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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ March - Page 2 ~
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Subject: Construction- Ram
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:22:19 -0800
Hi Sharlene,
How are you and how is Sandeep?
Shar: I am just great, and Sandeep is healing. The Doctor has him off limits to the keyboard though. He hasn't been able to speak via keyboard as his hands are to sore.
Thanks for your answer. May I offer further comments:
Shar: Of course you can, at any time , without question.
Ram: What is not known....can it become a part of self-discovery/knowing? Do you entertain any such suggestion?
Shar: Self discovery and knowing can not exist as long as we think we know. What we know is something we have been taught to know. You, a teacher of meditation, know that one can not take a full mind into that state. One must leave the mind and enter into the silence. That meditative state, the calming of the mind, is carried into each moment. Each moment becomes new and untainted by the past and by our notions or expectations of a future. The moment can not be experienced for what it is, if the mind is not present within that moment.
Ram: Also Who/What is the enjoyer/experiencer in you that is enjoying so much in spite of all the physical bites of the cold weather?
Shar: The weather has nothing to do with the joy of the moment. The weather is just what it is, the weather, can not be changed, or controlled, so what choice is there but to forget the weather and experience joy in what one does. Plus the fact that - 5 to -10 is absolutely perfect for cross country skiing. So I know that many people are enjoying the weather. In this corner of the country, one can not let the weather stop you from enjoying life or doing things. All over BC is experiencing strange weather for March. Perhaps it has something to do with our provincial government and all it's antics at the moment....LOL Mother Natures way of protesting. Just kidding.
Ram: Since this is not known, are you open to consider it as a part of self-discovery/knowing? Or are you closed (gated) in this arena although the gate is gateless ( as you say)?
Shar: I am not closed to experiencing. I will admit that I am closed off to ingesting belief systems, and yet, not closed to tools for self discovery. One can not project an outcome to any experience. Self discovery is being open to what is.
Ram :How to recall this invisible power within at will and utilize it in day to day activities of life?
Shar: This invisible power, if you like to use that term, is not recalled, but always in existence as what is, when all thoughts, notions, and projections are not brought into the moment with you.
>Shar: It's there within the moment. Nothing else exists except for that moment and what is done within that moment. Thoughts, worries, people, whatever, just are not present in that moment. Without them present, how can I not experience anything other than joy. Ram: Logically sounds good but it may have some bearing to the unknown aspects as highlighted above. Not 100% sure though.
Shar: I suggest one experiences it for oneself. I can not convince you, tell you, or teach you this. You have to experience it. And the only way to do that is to enter the moment bringing nothing with you. If you are familiar with meditation, have you tried the one minute meditation. One calms the mind a minute at a time. I used sticky dots placed in different places ( like in a cupboard, on a door, on a mirror, on my pen) as a reminder to calm the mind, only for a moment. Like anything else it takes practice. It brings the focus back into the moment. And totally confuses anyone walking in and seeing bright red sticky dots all over the house. LOL
Shar:You make the ego smile. It has been said, that being is effortless. Not getting tied into thoughts, claiming them as ours, and just observing is the path to the gateless gate. Where one can walk freely between heaven and earth.Gee, EJ wonder who always said that? lol
Ram: Also would like to know what you really mean by heaven? Is it some somewhere above earth? If so, what is Heaven's address? Does it also mean earth is hell?
Shar: Earth is both heaven and hell. Life is what we make it. Heaven being a term for bliss or happiness in the religious sect. And so for a lack of a better explanation, and everyone relates utopia to the word, it is used as an example of the joy that is experienced within the moment. In the same way as people understand hell as pain and suffering.
Ram: Similarly, I also wonder why gate is first put in the infinity and then gate is removed to make it gateless.....
Shar: Lets use a term "pearly gates of heaven" a belief system put into place and into the minds of men eons ago. People believe that to get into heaven one must pass through the gate. Old St Peter is standing guard with your past record of whether you have been naughty or nice. Well, truth is, there is no gate. There is no path, or method to get you inside that gate. So the path becomes pathless ( no belief) and the gate becomes gateless, and heaven / hell can be experienced where you are standing. One can pass freely from the state of hell into the state of bliss. But this is just my translation of it all.
Ram: In answering to EJ you also mentioned about your teachings. I would love to see them if these teachings are displayed on your site or archived somewhere.
