47:04 -0800
> I agree. There can be questions asked and arosen, there can be vital > information received, this all helps me in my journey, my understanding. I > learn much from this discussion list and find it fun and exciting and > refreshing to participate in it, in many different ways. "There is a > genuine treasure of pointers to help us on the journey..." that is how I > see it, as an exchange between people on this journey called life, sharing > of experiences, questions you have, things you want to find out more about, > tips, thought-awoking and enlightening, back and forth, a little oasis, an > open forum... Elfie lies back and enjoys the daylight 8-)
Go for it, sweet Anna! EnJoy. :) > What did you do? you did do something, right, so there was no choice. > Choice is there so we can feel that we have some control of our lives. That > thought is weird because it seems like indeed did I have a choice to either > do the dishes or the ironing first, but play with the thought that there is > no thing as choice, that choice is just something we have added so that we > can feel that we have control over our lives, which we do not have. After > all, you did do something and that was what you did, the choice thing is > just addition, activity in the head. This has been confusing for me, but > since I started to write this reply to you I think it cleared up for me :)
Another wonderful clarification on just DOing and BEing. I thank you. :)))
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Subject: Re: Off All topics..
From: "E.J." <ejLight@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:45:12 -0800
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:16:06 -0800, you wrote:
->There is a nice man at my workplace that is religious about dropping off a ->newspaper or two or three on my desk. He is just a nice guy who loves that i ->enjoy his gift. But this morning, it was so incredibly painful to read the ->highlight. -> ->A child pornography ring on the internet had been busted....which is ->good....but the youngest of the children who were being exposed was an ->eighteen month old baby. How does anyone deal with this gracefully? And the ->amount of people enjoying this kind of entertainment is mind boggling. How ->sick does the human being have to get? -> ->Any healers here ...i do not know the whereabouts of any of these children but ->HOW do we help them? How can any single entity make this better for them?
A sign of our times, sadly {8-| The pornography industry is only partially at fault because if there was not an interest in such 'entertainment' there would not be an industry. As sleazy of an industry as it is there has to be supporters or it would not be a lucrative industry. Past "choices" perhaps. Healers can not save the world, especially when that world does not think it needs Healing. But what Healers could do is send a measure of Healing Energy generally to the Humanity that has become Victims of those past choices. But bear in mind that the Victim List is a very broad vast List that includes most of humanity at large. Humanity is conditioned to be controlled and manipulated by sensual stimuli, to the point perhaps of OverLoad. With morality lost due to conditionings of a sensual nature, pornography is a natural outlet. So Healers should send Healing Energy to humanity in general for they are the Victims of the conditionings. A very good reason, it would seem, to get rid of conditionings {8-)
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:54:25 -0800
> >An awesome post and i have printed it off to study because > >i will forget these wise words as soon as i leave this room > >and have to decide what needs done first. ha :) > >Seriously, thank you Ma. This makes a lot of sense. > > Making sense of a chaotic world, seen or unseen, is what > it's all about I think :)
It seems. > >> Close causes too much lateral damage {8-) Set your sights > >> on > >> the little arched wire :) > > > >hmmm pondering...:) > > Croquet, you were speaking of croquet, right? There's the > little arched wires, wickets, you have to knock the ball > under. There's no such thing as close in croquet, you're > either through the wicket or you're not :)
ohhhhhh! Yes. Yes :) I am always just resting in that divet before the little arched wire, and nudging/kissing the ball ahead of me. :) > >> >rhonda > >> > >> That's close :) > > > >:) still pondering > > Where is Rhonda? Is Rhonda reading this post? Is Rhonda > posting messages? Surely you don't think you're a name? A > word? Words and names are just close to the 'real thing'.
You want Heart, Ma? As far as i know there is no other name for 'Heart'. :) > >Enjoy your beautiful day. Spring has finally sprung in > >Ontario...the > >maple syrup is pouring! The sweetest of sweet. :) > > Ah nice, I will enjoy it too, through you :)
I DO hope so! Maple syrup, as was once described to me, and all my senses fully agree....Is Liquid Gold. :)
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Subject: Off All topics..
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:16:06 -0800
There is a nice man at my workplace that is religious about dropping off a newspaper or two or three on my desk. He is just a nice guy who loves that i enjoy his gift. But this morning, it was so incredibly painful to read the highlight.
A child pornography ring on the internet had been busted....which is good....but the youngest of the children who were being exposed was an eighteen month old baby. How does anyone deal with this gracefully? And the amount of people enjoying this kind of entertainment is mind boggling. How sick does the human being have to get?
