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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ January - Page 3 ~
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Subject: Re: Mantra from the Dalai Lama
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 06:25:59 -0800
Gary: And it's about time you returned, hope you are feeling better now.
Subject: Re: Dzogchen URL
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:40:13 +0100
Dear Victor:) Thank you for the suggestion. Been had a sniff and bookmarked for reference a bit later. I had only just visited Yogayiotl's Site and had a nice read there, an enjoyable hour or so:).... mmm very addictive ;-) makes you wish the world would just go away briefly so you could spend more time there, when you know very well that there are some other things that really need doing, mundane plain and ordinaries :) .... but sooo nice to know that just around the corner there are people who bring *pointers* to enlarge one's wisdom; to offer other thoughts and pursuits. Thank you!
Subject: Mantra from the Dalai Lama
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 07:02:51 -0700
1. Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk.
2. When you lose, don't lose the lesson.
3. Follow the three Rs: Respect for self, respect for others responsibility for all your actions.
4. Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.
5. Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
6. Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship.
7. When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it.
8. Spend some time alone every day.
9. Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values.
10. Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.
11. Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.
12. A loving atmosphere in your home is the foundation for your life.
13. In disagreements with loved ones, deal only with the current situation. Don't bring up the past.
14. Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality.
15. Be gentle with the earth.
16. Once a year, go someplace you've never been before.
17. Remember that the best relationship is one in which your love for each other exceeds your need for each other.
18. Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.
19. Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon.
Subject: re: The Dahlai Lama
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:09:42 -0800
Hi Gary: I have number 10 written on the top of my computer monitor. It is something I see everytime I get on the computer. And I did not know where I got it. Thanks for the whole list also. love, Jac-
10. Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 05:44:45 GMT
Greetings Community,
Have you considered that your effort IS What-IS. It IS Truth. In fact the course you do is the very course that 99.99% of all Seekers take in their Quest of Unfolding Awakening. But they, as your efforts, overlook or treat it as insignificant the element of conditioned ideas and images and meanings. Consequently very few Truly start Awakening because they do not address this element of conditioning adequately, and it is not stressed by those wonderful Awakened East Indians and Asians in their Mission to Help us Sleeping Westerners. This is not to slight the efforts of these great Sages in the least, it is that they have no way of Realizing what stranglehold that conditioning has on the Sleeping Western World unless they have lived here an extended time. Hence, Westerners tend to *re-condition* themselves to this new *practice* and *think* that they have discarded the necessary conditioned thinking when all they did was substitute one conditioned way of thinking for another.
These great Sages from the East strike out on a Mission IN Compassion to Help the Western Slumbering World. When they get here they are a bit dumbfounded at the lack Openness and Honesty us Westerners are so immersed in, not only outwardly with others but also with themselves. Most set up their organization in the hopes that the sheer dedication to the practice will perhaps help cleanse the toxins from our perception. They are successful in gathering followers, but mostly they leave this physical plane knowingly unsuccessful in their primary Mission of Helping to Awaken the Western World. My statements here apply to the 99.99% as a general statement and not to the .01% who actually DO start Awakening due to the efforts of these practices. I have even seen Wise Teachers IN this Mission leave the organization because they saw that the practice was not accomplishing the Mission.
My question still is how could one Openly and Honestly Look at oneself in the Mirror of Truth UNLESS ALL conditioned notions are discarded ? If we Look at ourselves with the rose-colored glasses of conditioned notions, would our Observations not be tainted by the color of the glasses ? Would the mind not have to be Silent of all arising conditioned thoughts and memories FIRST ? Or are our conditioned notions of minor concern ?
We are conditioned to wear all sorts of masks not only to present ourselves to others but also to ourselves. We *believe* the fantasies that we establish about ourselves and so we become those fantasies. And in most cases we will fight to the death that it is not a fantasy. Siddhartha did indicate that we would have a very hard time getting rid of the Causes of our Suffering.
Subject: ah sweet lips of...
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:22:14 -0800
Good Morning E.J.: Now you said this in todays Ray:
> Question: how can you *follow* arising thoughts and stay in the Moment > ? *Following* those reactive thoughts is what keeps us out of the Moment. > The emotions of anger or fear or anything else can be treated the same way > that we treat arising thoughts in meditation. That is, we Observe them > and let them drift into our Silence, but we give them no energy or > attention so we Observe them drift back out of our Silence the way they > drifted in. They arise as a distraction, so you must sneakily only watch > then with your peripheral vision and act as though you do not even notice > them. If they do not capture your attention, if they do not draw energy > from you, if you do not follow them, they will fade back into the > conditioned mire that they arise from. >
This statement rings true to me. Sometimes out of the blue, a thought or a wish comes that I "think" I want a cigarette. Now I do not dwell in this thought and it soon drifts out of my focus as quickly as it came into my awareness....and any thought can be like this or emotion as long as I do not add wood to the fire to keep the fire going...without any attentiveness the fire does die out. And as some have said it is always in my memory banks but when the memory arises...it too ceases to stay in front of my nose if I turn my head to something else...like the snow melting on this sunny day and the chyme of drips from the eaves...ah sweet lips of this moment.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:42:40 -0800
>Greetings Community,
Greetings to you also,
> Have you considered that your effort IS What-IS. It IS Truth.
Yes, that's all it can be...Right now is truth, all else is fantasy of what was. I am more aware of when I am not living in the moment. To speak of what was, is bound to be interpreted by our conditioned thoughts or the inadequacy of words.
> Hence, Westerners tend to >*re-condition* themselves to this new *practice* and *think* that they have >discarded the necessary conditioned thinking when all they did was >substitute one conditioned way of thinking for another.
I have to agree through self experience. I did get tied into ritual, belief, and almost a schedule of doing all the right things. It became more of a stress than a relaxation. Just live,take one thing at a time, and allow the rest to be taken care of when the time is right.
