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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ February - Page 3 ~
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Subject: poonja
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:07:05 +0000
Self is what you are. You are That Fathomlessness in which experience and concepts appear. Self is the Moment that has no coming or going. It is the Heart, Atman, Emptiness. It shines to Itself, by Itself, in Itself.
Self is what gives breath to Life. You need not search for It, It is Here. You are That through which you would search. You are what you are looking for! And That is All it is. Only Self is. Only the Truth is and you are That!
You Are the unchanging Awareness in which all activities takes place.
To deny this is to suffer, to know this is Freedom.
It is not difficult to realize this because it is your True Nature.
Simply Inquire 'Who am I?' and Watch Carefully.
Do not make effort and do not stir a thought.
Look within, approach with all-devotion and stay as Heart.
Keep vigilant and you will see that nothing will arise.
This is the trick of how to keep the mind quiet and how to win Freedom.
This doesn't take time -- because Freedom is always Here.
You simply have to watch: where does mind arise from?
Where does thought come from? What is the source of this thought?
Then you will see that you have always been Free and that everything has been a dream."
poonja
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:45:21 GMT
Greeting Bruce and Oren, you wrote: ->Bruce: Hello. I'm new to this and have never replied...
Welcome New Friend, thank you for sharing with us.
->Bruce: ->Just some ideas... your brother isn't the problem. the problems are the ->conflicts he experiences in his mind
->Oren: ->No -- the "problem" isn't in the brother's head -- the ->"problem" is in Sharlene's head. Sharlene has a ->DESIRE. Sharlene wants her brother "to be" a way that ->he isn't (sober)-- instead of the being the way that he ->"is" (drunk).
Though I am sure that Sharlene will reply herself, I though I would interject a tid-bit that perhaps the two of you are not considering. Namely that, though I am sure that she would like to see her brother quite drinking for his own health/well-being, the Real motive is far more involved than her seeming need to selflessly Save her brother. For whether he continues to drink or not is not really her most pressing concern, but rather the safety/well-being of her parents where the drinking brother resides. The parents are not the youngest nor the healthiest to fend much for themselves, that is why she is there now. The drunken brother is a threat to life and limb of the parents, THAT is why she wants him to stop drinking as he does. Most everyone drinks, that is not the problem, but rather that an alcoholic of his state is continually obliterated both mentally and physically to the point that they are dangerous not only to themselves but to anyone who happens to be around them. If he was living by himself, I am sure that Sharlene would help him in any way she could, but would not be on a campaign for him to quite.
Taking this into account, do you see that the *textbook ideas* are not really of use *in this case* ? IF the brother was the only one to be considered here, both of you, Bruce and Oren, are most accurate in your helpful offerings. But consider that it is not only about Sharlene and her brother, but rather that others are the main concern. Hopefully this will help in looking at Sharlene's dilemma.
Correct me if I am wrong in this Sharlene.
Subject: Re: poonja
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:31:20 GMT
Greetings Oren, you quoted: ->Self is what you are. ->You are That Fathomlessness ->in which experience and concepts appear. ->Self is the Moment that has no coming or going. ->It is the Heart, Atman, Emptiness. ->It shines to Itself, by Itself, in Itself. -> ->Self is what gives breath to Life. ->You need not search for It, It is Here. ->You are That through which you would search. ->You are what you are looking for! ->And That is All it is. ->Only Self is. ->Only the Truth is and you are That! -> ->You Are the unchanging Awareness in which all activities ->takes place. -> ->To deny this is to suffer, to know this is Freedom. -> ->It is not difficult to realize this because it is your ->True Nature. -> ->Simply Inquire 'Who am I?' and Watch Carefully. -> ->Do not make effort and do not stir a thought. -> ->Look within, approach with all-devotion and stay as ->Heart. -> ->Keep vigilant and you will see that nothing will arise. -> ->This is the trick of how to keep the mind quiet ->and how to win Freedom. -> ->This doesn't take time -- because Freedom is always ->Here. -> ->You simply have to watch: where does mind arise from? -> ->Where does thought come from? What is the source of this ->thought? -> ->Then you will see that you have always been Free ->and that everything has been a dream." -> ->poonja
*Deep Bow* Poonja. Worthy of quoting the whole offering. Yet the KEY to all else in the offering is: "You simply have to watch: where does mind arise from? Where does thought come from? What is the source of this thought?" Observe and question every thought, and ask yourself 'why is this thought ?' and 'where is this thought from ?' and 'what purpose is this thought ?' And at the root of all those thoughts and all those programs you will See that the Grand Trickster is hard a work fashioning them. Poonja, as many others who offer us words of Wisdom, did not have such words as *conditioning* at the disposal to use. This is a Fact that so many Students overlook, that these Wise Sages tell us What-IS and we bath in it, yet they also tell us What-ISNOT but we fail to Recognize it because THAT is where we are. They tell us how to Realize What-IS but they are not speaking in terms that we readily understand. They did not have the words to say *you are conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons* so they used the words at their disposal to say the same thing. But we Realize it not.
Could that be the reason that after all these years of studying Wise words, and even devoting ourself to their concepts, that we still war and conflict with others and hate and crime rates ever rise ? The Wise words and Sages and Scriptures have been with us for a very long time, yet is the Suffering any less now than it ever was ? Do we now have more Peace ? Do we now have more Love and Compassion and Empathy ? Or do we now just have more Parrots ?
Subject: Re: hot/soy chili (2 )
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:50:48 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Good Morning E. (everybit) J. (jocular) ->Your everybit of a fool,
Easy for you to say, you do not have to wear this multi-colored pointy hat with the bells on it. Just remember: nothing exceeds quite like excess.
"Whenever a thought occurs, Be aware of it, As soon as you are aware of it, It will vanish. If you remain for a long period Forgetful of objects, You will naturally become unified. This is the essential art of zazen." -- Dogen
Subject: Re: hot/soy chili 3
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:13:36 -0800
Morning E.J. and Community:
"E.J." wrote:
> > > Easy for you to say, you do not have to wear this multi-colored pointy > hat with the bells on it. Just remember: nothing exceeds quite like > excess.
Are you saying something to me? If you are then I missed it. Am I excessive?
