The Light Mission Community-Forum Archives

Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.

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~ May - Page 3 ~

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Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE??? **THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT :)"

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:29:53 -0700

>Hi Pam, you wrote: >A month ago, I attempted suicide.

Shar: Hmmmm, that's quite a decision to make. I know it may be none of my business, and what I want to ask, is not about the details, but the emotions behind this type of choice. I had a friend that attempted at least 4 times, then she got her wish, in a way she probably never asked for. She got cancer, survived it, then she got something that left her paralyzed and in a wheelchair for that last five years of her life. She couldn't talk or feed herself, then her memory went as well. At last she died last year. Her first attempt was when she was 19 and continued this over a period of years. I have been depressed a couple of times in my life when I also entertained this thought but was afraid to try it when it came down to it. I never spoke about this thought to anyone as I was afraid they may find a way to prevent it, if I chose to do it. I thought about the different ways, and decided pills weren't right because they might pump my stomach and that would be an awful experience. As if, hey? Then guns scare the hell out of me and are far to messy, and I may miss anyway. I didn't want to drive my car off the road, as the thought of surviving wasn't pleasant if I would have broke my neck or back. So the list grew shorter and soon couldn't think of anyway that was feasible, so even as suicide person, I was a failure.

Subject: Re: {{{{{{Pam}}}}}}}

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 08:56:38 -0700

>Don't know who said what anymore, so am just replying to the words, not a >person. > > Whoever this woman is, one thing is for sure - SHE IS NOT GOD - SO SHE > SHOULD NOT JUDGE.

Shar: This is not also a judgement? We are not all apart of the one energy called God? We are all guilty of judgement at one time or another.

> > I emailed EJ about her post, and was so upset that I was never going to post > to this board again, she has absolutely no idea how she made me feel.

Then that must be discussed between her and you. I have experienced pain on occasion from others words, and through looking at the source of that pain, I have myself facing some truth about myself. I am not sure how she made you feel, but there was something that triggered a reaction or it would have slid by without so much of twitch.

> However, thanks to EJ's reply, I will continue to post - the majority of the > members on this board are absolutely awesome.

Is this not also a form of judgement? Don't hit me for asking :)

> > We are a very supportive group, and since I've been back posting, I've had > fun, support, I've cried, and arms have reached out to me. Except this one > person - she must really have a "reality" problem.

Hmm, can we say or even guess, when we haven't walked a mile in her shoes? Can we make this type of judgement call when we only have this one post to go by as well? Are we not all guilty or mirrors of each other?

>I do get the spirit of that statement so F >them if they can't take a joke as they say in California...HEE HEE again!!

I do believe that is universal. Then again, is that how we talk or is that how we walk? This is not directed at you, but as a statement in point. It's easy to say F them if they can't take a joke, but seriously, can we take what others say in the same way? If so, then we would not find it within ourselves to react to words, rather than respond.

>You hang in there and please still participate. I would hate to think that >this causes you to feel reserved and not able to say what's on your mind...k?

Of course, no one has the power to make another quit posting, if they do, it is us that gives them that power. Do we have the right to say that it's just certain people that don't or shouldn't have that right? When we write a post, our words are fair game to anyone on the list. What they say, we have no control over, how they speak, is also beyond our control, we are only responsible for our own words. If we don't want a reply or response, then by all means don't post. If we choose who can respond, then we are also laying a judgement of good and bad. Bad being that someone disagrees with us, good being we are in total agreement. Do we learn by always agreeing? Or do we learn through discussion until we reach an understanding? Everyone has a bad hair day, do we go bald forever just because of one day?

> Sorry this got so long...I was just IRKED when I read that other email from >her that I rambled on and on....oh well...just had to vent in my own way.

As we all do. There was something in the post that caused a chain reaction. Instead of us having a discussion to see where this point of stems from, the source, we choose not to and took it personally and replied with our own reactions.

I'm sorry if the words were painful to anyone and yet, the pain was bounced back to the poster as well. Where was our compassion in all this?

Thanks

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE??? **THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT:)"

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:09:56 -0500

Hi Shar!

Thank you for your "eye-opening" email - I agree with everything you said, except: << , so even as a suicide person, I was a failure>>>

Shar - YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE!!!!! You have helped and supported me more than you will ever know! I feel like I've know you all my life, yet I've never met you! (strange!). I'll always be here for you - remember that!

Subject: Re: {{{{{{Pam}}}}}}}

From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:00:58 -0700

I didn't see any compassion in the original posting Shar...so tell me...where WAS the compassion in that? There was none....

Also...being a person who deals with emotionally challenged individuals, it IS highly irresponsible to pin something on someone who MAY be on the edge in some way psychologically. THAT was my point. People do not seem to realize how powerful words can be to someone they have never met...there are so many sensitive people today that could take something the wrong way and have it really affect them because they are already edgy...ya know?

My feelings were for Pam especially after hearing that she had gone through what she went through. I really don't care if my thoughts seemed like judgement calls or not. I was merely expressing how I felt for her. I did not intellectualize or mentalize the whole scenario as it was plain to ME what was initially said so ....again....if they can't stand the heat...well...there's the door. If they can stand in the heat...great. Free will. I compassionately acknowledge the seemingly NON compassionate reactions that were sparked by the NON compassionate original email.

Nuff said...

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE???

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:34:19 -0700

>Good Morning,

It has been said: >[you] > > Each time you 'give in' you are saying a whole lot of things to those > children none of which should ever be said by a responsible adult to a > child in their care. >[me] >By the way, sometimes 'giving in' is a good thing for a kid. Yes kids test >but sometimes they do the 'I want to break the rules and see just how much >you love me' thing.

Shar: My two bits here, There are different types of giving in. Saying nothing is giving in and sending a silent message that a certain behavior is okay and acceptable. It can be saying"okay, it's alright if you walk all over me, use me and abuse me. I won't say anything because I am unworthy of being treated better than this.

Then there is the type of giving in where one lectures to the other about their behavior, telling them it is unacceptable, speaking with idle threats about next time, and when next time comes, the threats are never carried out. The message being, you make me angry, and as long as I tell you and try to blackmail you into different behavior then whatever you do, still hurts me, but it's okay to hurt me, I am a victim, so continue your behavior and I will still love you.

There is the giving in when two people agree to compromise(?) on a situation. I will give permission and IF you behave responsibly, I will agree to loosen the boundaries. Who's the judge?

When my kids were growing up, I set down some limits for them to follow. They had a curfew, had to complete homework daily and also do something that they liked for fun. That was their job, mine was to make things possible for them to do their job. If they didn't do their job, I took privileges away. The main guidance I gave was for them to never deliberately hurt themselves or others. To be aware of their words and actions and to treat others in a way they would like to be treated. Knowing I had no control, I didn't know what else to teach them. The one time I did interfere with an iron fist, was one of them played hookey a few times from school. She ended up hanging around with a few kids that were questionable in their behavior, questionable to me anyway. So when the school phoned me for a meeting to say they were suspending her for hookey, I refused to allow that. I made them take her everyday and they put her in the vice principals office to do her class work, for a week. I always questioned the wiseness of suspensions anyway. I also made her teachers move her seating arrangement away from these kids. I also picked her up everyday from school so she didn't have the freedom to escape after classes. I explained to her that if she didn't want to do her job as planned, then she was welcome to find other living arrangements. She got tired of being in jail, so to speak, and decided she wasn't cut out for the possibility of getting in trouble, or being homeless. She got back in with the friends she had before these ones and one day a few years later actually thanked me for stepping in. I know I wasn't a perfect parent, I passed on some conditioning but managed to stop a few from being passed on. I knew what my fears and limitations were brought on by those fears, so made sure I never instilled them onto them. I just didn't know at the time, how to get rid of them for myself. It was only through experiencing a dark night that many things became clear. After counselling and some wise guidance I found myself phoning the girls and apologizing for allot of my mistakes. Bringing these into the open they told me they weren't blind or stupid so already was aware of the why's. I guess that was when I realized they were allot wiser than I.

It's not easy being a parent. We aren't practised until we have them for ourselves. We bring them up through our conditioning, trying to improve on our parents mistakes, making a few of our own new ones. Sometimes we can't relate to their problems as the world evolves faster than we did. We never had to deal with drugs as teens, so I was lost in that area. Other than trying to tell them it was called DOPE for a reason. Growing up in a small town was so much different than raising kids as the town grew around me. Life changed with the introduction of TV. All of a sudden there was a whole new world presented to us. Teen life for my kids was totally different and foreign to me. So in my ignorance I had to do the best I could without restricting them the opportunity to experience their life in the world around them.

I have to admit I lied to them about one thing. I hated the sight of hickeys, and the idea of someone sucking on anyones neck long enough to give one. So I lied to them and told them that being a bruise, and that close to the head, chances were a clot could become free and go to the brain causing brain damage. To this day, they don't let me forget that one.

On that note, I'll stop the babble because I long ago forgot the point I was making. I do know I get carried away at times just writing what pops through the mind. Thanks for listening.

Love to all

Subject: Re: patients And - I would like to add to this post!

From: Sehlene <sehlene@dragonswing.net>

Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 21:22:51 -0700

Dear Pamela,

You are very right, I did not know your situation. I sincerely apologize and ask that you forgive my many assumptions.

It sounds as if you have a very lovely family indeed. I assumed that you were talking about a teen age daughter when you spoke of your car keys and I leaped into the pit!

My family consists of a daughter and a son, both now married and doing very well in life. We were a small family of three from the time my daughter was nine and my son four. After a long career as a business Manager in a high pressure business, my body is now disabled and on oxygen. But this is not about me.

Again, I apologize and regret any discomfort I caused.

Love

Subject: Hi Shar - I have no problem explaining - I hope it helps others!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:57 -0500

Hi Shar!

Wow! Making me remember, huh :)

First of all, I have to go back into "history". I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO READ THE FOLLOWING!!!!!

www.pam-coupe.com

CLICK ON: Genesis - A New Beginning

CLICK ON: "My Story"

That will explain the 7 years of hell I went through with my son, who was molested by pedophiles, and then the trials, FBI investigations, etc.

When my son was 15, he also attempted suicide and it was I who found in - in time, thank God! The paramedics worked on him over 45 minutes before transporting him to the hospital. At the hospital they immediately started pumping his stomach, but was afraid of Cardiac Arrest so, they transported him via ambulance to Hartford Hospital which has an outstanding team in this area.

He was in a coma for over 16 hours.

Reading "My Story" will help you to understand the "sequents" of events here and "God's way of helping me."

On a Monday night, out of the blue, I was told by my husband that he filed for divorce (after 24+ years); I remember walking downstairs and back into my bedroom, not believing this. However, the next afternoon, (Tuesday); I was served. Quick, huh??

I went absolutely ballistic! I screams, cried and cried. The "emotional pain" in my stomach was unbelievable. All I wanted was for the pain to go away. My daughter was in the house. I went to my "computer room" and started swolling Klonopin. I just wanted the pain to go away. The rest of this night is kind of "hazy." My daughter called my son, and he flew over. (She told me this later) I remember him shaking me. I remember saying I needed this pain to go away, I could not stand it. It hurt so bad. "Next flash" I was in the hospital and this damn, aggravating doctor kept waking me up, talking to me :). Next thing I knew was that I woke up in the "physic ward" - Now, that's another horror story. I was so mad, like I have never been before. Chris, my son was my "rock". Bless his heart, (again this is all hazy and was told to me), he stayed at the hospital all night, then went home, showered and went into work, and then right back to the hospital. It was over 48 hours before he got any sleep. He was with me the whole way. When he came to the hospital, I remember clinging to him, crying, and telling him not to go. The first couple of days in that damn place were horrible.

It's ironic that I found my son, and he actually found me (Wendy didn't know at that time that I had taken the pills, Chris figured it out and got me to the hospital).

No, I didn't have a NDE, but I did about 22 years ago, and again, I ask you to read that on my website. I gave my entire account of my NDE as well as my communication with my dad after he died. It was awesome: Go to:

www.pam-coupe.com

CLICK ON "MY NDE/OBE EXPERIENCES" and from there you will read mine as well as others.

Please email and let me know what you think after reading this.

Our very own "Moderator - E.J." does my website for me - and he's excellent at it!

Hope this helps, let me know if you need further info!

Love ya Char!

Subject: {{{{{{Pam}}}}}}}

From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 13:49:32 EDT

In a message dated 5/20/01 8:39:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, star980@snet.net writes:

<< You are so right. I raised my kids the best way I knew how under the circumstances I was in. The woman doesn't know me, nor my children.

[me] No kidding! The other thing that gets me in this kind of judgemental call on her part is this: We have lots of people who turn out, for whatever reason, a certain 'way' <such as extreme cases of serial killers, alcoholics, sociopaths...whatever> and they HAD cool parents who TRIED over and over to get them help but because of the path that these 'kids' chose, the BIOLOGY involved <such as chemical and biological disorders we have no control of>, other abuse that the parent may have been unaware of <like OPEN YOUR MOUTH kids and tell us when something is wrong> or other unknown reasons <like this IS their path that they chose>...they turn out completely destructive, dysfunctional <whatever that is>....are 'not mainstream sheep' etc. I have seen parents over and over go through this including my mom with my brother, my nephew NOT raised by my brother, ME, my uncle's daughter from another relationship etc. Things simply HAPPEN and to make a blanket judgement call does no one any good. The best that I can say is that I turned out functional, responsible, my heart/loving self still intact despite what happened to me and the anger that was involved....my brother was hell on wheels! He put my poor mom through so much, threatened her...violent....in juvenile hall several times (try painting nazi swastika's on your German neighbor's garage door on Halloween and see where that gets you...I found that ironic since we're half Hispanic...duh...like why keep the racism going here?) yadda yadda. She could NOT get control over him and there was no social service type help in the 60's such as there is today and what good do they REALLY do since social workers have very little control in situations like this. If someone makes up their mind to DO something and are determined to be destructive then it's awfully hard to stop those tendencies.

I remember my mom saying that my brother was born angry and never stopped. Here she was with all kinds of medical problems that I think affected her mental health <depression>...5' tall and like 100 pounds wet and he was almost 6'...200 pounds or more in her face threatening her through his teenage years. Like what's she going to do? Get a flyswatter and hit him with it? <grin> He was extremely jealous of my relationship with her and continually accused her of favoritism no matter how much she reached out to him and tried to mother him. He was abusive PERIOD. The good part of all this is that he DID straighten his life out, owns a business in San Diego although he has not had very good luck with his first two kids due to divorce and the mother moving away when they were little. He now has a 5 year old and has been married like for 17 years and just adopted another little girl. I think a lot of his problem is that he got diabetes at 13 (so did his son) and it REALLY messed with his mind and his chemical balance within himself somehow. Sometimes he's not fully coherent and when he doesn't feel good...he gets irrational. I do the same thing and I'm not a diabetic but hypoglycemic. There are so many factors involved in 'behavior' that you just can't point to one thing.

THEN his son was raped for a year while under the care of his mother at 6 yrs old by the daycare provider's son. We did NOT find out till he was 16 and in trouble <what comes around goes around to my brother as he was living with him at the time...weird, huh?>, ran away back to his mom and left all his diaries on DISC at my brother's house. Talk about explosions! My brother was devastated that this happened, his son did not tell anyone despite child abuse education (we all were very pro abuse education since I came from such a horrible environment with my stepdad and my brother wasn't with us then) and then here my nephew tells a VERY Hispanic family (Italian blood too) that he is gay and runs back to his mom. All I could do being the TOLERANT person that I am is to laugh, look up to heaven <symbolically speaking> and say "well well well...man plans....God laughs" what a lesson for the entire family!! He's the last remaining male heir on my dad's side as my brother can't have anymore children due to his diabetes and my dad is Mr. wealthy Macho man running an empire and his last heir with his name...is gay. Gawd....LOLOL. Way to go to my nephew for being who he is. He just graduated from the U of A ...Salutatorian (2nd in class) last year (2000). At one point (since I was the first blacksheep of the family) he asked me when he was 18 and I met up with him again "How do you be yourself when the family pressure is SO high and they want you to be one way and you are another way? How do you get them off your back?" and I told him I don't worry about what they think...I just do what I want anyway. Living 500 miles away helps but even when I was living with them...I would just nod my head while they did their little power trip lectures and then go off and do my thing ANYWAY (neener neener) ...who cares? You MUST be true to thyself!! Little did I know that he had just been asked to head the gay group (big organization) at his college uhhhhhhhh and that would like be PUBLIC. My dad FLIPPED as he is well known in that town and connected everywhere AND is an Alumni person from that university. He tried to pressure my nephew into NOT heading that organization and my nephew replied with "I YAM WHAT I YAM" HEE HEE.

We have a very very complicated family including my mom's blue blood British DAR women in her family . You would not believe. So I do know that the SOUL has a path and it may not SEEM like it's something 'good' for society but there IS a reason for that 'thrust' or urge that each one of us is playing out in the grand scheme of things. I am as much of a lesson TO my family as they are to me just like my nephew made a stand to be who he is (despite the abuse that MAY have triggered this) and is a lesson to the males in my family just like they are to him. Can you imagine what courage it takes to be born into such a group and stand up for what you believe in for your whole life? Know what I mean? I YAM my brother's keeper! Very intense people produce very intense children but they may be polar opposites such as in my family.