> My question still is how could one Openly and Honestly Look at oneself >in the Mirror of Truth UNLESS ALL conditioned notions are discarded ?
Who was that masked man who said De Nile was a river in Egypt? Denial was a part of my life for a long time. I used to think I was perfect, then I learned I wasn't, now I'm back to knowing I am. 8-) > If >we Look at ourselves with the rose-colored glasses of conditioned notions, >would our Observations not be tainted by the color of the glasses ?
I feel best in dusty rose. Keep the glasses on.
> Would >the mind not have to be Silent of all arising conditioned thoughts and >memories FIRST ? Or are our conditioned notions of minor concern ?
Our conditioned notions should be our only concern, all else is folly, things to be dealt with as they need to be dealt with. In fact, no, we shouldn't be concerned- we should be aware.
> We are conditioned to wear all sorts of masks not only to present >ourselves to others but also to ourselves.
Ya, I remember finding some of mine. Ouch.
>We *believe* the fantasies >that we establish about ourselves and so we become those fantasies.
That's true too, and to add to it, we become others fantasies as well.
>And >in most cases we will fight to the death that it is not a fantasy.
Yes, but the fight is with ourselves. Have you ever noticed that it boils down to there is no one else to blame for anything. We manifest things and actions to suit ourselves. Just call each happening a spiritual moment. And so it is.
>Siddhartha did indicate that we would have a very hard time getting rid of >the Causes of our Suffering.
That's an understatement............
Subject: Re: Where's the beef?
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:52:36 GMT
Greetings Victor, you wrote: ->How do I live my life?
BE Life.
->Do I live totally within the mind churning out thoughts?
Sleeping, yes. Awakening, no.
->Am I my thoughts or do I just beleive this to be true?
"As a man thinketh, so is he". When there are no thoughts, there is no you. As Sharnanda said, "No-Mind's Land".
->Am I my body or is this just another beleif?
You ARE what/who you ARE, IN Totality. Where would the mind be without the body ? Where would the body be without the mind ? Even that complex (body/mind complex) has no functionality separated. You are as One as all else IS One.
->What am I?
You ARE, as all else IS. You limit yourself by wanting to differentiate the Whole into it's parts. Dualism is afoot Dear Friend.
->When I want an answer to a question where does it come from?
The question. How can there be an answer apart form the question ?
->Does it come from within the thought process?
The mind is the operating system to facilitate any Realizations (answers as you call them). But the mind is but a facilitator and the thoughts are but clutter.
->Or does it just incubate and spring out totally perfectly answered?
"Incubate", that is good. And answers are *hatched* {8-> Is there an egg ? Did it come first, or did the chicken ? Plastic chickens do not lay eggs, other than in Hollywood. And neither the plastic chicken nor the plastic eggs they lay are very tasty.
->Can I just be still and listen for truth?
Of course. And when you hear it give it one of those plastic chickens or one of those plastic eggs, or give it the whole farm. In fact, if you here it you have already given it the farm.
->Or can I only get my truth from my blathering mind?
If you get any truth, try breeding it with the plastic chickens because it could be a saleable product. Oh, forgot, if you get it you will have to trade the farm for it so you can not do any breeding. Or maybe just chop it up and give little parts to others, that would be generous of you. Yet I wonder, if Truth can not be found and can not be possessed, who would have it to give to you and how could you receive it.
->Am I suffering when I'm totally silent?
You could be, but Suffering is the resultant of Sleeping. Sleeping is the resultant of the mind running toxic conditioned programs. IN True Silence we Hear.
->Am I suffering when I'm caught up in mind thoughts?
You could be, but Suffering is the resultant of Sleeping. Sleeping is the resultant of the mind running toxic conditioned programs. IN True Silence there are no thoughts.
->Hmm?
Indeed, Ponder this: questions are most valuable when we question our own modus operandi, our own program folder. Other questions are more entertainment than anything else.
Anyone else care to comment ?
Subject: waking
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:49:22 -0800
as i sleep the snow falls without crying out come out and see how beautiful i am....
and then I wake up and discover that light is dancing up from the ground and the winter grey is Oh so bright.
Subject: Oh My
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:02:13 -0800
Depression does not meet me in the streets; for yesterdays are faded in the colors of today.
And tomorrows do not beckon me, tis this day,--the jamborees and knees of instant symphonies
Don't you see, no you don't! cause you shut the eye and live way back there where cobwebs cry...
Oh my wake up, my dear!
Subject: Re: Oh My
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 04:14:10 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: -> Depression does not meet me in the streets; ->for yesterdays are faded in the colors of today.
You can't have a party 'til you invite yourself Though we mix the Elixir can't be on the shelf,
-> And tomorrows do not beckon me, tis -> this day,--the jamborees and knees of instant -> symphonies
Back and forth is not anew as today's Dance There is no Real music other than this very chance,
->Don't you see, -> no you don't! ->cause you shut the eye and live ->way back there ->where cobwebs cry...
You've got to cross the bridge before you know You've got to make adjustments and let go, No one to do it and no one to really see When you look for it you can not BE,
->Oh my ->wake up, my ->dear!
Oh my oh my wake up in turn Can't light a fire where it won't burn,
->as i sleep ->the snow falls without crying out -> come out and see how beautiful i am....
Rip van winkle come back from sleep The snow that falls is way too deep, Come out and play do not sit and weep 'Tis morning sun and no beepity beep,
->and then I wake up
Now I lay me down to sleep My old bones to keep,
->and discover that light is dancing
Across the water the stone does skip Watch for the sink hole or you'll trip,
->up from the ground What can be found,
->and the winter grey Says there's naught to say,
->is Oh so bright. So we Dance the night, Skippity skip Do not trip, Take a sip Don't burn your lip.
