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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ April - Page 3 ~
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Subject: Re: stepping twice into the same river
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:17:07 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->prophoose thanx, my friend, kontinually disturbing the little sleep i do get ->with ur unsolicited proddings & REMs...
It was Donovan in the 60s who said, "and he will be so kind... in consenting... to blow your mind". Glad to he a thorn in the side of Sleeping Dear Friend {8->
-> indeed... does the pope shit in ->the woods,
Look and find out. What good are speculations ?
->what is the sound of one hand klapping...
Try it and find out. You will never know by speculating about it.
->perhaps, ray, u are in the air whilst i am in the water - the proverbial ->*betwixt a rock & a hard place*... surely this is not a matter of semantiks ->& philology...
I am not in the air Dear Friend, I am simply IN/AS What-IS. Neither above or below but rather whatever IS IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. Where else can anyone actually BE ? No semantics problem as seen from here. You are in the right church, just not in the right pew.
->kan we agree on the Eternal Infinite Present Moment?
I am sure we do {8-> You are in the right church.
->& if so, kan that Moment not also Be an Eternity that is Always There but ->Always different becuz of the Timeline ->(cheesy word, yes) or the Being that passes thru it...
This is what I meant by the wrong pew. The ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment can only BE the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment, and as said, there is no duration IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. So, IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment is not relative to any such concept as a "Time-line". Since there is no duration or time-line IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment there can be no such concept as "passing thru". The Truth IS AS it IS Dear Friend, and when twisted to our own conditioned liking it is no longer the Truth. Truth simply IS just the way it IS without our projected conditioned notions into/onto it. If it is not broken, why try to fix it ? We brake it by trying to fix it the way we want it fixed. Do you see the subtle difference here ?
->i hear the snicker, my friend, *pass thru* & who is *passing thru it*...
"Who am I ?" "Who are you ?" "What is it ?"
->howse about: no matter where we go, THERE we are... & where i go, ray, ->THERE i AM...
*Roaring Laughter* How is it that you can be somewhere other than where you ARE ? There is no *there* other than what we project *there* by the Dualistic notion of separating the Observer and the Observed.
->what if i Make the ETERNAL INFINITE PRESENT MOMENT ->by my BEING, not in that Moment but by BEING THE MOMENT... ->c'est possible, n'est-ce pas? ->where i am there i AM...
You... "make" ? Do you mean, *you contrive* ? That is, do you mean that you theorize or postulate or intellectualize or conceptualize ? Well... how Real is that ? Or is it too Painful to change pews ?
->a little non-vaccuous Thereness?
A lot of Dualistic "Thereness" {8->
->the cycle of the Water in the River is very large, not so, ray? wud i be ->wrong to say that the rain falling into the lake, onto the snow pack is ->*essentially* the same water that evaporated sumwhere along the line... it ->is a klosed system, ray, i bin here long enuff to see it *recurr* tho i ->haven't gone to a zen monastary - as if they wud have a monastary... ->anyway, mon ami, the drop falling on the snow pack is relatively the same ->drop that evaporated in the lake to cum back to where it started from, ->falling on the snow pack... key words: essentially (in essence) & ->relatively the same drop... blah, blah, blah...
*Roaring Laughter* Even in your time-line notion the second step taken is not at the same time as the first, so there is no reoccurrence. Even in your water cycle notion, the water first stepped in went through a series of changes to return to even the same river so it is not the same water, hence there is no reoccurrence. You are pounding your foot with a hammer and are wondering why your foot hurts. Let go of the hammer and change pews.
->only Time & the Things in it's Sleeve have made things Seem different - u ->say urself, the moment is eternal, infinite, & so on & so forth... & so it ->is...
Ah... the crux of the delusion. *Deep Bow* Time and Eternity/Infinity go together like oil and water. The very problem with the Sleeping perception is that they are conditioned to *think* they can have there dearly beloved conditioned notions and be Enlightened at the same time. Yet, we "can not serve two Masters" at the same time.
->to Be, must i remove myself from this Picture & Be a part of It...
NO ! You must BE the Picture. Not removed from it, nor a part of it. Too Dualistic.
-> or kan i ->just sit back & enjoy the whole blessed thing without wondering if i'm ->really there... becuz, ray, i am there... perhaps not as much as u, but ->i'm okay where i'm at...
Ah yes, it is much more Painless and far less arduous to hold up in the lounger. We can avoid the Pain Dear Friend, but we would miss the Dance.
->i also realize i cannot relive yesterday - that wasn't wot i wuz saying or ->wanted to do - jez - yesterday no longer exists, i kiss the moment & it's ->gone - but - but it's not ray, ->the moment is with me eternally without me worrying about whether i have ->grasped it or not - i know when nourishment enters my system... i know when ->i have kissed the Kaaba...
Only when we cling to some dearly beloved Moment does it remain with us in our head. And by cling to that given Moment you prevent yourself from Directly Experiencing the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. You can not forget that Moment, nor would you want to, but it can never be the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment for it is past-tense. *Ever Anew* is the Key IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. Indeed live the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment as though there was nothing to regret or anything to look forward to -- Live Life. But Live it AS it IS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment and not as it seemingly was. A picture is merely reference and is not the Real Moment that the picture was taken. Let Go and BE the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment.
->my absence, was it fruitful... i am most fruitfull when i am absent from my ->self... {8-))
*Deep Bow* Yes, absent from ourself and IN/AS ourSelf is most fruitful.
->it is when i am kloser to Him,
Back to that Dualistic pew again. I know... you have kept it warm all these years and so it is very comfortable. But Dear Friend, you are missing the Dance {8->
Subject: Re: Namaste
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 07:30:46 -0700
>Good morning Jacquie,
So you are going from what is - to what is- enjoying the sunshine, doing what you must do within your moment.
I understand the puter problems very well. I had to clean my out and reformat the hard drive. now it is bare but working. I haven't been around the net for along time, mainly just emails. Most internet providers have a ten hour a month package for cheap for basically downloading and sending email. And reformating the hard drive isn't all that difficult with a little help from your friends.
If you like we could keep in touch through snail mail. Enjoy the spring, catch allot of sun rays and we will see you when you get back.
Love to you
Subject: Re: stepping twice into the same river
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 07:14:35 -0700
Good morning It has been written:
>-> indeed... does the pope shit in >->the woods, > Look and find out. What good are speculations ?
As we say in mushroom picking-bears crap on the roads, people crap in the woods, therefore......
>->what is the sound of one hand klapping... >Try it and find out. You will never know by speculating about it.
The point is - does it matter???
>->perhaps, ray, u are in the air whilst i am in the water - the proverbial >->*betwixt a rock & a hard place*... surely this is not a matter of semantiks >->& philology...
If one is between a rock and a hard place. move, don't duck.....if something or someplace is uncomfortable, find out why and remove yourself. Change your way of thinking to not thinking and just doing/being.
> So, IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present >Moment is not relative to any such concept as a "Time-line". Since there >is no duration or time-line IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present >Moment there can be no such concept as "passing thru".
Not that I am disagreeing here, just giving an example. When we are in the mind set of time lines etc, and first discover the freedom of living in the moment, a time line does exist. We learn to live in the moment by passing through that door that once opens, never closes. This is like leaving all conditioning behind that door and stepping into a life of what is from a life of what was. Living in duality of past and future only means we have one foot on either side of the door and from that position we question what we are doing. We are really uncomfortable living in a doorway into the void. The void being something we are in doubt about being the unknown. The term nothingness scares many people. So many think we lose ourselves in that nothingness when truth is, all we lose is the conditioned notions we used to rule our thoughts and minds. We still are, it still is what is, but the suffering and worrying are no longer apart of our lives. That step into the void is akin to passing through a doorway. The doorway between what is and what was. That doorway is only important until we get both feet, both arms and our minds through it.
>->i hear the snicker, my friend, *pass thru* & who is *passing thru it*...
Once again, it is pass thru and who is passing through until we do the passing through. Until we are through, these questions are apart of the questioning. It is only in the questioning that we begin to tire of the questioning and release the questioning to just accepting what is. Are you questioning my sanity with that statement? : )
>->to Be, must i remove myself from this Picture & Be a part of It... > NO ! You must BE the Picture. Not removed from it, nor a part of >it. Too Dualistic.
You can not remove yourself-you are infinite. There is nothing to change other than your clothes. one must release conditioned thoughts and beliefs to just be in the moment.
>-> or kan i >->just sit back & enjoy the whole blessed thing without wondering if i'm >->really there... becuz, ray, i am there... perhaps not as much as u, but >->i'm okay where i'm at...
Is this the truth,your truth or truth? Ask yourself if you want or desire something other than what is? If you answer yes, then you are not comfortable with what is and desire change.............Can one enjoy anything to its fullest when it is corroded with conditioned thoughts and blind eyes to what is. We can not be comfortable when we feel anger,fear,resentment, or any such other emotion.
>->i also realize i cannot relive yesterday - that wasn't wot i wuz saying or >->wanted to do - jez - yesterday no longer exists, i kiss the moment & it's >->gone - but - but it's not ray, >->the moment is with me eternally without me worrying about whether i have >->grasped it or not - i know when nourishment enters my system... i know when >->i have kissed the Kaaba...
You may know it in the mind, you may experience it from time to time, when you become it, you know longer recognize it or have a need to label it. You become the moment, you are the moment, there are no thoughts or comparisons in the moment, only what is and in the what is, we just do what must be done within that moment.
Bon jour mon ami.........
Subject: re: Happy Birthday
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:39:54 -0700
Thankyou Gary for the cute card...Ghee...
Subject: Re: Namaste (Pam
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:09:11 -0700
Dear Pam and friends: Thankyou for your kind words. If ever, I get to Oregon, I will love to visit. Moscow, Idaho is not far from Cour D'lane and about an hr. or so from Spokane Washington. I am 57 today, but tomorrow turn 58...and so not much different in ages. I will miss you too.
Subject: Re: Namaste
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:27:08 -0500
Hi Shar;
you wrote: > I haven't been around the net for along time, mainly just emails. Most > internet providers have a ten hour a month package for cheap for basically > downloading and sending email. And reformating the hard drive isn't all > that difficult with a little help from your friends.
also there are many free internet providers around, if you are willing to tolerate their little ad banner window. Freeinet.net, netzero.net, altavista.com, excite.com, and a lot of others. Some provide free pop3 email as well. That may help with the cost. As for the drive space problem. I just deleted 175 meg of old email that I had saved for some reason or another. As I reread many of them i have no idea why, lol......
Take gentle care
Subject: Re: Namaste
From: "Pam's E-Mail" <elkk@ucinet.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:34:38 -0700
Jacquie- Most of the time I don't keep up with the list. I read items here and there, but I usually read things that you have written. I relate to you very much. I don't know how old you are, but I am 47, very obese, and a smoker. I'm so proud of you for succeeding. I know that I too can do it if I would try, but I don't try. I have been going to counseling for a year now to help me identify programs that I am stuck in, and am making progress toward wanting to take care of my physical self. Anyway... I will miss hearing from you until you come back online. I don't correspond at all by snail mail, but my thoughts will certainly be with you. Where is Potlach? I live in La Grande, OR which is not far from the Idaho/Oregon border. If you are ever over this way, please look me up. May the light be in and around you my friend. Thank you for sharing yourself with us.
Subject: Re: stepping twice into the same river
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:12:40 -0500
Hi Ej and all;
you wrote:
" Only when we cling to some dearly beloved Moment does it remain with us in our head. And by cling to that given Moment you prevent yourself from Directly Experiencing the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment."
Isn't that what the self, ego, etc., is? A collections of past moments frozen in time, clung to..... or speculation based on those held moments as to what it wants and thinks will be?
A series of these held experiences/moments, strung together by confabulation, into the idea that they are a coherent entity that is seperate.........
And while they are held, they are the cause of this suffering, for they are what you want to be, what you judge every new experience against, and if you could only have more of these then you believe you would be happy.......
Of course holding them, one is never happy..........
Or so it might seem from the armchair.......
Take gentle care, be mindful, be well
Vinny One by one, little by little, moment by moment, a wise man should remove his own impurities, as a smith removes his dross from silver.