[you] A month ago, I attempted suicide. Guess what! It was my son that saved me. He stayed with me for almost 48 hours straight. He never left my side except to go into work, and then come right to the hospital. He has been my "rock."

[me] {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Pam}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I am so glad for you that your son was there. I don't know you but I hope that if you should ever feel that sad again, that you would reach out <not that you didn't as I don't know you> before thinking about that ever ever again. Life is a gift even if it's shitty at times, ya know? Be grateful for this space and time for we will never pass this way again, hun. May not seem like something to be grateful for BUT there are people that care, people that you may meet around the corner that you would have regretted NOT meeting up with...experiences that could be wonderful...think of the possibilities in the Now. Sorry for going on and on here but just want to hug you verbally somehow {{{Pam}}}.

[you] I have wonderful kids, and I'm very proud of them. I posted in a previous email what they are doing today. I was only "bitching" because it FELT GOOD! Some of us were!

[me] NOTHING wrong with bitching. Bitch away. If anyone comes out of InternetLand, I have my flyswatter ready...HAHA.

[you] Whoever this woman is, one thing is for sure - SHE IS NOT GOD - SO SHE SHOULD NOT JUDGE. I emailed EJ about her post, and was so upset that I was never going to post to this board again, she has absolutely no idea how she made me feel. However, thanks to EJ's reply, I will continue to post - the majority of the members on this board are absolutely awesome. We are a very supportive group, and since I've been back posting, I've had fun, support, I've cried, and arms have reached out to me. Except this one person - she must really have a "reality" problem.

[me] Well they say that if someone 'reacts' it's because you struck a chord IN them that is threatening in some way...you put a mirror up to them in some way. "What another thinks of you is none of your business for you represent a lesson to them". Although I don't entirely agree with the none of my business part <obviously...LOL>...I do get the spirit of that statement so F them if they can't take a joke as they say in California...HEE HEE again!! You hang in there and please still participate. I would hate to think that this causes you to feel reserved and not able to say what's on your mind...k? Sorry this got so long...I was just IRKED when I read that other email from her that I rambled on and on....oh well...just had to vent in my own way.

Love to you too...

General Tink

Subject: suicide

From: o.dodge@att.net

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 19:25:49 +0000

Anyone who has ever seriously comtemplated suicide -- especially anyone with an interest in "Awakening" -- should definitely check out the life story of BuckMinster Fuller -- a truly amazing and "enlightened" individual.

Here's a little "snip" from a website dedicated to the man -- who incidentally died around 1982.

.........................

"In 1927, at the age of 32, Buckminster Fuller stood on the shores of Lake Michigan, prepared to throw himself into the freezing waters. His first child had died. He was bankrupt, discredited and jobless, and he had a wife and new-born daughter. On the verge of suicide, it suddenly struck him that his life belonged, not to himself, but to the universe. He chose at that moment to embark on what he called �an experiment to discover what the little, penniless, unknown individual might be able to do effectively on behalf of all humanity.� Over the next fifty-four years, he proved, time and again, that his most controversial ideas were practical and workable." ....................

I had the pleasure of meeting Bucky around 1978 at a conference/seminar regarding world hunger, where he spoke about his life. In a nutshell, he said -- that night -- the night on the bridge -- he decided HIS LIFE -- the "thing" he and everybody called "Bucky" was over -- to him, it was as if that "self" had plunged into the water off the bridge. He then decided to spend the rest of his life focusing NOT on his OWN problems -- but on the problems of humanity.

Bucky, among other things, was the inventor of the geodesic dome -- considered the world's strongest man- made structure. During the course of his remarkable "experiment" he called "life", he:

�was awarded 25 U.S.patents

�authored 28 books

�received 47 honorary doctorates in the arts, science, engineering and the humanities

�received dozens of major architectural and design awards including, among many others, the Gold Medal of the American Institute of Architects and the Gold Medal of the Royal Institute of British Architects

�created work which found itself into the permanent collections of museums around the world

�circled the globe 57 times, reaching millions through his public lectures and interviews.

there's tons of websites devoted to this man and his accomplishments, I suggest www.bfi.org for a beginning point for anyone interested.

love and grace..........oren

Subject: Re: suicide

From: o.dodge@att.net

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:23:31 +0000

Greetings Pam,

you wrote...

"Does he have a website that someone keeps up, or is this his website? At any rate, I'm going to search the net for any and all info about this person. He is truly remarkable."

Yes -- quite the remarkable individual. Using the "Google" search engine -- I got over 28,000 "hits" in reference to Buckminster Fuller -- so you might be gone a while!<G> He really was a kind of "techno" version of Mother Teresa. I believe there's a bio available on him at Amazon.com -- but not sure.

love and grace.........oren

PS -- I think the important thing to grasp here is -- once he "let go" of his "self" -- all his past regrets and future worries -- all those 'conditionings' -- went with "him". This left Bucky free to just "BE" Bucky -- and the world benefited accordingly.

Subject: Re: I have a "crazy" kind of question for you all!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:39:36 -0500

Hi!

Personally, I think she is a "fraud" out for money (not a judgement, just my "suspiciions). I can't understand for the life of me why she hasn't yet been sued for "harassment" or spamming!

I've heard a lot of people get the same thing. I just got another email from her. The next one I get, I will reply to NOT contact me again, or she WILL be turned in for "spam."

Thanks for the input!

Subject: Re: suicide

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:33:08 -0500

Hi Oren!

Thank you very much for this email! I will go onto the site that you recommend. This man was truly remarkable! Does he have a website that someone keeps up, or is this his website. At any rate, I'm going to search the net for any and all info about this person. He is truly remarkable.

Thank you for your suggestion, I truly appreciate it, and will follow up!

Subject: The urge to suicide and it's ramification.

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:46:08 -0600

In the second year of my rehabilitation after the accident, I went through an incredible, frightening experience. I am sure that those reading this who have had a similar experience can well relate. After a 32 years relationship, finding myself all alone, destitute and disabled, unable to provide for myself, without friends and very little (understanding) support from family, I entered into a relationship of the worst kind; control, manipulation, blame. When it broke up after 15 months by a sudden departure, I went completely to pieces. At the time I was under the care of several specialists, taking a large variety of medications for various ailments, and to counteract side effects. It was an ever vicious circle that led nowhere. This 'abandonment' (once again) was the last straw that broke the camel's back. The determination I had when I was (the three months) in hospital, and shortly after discharge was waning. At the time it seemed pointless and futile to go on. Caught in the spiral of psychological and physiological dis-ease, I could see no way out except to end it all by crashing my car (while driving) against a solid wall at full speed. How I was even able to drive, (now thinking back) is still a mystery, considering that most of the time I was in cloud 9 with ingesting all the med.. The angels must have been with me, for always did the thought of my NDE and other people (effected) surface at the strongest point of my urges. Finally I received the insight to call my family physician and within an hour of my calling was admitted to the psychiatric ward. After ten days (with all privileges and freedom in the first five days stripped away from me), I came out with a firm decision to never allow myself to be incarcerated in like manner again. With fervent determination, I entered the Stress and Pain Management Clinic and gave my all to my rehabilitation. I did the full three months in resident program, with a month 'outside' in between the three months and was integrated back into the mainstream of society with new coping skills. My web site <http://www.members.home.net/gelr/index.htm> currently under reconstruction, is my way of sharing my knowledge (acquired at the cost of $10,000.00 +) with those less (economically) fortunate than I. I did return to the clinic to do an internship and trained in other programs as well, however due to reoccurring visits to the hospital for surgery, was never able to take the exams for certification. My trainers assured me that I was qualified to volunteer my services, and that the piece of paper in a guilded frame is not required to help another since I was not in it for the money. I pray that the Retreat center when it manifest itself, will give me the platform I need to help others in a more practical manner. I think specially of those with special needs (and support) but not the financial ability to acquire same. In the meanwhile I do what I can on the Internet.

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE??? **THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT:)"

From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:30:01 EDT

In a message dated 5/21/01 6:24:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Sharlene@Light-Mission.org writes:

<< For some strange reason, I would like to have the power to enter people's minds to see what they experience in the dying process. NDE's to me are fascinating, probably because I have never had one. For some they say it is a huge awakening and others seem to continue along without change. >>

Mine was neither. While on the table during a c-section during which I had a reaction to the anesthesia, I was gone for a couple of minutes. I had an argument with what I perceived to be God behind ze clouds booming his voice at me...LOL. I got sent back anyway. God won the argument. Oh well!

Subject: Re: I have a "crazy" kind of question for you all!

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:04:41 -0700

Hi Pam, you wrote:

>Hi All: > >Has anyone here been getting emails, letters, and phone messages >(recordings" from a psychic called: Miss Cleo? > >Just wondered what youall think of this, and of her?

Never heard of her. Not much of that here in the Pacific Northwest. I guess they think we are a bunch of hillbillies or something, which isn't far from the truth. LOL.

Subject: Re: I have a "crazy" kind of question for you all!

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:33:17 -0700

Hi Pam. you wrote: >I've heard a lot of people get the same thing. I just got another email >from her. The next one I get, I will reply to NOT contact me again, or she >WILL be turned in for "spam."

What is recommended from the anti spam sites, is NOT to reply a it indicates a working email address. This, then gets sent on to others in those lists for sale. Just put a filter on it and direct it straight into the garbage can. Every day is loaded with stuff, my filters list is huge already and I keep adding to it. I tried writing yahoo, hotmail, etc and the reply is the same, there is no such valid address. So there is nothing they can do either.

Subject: Re: HI Everyone - this is something to hopefully "lighten your day!"

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:14:00 -0700

Great poem Pam,

I see a little girl when I am involved in doing anything that is creative. She used to visit allot when I did props the ice carnivals. I think she was there to send me ideas on cardboard art. :) Haven't seen her at all lately as time for doing creative things seems to be out of the picture right now. Plus a room to do it in. Probably by the time I get back to any of it, the paints will be dried out, the crayons dull, and the wax well melted, then you never know, the charcoal pencils may be powered from being moved so often. One could say I am rather rusty at it anyway.

Things come and go and now I wish to learn skills and talents, when something appeals, whenever that may be. Oh ya, I got some wood carving tools with some Xmas money sent to me, and also some stone carving stuff. But I don't have the foggiest on where to begin. So it sits while I go off painting the town beautiful.

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE??? **THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT:)"

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:38:18 -0700

>Shar - YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE!!!!! You have helped and supported me more than >you will ever know! I feel like I've know you all my life, yet I've never >met you! (strange!). I'll always be here for you - remember that!

Hi Pam, yes, I was a failure at it, thank God for small mercies, I am still here fighting the systems and battling the battle of conditioning. I wasn't suppose to go that way or any other way,yet, and that was years ago. Well, a few anyway. I really wonder how many people give it thought, and wonder how many would admit it if they did. I think the thing that scared me most was wondering if it was true that things had to be repeated until learned, and to come back to the same old same old was not my idea of fun. You know, bad karma. I think about death quite a bit these days, not just my own but for others as well. For some strange reason, I would like to have the power to enter people's minds to see what they experience in the dying process. NDE's to me are fascinating, probably because I have never had one. For some they say it is a huge awakening and others seem to continue along without change. I did read your page awhile ago, and will return to it later today, if my connection is quicker tonight. Then we shall chat again.

Subject: Re: The urge to suicide and it's ramification.

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 01:20:11 GMT

Greetings Gary, you wrote: ->I pray that the Retreat center when it manifest itself, will give me the ->platform I need to help others in a more practical manner. I think ->specially of those with special needs (and support) but not the ->financial ability to acquire same.

Indeed the Retreat Center will be involved with much Healing, in every aspect of our lives, and I am sure you will be a great asset in that Cause. The Key is "when it manifests", which requites much involvement by many. There are many talents and skills readily available "when it manifests", but there is a lot to do before it can manifest. And from the deluded nonsense rampant throughout internet discussion groups and in everyday life, in the social sector as well as the political sector, the Retreat Center being manifested becomes more urgent day by day. But you also said "when it manifest itself". It will NOT "manifest ITSELF", so we must not wait until "it manifest itself" but rather put forth every effort to manifest OURSELF. The Retreat Center that we are endeavoring to manifest is vitally needed NOW, but it must take shape soon or Kali Yuga will make it that much harder.

Thank you for bring this up Dear Friend. The call must go forth. We need more than curiosity seekers, we need to gather those who are Ready to *Do What Must Be Done*, whatever it takes, to get this Retreat Center rolling. Actually the Retreat Center will turn out to be more than a "Mission Of Light Retreat Center Of Healing and Meditation and Education" but also a refuge for all those Truly Awakening. Though the URL has been posted here before, in case anyone here would like to know more about the Retreat Center and perhaps get involved, it is at:

http://www.Mission-Of-Light-Retreat-Center.org

Subject: just a couple of poems...

From: o.dodge@att.net

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 00:43:48 +0000

A poem honoring "the moment"...

A moment. That's all I ask, A moment. To see your face, To touch your hand, For a moment. How much happiness, How much love In a moment? All that one can bear, All that -- in a moment.

And a poem for EJ and the "Light Message Board"...

I had a dream once -- the substance of my life And to this fragile nothing you brought your bloody knife.

>From my quaint illusions you sought to set me free Til now, in glare of daylight, there is nothing left of me.

The nothing that you gave me I cannot bear to face; For now I stand alone, a stranger to my race.

Subject: Retreat Center~An appeal for help!

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:30:15 -0600

I stand corrected in my choice of phrasing for indeed the Retreat Center will not "manifest itself". Thank you E.J. for bringing this point to the fore. There has been little mentioned of this project in the main discussion list, and I am not sure if this is because there is a lack of interest, or that everyone is so busy in their lives, this project has been forgotten. As one of the two coordinators (Sharlene being the other) of the project I invite anyone and everyone to put on their 'thinking caps' for ideas on how this project can get off the ground. So far (as I know) there are only three active members on the "Start Up" committee ~ E.J., Shar and myself. Although not advertised, we have been doing some work in the background, if only in exchange of ideas (for the moment). For such a project, three people make up only a drop in the ocean. We need much more gray matter to be flowing and some more energy to be generated. Please consider what you have to offer.

Subject: Re: The urge to suicide and it's ramification.

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:56:01 -0500

Gary!

My God - you have been to hell and back! Thank you for sharing. I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that, but it makes me look at "me" and know that I'm not the only one in this world with problems! I will be going to check out your website, bookmark it, and keep coming back often to see how it is going. You are such a wonderful and spiritual person, as well as a good friend of mine (which I really feel).

I, also, would love to go to EJ retreat when it's finished. Even though I live in CT, hopefully, I will be able to go. I've never been on a retreat before. It seems like it would be so "soothing" and quiet.

Again, thank you for sharing - you are truly an Angel.

Subject: Re: The urge to suicide and it's ramification.

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 03:33:18 GMT

Greetings Renee, you wrote: ->TEE HEE...hey...that retreat is in YUCAIPA? I'm in Murrieta and work in ->Hemet...what a coinkeedink:o) Are you guys all down here near Yucaipa?

No, there is no Retreat Center in Yucaipa. It is just a P.O. Box mailing address. The Retreat Center is still in CyberSpace at present, until we can get the project really motivated and taking shape. It is highly unlikely, with the present and continuing and projected Earth Changes, that the Retreat Center will be on the west coast (or either of the coasts for that matter). It will have to be in a climate that is conducive to *most times* moderate conditions, for it will be a self-sustaining Community as well as serving the Healing and Meditation and Education needs of greater humanity. In this age we have Retreats and Centers for various purposes and self-sustained communities, but none that are actually both. The Mission Of Light Retreat Center will be both. The Retreat Center welcomes your energy and involvement. If you are up to the Task {8->

Subject: how is the whack dispensed

From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>

Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:00:39 -0700

bill,

why, how & when is the WHACK dispensed...

arbitrarily

or with kompassion...

i may be wrong, though each Moment has its own Presence, & yet, jack, my proboscis detekts a henhouse of conditional slash manipulative slash autonomic response here & no one is getting whacked...

without offense to pam, are we walking on eggs because someone sed the 'S' word...

who on this list has not attempted this or seriously konsidered it an Option...

even u, frank, sumwhere in your benign past, i'm sure u've had doubts about the validity of ur existence...

we all do, in the Sleeping state, while at the same time we're all the children (gurus) of the Moment & the Moment has no S in its Lexicon...

have u ever or do u ever sleep, mr light?

& who or what birthed ur kompassion for the other sods?

again, with respekt & compassion to pam - whose funeral are we at? our own?

from much of what i read here, jim

inkluding what i rite - i muchly see a Momentary lapse of BEING/IN/AS the MOMENTO...

but that's just me, trying to stay strait & true to my self

give us word, ray,

or kan i say that every day has it's own unfolding...

i am awake in my sleep.. kan i say that i sumtimes peep

at that which the awakened are holding, & i envy the phakt that they are molding a new reality...

of which i am not a part...

yours truly, dakota schweet from the kitchen of the royal hotel...

Subject: Re: how is the whack dispensed

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 07:03:25 GMT

Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->bill,

As in Duck Bill ?

->why, how & when is the WHACK dispensed...