Subject: Re: Oh My
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:18:24 -0800
yep, E.J....this place aint dead afterall....<smile>
Subject: ~ To BE Or Not ~
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:37:07 GMT
Greetings Community,
One of the old masters was asked "what is the Way ?", and the old master took his brush and wrote the character for "attention". The monks ask, "is there anything else ?" The master wrote: "attention, attention". The monks say, "that's it !?!" The master writes: "Attention ! Attention ! Attention !"
~ To BE Or Not ~
© 2001 by Yogajyotii
Subject: Fear?
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 06:20:15 -0800
It was offered, IF fear was an "Animal instinct built into our genetic code", how would you account for those who display no fear ? Display no fear naturally, that is, without any prior influence or conditioning to the contrary. Such as: do you see fear in the new born babe ? Or form the animals that we domesticate for pets ? Or in the plant and mineral kingdoms ? Or even in the elementals or angels. Nowhere, I dare say, will you see fear in the natural state -- other than, of course, Sleeping humanity.
I will disagree with the no fear in domesticated animals. Once they are conditioned to living with people, you see fear and shame when they have done something wrong. Granted, it is instilled by anger of the human. Caged birds show fear of the unknown, they get accustomed to those they live with, but fear strangers.
As far as I am concerned, we have domesticated animals far beyond the reason it was first intended for, which was protection from other wild animals, or food.
But then, humans have always put their own comfort and desires before that of the animal kingdom.
As they say, if you want to play king, buy a dog.
This isn't said to take away the beneficial attributes that animals provide. The feeling of not being alone. They also say that older people live longer if they have a pet.
We have created a monster by domesticating animals for pets. Just check with the local S. P. C. A. When we don't want what we helped create, we give them away to be put to death. We are an accessory to murder. Does it matter if the soul has 2 legs or 4?
Just a thought. Any rebuttal?
Subject: Re: Fear?
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:22:10 -0800
>Hi EJ , > > For the life of me I can not see any soggy corn flakes in either >offering, perhaps you could elaborate upon the difference between "Display >no fear naturally, that is, without any prior influence or conditioning to >the contrary" and "Once they are conditioned to living with people, you see >fear and shame when they have done something wrong".
Well how else do we see if anyone is awake or not around here? It's been so silent. Just wanted to hear some breathing or chewing,
HA!
Subject: du ah du
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:26:40 -0800
fear does not exist except when one believes it and concieves it and turns it into a conditioning and itsdesires then perpepetuate one false thing upon another.
in the silence the winter melts into a rose.
Subject: hi re: fear
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:40:44 -0800
Hi Gary: and my dog shows me lots of love too and teaches me to wag my tail...tee hee. glad your alive
.j >Misty displays no fear nor does she act out of fear. That is because she was raised with only love. When she does something that does not quite fit into the human lifestyle, I gently *teach* her otherwise - she has no problems with this. <
Subject: re: fear?
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:03:58 -0800
hi Sharlene...
All you said is interesting. When I got my dog (Amy) from the pound, she had some fears and still has some fears. She goes nuts and shakes all over when near water, and also when skateboards go by. Yet she is not fearful of lightening, storms, and other loud noises such as firecrackers on the fourth of July. I do not know how she got the fears but she does. I suspect also that she was not treated well either. Now her fear of water may be inborn also in that some dogs don't go near water while water dogs do....but that may be a cautionary thing...and I think because she shakes she has fear. I do not know why my dog shakes when it seems she is nervous about something and so\uddenly drops a pile of hair just like that?
Subject: now
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:23:45 -0800
I came here (cause invited) and then got curious....now I don't know why it is, but now much has changed and I wonder if health is a product of this (finding out about conditioning)....now I don't mind getting on the stair stepper, getting on the floor rolling the rolling pin (my machine for abs) and changing the way I eat. It all decided cause I quit smoking. Now I drink water also and I use to detest drinking water. Now I am not one step closer to awakening but my weight is coming off, my lungs are happier, and I also am no longer depressed. Now, about the other subject, fear here...I think fear is learned and therefore can be unlearned. I can tolerate lightening storms now which use to send me under the bed and now I am slowly embracing it... I may jump some times but the jumps are less often and the screams only when someone startles me...this too is just the way it Is.
Subject: re: fear?
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:05:26 -0800
>Hi Jacquie,
You wrote:
>I do not know why my dog shakes >when it seems she is nervous about something and so\uddenly drops a pile >of hair just like that?
Since I've been spending time at my friends pet store, I have learned that dogs and cats will drop their hair in clumps from a nervous condition. This stems from being abused as a pup. So you are right on with your thinking,
Subject: Re: Fear?
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:33:58 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Any rebuttal?
Now really, rather wonder about the disagreement between:
->It was offered, ->IF fear was an "Animal instinct built into our genetic code", how ->would you account for those who display no fear ? Display no fear ->naturally, that is, without any prior influence or conditioning to the ->contrary. Such as: do you see fear in the new born babe ? Or form the ->animals that we domesticate for pets ? Or in the plant and mineral ->kingdoms ? Or even in the elementals or angels. Nowhere, I dare say, ->will you see fear in the natural state -- other than, of course, Sleeping ->humanity.
And:
->Your offering: ->I will disagree with the no fear in domesticated animals. Once they are ->conditioned to living with people, you see fear and shame when they have ->done something wrong. Granted, it is instilled by anger of the human. Caged ->birds show fear of the unknown, they get accustomed to those they live ->with, but fear strangers.
For the life of me I can not see any soggy corn flakes in either offering, perhaps you could elaborate upon the difference between "Display no fear naturally, that is, without any prior influence or conditioning to the contrary" and "Once they are conditioned to living with people, you see fear and shame when they have done something wrong".
