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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ May 2009 - Page 1 ~
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Subject: Re: A Sharing
From: "Rhonda" <Radhapatma@Light-Mission.org> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:00:09 -0400
From: "Bill Stokes" <Bill7@Earthling.net>
> > now that was a mouthful. just thought i'd say hi and that it's interesting > reading here. glad i joined :) > bill
Hi Bill ! Nice to see you here. :) rhonda
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Subject: Re: A Sharing
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 12:09:56 -0700
Yes, welcome Bill and Rhonda, good to see some faces around here {8-) Now if we can get some discussions started, that would be great {8-)
Namaste everybody, ej
->On Fri, 1 May 2009 10:00:09 -0400, you wrote: -> ->From: "Bill Stokes" <Bill7@Earthling.net> -> ->> ->> now that was a mouthful. just thought i'd say hi and that it's interesting ->> reading here. glad i joined :) ->> bill -> -> ->Hi Bill ! ->Nice to see you here. :) ->rhonda
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Subject: Humility
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 12:18:38 -0700
A little morsel to chew on:
"Humility that is gained ceases to be humility. A mind that makes itself humble is no longer a humble mind. It is only when one has humility, not a cultivated humility, that one is able to meet the things of life that are so pressing, because then one is not important, one doesn't look through one's own pressures and sense of importance; one looks at the problem for itself and then one is able to solve it."
-- J. Krishnamurti
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Subject: The Will To Wake Up
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 19:27:12 -0700
Greetings All,
I was recently asked what the Will to Wake Up really is. Yes Will. In order to truly Wake Up one has to engender the all encompassing all inclusive drive to do whatever it takes to rid oneself of any encumbrance that may prevent one from Waking Up. That is, Waking Up has to mean more to you than even life itself. Something worth so much to you that you would be willing to give your life for it. Nothing else matters other than Waking Up. There are no other thoughts other than the obsession to Wake Up. There is only one condition in the whole universe, and that condition is Awake. You live and breathe and think Waking Up. You hear nothing else or see anything else or do anything else other than Waking Up. When Waking Up is all there is, there is nothing else, not even you, that is the 'Will to Wake Up'.
A normal example that comes to mind is Sri Ramana Maharshi. I say "normal" because those who do Wake Up go through the same type of Surrender. He came to a point in his seeking and studies where he had enough of all the work without any progress. At least to him there was no progress. So he laid down and decided that something was going to happen or he would just lay there and starve to death. Well he almost did starve to death, but he did have the Realization that what he was really seeking was himself. With that simple realization he went off to a nearby monastery and searched within for himself. "Who am I." Anyway, that is the kind of Will that is spoken of when one is speaking of the Will to Wake Up.
Now, let me also say that not all of us are actually destined to fully wake up like Siddhartha or Jesus or Muhammad or many other great sages. Not at this stage of our spiritual evolution. At this point most just have to realize that they have to Wake Up and go about starting on that Journey. Most just have to get started in order to continue on their Journey of Waking Up. That too takes the Will to Wake Up, just not quite as intense a Will or as encompassing. You see, everyone can Wake Up, just not everyone Wakes Up the same at the same time. Regardless, Waking Up has to mean more to you than anything. You get what you give, simple really.
Be Well and Mindful, ej
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Subject: Less
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 17:54:23 -0700
"There is less here Than meets the eye." -- Ram Tzu
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Subject: A Ray Of Light For Today
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:16:06 -0700
"The real seeker of truth never seeks truth. On the contrary, he tries to clean himself of all that is untrue, inauthentic, insincere - and when his heart is ready, purified, the guest comes. You cannot find the guest, you cannot go after him. He comes to you; you just have to be prepared. You have to be in a right attitude." -- Osho
Any comments are welcome {8-)
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Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light For Today
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:50:12 +0200
Hello E. J
Please forgive me for the long silence eventhough I've been reading everything you've sent. Actually I'm taking care of my 95 yr. old parents, & recently got busy day & night with their health problems. My way of living this life is trying to live in the present & whatever I do (when I remember, because I often forget why I'm here on earth, ), when things get tough relationship wise, because of all the emotions involved, I say to myself "the person with whom I'm involved in, I try to see God in that person, & if this type of situation comes up, well it's for me to work on. I believe that this is how I work on purifying my mind & heart in my daily life. My underlying questioning is what is true, pure LOVE for God =all those with whom I interact with? So whenever in my daily life I feel & see negative thoughts coming my way I try, I say try, because without HIS help I fall into my own old negative ways. But than, when it happens, it also helps me to see what went wrong, what to change & what pure love is all about . I call for HIS help to help me. Another way for me to meditate. Whatever I do in daily life, when I remember, I do it for HIM. Actually, the biggest problem for me is how to dose, or find the right attitude, whatever help I'm providing for my parents, because the more I do things for them, the less they do for themselves & they act like kids, and that's not real help. The best help is that they help themselves to what's reasonable for their age & health problems. Or it can also mean that they're in my life to help me purify my heart. So in a way we're mutually helping each other. So that kind of thinking helps me continue untill He comes to me when the time comes whether in this life or another?
Most of the time I'm tired & don't sit down to meditate as I used to, so I do it in another way by thinking of Him while in action in daily life.
I don't really know if I'm in the " right attitude" ? It's just a questioning on my behalf. Trying to understand the right attitude.
Namaste,
Simone Le 7 mai 09, à 21:16, E.J. a écrit :
> > > "The real seeker of truth never seeks truth. > On the contrary, he tries to clean himself > of all that is untrue, inauthentic, insincere - > and when his heart is ready, purified, the guest comes. > You cannot find the guest, you cannot go after him. > He comes to you; you just have to be prepared. > You have to be in a right attitude." -- Osho > > Any comments are welcome {8-)
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Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light For Today
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 07:09:48 -0700
->On Fri, 8 May 2009 11:50:12 +0200, you wrote: ->Hello E. J
Greetings Simone, good to hear from you.
->Please forgive me for the long silence eventhough I've been reading ->everything you've sent. Actually I'm taking care of my 95 yr. old ->parents, & recently got busy day & night with their health problems.
It is good that we give back what we have been given. They gave to us for so many years, so it is reasonable that we give back to some measure.
->My way of living this life is trying to live in the present & whatever ->I do (when I remember, because I often forget why I'm here on earth, ),
Yes Present Moment Presence is Key. But yes too, so easy it is to Forget and so hard to Remember. Zikr, Self-Remembering is also Key.
->when things get tough relationship wise, because of all the emotions ->involved, I say to myself "the person with whom I'm involved in, I try ->to see God in that person, & if this type of situation comes up, well ->it's for me to work on. I believe that this is how I work on purifying ->my mind & heart in my daily life. My underlying questioning is what is ->true, pure LOVE for God =all those with whom I interact with? So
Why "true, pure LOVE" for anything? Yes God, but why not just "true, pure LOVE"? Directed nowhere in particular but rather directed everywhere.
->whenever in my daily life I feel & see negative thoughts coming my way ->I try, I say try, because without HIS help I fall into my own old
No one saves you but yourself, no one can and no one may. Others can point to the Path, but we ourselves must Walk the Way. It is our responsibility, not "HIS".
->negative ways. But than, when it happens, it also helps me to see what ->went wrong, what to change & what pure love is all about . I call for
Indeed in adversity we find solutions {8-)
->HIS help to help me. Another way for me to meditate. Whatever I do in ->daily life, when I remember, I do it for HIM. Actually, the biggest ->problem for me is how to dose, or find the right attitude, whatever ->help I'm providing for my parents, because the more I do things for ->them, the less they do for themselves & they act like kids, and that's ->not real help. The best help is that they help themselves to what's ->reasonable for their age & health problems. Or it can also mean that ->they're in my life to help me purify my heart. So in a way we're ->mutually helping each other. So that kind of thinking helps me ->continue untill He comes to me when the time comes whether in this life ->or another?