Dhammapada 239
Subject: Re: Namaste
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:02:05 -0700
Thankyou Sharlene: I hate to admit that I am better at e-mail than I am at letter writing, just ask my family. With e-mail you have immediate gratification, well almost...with a letter you must wait a couple of weeks or more...
now perhaps some day I could take a trip to Canada and meet you Sharlene. That would be fun. I would love to taste some mushrms...too, especially picked by you. Now it is time for some change for me. I will be back someday though. Someday, I think it would be cool to meet you all at E.J.'s retreat place...hope it is near Idaho....check it out...we have blue skys, no polution, lots of snow....and the palouse hills are beautiful....as well as the forests. love,
Subject: Happy Birthday!
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 15:26:02 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Happy 58 .... Jac.
(((Love))) Gary
Subject: Re: Namaste
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 04:14:45 -0700
>Hi Jacquie, you wrote:
>I hate to admit that I am better at e-mail than I am at letter writing, just >ask my family.
Or some of my friends that don't have Internet.
>With e-mail you have immediate gratification, well >almost...with a letter you must wait a couple of weeks or more...
This can be true, and yet it is nice to receive snail mail as well. It means someone thought about you and took the time to sit and write. My penmanship has taken a dive for the worst since keyboards came into my life.
Thanks, will write this in the real time address book
>now perhaps some day I could take a trip to Canada and meet you Sharlene. That >would be fun.
Just say when.
>I would love to taste some mushrms...too, especially picked by >you.
That would have to be a fall visit and too bad one can't send food like that across the border.
>Now it is time for some change for me. I will be back someday though.
I am sure you will be.
>Someday, >I think it would be cool to meet you all at E.J.'s retreat place...hope it is >near Idaho....check it out...we have blue skys, no polution, lots of >snow....and the palouse hills are beautiful....as well as the forests.
And don't forget potatoes. We get Idaho potatoes in the winter months. As if Canada doesn't grow any?????????? I don't think I've see a place I never liked. Each one has it's own merits and problems, and snow.
Till we meet again,
Subject: Re: Happy B'day Jacquie:)
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:57:29 +0200
Dear Jacquie, Happy Birthday to you and many happy and healthy returns ! You're almost 4 years my senior LOL ... I hope you have a wonderful day and some nice and unexpected surprises too. Kindest regards & best wishes Wombat:) XXX
Subject: Dark Age ?
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:03:29 GMT
Greetings Community,
A couple interesting items have been brought to my attention about the Kali Yuga Dark Age Cycle I keep harping on {8-> It seems that the Descending Passage of the Great Pyramid at Giza that we have always assumed points to a pole star called Alpha Draconis, which was the North Star around circa 2170-2144 BCE (before the common era). It seems that no other pole star has aligned with this passage since. The interesting thing is that around 2004-2006 ACE (after the common era) this Great Pyramid passage (344 feet long with an angle of view of + or - 1/3 degree) will be in alignment with the North Star Polaris. In Greek, Polaris means "satan".
Just some more Thought For Food to put in the Kali Yuga file {8-> BE ever so Mindful Dear Friends.
Subject: follow?
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 10:58:00 -0700
>If we "follow" anything we are, as "programmed robots". <
There is a saying that I like, E.J.: It says,
Don't walk ahead, I may not follow Don't walk behind, I may not lead Just walk beside me and be my friend.
Subject: Re: follow?
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:06:30 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Don't walk ahead, I may not follow ->Don't walk behind, I may not lead ->Just walk beside me and be my friend.
So BE it -- ever anew Eternally Infinitely Presently.
Subject: Re: Update
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 00:37:38 EDT
In a message dated 4/24/01 8:20:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Sharlene@Light-Mission.org writes:
<< One of the ideas that came to me was that, alcoholism is akin to aids. Aids being a condition brought on by HIV, whereas alcoholism is a result of inherited toxic conditioned thinking of low self esteem and a lack of love for self. The dis-ease of conditioning leads to many illnesses and addictions. Any way that thought goes on longer but thought I would run this one by all and see if any one else has similar thoughts or different ones to add.
[me] Not sure how alcoholism is akin to aids unless (trying to follow you here) you are stating that both are 'inherited' or 'derived from others'? One is a viral invasion that runs rampant and one is a toxic emotional/mental invasion of a certain way of thinking perhaps?
All addictions are self imposed sabotage. Sabotage of being a 'success' in however one feels one would like to achieve. Alcoholism is a way to NOT have to face reality...have a few drinks and the world feels better or you feel numbed from the pain and you don't have to deal with your responsibilities. Do it enough and it can then be classified as a disease. Drugs are the same deal. Do them enough and you aren't coherent and don't have to face the world. Or one has been conditioned with seeing one's parents take these things and somehow it's ok because you don't know any better perhaps. Parents indirectly sabotaging their children's success through being an example in this way.
I, on the other hand, believe we all have addictions. It can be as innocent as chocolate or as deadly as Ecstasy. God can be an addiction. Gambling is an addiction. Anything 'out of balance' is an addiction. Does this mean, on a psychological level, that this is 'wrong' or destructive? No...not if you do it within reason and without harm to self or others. We all find ways to cope in this world. I love it when some 350 pound person walks by the front of the building frowning at the smokers and their (tsk tsk) 'second hand smoke' while they are stuffing a donut into their mouths <grin>. How idiotic.
[you] I would like to hear more about your work Tink, if you would mind sharing with me privately or with all openly. I always have many questions about everything. [me] I am a counselor in social services in southern California. I work for the GAIN program...welfare to work. The most successful program in the nation. I have been here for several years. We strive to help others become self sufficient and get off of welfare....however, there are MANY with drug abuse issues, mental health issues (unreal...did you know that MOST of the nation is on drugs in one way or another? The statistics show that 50-75% of the American nation are on anti-depressants let alone regular 'drugs' like heart medications or allergy medications let alone illegal drugs...so WHO is LEFT?? <grin>), domestic violence issues, child protective service issues, dependency disorders, you name it...we see it. I have a caseload from 130-180 depending on how busy the month is. We are trying to take what others consider the 'waste' of society and help them turn on the 'lightbulb' within so that they can take one small step after another towards some sort of 'future' for themselves and their children and break the habits they have developed over their lifetime. My motto? NEVER GIVE UP. Thank goodness for a Kriya Yoga upbringing and my eclectic spiritual background. I am my brother's keeper:o)
These people are plagued from all sides to stay where they are at. The biggest source of pain and bashing for them are their FAMILIES. I believe that if you can change one person...you change an entire process. A person that tries to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is often met with criticism and sabotage. The reason? If they 'make it' and become independent..sorta makes everyone ELSE look bad for staying where they are at, right? So families abuse mentally and physically or they abuse subtley...passive/aggressive manipulations and I'm not talking one's spouse...I'm talking about one's parents, siblings, grandparents...aunts, uncles...'best' friends...whatever. So we have to get them to open up and talk about what goes on at home on a daily basis so that we can help them to see that they CAN believe in themselves despite criticism from every arena. I am one of those people who is in the 'fight'. The fight takes intelligence, discernment and patience. You can't beam 'lightbeams' of love at someone and say 'just say no' (DUH)...you have to actively instruct them on every subtle form of negativity they may encounter so that they can counteract it when it comes along. People should get their heads out of the Neptoonian clouds and look down HERE wherever they are at ....work on one person at a time in their community in order to restructure our world and make it better. It can get frustrating battling prejudice, discrimination and 'discounting' from the world at large. Hard to rectivity a Yogananda upbringing of 'Nonattachment' in a world gone crazy with so many screaming out in pain needing a BIG attached HUG and a good dinner and a bath, ya know? Like give me a BREAK! Who cares about cell phone laws when people are starving in the streets.
:::getting off podium:::
Tink
Love and Light....Renee
Subject: Re: Update
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:04:25 GMT
Greetings Tink, you wrote: ->:::getting off podium:::
Thank you for getting on. Thank you for sharing this *realistic* view of what is actually happening *in the streets*. For that is where we have to look to see that the grandiose notions (conditioned or fear generated) of some magical *Global Spirituality* (that is professed around the Internet) is raising our Consciousness is little more than wishful conditioned thinking.
Thanks again, more of such sharing is most welcome {8->
Subject: Re: Update
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 22:48:45 EDT
In a message dated 4/24/01 6:22:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Sharlene@Light-Mission.org writes:
<< I started this road in Dec and it has taken this long to get action. So now we wait and see........... Just thought I would share this tidbit with you. Thanks for everything. Love to all Sharlene >>
I don't know you very well but I just want to give you a hug {{{{{{{{{Sharlene}}}}}}}}}} and wish you and your brother much love and light. I have seen much of this in the work that I do as a counselor plus having some of my own family members go through this process in one way or another.
Sincerely,
Subject: Update
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:21:49 -0700
Well folks, after much ado for months, tomorrow my Brother heads to detox. We will not get excited or expect too much from this. Finally his boss and the Union have agreed to send him, with a warning that he may have to go through random drug testing during the next year, he is to attend counselling twice weekly and AA once a week. Proof of both must be provided. He is also ordered to go for checkups at the Doc's office every two weeks. Going against this means instant termination of his employment. The thing of it is that his employer has always liked him and has gone out of his role to attain this for him. Now it is up to him to save himself. I started this road in Dec and it has taken this long to get action. So now we wait and see........... Just thought I would share this tidbit with you. Thanks for everything. Love to all
Subject: Re: Update
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 20:19:23 -0700
>Thanks Tink, you wrote: >I don't know you very well but I just want to give you a hug >{{{{{{{{{Sharlene}}}}}}}}}} and wish you and your brother much love and >light. I have seen much of this in the work that I do as a counselor plus >having some of my own family members go through this process in one way or >another.
Yes, I also have had other family members do the process. As for knowing me, that's easy to solve, I am the one with the long rambles. Got the word today that my oldest cousin on my Mom's side has been given maybe three days to live. Cancer in the liver. It's been along haul for him also. Saw him in Feb and he said he was doing good. But he was wrong. This too was alcohol related as he was drinking for many years in his life, but quit to late. I have many thoughts on this topic and maybe will share them soon.
One of the ideas that came to me was that, alcoholism is akin to aids. Aids being a condition brought on by HIV, whereas alcoholism is a result of inherited toxic conditioned thinking of low self esteem and a lack of love for self. The dis-ease of conditioning leads to many illnesses and addictions. Any way that thought goes on longer but thought I would run this one by all and see if any one else has similar thoughts or different ones to add.
I would like to hear more about your work Tink, if you would mind sharing with me privately or with all openly. I always have many questions about everything.
Love and blessings
Subject: sharing
From: "Kim Thornton" <kim.thornton@leoburnett.co.za>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:21:53 +0200
hmmm. Hello all, this posting suddenly inspired me to just share something that is worrying me on a personal note. Must admit to feeling awkward just sprouting as I always get the impression that my input is not welcome. In fact the above sentence is prob the heart of the matter - I always feel so left out and ALWAYS as though I don't belong. I have put a great deal of input into trying to resolve this issue and attempting to "ground" myself wherever I may be - but no matter what environment I'm in I simply never just fit in (don't even know why this bothers me so much, maybe because everyone seems so secure and happy when they fit in).
Anyway if anyone feels inclined to chat about this, please mail me. Thanks
Subject: Re: Update
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:58:21 EDT
In a message dated 4/24/01 10:10:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ejLight@Light-Mission.org writes:
<< Thanks again, more of such sharing is most welcome {8-> >>
cool...thanks for seeing the spirit of what I was saying. Just gets frustrating when people are into the fluff stuff without applying it to real life NOT that I'm perfect here at all. I appreciate your appreciation...!