Shar: I have no teachings other than what is displayed on Light Mission. Nothing is mine, nothing is EJ's, what is shared belongs to everyone. Free to those that use them and share them and contribute to them. Without the people, light-mission would not exist. And Light-Mission needs the people of the light to prepare for the up and coming energy of the Kali Yuga.
Sharlene, I am coming from "self-knowing" point of view and not from critique considerations.
Shar: Yes, I feel that.
As such I appreciate your patience with me. I enjoy your posts and your honesty/truth in the expression of your understandings/experiences.
Shar; Thats all I can offer. There is no choice, what you see is what you get. LOL
Thanks for your compliments Sharlene.You are a beautiful gem yourself.
A bow to you,
Subject: what is there to change
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:14:42 -0800
ray,
"True understanding, which is enlightenment, can happen only when there is total effortlessness - in other words, in the utter absence of any comprehender. Then there is only the witnessing of the dream of life without the least desire to change anything." -- Ramesh S. Balsekar
ramesh,
when one witnesses the dream of life who is the dream & who the dreamer?
Darknesse sees the Light but comprehendeath IT Naught...
without the Comprehender how can the twaine ever mesh??? or BE???
& the dream of life & the Dream itself might it be naught more than Innuendo...
"People in the world cannot identify their own mind. They believe that what they see, or hear, or feel, or know, is mind. -' - it is naught... '-They are blocked by the visual, the auditory, the tactile, and the mental, so they cannot see the brilliant spirit of their Original Mind." -- Huang-po - the absence of 'thee' & 'any' comprehender...
"Buddha said, if you want to know the realm of buddhahood, you must make your mind as clear as empty space and leave false thinking and all grasping far behind, causing your mind to be unobstructed wherever it may turn." -- Ta Hui
- even when it turns unto it's self, must i keep it clear & unobstructed so that i am the pond in which the two eyes connect for One vision...
Subject: Thought For Food
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:32:26 GMT
For the Meditative Community:
"True understanding, which is enlightenment, can happen only when there is total effortlessness - in other words, in the utter absence of any comprehender. Then there is only the witnessing of the dream of life without the least desire to change anything." -- Ramesh S. Balsekar
"People in the world cannot identify their own mind. They believe that what they see, or hear, or feel, or know, is mind. They are blocked by the visual, the auditory, the tactile, and the mental, so they cannot see the brilliant spirit of their Original Mind." -- Huang-po
"Buddha said, if you want to know the realm of buddhahood, you must make your mind as clear as empty space and leave false thinking and all grasping far behind, causing your mind to be unobstructed wherever it may turn." -- Ta Hui
Subject: Re: what is there to change
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:14:51 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->when one witnesses the dream of life ->who is the dream & who the dreamer?
In Witnessing/Observing there is neither dream nor dreamer separate from either. In Witnessing/Observing the dreamer is the dream as the dream is the dreamer, thus no "comprehender" nor anything comprehended. All just IS BEing AS it IS. There is only the Witnessing/Observing, and nothing *other*.
->Darknesse sees the Light ->but comprehendeath IT Naught...
What is Darkness but the absence of Light ? What is Light but the absence of Darkness ? What is What-IS but the absence of What-ISNOT ? Thus, what is Witnessing/Observing but the absence of the contents of mind which articulates both the Darkness and the Light ?
->without the Comprehender ->how can the twaine ever mesh??? ->or BE???
When the comprehender IS the comprehended, the Two are again made One.
->& the dream of life & the Dream itself ->might it be naught more than Innuendo...
"In-u-end-o" ? More a Pointer Dear Friend. But do not get the finger stuck in your i {8->
->- even when it turns unto it's self, ->must i keep it clear & unobstructed so that i am the pond in which the two ->eyes connect for One vision...
Only the conditioned contents therein mind feed upon itself. It is but a vicious circle of clutter, always underfoot and thus Causing our Fall. And all the king's horses and all the king's men could never put us back together again. For no one Saves us but ourself, no one can and no one may, others can Point to the Path, but we ourself must Walk the Way. Indeed the uncluttered mind is Free and thus most Calm, thus Clear Vision even without eyes.
Subject: Just A Wondering
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:50:35 GMT
Greetings Community,
Why, if any would care to comment, is it that with all the Wise Sages and all the Wisdom they have offered, that humanity is still very much Sleeping ? Such a resource is at our disposal, and many adhere to the Vital Information therein, yet few are Awakening. Why ?