> > > "Whenever a thought occurs, > Be aware of it,
ok
> > As soon as you are aware of it, > It will vanish.
hmmm
> > If you remain for a long period > Forgetful of objects,
be like a bee that briefly touches the flower and moves on to the next flower or moment as it Is.
> > You will naturally become unified.
And frost said..."I have miles to go before I sleep....and me perhaps...miles to go before I wake....all of this one day or the other.
> > This is the essential art of zazen."
take the meditation into everyday living?
> > -- Dogen
Doggy
Subject: Welcome!
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:12:39 -0700
It is always gratifying to hear a new "voice" from out of the shadows ~ WELCOME Bruce!
Subject: Re: hot/soy chili 3
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:56:52 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Are you saying something to me? If you are then I missed it. Am I excessive?
Whenever a thought occurs, do not project it into/onto any offering. The finger says Nothing, it only Points.
->be like a bee that briefly touches the flower and moves on to the next flower ->or moment as it Is.
*Deep Bow*
->And frost said..."I have miles to go before I sleep....and me perhaps...miles ->to go before I wake....all of this one day or the other.
*Deep Bow*
->take the meditation into everyday living?
*Deep Bow*
"Through The Looking Glass", Alice said "Wob Peed".
Subject: Books
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:28:22 -0800
Hello all,
I am curious who has read or who has bought the book :
"Affirmations of Light" by Yogajyotii
and what you think of it. My first response was the beauty in just holding the book, the second response was the cover and the printing, absolutly gorgeous.
The content was to say the least: is definately food for thought and very well done.
Each day offers a new Ray or affirmation to start ones day, end ones day or an anytime read during the day.
So if anyone has a comment on it, I would be more than happy to discuss what you have discovered personally by reading it.
I also see a second one is about to hit the market, or has.
And now I think more about the cook book with each recipe having a Ray on the top of the page. A small quotation that is. Would someone else who is interested in this please contact me. I have no idea how to do a book after the contents are gathered and put in place.....I sure don't mind collecting, gathering and organising, but know nothing about publishing.
Anyhow, just a thought that keeps occuring since we all eat. I am not sure about others, but I would like to see the Mission Retreat Center get off the ground
Thanks all,
Subject: Re: Books
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:03:44 -0700
Hi Sharlene ~
> "Affirmations of Light" by Yogajyotii > > and what you think of it. My first response was the beauty in just holding > the book, the second response was the cover and the printing, absolutly > gorgeous. >
Yes ~ I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have a copy sitting right beside my computer, which I go to whenever I am waiting on my computer to do it's "thing". A good companion to have ~ at all times.
To those who haven't got it ~ I highly recommend it.
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:47:36 -0800
Hi Oren, Glad to hear from you and I do listen.
> First -- Sharlene -- I can only trust that you take what > I am about to say in the kindest of ways, as I consider > you a friend.
That's never a problem. I am open to whatever what is presented to me.
> and Bruce also writes... > > "your brother isn't the problem. the problems are the > conflicts he experiences in his mind." > > Actually, let's look at the situation -- from the > reference of "Awakening"...
Now that's a statement.
> Sharlene sees her brother get out of bed and start
Not quite. What I see is a brother that holes up in the basement crawling on the floor like a worm, and we know worms can't fall down. What I see is someone that is known to man handle the parents when sober enough to move. What I hear is foul words directed at the parents. What I see is someone who causes a fire and falls asleep totally unaware of such happenings. What I see is a brother to drunk to go and get alcohol so has to have it delivered. What I see is a brother who does walk to the jar store and come home muddy from falling down. What I see is a brother that doesn't eat for 5 days or so at a time. I see a brother that has seizures from all the above. I see a brother that has gone from 180 pound, sportsman of the year winner to a 120 pound worm. What I see is a brother who falls down basement stairs and can't move. What I see is a brother that hasn't been sober enough to attend the last 9 christmas's and is never sure what day it is. I hear a brother on the phone that makes up a life to his friends, the ones that are left. What I see is an unsafe place for my parents to live. What I see is an 85 year old man and 77 year old woman not quite knowing what to do without causing him more pain. DUH! Do I want him to quit and be so called normal? Frankly that part doesn't bother me. He can drink himself to death if that is what he chooses. What I don't want, if I do have a desire, is to have my parents safe and die from natural causes and not because his stupidity kills them. If that's a desire, so be it.
> No -- the "problem" isn't in the brother's head -- the > "problem" is in Sharlene's head. Sharlene has a > DESIRE. Sharlene wants her brother "to be" a way that > he isn't (sober)-- instead of the being the way that he > "is" (drunk).
Sure that would be nice, but it is not my job to sober him up. The desire is to want him to sober up or kick him out. I would prefer not losing a brother, but I would lose him to losing both parents out of his mistakes, or careless acts. > > Now as "desires" go -- this one seems pretty tame -- > even positive. We ALL tend to make our little lists of > things we'd like to see happen. Yet -- in the > enlighenment/awakening "game" -- desire is desire -- and > it has to be "checked at the door" of that "gateless > gate" that leads to the path of Awakening.
Right, it is a desire to see my folks enjoy what time they have left together without the worry of burning to death or being beaten out of his temper when he is suffering without a drink or until the the jar store opens.
> > Man oh man Sharlene -- I know that's a tuff/tall order > to fill, and a pretty hard thing to let go of -- this > "desire" to help. And it may look/sound a lot like "not > caring" about the brother -- and perhaps even a bit > "selfish", or maybe even like "giving up" -- but is it?
That's funny, my Dad thinks I am mean to him and tells me to lighten up when I am being honest with him. I tell him that I would like my brother back, but if he chooses not to then I will do everything in my power to have him gone. But you are right....that is a desire..it is also a wish... the one I point at most is Dad. When he caught the couch etc on fire, Dad and Mom were both afraid to talk about it to him. Afraid he would get mad at them or committ suicide. > > What was it that Christ said? Something to the > effect..."Before removing the splinter from thy > brother's eye -- remove the plank from thy own eye, > first". A lot of Christians take this as meaning don't > be judgemental -- equating it to "let he who is without > sin cast the first stone".
Do you think I am blind to myself and the desire I do have? No, I am aware of it.