Subject: Re: Update/Wombat
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:31:05 EDT
In a message dated 4/25/01 6:13:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, labl@zeelandnet.nl writes:
<< We are in the HERE and NOW, not in the future. Not attaching to yesterday or tomorrow, letting it be as is. Everyone must walk their own path, I have yet to make mine, an interested dis-interest where I don't even hold hope, for hope is connected to the future and not today, it also shows some interest in an outcome ....phewww I hope you can follow my thought pattern here .... off to ramble on my crooked path ;-) Wombat:) >>
Yup...I get what you are saying although I haven't evolved there yet. I'm still sitting in the back of the class with the Doritos...and my hope and faith in the future...LOL...forgive me..UGH! I'm just a neophyte here on Planet Earth OR I haven't been here in a LONG time cause it's pretty foreign to me! ~ Faith ~ Faith isn't anything you can see; It isn't anything you can touch. But you can feel it in your heart. Faith is what keeps you trying When others would have given up. It keeps you believing in The goodness of others And helps you find it. Faith is trusting in a power Greater than yourself And knowing that whatever happens, This power will carry you through anything. It is believing in yourself And having the courage To stand up for what you believe in. Faith is Peace in the midst of a storm, Determination in the midst of adversity, And safety in the midst of trouble. For nothing can touch a soul That is protected by faith.
~ Barbara Cage ~
Subject: Re: Update
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 06:40:38 -0700
>Hi Wombat, > >Dear Tink, & Shar :-) >That was a pretty impressive post, says a lot for you. I don't know if it >accidently landed on the newsgroup or if it was intended to, it's so >straight from the heart and up close personal that I wondered. Still >whichever way, I had a good read.
Well, you should know me by now and know that nothing with me is private or so it seems. I look to the list for ideas, pointers and food for thought. I thank Tink for replying in the open straight forward way she did and look forward to hearing more from her.
>There are going to be problems though in the fore-seeable future as of >yesterday evening I was informed for the first time that this gentleman is >also diabetic (when under duress?) and not at other times & that there are >also chest pains. (His wife says yes, he says no) So I am trying gently to >move him towards going and seeing a GP and not to delay that.
Hmmm, a diabetic that drinks how much sugar a day? Cute.........Another case of alco-cide.
>Only too often >the little ones become half children, half in the sense that they adapt >themselves to country and language where they are staying to a degree that >it causes problems in the family later because they want to enjoy the >liberties and customs of their surroundidngs, whereas the parents often want >to hold to what is familiar and gives a degree of security to them in a >foreign country. She has understood this already, she smiled a sad smile and >said but ...(his name) and nothing more. I said well we are just going to >have to help him understand. Not in a suppressing manner but in >understanding way, that we are different and entitled to be different and >trust that along the way they won't become divided through misunderstanding >of a different culture than (their) (his) own. > > We serve less ably in emotion. >Helping without the help being understood/felt as pressurising or >suppressing, speaking the words that might offer help, yet not becoming >dis-interested if the help is not accepted, it might be accepted in the >future, it might not. Help cannot nor should touch the dignity of a person. >Some don't want it, for this reason alone.
Just letting someone know you are there to help when the time comes is enough.
>Everyone must walk their own path, I have yet >to make mine, an interested dis-interest where I don't even hold hope, for >hope is connected to the future and not today, it also shows some interest >in an outcome ....phewww I hope you can follow my thought pattern here .... >off to ramble on my crooked path ;-)
Ha ha , you are cute........Deep Bow............
Love to you
Subject: sharing & belonging
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:34:37 -0700
kim,
this may not be the kind of reply you are looking for, but then again it may be just what you need to hear...
we have all been where you are, kim, though that is small consolation for the one still there...
it will pass once you break out of the chrysalid state & become who you already are: a swallow tailed butterfly, hovering & fluttering over the upturned faces of numberless flowers in some alpine meadow - flowers that look upwards not only for the sun but for you as well to reassure them that the fruit of their labour will be delivered sometime before tomorrow's post when summer eases its naked toes into autumn's slipper... (cheesy, i know, but what the hell, it pleases me sometimes to get flowery... on the shoulders of Grouse or in the Bowery - & now rhymes are kicking in...)
you are an artist, kim, & in time, as you unveil & unfold your Self, you will be grateful that you went to 'this school' as opposed to the 'other'...
as mr wynter said in a spirit list post: the ego is your what you create for conformity so that everyone likes you but yourself...
just curious - was it this posting that: 'suddenly inspired me to share something...' ?
kim, i have been an 'outsider' for 50 years; i have oozed my way into the wet suit twice - both times knowing that i was a poseur & yet both times 'trying to fit into a shoe that wasn't made for me....'
in the end i discovered that it wasn't a shoe i was looking for - it was my Self, my naked Self that wanted nothing more than to walk on the 'skin of the earth' barefooted...
as an addendum & you say it yourself: everyone Seems so secure & happy when they fit it...
the operative word is: Seems... only time & experience will show you How it Really Is... though i know not myself, nor much care...
light out of darkness, kim,
with admiration, respect & affection, take care, walker zamboni
Subject: Re: sharing
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:11:51 GMT
Greetings Kim, you wrote: ->Anyway if anyone feels inclined to chat about this, please mail me.
Indeed, this is the place to "chat about it". Welcome and thank you for coming out and rubbing shoulders with us. I say that this is The Place for such discussion because no doubt others would like the input even if they do not participate in the discussion. By the way, I would say that you are already making progress in your *shyness* by coming out of doors and saying anything. We will never know whether what we may think is valid unless we use others as a *sounding board*. We may not always get the feedback we are looking for, but this is one place you will not be condemned for asking. You might be told to soften the cranium and not be so hard headed, or at least be Open to consideration, but the only ones I tell to "Shut Up" are the religionists proselytizing there religion. This is a *People Place* not a *religion place*.
So, the Red Carpet is rolled out.....
->hmmm. Hello all, this posting suddenly inspired me to just share something that is worrying me on a personal note. Must admit to feeling awkward just sprouting as I always get the impression that my input is not welcome.
I am glad you were so inspired, for everyone is welcome here. Even if one's input is something to laugh about, here we laugh together and not at each other. And I would hope that was seen in the posts you have read before you made your debut presentation, we are Helpers and Servers here {8-> Just be Open, and *consider* even if it does not go along with your thinking. And especially be Honest with yourself. We are a Family here, not just an e-mail discussion group. So I would ask that you contrive no "impressions" about the impact of your offerings until you have gotten feedback. In the feedback we might say "that is dumb", but at least wait until we say it before preconceiving some false notion. For who knows, we might say "profound" {8->
->In fact the above sentence is prob the heart of the matter - I always feel so left out and ALWAYS as though I don't belong.
Indeed it might be the crux of your dilemma. Could it be that you have always felt out of place because you never joined in ? Could it be that you never gave where ever you were the chance to make you feel in place ? OR has it been that you really never did "fit in" because your *Inner Drummer* plays a different tune ? And you have yet to find the place where like Tunes have been playing ? Perhaps here at this little Oasis you will notice we are rejects of the world at large because we too have not "fit in". For we, as perhaps you, have not really been to susceptible to *conformity*. In fact that is what this little Oasis was established for, to let go of all notions to conform to the Sleeping world and BE the True Nature we ARE. To Lose ourself and BE ourSelf. So if you *think* you are an outcast, *you ain't seen nothin' yet* {8->
->I have put a great deal of input into trying to resolve this issue and attempting to "ground" myself wherever I may be - but no matter what environment
This is all fine and well, for we actually do have to function in the world at large. We are indeed *in* the world. But I would plead with you to not try to be *of* the world. Enjoy a certain functionality *in* the world, but BE who YOU really ARE. In this Community you may very well Realize the difference between being a conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automaton and BEing the True Nature you ARE IN/AS your Awakening.
->I'm in I simply never just fit in (don't even know why this bothers me so much, maybe because everyone seems so secure and happy when they fit in).
Well... do not let it bother you because perhaps IF you are Open and Honest this little Oasis Family Community can Help you Understand both the problem and what you have to do to resolve the problem. Because you will not find any Saviors here, we have to Save ourself just like you have to Save yourself. The Key is that we can Help each other.
So, make yourself at Home and Share as much as you like -- we are all Ears, and I do not mean that we are elephants {8-|
Subject: Re: Update
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:02:54 +0200
----- Original Message ----- From: <LaRAZZZA@aol.com> To: <missionoflight-l@light-mission.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 6:37 AM Subject: Re: Update
Dear Tink, & Shar :-) That was a pretty impressive post, says a lot for you. I don't know if it accidently landed on the newsgroup or if it was intended to, it's so straight from the heart and up close personal that I wondered. Still whichever way, I had a good read.
The husband, of a newly acquired friend, says he drinks only a little bit :-) he regards 14 to 16 cans of beer a day, a little bit, because it isn't hard liquor. Same goes for smoking. [ This is not a judgment, just telling the way it is.] The gentleman asked for reiki to be sent to *cure* him of this. Reiki isn't a cure and healing and cure are 2 different things. Happily for me, we danced through our language barriers carefully enough to discern, that actually he ** likes ** drinking, he likes the taste of it, ditto for smoking, "couldn't reiki be sent for just a little bit of alcohol and cigarettes?" :-))) He didn't really understand my answer though, I asked him in return, why I should send reiki to him to help him 'heal' himself of something he ** liked ** doing so much? There are going to be problems though in the fore-seeable future as of yesterday evening I was informed for the first time that this gentleman is also diabetic (when under duress?) and not at other times & that there are also chest pains. (His wife says yes, he says no) So I am trying gently to move him towards going and seeing a GP and not to delay that.
He makes a fair bit of overtime. I find it hard telling a man, that if he feels he must do this in support of his family in India, where most of his (very poor) family depend on him, that it will serve no purpose to become very ill himself, due to becoming physically ill, & overworked. I have tried gently to explain how he has landed himself in a vicious circle and how the one holds relationship to the other. The awkward thing is that you get facts in bits & pieces. It's my impression that real stuff gets brushed off & less important day to day things get magnified. I have to pay attention and listen carefully. Which one might do anyway of course:) Last year his beloved brother died .... diabetic, blinded by it, heart dis-ease, and only one, badly functioning kidney. The bright side of this human narrative is, that his wife is going to school daily and studying hard to learn this incredibly tough language and she is progressing very encouragingly. We spoke amongst ourselves of how the future might shape itself with there also being a little baby girl. Only too often the little ones become half children, half in the sense that they adapt themselves to country and language where they are staying to a degree that it causes problems in the family later because they want to enjoy the liberties and customs of their surroundidngs, whereas the parents often want to hold to what is familiar and gives a degree of security to them in a foreign country. She has understood this already, she smiled a sad smile and said but ...(his name) and nothing more. I said well we are just going to have to help him understand. Not in a suppressing manner but in understanding way, that we are different and entitled to be different and trust that along the way they won't become divided through misunderstanding of a different culture than (their) (his) own.
Moving away from this narrative... it brings me directly into contact with what we are trying to establish as lightworkers/thinkers here ourselves. Not separating ourselves from the world, but being IN the world. Yet while being IN the world and not separate from it, NOT delving into the emotion of it, for no one is served by our emotion of it. We serve less ably in emotion. Helping without the help being understood/felt as pressurising or suppressing, speaking the words that might offer help, yet not becoming dis-interested if the help is not accepted, it might be accepted in the future, it might not. Help cannot nor should touch the dignity of a person. Some don't want it, for this reason alone. We are in the HERE and NOW, not in the future. Not attaching to yesterday or tomorrow, letting it be as is. Everyone must walk their own path, I have yet to make mine, an interested dis-interest where I don't even hold hope, for hope is connected to the future and not today, it also shows some interest in an outcome ....phewww I hope you can follow my thought pattern here .... off to ramble on my crooked path ;-) Wombat:)
Subject: Re: Update
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:05:56 -0600
Wombat wrote:
> The awkward thing is that you get facts in bits & pieces. It's my impression > that real stuff gets brushed off & less important day to day things get > magnified. I have to pay attention and listen carefully. Which one might do > anyway of course:) >
Thanks for your (gently clipped) posting to which I relate well. I am currently in a similar situation with a family, although not for alcohol. Money, and the love of/for it can be equally destructive. I got involved back in mid January when it came to my attention that this family (with the youngest at 7 years and the oldest at 77 years and the main providers in the range of 40/50 years) were in deep financial trouble. It was only a matter of days before the bottom would have fallen out and they would soon thereafter be out in the frigid Northern Cold weather with no where to go nor anyone to turn to.
They are good honest, hard working people who took a wrong turn in this maze called life. The path has led them to a "dead end". I am just being their guide to show them the way out and point them in the right direction. For now they are safe, and we deal with whatever needs to be dealt with in each moment.