Any healers here ...i do not know the whereabouts of any of these children but HOW do we help them? How can any single entity make this better for them?
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Subject: Re: Off All topics..
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:48:48 -0800
>On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:16:06 -0800, you wrote: > >->There is a nice man at my workplace that is religious >about dropping off a >->newspaper or two or three on my desk. He is just a nice >guy who loves that i >->enjoy his gift. But this morning, it was so incredibly >painful to read the >->highlight. >-> >->A child pornography ring on the internet had been >busted....which is >->good....but the youngest of the children who were being >exposed was an >->eighteen month old baby. How does anyone deal with this >gracefully? And the >->amount of people enjoying this kind of entertainment is >mind boggling. How >->sick does the human being have to get? >-> >->Any healers here ...i do not know the whereabouts of any >of these children but >->HOW do we help them? How can any single entity make this >better for them? > > A sign of our times, sadly {8-| The pornography > industry is only >partially at fault because if there was not an interest in >such >'entertainment' there would not be an industry. As sleazy >of an industry >as it is there has to be supporters or it would not be a >lucrative >industry. Past "choices" perhaps. Healers can not save >the world, >especially when that world does not think it needs Healing. >But what >Healers could do is send a measure of Healing Energy >generally to the >Humanity that has become Victims of those past choices. >But bear in mind >that the Victim List is a very broad vast List that >includes most of >humanity at large. Humanity is conditioned to be >controlled and >manipulated by sensual stimuli, to the point perhaps of >OverLoad. With >morality lost due to conditionings of a sensual nature, >pornography is a >natural outlet. So Healers should send Healing Energy to >humanity in >general for they are the Victims of the conditionings. A >very good reason, >it would seem, to get rid of conditionings {8-)
Buddha said to treat the causes of the suffering rather than just the suffering. So I go along with you on this. Even though, as I know you do also, I do have compassion for the innocent ones involved. But as you said, may as well heal everybody while the healers are at it :) That way they don't have to make choices :)
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Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:03:31 -0800
>And when it's all done you stand > > there and wonder 'why who did this' :) 'It wasn't me, I > > don't do stuff like that' :) 'Maybe Rhonda' :) > >ha! I'm just real glad it got done. :)
Ha again, Sometimes I leave something that needs doing, and wonder in the night if, when I wake up, the job will be done. But no, the job waits for me. So the non doer has to become a doer, to get the job done. I never have to ask, who did this job, I already know. I guess there is no such thing as good fairies and elves. Other than in the garden.
> > What kind of future would we have if we didn't make choices? > > What kind of future would we have if we just did what needed > > done? Would we have a future of peace? We won't know until > > we try it. Seems to work for some :)
Again, choices are just a form of control. We constantly try and control our so called world around us. This control is based in fear. Fear of losing control, fear of not having any control.
And as for the future, this control is evident in the world today. fear is running this world as we know it, and the earth is suffering for it. Greed is fear. Everything that isn't based in love, is based in fear. But not love as it is advertised. Advertises love is based on emotion, and emotion is just another form of our self expression of fear.
I recall a point in life where fear and I became one. I have never experienced such darkness before. Never knew it was possible or that it even existed in such a way. It was like the Edgar Alan Poe poem, Out of the night that covers me, black as the pit from pole to pole, I thanks whatever God's there be For my unconquerable soul.
It's funny, years ago in school, I memorized that poem. It had a deep meaning for me then, and one I could never understand. But those words stayed with me And I would recite them from time to time Just for the pleasure of it. And when I came out of the total blackness, I would finally know the true meaning of those words and their importance in my life at that point.
I always think, that in making that so called choice of memorizing those words, that destiny already knew I would use them to help guide me out of the night.
We foolishly think that once we enter on the path, any path, of self healing, and self awareness, that it will take just a little while. Just one more insight, just one more book, just one more small dark night of the soul, and we will be there, sailing free and far from pain.
And those are great thoughts to have, and yet, like most thoughts, are illusion. It takes time to unlearn everything you have learned. Time and practise, focus and dedication..
Even when you think you have a time out, it is still moving within yourself. Nothing stands still. There is nothing that ever just stands still. Frozen in time. Life isn't like that. Existence isn't like that. Even rocks and other illusionary solid objects are in constant motion. Each little atom and parts of those atoms, are in constant motion. They work hard to let us a see them as a rock and to use them as such. And yet, they aren't really what you see at all.