> But perhaps what Christ was really saying was -- before > you can help someone else see clearly -- you must first > be able to see clearly, yourself...i.e...if you really > want to be of service to your brother, then "arrive" at > Awakening first -- then "help".
Sure I see what you are saying.
> Do you see the possibilities? If you can expand your > love -- your acceptence* of the universe -- to include > your brother just the way he "is" (drunk) -- and the way > he "is not" (sober) -- what would be the result?
You miss understand me then, I do love him very much, always have, always will. I just know right now that he is a little short of brain power and what is my fear, since all desires, wants and anger is based in fear??? Ask me what my fear is.. My fear is not trying to help my parents help themselves....to teach them that love comes in many ways and in many directions....And to teach them they have to love themselves as much as anyone else, and that they don't have to live like that, living in fear. My fear is that if I don't try and encourage him to quit and get help, then he will die, or others will. He is not carrying out his end of the bargin, he was suppose to live there and help out with the chores that are too much for the folks, and after he gets to inherit the house. For ten years now, his part of the bargin has been ingested or sucked up his nose....He doesn't make his own lunch, wash his laundry, or change his pissy bed.
> First, for you Sharlene -- the "problem" disappears. > The conflict is gone. You are at total peace with the > reality facing you.
I'm sorry, I just don't feel very peaceful when I fall asleep at night wondering if the smoke alarm will go off, or if I will wake up to a dead man in the basement. Peace will come when he's out or sober. Then I can move out as well. Dad can't walk to the door without sitting down three times, and that is only 20 feet. And he struggles three or four times a night going into the basement to see if he is still alive. Then can't get back up the stairs....He spends all of his time in bed except for those little treks down the steps. Mom is getting so she doesn't want to get up any more either. She is angry at Dad because she knows he has to leave the house because she can't live in fear much longer. She tells dad that and he says for her to move out then.
> And secondly Sharlene --(and from your writing I sense > you already know this) -- but from that "space" -- > miracles occur. Your brother is screaming for help -- > for love -- he's like a child throwing a tantrum -- but > he's doing it as a "grown-up" with alcohol. He's > created himself a living hell -- he's in a room filled > with pain that has no windows or doors -- and your love > could very well be his only means of escape. Love > conquers all.
Oren, he is aware that I love him and want to help him. He recognises this. I don't tell him to quit for me, or for Mom and Dad, I encourage him to get out and get a life of his own. Find a woman , have babies whatever....but I do get angry when he is dangerous. Mom and Dad love him, and it seems a soft love doesn't help. They have to get tuff and force him into living his own life. They have to release him from their care taking and giving and allow him to fall on his face and experience a dark night of the soul or die, whichever he chooses. I would miss him if he died, but I sure as hell wouldn't feel any guilt if he did. I would feel guilt if I didn't try and get them all to help themselves. So far this is my problem......I am not coming up with the right words, or the right action...I need a bit of solitude again to see what happens. I am one who seeks solitude often.
> grace and love.......oren
Yes, thanks ...
> 2. Sharlene -- I know that's big jumbo pill to swallow > -- but I'm sure "you got what it takes" to get through > to him. And remember -- if "the path" were easy, it'd > look like the Intertate during rush-hour traffic
Oren, I am not sure of anything anymore, I just know I gotta do what I gotta do, right now, right here, until I get the message to walk away.....whichever comes first........ I told him I would walk beside him, but he had to do it, he had to make that phone call, I couldn't and wouldn't. But if he was ready, I would drive him to a meeting, or to the hospital. And he is also aware that I would not hestitate to call the RCMP either.
As they say " I can't sell AA but I can give it away" And it would be a great place to start.....
Thanks Oren and Bruce.......
Subject: re: families
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:59:37 -0800
Thankyou Oren for sharing this about "families"...Living alone, I do miss eating at the table with others....and so recently have invited a new friend to come and eat with me. We plan to try some new dishes, recipes and such and just plain enjoy each others company.
Subject: "The truth will set you free...
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:22:13 GMT
"The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off."
What if you Slept, and what if in your Sleep you Dreamed, and what if in your Dream you glimpsed Reality and there you Realized a strange and beautiful Truth, and what if when you awoke you Realized that you had not been Dreaming ? What then ?
Subject: The Guru Said
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:50:49 GMT
Greetings Community,
To offer a famous quote: "If we do not see God when we look in the mirror, or if we do not see God when we look at a tree, or an animal, or our family, or the myriad Wonders of life itself, we will never see God".
Though: A guru and a disciple are talking, and the disciple asks "what is god ?" The guru replies, "why you are god, and I am god: everything is god !"
A few days later the guru hears the disciple is in the hospital, so he decides to go and visit. The disciple is in pretty bad shape. The guru asks, "tell me what happened ?"
The disciple replies, "well, I was practicing what you taught me regarding god". "What do you mean ?" asks the guru.
"Well", replies the disciple, "I was walking down the street and a man and the elephant on which he was riding were headed right at me. I thought to myself, he is god, the elephant is god, I am god -- should god get out of the way of god ? Next thing I know I woke up here, like this !"
"The guru, realizing that this is the accident he heard about earlier in the day, responds, "But didn't you hear god from on top of the elephant yelling at you to get out of the way ?" BE Mindful !
Subject: families
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:50:49 +0000
A frail old man went to live with his son, daughter-in- law,and four-year grandson. The old man's hands trembled, his eyesight was blurred, and his step faltered.
The family ate together at the table. But the elderly grandfather's shaky hands and failing sight made eating difficult and unpleasant to watch. Peas would roll off his spoon onto the floor, and when he grasped the glass, milk would spill on the tablecloth, and he would continually drop his silverware on the floor.
The son and daughter-in-law became irritated with the mess. "We must do something about Grandfather," said the son. "I've had enough of his spilled milk, noisy eating, and food on the floor."
So the husband and wife set a small table in the corner of the kithen. There, Grandfather ate alone while the rest of the family enjoyed dinner. Since Grandfather had broken a dish or two, his food was served in a wooden bowl.
When the family glanced in Grandfather's direction, sometimes he had a tear in his eye as he sat alone. Still, the only words the couple had for him were sharp admonitions when he dropped a fork or spill his food. The four-year-old watched it all in silence and seemingly unaffected.