I too place no "hope in the future", for hope resonates of possible failure and besides we ARE in the moment. My dealings are mostly with the husband/father/son-in-law to the family who understands ~ so progress is being made with each moment, taking small step, and treading very carefully.
(((Love)))
Subject: Re: sharing
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:08:22 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Hi Kim ~ Welcome to the Oasis and thank you for "sharing" your concern. Sounds like me (years ago) :)) Now you have dipped your toe in the water - how does it feel? I'll be more than happy to chat with you on this. We can either do it here or privately if you are more comfortable (for now).
Subject: Re: Update
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 06:22:33 -0700
>Hi Tink, >[me] >Not sure how alcoholism is akin to aids unless (trying to follow you here) >you are stating that both are 'inherited' or 'derived from others'?
Yes, thats what I mean. I don't mean the same dis-ease but one that is created by another.
>All addictions are self imposed sabotage. Sabotage of being a 'success' in >however one feels one would like to achieve.
Yes, it's true.
> Alcoholism is a way to NOT have >to face reality...have a few drinks and the world feels better or you feel >numbed from the pain and you don't have to deal with your responsibilities.
Not just resposibilities, as there are functional alcoholics, but a way to bury how one feels about themselves.
> Or one has been conditioned with seeing one's parents take these >things and somehow it's ok because you don't know any better perhaps. >Parents indirectly sabotaging their children's success through being an >example in this way.
Not just by example. Many alcoholics and drug addicts have clean and sober parents. But clean and sober by no means -means that they don't help in the sabotage in other ways.
>I, on the other hand, believe we all have addictions. It can be as innocent >as chocolate or as deadly as Ecstasy. God can be an addiction. Gambling is >an addiction. Anything 'out of balance' is an addiction.
It is true, we are an addicted society. TV and video games are the latest addictions and not many seem to see the truth in that. Golf,running or any sport can also be an addiction.
> Does this mean, on >a psychological level, that this is 'wrong' or destructive? No...not if you >do it within reason and without harm to self or others.
Anything done in moderation doesn't need to be destructive to oneself. Yet even addictions can be denied by controlling impulses. It doesn't mean the addiction isn't there, it just means we are under the illusion of self control. So many things done on a daily basis is or can be an addiction.
> We all find ways to >cope in this world. I love it when some 350 pound person walks by the front >of the building frowning at the smokers and their (tsk tsk) 'second hand >smoke' while they are stuffing a donut into their mouths <grin>. How idiotic.
Yes, I am familiar with this method of thinking. Like a non smoking bar or restaurant. Lets get drunk in a smoke free enviroment. Which reminds me. They are in the process of making it a law to put warnings on the labels of alcoholic beverages that says drinking while pregnant can cause FAS. Where is the warning of addiction and other related dis-eases caused by alcohol? One could say that alcoholism is supported by the government. They want to get it that smoke related illness is not covered by health insurance, and yet drug and alcohol gets plenty of money for needle exchanges, treatment centers, and counsellors. Things like liver damage caused by drinking is still covered. As is spousal and child abuse inflicted by a drunk by providing safe houses etc. It's a crazy world and its getting crazier.
>however, there are MANY with drug abuse >issues, mental health issues (unreal...did you know that MOST of the nation >is on drugs in one way or another? The statistics show that 50-75% of the >American nation are on anti-depressants let alone regular 'drugs' like heart >medications or allergy medications let alone illegal drugs...so WHO is LEFT??
We are a self medicated society. We seem to fall short in the working on the case of the problem to take the easy way out. Get them in-drug them- and send them out. I won't even touch the subject of health care. Doctors have lost the care factor to the cash flow. Desire and greed are the root of our suffering no matter which way we look at it.
> <grin>), domestic violence issues, child protective service issues, >dependency disorders, you name it...we see it. I have a caseload from >130-180 depending on how busy the month is.
There are 20 days per month, how many minutes are given to each one? Thats one of our major problems and yet it isn't the root of the problem. The root of the problem begins when we are born and the conditions we are born into. And it's getting worse, not better.
> We are trying to take what >others consider the 'waste' of society and help them turn on the 'lightbulb' >within so that they can take one small step after another towards some sort >of 'future' for themselves and their children and break the habits they have >developed over their lifetime. My motto? NEVER GIVE UP. Thank goodness for >a Kriya Yoga upbringing and my eclectic spiritual background. I am my >brother's keeper:o)
Thats why this center we wish to construct is also important.
>These people are plagued from all sides to stay where they are at. The >biggest source of pain and bashing for them are their FAMILIES. I believe >that if you can change one person...you change an entire process. A person >that tries to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is often met with >criticism and sabotage.
Yes, change yourself and rest will follow. or not : ) If not, change anyway.
> The reason? If they 'make it' and become >independent..sorta makes everyone ELSE look bad for staying where they are >at, right? So families abuse mentally and physically or they abuse >subtley...passive/aggressive manipulations and I'm not talking one's >spouse...
I would add spouse to the list. They can carry on what was started at home, or start the process themselves.
>I'm talking about one's parents, siblings, grandparents...aunts, >uncles...'best' friends...whatever. So we have to get them to open up and >talk about what goes on at home on a daily basis so that we can help them to >see that they CAN believe in themselves despite criticism from every arena.
I am familiar with this.I see the results everyday. And its labelled love...........HA! wrong......
>I am one of those people who is in the 'fight'. The fight takes >intelligence, discernment and patience. You can't beam 'lightbeams' of love >at someone and say 'just say no' (DUH)...
I hear ya,
> People should get their heads out of the >Neptoonian clouds and look down HERE wherever they are at ....work on one >person at a time in their community in order to restructure our world and >make it better.
I'm still trying this at the home front.
> It can get frustrating battling prejudice, discrimination >and 'discounting' from the world at large.
Red tape is the hardest thing to fight through. Human right acts protect dis-ease as well as rights. But where does one draw a line. It's easier to put someone on welfare and allow them to continue with their disease then it is try and help them. It's like two different parts of an agency working against each other in many cases. How does one get another to commit themselves when they are not mentally capable to recognize they have a problem?
>Hard to rectivity a Yogananda >upbringing of 'Nonattachment' in a world gone crazy with so many screaming >out in pain needing a BIG attached HUG and a good dinner and a bath, ya know?
Yes, but even the hug has been outlawed and now labelled as abuse if done without permission.
> Like give me a BREAK! Who cares about cell phone laws when people are >starving in the streets.
I know what you are saying, and the only answer we are given is that they are starving on the streets by personal choice and until they want to change forget it. You can't go to them, but have to wait until they come to you. We support their habits and addictions which is sending the message that it is okay. There is no difference between the addict on the street and the addict at home. The addict at home has family support to remain an addict. In most cases it's the family,the enablers that need the counselling and education.
I get so angry at my Dad for what he does for my brother. He lectures him for hours on straightening up and begging him to quit drinking, then turns around and gives him money to buy alcohol. Then he goes downstairs, finds the bottles and takes them away from him. Only to give it back when he gets shit for taking it. Dad will hide his wallet, take his cash card to prevent him from buying more, then gives it back after an hours worth of arguing and lecturing. It's a sick relationship. He wants to think he is doing him some good only to turn around and feed the addiction again. Doesn't want the guilt so has to convince himself that he is helping him. Yet he won't listen to Mom and I. He just breaks down in tears and tells us how sick he is and how sick Darrell is. Then off he goes to bed to pout. Yesterday when we found out there was an opening in the detox center and Darrell gets in, Dad wanted to lecture him on what to do, how to do it, and interfer anyway he can. What he doesn't realize is that he can't control what happens to Darrell in the center. He doesn't want him to suffer. Come on for God's sake Dad. he is already suffering. He turns a deaf ear to truth and sees his son with blinders on. Wonder if I could send Dad to detox for withdrawl from the need to control. Where does he get the idea that he is always right? Must be that ex-military conditioned thinking of a Sergeant. I love my Dad but I sure don't love his thinking. Anyway, I get carried away.
>:::getting off podium:::
Step back on any time. You seem to have plenty to offer us and we are always open to listen and share. Thank you
Subject: Re: sharing
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:56:24 EDT
In a message dated 4/25/01 8:25:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kim.thornton@leoburnett.co.za writes:
<< hmmm. Hello all, this posting suddenly inspired me to just share something that is worrying me on a personal note. Must admit to feeling awkward just sprouting as I always get the impression that my input is not welcome.
[me] Well I don't know you and am fairly new here and I always feel like the oddball in groups too so don't feel alone! Just realize that I work during the day so often can't 'reply' (unless the owner of the list could kindly subscribe my work email address RSerrano@riversidedpss.org to the list as I can't remember how to DO that...! HA!) until the evening when I get home.
[you] In fact the above sentence is prob the heart of the matter - I always feel so left out and ALWAYS as though I don't belong.
[me] I often OFTEN feel that way. I feel like I am standing in the middle of several metaphysical groups because I draw from ALL if that makes sense yet belong to NONE. Raised in Self Realization Fellowship yet mom was a whacked out reader who all belonged to various faiths from Kahuna based to Santera's (carribean based religions...Yoruba) to Jewish to Christian to buddhist...whatever...then she belonged to various bizarre groups from Al Manning to Alice Bailey studies, Rosicrucian's, BOTA (of which I'm still a member) and to top THAT off she belonged to the Daughters of the American Revolution as our family came over on ze Mayflower on her side of the family. My father is Hispanic with a LONG history as well. Mutt belonging to none yet relating to all. Being an astrologer...it has been an EYE opening experience on the web because they have their OWN cliques and often make fun of Christianity and reject anything relating to 'God' that they like to refer to as the 'One' or various other names that ALL mean the same thing if they would get their heads out of their you know what's! No one seems to want to look at reality anyway so whatever! LOL
[you] I have put a great deal of input into trying to resolve this issue and attempting to "ground" myself wherever I may be - but no matter what environment I'm in I simply never just fit in (don't even know why this bothers me so much, maybe because everyone seems so secure and happy when they fit in).
[me] Well hey...you just go ahead and talk. I'll listen and try to help if I can. I don't think you are odd or anything...no more than ME...hehe.
[you] Anyway if anyone feels inclined to chat about this, please mail me.
[me] Here I am! Want a dorito? :::passing dorito's:::
Subject: Re: Update/Sharlene
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:49:23 EDT
In a message dated 4/25/01 8:25:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Sharlene@Light-Mission.org writes:
<< I get so angry at my Dad for what he does for my brother. He lectures him for hours on straightening up and begging him to quit drinking, then turns around and gives him money to buy alcohol. Then he goes downstairs, finds the bottles and takes them away from him. Only to give it back when he gets shit for taking it. Dad will hide his wallet, take his cash card to prevent him from buying more, then gives it back after an hours worth of arguing and lecturing. It's a sick relationship. He wants to think he is doing him some good only to turn around and feed the addiction again. Doesn't want the guilt so has to convince himself that he is helping him. Yet he won't listen to Mom and I. He just breaks down in tears and tells us how sick he is and how sick Darrell is. Then off he goes to bed to pout. Yesterday when we found out there was an opening in the detox center and Darrell gets in, Dad wanted to lecture him on what to do, how to do it, and interfer anyway he can. What he doesn't realize is that he can't control what happens to Darrell in the center. He doesn't want him to suffer. Come on for God's sake Dad. he is already suffering. He turns a deaf ear to truth and sees his son with blinders on. Wonder if I could send Dad to detox for withdrawl from the need to control. Where does he get the idea that he is always right? Must be that ex-military conditioned thinking of a Sergeant. I love my Dad but I sure don't love his thinking. Anyway, I get carried away. >:::getting off podium::: Step back on any time. You seem to have plenty to offer us and we are always open to listen and share. Thank you Love Shar >>
Well firstly, I am an astrologer <grin>. You can see the family lineage in the chart, by the way. In America's birthchart...Neptune is on the Midheaven (reputation in the world) and Neptune is all about ADDICTIONS....LOL (laughing out loud).
Secondly...control is an addiction too as you stated. Biggest problem we have I think as humans is that we are arrogant and seek to control everything! Just let it be! Accountability is lost in our society at least here in America. You spare the rod...you spoil the child...ya know? It's less pain NOW in teaching children accountability than it is to watch them grow up with bigger problems that they can't 'wean' themselves from due to ennabling from others.