As we Journey along the Path we seemingly come across a fork in the road. Which is odd since we are sure we cleaned up the dishes and utensils after our meal. WHACK, there is no fork, it was just the Grand Trickster making us *think* there was some choice in the matter. So, we drop that silly notion and simply do what must be done and continue on our Journey. Many such obstacles we find on our Journey On the Path, and each time we go to make the silly conditioned step, WHACK to get our Attention back on Course.

->arbitrarily

Indeed not, only when we pay Attention to the Grand Trickster's folly instead of the Journey/Path/Awakening. HEADS UP !

->or with kompassion...

Indeed always, for if those Awakening did not Care so much they would simply chuckle at our foolishness. But no, due to Great Compassion those Awakening are always in Service to humanity for that is what must be done.

->i may be wrong, though each Moment has its own Presence, ->& yet, jack, my proboscis detekts a henhouse of conditional slash ->manipulative slash autonomic response here & no one is getting whacked...

If it will make you feel better: WHACK. Fact is, though it is so that All is Present IN/AS the Moment, the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment IS all there IS. There is actually no space between Moments for there is actually but One, this very One right NOW. All else is but projects of a conditioned mind. We are indeed IN the world Dear Friend, though Awakening we can not be OF the world. Not Awakening yet, the phenomenal realm is what our seeming reality is OF. That would be like Whacking a chicken because it can not sing. Yet Awakening, the phenomenal realm is only eye candy and has nothing to do with Reality other than it is the realm of manifested form. So, when the eye candy starts titillating our fancy we need a Whack to bring us back to Reality. That is like Whacking a chicken because it starts to sing.

->without offense to pam, are we walking on eggs because someone sed the 'S' ->word...

Not sure what you mean by "'S' word", but I see no eggs around here.

->who on this list has not attempted this or seriously konsidered it an ->Option...

What ?

->even u, frank, sumwhere in your benign past, i'm sure u've had doubts ->about the validity of ur existence...

I would hope not, for it is quite obvious that there IS phenomenal existence. It is not a projection of your mind, for it would still be there if you did not project it. The problem is that we cling to that existence as Reality when all it is, is phenomenal existence and nothing more. We have to take it because it IS, but we can not take it seriously for it is fleeting and most impermanent.

->we all do, in the Sleeping state, while at the same time ->we're all the children (gurus) of the Moment ->& the Moment has no S in its Lexicon...

Sleeping we are Guru to no one but ourself. A conditioned Guru at that. Legends in our own mind. Sleeping we do not even Realize that there is a Moment let alone BE that Moment. Sleeping there is only past and future.

->have u ever or do u ever sleep, mr light?

Sleep ? I tried that one time..... I think. All I can be sure of is that each time I open my eyes this phenomenal realm is always there. Sleeping is relative to conditioned thinking and behavior, so perhaps I do not sleep. That is a guess because I am not sure.

->& who or what birthed ur kompassion for the other sods?

Sleep. Sleep is destroying humanity, so when one Hears the AlarmClock such universal predominant Sleep engenders Compassion.

->again, with respect & compassion to pam - ->whose funeral are we at? ->our own?

Pam has nothing to do with the Sleeping's Hell nor the Sleeping's funeral. Though you are correct, Sleeping we are on a collision course with our own destruction and so our own funeral. With 45+ messages today alone, this Community is far from a Wake.

->inkluding what i rite - i muchly see ->a Momentary lapse of BEING/IN/AS the MOMENTO...

Very well could be.

->but that's just me, trying to stay strait & true to my self

Which self ? The Awakening YOU or the Sleeping YOU ?

->or kan i say ->that every day ->has it's own unfolding...

Hopefully so.

->i am awake ->in my sleep.. ->kan i say ->that i sumtimes peep

WHACK. You can not be Awake in your Sleep. But a Whack now and then can give a "peep" at a Moment of Awakening.

->at that which the awakened ->are holding, & i envy the phakt ->that they are molding ->a new reality...

Sleeping we hold onto everything that is the phenomenal realm. Awakening we have let go of anything to hold. Awakening is nothing left to let go of, nothing to hold onto. Just doing what must be done BEing the True Nature we ARE.

->of which i am not a part...

Sleeping we are in all sorts of parts, holding onto every one of them. Awakening we ARE the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment Totality.

->give us word, ray,

Word. Something from Yogajyotii:

~Fate Too Late ~

Though few take up the Task Awakening is for any

But you have to let go of conditioned notions many,

The contents of the mind can know what is therein

Yet once Empty the mind is IN/AS a Stillness Within.

Though it has no substance it all does not disappear

Key is not Desiring the appearance or holding it dear,

You must clean out the clutter of a conditioned mind

So that Awakening Clarity of Vision is what you find.

After all is said and done there can not be any Two

As it is obvious that more than One can not be True,

The non-separateness of Awakening is NonDuality

Therefore only is the Dual nature in phenomenality.

Beyond the world of myriad form and beyond thought

There is Truth and Reality that is Realized not taught,

It is BEing IN/AS that Truth/Reality that we find Bliss

And not projecting conditioned thoughts as that or this.

Identify not with your mind it defiles your True Nature

Understanding the nature of attachment is departure,

Cling not or you will Suffer is the very Law of the Land

Just be very Still a Silence BE not what is held in hand.

The Trickster comes in many forms and many masks

As your very Guru might be doing a Trickster's tasks,

Do not be beguiled by what you think you are seeing

Wisdom is not in a belief but rather in it's very BEing.

Listen to those who know and know that they know

Teach who doesn't know and know they don't know,

Yet all those who do not know and do not know that

They do not know so you best run and grab your hat.

We see many Wise quotes supposed some indicator

That Wisdom is afoot and so we will surely get it later,

Yet Wisdom is not in the quote will not postpone Fate

Wisdom is IN/AS the Moment Awakening to it is Late.

2001 - Yogajyotii

Subject: Re:Renee

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 06:19:04 -0700

Hi Renee, you wrote: >Also...being a person who deals with emotionally challenged individuals, >it IS highly irresponsible to pin something on someone who MAY be on the >edge in some way psychologically. THAT was my point.

Shar: I know what you are saying here and basically I responded with that point in mind.

> People do not seem to realize how powerful words can be to someone they > have never met...there are so many sensitive people today that could take > something the wrong way and have it really affect them because they are > already edgy...ya know?

Words are powerful, I totally agree with that, They do present opportunity for reaction or response. Sensitivity based in emotion is not the same as sensitivity through awareness.

>My feelings were for Pam especially after hearing that she had gone >through what she went through.

I also have compassion for Pam in her personal struggle, it is based through similar experience not through emotion.

> I really don't care if my thoughts seemed like judgement calls or not.

I see. And you get paid for doing what? I believe you said something about working with emotionally challenged people who are sensitive to words. I am confused.

> I was merely expressing how I felt for her.

And this couldn't be expressed without judgement towards another who may be in a situation that requires the same sensitivity at the time of posting? Compassion is not something that we turn off and on at will or directed at one and not another. We either are compassionate or we are not. It is a state of being, not an emotional reaction.

> I did not intellectualize or mentalize the whole scenario as it was > plain to ME what was initially said so ....

Hmm, what was plain to you was indeed not as plain to me. I believe you saw an attack, I saw some valid points being made to everyone at large, I felt some anger in the words and wondered what experience brought that anger forth. I also saw some compassion for Pam, and someone reaching out saying " find your inner strength and set your boundaries". What we do today, has to be dealt with tomorrow. Not everyone speaks in gentle terms with flowery words, and yet the message being sent is being interpreted by the emotional body, which in turn reacts.

>again....if they can't stand the heat...well...there's the door. If they >can stand in the heat...great. Free will.

Compassion can turn up the heat without having to deal with the flames.

Subject: Re: Hello Everyone: ***URGENT!*** PLEASE EVERYONE READ!!

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:53:01 -0600

Thank you Pam for coming on board. What you have proposed is excellent and thank you for providing the URLs. I second a cyber conference if (E.J.) can make this possible through his own organization's facilities. Unfortunately I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to computers. I propose we make Pam Chair of the Fund Raising Committee . . . anyone to second?

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE??? **THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT:)" *HI CHAR!*

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:22:22 -0700

Hi Pam, you wrote:

>Hi Shar! > >An NDE for the most part, is awesome, and can be so hard to explain. You >cannot explain the vivid colors, or the "unconditional feelings; or the >peace! You can't even explain the disappointment or anger at being made to >come back. But at least, now you know - that when you die -you are only >going "home - to a place you have forgotten all about."

So you had an argument about returning, I can relate to that, not through an NDE but through meditation. I recall many times coming out of a meditative state in tears because I wanted to stay there. Now, the secret is, to get to the point when we can remain in that state in every moment, no matter what. Everything is so clear, information flows like laser beams, the peace is over whelming and one becomes love totally.

Maybe I don't need a NDE after all. Just more meditative states.

Subject: Re: EVERYONE! FOR A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR TIME, I NEED TO REALLY ASKFOR PRAYERS!

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:12:42 -0600

Indeed Pam, I shall be with you all the way. As for Chronic Pain, I too experience that as well as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromalagia. No fun . . . but you know what? When I focus on the "work" I'm doing I have to room for these dis-ease. In the moments, when they do "get the better of me" . . . I simply take a break from what I am doing and give them the tender loving attention they need. It works. I came off all (narcotic) medication in mid first month of thereapy. It wasn't easy, however the support I received did more than any of the meds. Soon with practice, one come to recognize the pain with acknowledgement, yet not have it interfere (too much) with more important and valuable experiences. A tough task . . . but do-able. That is why this Retreat Center is so important to me.

Subject: Re: EVERYONE! FOR A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR TIME, I NEED TO REALLY ASKFOR PRAYERS!

From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:54:50 -0700

I will light a candle for you tonight and pray for you Pam. All my best to you.

Subject: Re: I have a "crazy" kind of question for you all!

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:16:18 -0700

>Pam, >I just got 4 more in my email (its 10:21 A.M., Tuesday); and I wonder how >these people get away with "no address!"

It's easy when you can go anywhere and get those free ones under any name you choose. Then take it off. Check the headers on the email and see the return paths,sometimes this may give a clue of whom to contact.Sometimes not. Messages come with an option to view headers or not.

>This woman is definately >"harassment!"

Filters work well, you don't even know unless you look in trash.

> Of course, I get others also - sick stuff, and that >infuriates me.

Why? Not interested in enlarging your penis? LOL

> Messages will even pop up on my "ICQ" and I can't find a >"return address!"

I haven't been on ICQ for so long I should check it for messages once in awhile don't cha think?

>Strange! How can people email without a return address!

Some people can do anything with computers, not me, I am a klutz at computing. I deleted a pile of programs I never use cuz I don't know how. Find I am not missing anything. With only a quarter of 1 gig used I find a bit more speed. What I need is a good simple graphic program. Had Paint Shop Pro but with the upgrades it got far to complicated. I have one program that I absolutely enjoy, its called super goo, but its not quite for serious stuff, if it is I haven't learned how to use it either. LOL

Subject: Re: To: E.J.

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:44:07 -0500

Hi E.J.!

It's a "done deal!"

Thank you for the info (my mail was NOT set on "plain test." I set it to plain text.

Subject: Re: I have a "crazy" kind of question for you all!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:22:48 -0500

HI Shar!

I just got 4 more in my email (its 10:21 A.M., Tuesday); and I wonder how these people get away with "no address!" This woman is definately "harassment!" Of course, I get others also - sick stuff, and that infuriates me. Messages will even pop up on my "ICQ" and I can't find a "return address!"

Strange! How can people email without a return address!

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE??? **THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT:)" *HI CHAR!*

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:40:11 -0500

Hi Shar!

An NDE for the most part, is awesome, and can be so hard to explain. You cannot explain the vivid colors, or the "unconditional feelings; or the peace! You can't even explain the disappointment or anger at being made to come back. But at least, now you know - that when you die -you are only going "home - to a place you have forgotten all about."

Don't ever try suicide though! When I swollowed the pills, I didn't even realize what I was doing! I was so upset and I honestly think I went into shock. People who do commit suicide and don't come back are in big trouble! Why? Because they have to come back to this horrible life and do it all over again - until they get it right. I shiver now when I think of it. Go through this pain and hell again - I DON'T THINK SO :)

Love ya Shar!

Subject: Re: EVERYONE! FOR A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR TIME, I NEED TO REALLYASKFOR PRAYERS!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:14:58 -0500

Hi Gary:

I wish it were that "easy" for me (and I don't mean it was easy for you :).

If I don't take my meds, I cannot walk, it's as simple as that. In fact, I have to get out of bed 3 hours before even starting to get ready for work. I lay in bed, take my first set of meds, and then 2 hours later, my 2nd set - then I can start walking without my cane or help.

Subject: Re: just a couple of poems...

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 07:20:53 -0700

Great poems Oren.

Here's another,

On my first day at the Mission, My Guru gave to me, One Ray of Light, For my eyes to see.

On my second day at the Mission, My Guru gave to me, Two Food for Thoughts and one Ray of Light For my eyes to see.

On my third day at the Mission, My Guru gave to me, Three Affirmations Two Food for Thoughts and one Ray of Light For my eyes to see.

On my fourth day at the Mission, My Guru gave to me, Four different web pages Three Affirmations Two Foods for Thoughts and One Ray of Light For my eyes to see.

On my fifth day at the Mission, My Guru gave to me, Five whacks on the head, Four different web pages, Three Affirmations, Two Food for Thoughts and One Ray of Light For my eyes to see.

On my sixth day at the Mission, My Guru took away, Six silly notions, and gave me, Five whacks on the head, Four different web pages Three Affirmations, Two Food for Thoughts one Ray of Light For my eyes to see.

On my seventh day at the Mission, My Guru took away, Seven old belief systems, Six silly notions and gave me, Five whacks on the head, Four-teen different web pages, Three Affirmations, Two Food for Thoughts and One Ray of Light for my eyes to see.

On my eighth day at the Mission, My Guru took away, Eight tricky tricksters Seven old belief systems, Six silly notions and gave me Five whacks on the head, Four -hundred web pages Three Affirmations Two Food for Thoughts and One Ray of Light For my eyes to see.

On my ninth day at the Mission, My Guru gave to me, Nine legless jumping frogs, and took away, Eight tricky tricksters, Seven old belief systems Six silly notions Five whacks on the head, Four Thousand web pages, Three Affirmations, Two Food for Thoughts and One Ray of Light For my eyes to see.

On my tenth day at the Mission, My Guru disappeared, Leaving me with Nine legless jumping frogs, and took away, Eight tricky tricksters Seven old belief systems Six silly notions, and gave me Five whacks on the head, Four million web pages Three Affirmations Two Food for Thoughts and One Ray of Light for my eyes to see.

Well, I tried..........LOL

Subject: Re:Renee

From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:59:11 -0700

>>> Sharlene@Light-Mission.org 05/22/01 06:19AM >>> Hi Renee,

>My feelings were for Pam especially after hearing that she had gone >through what she went through.

I also have compassion for Pam in her personal struggle, it is based through similar experience not through emotion.

[me] I'm sure many of us can relate for many reasons, personal or otherwise.

[previous email]

> I really don't care if my thoughts seemed like judgement calls or not.

I see. And you get paid for doing what?

[me] Excuse me Shar...but this is a list dealing with people on a personal level. I am not getting paid here...right? What has my job got to do with my own personal feelings on this list? IMHO this is outrageous....and also a judgement call. Did I ask you what you did in your work or Pam or anyone else here in relationship to their feelings in any situation? What is the point of this question?

[you]

I believe you said something about working with emotionally challenged people who are sensitive to words. I am confused.

[me] Obviously:o) A personal reaction on a list such as what I felt was said and done (and confirmed by Pam in her email about her issues lately) is entirely different than serving my clients as a professional in my work being non-attached. How I react privately to a private situation that I am not personally involved in ....a 'theory' in an email...is different than day to day real crisis that someone may be going through. To me I can detach enough to say that one has nothing to do with the other. YOUR opinion may be different and your perspective may be 'whatever' but it is not my perspective.

[you]

And this couldn't be expressed without judgement towards another who may be in a situation that requires the same sensitivity at the time of posting?

[me] ooook...so it's ok for that person to have their OWN judgment calls initially but it's not ok if someone else has a 'reaction' on this list? Gee...might we not all be IN a similar situation that may require some 'sensitivity'? Hmmm?

[you] Compassion is not something that we turn off and on at will or directed at one and not another. We either are compassionate or we are not. It is a state of being, not an emotional reaction.

[me] I see that and I saw, IMHO, no compassion initially when the first shot was fired over the bow of the boat. You may not agree with where I am coming from and I don't have to agree with what initially transpired and that's ok. We come from different perspectives. My definition of compassion could be entirely different than yours as there is no one standard definition of 'compassion' it seems.

[you]

> I did not intellectualize or mentalize the whole scenario as it was > plain to ME what was initially said so ....

Hmm, what was plain to you was indeed not as plain to me.

[me] I agree.

[you] I believe you saw an attack, I saw some valid points being made to everyone at large, I felt some anger in the words and wondered what experience brought that anger forth.

[me] why? I was concerned with the 'result' of that anger towards someone who may not have needed to 'feel' that anger at that time.

[you] I also saw some compassion for Pam, and someone reaching out saying " find your inner strength and set your boundaries".