Subject: Re: fear?
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:10:58 -0800
Thankyou Sharlene...She, my dog is in a loving home now, so that is the main thing.
Subject: Re: Fear?
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:18:41 GMT
Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->Well how else do we see if anyone is awake or not around here? ->It's been so silent. ->Just wanted to hear some breathing or chewing,
Oh. Well...... I was wondering....... if some critter did something in your corn flakes this morning {8-> But obviously your respiration trick worked. With that:
~ Rhythm and Rhyme ~
© 2001 Yogajyotii
Subject: Re: Fear?
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:34:14 -0800
Gary.. Where have you been other than the sick bed?
> What you say of domesticated animals is true (but) that precisely > reflects back to humans as to how they "condition" everything and > everyone in their paths!
Sad but true.
> I have a North American Cocker Spaniel, called Misty.
My daughter also has one of those, named Java for her colour and the fact she likes to eat spilled coffee beans.
>She has been with me since she was 5 weeks old, she is now 11 yo. Misty >displays no fear nor does she act out of fear. That is because she was >raised with only love. When she does something that does not quite fit >into the human lifestyle, I gently *teach* her otherwise - she has no >problems with this.
I understand what you say about teaching with love. But can we teach our lifestyle without calling it conditioning. What happens when they don't learn? We get angry and get rid of them or make them into outside dogs.
>So in the end what this tells me is that we (all) must have respect for >the other, be that other human, animal or vegetable.
Very true.
> Therein lies the problem ~ most of humankind barely respect their > self, let alone another. > Humans have a bad case of attitude ill-ness which needs to be addressed.
Again I agree. And some animals also have an attitude problem. Why wouldn't they, being taken away from their natural habitats, which are long forgotten. Or when we do them up, prance them around like an extension of the you know what? That is far from natural. Or train them to be killers. Humans are crazy with control issues. Most can't control their own lives, so they need something they can control.
>My two cents worth <G>
And it's worth every penny.
Love to you, great to see you.
Subject: Re: Fear?
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:06:14 -0700
Hi Sharlene! What you say of domesticated animals is true (but) that precisely reflects back to humans as to how they "condition" everything and everyone in their paths! I have a North American Cocker Spaniel, called Misty. She has been with me since she was 5 weeks old, she is now 11 yo. Misty displays no fear nor does she act out of fear. That is because she was raised with only love. When she does something that does not quite fit into the human lifestyle, I gently *teach* her otherwise - she has no problems with this. And ~ at the same time I as a human recognize that she is an animal that acts out of her *natural* instincts and I respect that. So in the end what this tells me is that we (all) must have respect for the other, be that other human, animal or vegetable. Therein lies the problem ~ most of humankind barely respect their self, let alone another. Humans have a bad case of attitude ill-ness which needs to be addressed.
My two cents worth <G>
Subject: Re: now
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:04:28 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->I came here (cause invited) and then got curious....now I don't know why ->it is, but now much has changed and I wonder if health is a product of this ->(finding out about conditioning)....now I don't mind getting on the ->stair stepper, getting on the floor rolling the rolling pin (my machine ->for abs) and changing the way I eat. It all decided cause I quit ->smoking. Now I drink water also and I use to detest drinking water. Now ->I am not one step closer to awakening but my weight is coming off, my ->lungs are happier, and I also am no longer depressed. Now, about the ->other subject, fear here...I think fear is learned and therefore can be ->unlearned. I can tolerate lightening storms now which use to send me ->under the bed and now I am slowly embracing it... ->I may jump some times but the jumps are less often and the screams only ->when someone startles me...this too is just the way it Is.
A seeming *coincidence* indeed. You are simply *Witnessing* Directly a certain Clarity that is a Natural Unfolding of our True Nature. Not Enlightenment, not Masters of the Wisdom, and nothing to really brag about, just a certain Clarity of everything. And yes, the resulting Peace of Mind affects our whole body quite psychosomaticly. So, perhaps one would think that Awakening is not worth giving up all those dear conditioned notions, but giving up some of them can do some awesome things to our body and our perception. THEN, when Directly Experienced, we start to get the Drift about what Waking-Up really is. Yes Dear Friend, you have a thick skull so it took a while for some of this to sink in, but your patience and persistence I would say is paying off. No ?
Subject: Ah re: your response
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:04:38 -0800
Hi E.J., you answered:
> A seeming *coincidence* indeed. > Are there such things as coincidences, or is this the side affects of being here among you and in this oasis.?
> You are simply *Witnessing* Directly > a certain Clarity that is a Natural Unfolding of our True Nature. > Ah....now I must continue for it is Awesome, and Terrible (in a good sense) too.
> Not > Enlightenment, not Masters of the Wisdom, and nothing to really brag about, > just a certain Clarity of everything. > Ah, you put in words what I am wordless about.
> And yes, the resulting Peace of > Mind affects our whole body quite psychosomaticly. > Its living in this moment, not yesterdays or tommorrows moments but this moment and discarding the waste products of Mr. Trickster bit by bit and tic by tic. No one knows what I just said except a few perhaps.
> So, perhaps one would > think that Awakening is not worth giving up all those dear conditioned > notions, but giving up some of them can do some awesome things to our body > and our perception. THEN, when Directly Experienced, we start to get the > Drift about what Waking-Up really is. > Ah....
> Yes Dear Friend, you have a thick > skull so it took a while for some of this to sink in, but your patience and > persistence I would say is paying off. > Perhaps I had to shed some pounds of fear and trepiditions....that moment before you let go of the rubber raft as you sink to your psychic death in the sea of the unknown.
> No ? >
<smile>.....ah companion along the way....no one can save us, yes....but we must walk the way one by one into the mouth of the dragon I go oh dragon slayer.