My dad does the same thing with my brother but in terms of MONEY. Multi-millionaire but when my brother messes up...he bails him out in his business to the tune of MILLIONS. Long story but vice comes in many packages. And here I am in social work...and my dad doesn't get WHY "why are you wasting yourself on the masses? You should get a HAPPY job" ohhh..ok...like at Disneyland for 8 bucks an hour? DUH...get a grip! Look around you! He said to me a few months ago "when I die...I want something left so people can remember me. I would like to build a park in Sonora (he's on the border in Arizona) so that children can play there and know I built it" and I go "uhhhhhh...gee...why not build a clinic and FUND it with a trust fund so that people can get MEDICAL CARE Dad?" and he looked totally uncomfortable like I had just shoved his gift down his throat and chastised him (which I guess I had done). Got totally pissed. Then he got mad his surround sound system wasn't as great as he thought it would be so he got up, changed the subject and stated how he couldn't figure out where else he should put extra speakers. "Where do YOU think I should put speakers?" <trying to suck me into a trivial subject and CONDONE his way of thinking> "I really don't care...there ARE bigger problems out there than your damn speakers!" course he got mad again. Just like a child. People just want to 'feel good' and stroke their own ego's...self gratification to the max. Pisses me off.
So I totally agree with you on your points. Like how do you get the world to LISTEN? In the midst of all this chaos...I try to remember this ...LOL...below... People are often unreasonable,illogical,and self-centered; Forgive them anyway. If you are kind,people may accuse you of selfish ulterior motives; Be kind anyway. If you are successful, you will win some false freinds and some true enemies; Succeed anyway. If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; Be honest and frank anyway. What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; Build anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; Be happy anyway. The good you do today, people will forget tomorrow; Do good anyway. Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; Give the world the best you've got anyway. You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; It was never between you and them anyway.
~Mother Teresa~
Subject: a postkard from ethiopia
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:11:30 -0700
theoretikal knowledge of the uselessness of material attraktions is not enuff to kure the desire for them...
no matter how far u venture into the desert, the world will always follow u: the ear is always glued to the bell of the hollow horn...
why? - becuz no man is an island... becuz man is man & no matter how spiritual a man may be, the physikal world will over-rule the spiritual... & also becuz the hollow horn makes a sound like no other... not even the thunderbox...
again, why? - becuz the physikal is too gross to slip into the spiritual... as long as we live in the physikal world, our spirituality will be burdened with physikal substance... there is no way around this: we Are where & what we Are & that's all that we Are... the physikal is the gravity that keeps the Angels earthbound...
this is a fakt: though we may kontinually die & kontinually kill the bogosity within our Selves, we kan never really destroy it - becuz - we are Here... the holy men are all sequestered in the mount athos dorm or sleeping in the subway stations in stanton, ohio... i don't know...
the best we kan do is to imprison the imposter, though due to this Weird duality, we, ourselves are the imposters...
essentially, one kan never have true Self-knowledge except for the knowledge which arises from praktikle experience...
- this from a letter of a former french policeman, a grunt in the foreign legion & a bus-bouy in ur lokal mickey-dees...
Subject: Re: sharing
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 03:21:05 GMT
->(unless the owner of the list could kindly ->subscribe my work email address RSerrano@riversidedpss.org to the list as I ->can't remember how to DO that...! HA!)
As of this Moment you are now a subscriber at both addresses, Tink. I think the "owner" is in a straight-jacket in some booby-hatchery somewhere, I just *Keep The Peace* and am a Goffer to take care of administrative type drudgery. That is not complaining mind you for the benefits are Great, though the pay stinks (none union, you know).
Subject: Re: a postkard from ethiopia
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:06:02 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->theoretikal knowledge of the uselessness of material attraktions is not ->enuff to kure the desire for them...
*Deep Bow* "Knowledge", theoretical or otherwise, is the very Trickster that keeps us clinging to materiality. So, stop thinking and there would be no clinging. For it should be quite easy, as it comes quite naturally for you Dear Friend {8->
->no matter how far u venture into the desert, the world will always follow u: ->the ear is always glued to the bell of the hollow horn...
Au contraire, the world does not follow us but rather WE drag it with us. WE are the ones who packs the "hollow horn", and it is WE who holds it to our ear, and it is WE who are watchful that the world is at the other end of the chain that WE shackled ourself to the world with. WE are to blame that the world is always with us.
->why? - becuz no man is an island... becuz man is man & no matter how ->spiritual a man may be, the physikal world will over-rule the spiritual... ->& also becuz the hollow horn makes a sound like no other... not even the ->thunderbox...
You have not gone over to the right pew yet Dear Friend, with this Dualistic notion of separation. When you separate yourself from the island and the spiritual and the practical and the horn and the sound and the thunderbox, and desirous of such, you separate yourself from Awakening. YOU separate YOU. As there can not be Two. When we make the Two again One, then we are Free to BE the True Nature What-IS that we actually ARE.
->again, why? - becuz the physikal is too gross to slip into the spiritual... ->as long as we live in the physikal world, our spirituality will be burdened ->with physikal substance... there is no way around this: we Are where & what ->we Are & that's all that we Are... the physikal is the gravity that keeps ->the Angels earthbound...
Duality is "gross". A gross misunderstanding of What-IS. Put the Two back together again Dear Friend. Awakening is a Totality, though we are conditioned to *think* that it is a bunch of pieces.
->this is a fakt: though we may kontinually die & kontinually kill the ->bogosity within our Selves, we kan never really destroy it - becuz - we are ->Here... the holy men are all sequestered in the mount athos dorm or ->sleeping in the subway stations in stanton, ohio... i don't know...
We are not destroyers. Freedom is not in destroying, though it is in Slaying the Slayer of the Real, it is nothing left to let go of. We are *in* the world but we must not be *of* the world. "Holy" ? Awakening is not "holy" but rather *Wholly*.
->the best we kan do is to imprison the imposter, though due to this Weird ->duality, we, ourselves are the imposters...
*Roaring Laughter* What can an inmate imprison ? Where do you *think* you are ?
->essentially, one kan never have true Self-knowledge except for the knowledge ->which arises from praktikle experience...
Au contraire again, for Self-Knowledge IS to "know thyself". And to "know thyself" is in the Self-Observation of our every conditioned thought and every conditioned action and letting go of those Veiling conditioned defilements. Yet, there is no Truth or Reality beyond Direct Experience of such. Which is not knowledge, but rather Understanding What-IS.
Subject: Re: Update
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:38:09 +0200
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org> To: <MissionOfLight-l@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:21 AM Subject: Update
Dear Shar, This afternoon, I didn't look in on the group, LaRazza still comes in on my regular e-mail's <s> I have to ask hubby's help to let her float into the little group he created for me separately so I didn't see or read this post of yours till now. May it all go so well for your brother and you and family. Love to you all and best wishes:)
Subject: Re: sharing
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:48:19 +0200
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Thornton" <kim.thornton@leoburnett.co.za> To: <missionoflight-l@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:21 PM Subject: sharing
Dear Kim, May you feel exceedingly welcome here amongst us. I am myself a sorta of perpetual novice here ;-). For you to feel so unwelcome, might well come from your own inner thought patterns. What an awful shame that you would ** deprive ** us so easily of your company !! :-)))
Thought for today <:::::::::::::::::::]========0 ..... (wheee.... I managed one too ;-) I am welcome, I am as worthy as anyone else. I will stay here and enjoy myself I will allow myself to be made welcome :-)))) ... what do you say, will that do the trick:)? Kindest regards to you - Wombat:)
Subject: Re: Rays :-)
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:52:06 +0200
Dear Ray, I reverently snipped these two posts. These remarks stuck out the most to me and I have to say how I love the humour in there too. I will endeavour to remember always to have *intestinal fortitude* :-))) it's a glass full of mirth, and so hugely true !!
Ray 25-4-2001 The beginning of understanding is the acknowledgement that we do not understand. The beginning of Clarity is the acknowledgement that we are confused.
Ray 26-4-2001 Man would give up anything including life itself for some cause whether it be noble or folly, yet will refuse to give up even a shred of a minor Cause of his Suffering.
First we must get up the * intestinal fortitude* to Openly Honestly look into the Mirror of Truth and Realize that we have to do something about the automatonic Reflection we see in that Mirror.Then we can take step by step to remove the defilements that the Reflection portrays, making the Reflection Unfold AS who we actually ARE. Kindest regards and good wishes -
Subject: Re: Update
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:03:26 +0200
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:40 PM
> >Hi Wombat, Hi Gal :)
respectfully snipped: > = Shar *** = Wombat
> Well, you should know me by now and know that nothing with me is private or > so it seems. > I look to the list for ideas, pointers and food for thought. > I thank Tink for replying in the open straight forward way she did and > look forward to hearing more from her.
**** :-) I was merely being cautious, once on another newsgroup, someone replied to a like situation and got chewed out for having the nerve to enter into a private conversation, ha ha ha. Yes indeed, one of the reasons you are cherished!
> Hmmm, a diabetic that drinks how much sugar a day? Cute.........Another > case of alco-cide. *** Precisely so.
> Just letting someone know you are there to help when the time comes is enough. *** Yes indeed.
> Ha ha , you are cute........Deep Bow............ *** oh yeah? - that's a nice change ! ;-) .... bows make me uncomfortable but thank you for the kind thought though.
Greetings and love
Subject: Re: Update
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 01:26:25 +0200
From: Gary L. Rocha=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 5:05 PM
Gary wrote in answer to Wombat April 25. slightly snipped with reverence=20 W =3D ***
I am currently in a similar situation with a family, although not for = alcohol. Money, and the love of/for it can be equally destructive.=20 **** Another form of addiction indeed Gary.
I got involved back in mid January when it came to my attention that = this family (with the youngest at 7 years and the oldest at 77 years and = the main providers in the range of 40/50 years) were in deep financial = trouble. It was only a matter of days before the bottom would have = fallen out and they would soon thereafter be out in the frigid Northern = Cold weather with no where to go nor anyone to turn to. **** Awful really isn't it? In this Country (the Netherlands) there = are so many sources you can turn to for aid, that you would almost need = a book of directives. The thought that people can be turned out into the = cold and some wouldn't bat an eye, whereas they would be crying over a = puppydog or cat (rightly so !) but somehow manage to mind less about = human beings. They are good honest, hard working people who took a wrong turn in = this maze called life. The path has led them to a "dead end". I am just = being their guide to show them the way out and point them in the right = direction. For now they are safe, and we deal with whatever needs to be = dealt with in each moment.=20
*** How very kind Gary! May I ask, when you do it in this fashion, = does it become clearer to your friends that in *the moment* it is a = little less chaotic, that it brings some rest in amongst their = difficulties?
I too place no "hope in the future", for hope resonates of possible = failure and besides we ARE in the moment. My dealings are mostly with = the husband/father/son-in-law to the family who understands ~ so = progress is being made with each moment, taking small step, and treading = very carefully.=20
*** Ahhhh, another facet of "hope in the future" .... possible = failure, I wouldn't have thought of that,.....another good reason for me = to pay more attention to this. The frog hops again ;-)
A question Gary, if I may.... let us assume for a moment it succeeds, = (positive thinking:) are we allowed a smile and a warm feeling, or is = this yet another little trap of attaching to the outcome I wonder. Where = do I put positive thinking? Is that here and now, or involvement too? Oh = dear, that's more than one question.
Subject: Re: sharing
From: "Sharlene1" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:15:09 -0700
> Well I don't know you and am fairly new here and I always feel like the > oddball in groups too so don't feel alone
Welcome to the list of oddballs. Input is always welcomed as it is through sharing that we find we are not as odd as we thought. Thoughts being some sort of conditioned notion we have allowed to become our truth.
We are unique, we are odd, and we are grateful for the difference. Who wants to be the same as everyone else? Talk about cloning........no thanks........
The only thing that is similar is our working toward waking up.
Thats all........dare to shine in your uniqueness.......
Love
Subject: Re: Update
From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:23:51 -0700
This thing about "attaching' to an outcome and the idea that we must avoid attachment to an outcome...I gotta ask a question here.