Each day is the first day of the rest of your life, as each Moment is the first Moment of the rest of your life. So it is a Happy Birthday every day and every Moment. We can celebrate a new beginning each Moment. No need to cry about something in the past because it is done and gone. No reason to fret about the future because it is not here yet. The only time that is Real is right NOW this very Present Moment. And this very Present Moment is your Happy Birthday. Party {8-)
->Most of the time I'm tired & don't sit down to meditate as I used to, ->so I do it in another way by thinking of Him while in action in daily ->life.
Do not rely on meditation either. Yes God and yes meditation, but think in terms of nothing being outside yourself. When we look within we find everything we Seek. When you "know thyself" you will know God. When you know yourself you will BE meditation. Self inquiry, know yourself, is what all the Great Teachers have told us to do. If they all Point to it maybe there is something to it.
->I don't really know if I'm in the " right attitude" ? It's just a ->questioning on my behalf. Trying to understand the right attitude.
Perfect, I would say. The Key in discovering 'yourself' is by questioning yourself. Questioning every thought and every action. Look into the Mirror Of Truth, and if you can not see anything then Polish the Mirror until everything becomes Clear. We have to Polish the Mirror to smooth away all imperfections. All imperfect thoughts and behavior. All imperfect conditionings. Polishing the Mirror is letting go of toxic conditionings. BEing yourself.
->Namaste, ->Simone
Namaste Dear Friend, and thank you for dropping in. And I think we all understand that you have your responsibilities so can not drop in as often as you would like. When you have the time is good enough for us {8-)
Metta, ej
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Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light For Today
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 00:29:58 +0200
Greetings E. J,
Thanks for your very clear answer to my email. I really appreciate it. What does (8-) stand for & Metta ?
Today was the full moon of Wesak .
Namaste,
Simone
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Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light For Today
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 20:21:20 -0700
->On Sun, 10 May 2009 00:29:58 +0200, you wrote: ->Greetings E. J,
Greetings Simone,
->Thanks for your very clear answer to my email. I really appreciate it. ->What does (8-) stand for & Metta ?
Well, the {8-) is a smile-face laying down on its side. My version of a smile. Everyone has their own versions of how to give the written word a bit of physical expression or emoticon. Saying Metta as a greeting or a farewell is to say *may the Loving Kindness AS me Embrace the Loving Kindness AS you as a Loving Kindness of One*. Metta means Loving Kindness.
->Today was the full moon of Wesak .
Yes the time of inflow of inner energy. Sort of an internal rush for working on spiritual developing. A time of meditation and contemplation. Also did you know that the full moon of Wesak (Vesak in the East) is Lord Siddhartha Gautama Buddha's birthday. In the East it is called Buddha Day. So this full moon is celebrated all over the world by many different people in most likely as many different ways.
->Namaste,
So too, saying Namaste as a greeting or a farewell is to say *may the Divine Essence AS me Embrace the Divine Essence AS you as a Divine Essence of One*.
->Simone
Be Well and Mindful Dear Friend, ej
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Subject: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 20:23:42 -0700
"All that we are is the result of what we have thought." -- Dhammapada, p.1
"When the prudent man overcomes sloth by vigilance he ascends to the terrace of wisdom." -- Dhammapada, p.7
"Wisdom fills not the unsteady mind." -- Dhammapada, p.9
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:16:58 +0200
Greetings E.J,
I went to look into Google to find out about Bouddha's Dhammapada. It says that "It consists of 423 verses in Pali uttered by Buddha on some 305 occasions for the benefit of a wide range of human beings. These sayings were selected & compiled into one book as being worthy of special note on account of their beauty & relevance for moulding the lives of future generations of buddhists. They are divided into 26 chapters & the stanzas are arranged according to subjet matter"
Please can you explain : I read somewhere that after the enlightenment of Buddha he never said a word anymore, his teachings were only transmitted through another channel "intuition?" I forgot. So how can he "utter" all these sayings of the Dhammapada? or is it transmitted by the main diciples of Buddha who received the teachings through this other channel, & then wrote it down for others to benefit from it ?
Another thing you write for example - Dhammapada, p.1 are those the number of a page, if so where can we find that? Le 10 mai 09, à 05:23, E.J. a écrit :
> > > "All that we are is the result of what we have thought." > -- Dhammapada, p.1
This makes sense to me because I believe we make the bed we sleep in through the way we think, & if we think we in such a way we'd act accordingly, & through that specific action there are specific consequences in life, good or bad. > > "When the prudent man overcomes sloth by vigilance he ascends to the > terrace of wisdom." -- Dhammapada, p.7
I have a bit of difficulty understanding the difference between (sloth=lazziness) & just taking time out doing nothing but dreaming for instance. I do that sometimes & feel that I'm lazzy . If there's guilt attached to it than maybe it's called a toxic mind? Than I'll have to polish the mirror? So maybe we have to be vigilant as to how we think? Well not easy " to ascend to the terrace of wisdom".
> > "Wisdom fills not the unsteady mind." -- Dhammapada, p.9
So how to become steady in the mind, in order to find Wisdom ? Maybe to find the middle Path?
Well, I'm trying to understand but just seem to turn around the pot !
Namaste,
Simone
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 09:14:50 -0700
->On Sun, 10 May 2009 10:16:58 +0200, you wrote: ->Greetings E.J,
Greetings Simone,
->I went to look into Google to find out about Bouddha's Dhammapada. It ->says that "It consists of 423 verses in Pali uttered by Buddha on some ->305 occasions for the benefit of a wide range of human beings. These ->sayings were selected & compiled into one book as being worthy of ->special note on account of their beauty & relevance for moulding the ->lives of future generations of buddhists. They are divided into 26 ->chapters & the stanzas are arranged according to subjet matter"
I am not an authority on the Dhammapada, but that sounds right.
->Please can you explain : I read somewhere that after the enlightenment ->of Buddha he never said a word anymore, his teachings were only ->transmitted through another channel "intuition?" I forgot. So how can ->he "utter" all these sayings of the Dhammapada? or is it transmitted by ->the main diciples of Buddha who received the teachings through this ->other channel, & then wrote it down for others to benefit from it ?
I have never heard that the Buddha used anything but the spoken word to teach generally. It was not until after his Enlightenment under the bodhi tree that he started speaking/teaching. Before that he was pretty silent. He had searched for many years and through many disciplines with no results. So he just sat down under that bodhi tree and decided that something was going to happen or he was going to just sit there meditating and starve to death. Which he almost did dye sitting there, until a passersby stopped and nursed him back to life (as the story goes). The same type of situation John the Baptist was in when he saw the visions in Revelations. Seems that at the point of 'giving it all up' is when we 'see the light'. Maybe that is why they all say 'give it all up'. By 'giving it all up' they mean 'give up the attachments to 'it all'. To disciples who were close to him of course much would be communicated telepathically, as in any other close Master/Disciple relationship. The same could be said of Jesus or Muhammad or any of them. Surely the Buddha was a super human being (Enlightened) but I do not think he was a SuperMan {8-)
->Another thing you write for example - Dhammapada, p.1 are those the ->number of a page, if so where can we find that?
The p.1 refers to the parable - parable 1, parable 7, parable 9.
->Le 10 mai 09, ? 05:23, E.J. a ?crit : ->> ->> "All that we are is the result of what we have thought." ->> -- Dhammapada, p.1 -> ->This makes sense to me because I believe we make the bed we sleep in ->through the way we think, & if we think we in such a way we'd act ->accordingly, & through that specific action there are specific ->consequences in life, good or bad.
Deep Bow
->> "When the prudent man overcomes sloth by vigilance he ascends to the ->> terrace of wisdom." -- Dhammapada, p.7 -> ->I have a bit of difficulty understanding the difference between ->(sloth=lazziness) & just taking time out doing nothing but dreaming ->for instance. I do that sometimes & feel that I'm lazzy . If there's ->guilt attached to it than maybe it's called a toxic mind? Than I'll ->have to polish the mirror? So maybe we have to be vigilant as to how ->we think? Well not easy " to ascend to the terrace of wisdom".