Subject: Re: Ah re: your response
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 04:00:27 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Are there such things as coincidences, or is this the side affects of ->being here among you and in this oasis.?
Yes, the *seeming* coincidence is that this is happening and you are here at the Oasis. No coincidence really, that is what Light Mission and the Oasis is here for. But not just because you are here, but rather because you are here AND Open to it. We can immerse ourself in all the Wisdom in the world, but all we will do is drowned if we are not Open to it and Honest with it. I offer nothing that has not been offered before or is not being presently offered elsewhere. Though admittedly, True offerings are rare and not easily spotted.
-><smile>.....ah companion along the way....no one can save us, yes....but ->we must walk the way one by one into the mouth of the dragon I go oh ->dragon slayer.
The Dragon Points the Way to the Slayer, for it is the Slayer we must Slay -- the Slayer of Truth/Reality must be Slain.
Subject: Today is what is
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:59:59 -0800
Call these thoughts, call them ramblings,whatever they are, these are the moment.
I thought about writing these things privately, then thought again about being open/honest and sharing and being what is- the moment.
Today I feel sadness. Sadness for all those that suffer due to their own blindness. I am surrounded, I feel like an island in the middle of despair attracting this stuff to me. Everyone wanting answers, nobody hears, nobody listens, everyone wants to be saved, but won't do the work to achieve it for themselves.
My Dad asks me if I am okay, I answer yes, I am not depressed. I witness an alcoholic brother that speaks and lives within duality and lies, false promises, abusing the Father son relationship, because no one else gets drawn into his illusions. I see a Father that thinks if he loves harder and takes care of the son, the son will wake up one day and see the light. I see a Mother that is aware of both, and can't see away to accomplish anything. To take it farther, I see a Father that controls silently, and quietly. He tells me I am mean, and that I don't love my Brother because I want to hurt him by speaking bluntly telling him he needs help and only he can ask for it. I tell him that I am only here to make it a safe house from physical injury, and to walk with him when he decides he wants to live. We have 2 control people, each one not able to recognize this in each other, or in self. I see friends that suffer and cry out from their pain, wanting change in their lives, and not knowing how to do this. It's not my job to tell them, I can only ask or question. I see things that I can't speak. I see suffering everywhere I look, and I cry for their pain. I see an ex husband that invites me back with words of an illusionary love, a love mixed with conditions and ultimatums. I have a friend that reaches the edge of the void, and fear pulls him back into his illusions. The fear of the great space of nothingness. Not realizing the wholeness within that space. I see self appointed guru's and teachers who are blind to their sources of their own pain. Who can not feel and see this pain in the world and not cry, who can feel and see this pain without seeing yourself in all? We will not become no frog, no jump until we first become the tadpole with legs to start the walk.
I just don't know. Throwing arms up in the air, and going for coffee......and yes, I will drink it while it's hot......savoring every swallow. Then off again to the Pet store to talk to the animals.
Subject: Re: Today is what is
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:25:37 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->I just don't know. Throwing arms up in the air, and going for ->coffee......and yes, I will drink it while it's hot......savoring every ->swallow. Then off again to the Pet store to talk to the animals.
Thank you for sharing your Moment........ *of Hell*. Yes, things do get to a point of frustration when you pour your heart into Helping someone and they just say "pass the corn flakes". Many efforts go to waste this way. The wheels spin but the vehicle goes nowhere. No matter what the situation, nothing is worth the destruction of our own Peace of Mind, so Peace of Mind is never forfeited for any reason. Those you try to Help walling you out, consider: with some there is only so much that can be done, the rest you must leave up to the mysterious working of the Cosmos. That is, you can not get coconut oil out of a peanut so there is little use in trying to. Just because you offer a gift does not mean that it will be accepted. If it is accepted and enjoyed, good, if not, then tuck it away and give it to another. Being effected by the rejection is attachment, and there lies the Pain and frustration. Attachment to succeeding, or attachment to the situation in some way. Healing others is most honorable, but we can not take the infliction on ourself in the Healing for then the Healer is then inflicted (defiled). We can not Heal the blind when we are blind, as we can not Heal the sick when we are sick. We must BE the Healing that is offered.
~ Of Rules and Fools ~
© 2001 Yogajyotii
Subject: Re: Today is what is
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:02:25 -0800
>Ej wrote: > Thank you for sharing your Moment........ *of Hell*. Yes, things do >get to a point of frustration when you pour your heart into Helping someone >and they just say "pass the corn flakes".
Hell isn't the right word exactly, I just felt sadness for those who sleep so soundly. I don't cry for myself, I am okay, just frustrated by those who speak change and do nothing to change.
>Many efforts go to waste this >way. The wheels spin but the vehicle goes nowhere.
I learned awhile ago to speak when the time is right, and let it go in between. I do not like to be harped to, therefore harp to no one. I pick my times carefully.
> No matter what the >situation, nothing is worth the destruction of our own Peace of Mind, so >Peace of Mind is never forfeited for any reason.
Thats why many moments of silence in between. Other than the day to day, passing of the cornflakes, I pour my own so they don't get P* ed on.
> Those you try to Help >walling you out, consider: with some there is only so much that can be >done, the rest you must leave up to the mysterious working of the Cosmos.
I am the comos......lol
>That is, you can not get coconut oil out of a peanut so there is little use >in trying to. Just because you offer a gift does not mean that it will be >accepted.
Then it is not a gift but an intrusion. Again why I wait........
> Being effected by the rejection is attachment, >and there lies the Pain and frustration.
My thoughts aren't rejected. Nor am I......Fear is the hardest thing to overcome. Dad mistakes saving from enabling. brick wall.