Don't we all attach to an outcome everyday? Like when you get up in the morning and swing yourself out of bed, aren't you attaching to the idea that there is a FLOOR to put your feet on? You know...simple things like that? I never agreed with this 'no attachment' idea in the first place (just my opinion here). We all assume things all day from the most mundane to the most sacred to SOME degree I would think. Hmmmmm...
Tink
Subject: Re: Attachment.
From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:12:18 -0700
Ok...just because you know it IS there (the floor) does not mean you are NOT attached to the outcome of swinging your legs out of bed.
Whether you 'ponder' whether the floor is there or 'assume' the floor is there...the result is still the same...you are 'attached' to the idea that the floor 'should' be there. I mean you look forward to using the floor to get to ze coffee pot, ze doritos or ze bathroom...LOL
My point is that a person could be 'so' obsessed with NOT attaching to the outcome of everything...that they are 'attached' to the 'thought process' of NON attachment ...know what I mean? "To attach or not to attach...that is the question'...hehe
Right now I'm attached to my coffee and I'm not ashamed to shout it from the rooftops...where IS that MJB anyway?
Human Tink <grin>
Subject: Re: Update/Wombat
From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:48:34 -0700
what little group? This is LaRazzza from work half asleep and meditating on coffee....
Subject: Re: Update
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:17:34 -0500
This thing about "attaching' to an outcome and the idea that we must avoid attachment to an outcome...I gotta ask a question here.
Hi Tink;
you said: "Don't we all attach to an outcome everyday? Like when you get up in the morning and swing yourself out of bed, aren't you attaching to the idea that there is a FLOOR to put your feet on? You know...simple things like that? I never agreed with this 'no attachment' idea in the first place (just my opinion here). We all assume things all day from the most mundane to the most sacred to SOME degree I would think. Hmmmmm..."
Hmmmmm indeed. But I think you are confusing things a bit here.
Some define Karma not as what happens, but attachment to the outcome......
Perhaps assume less.... you place feet on the floor and walk, no assumptions necessary, you walk to the sink, get a drink, go potty, no assumptions necessary.
Not attaching means not identifying with what is occuring. When we start analyzing everything, placing expectation on ourselves, others and the world that it be not what it is in that moment but what we want it to be, what our conditioned notions tell us it should be, then we have reacted, we have identified with it, we are attached.
Or so it seems.
Have fun, take gentle care
Subject: Thank you and much love...
From: "Kim Thornton" <kim.thornton@leoburnett.co.za>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:13:14 +0200
.. to all! Will elaborate on this mail on Monday but briefly want to say that I consider myself a universal traveller and seem to have chosen to bring with me a certain amount of empathic ability in this reality - which sometimes takes its toll when I choose to surround myself with people who are quite closed or who emanate confusion or pain and subconsciously act from this base instead of their true one - my emotional frequencies at the time determine my reactions. Yesterday I felt particularly bogged down and flung out an insecurity and may light encompass every one of you, I found support and love on the sort of mature, open level I have been seeking for a long time. Thank you.
Love to you all.
Subject: Re: Thank you and much love...
From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:55:03 -0700
{{{{{{{{{{{Kim}}}}}}}}}}}
Tink here...hope you have a MUCH better day today:o)
Subject: Re: Update
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:22:19 -0600
Wombat wrote:
> A question Gary, if I may.... let us assume for a moment it succeeds, (positive thinking:) > > are we allowed a smile and a warm feeling, or is this yet another little trap of attaching > > to the outcome I wonder. Where do I put positive thinking? Is that here and now, or > > involvement too? Oh dear, that's more than one question. >
Hi Wombat! I hear you. At one time I would have asked the precisely same question. BEing in the "present" and dealing with what needs to be dealt with in the "moment" ... I "assume" nothing nor do I "believe" anything. Simply put - I just DO whatever. This is very difficult since with each taking action in the moment, I am bombarded with the conditioned (memory/thought of) fears of the "what if?" BEing AWARE of this happening in the moment, I can "react" or "respond" to my conditioned fears. From having been to "Hell" (and burnt) many times by "reacting", and to "Heaven" (attaining peaceful just outcome) by "responding" - and learning to NOT act as a programmed robot, I DO (respond) whatever. IN this state of BEing, COSMIC LAW is free to DO that which IS JUST. In my own life (present incarnation), "proof is in the pudding" :) Yes I DO "smile", and yes I DO have "warm feeling" Whatever IS IN THE MOMENT - IS.
Subject: Re: Attachment.
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:52:37 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
This thing about "attaching' to an outcome and the idea that we must avoid attachment to an outcome...I gotta ask a question here.
Don't we all attach to an outcome everyday? Like when you get up in the morning and swing yourself out of bed, aren't you attaching to the idea that there is a FLOOR to put your feet on? You know...simple things like that? I never agreed with this 'no attachment' idea in the first place (just my opinion here). We all assume things all day from the most mundane to the most sacred to SOME degree I would think. Hmmmmm... Tink
Hi Tink! Conditioned thinking does tell me that I am (of) attached to the 'things' of this world .... you are quite correct! However, I am letting go of such conditioning. BEing as I am IN this world ... I know the floor is there to meet my feet when I swing them out of bed in the mornings. I do not have to "assume", be "attached", nor "believe" it (the floor) is there. It simply IS! "A COURSE IN MIRACLES" explains this much better than I!
Subject: Re: Attachment.
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:33:48 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Yes ... I do know exactly what you mean! Yet again I bring up the question of semantics. There are many postings (in the archives) pertaining to both subjects: use of words, and attachment. :))
.... and now to my caffeine fix of the day ... an "attachment" for sure ... lol
(((Love)))
Subject: Re:
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 04:08:54 GMT
Greetings Gary, you wrote: -> Yet . . . until one understands what IS LIVING LIFE, the printed word can (sometimes - for some) help towards that understanding . . . no? :))
No doubt about that Dear Friend. The title of the book you mentioned just gave the opening to Point to the *Real Miracle*, who is the sentient form that walks on the face of the Earth.
Speaking of books, any comments on "Affirmations Of Light" ?
Subject: Re: Attachment.
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 02:20:39 GMT
Greetings Gary, you wrote: -> Conditioned thinking does tell me that I am (of) attached to the 'things' of this world .... you are quite correct! However, I am letting go of such conditioning.
*Deep Bow* Our conditioned thinking is the Cause of our attachments and the Cause of our Suffering. No more conditioned notions -- no more attachments -- no more Causes -- no more Suffering. It all seems to follow the old *domino effect* {8->
-> BEing as I am IN this world ... I know the floor is there to meet my feet when I swing them out of bed in the mornings. I do not have to "assume", be "attached", nor "believe" it (the floor) is there. It simply IS!
And if by some Cosmic change of plans the floor is not there, given that our bed is just floating there like Judy's in the Wizard of Oz, then we will deal with that if that IS the Present Moment. No ?
-> "A COURSE IN MIRACLES" explains this much better than I!
Wonderful Friend, your Life IS "A Course In Miracles". Now THAT, our Life, is the *Book Of Books*. No ?
Subject:
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:45:35 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
E.J. wrote:
Wonderful Friend, your Life IS "A Course In Miracles". Now THAT, our Life, is the *Book Of Books*. No ?
Indeed . . . Life is the best teller of stories of experience for the learning. Yet . . . until one understands what IS LIVING LIFE, the printed word can (sometimes - for some) help towards that understanding . . . no? :)) Never mind the dorittos, pass the Frog legs . . . yummy!
(((Love)))
Subject: Re: Update
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:10:40 GMT
Greetings Tink, you wrote: ->This thing about "attaching' to an outcome and the idea that we must avoid attachment to an outcome...I gotta ask a question here.
"We must avoid attachment to an outcome" ? First, the past is but a memory and not Real this Present Moment as the future is not yet so it too is not Real this Present Moment for only the very instant anew Present Moment is Real. One can not be attached when Understanding IS the ever anew Present Moment, so it is the past and the future that must not be attached to for neither the past or future are Real. Secondly, if the "outcome" is What-IS at Present then the seeming "outcome" is only What-IS at Present and not some seeming outcome. For what happened to generate what is happening at Present no longer has any bearing on the Present for it is not Real (it is the past).
->Don't we all attach to an outcome everyday?
Only while Sleeping, because then we dwell on the future (which is not Real).
-> Like when you get up in the morning and swing yourself out of bed, aren't you attaching to the idea that there is a FLOOR to put your feet on?
Whether the floor will be there or not is at question "when you get up in the morning and swing yourself out of bed" ? If so, call Orkin, you may have a termite problem {8-> Via Direct Experience when we get into bed the night before, we can be reasonably sure, if we get up at all, that the floor has not moved relative to the bed and so is no doubt where it was "when you get up in the morning and swing yourself out of bed". That is not attachment to the floor or our ability to set foot on the floor, but rather a certain Understanding of the phenomenal world of form. For you see, if we wonder about the floor being there we also must wonder what is supporting the bed and if there is a house and footing supporting the floor and whether the planet Earth is still supporting the house and whether the Cosmos is still sustaining planet Earth. I hope you see the fallacy in such seeming attachments of seeming outcomes.
->You know...simple things like that?
As said, "simple things like that" are not attachments but rather an Understanding of manifested form.
-> I never agreed with this 'no attachment' idea in the first place (just my opinion here).
Neither does anyone who places value or importance on *things*. That is why we still have wars and conflicts and strife and greed and disproportionate resources. When any*thing* is more important and/or holds more value than Awakening from such Delusions, then clinging to those *things* are most common. All *things* are quite useful and needed in a fast pace existence, but they are not worth Sleeping over.
->We all assume things all day from the most mundane to the most sacred to SOME degree I would think. Hmmmmm...
"Assume" ? Your example about the floor, for example, is not an assumption but rather something we have found out to be so via Direct Experience. An assumption is nothing more than a belief, which indeed does establish attachments. May I offer not to confuse the frog or the jump for the frog jumping. Observe the jump of a legless frog and you will Understand what I mean. Not everything is what it seems to be.
Subject: Re: Update/Wombat
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:14:22 +0200
Hiyuh Tinkdink:)
zzzzzzzzzzz ;-)))) the tiny file I had me hubby make separately for me, you lot have turned into a prolific bunch of writers LOL and I get a lot of e-mails a day, so if Lightworkers gets sorted into a separate file, that saves me having to pick 'em up and drag 'em somewhere else, otherwise my incoming looks like a jumble sale. Um, before you misunderstand perhaps, I get allsorts, like English liquorish <g>, I'm a big enough mess without the diverse groups turning me into an even more chaotic creature:) Kindest regards,
Subject: Re: a postkard from ethiopia
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:20:33 +0200
I really must meet you one day E.J. Boy oh boy, sometimes you knock me socks off ! Leaving it all in tact below. Keep them coming Volker!
Subject: Re: Attachment.
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 04:15:09 GMT
Greetings Community,
It has been queried: ->There is a reference to sword of truth in your ->offerings. My querry is to show or carry sword of ->truth agaist whom? Against ourselves? Will it not ->heart us. Whether the word sword does not gives a ->feeling of violence? Whether such epitaphs are not a ->misnomer on spiritual journey. Or a scalpel is a must ->for an operation to remove malady that has penetrted ->deep within us? Whether fear is necessary to ->motivate us to proceed on the path of sprituality.
It was Jesus, it is said, who coined the phrase: "I come not to bring peace, but a Sword". This refers to a Sword Of Truth. The Sword IS Truth, as it cuts through deeply rooted/seated illusions and all conditioned delusions. It is this Sword that IS Truth that we use to Slay the Slayer of the Real, our conditioned notions that Veil our Awakening. Truth is the only weapon against our defilements the Grand Trickster. Such a weapon as Truth is referred to as a Sword because engaged in Battle with the Grand Trickster we are Warriors in the War to Save ourself. In the Bhagavad Gita Arjuna is depicted as a Soldier in Combat for this same reason, as he is a Warrior doing Battle with the Grand Trickster (conditioned notions) with the aid of Krishna his Sword (Truth). WE are our own Grand Trickster, so it is WE who we do battle with. Truth is our only tool against our conditioned modus operandi. Such a Sword (Truth) is not "shown" but must be with us always to protect ourself from the onslaught of conditionings we endure each and every Moment. Indeed as this Sword that IS Truth will cut very deep, it will inflict much Pain in having to sever the attachments to our conditionings. It will seem most "violent" to us because this Sword will cut away our very sense of value in this or that and importance of things and deprive us of dearly beloved notions, as cancerous as they may be. Though the word *Sword* is most figurative, most symbolic, Truth must be most actual. It is not "fear" that is actually our motivation for continuing on the Path, but rather *Fearlessness* to persistently persevere in the arduous and Painful Battle with the awesome power of the Grand Trickster with a mere Sword. It is the Sword of Excalibar, and WE are the only one who can pull it from the Rock.