But evening before supper, the father noticed his son playing with wooden blocks on the floor. He asked the child sweetly, "What are you doing?"
And just as sweetly, the boy responded,"Oh, I am making little bowls for you and Mama to eat out of when I grow up."
That evening the parents took Grandfather's hand and gently led him back to the family table, and for the remainder of his days, the grandfather ate every meal with the rest of the family.
love and grace..........oren
Subject: Re: families (2)
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:55:23 -0800
:) no dear, her name is Pinky and she lives up the street in a pink house....now thanks for the good laugh.
Subject: Re: The Guru Said
From: "oren dodge" <o.dodge@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:31:31 -0500
greetings EJ,
you wrote...
"... "The guru, realizing that this is the accident he heard about earlier in the day, responds, "But didn't you hear god from on top of the elephant yelling at you to get out of the way ?" BE Mindful !
ROFL -- As they say, "the devil is in the details"
I have one...the "Christian version"...
There was a great flood predicted for the area, and all the local residents were warned to evacuate. And everyone did -- except for one Christian man. As the waters rose, the police decided that they best check on him, and proceeded by his house in a row boat.
By the time they arrived, the flood water was knee-deep in the man's living room, and the police advised him that it would best for him to leave -- but the man refused, saying..."I put my faith in the Lord -- He and He alone will save me". So the police let him be.
A few hours later, the chief-of-police decides he'd best try to save the guy one more time, and sends the boat by his house again. But now the flood water was now up to the man's roof -- and he was standing on top of it -- holding onto the chimney. Be he still refused their rescue efforts, once again claiming,..."I put my faith in the Lord -- He and He alone will save me." And once again, the police leave without him.
And the waters continued to rise. So the police chief radios the National Guard, and requests that they fly by the Christian gentleman's house, and see if they can persuade him to leave. And when the helicopter gets to his house, the man is now standing on top of the chimney, with the flood waters lapping at his ankles. But once again, he refuses their rescue efforts with the claim..."I put my faith in the Lord --He and He alone will save me." So the helicopter flys off without the man.
Finally, a few hours later, the flood waters crest another seven feet higher, and the Christian has been swept away and drowned. As he enters heaven, he looks at the Lord and bitterly complains..."Why did you let me drown?!!! -- I put all my faith in you !!!"
And the Lord replied..."You Drowned?!!! -- I sent you two row boats and a helicopter !!!"
Subject: Hi JB
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:44:32 -0800
I read what you wrote and am left with...ok...now what is it, you are pointing to in one simple sentance.
what would my sentence be?
I seek not...define not...and trouble not.
Subject: Re: Still..
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 20:49:09 GMT
Greetings JB, you wrote: ->The following, has been written as a response to a very 'pink' ->kundalini-site with great promises and 'elevating' verbiage, which in turn, ->has been 'responded' to somewhat flippantly ..a ha-ha self-indulgent ->narcisistic giggle (a sort of "'shut up !,.. I am blissed out and on the ->treshhold of My inner snake reaching the top of ..'enlightenment'"), and ->certainly avoided the essence of my communication.
You mean, "shut up, can't you see I'm having a spiritual experience here" ? My question would be, 'is the Snake Within, or is the snake the one having the experience ?' Is the Snake arising or is the snake sitting waiting for something to arise ?
->After millenia ->of thousands of mahatmas, swamis, rishis, tantricas, cosmic avatars, ->and mini-yogis, Ascended and descended Masters, lamas, gurus, tulkus, ->bodhisatvas, psychotherapists, healers and channeling ->mediums, "positive"-thinkers with their 'Affirmations', mini and ->SatGurus and other expert-preachers of 'truth and divine energy peace ->and love', after millenia of these 'spiritual blessings' and ->..humanity suffers more than ever, and is crazier than ever. ->And the butchery, more effective than ever.. ->in spite of all the 'love your neighbor as thyself's.
Very profoundly True. Reason being that due to our conditionings we still do not Understand the Wisdom of yore offered. We have to let go of the conditionings FIRST.
->(..good now that there is the Net, so we can let out ->the "positive/spiritual"/hopeful Screams about the situation, in ->a "civilized" way..and battle heads with words, or become stimulated ->with sentimental/romantic hopes for "spiritual development"..
Indeed, the Internet is a marvelous resource IF we use it correctly and with Eyes Open. Sleeping, we stand for nothing so we are taken by anything.
->'One ->day, I will...not be a savage any longer, I will be 'enlightened' and ->High for ever !'
Indeed, IF you let go of your conditioned notions. If you do not let go of those silly notions you will come back here again to see if you can get it Right.
->and in the meantime, we can design thousands of pretty ->little mind-blowing divine web-pages to satify the dreams of heaven.
Conditioned notions do abound.
->As for many og the 'expert-Guides', I wonder how 'sane'/loving they ->are,.. considering the cases of sexual abuse of disciples and ->children and other despotic cruelties and manipulations, practiced by ->these representatives/messengers of the 'how-to' of 'divine truth' ->and 'spiritual development'.)
A sad Fact, but they Seek Enlightenment so it is *sold* to them. Commerce takes two, the buyer and the seller. If they would let go of the beloved conditioned notions they might See things a little Clearer and be less apt to be so frivolous with their Resources.
->Amazing indeed ! ->Do I sound fed up with the whole circus ?
Yes, and for good cause.
->Yes Sir ! ->Indeed !
Well....... what are you doing about it ? Complaining ? That and a buck may get you a cup of coffee. May I offer: take a good Open Honest Look at yourself. Take a good Open Honest Look in the Mirror of Truth and See what conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automaton you have become, and do what must be done to Clean up the Reflection. When we Openly Honestly Observe every aspect of ourself we Realize/Recognize the Path to "know thyself". So in Realizing/Recognizing who we ARENOT we See who/what we ARE (ourSelf, our True Nature). OR, we can just complain (which is less arduous and less Painful). We can not Save the world, but the only way we can start to Save the world is by being the first volunteer for Salvation by letting go of those dearly beloved conditioned notions.
Subject: Still..