>Attachment to succeeding, or >attachment to the situation in some way. > Healing others is most >honorable, but we can not take the infliction on ourself in the Healing for >then the Healer is then inflicted (defiled). We can not Heal the blind >when we are blind, as we can not Heal the sick when we are sick. We must >BE the Healing that is offered.
I am not after healing anyone... I am after providing a physically safe environment for the old folks. That means getting bro to leave to get sober. I would have him physically ejected but Dad won't agree, and that's where he thinks I am mean. He doesn't understand about hitting a bottom or dark night before you wake up.
Nice poetry.
Through my discussions with Dad, I have told him that Bro will not quit unless he hits hard times, or suffers some shock of reality. Dad knows this. I have also said that taking care of him and making it easy for him to drink, with no responsibilities, is avoidance of that responsibility. I have also said that it is not safe for them to have him downstairs. We have had one fire, and now almost 2 more. Plus the fact that before I got here, he physically abused Dad. My other Brothers have thrown him out before, and Dad lets him back in at first whimper. So do I give up and allow him to kill both of them before something gets done? Or do I keep on talking and staying? If I can't talk, I won't stay......it's not a safe physical environment for me either, not that physical abuse towards anyone since I came has taken place, the fact of the fires enough. This is crazy, Dad is 84 and Mom 77, Why shouldn't they be safe? My Dad is blinded by this Son of his, he has Dad wrapped around his fingers. What he doesn't realize, truth be known, is all the anger that Bro has towards him. I gave up on talking to Bro about quitting, God knows, you can't talk to a drunk. I tried twice, just to offer support where I could give it, like rides to AA. Other than that, nothing, it's Dad that needs to wake up. In the last month, it's gotten bad enough that Bro has his booze delivered, because he can't walk to pick it up. Is it any wonder why I throw my arms in the air and leave the house? If i didn't, I would throw him out and Dad with him.
Today is another in the cycle I recognize so well. It's time to quit day. Sick, shaking and feeling sorry for him. This will last a day or 2 and it will start all over again. But while he is on a sober day, lets forget the drunk days. Sorry, it doesn't work. Nothing works but a dark night and some aren't ready to do face that.
Even a sober week doesn't do it, all that does is make them feel more in control. I feel good now, and I can handle having a drink now and then. I have heard it all in the last ten years. It's all a lie. Dad believes those lies because he wants to. None of us can sway his thinking or get through to him. What control this man has, both of them. They live for each other I guess.
Mom threatens to leave and Dad conveniently feels poorly again. Stays in bed until 5 pm or so. Calls for service. Then he gets up and takes over the TV for sports until he goes to bed. Then the next day it starts all over again. Don't get me totally wrong, he is a nice man, full of love, but that love is misdirected or misused when it comes to the Bro. The Bro comes first because the Bro is sick. He gets mad at Mom because she won't hold the Bro's hand like he does.
Frustrated, yes, I am. because I don't know what to do anymore. Why should my Mother, at her age have to take care of a drunk and a sick husband? Or be forced to leave her home for her own safety? There may not be any other choice..........and the 2 of them can go into a hell of their own making. She is almost ready to make that choice.
Ramble ramble ramble.
Subject: Listen to the wise sage.
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:39:32 -0700
Yogajyotii said it well.~
Ah yes Sharlene, sometimes, no matter how noble our intentions are, a line must be drawn in the sand. Not an easy thing to do when family is involved. Nevertheless, difficult as it can be, we must take a deep breath and turn away and say ... "No - no more." Emotional black-mail is one of the ugliest and most painful of experience I have encountered. If it doesn't kill one, it will at the very least make one very ill. In my case it effected my sight and mobility. Take care of yourself .... it is a responsibility, not selfishness as some would have us believe.
Subject: Of Kings and Knaves
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:11:36 GMT
~ Of Kings and Knaves ~
© 2001 by Yogajyotii
Subject: Ponderings
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:50:42 -0800
These are my questions in this moment Why do so many take something simple and make it so complicated? Why do people use so many words to say so little when so much can be said with few words? Is it because we relish the feeling of being wise when we think we understand what someone is saying? Why do so many Wise men speak in riddles? What is the attraction we have to words and speech? Why do we fill our lives with so much noise when in silence there is only peace and joy? Why do we fill our minds with truths, only to find truth in an empty mind? Why do we cling to suffering?
Subject: Poor?
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:22:07 GMT
Greetings Community,
Just thought I would share this piece sent to me:
--------<start quote>-------------- Poor?
How Poor Are We?? One day, a father of a very wealthy family took his son on a trip to the country with the firm purpose of showing him how poor people can be. They spent a couple of days and nights on the farm of what would be considered a very poor family. On their return from the trip, the father asked his son, "How was the trip?" "It was great, Dad." "Did you see how poor people can be?" asked the father. The son answered, "I saw that we have one dog and they have four. We have a pool that reaches to the middle of our garden and they have a creek that has no end. We have imported lanterns in our garden and they have the stars at night." "Our patio reaches to the front yard and they have the whole horizon. We have a small piece of land to live on and they have fields that go beyond our sight. We have servants who serve us, but they serve others." "We buy our food, but they grow theirs. We have walls around our property to protect us and they have friends to protect them." With this, the boy's father was speechless. Then his son added, "Thanks, Dad, for showing me how poor we are." Too many times we forget what we have and concentrate on what we don't have. What is one person's worthless object is another's prize possession. It is all based on one's perspective. ------------<end quote>-------------------
"From out of the mouths of babes". It is all based on one's conditioned perception.
Subject: Re: Ponderings
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:07:33 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->These are my questions in this moment -> ->Why do so many take something simple and make it so complicated?
It is simpler to complicate than to simplify. It is simpler to add on than to let go. It is simpler to build on and around than to tare down and rebuild.