[me] In the initial email? I did not see that at all.

[you] What we do today, has to be dealt with tomorrow.

[me] I agree:o)

[you] Not everyone speaks in gentle terms with flowery words, and yet the message being sent is being interpreted by the emotional body, which in turn reacts.

[me] This, to me, is detaching from living in the NOW "oh gee...my emotional body is having a reaction..I'll just wait till this maniac gets finished with the machine gun, wipes out the entire neighborhood and then see what my 'reaction' is at that point. Perhaps my emotional body will be stable enough that I can handle it" geez. Just my perception just as you have your perception of life in the NOW.

[you]

>again....if they can't stand the heat...well...there's the door. If they >can stand in the heat...great. Free will.

Compassion can turn up the heat without having to deal with the flames.

[me] Again....your perception of compassion. Never thought there were 'flames' around actually. I salute your state of evolution at this time. I happen to disagree.

Wishing you joy in your journey...

Subject: EVERYONE! FOR A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR TIME, I NEED TO REALLY ASK FOR PRAYERS!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:39:33 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_028C_01C0E2CD.04531260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Everyone:

I know that we are involved in very serious things right now - the = Retreat Center (and by the way, COUNT ME IN!). =20

However, TOMORROW (WEDNESDAY) is going to be a "horror day" for me, if I = can even get through it. I need your prayers very badly (and if anyone = here is a true "reader/psychic" at all, PLEASE EMAIL ME PRIVATELY!!!!!

I have to go to court at 11:30 A.M. EST regarding my divorce. This is = just to get temporary alimony, etc until the divorce is final (possibly = in August). I'm home on "unpaid" medical leave right now, and need = alimony for my medications, bills, etc.

My 2nd request and just as important is this:

The "Retirement Board" meets tomorrow night to either approve or = disapprove my request for Medical Retirement. PLEASE PRAY THAT IT IS = APPROVED. In my condition (physically and emotionally) I just can't = work anymore. I am a "chronic pain patient" which means I have 3 = herniated disks, crushed disk in neck, degenerative disk disease, spinal = stenosis, Asthma, and more. After all the medical procedures (surgery, = spinal epidurals, facet injections, etc), nothing helped, so I have to = stay on very strong narcotic meds for pain relief the rest of my life.

Please pray for me - I really need them!

Love and light to you all!

Subject: Re: Retreat Center~An appeal for help! Some Ideas:

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:34:42 -0500

Hi all:

Yes, I've seen that discussion on the Retreat Center has gone way down. Here are some of my ideas:

MEMORIALS: Get the word out! A lot of people like to have their loved ones "memorialized!" I know I did for my dad. Before I met E.J., I paid $35 for a year to have it up on another site. I've yet to see a "free site" for memorials. So, this needs to be "publicized more!"

How about Grants? Have we tried those yet?

I'm sure everyone on this "list" can sell candy at work. I've already started that process! I found a fabulous website (I'll give it to you after I look it up); but they are going to send me a "free packet" of their chocolates, etc. They do go fast at work!!!!! All proceeds could go to the "Retreat Center!" I know it doesn't sound like much, but it could be! I'll let you know when I receive the information and sample kit from this company. Sounds good.

Wish I was out there, I would organize some things. I brought in thousands of dollars when I was in the Lions Club with my yearly country and western festivals.

There are many different ways to make money for something like this; but it takes a lot of work - and unfortunately, money! As far as the "candy" yes, you can get your money back as you sell them; just make sure all the proceeds go to the Retreat Center.

If any of you live in CA or near, have a "Fundraiser!" It's a lot of work, but a lot of fun!

E.J. - do you have a lot of friends where you live, and are they interested in the "Retreat Center?"

We can always have an "internet marathon!" I've seen it done for MS, and other diseases! That's something to look into.

The biggest thing I have to emphasize is: PUBLICIZE!!!! OVER AND OVER AGAIN. There are many many many newspapers that offer free classifieds!!!!!!! Also, radio, television, etc! I've done it. As I said, it's a lot of work! Been there, done that!

E.J.! You need to look into tax deductions, grants, etc. Perhaps someone on this list can help you on this???

Anyway, hope this helps!

Subject: Re: just a couple of poems...

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:20:30 -0500

Shar!

That is GREAT!!!! I think I will print it out for my special "book" .!

Subject: Re: how is the whack dispensed *I DIDN'T KNOW THIS!**

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:12:42 -0500

Oh! Oh!

And I thought a "whack" was an actual "slap" in the head!

Thank you for clarification!

Subject: Re: Hello Everyone: ***URGENT!*** PLEASE EVERYONE READ!!

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 02:07:47 GMT

Greetings Gary, you wrote: ->Thank you Pam for coming on board. What you have proposed is excellent ->and thank you for providing the URLs. I second a cyber conference if ->(E.J.) can make this possible through his own organization's facilities. ->Unfortunately I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to computers. I ->propose we make Pam Chair of the Fund Raising Committee . . . anyone to ->second?

I am still playing *catchup* from today, though I did glimpse Pam's suggestions and energy and I agree with you that Pam Chair of the Fund Raising Committee. BUT, I did set up a private list a yahoo to discussion the Retreat Center because though most here at the Community would no doubt help in some way, not all here want to get really involved with the Retreat Center operations or hear a lot of *shop talk* about the Retreat Center. It is a private list and all anyone has to do is let me know and I will subscribe them if they are serious about establishing the Retreat Center. If not, then we should not be intruding on a Community that was not set up specifically for the Retreat Center. So, what do you say that we conduct Retreat Center talks at the Retreat Center list and post periodic update to the Community ? And, this is an invitation to all the Community that whoever wants to get more involved let me know and I will subscribe you to the Retreat Center list.

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE??? **THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT:)" *HI CHAR!*

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 02:16:46 GMT

Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->Now, the secret is, to get to the point when we can remain in that state in ->every moment, no matter what. ->Everything is so clear, information flows like laser beams, the peace is ->over whelming and one becomes love totally.

*Deep Bow* Move over Siddhartha {8->

->Maybe I don't need a NDE after all. Just more meditative states.

Slight correction, not "meditative stateS" but rather *THE Meditative State of BEing* Continuously Eternally Infinitely Present.

Subject: OKAY - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! E.J. - PLEASE! STOP THIS!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:01:54 -0500

Okay all!

I thought this was over!!!! Please - LEAVE ME ALONE!!!! You do NOT know me, and most of the postings tonight have been about me - something I said a couple of days ago.

E.J. I'M ASKING YOU TO PLEASE STOP THIS!!! PLEASE!!!!

Yes, I got hurt - been there all my friggin life. Now leave me alone and knock it off!

Subject: Re: Renee #2

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:49:53 GMT

Greetings Renee, you wrote: ->And we must always avoid 'judgement' because why....because that's the popular way to disavow responsibility in our society at this time?

You have it backward Dear Friend. Judgement is the popular modus operandi. We are conditioned to judge, that is why we have war and conflict and misunderstanding.

->That's a good way to 'back out' from making a stand?

Not taking a stand is making a stand, though we are conditioned otherwise.

-> We must be as impersonal and cold as possible even if our brother stands being accused or persecuted for whatever reason and we know that he is falsely accused....we must NOT judge...ever.

There is such a thing as *nonviolent resistance*. It worked for Gandhi.

->Hmmm.....strange. Good way to disempower people though if you want them all to be sheep while the world is slowly poisoning itself to death and no one does anything about it because we 'mustn't judge'.

You copied and pasted this from The Grand Trickster's *Manual of Operations*.

-> Yeah right. But it's ok to passive/aggressively 'in the back door' attack someone who IS opinionated by trying to discredit them in front of their community (internet or otherwise) by forcing them into a defensive position.

Such a mixture. Such mixing of unlike pairs makes for delusions. The ID forcing it's was into dominance.

-> Very interesting tactics. Hat's off to ya babe.

No, no, no... it is hats on and masks off.

Subject: Hello All!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:06:46 -0500

I hope all of you had a great day. Even though it's early, I'm headed off to bed - been quite a stressful day today :)

However, I just wanted everyone to know that E.J.'s Chat Room works very well. I've been reading postings that some of you are having a hard time getting into the chat room.

It is not password protected. I went in there last night, and for a few minutes was very confused. However, all you have to do is go down to where you would normally type your message. For the first time, ALL you have to type in is your "user name" (that can be anything). I typed in: star980 and then hit the "enter key" Make sure not to type anything else in the first time. It will then log you on.

Hope this helps!

Love to youall!

Subject: Re: Hello Everyone: ***URGENT!*** PLEASE EVERYONE READ!!

From: marcheta henry <marcheta@cpty.net>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:29:04 -0700

Please include me on your Retreat list. MH

Subject: Opinions, judgments ... whatever!

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:31:08 -0600

I will probably get my head bitten off by sticking it in this (metaphorically) cage of lioness ... hehehe! The discussion and exchange is so interesting that I can't help but put my two cents worth in. I trust that you ladies won't mind. Renee ~ you have made some very good points. And here I suppose <I> am making a "judgment" and giving of my "opinion" n'cest pas? >From the "perspective" of a professional counselor the tack one has to take needs to be well considered and thought out with the information one receives i.e., the client's words, delivery, body language etc., etc. An "assessment" needs to be made based on the information the counselor receives (i.e., the purpose of the counseling). This is not as easy as it seems, given that the "client" in the initial stages is most time reluctant to open up. There has to be a trust relationship established, and in this "emotions", "reactions" and "responses" play a big part in the overall therapy. The "Pollyanna" type of approach can cause more ' damage ' than ' repair ' ~ if I may thus phrase it! In "spiritual psychology" counseling (my terminology), or wholistic/holistic therapy, a big dose of "compassion" which includes patience is added. That is why even counselors need counseling or an opportunity to "air out" their own frustrations. In doing my practicum, I sure found this out in a hurry :) E. J. has said this many times here . . . "Don't listen to me, try it out for yourself." And I would say that "advising" the perpetrator to " ... get professional help" can also be construed as "making a judgement call" ; although I doubt that. I read it as being "compassionate" for it was obvious by the behavior that this women had some problems. Very often anger can come out as "passive/agressive". I call this an "observation", others might determine that I am being "judgemental". The point (I suppose) made here is ~ (again), we can get so caught up in words that we really miss the point. Aya ... caramba!

Subject: Re: Opinions, judgments ... whatever!

From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:53:05 -0700

LOL....you have a very upfront yet 'human' way of reaching out and making good points rather than being SPOCK to the masses. I hear ya!

Live Long and Prosper Grasshopper....<grin>

The Opinionated Ewok

Subject: Re: Renee

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:36:09 GMT

Greetings Renee, you wrote: ->[me] ->Again...your idea of compassion and judgement is very different than my view of compassion and judgement. We are coming from very very different spots. The reason why the money issue came up is because YOU brought up the subject of what I do for a living (prejudicial IMHO) in a NON compassionate way. Again, we don't walk in each other's shoes so there is NO way you could know the entire world that I work in, the regulations I have to deal with (the LAW and what we are able to say and do with people) ...nada.

If I may, "your idea is different than my idea" is a cop-out. What does that get you ? The ability to have your own opinion ? And where do opinions get you ? They get you in a *defensive* mode. They do not get you *communication* or *understanding*. What do you have to defend ? Opinions ? Opinions are not worth defending, that is why there is war and conflict in the world. Why do you keep defending your so called right to your own opinion, whether it is foolishness or not ? Are you observing your reactions ? You might get to "know thyself" better if you do. You jumped to an erroneous conclusion and you are defending the conclusion. All Sharlene was saying is that you are you whether you are at work or at play or at a discussion, when you were seeming to indicate the contrary. Well, if you do wear all those Masks you perhaps are not sure who you really are. We all wear many hats and do many things, it is our attribute. But when we wear Mask we start deceiving ourself.

->[you] -> ->> IMHO this is outrageous....and also a judgement call.

Opinions are like butts, everyone has one, they dispense must crap, and the best use for them is to sit on them. Because all opinions do is lead to misunderstanding and conflict.

->Why do you feel it's outrageous and a judgement call? -> ->[me] -> -> Outrageous, IMHO. This is an attempt to put someone on the defensive. I choose not to participate in this slant as it is only destructive <grin>.

Opinions again.

->[you] -> ->> Did I ask you what you did in your work or Pam or anyone else here in ->> relationship to their feelings in any situation? What is the point of ->> this question? -> ->Shar: the point of the question is : Why would someone who knows how to ->speak to or help emotionally ill people, not carry that knowledge or skill ->over into their personal life? It doesn't matter if you get paid or not, ->don't people deserve the same respect or compassion?

That is where you missed the Point, Renee. But it seems that *reaction* to *defend* some *opinion* is fogging up your Sight.

->>[me] ->>Obviously:o) A personal reaction on a list such as what I felt was said ->>and done (and confirmed by Pam in her email about her issues lately) is ->>entirely different than serving my clients as a professional in my work ->>being non-attached.

That was the Point that Sharlene was trying to make, that we should BE who we ARE in any situation. The Masks only get in the way of us expressing and even experiencing our Compassion and Empathy. I hope your Inner anger and reactions are limited to other than your job. But why pen up such frustration and/or anger at the job wearing a Mask and vent everywhere else ?

->[me] ->Because this IS the Internet...

Oh. Do you see what you are saying ?

-> ->[you] ->> How I react privately to a private situation that I am not personally ->> involved in ....a 'theory' in an email...is different than day to day ->> real crisis that someone may be going through.

Such webs we weave.

->Now I am thoroughly confused. Please explain the difference.

BE who you ARE no matter where you are or when it is. Once we toss away all the Masks we wear we start being able to appreciate ourself. Perhaps even start knowing ourself. Perhaps start Realizing what folly there is in people wearing Masks. Perhaps even being able to answer the Ultimate question: "Who Am I ?"

Subject: Re: EVERYONE! FOR A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR TIME, I NEED TO REALLY ASK FOR PRAYERS!

From: marcheta henry <marcheta@cpty.net>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:11:12 -0700

My best thoughts, wishes, etc. are with you all the way and I shall be sending you some Reiki for your situation. Let there be Light in all ways. Marcheta

Subject: Re:Renee

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:35:47 -0700

>Renee: > >[previous email] > > I really don't care if my thoughts seemed like judgement calls or not. > >S:I see. And you get paid for doing what? > >[me] >Excuse me Shar...but this is a list dealing with people on a personal level.

Shar: What isn't personal? Do we change who we are when we walk out one door and walk into another?

> I am not getting paid here...right?

Does being compassionate or being non-judgmental come with a price tag or is a part of who we are?

>What has my job got to do with my own personal feelings on this list?

The job itself has nothing to do with it, who and what you are does. Again, does compassion come with a price tag?Is it something that gets turned off or on from 9 to 5?

> IMHO this is outrageous....and also a judgement call.

Why do you feel it's outrageous and a judgement call?

> Did I ask you what you did in your work or Pam or anyone else here in > relationship to their feelings in any situation? What is the point of > this question?

Shar: the point of the question is : Why would someone who knows how to speak to or help emotionally ill people, not carry that knowledge or skill over into their personal life? It doesn't matter if you get paid or not, don't people deserve the same respect or compassion? From what you are saying here is that your compassion comes with a price tag, or time clock.Correct me if I'm wrong. Is compassion not who we are at all times regardless of where we are? Do we walk the walk or talk the talk.

>[me] >Obviously:o) A personal reaction on a list such as what I felt was said >and done (and confirmed by Pam in her email about her issues lately) is >entirely different than serving my clients as a professional in my work >being non-attached.

Why?

> How I react privately to a private situation that I am not personally > involved in ....a 'theory' in an email...is different than day to day > real crisis that someone may be going through.

Now I am thoroughly confused. Please explain the difference.

>To me I can detach enough to say that one has nothing to do with the other.

Is that not living in duality?

> YOUR opinion may be different and your perspective may be 'whatever' but > it is not my perspective.

Truth is neither yours or mine, yet truth is truth. Perspectives are thoughts brought on by the intellect. Perspectives have nothing to do with compassion.

>[me] >ooook...so it's ok for that person to have their OWN judgment calls >initially but it's not ok if someone else has a 'reaction' on this list?

No one said anything different. To be honest I was taken by surprise that you would react and not respond. Why? Because of what you do in your professional life. Why? Because I would think that the compassion and non attachment on a profession level would also be a part of who you are on a personal level. Making it "just being who you are", and not someone who turns a switch off and on at will. Again being the difference between walking the walk and talking the talk.

> Gee...might we not all be IN a similar situation that may require some > 'sensitivity'? Hmmm?

Of course. Is this not why it is important not to judge another? This is not the difference between reaction through emotion and responding through awareness? Is this not why there is no difference between who we are on or off the job?

>[you] >Compassion is not something that we turn off and on at will or directed at >one and not another. We either are compassionate or we are not. It is a >state of being, not an emotional reaction. > >[me] >I see that and I saw, IMHO, no compassion initially when the first shot >was fired over the bow of the boat.

I understand that reaction, and yet through my own experience, if I experience a reaction to anothers words, I have learned not to instantly react but reread the posts a few times before responding to them.

>You may not agree with where I am coming from and I don't have to agree >with what initially transpired and that's ok.

Very few agree on anything when emotion is involved.