This is not a *loaded question* nor a *set-up*, so please offer comments {8->
Subject: Re: Self-realization Week
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:13:52 -0500
Dear E.J. and Sharleen,
Thanks a lot for your enlightening messages and comments. I have a special self-realization week once a month starting from to-day. If you would like to send any special messages, pointers and study material that would be greatly appreciated. Of course, I would be ordering one of YogaJyoti's books to-day to contribute to the richness of this week.
Glad to be in touch with you.
Gratefully acknowledging the great work you are doing......Ram
Subject: Re: Just A Wondering
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:05:16 -0500
Hi E.J.
> Why, if any would care to comment, is it that with all the Wise Sages > and all the Wisdom they have offered, that humanity is still very much > Sleeping ? Such a resource is at our disposal, and many adhere to the > Vital Information therein, yet few are Awakening. Why ? > > This is not a *loaded question* nor a *set-up*, so please offer > comments {8->
Here are my comments:
Because of:
1. Difficulties experienced in practising the sages pointers/teachings to become a way of life in the course of time.
2. Lots of material involvements and terribly less detached observatons to see the truth as is and not as it should be according to past conditioning, concepts, notions and attitudes.
3. Continued influence of Kali Yuga (the opposite of Sat Yuga).
That's what I see, however, I am open to suggestions.
Subject: RE: Just A Wondering
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:01:55 -0600
Could the main problem be that we (humanity) have mainly been trying to save our souls and justify ourselves and get to heaven for ourselves? It is a very attached approach, and the attachment to religion for selfish desires is what has kept us from spiritual goals? As long as we think of a self to be saved from what is out there and a heaven that is separate from a hell out there, then we miss the point. As long as we divide into black and white, we miss the greys? Perhaps what we really need is being saved from the concept of needing to be saved. At the heart of the matter, the eternal interbeing of all of us can never be lost, can never fall from grace, can never be anything less than already there at the destination. We could see it clearly if not for all of the religious mind games of fall and atonement, heaven and hell, with some angry deity out there mad at us for whatever our distant ancestors once did. It seems to me that the main message of Siddhartha was that once we see past the saving of the soul and the concept of this angry deity that we are really already there at our destination and we just need to wake up and smell the incense.
Subject: RE: Just A Wondering
From: "Leon Nielsen" <nielsen@hinet.net.au>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:37:25 +1100
Hello Friends,
<< Why, if any would care to comment, is it that with all the Wise Sages and all the Wisdom they have offered, that humanity is still very much Sleeping ? Such a resource is at our disposal, and many adhere to the Vital Information therein, yet few are Awakening. Why ?>>
I have often pondered this question, and whilst I certainly cannot offer THE answer, can offer some observations.
We are certainly here in this place at this time for a purpose. The fact that exposed to some of the difficulties and challenges of life, some of us awaken and others remain asleep can be no coincidence. We are all offered "the gaps", yet some will go through incredible loops to avoid the opportunities.
This might be a challenging proposition, but could it be that the very purpose of this place is to be and remain a place of turbulence and pain. In such a place there would need to be many many souls asleep in order to maintain the chaos. A testing and learning place where by definition great effort is needed to waken.
Subject: Re: Just A Wondering
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:16:17 GMT
Greetings Leon, you wrote: ->I have often pondered this question, and whilst I certainly cannot offer THE ->answer, can offer some observations. -> ->We are certainly here in this place at this time for a purpose. The fact ->that exposed to some of the difficulties and challenges of life, some of us ->awaken and others remain asleep can be no coincidence. We are all offered ->"the gaps", yet some will go through incredible loops to avoid the ->opportunities. -> ->This might be a challenging proposition, but could it be that the very ->purpose of this place is to be and remain a place of turbulence and pain. ->In such a place there would need to be many many souls asleep in order to ->maintain the chaos. A testing and learning place where by definition great ->effort is needed to waken.
Thank you for joining in. And thank you for this offering. So the phenomenal realm is but a purgatory of sorts, a "testing and learning" grounds for Awakening. Awaken to what ? Awaken from what ? Why is it not working ? Why are we not passing the tests nor learning whatever it is we must learn ? Why do we avoid the Dance ?
Subject: Re: Just A Wondering
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:57:37 GMT
Greetings Ram, you wrote: ->Because of: -> ->1. Difficulties experienced in practising the sages pointers/teachings to ->become a way of life in the course of time. -> ->2. Lots of material involvements and terribly less detached observatons to ->see the truth as is and not as it should be according to past conditioning, ->concepts, notions and attitudes. -> ->3. Continued influence of Kali Yuga (the opposite of Sat Yuga). -> ->That's what I see, however, I am open to suggestions.