Too, the Sword Of Truth is a double edged Sword. That is, in using Truth (Sword) to cut away our defiling conditioned notions and being Victorious in such we tend to become most arrogant and so claim this Sword (Truth) as our own. Yet *our truth* is only a contrivance fashioned from Truth and so is no longer Truth. So *our truth* must also be cut away with the Sword that IS Truth. For Truth can not be possessed or held or gained or owned or even found or given. Truth IS simply AS it IS.
I would only add, not to think in terms of *words* that have some conditioned meaning attached to them, such as sword for example, but rather where those words Point to. For the finger Pointing to the heavens can show us the Wonders of the Cosmos, yet when we hold that same finger to close to the eye we no longer can See anything but the finger.
Subject: Re: Afirmations Of Light
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 23:08:04 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
-------Original Message-------
Speaking of books, any comments on "Affirmations Of Light" ?
__________________
It is a book for all who are Awakening. An excellent concomitant to all that is being discussed in this forum. Well bound, beautifully printed, (although the font could be a littler larger) ~ it is a gift to be treasured, for the Pearls of Wisdom that go to make its content.
Since most of my time is spent at the computer, I have my copy sitting on my desk to which I refer often. The passage(s) I read at random, helps to keep me focused and centered in the moment. The words help to pull me back when I am drawn away by the distractions of the daily (necessary) routines ~ gentle reminders!
Subject: Have a great week-end.
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 14:14:56 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Background: Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses sex advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned in any circumstance. The following is an Open Letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet: _____________
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding the Laws of Moses. I have learned a great deal from your radio show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that - Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific Bible laws and how to follow them. a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? She's 18 and starting college. Will the slave buyer be required by law to continue to pay for her education? c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you >> clarify? ....Why can't I own Canadians? e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obliged to kill him myself, or should this be a neighborhood improvement project ? f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of the Lord if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Would contact lenses help ? h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? i) I knowfrom Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - (Lev.24:10-16) . Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that the Torah is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.
Subject: Re: Afirmations Of Light
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 02:51:50 GMT
Greetings Community,
An excerpt from "Affirmations Of Light": "This is the psychic awareness that opens new doors for you. You can judge each experience individually, within it's own framework of meaning. Rigidity of interpretation is no longer a part of your thought pattern. You will become more conscious of the totality of reality as it actually exists rather than viewing it in preconceived categories. This method of accepting and evaluating will actually make you more realistic and successful in dealing with new situations. It enables you to evaluate with greater clarity because you are no longer a victim of past experience or past evaluations. You are able to see the uniqueness of each thing, and at the same time, you will understand how each thing is part of the totality, the wholeness of life."
"As a man thinketh, so is he". When we Empty our mind of conditioned past events and future desires we Dwell IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. *Sounds* quite limiting to dwell ONLY IN/AS the Moment, but paradoxically EVERYTHING is there. Hence, Eternal and Infinite. So, by letting go of something (conditioned notions) we actually gain a lot more. A certain Emptying to become Full.
Any other takes on the quoted passage ?
Subject: Re:
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:29:41 +0200
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:08 AM Subject: Re:
> Speaking of books, any comments on "Affirmations Of Light" ?
Dear E.J. Just one, my husband and I have just purchased a hardcover copy, it will be really nice to receive an autographed copy to boot:) Kindest regards, Wombat:) tsk tsk.... another comment, truth can not be owned, so we can not call it our own LOL LOL... I always said in Dutch ** " dat is mijn waarheid " when trying to explain something to someone else and also trying to leave a lot of room for another's thoughts :-))) ... I'm gonna have to rethink that one now ;-) ** "but that's my truth ( = how * I * see it) "
Subject: Re:
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:36:16 GMT
Greetings Wombat, you wrote: ->Just one, my husband and I have just purchased a hardcover copy, it will be ->really nice to receive an autographed copy to boot:)
Yes, a fine volume.
->tsk tsk.... another comment, truth can not be owned, so we can not call it ->our own LOL LOL... ->I always said in Dutch ** " dat is mijn waarheid " when trying to explain ->something to someone else and also trying to leave a lot of room for ->another's thoughts :-))) ... I'm gonna have to rethink that one now ;-) ->** "but that's my truth ( = how * I * see it) "
Living your life according to Truth does not constitute possession of Truth. Though you *say* "my truth" it is not your's to own so it is not *actually* meant as such. It is habitual thinking coming out in our language. It is the habitual thinking that keeps us chained to the very things we say and the conditioned notion of possessing *things* that keep us chained to habit, so we should say what we mean and mean what we say. We must know what we know and know that we know it, and know what we do not know and know that we do not know it, and be able to know the difference. That is, simply say that it is Truth and Know that it is for everyone and not just you.
Subject: Re:
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:32:56 +0200
----- Original Message ----- From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> To: "Let There Be Light -- Always In All Ways" <MissionOfLight-l@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 6:36 PM Subject: Re: > Living your life according to Truth does not constitute possession of > Truth. Though you *say* "my truth" it is not your's to own so it is not > *actually* meant as such. It is habitual thinking coming out in our > language. It is the habitual thinking that keeps us chained to the very > things we say and the conditioned notion of possessing *things* that keep > us chained to habit, so we should say what we mean and mean what we say. > We must know what we know and know that we know it, and know what we do not > know and know that we do not know it, and be able to know the difference. > That is, simply say that it is Truth and Know that it is for everyone and > not just you.
Dear E.J. :-))) It would be easier for word framing purposes, if instead I said this is "my truth" I just simply said, "this is how I see it" - actually I don't *own* anything :) when I don't know something, I simply say, " I don't know " - I am aware of my shortcomings and have grown to accept I have them. * Know(ing)* is an important word. Love Wombat:)
Subject: Bodhisattva
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 06:53:18 -0700
We not only have to deal with our own conditioned notions, and since we do not live in a vacuum we have to deal with the various influences of our environment.
S: A lesson in how to relate to other people sometimes would be a great help. We do our best to let go our conditioned notions only to find we have to deal with others conditioned notions. In conversations it becomes easier to recognize what stems from conditioning and what others recognize as truth. It's so tempting to say " wake up and smell the coffee" but one knows the other would take that as saying they are wrong and be offended. I don't know about others, but I find myself biting my tongue from a lack of right words or just can't be bothered to drawn into a conversation because you just know it wouldn't go anywhere from a lack of being understood. It's not a judgement towards the other but a knowing that words would be lost..
For most of the time we can not simply smile and roll our eyes and continue on our way.
S: No, we can't. Some situations actually call for conversation. Have you ever just stood back, listened to others conversations and realize that each one is actually just having a conversation to hear themselves speak and not at all listening to the other.
But first, understand that another has no power to let you or not let you do anything, it is entirely in YOUR focus. YOU and YOU alone have the power to be distracted or not. We can not blame another for distracting us, we must take the responsibility to do something about it ourselves.
S:This is when we need to recognize when to speak and when to listen. A polite nod or uh uh would suffice. Others really don't care what you have to say, they just want to blab at you about themselves.
Indeed, the amount of Moments experienced in a single day is staggering. That is, staggering IF we try to experience them all at once by observing them from one of these Moments that has passed. When we observe each Moment all by itself as though it were the entirety of eternity, it is but a single Moment to experience and respond to accordingly and skillfully.
S: It seems that it takes skill to learn when to keep your mouth closed and when to ask the right questions to draw another out. Never offer an opinion only examples learned by experience, and to let others know there are choices they can make. So many make choices based in fear or choices based from emotion.
As is said, "discretion is the greater part of valor". As we would not want others to *preach* to us, likewise we should give others that same courtesy. Only when the door is opened to us should we venture through that door, otherwise it is always best to let What-IS be What-IS.
S: Don't think you know whats right for others, as they may start thinking they know whats right for us.
The Wonders of the Nature, the manifested realm, that we ARE is indeed a most captivating experience. A pleasure, I might add, that does not have to be *desired* or *craved*.
S: It is our inner Nature to be, just as a tree or bird.
The Moment is the Moment, so when your attention is drawn from one experience to the next it is simply a shift of attention from one Moment to the next Moment. Realize this and you will always be IN/AS the Moment.
S: and not like me sometimes when I stand there with my mouth open and wonder what happened in the last moment? I was a participant in a phone conversation, as a listener it turned out, I witnessed a person go from a normal conversation to straight anger in about 10 minutes and I never had to say a word. I stood there on the other end of the phone looking stupid wondering what happened.
We must not be too hard on the Sleeping, and by that same token we should not be too hard on ourselves. Judge not another, as you would not judge yourself. Indeed the burden of Helping and Serving others in their Awakening is like a rock that we accept to carry, the cross we accept to bare.
S: As the song says, I've been told I 'm just a dreamer, dreaming things I couldn't have, but here I am, singing my song. It doesn't matter what others think or say about you, if you follow your inner guide, you can't go wrong. Staying within the moment, doing what must be done within that moment, there are no choices of right or wrong, nor are there any crosses to bear, what is just is.
For indeed, one's perception is colored by the preconceived glasses that one wears. May I offer that you would See far more clearly without the glasses (preconceived notions).
S: Life is funny. It never just rains, it pours. Help a couple of people and others bang on the door, all at the same time. It appears that my services are needed in ten places all at the same time and now it comes to choices. What do I do now...... Do I work for money helping out those who an extra hand, or do I continue helping those who need a hand and can't afford to pay? Or do I work for money and help others after the work day is over? Then what happens when I wish I could clone myself and do it all? The result of my painting contract that just finished is that others are now seeking out my services. Do I want to paint Mac Donalds,the land of the Golden Arches? Do I want to learn how to run the hopper for the blow in type of insulation? It seems more male contractors are accepting me in the what was once all male jobs. I do enjoy the interaction with others and getting to know more people, and yet, I also enjoy giving my help to those who are in need. Help...my cup is over flowing with choices......
Did not Jesus say that "many false prophets will come in my name to deceive you" ? The Grand Trickster works tirelessly and continuously to thwart your efforts to start Awakening. And will flood the visual cortex with so much drivel that you get tired of fending it off and take some of it to appease him.
S: As I told someone yesterday, guilt is no longer a part of my life and I will not be responsible for what others do. I made coffee at my daughters house, as she just is in the process of unpacking, the other person has quit drinking coffee and broke down and had one anyway and told me it was my fault for making it. I just said nice try though, A for effort. Saying no starts on any level, be it something small or something serious. It's all an opportunity to practise. No, is a complete sentance.......
He would like that. It would no doubt be easier if we had someone to blame for our ignorance. But alas, there is no one to blame that we are ignorant, rather we are to blame if we do noting about it. For no one Saves us but ourselves, no one can and no one may, others can Point to the Path, but we ourselves must Walk the Way. *WHACK*
S: I plead, not ignorance, but non committal to a judgement. All I can offer another is the knowledge of choices in the moment, thats all we can do. Knowledge is not learned but experienced....Get away and keep away from the "he said she said"
As we Walk along the Path we are beguiled by the Wonders of Awakening, and a certain self-confidence is built by our steady pace. Not being Mindful, we stumble in the many ruts that are always in our Way. "You idiot", we say to ourselves, "you did not see that conditioned notion right there under your nose ?"
S: Yup, guilty.
We push our face up from the ground and look around, and indeed other Journeymen on the Path look on. "You fool", we say to ourselves, "you are a failure in the eyes of others".
S: No, don't care what others think. But open to learning from experienced ones.