>We come from different perspectives. My definition of compassion could be >entirely different than yours as there is no one standard definition of >'compassion' it seems.

Compassion has no definition. Compassion just IS.

>Me > I believe you saw >an attack, I saw some valid points being made to everyone at large, I felt >some anger in the words and wondered what experience brought that anger >forth. > >you: >why? I was concerned with the 'result' of that anger towards someone who >may not have needed to 'feel' that anger at that time.

Sure. So it was okay to maybe cause another pain in that process?

>Me >I also saw some compassion for Pam, and someone reaching out saying >" find your inner strength and set your boundaries". > >you >In the initial email? I did not see that at all.

Could it be because you got emotionally involved and couldn't detach from that emotion?

>[you >This, to me, is detaching from living in the NOW "oh gee...my emotional >body is having a reaction..I'll just wait till this maniac gets finished >with the machine gun, wipes out the entire neighborhood and then see what >my 'reaction' is at that point.

My initial reaction would be fear, not sure about anyone else. I sure wouldn't yell at the guy holding the gun.

> Perhaps my emotional body will be stable enough that I can handle > it" geez.

That's why they have police mediators. Those calm guys who don't allow emotion to enter negotiations.

>Me Compassion can turn up the heat without having to deal with the flames. > >you: >Again....your perception of compassion. Never thought there were 'flames' >around actually.

Flames are judgements

> I salute your state of evolution at this time. I happen to disagree.

Then we shall agree to disagree.

>Wishing you joy in your journey...

Thank you , and peace to you on yours

Subject: Re: OKAY - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! E.J. - PLEASE! STOP THIS!

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:45:27 GMT

Greetings Pam, you wrote: ->I thought this was over!!!! Please - LEAVE ME ALONE!!!! You do NOT know ->me, and most of the postings tonight have been about me - something I said a ->couple of days ago. -> ->E.J. I'M ASKING YOU TO PLEASE STOP THIS!!! PLEASE!!!! -> ->Yes, I got hurt - been there all my friggin life. Now leave me alone and ->knock it off!

I would say that the original conflict is not the issue now. Though it did bring up far more arising notions that are more the Causes of our Suffering. It would seem that the Present discussion, though touching on the original matter, has nothing to do with you or the reaction that lead to yet other reactions. The original matter is in the past and is no longer Real, so the matter at hand is *reactions* and conditioned notions. The past is the past, so the discussion is not about the matter you were involved in but rather the very crux of why we Suffer and generate conflict and war and hate and misunderstanding the first place. Which IS at the very Heart of this Community. Yes, a place of Support and establishing one's True Warrior Self. But also a place to tare down the false self. To establish the Present and let go of the past. So in the Compassion and shoulder offered there is also the Whack to kick the *crutches* from our dependance so that we can depend our ourself rather than the conditioned notions we have been ingrained with all our life. A Physician is not only to bandaid our ills, but rather to root out the Causes of them. Indeed the Cure is many times more Painful than the ill so we avoid the Pain and accept the ill, but we miss the Dance. We miss the Relief that making it through the Pain allows us. So it would seem that the Present matter is not about you Dear Friend or the original matter, but rather the defilements that arose as a result of that original matter. By Truly Openly Honestly Observing those defilements as they arise we Learn and Grow and Unfold further our Awakening. So do not stay back there Wonderful Friend, Openly and Honestly Observe the arising defilements in the Present matter and See the Present matter in a more positive Light and not about some past matter {8->

Subject: Re: Hello Everyone: ***URGENT!*** PLEASE EVERYONE READ!!

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:52:41 GMT

Greetings Marcheta, you wrote: ->Please include me on your Retreat list. MH

Thank you, I will get you subscribed to the Retreat Center list straightaway.

Subject: Re: OKAY - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! E.J. - PLEASE! STOP THIS!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:05:04 -0500

E.J.

I belong to almost 60 email groups and this is the first group that i just "started" to open up to. Yes, I'll joke, laugh, and post back and forth and work my butt off on this wonderful Retreat Center, but I'm afraid the fear and distrust has cropped up again, and fiercely so. I absolutely Hate "self-pity" and I never ever felt sorry for myself. That happens to be one of my "buttons to push" and as far as me "playing the victim act" - not true (this was privately emailed to me). But as far as "opening up myself" to more ridicule, hurt, humiliation, and embarrassment - no never.

I thought this group was for just that. A compassionate group that give you (and you give them) support, a ear to listen to, suggestions, laughter, pain, happiness, etc - all of it.

Thanks for the explanation, my friend.

Subject: Re: OKAY -

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:28:02 -0600

Welcome back . . . (((((((((((((( Pam )))))))))))

Subject: Re: OKAY -

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 02:42:53 GMT

Greetings Pam, you wrote: ->I thought this group was for just that. A compassionate group that give you ->(and you give them) support, a ear to listen to, suggestions, laughter, ->pain, happiness, etc - all of it.

And so it IS, as has been Seen here. But it is also about Awakening, and Awakening is about Truly Openly Honestly Observing our conditioned programmed thinking and behavior so that we can do what ever needs to be done to root out those defiling aspect so that we can BE the True Nature of Compassion/Empathy/Understanding/Awareness we ARE. The sliver is painful and pulling it out is even more painful, yet the Relief after pulling it out is most Awesome.

You do not wear Masks Dear Friend, nor do you have many opinions per say or play foolish Games so wearing Masks and being opinionated is not a Game you are connected with. Which is the very reason that you are such the desirable Friend to any who would Recognize that about you. Yes this Community is about "A compassionate group that give you (and you give them) support, a ear to listen to, suggestions, laughter, pain, happiness, etc -" but it is also about getting people who wear Masts and are opinionated and play Games to be more like you are Naturally. And that is not a compliment but rather a statement of Fact, so do not get a big head about it {8-> And it is not to say that you do not have other notions to let go of, but Masks and Games are not of them. It is just to say, BE yourself as an example of the Open Honest Compassion/Empathy that you ARE and do not take things here *personally*. Look at What-IS AS it IS and for what it IS and what you can Learn from them and not something to take very seriously *against* you personally. Thought For Food {8->

Subject: Re: OKAY -

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:10:49 -0500

Very good! You know me more than I do LOL!

I've always been "an open book" - what you see is what you get. (I'm NOT bragging, just fact, as you said).

By being this way, I've left myself wide open for ridicule, and hurt. THAT'S what I need to work on, among many other things, as you well know.

But, I have hope now. I have a "teacher" who is teaching me day by day, and for that I am eternally grateful!

I sincerely with all my heart and soul - love you (and don't you get a big head - it's a fact!).

Subject: stuff....

From: "Kim Thornton" <kim.thornton@leoburnett.co.za>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:05:00 +0200

Question: Would anyone agree that dis-ease is an affliction our bodies undergo as warning signals about aspects of ourselves (on myriad levels)?

That physical pain is but the culmination of thought/other processes that could be looked at and directed more positively towards the universe and ourselves?

That dis-ease is a call for healing and languishing in it, ie giving it energy simply exacerbates it??

Subject: i seek it here, i seek it there, i seek the moment everywhere, but...

From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:57:07 -0700

kut from Re: lust betwixt two sides of the same koine:

(ray) As soon as humanity handles anything it is defiled by his conditioned handling...

what if i wash my hands really good? or wear surgikal gloves?

(ray) For Truth is a stand-alone condition, in that it needs no handling from us.

how then embrace the Wench, ray - or rather, how pique Her kuriosity so that She may be inklined to size me for a suit & perhaps embrace me later...

my vest, my shirt & my three kornered hat i have already removed in Her presence - alas, to no avail... must i now undo the kodpiece & peel my Self out of my tights... Out Here! in the Marketplace! in the Dirt where everyone Gossips & Talks!

i put the mask aside, the bells & the pointed shoes... is this still not naked enuff for Her... surely She is not waiting for the Rollex & the St Kristophers to come off...

when will She let me In???

when i strip my mind as well? when i unburden myself of notions & such? & if so, where will i store them, to whom bequeath should my enfeebled konstituion expire in the Voidness of Her embrace...

as u kan see, ray, i am sorely troubled & vexed, & to compound these mini-miseries, the new moon is rising & the camels getting restive & i'm down to my last smoke...

oh yeah, like the airhead that i am, i left my cell-fone the passanger seat of bishops pike's VW - means i kant fone my mom...

a finger will do ray, if u kan find it in urself to raise it...

troubled in the Bogustown Bazaar, the bastard son of philip souza, Florianne de Kontraire

Subject: A better page!

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 07:12:22 -0600

<http://members.home.net/glr/yingyang.htm>

PS: Kim ~ Of the ten in the group, I was the only one that ' graduated ' a 100% " success " . The others came out in various degrees of accomplished goal, according to the depth of their fear preventing them to open up fully to the therapy and counseling which were emotionally and physically very, very painful.

Subject: GOOD MORNING (OR LATE AFTERNOON) EVERYONE! GOOD NEWS!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:51:08 -0500

Hi "Family"

First of all, I want to thank all of you for your prayers! I was awake until the early morning hours which I why I just woke up! (3:30 p.m). I had a lot of worries on my mind, but because of your prayers and support, I wanted youall to be the FIRST to know!!!!

My Medical Retirement has been APPROVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just found out 10 minutes ago :)

I'm going to miss everyone at the PD, but I can go and visit whenever I want to. Its such a "relief" not to have to get up 3 hours early anymore just to lie there and take pain pills until I can get up and moving.

This is a good day for me. I will have plenty of time on my hands to work at the "Retreat Center" now.

Now, only one more PRAYER! I'm going to the hospital tonight at the "unGodly" hour of 12:00 midnight (I had no idea they made these kinds of appointments!) with my son and daughter-in-law, where they will induce her. She is going to give birth to a very beautiful baby girl - who, I know, is anxious to "meet the world!"

I'll be posting soon!

Love and thanks to all of you!

Subject: Re: stuff....

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 06:54:27 -0700

Good morning ,

This post from Kim brought on a rambling in my mind again this morning as well as the going to an AA meeting with my Brother last night. I sat and listened to the people speak about their dis-ease and how they hit their bottom. And yet, not once did they speak of the cause or what brought on their dis-ease in the first place. This could be that it was a beginners meeting and only a couple have been clean and sober for more than a year. This tells me that they are only starting the work by getting into the practise of dealing with life through being a non drinker. It was amazing to listen to a couple of them speak of their higher power and for the first time are finding that voice within. A few have returned to religion to support them in their sobriety. A couple of first nations men, have returned to their own spiritual paths. It really is amazing to listen to the growth in some of their stories. One woman spoke of recognizing and accepting the theory of there is no such thing as coincidence. She was amazed at how the universe provides to her just what she needs before she knew she needed it. A couple spoke about letting go, how they never realized what letting go really meant, until they experienced the release of the pain .They spoke of honesty, taking off the masks they wore, to hide from themselves. I have attended AA meetings before in other towns, and yet, at last nights meeting, I witnessed more spiritual growth than at any other meeting. Some of the members actually glowed from within.

I went with Darrell because he asked me to go with him, I figured this was the only way I could support him at this time. And guess what, he's drinking again this morning. He is being forced to attend these meetings as a part of a contract he signed to keep his job. He's not ready to quit, obviously. Maybe by going regularly he will see what quitting has done for others, how hard it was, and realize the benefits of doing the work to begin living clean and sober. They say God works in mysterious ways, and this could be the way. Time shall tell.

Anyway, time to get painting, the sun appears to be shining today.

Subject: Re: stuff....

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:51:34 GMT

Greetings Kim, you wrote: ->Question: ->Would anyone agree that dis-ease is an affliction our bodies undergo as warning signals about aspects of ourselves (on myriad levels)? -> ->That physical pain is but the culmination of thought/other processes that could be looked at and directed more positively towards the universe and ourselves? -> ->That dis-ease is a call for healing and languishing in it, ie giving it energy simply exacerbates it??

If I may add to Sharlene's and Gary's Wonderful information, indeed many if not most of our aches and pains are psychosomatic. And many of these aches and pains are heightened psychosomaticly. YET, when some of the parts of the physical form (our body) is irreparably damaged or is irreversibly degenerating, there will be physical pain that we have little control over to decrease or enhance. It just IS part of the physical condition. Some do use it for some self-pity and to engender pity from others, but that does not mean that the pain is not Real. Those are not worth dwelling on, though those Suffers of continuous physical pain tend to be remarkable people. Sure, they are given medication which will eliminate the pain for a while but the medication would at the same time eliminate there participation in life. So they take just enough medication to dull the pain, so they can be active members of life. But the dull irritation, like a tooth ache, an itch that can not be scratched, is a constant reminder that this physical pain will be their companion for life. In these cases anything psychosomatic would be the mental overcoming the constant reminder of their constant companion.

They can, in session, focus so strongly on something, be singlepointedly Mindful of something, that the pain is not noticed until their concentration is lessened. Re-focusing from the physical pain to something else is the basics of many of the therapy programs. And one that I always suggest. You see, when one's focus IS the Present Moment and IN/AS the task at hand there is no physical identification so no pain. Time and time again it has been shown that deep meditation during an operation not only reduces the amount of anaesthetics that is required but also reduces bleeding. It has also been shown that a person amputated his own hand with no bleeding at all.

So, you are correct that our mind does play a very vital role in our physical pain for we can mentally cause the pain and mentally tolerate the pain and mentally eliminate the pain. BUT to *think* that all physical pain is all in our head is erroneous. Rather, those continuous pain sufferers can mentally eliminate much if not all of the pain. Those who cause the pain mentally or enhance it mentally for self-pity reasons are not worthy of much attention for they would not mentally reduce their pain even if they could.

Did not mean to ramble on, but I did wanted to address the fact that as long as we are focussed in the phenomenal realm there is Real physical pain. And that by re-focussing IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment it has been proven to be Fact that we can reduce and even eliminate physical pain.

Subject: Hi Kim! RE: "Stuff"

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:33:10 -0500

Hi Kim!

I'm not sure what you are speaking about, but wanted to add my 2 cents worth :)

I've always had the belief that "God gave us the power to heal ourselves" only we just don't know how to "tap" into that power :).

I also firmly believe (AND I WANT TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR ON THIS - I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT PUSHING MY BELIEF SYSTEM ON ANYONE HERE :). that before we are born, we "decide" who our parents are, how we are going to die, and what lessons we are coming here to Earth to learn :). Yet, I feel that I am "double-stating" myself when I say, that I feel we have the power to heal ourselves :)

Life is such a "puzzle" but so neatly placed together - it will give all the "truths" :)

I hope this helps, and didn't confuse you more LOL.

Subject: Re: stuff....

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:31:45 -0600

E.J. wrote:

> Did not mean to ramble on, but I did wanted to address the fact that > as long as we are focussed in the phenomenal realm there is Real physical > pain. And that by re-focussing IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite > Present Moment it has been proven to be Fact that we can reduce and even > eliminate physical pain. >

Ramble on my Dear Friend . . . and you can always shove me in front of a crowd as a walking living example. One reason I spend so much time at this computer is because I have to focus on what I am doing, computer wise as well as when I am counseling. This is the alternative to swallowing narcotic (addictive) pain killers. One has to do what one has to do (in the moment) to avoid the trap of ~ " I used to be able to do . . . etc., etc., etc.,". That is in the past, this is NOW, HERE, AND IN THE MOMENT. Not even a minute from now . . . if you get my drift. Until one comes to terms with this, there is no "life" as one is not "living". One needs to accept change in order to obtain that (elusive) QUALITY OF LIFE.

God knows and I know . . . it ain't easy !!!!!!! There are days especially like now in the Spring, and in the Fall, when I just want to "Give up!" It is so much easier to just lie down and become an invalid like one use to see in the old movies with Bette Davies :) But the world is so large and beautiful out there, I don't want to see it just within the confines of my bedroom window frame, lying on my back propped up by umpteen pillows and cushions. Early on July 1st, right after mid-night, I and my partner shall be motoring to the Province of Quebec to attend Daniel's nephew's wedding on the 14th. My 69th birthday is on the 13th ..... and by golly are we going to "whoopee" .... hehehehe! Then it's off on the 16th morn to Ennis Montana where we have rented a cabin for a week (22 - 29 ), before making the last trek home to Edmonton, Alberta. Don't have the idea that we're rich . . . on the contrary, our income is well below the official "Poverty Line" one hears so much about. I am on Old Age Security, and Daniel is on Assisted Income for Severely Handicap (AISH). Alberta is the only Providence in Canada that has this program, this is why we are staying put here and learning to love the cold .... BRrrrrr. The whole point of this "ramble" is ..... it can be done. One has to "shit or get off the pot!" Excuse my French!

Subject: Re: stuff....

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 06:42:04 -0600

> Question: > Would anyone agree that dis-ease is an affliction our bodies undergo as warning signals about > > aspects of ourselves (on myriad levels)? > > That physical pain is but the culmination of thought/other processes that could be looked at > > and directed more positively towards the universe and ourselves? > > That dis-ease is a call for healing and languishing in it, ie giving it energy simply > > exacerbates it?? > > ___________________________________

Hi Kim! Good to hear from you again. I am glad you asked the question. I answer from my own experience and what I have observed during and since doing my own therapy and subsequent training. The short answer is ' yes ' ....... but!