From: "J B" <jb789@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:19:29 +0100
The following, has been written as a response to a very 'pink' kundalini-site with great promises and 'elevating' verbiage, which in turn, has been 'responded' to somewhat flippantly ..a ha-ha self-indulgent narcisistic giggle (a sort of "'shut up !,.. I am blissed out and on the treshhold of My inner snake reaching the top of ..'enlightenment'"), and certainly avoided the essence of my communication.
---
After millenia of thousands of mahatmas, swamis, rishis, tantricas, cosmic avatars, and mini-yogis, Ascended and descended Masters, lamas, gurus, tulkus, bodhisatvas, psychotherapists, healers and channeling mediums, "positive"-thinkers with their 'Affirmations', mini and SatGurus and other expert-preachers of 'truth and divine energy peace and love', after millenia of these 'spiritual blessings' and ..humanity suffers more than ever, and is crazier than ever. And the butchery, more effective than ever.. in spite of all the 'love your neighbor as thyself's.
(..good now that there is the Net, so we can let out the "positive/spiritual"/hopeful Screams about the situation, in a "civilized" way..and battle heads with words, or become stimulated with sentimental/romantic hopes for "spiritual development"..'One day, I will...not be a savage any longer, I will be 'enlightened' and High for ever !' and in the meantime, we can design thousands of pretty little mind-blowingly divine web-pages to satify the dreams of heaven. As for many og the 'expert-Guides', I wonder how 'sane'/loving they are,.. considering the cases of sexual abuse of disciples and children and other despotic cruelties and manipulations, practiced by these representatives/messengers of the 'how-to' of 'divine truth' and 'spiritual development'.)
Amazing indeed ! Do I sound fed up with the whole circus ? Yes Sir ! Indeed ! jb.
Subject: Observations and dieting
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:34:27 -0800
Recently I joined a group of dieters, (mainly to make friends in the community, and seccondarily cause I want to loose weight too)...I found out much...about my self, my desires, my conditionings, and certain things that I am quickly realizing. Some of the conditionings are: I am comparing my self to others (why do they loose 4 bls when I only loose 2 bls, suspicion...they are taking laxatives....) Then I end up looking at the scales 15 times a day...and become anxious when I gain a lb. and joyful when I loose a lb....and then I go through the roller coaster reactions over and over. These are the awful things I see in my mirror and the reflections of my self so miserable staring back....Though the difference in me and others is that I am seeing the conditionings and reactions and arrogance and all that and having a good laugh. No I have not thrown out the scales or quit the group but I can laugh at the game I am playing and know also when I am playing it. By the way...this week I lost two pounds. Does that make me special, no...it just means I am getting smaller. Now if anyone wants to whack me, go ahead. The other thing is that I have realized is that I can relax and not make a big deal out of this....and even if I am in these contests the club has...it is only a game. Yes, a game. I am also realizing that when I get all anxious about gaining the weight I worked so hard to loose then I am only being caught in a reaction, a whirpool and if I just get quiet, breath...stay with the moment...none of that stuff matters in the least. I also can see how if I am not careful, I could develope the mentality that the anorexic has...and it could be quite the obsession. thats it. Any comments, most welcome.
Subject: Re: feelings
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 05:28:01 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Now, I probably should not let my feelings jerk me around, but on the ->whole except for E.J., I generally feel snubbed, or ignored...even when ->I ask for some feedback, or comment. Now, you can say this is cause no ->one is much around, but it happens over and over. And I do not want to ->stay where I'm mostly not responded to, and perhaps it is not about me ->at all...i dunno, but I am at least going to say something before I ->decide to just cut and run. That's it.
What ? You are still there ? This Community goes in waves, like most of the rest of the discussion lists. Then all of a sudden 25 messages + in a day. That is the nature of discussion groups Dear Friend. If I cried every time I never got a rise from a post to a discussion group I would not have any tears left. As I describe discussion groups to those who are not familiar with them, it is like a group of people setting in a room with a bulletin board on one wall. Many of the members are just members to see what Insights they can glean, and others are regular chatter-boxes. That is what Life is. Anyway, when someone wants to say something they post the message on the bulletin board and all the members of the group will read it. Some will say "well, that's neat" or "oh, I see" or "ya, I know that". Some may post relating information or just consider the original post a *food for thought*. Then there are times of silence when no one says anything, just going over previous posts or into other matters. It does not mean that anyone does not like someone but rather that they have nothing to add or say. To take silence personally is like condemning a frog just because he is Legless.
Much Wisdom has been conveyed with Silence. One of Siddhartha's most profound Dharma message was that he held up a rose and said nothing.
"Be aware that a halo has to fall only a few inches to be a noose." -- Dan McKinnon
Subject: Re: feelings
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 00:14:44 -0700
Dear Jacquie,
I can only echo what E.J. has said so eloquently. Have you ever heard it said that "Silence is a virtue."?
When one is too busy 'talking' one is not listening. And - since you have much to offer - take it that people are listening and gleaning from your postings. I know I am.
Personally, I don't always respond. I take the time to digest all that is posted, and when the light bulb goes on, I will post accordingly.
Could it be that feeling slighted is a conditioning ... just inquiring of its possibility. Most often, "reacting" to a situation or comment - is. When we can catch ourselves "reacting", we can examine the "why?" and reach an "aha!"
(((Love)))
Subject: Re: getting there
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:56:12 +0100
Dear group, I still have quite a few posts to read, but I am cramped and my shoulders are incredibly stiff from sitting here all afternoon into the evening trying to catch up with you and my e-mails, so forgive me if I have missed something really important, that maybe I should have reacted to, but for today, I have no more left in me, I really want to write to one incredibly dear friend, before he receives nothing yet another day. Kindest regards to you all
Subject: Re: Mail
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:35:08 +0100
Dear Shar, I would much rather have you any number of times, than not at all:)
Subject: Re: update,
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:53:03 +0100
Dear Shar, There is so much wisdom in you and in your post, how I would like to meet you ladies from here at sometime in my life, you are really special people! Love to you-
Subject: Re: Part 2
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:04:52 +0100
----- Original Message ----- From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu> To: "missionoflight-l" <missionoflight-l@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 4:25 AM Subject: Re: Part 2
Dear Vinnie, Lovely post, that one, thanks a bunch, it goes very nicely with our Shar's, I have the age but I didn't build kids to get the grandbabies, so I'll just enjoy your stories here:) I get mind pictures when you tell them :-))
Subject: Re: Another point to ponder
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:57:08 +0100
Dear Orin, A very late reply to you :-( Yes I have, during Tai Chi we received exercises with blindfolds to allow this part of us to grow, I do know what you are saying here from experience:)
Subject: my last response re: feelings
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 09:43:15 -0800
Have you ever walked into a rm. where everyone was having a conversation and a friend to talk to but you. Have you walked up to those twosomes and threesomes and tried to take part in their exchanges and get completely ignored. You shook it off for several times and acted as if it was quite acceptable but deep down you suspected something was wrong with yourself...and just plain, no one knew you existed. You felt over a period of yrs...deeply rejected, unworthy, and decided at some point that going into that rm. full of people was to painful. Now after becoming an adult you covered up by pretending not to notice, by rationalizing, by saying that it was a slight and a snub when inside it was eating away at you like that ugly face of rejection....when it was a kid doing it, it was obvious but when it was an adult it was secretive, furtive and even dressed up like it is of course your fault for being oversensitive, and even a cry baby.