The only things that are real, are what you don't see. You can't see the wind or the power behind it. You can't see the making of a rain drop, but you understand the signs of rain. And how rain can come to be in the circumstances that allow rain to be made. Understanding how, doesn't mean you can see it happen. All you see is the result. And the effect. You can see fire, but you can't know fire. We can only understand the concepts of reality.
What we fear are the concepts, the beliefs, and the illusionary world. And this fear is what drives the greed and needs to control and have ownership of something. Right down to thinking you own your body. And truth be known, that too is a borrowed object set to self destruct when we least expect it. .
You are no-thing. The image in the mirror, is just an image in the mirror. Nothing more. A vessel with a shelf life. Expirey date unknown.
How humbling is that?
Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:09:21 -0800
> > >An awesome post and i have printed it off to study because > > >i will forget these wise words as soon as i leave this room > > >and have to decide what needs done first. ha :) > > >Seriously, thank you Ma. This makes a lot of sense. > > > > Making sense of a chaotic world, seen or unseen, is what > > it's all about I think :) > >It seems.
Nothing is as it seems. If it makes sense, then you aren't seeing it. LOL Things that makes sense is just an agreement between ideas, thoughts and concepts.
well, it is a thought. Ha Shar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Off All topics..
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:07:05 -0800
> Buddha said to treat the causes of the suffering rather than > just the suffering. So I go along with you on this. Even > though, as I know you do also, I do have compassion for the > innocent ones involved. But as you said, may as well heal > everybody while the healers are at it :) That way they don't > have to make choices :)
:)
Thank you both.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Lighten Up :)
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:57:30 -0800
> > > Making sense of a chaotic world, seen or unseen, is what > > > it's all about I think :) > > > >It seems. > > Nothing is as it seems. > If it makes sense, then you aren't seeing it. LOL > Things that makes sense is > just an agreement between ideas, thoughts and concepts.
That gave me a headache. :)
What about the part that just KNOWS. What if it goes 'beyond' sense. You just know. hmmm i guess if you 'just know' then it really doesn't need to make 'sense'. That's not important in the moment. > well, it is a thought. > Ha > Shar
Thanks for ALL of your sharings, Shar. Really Appreciated.
Love, rhonda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:44:17 -0800
Greetings Ye Seekers of Truth and Understanding,
When pleasure is experienced as the result of craving, of the gratification of desire, we are Sleeping and so controlled and manipulated by those cravings and desires -- the resulting gratification being the carrot that we dangle before us. On the other hand, when pleasure is experienced as the pleasure in a given Moment, with no forethought of craving or desiring of such pleasure, we are not Sleeping but rather Directly Experiencing the Present Moment and responding to whatever IS that Moment. So experiencing the pleasure is simply experiencing the pleasure, without attachment to that pleasure and therefore not controlled and manipulated by the craving or desiring of that pleasure. Sleeping, we crave or desire some future pleasure. Awakening, we simply enjoy whatever pleasure is in the Moment.
While experiencing the pleasure, what need would there be to crave or desire the pleasure? Only before and after such experience do the Sleeping crave or desire any given experience. There is no separation, nor any combination -- it simply is as it IS. If you are experiencing the object of your desires, do you still desire to experience the object of your desires? When the Sleeping's desires are being gratified they no longer *in that moment of gratification* desire that their desire be gratified. It is before and after the gratification that they are controlled and manipulated by the desire for such gratification.
The craving is not the pleasure, nor is the pleasure the fulfillment of the craving. Craving is for some future experience of pleasure because the Sleeping *think* that the future is Real, as they also *think* the past is Real (remembering of past experiences of pleasure). But when the past and the future are seen as the Illusions that they are, the very instant Present Moment being the only Real experience that is at our disposal, we simply enjoy the pleasures of the Moment. As said, we can not crave anything that we are experiencing in the Moment because we are already experiencing it. That is why those who focus their Attention AS the Moment crave or desire nothing, for they are Directly Experiencing everything that they are able to Directly Experience AS that Moment, since the Moment is our only Reality. What is to crave or desire when one is experiencing everything that there is to experience? Only those who dwell on the past and dream of the future, crave and desire something other than What-IS the Reality of the Moment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Tzu
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:51:32 -0800
The student learns by daily increment The way is gained by daily loss Loss upon loss until At last comes to rest. By letting go, it all gets done The world is won by those who let it go But when you try and try The world is then beyond the winning.