I think being lazy at times is different than being lazy all the time. I think anyone gets lazy from time to time and simply wants to sit down and do nothing. A well deserved break from always having the nose to the grind stone. But general habitual laziness is another matter. It is that sort of habitual none productive laziness that the Buddhist refer to as sloth. Surely you have seen the type {8-)
->> "Wisdom fills not the unsteady mind." -- Dhammapada, p.9 -> ->So how to become steady in the mind, in order to find Wisdom ? Maybe ->to find the middle Path?
A key to any real work on yourself is silencing the mind. That is what meditation is for, getting the mind to stop jumping around like a cat on a hot tin roof. Stillness, silence of mind (steadiness). Meditation teaches us to focus and eventually still or steady the mind so no thoughts automatically arise. It is the continuous self-arising thoughts that prevent us from seeing anything clearly. A mind without self-arising thoughts is a mind in Present Moment Presence. A mind without self-arising thoughts is being Present. Many sit in meditation for hours, days, weeks, months, years to still or steady the mind. Nobody said it was easy but it is the key to seeing clearly (or getting Awake).
->Well, I'm trying to understand but just seem to turn around the pot !
The key to understanding is learning with an open mind. We must be open and honest with ourselves. Question ourselves, question everything we think, question who we really are. Here is a little verse for you:
"To Lose Oneself and Find One's Self
"The Price of peace within the Scheme Is not to rest and not to dream, To look beyond a man's domain And try to help within his plane To Work and Serve and not to play To bear one's Cross and tread the Way;
"And as Reward for Work well done For all desire that has been shun, For Service and for self-denial To strive for others all the while, To forfeit rest, and under pains' uncease One loses oneself and finds one's Self and enters into Peace."
-- Yogajyotii
->Namaste, -> ->Simone
Namaste (nah mah stay), ej
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 22:49:06 +0200
Greetings E. J,
Thank you so much for all the answers you gave me I really enjoy being here , it's so instructive ! Le 10 mai 09, à 18:14, E.J. a écrit :
> > ->On Sun, 10 May 2009 10:16:58 +0200, you wrote: > ->Greetings E.J, > > Greetings Simone, > > I have never heard that the Buddha used anything but the spoken > word > to teach generally. It was not until after his Enlightenment under the > bodhi tree that he started speaking/teaching. Before that he was > pretty > silent. He had searched for many years and through many disciplines > with > no results. So he just sat down under that bodhi tree and decided that > something was going to happen or he was going to just sit there > meditating > and starve to death. Which he almost did dye sitting there, until a > passersby stopped and nursed him back to life (as the story goes). The > same type of situation John the Baptist was in when he saw the visions > in > Revelations. Seems that at the point of 'giving it all up' is when we > 'see > the light'. Maybe that is why they all say 'give it all up'. By > 'giving > it all up' they mean 'give up the attachments to 'it all'. To > disciples > who were close to him of course much would be communicated > telepathically, > as in any other close Master/Disciple relationship. The same could be > said > of Jesus or Muhammad or any of them. Surely the Buddha was a super > human > being (Enlightened) but I do not think he was a SuperMan {8-)
Thank you for your lovely answer! > > ->Another thing you write for example - Dhammapada, p.1 are those the > ->number of a page, if so where can we find that? > > The p.1 refers to the parable - parable 1, parable 7, parable 9. Thanks for the information. > > ->> "When the prudent man overcomes sloth by vigilance he ascends to > the > ->> terrace of wisdom." -- Dhammapada, p.7 > -> > - I think being lazy at times is different than being lazy all > the time. > I think anyone gets lazy from time to time and simply wants to sit > down and > do nothing. A well deserved break from always having the nose to the > grind > stone. But general habitual laziness is another matter. It is that > sort > of habitual none productive laziness that the Buddhist refer to as > sloth. > Surely you have seen the type {8-) At last I know the difference, I didn't think being lazy from time to time is ok! a big load off me! > > ->> "Wisdom fills not the unsteady mind." -- Dhammapada, p.9 > A key to any real work on yourself is silencing the mind. That > is > what meditation is for, getting the mind to stop jumping around like a > cat > on a hot tin roof. Stillness, silence of mind (steadiness). > Meditation > teaches us to focus and eventually still or steady the mind so no > thoughts > automatically arise. It is the continuous self-arising thoughts that > prevent us from seeing anything clearly. A mind without self-arising > thoughts is a mind in Present Moment Presence. A mind without > self-arising > thoughts is being Present. Many sit in meditation for hours, days, > weeks, > months, years to still or steady the mind. Nobody said it was easy > but it > is the key to seeing clearly (or getting Awake).
Well, I really should go back to meditation. I've been doing that for years & now? The worst thing is to feel guilty not meditating anymore, well I'll have to deal with that thought! > > > The key to understanding is learning with an open mind. We must > be > open and honest with ourselves. Question ourselves, question > everything we > think, question who we really are. Here is a little verse for you:
I really appreciate what you said above about "understanding is learning with an open mind" I'll work on that! > > "To Lose Oneself and Find One's Self Do we lose Oneself when we are at service for others & thus find One's Self ? > > "The Price of peace within the Scheme > Is not to rest and not to dream, > To look beyond a man's domain > And try to help within his plane > To Work and Serve and not to play > To bear one's Cross and tread the Way; > > "And as Reward for Work well done > For all desire that has been shun, > For Service and for self-denial > To strive for others all the while, > To forfeit rest, and under pains' uncease > One loses oneself and finds one's Self > and enters into Peace." > > -- Yogajyotii Very actual for me this verse, trying but not easy though. I also like the idea "In the happiness of others I seek my happiness".
I think Peace like Happiness all is part of Love. Love is neither an emotion nor a sentiment. Love first starts from the heart & from there emotions/sentiments can flow through, but it's up to us not to let the emotions to take over. Less there is emotion/sentiments the denser/purer the love. Problem comes from our mental because we're very rational.
Well easy to say but not easy to put into action, especially where emotions are concerned when helping others like elderly parents. So how to work with pure love? Service with no expectation is ok, but emotions/sentiments?
I still have a lot of cleaning, polishing the mirror to do. So much toxic conditioning.
Namaste, Simone
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 15:30:32 -0700
->On Sun, 10 May 2009 22:49:06 +0200, you wrote: ->Greetings E. J,
Greetings Simone,
->Well, I really should go back to meditation. I've been doing that for ->years & now? ->The worst thing is to feel guilty not meditating anymore, well I'll ->have to deal with that thought!
Only feel guilty for not meditating unless you have dedicated your life to a life of meditation. For everyday people in everyday society it is not so easy to devote vast amounts of time to meditation. Sometimes we can and sometimes we can not. It is a fact of life. We just have to try to practice as much as possible because it is key to work on ourselves. The more we practice the more work on ourselves we can do, simple really. So meditation is as means to an end. But meditation is also the end. Meditation is the means and the end. That is, we practice meditation as a means to establish the meditative state of mind. Once we have established that meditative state of mind then work on ourselves becomes much easier. Once you have established the meditative state of mind as a permanent state of BEing then you are always meditating even while living an everyday life in an everyday world. In other words you are practicing meditation 24/7, even while you sleep. So everything you do is a practice in meditation. So the end goal of meditation is to BE meditation. Like the end goal of seeking yourself is to BE your Self. Awakening is BEing.
->> "To Lose Oneself and Find One's Self ->Do we lose Oneself when we are at service for others & thus find One's ->Self ?
We do not lose ourselves when we are at service for others, we lose ourselves to be at service for others. Only when we lose our self-interests can we truly be at service to others. If we have some self agenda in the service to others then our motives are selfish. Only when we are not, can we BE. Only when there is no one at service can we truly serve. When we lose our self identity this is selflessness, and as such we can truly serve others. By losing our personal self we realize our higher Self and dwell in a state of Bliss.
->> "The Price of peace within the Scheme ->> Is not to rest and not to dream, ->> To look beyond a man's domain ->> And try to help within his plane ->> To Work and Serve and not to play ->> To bear one's Cross and tread the Way; ->> ->> "And as Reward for Work well done ->> For all desire that has been shun, ->> For Service and for self-denial ->> To strive for others all the while, ->> To forfeit rest, and under pains' uncease ->> One loses oneself and finds one's Self ->> and enters into Peace." ->> ->> -- Yogajyotii ->Very actual for me this verse, trying but not easy though. I also like ->the idea "In the happiness of others I seek my happiness". -> ->I think Peace like Happiness all is part of Love. Love is neither an ->emotion nor a sentiment. Love first starts from the heart & from ->there emotions/sentiments can flow through, but it's up to us not to ->let the emotions to take over. Less there is emotion/sentiments the ->denser/purer the love. Problem comes from our mental because we're very ->rational.