Subject: Re: Howdy olive oil
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:32:12 +0100
Hi Shar, Many thanx for the post! Can I ask what Canoli is please? I am not familiar with this name. Oh dear, I am afraid I thought that olive oil could always be used for stir frying, bless me ignorance duh! Adding just before serving, I can try that, and I would never have thought to try it in mashes (hashes) great idea.
Subject: Re: A Canadian Joke...
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:54:39 +0100
quote: We have enough frogs...
umhum very tiny wee and little cough of dissension here... "no, we do not have enough frogs", for some very strange reason, frogs are dying off in the world massively! Scientists are researching why this is, it being one of the oldest animals we have, and having survived all other manner of things. So far they have not found out why this is happening dear Shar. Just thought I'd give this a mention. respectfully and with love
Subject: Re: A Canadian Joke...
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:16:35 +0100
> tee hee Sharlene...now who cares about ponds, legless frogs and yellow > roads...its > those special mushrooms that grow by the side of the road near the golden pond of > the universe.
:-))) dear Jacquie, mmm, Grace Slick and Jane Fonda, but you mean wholesome food I suppose:)? - Would you dare to actually eat mushrooms from the side of the road, or are you exceptionally Blessed by living rural enough, not to be bothered by car gunk?
Subject: Re: Observations and dieting
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:49:58 +0100
Dear Jacquie, I went and bought myself a stepping machine, and tried it today for the first time to see what it might bring me, you are not alone in this lot either love. The worrying about your weight will make you depressed, make you feel unloved, and basically ruin any self-esteem you might have. I notice if I worry and fret, I immediately get fatter, when I am happy and don't worry about it, and drink a lot of water, I actually **loose** weight - even though I am eating the same amounts, and doing all the same darn fool things I usually do!
Subject: Re: nothing
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:12:47 +0100
Dear Marion, Welcome here! You are only asking some of the questions I had myself when joining here a time ago. I am an infrequent poster here, if I stay away a few days, it's usually to my own detriment, I get the fun or wise bits and truths later than another by doing that. There is nothing odd in asking anything here, that makes it light to start with, however, I am not great in the answering department, the other members here are far better equipped for that than I am, I find phrasing what I mean, so I am not misunderstood a hard thing to do. Kindest regards to you
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:47:55 +0100
Dear E.J. >>>>Re: Recycling nothing.... but then Nothing is Everything ;-)
What if you Slept, and what if in your Sleep you Dreamed, and what if in your Dream you glimpsed Reality and there you Realized a strange and beautiful Truth, and what if when you awoke you Realized that you had not been Dreaming ? What then ?
>>>> I like this enough to frame it, gets us back on track again:)
Subject: Re: feelings
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:45:47 +0100
Dear Jacquie, I was slightly alarmed to read this post of yours just now, oh dear me. You are not ignored, I am so very sorry you might feel this way, but I don't read here every day, my life has altered itself a bit since a few months and my weekly way of running my life accordingly, so I don't spend the amount of time behind the computer I used to, I just can't hack it every day any longer. I also am currently doing a few things other than I am wont to, one temporarily, that is the most time consuming. I *love* your posts!! Besides there are oftentimes posts here that I enjoy, but wouldn't know how to respond to them, so I enjoy on the inside, if you leave here, it will alter this dear place, there not being so many women around and more guys...guys don't feel insulted you're fine too...
Subject: Re: my last response re: feelings
From: "Pam's E-Mail" <elkk@ucinet.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:45:56 -0800
Yes, yes, yes! It sucks. I found the secret is to ask people a question about themselves. That is everyone's favorite topic. The second secret is to love yourself enough that the rejection doesn't bother you. I haven't accomplished that yet.
Subject: Re: Where's Vinnie ?!!!
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:02:21 +0100
> I am here and there and everywhere. *** Much the scarlett Pimpernel then Vinnie:)? !! Sorry folks, couldn't bare to snip this one after such a Vinnieless timevoid
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:10:57 -0800
ok Wombat....now how did you get your name anyway....tell me what kind of furry creature is a Wombat....friendly, anyway...i bet.
Subject: Re: update,
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:27:18 -0800
HI Wombat, You have been busy today, it's nice to hear you again.
>There is so much wisdom in you and in your post, how I would like to meet >you ladies from here at sometime in my life, you are really special people! >Love to you-
Now that's a marvelous idea. When I win the lotto I will surely organize a reunion of Light Mission members. Unless someone beats me to it.
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: "Bruce Robert" <bru_t@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:39:22 -0000
Hello,
Thanks for the welcomes.
Sharlene, >"I told him I would walk beside him, but he had to do it, he had to make >that phone call, I couldn't and wouldn't. But if he was ready, I would >drive him to a meeting, or to the hospital." --Sounds like great support to me. Surely that was the right approach & thing to say to your bro. I don't have a brother, let alone a brother addicted to alcohol & in that way... but I think you are spot on, you can't do it for him or "save" him...things HAVE to come from him, else it's not going to really move him forward and thru what is going on in his mind which led him to create his present reality.
>"Right and Dad's mind as well. If Dad would say okay Darrell, do the work >and heal, he would. But Dad says how can I inflict more pain on him, how >can I add to his already miserable exsistance. Well, Dad needs help more >than Darrell. It's all in all a frustrating situation. Tuff love is an >aspect Dad doesn't understand.