Lao Tzu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: Anna <Anna@BE-Real.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:37:23 -0800
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:44:17 -0800, you wrote:
->Greetings Ye Seekers of Truth and Understanding, -> -> When pleasure is experienced as the result of craving, of the ->gratification of desire, we are Sleeping and so controlled and manipulated ->by those cravings and desires -- the resulting gratification being the ->carrot that we dangle before us. On the other hand, when pleasure is ->experienced as the pleasure in a given Moment, with no forethought of ->craving or desiring of such pleasure, we are not Sleeping but rather ->Directly Experiencing the Present Moment and responding to whatever IS that ->Moment. So experiencing the pleasure is simply experiencing the pleasure, ->without attachment to that pleasure and therefore not controlled and ->manipulated by the craving or desiring of that pleasure. Sleeping, we ->crave or desire some future pleasure. Awakening, we simply enjoy whatever ->pleasure is in the Moment. -> -> While experiencing the pleasure, what need would there be to crave or ->desire the pleasure? Only before and after such experience do the Sleeping ->crave or desire any given experience. There is no separation, nor any ->combination -- it simply is as it IS. If you are experiencing the object ->of your desires, do you still desire to experience the object of your ->desires? When the Sleeping's desires are being gratified they no longer ->*in that moment of gratification* desire that their desire be gratified. It ->is before and after the gratification that they are controlled and ->manipulated by the desire for such gratification. -> -> The craving is not the pleasure, nor is the pleasure the fulfillment ->of the craving. Craving is for some future experience of pleasure because ->the Sleeping *think* that the future is Real, as they also *think* the past ->is Real (remembering of past experiences of pleasure). But when the past ->and the future are seen as the Illusions that they are, the very instant ->Present Moment being the only Real experience that is at our disposal, we ->simply enjoy the pleasures of the Moment. As said, we can not crave ->anything that we are experiencing in the Moment because we are already ->experiencing it. That is why those who focus their Attention AS the Moment ->crave or desire nothing, for they are Directly Experiencing everything that ->they are able to Directly Experience AS that Moment, since the Moment is ->our only Reality. What is to crave or desire when one is experiencing ->everything that there is to experience? Only those who dwell on the past ->and dream of the future, crave and desire something other than What-IS the ->Reality of the Moment.
Ah, great Ray of Light!
Talking about getting out of the past and the future modus operandi, and that is where any craving and desire is, there is no such thing as craving in the moment, there is no room for it.
But you are also saying that we should get out of that habitual way of thinking, stop hitting our head in the wall, because getting out of the craving/desiring mode we would be enjoying the pleasure that is the moment. We are just acting on autopilot when it comes to habitually craving whatever we are craving, it is like we never have looked behind the door to see what is there, we just go on craving and desiring. We never think that life is enough as it is in itself moment to moment, whatever it is, but there is always the fantasies, the dreams, the fireworks, the movie music, that mislead us. That is sad, many times it seems like we just do what we do and think what we think because that is how we have been conditioned, even though that might not be what we really want. We might just want some peace of mind, although we do not even know about peace of mind. So you are saying get Present, desiring and craving are ills of a sleeping mind, that never is experiencing what is right in the here and now, this very moment, and leads to much suffering.