But if the onlookers are Truly on the Path, they will extend a Helping Hand to pick you up and dust you off. For they too have stumbled in that same rut as you did.
S: Those are the ones you can laugh with about mistakes.
Us average sentient humans have no birth as a Dalai Lama, we have to fight the battle that Arjuna had to fight to gain his Freedom, his Liberation, his Awakening.
S: I figured the Dalai Lama was whisked away from others who may instill conditioning to a life of protection until taught to be a Dalai Lama. And yet, is not monk-hood also a belief system full of ritual, full of do and not do?
Such Awakening beckons your attention and so urges you to Surrender to it. But alas, the Grand Trickster is always there to confuse you and muddy the water.
S: ah, just lean back, do what must be done, give up worrying and fretting,give up projecting,reflecting, and just stay in the moment... Let others ramble on if they may, like me, you just don't have to listen.
I would only add a *Rule of Thumb*: if it controls and manipulates one's thinking and/or behavior in any way shape or form -- it IS conditioning. Sometimes blatantly overt, yet most of the time quite subtle and subliminal. Money, greed, is only part of the reasons that one would condition another. There is also the power of misdirecting another to one's liking. The bottom line is: if it prevents one's Awakening, get rid of it.
S: This sounds like my ex spouse. If it prevents my awakening, get rid of it, I did thank you....... ha ....... We can love someone without being influenced by them, but it doesn't mean we need to throw them out. Just babbling as usual........
Happy days
Subject: Re:
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:29:47 GMT
Greetings Wombat, you wrote: ->:-))) It would be easier for word framing purposes, if instead I said this ->is "my truth" I just simply said, "this is how I see it" - actually I don't ->*own* anything :)
Do you not see the ownership when you say "this is how *I* see it" ? Regardless of what word you use, if YOU have anything to do with it YOU are taking possession of it whether you *see* it that way or not. For this ownership is what you project by using any word referring to YOU.
->when I don't know something, I simply say, " I don't know " - I am aware of ->my shortcomings and have grown to accept I have them. * Know(ing)* is an ->important word.
*Deep Bow* But is not *as you see it* as much not Known ? A belief (as you see it) in not Known either because it has not been Directly Experienced. To Know (as in to Realize) is to Directly Experience that which is hitherto unRealized. This Knowledge (as in Self-Knowledge) is the basis of "know thyself", a Direct Realization. Then there is the conditioned knowledge that many refer to as the known. The conditioned known (the contents of the mind) is the known that we must let go of in our Awakening. Sleeping, we do not think there is a difference. Awakening, we Know there is a major difference. Sleeping, all is known yet nothing is Known. Awakening, nothing is known yet All IS Known.
Subject: the moment, the carney guy & the pony
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:44:46 -0700
more times than not i am asleep in my waking; many, many more times, tragikally enough, but every now & zen i hear the Alarm or the Alarm hears me - not quite sure yet which it Is - though i do know that at certain times i am hijacked by the Moment...
don't know why - the dervish hat? the 'just do it logo' on my platform runners? - IT just happens!!!
& when it happens i am kompletely absent from my 'self'... i am Not & being a Not i am no longer taught by mere letters & words but by the very Truth itself...
& i learn then what IT IS & what IT IS NOT becuz at that time i am one with the Truth & know IT by the knowledge of my Self...
does this make sense?
are there methods of inducing this state?
or will i always be at the mercy of the carnyguy, hoping that he will stop the ride when my pony is in front of me...
the carny guy, by the way, has a package of Marlboros rolled up in the sleeve of his black tee shirt & he smirks at me whenever he sees me running around the carousel towards 'my horse'...
should i tap the man lightly with my hammer & see whether he makes a hollow or a full sound...
or just jump on the pony that's in front of me tho my favourite it the red one - ariadne's thread she is called...
any advice wud be muchly appreciated...
gerhardt auf der mauer
Subject: Re: the moment, the carney guy & the pony
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 00:59:21 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->more times than not i am asleep in my waking; ->many, many more times, tragikally enough, ->but every now & zen i hear the Alarm ->or the Alarm hears me - ->not quite sure yet which it Is - ->though i do know that at certain times ->i am hijacked by the Moment... -> ->don't know why - the dervish hat? ->the 'just it logo' on my platform shoes? ->- IT just happens!!! -> ->& when it happens ->i am kompletely absent from my 'self'... ->i am Not & being a Not ->i am no longer taught by mere letters ->& words but by the very Truth itself... -> ->& i learn then what IT IS & what IT IS NOT ->becuz at that time i am one with the Truth ->& know IT by the knowledge of my Self... -> ->does this make sense?
*Deep Bow*, no *Full Prostrate* It IS sense Dear Friend, and it is up to YOU to Realize it as such.
->are there methods of inducing this state?
Indirectly, yes. Indirectly in that the more conditioned notions that you let go of the more continuous and the more frequent the ever anew Moment. When there are no more conditioned notions to let go, there is only the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. There can BE only One.
->or will i always be at the mercy of the carnyguy, ->hoping that he will stop the ride ->when my pony is in front of me...
There is no "or". When you let go of the conditioned notions there is no "carny guy", when you cling to conditioned notions there is always the "carny guy". So you are at the mercy of that which you cling to. When you have no conditioned notions to cling to you are at the mercy of nothing, as when you have conditioned notions to cling to you are at the mercy of the conditioned notions -- the carny guy -- the Grand Trickster.
->the carny guy, by the way, has a package ->of Marlboros rolled up in the sleeve of his black ->tee shirt & he smirks at me whenever he sees me ->running around the carousel towards 'my horse'...
The "carny guy" is not alone in this {8->
->should i tap the man lightly with my hammer ->& see whether he makes a hollow sound or a full one...
No doubt you would hear a *thud* because he is full of the horse droppings.
->or just jump on the pony that's in front of me ->tho my favourite it the red one - ->ariadne's thread she is called...
To *follow the herd*, that is what you would do. "Ride Boldly Ride the Shade replied".
->any advice wud be muchly appreciated...
If there was advice to offer, it would gladly be offered Dear Friend. But alas, there is only Pointing to What-IS from here. And not What-IS as it is seen from here, but rather AS it IS.
Subject: Re: lost betwixt two sides of the same page
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 02:15:46 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->might i ask for a gram or two of laxity ->in response to this query... -> ->sertainly, ray, u are lax & straightforward ->enuff in all of ur replies... -> ->they are muchly appreciated, my friend, ->& cause such mirth, merriment & bouts of ->laughter so copious that a handkerchief ->is frequently needed to avoid short circuiting ->the keyboard...
You are laughed *with* from here Dear Friend, as laughter begets laughter.
->i am learning & absorbing much, ray ->& occaissionally katch glimpses of the uniHorn ->thru the konditioned blinds...
Well... it appears that progress is afoot.
->however, (if u haven't shat on me already) i believe, ->that in my own situation, approaching the quarrie ->from a more Apposite perspektive wud be more ->beneficial for my awakening than the whacks on the head...
Actually Dear Friend, it is well established that in any therapy for Sleep that the sudden *shock* of Reality to the modus operandi is more potent and more effective than many other *seeming* therapies. Besides, the good old fashioned *Whack* is more fun {8->
->rather than plunging my digits into the viscera of the Moment, ->i thought perhaps doing the same to my Sleep ->might be more fruitful... ie: dismantling what i already have ->instead of trying to grasp the elusive though everpresent ->Moment...
It seems that there is a misguidance. Chasing after the Moment is like chasing after the horse at the carousel, as the Moment can not be "plunged" into. The Moment is a resultant of a primary task and not the primary task. You are most correct, the primary task is to "dismantling what i already have" -- let go of the already harbored conditioned Illusions. As Freedom is nothing left to let go of, so too the Moment is nothing left to let go of. When there is nothing left to let go of you are Free IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment.
->becuz i am Sleep, wud it not be logikal to work with ->what i have rather than grasp at what, at most times, ->eludes me...
Not work *with* what you have but rather to let go of what you have. For that for which you Seek will always elude you because you will never look in the right place. When we Seek Freedom, when we Seek the Moment, we only find our projected conditioned notions. When we Seek our conditioned notions we Realize Freedom IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment.
->essentially, i should like to construkt the Moment ->from the deconstruktion of my pallet, throwing the straw ->to the cows & unto autumnal flowerbeds...
The Moment can not be constructed, for it's construction would be none other than our own conditioned contrivances. But you are correct again, in that the demolition of your conditioned construction the Moment will be established. The Key is that YOU have nothing to do with the establishing of the Moment, other than indirectly by demolishing the conditioned construction.
->i won't ask if this is possible - i feel the shadow of the stick ->even before u move ur hand - whack!!!
*Roaring Laughter* It does appear that you are getting closer to the right pew Dear Friend.
->kan ideas be received from the klear perception of Truth?
No ! Truth generates no "ideas". Truth simply IS AS it IS, and generates nothing but Awe and Wonder. IN/AS Truth perceived, there is nothing that is not Awesome and most Wondrous for no ideas are present IN/AS Truth.
->& if they kan, must not the reasoning intellekt klothe them ->in requisite form before they kan be fondled by human hands?
Well... they can not... because the reasoning intellect is present. When the reasoning intellect is present, ideas will also be present and Truth will not be present. Only IN/AS Silence we Hear, only IN/AS Void we See, only IN/AS Awakening we ARE. As soon as humanity handles anything it is defiled by his conditioned handling. For Truth is a stand-alone condition, in that it needs no handling from us.
->even tho by such fondling of the klear perception ->the inspired intellekt returns to a lower state ->& may not even remember that it once stood IN/AS ->the Truth... this is Forgetting with a kapital F...
You seem to be on the right track here, but the intellect can not ever have anything to do with Truth let alone stand IN/AS it. Whenever there is intellect there is not Truth. In clarification, intellect can be *truthful* though most times is not. Yet because it *can be truthful* does not meant that it IS Truth, and YOU have to Realize the difference.
->lost between two sides of the same page, ->para brahmam
YES, because you *think* there are two sides. It is when we re-establish the Two back to One do we Realize that we were only conditioned to *believe* that there ever was Two. For you see, there really never has been anything other than One -- we just *thought* there was Two. THERE is your Key Dear Friend -- go unlock the Door.
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 03:02:46 GMT
Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: -<snip> -<snip> -<snip> -<snip>-<snip> ->What do I do now......
Whatever needs to be done.
->Do I work for money helping out those who an extra hand, or do I continue ->helping those who need a hand and can't afford to pay?
Both.
->Or do I work for money and help others after the work day is over? Then ->what happens when I wish I could clone myself and do it all?
Clone yourself.
->Help...my cup is over flowing with choices......
Get a bigger cup.
-<snip> -<snip> -<snip>-<snip> -> I figured the Dalai Lama was whisked away from others who may instill ->conditioning to a life of protection until taught to be a Dalai Lama.
*Deep Bow*
->And ->yet, is not monk-hood also a belief system full of ritual, full of do and ->not do?
Any organizational undertaking is little more than a belief system, yet beyond the organization and beyond the belief system there can be Awakening. Jesus was not a Christian nor was Siddhartha a Buddhist, but rather individuals trying to get people to Wake-Up. And neither promoted getting help from an organization, but rather that the Path must be Walked by ourself. Other cases, such as Dogen, known as a Zen Buddhist, spoke in Zen and Buddhist terms because that is what he knew, yet would be the first to state that he was not a Zenist or a Buddhist but rather that "my eyes are horizontal and my nose is vertical".
->Happy days
I am aware of no days that are not {8->
Subject: remembering is forgetting everything but
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:17:23 -0700
If we do not see God when we look in the mirror, or if we do not see God when we look at a tree, or an animal, or our family, or the myriad Wonders of life itself, we will never see God".
man, ray, i may not be awake, but i gotta be almost there becuz i see god where ever i look; my eyes are always on the quiblah... even when they're closed...
an idiot of god, amour de cosmos
Subject: Re: remembering is forgetting everything but
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 05:51:46 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->man, ray, i may not be awake, but i gotta be almost there ->becuz i see god where ever i look; my eyes are always on the quiblah... ->even when they're closed...
BE Mindful Dear Friend, do not chase that Light, for that Light At The End Of The Tunnel might turn out to be a Train {8-|
º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º
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