Deep Bow
->Well easy to say but not easy to put into action, especially where ->emotions are concerned when helping others like elderly parents. So how ->to work with pure love? Service with no expectation is ok, but ->emotions/sentiments?
All sentient beings are of the same value, all should be treated as though they were your family. In a real sense we are all part of the human family. Not being partial to any but offering service to all is pure love without emotion/sentiment. When everyone is our family how can any one of us judge to say which is worthy of our service and who is not? Judge not lest ye be judged. Serve all with the same gusto. Pure motiveless service. No motive, no attachment, no choice, only love and only service.
->I still have a lot of cleaning, polishing the mirror to do. So much ->toxic conditioning.
We all do have a lot of cleaning and polishing to do Dear Friend, so you are not alone in that. You are among like company here at this little Oasis {8-) So........ Walk for a while, and you will See Wonders unbeknownst before - you will See the Wonder of YOU. There is but One Miracle in all of manifested form, and that Miracle is YOU. The Mirror of Truth is held up for you to Truly See that Miracle. Of course looking into the Mirror of Truth is not without Pain, for it reflects our flaws and Causes of our Suffering. Oh yes, we can turn away from the Mirror of Truth and thus avoid the Pain but we would miss the Dance - the Cosmic Dance of Awakening to the Miracle that we ARE. Come........... Dance.
Be Well and Mindful Dear Friend, ej
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 02:55:38 +0200
Greetings E.J,
Le 11 mai 09, à 00:30, E.J. a écrit :
> > > Only feel guilty for not meditating unless you have dedicated your > life to a life of meditation. For everyday people in everyday society > it > is not so easy to devote vast amounts of time to meditation. > Sometimes we > can and sometimes we can not. It is a fact of life.
YES, that's what's happening to me now, mostly because my everday life has changed, and I feel that if I don't do what I do that is taking care of parents, I would miss out my responsibilities . But eventually, I'll try to make space/time for meditation, for as you say it's "key to work on ourselves". For the time being 24/7all my attention is with service, even when I'm writing this email for the door is half open to listen to any need to be attended to.
> We just have to try > to practice as much as possible because it is key to work on > ourselves. The > more we practice the more work on ourselves we can do, simple really. > So > meditation is as means to an end. But meditation is also the end. > Meditation is the means and the end. That is, we practice meditation > as a > means to establish the meditative state of mind. Once we have > established > that meditative state of mind then work on ourselves becomes much > easier. > Once you have established the meditative state of mind as a permanent > state > of BEing then you are always meditating even while living an everyday > life > in an everyday world. In other words you are practicing meditation > 24/7, > even while you sleep.
Hopefully one day I will get to that state of mind through practice, in this life if possible!
> So everything you do is a practice in meditation. So > the end goal of meditation is to BE meditation. Like the end goal of > seeking yourself is to BE your Self. Awakening is BEing.
Yes, that's the end goal for the soul. Surely would love to be there like thirst in the desert !
> > ->> "To Lose Oneself and Find One's Self > ->Do we lose Oneself when we are at service for others & thus find > One's > ->Self ? > > We do not lose ourselves when we are at service for others, we > lose > ourselves to be at service for others. Only when we lose our > self-interests can we truly be at service to others. If we have some > self > agenda in the service to others then our motives are selfish. Only > when we > are not, can we BE. Only when there is no one at service can we truly > serve. When we lose our self identity this is selflessness, and as > such we > can truly serve others. By losing our personal self we realize our > higher > Self and dwell in a state of Bliss. > > ->> "The Price of peace within the Scheme > ->> Is not to rest and not to dream, > ->> To look beyond a man's domain > ->> And try to help within his plane > ->> To Work and Serve and not to play > ->> To bear one's Cross and tread the Way; > ->> > ->> "And as Reward for Work well done > ->> For all desire that has been shun, > ->> For Service and for self-denial > ->> To strive for others all the while, > ->> To forfeit rest, and under pains' uncease > ->> One loses oneself and finds one's Self > ->> and enters into Peace." > ->> > ->> -- Yogajyotii > ->Very actual for me this verse, trying but not easy though. I also > like > ->the idea "In the happiness of others I seek my happiness". > -> > ->I think Peace like Happiness all is part of Love. Love is neither an > ->emotion nor a sentiment. Love first starts from the heart & from > ->there emotions/sentiments can flow through, but it's up to us not to > ->let the emotions to take over. Less there is emotion/sentiments the > ->denser/purer the love. Problem comes from our mental because we're > very > ->rational. > > Deep Bow > > ->Well easy to say but not easy to put into action, especially where > ->emotions are concerned when helping others like elderly parents. So > how > ->to work with pure love? Service with no expectation is ok, but > ->emotions/sentiments? > > All sentient beings are of the same value, all should be treated > as > though they were your family.
I meant when I said "helping others like elderly parents" there is usually attachment/ emotions while when you are with others, attachment is not involved.
> In a real sense we are all part of the human > family. Not being partial to any but offering service to all is pure > love > without emotion/sentiment. When everyone is our family how can any > one of > us judge to say which is worthy of our service and who is not? Judge > not > lest ye be judged. Serve all with the same gusto. Pure motiveless > service. No motive, no attachment, no choice, only love and only > service. > > ->I still have a lot of cleaning, polishing the mirror to do. So much > ->toxic conditioning. > > We all do have a lot of cleaning and polishing to do Dear Friend, > so > you are not alone in that. You are among like company here at this > little > Oasis {8-)
Thank you for allowing me to be here in this little Oasis, it sure helps to have somebody to talk to & to answer & correct when necessary. This is a beautiful act of Friendship/Love on your part & I deeply appreciate this opportunity to be here.
> So........ Walk for a while, and you will See Wonders > unbeknownst before - you will See the Wonder of YOU. There is but One > Miracle in all of manifested form, and that Miracle is YOU. The > Mirror of > Truth is held up for you to Truly See that Miracle. Of course looking > into > the Mirror of Truth is not without Pain, for it reflects our flaws and > Causes of our Suffering.
I take that challenge it's the meaning of why we are here on Earth for ! Whatever is in stake for me !
> Oh yes, we can turn away from the Mirror of Truth > and thus avoid the Pain but we would miss the Dance - the Cosmic Dance > of > Awakening to the Miracle that we ARE. Come........... Dance.
Yes, this soul certainly would Love to be in the Cosmic Dance !
> > Be Well and Mindful Dear Friend, ej
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:51:33 -0700
->On Mon, 11 May 2009 02:55:38 +0200, you wrote: ->Greetings E.J,
Greetings Simone,
->> We just have to try to practice as much as possible because it is key to work on ->> ourselves. The more we practice the more work on ourselves we can do, simple really. ->> So meditation is as means to an end. But meditation is also the end. ->> Meditation is the means and the end. That is, we practice meditation ->> as a means to establish the meditative state of mind. Once we have ->> established that meditative state of mind then work on ourselves becomes much ->> easier. Once you have established the meditative state of mind as a permanent ->> state of BEing then you are always meditating even while living an everyday ->> life in an everyday world. In other words you are practicing meditation ->> 24/7, even while you sleep. -> ->Hopefully one day I will get to that state of mind through practice, in ->this life if possible!
Who is it who "will get to that state of mind through practice"? Selfless is just that, no self. Self inquiry, "Who Am I?"
->> So everything you do is a practice in meditation. So ->> the end goal of meditation is to BE meditation. Like the end goal of ->> seeking yourself is to BE your Self. Awakening is BEing. -> ->Yes, that's the end goal for the soul. Surely would love to be there ->like thirst in the desert !
There really is no *goal*, though we talk in those terms. Actually there is just BEing. And no one to BE. And nothing to BE. There is just Awakening. There is just BEing.