There were ten of us (resident) in the group at the Stress and Pain Clinic . . . this is the number the therapists found comfortable to manage during groups sessions. What was interesting to me was that every one of those therapists had gone through the therapy themselves as "clients" . . . not patients!

When the clinic first opened, the Directors/Owners employed those usually termed as "professionals." They had the credentials but not the experience, therefore came from a text book in their methods. Not being able to relate to the "pain" their clients were talking about . The rate for success was so low it was disappointing. The staff, including the secretary/receptionist were all replaced with those who understood (from their own experience) the "pain" as related by the clients. The success rate very quickly improved. The husband/wife owners were themselves "professionals" with personal experience that led them to open the clinic. He was an Orthopedic surgeon well known in his homeland of Great Britain and as he told me, had enough of "cutting people up".

While he went on the premise of ' we are what we think ' and much of what you have aforementioned, nevertheless as a doctor of medicine he also knew that there are physical causes for dis-ease. My own case being a very good example.

It was during my own therapy and subsequent internship at this same clinic that I researched into the Ying -Yang Theory which I have included in my Home Page see : <http://members.home.net/gelr/yingyang.htm> I apologize for the state of my home page. It is under reconstruction after a major crash of my computer requiring me to reformat the hard drive. Much of the data has been lost, but I am in the process of correcting this.

Subject: Gary! Great Answer! (Re: Stuff)

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:40:07 -0500

Hi Gary!

Great answer - it really made me think! I've always believed that = "experience is the best teacher!" ALWAYS! That way, you can = "emphasize" and NOT symphatize!

Subject: Re: i seek it here, i seek it there, i seek the moment everywhere, but...

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 02:19:20 GMT

Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->(ray) As soon as humanity handles anything it ->is defiled by his conditioned handling... -> ->what if i wash my hands really good? ->or wear surgikal gloves?

How can one take a shower with their clothes on ? The gloves protect the conditioned contents from being defiled by Truth.

->(ray) For Truth is a stand-alone condition, in that it needs no handling ->from us. -> ->how then embrace the Wench, ray - or rather, how pique Her kuriosity so that ->She may be inklined to size me for a suit & perhaps embrace me later...

Who is "She" and who is "me" ? It is when "She" IS "me" that She can BE the embrace. Projecting the Dualistic notion that "She" is other than "me" keeps the Two of you in separate chambers.

->my vest, my shirt & my three kornered hat i have already removed in Her ->presence - alas, to no avail... must i now undo the kodpiece & peel my ->Self out of my tights... Out Here! in the Marketplace! in the Dirt where ->everyone Gossips & Talks!

Indeed, for All to See In all it's Wondrous Open Honesty, That will most likely cause jealousy And a Torrent Tempest Forever Free. Only in the Winds of War Can we sever Ties Forever more, And lo the Moons of Eden Soar As the Phoenix from the Flames it bore. As in the Grand Trickster's face we laugh For NOW we are once more Whole not half, And in Delight we sacrifice all that we have To Lose thyself to gain thySelf and toss out the Salve.

->i put the mask aside, the bells & the pointed shoes... is this still not ->naked enuff for Her... surely She is not waiting for the Rollex & the St ->Kristophers to come off...

"Out damn spot", as Shakespear did demand As the funeral call as conditioned Fires are fanned.

->when will She let me In???

When you let yourself out >From the conditioned prison's doubt, And lay waste to the Veils Of the conditioned separation that prevails.

->when i strip my mind as well?

Especially so As All conditioned notions must go.

->when i unburden myself of notions & such?

The very Veils that are Lifted for the Kiss And Embrace of She the Virgin Miss Who cares not for that or this But rather longs for Union's Bliss.

->& if so, where will i store them, ->to whom bequeath

"Return To Sender" Address Unknown this Lender.

->should my enfeebled konstituion ->expire in the Voidness of Her embrace...

Only when the Veil is lifted and you See Her Face Does mortal man Directly Experience Her Grace, And IN/AS such Eternal Infinite Embrace Is mortal man no more and IS Ecstasy of Space.

->as u kan see, ray, i am sorely troubled & vexed,

And so you should be As in such Chains naught is Free, And cloistered in Illusion's Fantasy We See naught Awakening's Blissful Ecstasy.

->& to compound these mini-miseries, the new moon ->is rising & the camels getting restive ->& i'm down to my last smoke...

Ah, have-nots and haves do so conflict Within the conditioned programmed derelict, And yet conditioning does addict All the notions we mentally depict.

->oh yeah, like the airhead that i am, i left my cell-fone ->the passanger seat of bishops pike's VW - means ->i kant fone my mom...

Ah, a symptom of Insanity The loss of our conditioned Identity, Yet there may be Hope for mortality When we Dwell IN/AS Eternal Infinity.

->a finger will do ray, if u kan find it in urself to raise it...

Beware the Finger gets to close To the eye impinged by pain verbose, So Blinded by the very Lance That could Point to where we can Dance.

Subject: Re: unheimlich beantwort - danke shon

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 04:11:29 GMT

Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->chust today i find hyou haf a chat line... ->any chance fur me to talk to zum of ze peeple? -> ->i vud like zat - to chat to utherz hu are zumwhere in between ->ze nites und ze daze

Indeed Dear Friend, you are welcome to join any chat session. Pam will be setting up regular chats about the proposed Mission Of Light Retreat Center. And of course if anyone here at the Community wants to attend they can. Or even set up chats on their own. The Light Mission Chat Room is open 28 hours a day 8 days a week 5 weeks a month 13 months a year. If you want to check out the Light Mission Chat Room it is at: http://www.Light-Mission.org/Light-Mission-Chat.html

Thank you for asking. And thank you for the quote from the wall of Sarah's Soup Kitchen.

BE Well and ever so Mindful Wonderful Friend.

Subject: World Time Clock!

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:50:44 -0600

Hello everyone!

For your convenienience here is the url to see what time it is in various part of the world. Good for those wanting to use the chat room for discussion and meetings.

<http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/>

Subject: Photo Album!

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 05:18:13 -0600

Anyone who would like to submit a scanned picture of themself for the Family Of Mission Light Photo Album, can send it to me : <glr@home.com> and I will start one for posterity. It will be nice to have it for the archives as we work on the Retreat Center Project. This is PURELY VOLUNTARY. Also it would be nice to place a face to the name of the people in the discussion group. Should you decide to send one, please make it the latest one. No baby pictures on a Bear Rug :))

Subject: Gary - You Really ARE A Sweetheart!!!!!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:19:54 -0500

Hi Gary!

Wow! Yes, I can use this, I could never figure out the "differences in time between countries and states!)

Love ya Gary

Subject: Re: Photo Album!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:23:04 -0500

<<<<No baby pictures on a Bear Rug :))>>>

Ahh, come on Gary, can't we have SOME fun here??? LOL

I'll try to find a picture of me and scan it or email it to you via disk.

What a WONDERFUL IDEA!!!!

Subject: Good Morning Everyone !!!! ***EXTREMELY IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!***

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:44:23 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0306_01C0E507.A95C3CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All!

I realize that we made a "special list" just for the conversations = regarding the Retreat Center, but I need to have some feedback from both = lists!

Please! Whoever has not signed up for our "new discussion (Retreat = Center) list" please do so now! Together! We can make it happen, but it = will take all of us. It's a group effort. Not only do we desperately = want the Retreat Center, we NEED it! This Retreat Center is so very = unique and not like any other in that "Religion" doesn't count! You are = what you are - you are what you believe! Support, education, workshops, = guided meditation, and other wonderful opportunities await you! If you = don't want to participate in any of the above - YOU DON'T HAVE TO! You = can just walk around the gardens, set at the Reflecting Pool, meditate, = sleep, rest, have fun, and BECOME STRESS FREE! This will benefit = thousands and thousands of people. And just think - as a group, WE made = it happen - WE made a dream into reality!

So, please - sign up for the Retreat Center Group today. We need you! =20

Those that already have signed up for this new group, I thank you with = all my heart!

I am proposing a date and time for our "Kick-Off Meeting" and I need = EVERYONE'S REPLY/INPUT as to whether or not you can make it; or suggest = another time frame which is good for you! Practicality tells me that = not everyone can make it at once, so I am going to give you 3 dates to = consider. Please choose one. If any of you absolutely cannot make any = of these dates, but want to participate, please let me know, and Gary, = Sharlene and I will set up a time that is good for you :)

Here are the proposed dates and times - to be held in E.J.'s Conference = Room: NOTE: ALL TIMES ARE IN EASTERN STANDARD TIME. I will place a "URL" = after this letter (thanks to Gary!) for the global times.

Sunday, May 27, at 7:00 A.M. Monday, May 28, at 8:00 P.M. Tuesday, May 29, at 5:00 P.M.

Remember - these times are Eastern Standard Time!

Here is the URL where you can figure out the "time difference" (If you = still need help and/or verification, please do not hesitate to email = Gary!).

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

(I would like to thank Gary for giving me this link - it is extremely = helpful - THANK YOU GARY!!!!!)

Please email me back ASAP to let me know what date and time is best for = you so that we can plan accordingly; or if none of the above is good - = as I said, we will MAKE time for you :)

Remember - WE NEED YOU IN THIS PROJECT!!!

I also want to assure you that any project I assign and you accept will = be at YOUR discretion. It will NOT be anything that you can't handle = easily!

WE also need and want your suggestions, comments and input into this! = Your ideas are very important to us!

One more thing: Anyone who has tried out the fundraising url's that I = posted the other day, please give me your feedback!

Thank you all so very much!

With love and light to ALL OF YOU!

Love Pam C

http://www.Light-Mission.org/Light-Mission-Chat.html

http://www.Light-Mission.org/LightMissionRetreat.html

=20 Please make a visit to this wonderful, non-profit shoppe: "Ye Ole Shoppe" http://www.Light-Mission.org/MOLYeOleShoppe.html

=20 "Light Mission Books!" http://www.Light-Mission.org/LM_Books.html

Please visit my website at: www.pam-coupe.com

Subject: Re: in and out a bit

From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>

Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 12:23:06 +0200

Hi all, I wanted to post a short note to you, to let you know I haven't been attending much at all these last 4/5 weeks. My Mum took badly ill - she's rising to the challenge of life again now ;-) - but will still need further Op's etc. My reason for popping in at the moment is to say, I have read a few bit's and pieces, especially to you Pam/Gary/Shar/E.J.. I think you have put in a lot of work to get folks interested in the retreat and I hope it can go through, a wonderful endeavour !! I live in the Netherlands, so I always have to subtract 7 to 8 hours in regard to the USA/Canada. I don't know what I could do to be of any physical help over here. I'm not a handy creature with a computer either. But I DO wish all to go well. Well at least you know I have not been ignoring you all. Love in abundance 2 U all - Wombat:)

Subject: Re: Photo Album!

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 06:26:40 -0700

At 05:18 AM 5/25/01 -0600, you wrote:

>Anyone who would like to submit a scanned picture of themself for the >Family Of Mission Light Photo Album, can send it to me :

I have no photo's of myself. Always thought they kept me in living in the past, remembering what I used to look like. Maybe I can find some brave soul to take one, if you promise the camera won't steal my soul.......

Subject: FINALLY! AFTER OVER 36 HOURS OF BEING UP - I HAVE GREAT NEWS I WANT TO SHARE WITH EVERONE!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 01:47:08 -0500

Hi Everyone!

First of all, some of you will not recognize me as I have not posted on your groups lately - and for that I deeply apologize.

However, I am so very excited that I wanted to share my exciting news with all my friends!

After being up over 36 hours, my beautiful daughter-in-law gave birth to a gorgeous baby girl at 9:57 P.M. last night (Friday). I just home from the hospital not long ago. Both mom and baby are doing wonderful. My son - well he's another story. He's actually the "patient" right now LOL (just kidding!)

Actually, my son's chest is sticking out 6 feet and both he and Laura, although exhausted, have smiles from ear to ear. Just to watch the interaction between them brought tears to my eyes. Honestly! When I got into the room, I didn't think my son would allow me to hold my granddaughter! I finally sat down in the chair and TOLD him to give her to me NOW. He then proceeded with instructions on how to hold her!!!! They are ecstatic over this little bundle of joy. I looked into her face and saw my son 26 years ago; with the exception that she has her mom's hair color - and a lot of hair. I could count the tiny little fingers, but when I went for the toes, my son wouldn't let me remove the blanket! It was absolutely awesome. What a beautiful little family they are! I can tell you right now, that little Ms. Breanna Leigh is definitely going to be "daddy's girl" and poor mom will have to be the disciplinarian in the family LOL

Breanna weighed in at 7 lbs. 6 ozs. I forgot to get her "length" I was so excited over everything.

Thank you for taking the time to read this email - I am so excited and wanted so much to share this news with all my friends!

I'm headed off to bed now, as I said I have been up over 36 hours, but wanted to get this news out.

Take care - and Love and Light to all of you!

Subject: Hello! Here is an email that I am forwarding to you from the "Give and Take Scratchcard" Fundraiser that I emailed you about earlier!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:39:31 -0500

Hi Everyone:

Following is an email that I received in regards to one of the fundraisers that I wrote to you about. I think it will help to give you some more information on this particular fundraising company. Let me know how you feel!

I still haven't had any responses from my previous requests in response to this project. Please email E.J., me, Sharlene or Gary if you have problems with this.

You are all wonderful people and I know that youall will love "the finished project!"

Love ya!

Love and Light PamC.

P/S: Make sure you go to their site for your free sample! I got mine today, and it looks very promising, but I want your opinions and suggestions on this also!!!! :)

Subject: ONEness

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 10:00:00 -0600

To practice what ONE preaches is not as easy as it is made out to be. This ONE at this *time* of this *age* is very fragmented and about to fall apart. That is why, a new *age* is in the making to recast and sculpture a new ONE. This is the Natural Law of Cause and Effect. It doesn't take physical sight to see, the energy is felt as it permeates through the cosmos.

Subject: Re: in and out a bit

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 10:01:41 -0600

Hi Wombat! Good to *hear* from you. Sorry about your mother, and I trust this will find her well on the way to recovery. Is she back in NZ$ or where you are in the Netherlands? As for the project, everyone has something to offer, if only using the brains. It need not always to be physical activity, that is why this project is being set up using a circular (ring) model rather then a hierarchy model. So if you wish, you can be enlisted on the MOL Retreat Center General Discussion List for input and ideas. Just let me know, Shar is quite busy these days as is the skipper, and the fund raiser, so for the time being I am the most available of the coordinators. Contacting me avoids filling up anyone else's mailbox unnecessarily, is the thinking! Thanks for the update and you are in our daily life.

Subject: Re: ONEness

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 17:10:46 GMT

Greetings Gary, you wrote: ->To practice what ONE preaches is not as easy as it is made out to be. ->This ONE at this *time* of this *age* is very fragmented and about to ->fall apart. That is why, a new *age* is in the making to recast and ->sculpture a new ONE. This is the Natural Law of Cause and Effect. ->It doesn't take physical sight to see, the energy is felt as it ->permeates through the cosmos.

*Deep Bow* Indeed, Talking the Talk is one thing and Walking the Talk is another. It is easy when IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment, for all there is IS the Walk to Talk. But in the unstable in and out of the Moment, it is difficult to be focussed IN/AS the Walk so what we Talk of is what we *know* (conditionings). They are easy to walk for we have been ingrained early on in our life to walk such walk. And as hard as we work at it, as Wise Sages since time immemerable has told us, we can not work on Awakening. The harder we work at it the further it gets away from us. We have to Work on letting go of the conditioned notions and what is left IS Awakening. So, it can be said that Awakening just *happens* as a Natural result of letting go of our defiling conditioned notions.

And yes, though few are noticing it, *the hand writing is on the wall*. Humanity is *reaping what it has sewn*, from the environment to it's very Blindness -- as poor health due to pollution and genetic growing to war/conflict/crime/hate/greed. There is an Effect for every Cause, which some call Karma. Though what meaning is it to call our Present sad state of affairs Karma. Fact is, regardless of what we call it, we have been taking the Yellow Brick Road to Oz and Oz turns out to be a burned out city. And it will not be a Yellow Brick Road back to Truth/Reality, because we burned that out too. And though it may seem that we have been given an insurmountable mountain to climb, the only nasty step is the First one. BE Still, just BE -- and we Realize that it is just a little hill that only requires One step to get to the Top.

Thank you for your offering Dear Friend.

Subject: Thought For Food

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 17:49:19 GMT

Nisargadatta Quote:

"Attachment destroys courage. The giver is always ready to give. The taker is absent. Freedom means letting go. People just do not care to let go of everything. They do not know that the finite is the price of the infinite, as death is the price of immortality. Spiritual maturity lies in the readiness to let go of everything. The giving up is the first step. But the real giving up is in realizing that there is nothing to give up, for nothing is your own. It is like deep sleep -- you do not give up your bed when you fall asleep -- you just forget it."

Subject: Pay The Price

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 06:44:05 -0700

You say that everything is so Perfect just the way it IS This is True but we are conditioned not to know this,

Shar: This line was in the poem of the newsletter this morning, and unfortunately (ha) for you, it got me going again.