*Deep Bow* Thank you for this offering. I would only add that though these three items are indeed part of the problem, they are not the total problem so it is hoped that others in the Community will add to this Wonderful list you have started. My question was intended to generate as much input into the problem of "Why" greater humanity is still Sleeping so we can use a compiled data base to Truly Observe ourself. The "Why" is about Self-Observation or Self-Realization and thus all input is good regardless of the particular *slant*. Thank you for starting this off Dear Friend.
Come on Community, Ram is going to think there are only four or five of us in this Community {8->
Subject: Re: Just A Wondering
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:52:37 GMT
Greetings Thomas,you wrote: ->Could the main problem be that we (humanity) have mainly been trying to save ->our souls and justify ourselves and get to heaven for ourselves? It is a ->very attached approach, and the attachment to religion for selfish desires ->is what has kept us from spiritual goals? As long as we think of a self to ->be saved from what is out there and a heaven that is separate from a hell ->out there, then we miss the point. As long as we divide into black and ->white, we miss the greys? Perhaps what we really need is being saved from ->the concept of needing to be saved. At the heart of the matter, the eternal ->interbeing of all of us can never be lost, can never fall from grace, can ->never be anything less than already there at the destination. We could see ->it clearly if not for all of the religious mind games of fall and atonement, ->heaven and hell, with some angry deity out there mad at us for whatever our ->distant ancestors once did. It seems to me that the main message of ->Siddhartha was that once we see past the saving of the soul and the concept ->of this angry deity that we are really already there at our destination and ->we just need to wake up and smell the incense.
*Deep Bow* So it is attachments to this and that of a phenomenal nature that Veils our Realization/Recognition of the Fact that we are already Awakening. Taking it a step further, Why the attachments ? Why this seeming need for Salvation and the seeming need to get to Heaven ? Why the "religious mind games" ? After many thousands of years, have these attachments and seeming needs and games borne out the end of war and conflict and greed and corruption and Suffering ? Why do we keep shooting ourself in the foot ? Masochists ?
Subject: Re: Just A Wondering
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:17:53 -0500
Hi E.J.
> My question was intended to generate as > much input into the problem of "Why" greater humanity is still Sleeping so > we can use a compiled data base to Truly Observe ourself. The "Why" is > about Self-Observation or Self-Realization and thus all input is good > regardless of the particular *slant*.
*Deep Bow* to you too E.J. Now that I am more clear about the data base you wish to compile, may I add a few more to the original list of three reasons I submitted earlier:
4. Lack of clarity... What self-realization/God-realization is about. There is more of varied religious emphasis than the realization of the core the "Eternal Truth" and to be established in that modus operandi.
5. People find "Let Go" extremely difficult to truly incorporate it in real work style of day to day affairs. As a result toxins such as attachments, fears, greed and conditioned notions continue to stall the progress of awakening.
6. People let themselves easily slip into the past history and the future dreams rather than living and enjoying the present moment. The secret of Present Moment Presence (PMP) to understanding and enjoying life is not adequately utilized in day to day living of life.
7. The modern society is used to quick fixes and logical conclusions. Want to see results real fast and see them right in front of them. The process of self-realization/God-realization is slow, spontaneous and beyond logic. Although this gap is a barrier, however, slow and steady progress is encouraging in many ways.
Subject: Re: Just A Wondering
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:45:22 GMT
Greetings Ram, you wrote: ->*Deep Bow* to you too E.J. Now that I am more clear about the data base you ->wish to compile, may I add a few more to the original list of three reasons ->I submitted earlier: -> ->4. Lack of clarity... What self-realization/God-realization is about. There ->is more of varied religious emphasis than the realization of the core the ->"Eternal Truth" and to be established in that modus operandi. -> ->5. People find "Let Go" extremely difficult to truly incorporate it in real ->work style of day to day affairs. As a result toxins such as attachments, ->fears, greed and conditioned notions continue to stall the progress of ->awakening. -> ->6. People let themselves easily slip into the past history and the future ->dreams rather than living and enjoying the present moment. The secret of ->Present Moment Presence (PMP) to understanding and enjoying life is not ->adequately utilized in day to day living of life. -> ->7. The modern society is used to quick fixes and logical conclusions. Want ->to see results real fast and see them right in front of them. The process of ->self-realization/God-realization is slow, spontaneous and beyond logic. ->Although this gap is a barrier, however, slow and steady progress is ->encouraging in many ways.