->> All sentient beings are of the same value, all should be treated ->> as though they were your family. -> ->I meant when I said "helping others like elderly parents" there is ->usually attachment/ emotions while when you are with others, attachment is not ->involved.
Yes I know, yet I said that we can not have attachments so we must see everyone the same. Everyone is worthy of our attention. This is the meaning of real Compassion, we can love our enemy as we love our friend, love thy neighbor as thyself. This is a state of mind, a state of BEing, that we do not judge in terms of blood or creed or color of skin or religion or anything else. Look at Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, as Krishna tells him he must battle and kill family members who are with others who Arjuna must battle. An analogy to say to cleave to nothing and no one in the solitary journey of Awakening. Only the conditioned have the luxury of attachment/emotion. Have Compassion and Serve everyone, not just those you seem to have some special liking for. Socially attachments/emotions are expected so sometimes we much make a good showing. And indeed if parents are needy we help them. But actually True Love and True Compassion involve neither attachment or emotion. The Compassion and Love that Buddha and Jesus taught was very universal in nature and not toward any particular thing or person. We help the needy, not just those of our immediate bloodline.
->> We all do have a lot of cleaning and polishing to do Dear Friend, ->> so you are not alone in that. You are among like company here at this ->> little Oasis {8-) -> ->Thank you for allowing me to be here in this little Oasis, it sure ->helps to have somebody to talk to & to answer & correct when necessary. This is a ->beautiful act of Friendship/Love on your part & I deeply appreciate this ->opportunity to be here.
Thank you for being with us. You have brought life to the Community. The first step in Awakening is Realizing that we need to Awaken, so you are on the right track.
->> So........ Walk for a while, and you will See Wonders ->> unbeknownst before - you will See the Wonder of YOU. There is but One ->> Miracle in all of manifested form, and that Miracle is YOU. The ->> Mirror of Truth is held up for you to Truly See that Miracle. Of course looking ->> into the Mirror of Truth is not without Pain, for it reflects our flaws and ->> Causes of our Suffering. -> ->I take that challenge it's the meaning of why we are here on Earth for ! ->Whatever is in stake for me !
Precisely. Deep Bow
->> Oh yes, we can turn away from the Mirror of Truth ->> and thus avoid the Pain but we would miss the Dance - the Cosmic Dance ->> of Awakening to the Miracle that we ARE. Come........... Dance. -> ->Yes, this soul certainly would Love to be in the Cosmic Dance !
There is only the Cosmic Dance. Life is just a play of musical notes in the song called existence. There is Music, there is Song, there is Dance, yet Nothing more than What-IS. The best that can be done is BEing the Dance. Existence is a hologram, whereas the whole is reflected in all its parts, so there is no real 'part'. All so called parts are the whole. So there are no parts, there is only the whole. It just seems like there are parts. Parts like to think they hold some importance separate from the whole, that is why we have hatred and discontent in the world. When parts realize that what is important is the whole and that the part is actually none existence except in the part's mind, there will be Compassion and Love for All in the world.
Be Well and Mindful Wonderful Friend, ej
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Subject: A Light
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:15:27 -0700
"When a fish swims, it swims on and on, and there is no end to the water. When a bird flies, it flies on and on, and there is no end to the sky. There was never a fish that swam out of the water or a bird that flew out of the sky. When they need just a little water or sky, they use just a little; when they need a lot, they use a lot. Thus, they use all of it in every moment, and in every place they have perfect freedom." -- Dogen
We are always thinking about the past and/or the future, always a step behind and/or a step ahead of ourselves, so we miss the Present Moment. Not being Present, how many Moments can you afford to miss?
ej
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 00:53:11 +0200
Greetings E.J,
Le 11 mai 09, à 03:51, E.J. a écrit :
> ->Hopefully one day I will get to that state of mind through > practice, in > ->this life if possible! > > Who is it who "will get to that state of mind through practice"? > Selfless is just that, no self. Self inquiry, "Who Am I?" "Who Am I ? = this soul who is using this body to write this email. Not the ego though this soul needs the body to live in this world. > > ->> So everything you do is a practice in meditation. So > ->> the end goal of meditation is to BE meditation. Like the end goal > of > ->> seeking yourself is to BE your Self. Awakening is BEing. > -> > ->Yes, that's the end goal for the soul. Surely would love to be there > ->like thirst in the desert ! > > There really is no *goal*, though we talk in those terms. > Actually > there is just BEing. And no one to BE. And nothing to BE. There is > just > Awakening. There is just BEing.
Yes, do you mean to realise that we are to awake to just BEing. BEing is a state. > > ->> All sentient beings are of the same value, all should be > treated > ->> as though they were your family. > -> > ->I meant when I said "helping others like elderly parents" there is > ->usually attachment/ emotions while when you are with others, > attachment is not > ->involved. > > Yes I know, yet I said that we can not have attachments so we > must see > everyone the same. Yes, I understand that attachments is a source of suffering so it's not Love.
> Everyone is worthy of our attention. Certainly,
> This is the > meaning of real Compassion, we can love our enemy as we love our > friend, > love thy neighbor as thyself. Easier to love our friend than our enemy!
> This is a state of mind, a state of BEing, So our work is to purify our mind to have a state of BEing. > that we do not judge in terms of blood or creed or color of skin or > religion or anything else.
Mother Theresa was an example of this state of mind.
> Look at Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, as Krishna > tells him he must battle and kill family members who are with others > who > Arjuna must battle. An analogy to say to cleave to nothing and no one > in > the solitary journey of Awakening. "cleave to nothing and no one" = only to God as our Friend, would that be a right attitude? > Only the conditioned have the luxury of > attachment/emotion. Have Compassion and Serve everyone, not just > those you > seem to have some special liking for. Socially attachments/emotions > are > expected so sometimes we much make a good showing. And indeed if > parents > are needy we help them. But actually True Love and True Compassion > involve > neither attachment or emotion. The Compassion and Love that Buddha and > Jesus taught was very universal in nature and not toward any particular > thing or person. We help the needy, not just those of our immediate > bloodline. Yes I understand but in my case this is what I'm actually living, but if tomorrow something else shows up than I should help the same way, whoever it is right ? = compassion. > > -> > The first step in Awakening is Realizing that we need to Awaken, so > you are > on the right track. Thank you pointing that out, it sure is an encouragement > > ->> Oh yes, we can turn away from the Mirror of Truth > ->> and thus avoid the Pain but we would miss the Dance - the Cosmic > Dance > ->> of Awakening to the Miracle that we ARE. Come........... Dance. > -> > ->Yes, this soul certainly would Love to be in the Cosmic Dance ! > > There is only the Cosmic Dance. Life is just a play of musical > notes > in the song called existence. There is Music, there is Song, there is > Dance, yet Nothing more than What-IS. The best that can be done is > BEing > the Dance. Existence is a hologram,
Not easy for me to grasp this one "Existence is a hologram.......part's mind" Is it like the idea that in one human cell everything is there to make a human body? Or the idea that a spark of God is in each one of us ? That each one of us contains the whole eventhough the mind is telling us that we are just a part of the whole?
> whereas the whole is reflected in all > its parts, so there is no real 'part'. All so called parts are the > whole. > So there are no parts, there is only the whole. It just seems like > there > are parts. Parts like to think they hold some importance separate > from the > whole, that is why we have hatred and discontent in the world. When > parts > realize that what is important is the whole and that the part is > actually > none existence except in the part's mind > , there will be Compassion and Love > for All in the world. > > Be Well and Mindful Wonderful Friend, ej
This one is not too easy for me, I'll have to re read Again thanks for all your input
Namaste, Simone
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Subject: Re: A Light
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 01:31:44 +0200
Greetings E. J,
Why we human beings who's supposed to have intelligence, compared to fish & birds, have difficulty enjoying just the present moment? Maybe because we have a rational mind that fish & birds don't possess. We are conditioned since childhood with all the do this & don't do that. So after our so called education, we spend the rest of our lives trying to undo this condition in order to live in the Present Moment.
We live in the past and:or the future because we live in a certain insecurity/fear.