This is also the beginning to awake version of the Pollyanna syndrome. For those who have been here awhile know that everything is perfect just the way it is, in the WHAT IS in the MOMENT. Not in the Pollyanna version of suffering is perfect and I am suppose to learn lessons in the experience so let me suffer and I will grow. The only lesson there is to learn is that of releasing our conditioned thoughts of what is perfect to accept that which is perfect WHAT IS in the moment. In the moment there is no suffering, in the moment there is no lesson, in the moment we just do what must be done. There are no past lives to discover, there is no karma to balance, karma is created in the moment, not in the past or in the future. Today we do have to work with our yesterdays learning, we created the moment we are in, as a result of how we reacted in the moments gone by, and yet, each moment being new, we do not have to carry yesterdays moments with us. What is,just IS, a result of what we do within the moment.

Not sure that came out right but we shall try it and send it anyway.

I know we have been pushing the Retreat Center as of late, and for a reason. To beat the darkness of the coming Kali Yuga. We need to have as many Light Workers as possible to aide in the awakening of others. I know that those on this list are serious or you still wouldn't be here hanging around. It doesn't matter whether you post or not, the fact is, you remain. Thank you for that.

What I am asking, is, if any of you have any type of skill/talent that you work with in the creativity line, to please consider making something extra to donate to the Light-Mission Shoppe. It doesn't have to be sent to the Mission to be sold, just a picture of what you have created can be submitted. This can be anything from woodwork, to crochet, to tatting, knitting, homemade cookies, anything that can be mailed by you to the person that purchases it. If you are good at ceramics, pottery, whatever, perhaps in your creativity, you could make an extra one for donation.

Homemade dishrags, knitted baby sweaters, clocks,bookends, whatever you can do, is appreciated by all who will benefit by having the Center. Please don't think that what you make isn't good enough to sell, it is, just for the fact it is made by the love of doing and giving. Each of us contain some sort of talent that we use daily, we sometimes just have to think of a way to use it as a benefit to others. Perhaps you have the love of photography, submit a picture of a picture that you think others would enjoy.

I also make a suggestion that perhaps we hang a plaque in the entrance of the Center with all the names of those who have so generously donated their time in helping this become a reality.

Thanks everyone, I promise I won't beg on a daily basis. Blessings to all,

Subject: Re: Thought For Food

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 20:53:08 -0700

>"If we want to understand how we are ordinarily misled by our false >projections and how we can begin to break free from their influence, it is >helpful to think of the analogy of our dream experiences. When we wake up >in the morning, where are all the people we were just dreaming about? Where >did they come from? And where did they go? Are they real or not? Of course >not.

Shar: So tell me, kind sir; I don't seem to dream very much, if at all. I used to dream more, and always appeared to receive some sort of answer to a problem or deli-ema I have been pondering. Sometimes I will end up in a de'ja vue thing and know it was from a dream at some point. Yet, I can't get up in the morning and know I have experienced a dream.

What is the purpose of dreaming? Is it true that dreams always need interpretation? I find allot of significance in a dream, as they are rare and like I said, I seem to receive some kind of answer to a problem.

I recall one that I had when I was a passenger on a barge and had no control of the direction it was being steered. It ended up in a hole or fall, and broke apart with freight floating in every direction. The message I got from this was at a time I was trying to figure out an answer to a problem, and realized that I was trying to solve somebodies problem, not one of my own. That was why another was driving a barge loaded with their own baggage, of which I had no control. This came as a bit of a AHA, then I also became aware of when I took others baggage or problems as my own, in a broader way. First with those closest to me, then spread the branches further. I couldn't believe I spent so much time trying to solve things that had nothing to do with me, and yet, my mind or ego told me I was involved or guilty of being the cause of anothers suffering.

I recall being so excited about this bit of news about myself I had to phone a girlfriend to tell her how stupid I had been.

So, is it not possible to use dreams when we do have them, as pointers? Or are they all just illusion? And how can we tell the difference?

You guys are so quiet.............

Subject: Re: Thought For Food

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 05:13:54 GMT

Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Shar: So tell me, kind sir; I don't seem to dream very much, if at all. ->I used to dream more, and always appeared to receive some sort of answer to ->a problem or deli-ema I have been pondering. ->Sometimes I will end up in a de'ja vue thing and know it was from a dream ->at some point. Yet, I can't get up in the morning and know I have ->experienced a dream. -> ->What is the purpose of dreaming?

The short of it is that it is just the subconscious filing away stored information of the day's waking duration. Since most perceive only that which is past and never IN/AS the Moment, the subconscious has to store it and wait until the input apparatus (the waking form) in inactive with it's input. Such levels of the mind do not store or file input (information) in words (a man-made item) but rather in electromagnetic impulses, which when happened upon by the conscious mind during sleep it can not make heads nor tails of it. So, whether sleeping or awake (day dreaming) the conscious mind will apply symbols and pictures to the electromagnetic impulses of the subconscious mind so it can make sense of it. Hence, dreams. In the light sleep cycle dreaming is possible, yet in deep sleep there can be no dreams. When we sleep too much we dream a lot. Most like to think that their dreams are some prophetic revelation, but alas it is just the mind's filing system at work {8-> There are exceptions of course, but for the most part that is what dreaming is.

-> Is it true that dreams always need ->interpretation?

Only in our deluded fantasy that there is something to interpret, or someone to interpret it.

->I find allot of significance in a dream, as they are rare and like I said, ->I seem to receive some kind of answer to a problem.

As I said, there are exceptions, but mostly the seeming answer is the problem symbolized. We can do the same thing consciously by looking into the problem for the answer.

->I recall one that I had when I was a passenger on a barge and had no ->control of the direction it was being steered. It ended up in a hole or ->fall, and broke apart with freight floating in every direction. The message ->I got from this was at a time I was trying to figure out an answer to a ->problem, and realized that I was trying to solve somebodies problem, not ->one of my own. That was why another was driving a barge loaded with their ->own baggage, of which I had no control. ->This came as a bit of a AHA, then I also became aware of when I took others ->baggage or problems as my own, in a broader way. First with those closest ->to me, then spread the branches further. I couldn't believe I spent so much ->time trying to solve things that had nothing to do with me, and yet, my ->mind or ego told me I was involved or guilty of being the cause of anothers ->suffering.

Your seeming answer should have been a given even without the dream.

->So, is it not possible to use dreams when we do have them, as pointers?

As a Pointer to what you should be doing without the dream. Namely, looking into the problem for the answer to that problem rather than looking outside the problem. The more constant we are IN/AS the Moment the less dreams we will encounter for while IN/AS the Present Moment everything is filed instantaneously as there is no such thing as past IN/AS the Present Moment. No time to store input nor time to file it IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment, for there is not time.

->Or are they all just illusion? And how can we tell the difference?

They are symbols and pictures quite real while dreaming, but imaginary when awake. Illusion only in the fact that we *think* they are Real in the waking state as well. Well..... since dreams are not Real either waking or sleeping, a difference in what ? The Illusion is thinking that they are.

Subject: thought for food & lama yeshe

From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>

Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:51:52 -0700

mr yeshe,

u probably do not remember me, sir, but i remember u very well indeed - the Prestige Convention Hall, May 31, 1978, Laklustre-bye-the Sea, West Idaho...

i wuz just bidding mr peter falk a fond adieu, waving as he puttered & wheezed off in a truly sad excuse of a car, when u & two other distinguished looking gentlemen pulled up behind him in a klassy two-tone low rider with dingle balls on all the windows & a hula girl on the rear window dash...

"BE Mindful Dear Friend", u sed as u handed me the keys to the Nash, "do not chase that Light, for the Light at the End of the Tunnel might turn our to be a Trane..."

do u remember, mr yeshe?

coal trane, i asked, raising my pullman kap as far above my head as the elastik would go while the other two gentlemen, with a profusion of oaths, were kontorting & klamboring their way out of your kar...

"Wake up & Smell the Koffee, son, " u sed. " U need a sertain amount of Emptying to Bekum Full"... this wuz the kat's ass to me, mr yeshe, becuz a week earlier, my friend, vance packard, had sed sumthing similar...

he sed: if u kut a piece of ham, or balony (bologna) in half - u get two pieces - kool, eh? & he also sed: ' smoking kan kill u'... - & remember, mr yeshe, - this wuz Before smoking became Unkool - he dint mean hookahs & keef, if u katch my drift - he just meant smoking...

anyways, mr yeshe, the goat-teed, shaved head gentleman gave me a koine which i dropped, remember & when i bowed to pick it up, u guys all laffed as the gentleman in the bournoose pulled on my kap & slipped a piece of paper into it... do u remember, mr yeshe???

& as i bowed my frog pendant slipped out of my vest - the spread-eagled frog (a real frog by the way, lacquered with clear nail polish) - surely u remember that, mr yeshe, cuz u sed: son, the Real Frog don't have no Legs - he don't need them, if u unnerstand what i'm saying... it ain't the legs that make the frog, it ain't the meat, son, it's the motion... u sed that, mr yeshe, & then u doubled over & roared with laffter... surely u remember that, sir... i wuz staring at u pie eyed for sum sort of konfirmation (katholik word, think u knot) which may or may knot have cum akross in the Lite i saw in All of ur I's... all Three of U

when i eggs-planed that i had laquered the frog becuz, by akksident he got caught in the door jam without my Knowing & wuzn't diskovered until the following Spring... & had becum Momified by that time - as a token of respekt for/to the frog, i laquered him & wore him around my neck to remind me that the door kan close at any time or that the wheel or the windshield kan katch u when ur most asleep - or maybe even when ur wide awake - with both eyes klosed, by the way, which mine are at this time... though the kar keeps moving - at an alarming velocity...

surely u remember, mr yeshe: at the seminar, frere Lapin-Agile spoke first (he wuz great), then mr r Balsekar, & u rounded off the evening by asking the kook - the chinese kook, hung chih, a dear friend of mine, by the way, to cum up to the podium & take a bow for the eggsalence of his chow mein & egg foo yong...

do u remember, mr yeshe?

i sertainly do, cuz when i got back to where i came from, my mom wuz beside herself with joy becuz, as she put it: all the kows have kum home & all the birds have kum back to roost & u didn't cum back with beans from the market... or sum story of a giant in the Sky with a goose that lays golden eggs... with Bessy back, we kan eventually get some cheeze...

but as i write this to u, mr. yeshe, i kan hear my mother weeping & i know knot if she weeps from joy or from sadness...

wot say u, mr yeshe - sertainly she weeps with joy becuz i have turned out so well, n'est-ce pas... i didn't trade the cow for beans, but mom & i kan at least eat cheese for a few more years & that's sertainly sufficient, think u knot...

respektfully, phillipe montaigne

ps: any chance of getting an address for the frere Agile-Lapin???

Subject: dreemz

From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>

Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:49:15 -0700

sharlene,

i quote yogajyotii, r - 1888 - present:

What if you Slept, and what if in your Sleep you Dreamed, and what if in your Dream you glimpsed Reality and there you Realized a strange and beautiful Truth, and what if when you awoke you Realized that you had not been Dreaming ? What then ?

lux ex tenebris, in a most splendid storm blowing thru nelson,

take kare & walk sophtly, like sophists do,

regards from my inner selph, volker...

Subject: Re: Thought For Food

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 05:43:36 -0700

Good morning EJ , you wrote:

>->Me:What is the purpose of dreaming? > > YOU:The short of it is that it is just the subconscious filing away stored >information of the day's waking duration.

S: Then I guess, I do not store much information or nothing much happens that needs to be stored. I exercise the right to a selective memory.

> You: In the light sleep cycle dreaming is possible, yet in deep sleep >there can be no dreams.

S: When we deep sleep, where do we go? Not physically. Some say they travel.

> EJ:When we sleep too much we dream a lot. Most >like to think that their dreams are some prophetic revelation, but alas it >is just the mind's filing system at work {8->

Shar: that just tells me that I have not much of a mind. Why is it that at the end of the day, it's just the end of another day? Is my life that boring? It doesn't seem boring and yet if I ponder about the day, there is nothing big to report. I paint, I eat, I share conversation. Thats my life.

>->I find allot of significance in a dream, as they are rare and like I said, >->I seem to receive some kind of answer to a problem. > > As I said, there are exceptions, but mostly the seeming answer is the >problem symbolized. We can do the same thing consciously by looking into >the problem for the answer.

S: Perhaps when we can stand back unattached to the problem. But most of the time when we perceive a problem we are too involved to look at it. It just dawned on me, that the root of perceive is actually receive.Which in turn means we allow the problem in the first place.

> Your seeming answer should have been a given even without the dream.

S: Not when we are emotionally attached to the problem. In the dream there were no emotions attached.

> As a Pointer to what you should be doing without the dream. Namely, >looking into the problem for the answer to that problem rather than looking >outside the problem.

S: Can't see the forest for the trees...I refuse to have many problems any more. People think I am crazy but that's okay. I sleep well. I'm one who lays down to sleep, and falls asleep immediately. No pondering, my ponders come in the AM with coffee. Maybe I should give up coffee, lol Not on your life, coffee time is what getting up is all about..... Those timers on the pots are wonderful inventions.

> They are symbols and pictures quite real while dreaming, but imaginary >when awake. Illusion only in the fact that we *think* they are Real in >the waking state as well. Well..... since dreams are not Real either >waking or sleeping, a difference in what ? The Illusion is thinking that >they are.

What if I were to find the rose on my pillow, what then? I know, find out who put it there.....

Subject: Re: pop quiz

From: o.dodge@att.net

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 18:28:08 +0000

Very good sharlene -- you get an extra cookie at snack time! <G>

love and grace.......oren

> > > > >What is: > >1. more powerful than God > >2. more evil than the Grand Trickster/Devil > >3. The rich need it > >4. The poor have it > >5. and if you eat it, you will die? > > > NO-THING

Subject: Re: dreemz

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 05:07:32 -0700

Regards to your inner self, you wrote:

>i quote balsekar, r - 1858 - 1947:

And a fine quote it is,

>What if you Slept, > and what if in your Sleep you Dreamed, > and what if in your Dream you glimpsed Reality >and there you Realized a strange >and beautiful Truth, >and what if when you awoke > you Realized that you had not been Dreaming ? >What then ?

I have had experiences just like that. It's like a time warp in the brain. Instantaneous,and yet a complete scenario played out as in a dream.

Do you want a different type of personal experience? Try this. Lay comfortably on the floor, with mattress/blanket and pillow.Concentrate on your breath for at least an hour. Do steady and rhythmic breathing totally aware of each breath. Let whatever comes into your mind flow by, do not get hung up on it or concentrate on anything but your breath. At first it will seem like you are going to hyper ventilate, but that will pass quickly. Just fill your body with the breath, visualize the breath touching every part of your body from the inside. Concentrate on the breath at all times. You may experience trembling in your body, or the shakes. This is your body experiencing the breath for the first time. Do this until the breath flows smoothly through the head and out your feet. If you experience pain in any part of the body, this can be an indication of where you store your emotions, hurts and anger. Many things come to the forefront, you may experience a releasing of old buried emotions that are causing unknown sources of pain in the body. The breathing may take practise as when you first start anything, you have to train or teach yourself how to breathe as well. Sit with a clock if you have to, concentrate on the breath and when you lose focus, check the time. The moments do get longer. What seems like forever at first, may only be a minute or five. Work yourself up to longer and longer. Or if you have a friend, have them sit with you to remind you to breathe for that hour. Have them talk you through the breathing, saying slowly and rheumatically breathe in breathe out to a pace that is comfortable for you. this also helps in keeping the focus on the breath if you experience any emotion attached to the pictures or words that come to the mind. Let the visions flow through, do not attach yourself or get involved with them. This is the ultimate in an active mediation, in my opinion anyway. Plus the body benefits from the added oxygen.

Walk in peace my friend,

Subject: Re: dreemz

From: ghoke@mountain.net

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:02:23 -0400

This is what I experienced as "Rebirthing". By deep breathing, you absolutely do not hyperventilate. You charge your body with the oxygen and feel life tingling all over. This is a helpful way of meditation.

Warren

Sharlene wrote:

Subject: Re: Thought For Food

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:13:28 GMT

Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->S: Then I guess, I do not store much information or nothing much happens ->that needs to be stored. I exercise the right to a selective memory.

Every waking Moment something is happening. When experienced IN/AS the Moment it is filed instantaneously so nothing is stored. All is remembered, we just forget to remember it {8->

->S: When we deep sleep, where do we go? Not physically. Some say they travel.

No matter where you go, there you are. There may be movement but you can not be anywhere other than where you are. When focussed in the past we can be anywhere we want to be in our head, yet IN/AS the Present Moment we are always where we ARE that Moment regardless of any movement.

->Shar: that just tells me that I have not much of a mind.

Everyone has a mind, most fill it with clutter and few keep it Empty of the clutter.

->Why is it that at the end of the day, it's just the end of another day? Is ->my life that boring? It doesn't seem boring and yet if I ponder about the ->day, there is nothing big to report. I paint, I eat, I share conversation. ->Thats my life.

When life is Lived, regardless of how seemingly mundane it is, how can that be boring ? To Live every Moment as though it is the only Moment to be Lived IS Life AS it IS. All is most Wondrous AS it IS. When you paint, paint. When you eat, eat. When you share conversation, share conversation. Anything other than the Moment is boring yet we contrive grandiose elaborations to make it seem otherwise. IN/AS the Moment, just standing there agape at the Wonder of Life AS it IS is far from boring.