->Why do people use so many words to say so little ->when so much can be said with few words?
It is simpler to complicate than to simplify. The mind chatters, thus, so too the mouth chatters.
->Is it because we relish the feeling of being wise when we think we ->understand what someone is saying? Why do so many Wise men speak in riddles?
They do not speak in riddles, they simplify.
->What is the attraction we have to words and speech?
It is simpler to Talk than to Walk.
->Why do we fill our lives with so much noise when in silence there is only ->peace and joy?
It is simpler to complicate than to simplify. The mind is noisy, thus, so too the life is noisy.
->Why do we fill our minds with truths, only to find truth in an empty mind?
When the mind is full there is no Truth. When there is Truth there is no mind.
->Why do we cling to suffering?
It is simpler to Suffer than to let go of the Causes of that Suffering.
Subject: Re: Ponderings
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:44:56 -0800
Good Morning Sharlene....these are good questions, and for which one only need to live the answers:
Sharlene wrote:
> These are my questions in this moment > Why do so many take something simple and make it so complicated?
and what is simple or complicated....in silence it grows and rests from a seed to a tree to a fruit to a meal....
> > Why do people use so many words to say so little > when so much can be said with few words?
who knows?
> > Is it because we relish the feeling of being wise when we think we > understand what someone is saying? Why do so many Wise men speak in riddles?
cause the simple counfounds us ....and the wise is also foolish?
> > What is the attraction we have to words and speech? > Why do we fill our lives with so much noise when in silence there is only > peace and joy?
hmm....now it can be very wise sometimes to say nothing at all....
> > Why do we fill our minds with truths, only to find truth in an empty mind?
or an empty life....so many dead people walking (not even tasting what they eat or drinking a cup of coffee sip by sip while still hot)
> > Why do we cling to suffering?
because we cling to past and future and memories too much....
> > > Shar >
thankyou shar,
Subject: Re: Ponderings
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:30:26 -0800
Hallooooo EJ, Spent another part of my day talking to birds and organising.....
> It is simpler to complicate than to simplify. It is simpler to add >on than to let go. It is simpler to build on and around than to tare down >and rebuild.
I realize that doing what is called easier, is avoidance..... Or denial. It may seem easier at the moment, but the suffering lasts years longer than it has too, so in reality, which is really the easiest? I say, take the plunge....let it all hang out and get rid of it, now....
> It is simpler to complicate than to simplify. The mind chatters, >thus, so too the mouth chatters.
Is this a part of the babble or the dazzle? It sure isn't silence....
>->Is it because we relish the feeling of being wise when we think we >->understand what someone is saying? Why do so many Wise men speak in riddles? > > They do not speak in riddles, they simplify.
That's not what I meant, so will rephrase. Some Wise men that are quoted, take forever to say, drop your conditions, be in your moment.......You know, the wordy ones.
>->Why do we cling to suffering? > > It is simpler to Suffer than to let go of the Causes of that >Suffering.
Letting go, awareness of the causes of suffering, gets easier with practise. In fact, a few moments/hours of pain, for a life of freedom doesn't seem like much of choice.......Even that pain is an illusion.
End the suffering......whack everyone on the head..? No? LOL
Just funnin'
Subject: Re: Ponderings
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:31:17 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Spent another part of my day talking to birds and organising.....
Ah the birds, a wonderful symbol the True Seeker. The bird in frantic relentless persistent aspiration Seeks out totally preoccupied with the object of it's Seeking it's very Life Force. And when the bird locates the object of it's Seeking, Aha, snatch, gulp, Ahhhhh, and lets go of the Seeking. The Contented bird sits on a limb singing and signals to other birds where perhaps they too could located the object of their Seeking. And so it is, the True Seeker in frantic relentless persistent aspiration Seeks out totally preoccupied with the object of their Seeking their very Life Force. And when the True Seeker locates the object of their Seeking, Aha, snatch, Ahhhhh, and lets go of the Seeker. The Contented True Seeker sits singing and writing poetry or verse and signals to other True Seekers where perhaps they too could located the object of their Seeking.
->I realize that doing what is called easier, is avoidance..... Or denial. It ->may seem easier at the moment, but the suffering lasts years longer than it ->has too, so in reality, which is really the easiest? I say, take the ->plunge....let it all hang out and get rid of it, now....
Sleeping, instant gratification and the quick fix is the goal regardless of the long range consequences. It is the simplest because it is the easiest.
->Is this a part of the babble or the dazzle?
Perhaps both.
->That's not what I meant, so will rephrase. Some Wise men that are quoted, ->take forever to say, drop your conditions, be in your moment.......You ->know, the wordy ones.
There are those who ramble on about nothing and say nothing, which still sounds good to those who know nothing anyway. Not understood so it must be wise, so they are conditioned to think. Then there are those who offer wisdom gently so as not to scare anyone. And in the gentile offering to let people down easy they at times word one to dreariness and even back to Sleep. Then there are those who simplify and say, "YOU IDIOT CONDITIONED PROGRAMMED AUTOMATON, WAKE UP !" WHACK
->Letting go, awareness of the causes of suffering, gets easier with practise. ->In fact, a few moments/hours of pain, for a life of freedom doesn't seem ->like much of choice.......Even that pain is an illusion.
*Deep Bow*
->End the suffering......whack everyone on the head..? No? LOL
WHACK !
->Just funnin'
:::::Smile:::::
Subject: dilemma
From: "J B" <jb789@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:15:54 +0100
Hello
This is my first post to the list.
I might as well start with something 'weighing heavily', at this moment. What is a dilemma/confusion ?