Even knowing all this I often get trapped into this conditioning. True I often miss the opportunity to live in the present worrying unnecessary things which will probably never happen, or things of the past which is over . How stupid of me & yet I continue, untill I remind myself to stop this process.
Now, how do we go about getting rid of all that in order to live in the Present Moment? How long do we have to go about questioning ourselves, untill we can get rid of this conditioning? What is the key to open the door to live always in the Present Moment? The day our mirror is crystal clear? Enlightenment?
Namaste
Simone Le 11 mai 09, à 21:15, E.J. a écrit :
> > > "When a fish swims, it swims on and on, and there is no end to the > water. > When a bird flies, it flies on and on, and there is no end to the sky. > There was never a fish that swam out of the water > or a bird that flew out of the sky. > When they need just a little water or sky, they use just a little; > when they need a lot, they use a lot. > Thus, they use all of it in every moment, > and in every place they have perfect freedom." -- Dogen > > We are always thinking about the past and/or the future, always a > step > behind and/or a step ahead of ourselves, so we miss the Present > Moment. Not > being Present, how many Moments can you afford to miss? > > ej
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:36:07 -0700
->On Tue, 12 May 2009 00:53:11 +0200, you wrote: ->Greetings E.J,
Yes Greetings Dear Friend,
->> Who is it who "will get to that state of mind through practice"? ->> Selfless is just that, no self. Self inquiry, "Who Am I?" ->"Who Am I ? = this soul who is using this body to write this email. Not ->the ego though this soul needs the body to live in this world.
The 'who am I' practice is what we call 'self inquiry'. There is a Zen tale about Zhuangzi who once dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He did not know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakably Zhuangzi. But he did not know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi. So who really are we, just a dream? We have to find out before we can Awaken. Jesus said that we had to "know thyself." Are we really anything? Even to say we are a "soul" is to say we are something. It is all in the identification, regardless of whether we identity with our outer aspects or our inner aspect it is still identification. Why identify with anything? Why even identify with yourself? Why not just BE?
->> There really is no *goal*, though we talk in those terms. ->> Actually there is just BEing. And no one to BE. And nothing to BE. There is ->> just Awakening. There is just BEing. -> ->Yes, do you mean to realise that we are to awake to just BEing. BEing ->is a state.
Yes we refer to BEing as a state, but actually BEing just IS. When we use words we must realize their limitations. Thus we must look at the space between the words to get a fuller meaning. BEing is really all there is, we just fool ourselves by thinking that there is something other than BEing. We ARE, we can BE. Conditioned man is a Dualist so there has to be something other than What-IS. When unconditioned then there is only BEing and only What-IS. Nothing BEing, and BEing nothing.
->> Yes I know, yet I said that we can not have attachments so we ->> must see everyone the same. ->Yes, I understand that attachments is a source of suffering so it's not ->Love.
Deep Bow
->> Everyone is worthy of our attention. ->Certainly,
Deep Bow
->> This is the meaning of real Compassion, we can love our enemy as we love our ->> friend, love thy neighbor as thyself. ->Easier to love our friend than our enemy!
If doing the right thing was easy we would not have all the problems in the world {8-)
->> This is a state of mind, a state of BEing, ->So our work is to purify our mind to have a state of BEing.
We purify the mind by letting go of all those dear conditioned ideas and images and notions of all sorts. Once the conditionings no longer direct our thinking and behavior then what remains is that state of BEing.
->> Look at Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, as Krishna ->> tells him he must battle and kill family members who are with others ->> who Arjuna must battle. An analogy to say to cleave to nothing and no one ->> in the solitary journey of Awakening. ->"cleave to nothing and no one" = only to God as our Friend, would that ->be a right attitude?
Cleave to nothing and no one! The Path to Salvation must be Walked ourselves Alone, no one can do it for us.
->> Only the conditioned have the luxury of ->> attachment/emotion. Have Compassion and Serve everyone, not just ->> those you seem to have some special liking for. Socially attachments/emotions ->> are expected so sometimes we much make a good showing. And indeed if ->> parents are needy we help them. But actually True Love and True Compassion ->> involve neither attachment or emotion. The Compassion and Love that Buddha and ->> Jesus taught was very universal in nature and not toward any particular ->> thing or person. We help the needy, not just those of our immediate ->> bloodline. ->Yes I understand but in my case this is what I'm actually living, but ->if tomorrow something else shows up than I should help the same way, whoever it is ->right ? = compassion.
Deep Bow
->> There is only the Cosmic Dance. Life is just a play of musical ->> notes in the song called existence. There is Music, there is Song, there is ->> Dance, yet Nothing more than What-IS. The best that can be done is ->> BEing the Dance. Existence is a hologram, -> ->Not easy for me to grasp this one "Existence is a hologram.......part's ->mind" Is it like the idea that in one human cell everything is there to make ->a human body? Or the idea that a spark of God is in each one of us ? That each ->one of us contains the whole eventhough the mind is telling us that we are ->just a part of the whole?
Perhaps I am using the wrong word in hologram. What I am pointing to is more like a drop of water being as much the ocean as the ocean. If you take a cup of water from the ocean you still have the ocean in the cup. The part is exactly the same as the whole, not like a cell that contains everything or some spark. We are not part of the whole, we ARE the whole. When seek within for ourselves and we find God. Nothing is outside of us. WE are IT, each person is IT. As Sir William Black once said, "in a grain of sand you can grasp the whole of the universe."
->> whereas the whole is reflected in all ->> its parts, so there is no real 'part'. All so called parts are the ->> whole. ->> So there are no parts, there is only the whole. It just seems like ->> there are parts. Parts like to think they hold some importance separate ->> from the whole, that is why we have hatred and discontent in the world. When ->> parts realize that what is important is the whole and that the part is ->> actually none existence except in the part's mind ->> , there will be Compassion and Love for All in the world. ->> ->> Be Well and Mindful Wonderful Friend, ej -> ->This one is not too easy for me, I'll have to re read ->Again thanks for all your input
There is only separation, them and us, this and that, you and me, because we are conditioned to 'think so'. Duality, the notion of 'other', is a conditioned notion. There is only What-IS so there can not be some 'other'. Only in appearance is there "ten thousand things." Beyond appearance, in the subtle realm of Reality, All is the Same. Some say all is One. Though in Zen circles they say all is None {8-)
Namaste, ej
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Subject: Re: A Light
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 19:35:52 -0700
->On Tue, 12 May 2009 01:31:44 +0200, you wrote: ->Greetings E. J,
Greetings Simone,
->Why we human beings who's supposed to have intelligence, compared to ->fish & birds, have difficulty enjoying just the present moment? Maybe because we ->have a rational mind that fish & birds don't possess. We are conditioned since ->childhood with all the do this & don't do that. So after our so called education, we spend ->the rest of our lives trying to undo this condition in order to live in the Present Moment. -> ->We live in the past and:or the future because we live in a certain ->insecurity/fear. -> ->Even knowing all this I often get trapped into this conditioning. True ->I often miss the opportunity to live in the present worrying unnecessary things ->which will probably never happen, or things of the past which is over . How stupid of ->me & yet I continue, untill I remind myself to stop this process.
Deep Bow This is great, good talks. Like the 'old days' {8-)
->Now, how do we go about getting rid of all that in order to live in the ->Present Moment?
Establish a good meditation practice so you can get the mind mostly quiet. Then question everything you have ever thought or believed. Ask yourself why you think that way, why you believe that. Do a complete psychoanalysis on yourself. Tare yourself totally apart to figure out who you really are. Really be critical of everything about you. You have to be open and very honest with yourself. No excuses. You are doing this while alone so nobody is around so you can cheat. There is nobody around to know so do not cheat, because you only cheat yourself if you do. Really be honest about yourself. It is really common sense, you know what is conditioned drivel and what is not. Some of the conditionings will be easy to let go and some will be very painful to let go because you like them. Some will be the hardest thing you will ever do. Some will feel as though you are pulling your life right out of your chest. One by one, step by step, we have to let them go. Not all conditionings, like leanings such as talking and eating and that sort of thing. Just the conditionings that actually direct us to do things that provide something for others while harming us, such as the Dualistic notion that one belief system is better than another belief system. Fact and direct experience is far less harmful than a belief.