->S: Perhaps when we can stand back unattached to the problem. But most of ->the time when we perceive a problem we are too involved to look at it. It ->just dawned on me, that the root of perceive is actually receive.Which in ->turn means we allow the problem in the first place.

The Key: un-attachment, to anything whether it be problem or otherwise.

->S: Not when we are emotionally attached to the problem. In the dream there ->were no emotions attached.

The Key: un-attachment, to anything whether it be problem or otherwise.

->S: Can't see the forest for the trees...I refuse to have many problems any ->more.

*Deep Bow*

->People think I am crazy but that's okay. I sleep well. I'm one who lays ->down to sleep, and falls asleep immediately. No pondering, my ponders come ->in the AM with coffee. Maybe I should give up coffee, lol ->Not on your life, coffee time is what getting up is all about..... ->Those timers on the pots are wonderful inventions.

Why even ponder it. Was it Lived ? Can it be re-lived ? It WAS yet is no more, so clinging to it only brings forth regret or misgiving. Live it and let it go.

->What if I were to find the rose on my pillow, what then? ->I know, find out who put it there.....

Hmmmmm Who was that masked man ? The Lone Ranger ?

Subject: Re: pop quiz

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 19:24:31 GMT

Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->What is: ->1. more powerful than God ->2. more evil than the Grand Trickster/Devil ->3. The rich need it ->4. The poor have it ->5. and if you eat it, you will die?

A Dualistic delusion Dear Friend, as there is no God/Devil or rich/poor or life/death. There is only BEing, which IS all that IS.

Subject: I know, but we should not

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 02:40:24 GMT

Greetings Community,

Something picked up on another list, which has universal Insight. A good reason to start Awakening and a good reason why the Mission of Light Retreat Center is so vitally needed:

"I know, but we should not" by Marina Colassanti

"I know that we get used. But should not. We get used to living in the back apartment and not to have a view except the windows around us. And because we do not have another view, we soon get used to not looking outside. And because we do not look outside, soon we get used to not opening the curtains. And because we do not open the curtains, soon we get used to turning the lights on, earlier. And as we get used, we forget the sun, we forget the air, forget the amplitude.

"We get used to waking up in the morning, in a frenzy because it is time. To have breakfast in a hurry because we're late. To read the newspaper on the bus because we cannot waste the time. To eat sandwiches because we have no time to have lunch. To leave the office because it is already evening. To nap on the bus because we're tired. To go to bed early and sleep like a log without having lived the day.

"We get used to opening the newspaper and reading about the war. And accepting the war we accept death and that there may be a number of dead people. And accepting the numbers, we accept not to believe in the negotiations in favor of peace. And not accepting the negotiations in favor of peace, we accept to have every day of war, of numbers, long lasting days.

"We get used to waiting all day long and hear on the phone: I can't go today. To smile at people without getting a smile back. To be ignored when we need so much to be seen.

"We get used to walking on the streets and seeing billboards. To open magazines and seeing ads, to turn on the TV and watching commercials. To go to the cinema and swallow publicity. To be instigated, conducted, feeling lost, thrown about in the endless cataract of products.

"We get used to paying for everything that we desire and that we need. And to struggle to make the money that we pay it all with. And to make less money than we need. And to stay in line to pay. And to pay more than things are worth. And to know that each time we will pay more. And to try to find more work, to make more money, to have what to pay with in the lines where it is collected.

"We get used to pollution. To the artificial light. To the shock that the eyes suffer when we are in the natural light. To the bacteria in drinking water, the contamination in the ocean. To the slow death of the rivers. We get used not to listen to the birds, not to have cocks crowing at dawn, to fear the hydrophobia of the dogs, not to pick fruit from the tree, not to have even one little plant.

"We get used to too much, not to suffer. In small doses, trying not to perceive, we push away one pain here, one resentment there, a revolt over there. If the cinema is crowded we seat in the first row and twist our necks. If the beach is contaminated we only wet our feet and sweat all over the body. If work is hard we comfort ourselves thinking about the weekend. And if during the weekend there isn't much to do we go to bed early and even feel satisfied as we have not slept much.

"We get used not to feel the hardness and spare our skin. We get used to avoiding wounds, bleeding, to avoid the knife, the bayonet and to spare our chest.

"We get used to spare our lives. That little by little is wasted, and because of all this getting used, it is lost on its own..."

BE Well and most Mindful Wonderful Friends.

Subject: Fallacy

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:15:29 -0600

There are some school of thought that in order to * attain * enlightenment, Awakening, or however one want to phrase it, one has to give away everything and go to a cave up in the Himalayas and spend the rest of one's life in isolation and mediation. In as much as this can be the way for some, not everyone is cut out for the rigors of such a hermit life. When the "New Age" phenomena first hit the Western world, many rushed to India and Tibet in search of that elusive * God * to fill the void in their lives. The Hippy Movement was born, with its offspring the Flower Child. As these * children * matured, at least those that did not fall prey to the Woodstock scene realized that changing the outer dressing of lifestyle, does not bring enlightenment nor awakening. "Gandhi" became a household word. Every one heard the cry for Peace go out, but few were listening.

I was 15 years of age and living in Bombay, India. My father a veteran of the elite Ghindit Corps that fought in the Burma Campaign had arrived at the end of the two years grace given every volunteer soldier together with their discharge from "Service To God and Country" to decide where they wish to be repatriated to in order to pick up their live where it had so rudely been interrupted by the greed and ego of one man - Adolf Hitler! He is another story.

Pulled out of my third (in a my lifetime) formal school I sought employment to fill the waiting hours, much to the delight and pride (and my surprise) of my father. He even wrote glowing phrases to my elder brother in Hong Kong of my initiative - the first time ever I felt any sense of recognition from any members of my biological family. We were awaiting a vessel to ship us to England (another surprise) which was my sister's and my decision. - I am digressing!

My place of employment, a British Engineering Factory was located next to a morgue. This was a time of post quiet and not so quiet revolution in India for independence from The still existing British Empire and beginning of internal disorder between Pakistan and India for Kashmir. An ongoing feud to this day. The assassination and funeral of the mahatma in New Delhi had preceded the Farewell Parade held in every major city in the land of the last Viceroy in India, Lord and Lady Mounbatten, uncle and aunt to the present Queen of England. It was a time of joy and jubilation as people waved, the Union Jack and the new Flag of India. All was serene and beautiful , at least on the surface! During my lunch break at work while eating my sandwich, I would observe truck loads (literally) of bodies piled high being brought in to the morgue on a daily basis. I remember thinking, what did my uncle amongst millions of others die for. The WAR is OVER, Peace is at hand! Have we forgotten the Holocaust so quickly. Was it all for nought?

It was 1948 - THREE YEARs after the Declaration of Peace, and Hiroshima/Nagasaki.

Sorry Oren, I wish it was that simple.

PS: As I type, the news on the radio is telling us of a raging fire not far from us here in Edmonton (Slave Lake). The town of 6,000 is on alert for evacuation, and and the force of the raging fire is equivalent to a nuclear bomb.

PEACE!

Subject: Re: When we remember ... do we remember ..

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 09:59:29 -0700

>Back at you Gary: > >The point that was being made is, that we keep all these wonderful days >for celebrations, and once all the pomp and ceremony and hoopla is over, >we go back to * sinning * again.

Yes we do, it is true, besides the fact, that many don't even know or care why we celebrate, it is just a day off and a big party.

That's also what I meant when I said, I all I can do is to do my best to not add to the suffering or be apart of it happening again. I do remember the suffering and the pain, of that which I have seen. I see the wall, and remember seeing the pain and yet can not remember the war, I wasn't there. I also remember July 1st, as that was the day my first babe was born. This, I do celebrate.

We celebrate freedom and yet it is an illusion in the way we celebrate it. Do we have an awareness day when we celebrate the fact we could all be aware and awake? Not yet, but we are in preparation of it. :)

Subject: "To BE or not to BE ?"

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 19:46:41 GMT

Greetings Community,

"To BE or not to BE ?" Is that really a question or simply an inclination to BE resulting from the continued Unfolding Evolution/Involution of our True Nature ? And what might be holding us back other than the Grand Trickster our conditioned modus operandi ? As we progress along the Journey as sentient Evolved/Involved beings there arises this urge to BE and struggle with the Grand Trickster's dictates NOT to BE. We ARE our True Nature, that is a given, but that True Nature is Veiled by the Grand Trickster's images and ideas and notions of all sorts and so we do not Realize that True Nature to BE. Yet as long as we cling to our dearly beloved Grand Trickster for our Salvation we never give ourself the opportunity to take that Quantum Leap across the chasm of the seemingly Unknown. The Great Divide betwixt/between Sleeping and Awakening. Such a Leap would violate the *Comfort Zone* set up by the Grand Trickster. The Grand Illusion is nothing more than our inability to See our own defiling conditioned notions of this and that. Our very *Fall >From Grace* is nothing more than our taking the *rose colored glasses* gleefully provided for us by the Grand Trickster. He is the "false prophets" and "false god" that we are conditioned to *believe*. And so the wars and conflicts and strife and corruption and hate and greed and crime marches on.

~ Save Yourself ~

What you see is not really what you get it is only part Because what you do see is nothing more than start, As what you see is just projected conditioned notions All you are actually doing is going through the motions.

All Wise Sages and Scriptures since the times of yore They all speak of Illusion and the myriad things it bore, Such as our truth and our reality not seeming that odd As our perception of Heaven and Hell and even God.

We separate this and that and set up Divine Choice As it's all in our head for we only hear our own Voice, It is about conditioned perception that you can't win Also about what a state of BEing that you are AS/IN.

Empty the mind of the beloved conditioned contents For they will just flutter around being your defilements, If you are up to the Task then you have to let it all go It's all of those conditionings that make you Suffer so.

What you can not see is more of what you really get But you haven't Opened your Eyes so can't See yet, Close your eyes and Open your Eyes just BE Stillness As IN/AS the Silent Void Awakening there's no Illness.

God only Dwells there IN/AS the Moment ever anew Where there's no conditioned notions not even a you, In your subjective world you imprison yourself with lies As the Cosmos cares naught for your whats and whys.

It has been said from Ancient time nothing is your own That your truth and reality are an Illusion you've sewn, So that your world and your god and your individuality Has then nothing to do with Actual Truth and Reality.

Understanding your world is all conditioned projections Offering those dear conditioned notions for a rejection, You can Save yourself from all the needless Suffering IN/AS this ever Eternal Present Moment Awakening.

2001 - Yogajyotii

Subject: Re: When we remember ... do we remember ..

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:34:33 -0600

Hi Shar,

> Shar: It is hard to remember what one didn't see. >

I could have gone on with the list and added -

* The Korean War, The Vietnam Fiasco, The Gulf Island Battle For Control, and now the resurrection of the Middle East's fight for territory.

The point that was being made is, that we keep all these wonderful days for celebrations, and once all the pomp and ceremony and hoopla is over, we go back to * sinning * again. It would be so much more beneficial to dispense with these * special * days and make each day, each moment * Special * It's akin to the Good Old Catholic confession syndrome. I am not pointing the finger AT any denomination particular denomination, simple using an example I know. The point is, PEOPLE, the human race need to wake up ans smell the coffee. It is easy to talk the walk . . . not the easy to WALK the walk. In the same manner as my generation pass our " learning " to your generation, your generation will pass on in similar fashion to the next, and so on and so forth. What I am suggesting is for each generation to Awake to the realization that mistakes ARE BEing made ... with and in each moment. Not only is it required to BE IN the moment, but als Awake and Aware of our own response/reaction/action in the moment.

I trust that I am not making this too confusing.

and Oren: is the Ahha that E.J. triggered with you sufficient, or shall I explain what I meant by "Not that Easy!"

Subject: Re: "To BE or not to BE ?"

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 18:01:34 -0700

Greetings EJ, you wrote: > "To BE or not to BE ?" Is that really a question or simply an >inclination to BE resulting from the continued Unfolding >Evolution/Involution of our True Nature ?

It is a question that can induce the insight that we should wake up. Are you saying or asking if : that evolution /involution is a path of which we have no control or say, but is true nature taking it's own course?

> And what might be holding us >back other than the Grand Trickster our conditioned modus operandi ?

Hmmmm, Could be just the tape that glues our butts to the bench......

> As >we progress along the Journey as sentient Evolved/Involved beings there >arises this urge to BE and struggle with the Grand Trickster's dictates NOT >to BE.

Well, it's taken many a journey, and many roads.

> We ARE our True Nature, that is a given, but that True Nature is >Veiled by the Grand Trickster's images and ideas and notions of all sorts >and so we do not Realize that True Nature to BE.

True nature is what we are standing naked in a mirror.

> Yet as long as we cling >to our dearly beloved Grand Trickster for our Salvation we never give >ourself the opportunity to take that Quantum Leap across the chasm of the >seemingly Unknown.

And yet, there is no unknown to Leap. The leap or void is also an illusion. An illusion based in fear. The fear of Nothingness meaning we become nothing, nobody.

> The Great Divide betwixt/between Sleeping and >Awakening. Such a Leap would violate the *Comfort Zone* set up by the >Grand Trickster.

The comfort zone is also an illusion. There is no comfort in illusion, only a false comfort that gets shaken from time to time. The Valley of the Unsure.

> Our very *Fall > From Grace* is nothing more than our taking the *rose colored glasses* >gleefully provided for us by the Grand Trickster.

It appears to me that it would not be a fall from grace, but a fall into experiencing grace.

> He is the "false >prophets" and "false god" that we are conditioned to *believe*. And so >the wars and conflicts and strife and corruption and hate and greed and >crime marches on.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. There is no need for war, we are fighting an invisible enemy. We speak of war and yet, we ignore the war that rages within ourselves. The battle between reality and illusion. I see this everyday in this place called home. The invisible enemy strikes again. We can see a brain, but we can not see a mind. We can not know anothers mind, but we can recognize the habits and beliefs they hold. The mind plays games and is not honest even with itself, how can it speak truth?

>~ Save Yourself ~ > >What you see is not really what you get it is only part >Because what you do see is nothing more than start, >As what you see is just projected conditioned notions >All you are actually doing is going through the motions.

Its a game.....and so many follow the rules.......if they don't know them, they make them as they go.

>We separate this and that and set up Divine Choice >As it's all in our head for we only hear our own Voice,

The voice that parrots all others before us. Listen to Sunday morning TV, man oh man, Send some bucks and you can receive this sweaty hanky blessed by God. Who needs it???? And it's all for the mighty greed, and if you really search for truth, the preachers don't even believe their own crap. I get so angry at that stuff, and anger based in fear, then my fear is more people believing it to be so. Billy Graham has a large following, every Christian in the world goes to his revivals. The energy runs wild and free, you can feel the Love of Jesus entering your body and the mind interpreting the words from the preachers own interpretation, and he is good, dammmmmm good I may add. Now we have tens of thousands of people believing in a God, in a Heaven, repenting and asking forgiveness from everyone but themselves. Does this get to me? Yes, it does. In the same way that TV news gets to me, commercials, and newspapers..... Half truths and one sided garbage. Yes, raging fires are true, dangers from earthquakes etc are truth, other than that, is there truth on the news? I don't think so.

Oh, by the way Gary, I hear the rain I was trying to send, finally arrived and the fire is under control. The idea was to send it though, not share it. Another day of not being able to paint.....sheesh. So I went visiting the pet store instead.

Oh my, Sigh,

Subject: Re: "To BE or not to BE ?"

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 02:02:25 GMT

Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->It is a question that can induce the insight that we should wake up. Are ->you saying or asking if : that evolution /involution is a path of which we ->have no control or say, but is true nature taking it's own course?

The ongoing Unfolding Evolution is the refining of the form and establishing it's Potential. Involution is the ongoing Unfolding True Nature of that form and it's Potential. So the ongoing Evolution and Involution and their Potential is quite naturally ongoing relative to the phenomenal realm. Developing the Potential of the form, both as Evolving and Involving, is a given based on the fact that there is such an Evolution/Involution occurring. We are conditioned, however, not to expend the effort to develop either. Though we are conditioned to keep the form healthy. And actually as long as we provide what the form needs it will function as optimally as possible though perhaps not to it's full Potential. So basically what really needs developing is the Potential of the True Nature. The Potential and the ongoing Unfolding of the form and it's True Nature occurs naturally in spite of our folly. It is the development of the Potential that takes our effort. And really the effort is not so much in the developing but rather in letting it develop by letting go of the added baggage that weights down and covers up that Potential. So we just have to let go of the conditionings and the Potential will naturally start coming into it's own. Yes, Mother Nature already has a Plan, it is that most have not Realized/Recognized it yet.

->It appears to me that it would not be a fall from grace, but a fall into ->experiencing grace.

Is the glass half Empty or half Full ?

->The voice that parrots all others before us. Listen to Sunday morning TV, ->man oh man, Send some bucks and you can receive this sweaty hanky blessed ->by God.

That is it ! Our own Tel-Evangelist Sharnanda. You can offer a sweet hanky blessed by the Retreat Center.

->Who needs it????

Everyone needs the Retreat Center.

->Billy Graham has a large following, every ->Christian in the world goes to his revivals.

His chauffeured limousine is bullet proof too.

º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º

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