At present, the mind drains quite a bit of energy, trying to decide whether to move in with my female partner, or not. (.. 'funny' that I should be involved in this activity, at my not-exactly young age..) It is using the for/against-reasons model and the greatest fear-factor is that it might be an impediment to the 'work'; at the same time, something tells me that that's nonsense.. and yet another thought says "but what about the 'toxic states' you get into due to being presented with her incessant mental/emotional busyness", and yet another say :".. but she is very loving.." and so on. And at times I feel that all these are arisings in a dream-world, and they present no real impediment for the work, regardless of the choice made.
The fact is that I feel much more 'whole' and with a sharper clarity/sensitivity of perception/awareness, when I am alone for some days, than when in her company. But should this be a valid reason to avoid relationship ?
I would appreciate your furthering the enquiry into this, with your eventual pointers/sharing. Have a good day, JB
Subject: dilemma.
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:37:00 -0700
Sometimes we keep asking the question even when we have already received the answer; that is because the answer is not one we want to hear. By repeatedly asking the question(s) we are searching for the answer we DO want to hear. It's like talking oneself into an action and then talking oneself out of it ..... based on fear most often.
Subject: Re: dilemma
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:13:45 -0800
>Hello > >This is my first post to the list.
Hi JB, Welcome to the list.
>At present, the mind drains quite a bit of energy, trying to decide >whether to move in with my female partner, or not.
When it doubt, don't do it....... Why play the game of good or bad? Aloneness is not necessarily loneliness.....
>(.. 'funny' that I should be involved in this activity, at my not-exactly >young age..)
Age has no bearing on what is......
I could elaborate if you like......
Peace be with you
Subject: Re: dilemma
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:21:47 -0700
JB:
> The fact is that I feel much more 'whole' and with a sharper > clarity/sensitivity of perception/awareness, when I am alone for some days, > than when in her company. > But should this be a valid reason to avoid relationship ? >
Hi JB and welcome; glad to hear from you. No one can give you "advise" on what to do, nor should one. In reading your post, for which thank you for sharing, I sense that you have already answered your own question. As it has been mentioned here in the Oasis many times before, that we can find the answer within the question.
Ask yourself what is your priority and see what answers you get.
Relationships are formed at different levels and each person must decide the level for them self. I (for myself) look at what the relationship will do for the parties concerned. Will it enhance our life and add to it, or detract! Also, is this a dependency need relationship?
Subject: Re: dilemma
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:39:38 GMT
Greetings JB, you wrote: ->This is my first post to the list.
Welcome. Thank you both for joining our little Oasis Community and for saying hello and starting right off with a discussion.
->I might as well start with something 'weighing heavily', at this moment. ->What is a dilemma/confusion ?
Dilemma is confusion is choice is judgement is volition is conditioned thinking. There are only situations that require solutions. There is only the ever anew Moment and what must be done IN/AS that Moment.
->At present, the mind drains quite a bit of energy, trying to decide whether ->to move in with my female partner, or not.
The mind uses no energy at all, for it is just the mind being the mind. Which is a facilitator of programs and/or thoughts. Now, when it has to facilitate some program and/or thought, then it can sap you of your very Life Force (and generally does). Ah, the decision program. Mega-bytes of hard drive space, total ram, and like a black hole that draws most times all of our energy and totally preoccupies our attention. How much can you contribute to this partnership ? Can you contribute the needed attention and time required in such partnerships ? In your question will be your answer.
->(.. 'funny' that I should be involved in this activity, at my not-exactly ->young age..)
*Roaring Laughter* I know Tantric practitioners well into their later 90s in such partnerships. The hill we say that we are over is the hill we constructed ourself.
->It is using the for/against-reasons model and the greatest fear-factor is ->that it might be an impediment to the 'work'; at the same time, something ->tells me that that's nonsense.. and yet another thought says "but what about ->the 'toxic states' you get into due to being presented with her incessant ->mental/emotional busyness", and yet another say :".. but she is very ->loving.." and so on.
Ah, the "for/against-reasons model" program, and the "fear-factor" program, and the "something tells me" program also. Your mind is running a lot of programs, no wonder you speak of an energy drain. No True Work can be accomplished will no energy left to run it. Boggling for sure. No, more like paralysis. Comatose. Is the world not Suffering enough that we have to continue to generate more. If it does not fall into place, so to speak, it is not supposed to be in place. That is, a major Cause of our Suffering is trying to fit that Which-ISNOT into What-IS. When What-IS is What-IS there is only What-IS.
->And at times I feel that all these are arisings in a dream-world, and they ->present no real impediment for the work, regardless of the choice made.
In a dream world of Sleep. Sleeping, all is an impediment to everything. Awakening, nothing can impede anything for all is What-IS.
->The fact is that I feel much more 'whole' and with a sharper ->clarity/sensitivity of perception/awareness, when I am alone for some days, ->than when in her company.
Is it validation you seek ? Further input for consideration and judgement ? More choices ? You know your answer for it arises in your question.
->But should this be a valid reason to avoid relationship ?
IN the Moment, there is nothing to consider and no one to consider it. There is just you and/as What-IS and what must be done IN/AS that Moment of/in/as What-IS. There being a Multiplicity IN/AS Union or One, there will always be interaction and relationship amongst the Multiplicity of this Union or One. What is to consider ? What-IS is What-IS. We error greatly when we run the valuation program, stratifying the seeming worth of this and that. It is all in your head, do not feed it (as the dormouse says).
->I would appreciate your furthering the enquiry into this, with your eventual ->pointers/sharing.
Well..... my crystal ball is a bit foggy..... and I have lost the contents of my mind..... so I guess we will have to ask the Cheshire Cat.
->Have a good day,
Are there bad ones ? Hmmmmm, perhaps I am missing something. One does lose track of such when the very instant present Moment IS the only day there IS. BE Well and ever so Mindful Wonderful New Friend.
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