Can you share any ideas on how to get through to the Dad?"
I'll try, here's some... You and your father being united with regard to your approach to helping Darell is something in you&dad's power (& not Darrells). Whilst you&your father conflict about what's the right moves/attitude to take with regard to accepting&helping Darrell, Darrell is probably quite "ok" seeing that disagreement/conflict-of-ideas like that, because it is probably a visible externalisation of some of the same conflicts in his own mind with regard to making his own decisions about what's the best move for him. No-one's moving are they?, no firm decisions, you are all stagnant. Those two mind-sets seem to be being played off against eachother (you&dad, and also the same in Darrells head), so that no firm decision gets made and stuck to. It's just an idea.
As far as actually getting thru to your dad... are you open to your dad getting thru to you? re. "tuff love is something dad doesn't understand"... ok, so maybe that's so, but where do *you* go from there then? Maybe your dad thinks tuff love is something *you* don't understand? Maybe your dad in his years has an intuition/belief that your approach would force Darrell into a position in which Darrell is unable to respond positively and thus suffers even more, &self-belief declines even more?? Maybe dad thinks that dad's approach is something *you* don't understand... and maybe you don't. What I'm trying to say is that a solution often lies half way. I'm not convinced you are listening to him, or that he is listening to you. If you "know" so much and your father doesn't "know" so much, then you will have the answer to your father's "inconsistent reasons" when you challenge him won't you, you will understand him & show him the inconsistencies &alternatives that you believe is right/better... so why aren't you, if you know so much and he doesn't?
Is that the kind of tuff love you meant...Tuff enough?
Anyways, suggestions: how about clarifying your "tuff" approach to dad & challenging your dad's reasoning, for what reasons does he think getting tougher on Darrell wouldn't acheive anything? Do you agree with those reasons... why not, for what reasons do you not agree?,...etc. & also, how about coming from an angle that while dad puts up with behaviour from Darell which imposes negatively upon dad himself then dad is not respecting himself *OR DARRELL* in the right way.... how should dad expect darrell to respect himself as a responsible human being when dad is setting an example of disrespecting dad & not respecting Darrell as a responsible human being?
How did you convince yourself that phoning the AA/counselling would be ok for Darrell and not land him in jail?.... what evidence&reason did you base that conviction on?....... then why not show it to Darrell if you are so sure, challenge his reasons for not phoning, with reason. If he really is making excuses then you can pull the legs from underneath them and expose what is really stopping him from picking up the phone... which is much more likely to be things such as shame, fear of failure, fear of success, self doubt, no confidence, deep worthlessness, etc etc etc... and, see what basis he has to these fears, if you can... I mean don't just dismiss them as irrational or lacking in courage..... maybe he has a very good/logical reason for why AA isn't the right move for him at this time... if so, in which case, *what now then*??, what step can he take instead to help himself. Somehow he needs to make a DECISION that he can stick to about his next step, whatever he decides his next step to be, if he is going to move from his spiral that it sounds like he's in.
I'm not sure I really know what this thing "tuff love" is. Maybe someone could explain it to me.?
Subject: Re: tuff love
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:47:33 -0800
Hi Oren, you wrote:
>Greetings Bruce, >you asked... >"I'm not sure I really know what this thing "tuff love" >is. Maybe someone could explain it to me.?" > >It's steam-roller justice -- but totally 'fair' to all. >It's beauty is, such certainty brings about a high >degree of "self-responsibility". Because once such >rules are firmly established, ALL the bull-shitting >comes to a halt. You know exactly "what is" and exactly >"what isn't" when it comes to gravity.
This is a good explanation. Thank you. Never thought of it as steam roller justice before, it's true.
Subject: tuff love
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:19:45 +0000
Greetings Bruce,
you asked...
"I'm not sure I really know what this thing "tuff love" is. Maybe someone could explain it to me.?"
To me, gravity is good example of nature's "tuff love". In other words..."IF you do this -- THEN this will happen".
Gravity doesn't waiver one bit. It NEVER gets sucked into your "story". It doesn't concern itself with the "why" or the "who" or the "when" someone steps off a high place -- it just smashes them to the ground.
It's steam-roller justice -- but totally 'fair' to all. It's beauty is, such certainty brings about a high degree of "self-responsibility". Because once such rules are firmly established, ALL the bull-shitting comes to a halt. You know exactly "what is" and exactly "what isn't" when it comes to gravity.
I've never had the displeasure of seeing someone fall from a skyscraper, but one thing I'm certain of. They are NOT pleading their case, making up excuses, or arguing with gravity on their way down, because the KNOW exactly who is responsible and what is about to ultimately happen.
grace and love.......oren
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:59:32 -0800
At 05:39 PM 2/26/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello,
Hi Bruce, you wrote: >Thanks for the welcomes.
You're welcome....
>Whilst you&your father conflict about what's the right moves/attitude to >take with regard to accepting&helping Darrell, Darrell is probably quite >"ok" seeing that disagreement/conflict-of-ideas like that, because it is >probably a visible externalisation of some of the same conflicts in his >own mind with regard to making his own decisions about what's the best >move for him.
He isn't aware of our conflict of interest, he isn't aware of much, or so it appears.
> Maybe your dad thinks tuff love is something *you* don't understand?
He knows and understands what I mean, and I know he doesn't care for the maybe consequences of tuff love.
>Maybe your dad in his years has an intuition/belief that your approach >would force Darrell into a position in which Darrell is unable to respond >positively and thus suffers even more, &self-belief declines even more??
He would not be able to respond positively to what I suggested. We all know that. It's Dad's fear that he may fall on his face. To save him(Darrell) embarrassment, he chooses to allow him to hide away from the world except for the daily trips.
> Maybe dad thinks that dad's approach is something *you* don't > understand... and maybe you don't. What I'm trying to say is that a > solution often lies half way. I'm not convinced you are listening to him, > or that he is listening to you.