Anna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: "R. Edge" <redgender@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:09:19 -0500
>On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:44:17 -0800, you wrote: > >->Greetings Ye Seekers of Truth and Understanding, >-> >-> When pleasure is experienced as the result of craving, of the >->gratification of desire, we are Sleeping and so controlled and >manipulated >->by those cravings and desires -- the resulting gratification being the >->carrot that we dangle before us. On the other hand, when pleasure is >->experienced as the pleasure in a given Moment, with no forethought of >->craving or desiring of such pleasure, we are not Sleeping but rather >->Directly Experiencing the Present Moment and responding to whatever IS >that >->Moment. So experiencing the pleasure is simply experiencing the >pleasure, >->without attachment to that pleasure and therefore not controlled and >->manipulated by the craving or desiring of that pleasure. Sleeping, we >->crave or desire some future pleasure. Awakening, we simply enjoy >whatever >->pleasure is in the Moment. >-> >-> While experiencing the pleasure, what need would there be to crave >or >->desire the pleasure? Only before and after such experience do the >Sleeping >->crave or desire any given experience. There is no separation, nor any >->combination -- it simply is as it IS. If you are experiencing the object >->of your desires, do you still desire to experience the object of your >->desires? When the Sleeping's desires are being gratified they no longer >->*in that moment of gratification* desire that their desire be gratified. >It >->is before and after the gratification that they are controlled and >->manipulated by the desire for such gratification. >-> >-> The craving is not the pleasure, nor is the pleasure the fulfillment >->of the craving. Craving is for some future experience of pleasure >because >->the Sleeping *think* that the future is Real, as they also *think* the >past >->is Real (remembering of past experiences of pleasure). But when the past >->and the future are seen as the Illusions that they are, the very instant >->Present Moment being the only Real experience that is at our disposal, we >->simply enjoy the pleasures of the Moment. As said, we can not crave >->anything that we are experiencing in the Moment because we are already >->experiencing it. That is why those who focus their Attention AS the >Moment >->crave or desire nothing, for they are Directly Experiencing everything >that >->they are able to Directly Experience AS that Moment, since the Moment is >->our only Reality. What is to crave or desire when one is experiencing >->everything that there is to experience? Only those who dwell on the past >->and dream of the future, crave and desire something other than What-IS >the >->Reality of the Moment. > >Ah, great Ray of Light! > >Talking about getting out of the past and the future modus operandi, and >that is where any craving and desire is, there is no such thing as craving >in the moment, there is no room for it. > >But you are also saying that we should get out of that habitual way of >thinking, stop hitting our head in the wall, because getting out of the >craving/desiring mode we would be enjoying the pleasure that is the moment. >We are just acting on autopilot when it comes to habitually craving >whatever we are craving, it is like we never have looked behind the door to >see what is there, we just go on craving and desiring. >We never think that life is enough as it is in itself moment to moment, >whatever it is, but there is always the fantasies, the dreams, the >fireworks, the movie music, that mislead us. That is sad, many times it >seems like we just do what we do and think what we think because that is >how we have been conditioned, even though that might not be what we really >want. We might just want some peace of mind, although we do not even know >about peace of mind. >So you are saying get Present, desiring and craving are ills of a sleeping >mind, that never is experiencing what is right in the here and now, this >very moment, and leads to much suffering. > >Anna
I'd say that was a good explanation of what the Ray guy said, and easier understood, thanks :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: The Robes
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:46:32 -0800
Greetings Still Beings :)
What is it with the "Robe" anyway? .....kings, judges, masters, priests... they all wear The Robe. Why is that?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: The Robes
From: Shar <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:43:28 -0800
At 10:46 AM 27/03/2006, you wrote: >Greetings Still Beings :) > >What is it with the "Robe" anyway? >.....kings, judges, masters, priests... they all wear The Robe. Why is >that?
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/R/RO/ROBES.htm
This offers a bit of information, To long to cut and paste, and there are links for further investigation. Other than this, I wouldn't know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Subject: Re: The Robes
From: "Ma" <MaheshPradeep@dakwala.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:46:27 -0800
>Greetings Still Beings :) > >What is it with the "Robe" anyway? >.....kings, judges, masters, priests... they all wear The >Robe. Why is that?
It's fashionable. If you don't wear a robe you're not in the in-crowd. We have to be able to tell who's who. If Buddha ever came back and tried teaching wearing modern clothes he'd be stoned. Even though that's all he wore when he was here, the clothes of the time. He didn't wear a robe. So nobody would listen to Buddha these days :) So the robe must be part of the defiled perception of modern people. They obviously don't know so they guess, I guess. People today are too thingy :) If they can't see past the robe then they deserved to be fooled, I guess :) Too bad but that's the way it goes. Wait all your life to see a Buddha in a robe so you miss him as he walks by and waves wearing regular clothes. Beyond me what's in people's heads these days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: The Robes
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:09:10 -0800
> >What is it with the "Robe" anyway? > >.....kings, judges, masters, priests... they all wear The > >Robe. Why is that? > > It's fashionable. If you don't wear a robe you're not in the > in-crowd. We have to be able to tell who's who. If Buddha > ever came back and tried teaching wearing modern clothes > he'd be stoned. Even though that's all he wore when he was > here, the clothes of the time. He didn't wear a robe. So > nobody would listen to Buddha these days :) So the robe must > be part of the defiled perception of modern people. They > obviously don't know so they guess, I guess. People today > are too thingy :) If they can't see past the robe then they > deserved to be fooled, I guess :) Too bad but that's the way > it goes. Wait all your life to see a Buddha in a robe so you > miss him as he walks by and waves wearing regular clothes. > Beyond me what's in people's heads these days.
Jesus in Levis and a Stetson might be kinda nice. :)))
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