->How long do we have to go about questioning ourselves, untill we can ->get rid of this conditioning?
Yup, every single shard of toxic conditioning has to go. It will take some time, but Will and Persistence and Perseverance will see you through to The Other Shore. Awakening is really just another word meaning 'nothing left to let go'. And Awakening is a verb, an action word, so it is an ever ongoing Unfoldment. So we continuously Awaken for Eternity. Besides, the Dance is too Wondrous to ever want it to end.
->What is the key to open the door to live always in the ->Present Moment?
Along the Path you will pick up many Keys, and each Key will open some door that you need opened at the Moment. There is no quick fix, or magic key. Persistence and Perseverance and Dedication and Submission are four Keys to start with.
->The day our mirror is crystal clear? Enlightenment?
Well, even the Gautama Buddha was still Spiritually Unfolding right up until he died. Both he and Jesus said that others would do better than they had done. Far more Enlightened than anyone else, but Enlightenment is not an End. Rather it is the Beginning. We work on ourselves to start Awakening, not to be Awakened. I have yet to find that anyone ever said that they had reached the end of Awakening/Enlightenment. Onlookers say some are Awakened or Enlightened but the onlooker could not know. Only those Awakening could know. All the onlooker could know is that someone would be more Awakened/Enlightened than the onlooker. There is no end as there was no beginning. Awakening/Enlightenment always was and always is and always will be. Seems that it would be very boring if the Music stopped and the Dance ended {8-( Do not think in terms of the future Dear Friend, think in terms of the Present Moment {8-)
Namaste, ej
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 00:41:25 +0200
Greetings E.J,
The 'who am I' practice is what we call 'self inquiry'. There is a > Zen tale about Zhuangzi who once dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly > flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he > pleased. > He did not know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, > solid and unmistakably Zhuangzi. But he did not know if he was > Zhuangzi > who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was > Zhuangzi. > So who really are we, just a dream? We have to find out before we can > Awaken. Jesus said that we had to "know thyself." Are we really > anything? > Even to say we are a "soul" is to say we are something. It is all in > the > identification, regardless of whether we identity with our outer > aspects or > our inner aspect it is still identification. Why identify with > anything? > Why even identify with yourself? Why not just BE?
So is it correct to say we are "just a dream" awakening to only BEing just Is = only What-Is? Is it correct to say that if we are "just a dream" than the life we live in this world is just a reflection of "just a dream"? Like a reflection of the sun in the water? The dreamer or the dream? The sun or the reflection of the sun? Not easy task this 'self inquiry' . Often I get all mixed up! I think that's why you say that meditation is a great help in clearing our mind up, just like spring cleaning! > > ->> There really is no *goal*, though we talk in those terms. > ->> Actually there is just BEing. And no one to BE. And nothing to > BE. There is > ->> just Awakening. There is just BEing. > -> > ->Yes, do you mean to realise that we are to awake to just BEing. > BEing > ->is a state. > > Yes we refer to BEing as a state, but actually BEing just IS. > When we > use words we must realize their limitations. Thus we must look at the > space between the words to get a fuller meaning. BEing is really all > there > is, we just fool ourselves by thinking that there is something other > than > BEing. We ARE, we can BE. Conditioned man is a Dualist so there has > to be > something other than What-IS. When unconditioned then there is only > BEing > and only What-IS. Nothing BEing, and BEing nothing.
> - ->> This is the meaning of real Compassion, we can love our enemy > as we love our > ->> friend, love thy neighbor as thyself. > ->Easier to love our friend than our enemy! > > If doing the right thing was easy we would not have all the > problems > in the world {8-)
If we take our "enemy or a person who bothers us" as a challenge, as a lesson to learn = an opportunity to find exactly the point we missed out & from there eventually understand real Compassion. Than we can understand that our enemy really helped us correct ourselves, so he is understood as a real friend disguised as our enemy, because he helped us learn what disturbed us. If we are well centered = Love,Peace,Compassion, than nobody disturbs nobody. Maybe this is one way of depoluting our mind & thus help depoluting our Mother Earth ? > > ->> This is a state of mind, a state of BEing, > ->So our work is to purify our mind to have a state of BEing. > > We purify the mind by letting go of all those dear conditioned > ideas > and images and notions of all sorts. Once the conditionings no longer > direct our thinking and behavior then what remains is that state of > BEing. > > ->> Look at Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, as Krishna > ->> tells him he must battle and kill family members who are with > others > ->> who Arjuna must battle. An analogy to say to cleave to nothing > and no one > ->> in the solitary journey of Awakening. > ->"cleave to nothing and no one" = only to God as our Friend, would > that > ->be a right attitude? > > Cleave to nothing and no one! The Path to Salvation must be > Walked > ourselves Alone, no one can do it for us.
I understand that we are alone to walk the Path to Salvation, but our Friend=God=Love is always there with us like the relationship between Krishna & Ajurna. A relationship of confidence, trust & Love & with that kind of help it encourages us to continue our Path no matter what hardships we encounter. He's the captain of our ship that takes us to the other side of the shore. Kill attachment/emotion, kill the Buddha if necessary, if it gets in our way.
Just trying to understand, again thank you for all your help.
Namaste, Simone
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:21:33 -0700
->On Wed, 13 May 2009 00:41:25 +0200, you wrote: ->Greetings E.J,
Greetings Simone,
-> The 'who am I' practice is what we call 'self inquiry'. There is ->a Zen tale about Zhuangzi who once dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly ->> flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he ->> pleased. ->> He did not know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, ->> solid and unmistakably Zhuangzi. But he did not know if he was ->> Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was ->> Zhuangzi. ->> So who really are we, just a dream? We have to find out before we can ->> Awaken. Jesus said that we had to "know thyself." Are we really ->> anything? ->> Even to say we are a "soul" is to say we are something. It is all in ->> the identification, regardless of whether we identity with our outer ->> aspects or our inner aspect it is still identification. Why identify with ->> anything? ->> Why even identify with yourself? Why not just BE? -> ->So is it correct to say we are "just a dream" awakening to only BEing ->just Is = only What-Is?
Yes some do say that.
->Is it correct to say that if we are "just a dream" than the life we ->live in this world is just a reflection of "just a dream"? Like a reflection of the sun in the ->water? The dreamer or the dream? ->The sun or the reflection of the sun?
Yes that is said also.
->Not easy task this 'self inquiry' . Often I get all mixed up! I think ->that's why you say that meditation is a great help in clearing our mind up, just like spring ->cleaning!
Deep Bow
->> If doing the right thing was easy we would not have all the ->> problems in the world {8-) -> ->If we take our "enemy or a person who bothers us" as a challenge, as a ->lesson to learn = an opportunity to find exactly the point we missed out & from there eventually ->understand real Compassion. Than we can understand that our enemy really helped us ->correct ourselves, so he is understood as a real friend disguised as our enemy, because he ->helped us learn what disturbed us. If we are well centered = ->Love,Peace,Compassion, than nobody disturbs nobody. Maybe this is one way of depoluting our mind & ->thus help depoluting our Mother Earth ?
Precisely.
->> Cleave to nothing and no one! The Path to Salvation must be ->> Walked ourselves Alone, no one can do it for us. -> ->I understand that we are alone to walk the Path to Salvation, but our ->Friend=God=Love is always there with us like the relationship between Krishna & Ajurna.
The analogy personification of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita is really more like a Master and Disciple situation. You see, in the Hindu theology Krishna would be a particular aspect of what Hindus feel God would possess if God could be fathomed. So in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna takes on the role of Supreme Teacher and Arjuna as Disciplined Student. Westerners tend to limit God in many ways by making God something personal or physical. Actually all we can really do in our feeble state as humans are fathom various aspects of what we could imagine what God would be like if we were Awake enough to fathom God. Even in Christendom's Bible it says that Moses when he went up on the mountain to get the Ten Commandments could not look upon the face of God because it would be too overwhelming for him to do so. That is not a clue that God is not fathomable?