I am listening to him, have for over ten years. His approach after that long, has not proven to work. He will not agree to even try mine. Well, he sort of has tried. He lays down the law, or sets the conditions, then doesn't carry them through. Idle threats is all they are and everyone knows it. We have physically had him removed a few times, and Dad lets him back in because he feels bad for him. Thats where the tuff love has to be shown. Learning how to say NO. We do it to children and others when we set boundaries, but he can not bring himself to endure the temporary pain of saying no. No matter what. It's the old" This is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you"
>If you "know" so much and your father doesn't "know" so much, then you >will have the answer to your father's "inconsistent reasons" when you >challenge him won't you, you will understand him & show him the >inconsistencies &alternatives that you believe is right/better... so why >aren't you, if you know so much and he doesn't?
I never said he knew nothing, nor that I know more than he does. We both know the same stuff, I have had more practice through personal experience.
>Is that the kind of tuff love you meant...Tuff enough?
Oren describes this in the other post.
>Anyways, suggestions: how about clarifying your "tuff" approach to dad & >challenging your dad's reasoning, for what reasons does he think getting >tougher on Darrell wouldn't acheive anything?
Done that many times, falls on deaf ears.
> Do you agree with those reasons... why not, for what reasons do you not > agree?,...etc. & also, how about coming from an angle that while dad > puts up with behaviour from Darell which imposes negatively upon dad > himself then dad is not respecting himself *OR DARRELL* in the right way....
It is not being viewed in that light by him. He refuses to admit that it is disrespect, and sees it as love for his son. .
>how should dad expect darrell to respect himself as a responsible human >being when dad is setting an example of disrespecting dad & not respecting >Darrell as a responsible human being?
This is it exactly. He has never allowed him to take responsibility for himself. Not ever in his life. That's why we ended up where we are today. Years ago, when Darrell was younger, he got a trafficking charge and dad blamed the other two for his part. Saying he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. That was the only time he had moved out of the home, so Dad talked him into moving back in, saying also, that he couldn't make it in the outside world, and Dad would take care of him. DUH! So that is just one example. Darrell is a product of Dad's belief system, and through that has come to believe it's his also. That is why it is so difficult in making him look at the aspect of tuff love. Better late than never. Besides. none of us will, nor do we want to, take over when Dad dies. I think that's why it is important for Dad to make that decision with our support. We don't want him to be in pain, or suffer anymore than Dad does, and yet, we know he has to face his demons at some point. Or not. He could die first and will if he continues with 3.2 readings. And at that reading, he was in walking mode, not his usual crawl. Can't image what the reading would be in crawl mode.
>How did you convince yourself that phoning the AA/counselling would be ok >for Darrell and not land him in jail?.... what evidence&reason did you >base that conviction on?.......
That's easy. Whatever is said in counselling, is private. AA meetings are also private. Or suppose to be. Other than that, the statute of limitations is long past, and all that would be repeated is called hear say.
>then why not show it to Darrell if you are so sure, challenge his reasons >for not phoning, with reason.
Tried that many times. He did at one time go to detox. That was about 9 years ago. He was told by someone that to get off cocaine, one could replace it by drinking. Not a wise move. So he agreed to go and it lasted one day. He called me and asked me to pick him up and drive him home. At that time, home was 8 hours drive away from mine. I said NO, but at the end of his stay, I would gladly drive him home. So he signed out and grabbed the bus. He said that place was not for him, it was full of druggies and alcoholics, and he didn't belong. He was not like them.
>If he really is making excuses then you can pull the legs from underneath >them and expose what is really stopping him from picking up the phone... >which is much more likely to be things such as shame, fear of failure, >fear of success, self doubt, no confidence, deep worthlessness, etc etc >etc... and, see what basis he has to these fears, if you can...
That didn't work either.
>I mean don't just dismiss them as irrational or lacking in courage..... >maybe he has a very good/logical reason for why AA isn't the right move >for him at this time... if so, in which case, *what now then*??, what >step can he take instead to help himself.
He could quit but doesn't seem interested. Had him on librium(sp) that's what they give alcoholics to help them quit drinking, he followed that for 2 days, then cut the dosage in half, so he could nip just a little.
>Somehow he needs to make a DECISION that he can stick to about his next >step, whatever he decides his next step to be, if he is going to move from >his spiral that it sounds like he's in.
Yes, we know he has to take that step, he will not doing it willingly, so am trying to get tuff love action going. Both for him and for Dad and Mom. Mom is more than willing, Dad fights it. Dad is willing to give up his marriage, etc, to protect his son. As if he can look after him and himself with his health. So it is still the same problem, with the same solution, boot him out, or get him to quit. Now, we have a court date, and some chance to set conditions with their help. He says, no matter what, he will pick going to jail. I know there is a program in jail,because my cousins wife is one of the counsellors there. Bruce, I have experienced attending Al-a-non, AA, and counselling, both during and after my marriage to an alcoholic. I know how and what they teach or practise. Plus I have read many of the books written and recommended by the counsellors and the program. This is the knowledge I am attempting to pass on. I have hauled all the reading material out and placed in the living area, available to anyone who wishes to pick it up. There is nothing else I can do.
Thanks for the reply and your sharing with me.
Love to you
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: "Candice Greene" <gcandice@qwest.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:38:47 -0700
Hi Sharlene & Bruce:
My name is Candy. I read these posts daily (usually), but have been away off and on the last month and haven't been keeping up like I would like to. I very seldom ever respond anyway. The reason I am today is I am a alcoholic myself. I drank for seven years and destroyed a marriage, two jobs, my health, lost every friendship I had, the trust of my children, etc., etc., etc. I am coming up on five years sobriety 3/13/01. Last week I found out my oldest son who has lived at home all his life except a six month period four years ago confessed to a three year drug addiction to crystal meth. I know in my gut he is lying to me about getting clean and sober now. He is frightened and does not see how he will do it. The point I am trying to make is I know what it took to get clean for me (the loss of everything I had previously valued and held dear) being locked up with no rights and many other devices. This son of mine has been treated with kid gloves since birth and not been forced to be responsible for himself because of me. Now I am almost paralyzed about him once again, even though inside I know what the right thing to do is. Tuff love is harder on me than him because it interferes with my idea (conditioning) of who I think I am. Kind, sweet, loving, forgiving mother. Ha Ha Ha. I hope you can understand what I am saying and that it might prove helpful.
Sincerely, Candy
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