-> A relationship of confidence, trust & Love & with that kind of help it encourages us ->to continue our Path no matter what hardships we encounter. He's the captain of our ship ->that takes us to the other side of the shore. Kill attachment/emotion, kill the Buddha if ->necessary, if it gets in our way.
What do you think the Buddha is? What concept needs to be killed? What crutch needs to be discarded? What attached notion needs to be let go?
->Just trying to understand, again thank you for all your help.
Precisely, as we all are.
"And where are the people, O Lord?" I said, "The earth below and the sky o'erhead, And the dead whom once I knew?" "That was a dream" God smiled and said, "A dream that seemed to be true, There were no people, living or dead, There was no earth and no sky o'erhead, There is only myself AS you."
You who have the Light, what are you doing with it?
Shanti, ej
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Subject: Ray Of Light
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 15:13:55 -0700
"It is all the mind can do - discover the unreal as unreal. The problem is only mental. Abandon false ideas, that is all. There is no need of true ideas. There aren't any." -- Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 02:52:12 +0200
Greetings E.J,
> > > ->> Cleave to nothing and no one! The Path to Salvation must be > ->> Walked ourselves Alone, no one can do it for us. > -> > ->I understand that we are alone to walk the Path to Salvation, but our > ->Friend=God=Love is always there with us like the relationship > between Krishna & Ajurna. > > The analogy personification of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad > Gita > is really more like a Master and Disciple situation.
So Krishna= Master who represents God on Earth= Supreme Teacher, teaching the disciple how to walk the Path to Salvation.
> You see, in the Hindu theology Krishna would be a particular aspect > of what Hindus feel God would > possess if God could be fathomed. They have so many gods & godesses which represents the different aspects of God, their way I suppose to fathom God. > So in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna takes on > the role of Supreme Teacher and Arjuna as Disciplined Student. > Westerners > tend to limit God in many ways by making God something personal or > physical.
I do like the idea that God is our best Friend. > Actually all we can really do in our feeble state as humans are > fathom various aspects of what we could imagine what God would be like > if > we were Awake enough to fathom God. Even in Christendom's Bible it > says > that Moses when he went up on the mountain to get the Ten Commandments > could not look upon the face of God because it would be too > overwhelming > for him to do so. That is not a clue that God is not fathomable?
I believe we can communicate with God in different ways& when we are ready we shall blossom like a flower & God shall be revealed to us= Awakened. Meanwhile, it is said also, when we are ready the Master will appear. > > -> A relationship of confidence, trust & Love & with that kind of > help it encourages us > ->to continue our Path no matter what hardships we encounter. He's > the captain of our ship > ->that takes us to the other side of the shore. Kill > attachment/emotion, kill the Buddha if > ->necessary, if it gets in our way. > > What do you think the Buddha is? Buddha represents the Supreme Teacher like Krishna, who shows us the Path to Salvation. Wisdom is his aspect, like Jesus Christ taught Love. When Buddha lived on earth, he fathomed &taught how to overcome different sufferings a man could encounter on this earth.
> What concept needs to be killed?
The need of security outside of us, because everything on this earth is subject to change & this notion will lead us towards deception, confusion, fear.
> What crutch needs to be discarded?
Dependance of anything outside of us. We forget that we have our own "Light" in us and we always go looking outside of us for that sucurity. For God said "There is only myself AS you".
> What attached notion needs to be let > go?
All our lives we are a prisoner of an illusion we created ourselves, the fear of loosing our own ego.
I don't know if I got this one right ? just trying to understand as usual.
> > "And where are the people, O Lord?" I said, > "The earth below and the sky o'erhead, > And the dead whom once I knew?" > "That was a dream" God smiled and said, > "A dream that seemed to be true, > There were no people, living or dead, > There was no earth and no sky o'erhead, > There is only myself AS you." > > You who have the Light, what are you doing with it?
Since we have the Light , we should go in us & find it there, where dwells Peace, Love, Compassion.
Peace to you too,
Simone
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Subject: Re: From Gautama Siddhartha Buddha's Dhammapada
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:16:34 -0700
->On Thu, 14 May 2009 02:52:12 +0200, you wrote: -> Greetings E.J, -> ->> The analogy personification of Krishna and Arjuna in the Bhagavad ->> Gita is really more like a Master and Disciple situation. -> ->So Krishna= Master who represents God on Earth= Supreme Teacher, ->teaching the disciple how to walk the Path to Salvation.
Not really God on Earth but rather aspects of how God would be like if we could define God. It is like the fact that we can not hold onto Truth or Reality, all we can do is Point in its direction in the hopes that others may grasp some Truth and Reality also.
->> You see, in the Hindu theology Krishna would be a particular aspect ->> of what Hindus feel God would ->> possess if God could be fathomed. ->They have so many gods & godesses which represents the different ->aspects of God, their way I suppose to fathom God.
Yes on the surface many Gods and Goddesses, but actually they are really just aspects of what God would be like if we could define God. Easterners tend to have a very good grasp of God, they just do not try to define the indefinable.
->> "And where are the people, O Lord?" I said, ->> "The earth below and the sky o'erhead, ->> And the dead whom once I knew?" ->> "That was a dream" God smiled and said, ->> "A dream that seemed to be true, ->> There were no people, living or dead, ->> There was no earth and no sky o'erhead, ->> There is only myself AS you." ->> ->> You who have the Light, what are you doing with it? -> ->Since we have the Light , we should go in us & find it there, ->where dwells Peace, Love, Compassion.
Just don't hide it under a bushel Dear Friend {8-)
Be Well and Mindful, ej
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Subject: Re: Ray Of Light
From: "cyrille.simone.andrieu" <cyrille.simone.andrieu@wanadoo.fr> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 03:29:27 +0200
Greeting E.J,
I think Nisargadatta Maharaj is saying that the mind is very limited & will not help us find the Truth for the mind is very rational (all problems derive from our mind but we need it for everyday living & is useful only for worldly use. Like going to work to make a living, household work or anything we need to live with this body. The mind leads us towards illusion "the unreal as unreal" giving us false ideas that we as an individual are very important. Ideas derive from the mental, so anything coming from the mental will not help us on our Path towards Salvation.
Namaste,
Simone
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Subject: Re: Ray Of Light
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 19:38:37 -0700
->On Thu, 14 May 2009 03:29:27 +0200, you wrote: ->Greeting E.J,
Greetings Simone,
->I think Nisargadatta Maharaj is saying that the mind is very limited & ->will not help us find the Truth for the mind is very rational (all ->problems ->derive from our mind but we need it for everyday living & is useful ->only for worldly use. Like going to work to make a ->living, household work or anything we need to live with this body. ->The mind leads us towards illusion "the unreal as unreal" giving us ->false ideas that we as an individual are very important. Ideas derive ->from the mental, so anything coming from the mental will not ->help us on our Path towards Salvation.
Nisargadatta Maharaj also points out that ANY idea if false {8-) A true idea is like Dry Lake or Numb Sensation or Stand Down or Grape Nuts or Hell's Angels or Plastic Glass - oxymorons {8-)
Be Well and Mindful Dear Friend, ej
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Subject: The Concept of God
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:00:14 -0700
"Ishvara (God) is seen as an object as a tree is an object. Your point of view in respect of the Absolute is called Ishvara (God). It is a point of view only, it does not really exist. If you cease to exist, it also goes. You will not see Ishvara when you reach the Absolute. It is like an X in mathematics. It is a great help in finding a solution but it is not in itself existing there. Without it you cannot have the solution and it in itself has no meaning. Ishvara (God) cannot be avoided as long as the world is seen with your eyes. The Ishvara (God) concept is an automatic outcome of your belief in the reality of the world and when the world exists, Ishvara (God) has to exist as the cause thereof, but if the world does not exist, Ishvara (God) need not exist because if the effect is not there, what is the use of the cause?"
-- Swami Krishnananda
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Subject: Another Ray Of Light
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:28:15 -0700
"To understand the essence of things and find out one's actual nature is something that can be done by oneself. People often, so to speak, ride the donkey to search for the donkey, and the further they travel the more they go astray."
-- Mazu
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