More input, and even better than the first three you offered yet all *hit the mark*. If these and those others offered here from Thomas and Leon and hopefully more to come by others, can be articulated as shortcomings, Why do most continue to cling to them ? When we know we have a stick in hand, and that we are beating ourself with the stick, and that we do not find the pain of such beating pleasant, Why do we not *Drop The Stick* ? Masochists ? Many Talk the Talk, Why do so very few Walk the Walk ? Just seeing the Causes of our Suffering does not end the Suffering, so Why is clinging to the Causes worth the Suffering ?
Subject: Re: Construction
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:58:55 +0100
Ahhhh dear E.J.... the jewel in the crown ;-) with love W:)
Subject: Re: Construction
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:55:34 +0100
Dear Shar:) So this is where you were of late. How's the building going? I loved the way you wrote this post. Loved the style, ever considering writing? Seriously this is good stuff. K.R. W:)
Subject: Re: ho ho
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:51:14 +0100
Dear Shar:), E.J. and others...
I liked this one :-) - heading for a lot of that stuff myself, come April, other than that - good now. - tidying up my life (= junk) and not behind the keyboard. I'll return in a wee while. Just read the posts here for the first time in a long while. I am sorry therefore that I hadn't noticed things had gone awry -but glad that things have been sorted out. Kindest regards, W:)
Subject: Test
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:02:39 -0800
Good morning everyone.
Testing to see if this is working. Had a major virus that ate everything on my computer in about 15 minutes. I sat and watched things disappear rather quickly. It sneaks in and eats the virus scanner program first, then to Zone Alarm. Cute hey? So couldn't even tell you what one it was. Taken me four days to get things to work again. 2 days of safe mode, then to installing. Mind you been working 12 hours days as well. Got things basically working then called the home repair guy to come and fine tune things up. So it took him only a couple of minutes and here I am. Well, I think, here I am, and will be here if this goes through. lol
Subject: Re: Test
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:50:12 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Testing to see if this is working.
Not sure. Testing the *send* button ? Testing the Community address ? As far as can be told they are working, but I guess you would have to send a message to find out. Let us know what you find out.
->Had a major virus that ate everything on my computer in about 15 minutes. I ->sat and watched things disappear rather quickly.
Hungry devil. How could you work your computer if everything on it was eaten ? When you eat something, does it not sort of disappear ? You are confusing this morning.
->It sneaks in and eats the virus scanner program first, then to Zone Alarm. ->Cute hey?
Pesky varmints. But all seriousness aside, *Why* do people go to such lengths to antagonize another. And much more predominant than ever before. This is a sign of increased spirituality of the planet, as many would like us to believe ? Or just another indicator of the Kali Yuga emergence ? A sad commentary on humanity's state (conditioned condition). We have come a long way since we first washed up on shore, and have reeked havoc in the wake of our path. Sadly, it has been a Left-Hand Path. And we best get to the Fork in the Road and veer our Direction off to the Right Soon, because that Light we see at the End of the Tunnel is a Train.
Subject: Re: Test
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:57:19 -0800
>Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: >->Testing to see if this is working.
Ya, I know, we always end up saying the obvious. LOL.
> Not sure. Testing the *send* button ? Testing the Community >address ? As far as can be told they are working, but I guess you would >have to send a message to find out. Let us know what you find out.
I sent things yesterday or tried, it said, not local, and other messages, so couldn't figure out what the trouble was. I guess nothing that the ten thousandth reboot didn't cure.
> Hungry devil. How could you work your computer if everything on it >was eaten ? When you eat something, does it not sort of disappear ? You >are confusing this morning.
I have never seen such speed. Man, something was there, then it wasn't. And still isn't for most things. lol This upgrading stuff again to newer driver etc, is time consuming. And taxes the brain. Pretty soon though I should be good at this stuff. Came to the conclusion that a computer is like life. Don't get attached to anything.
> Pesky varmints. But all seriousness aside, *Why* do people go to >such lengths to antagonize another.
Because they can. If someone can invent a program, there is always someone that can crack it.
> And much more predominant than ever >before.
IT's true. Now there is a new warning out about a Japanese worm.
> This is a sign of increased spirituality of the planet, as many >would like us to believe ?
Spirituality is just words anyway. An illusion like so many other belief systems. There is no such thing as spirituality, when one wakes up, there is no one to be spiritual or too even recognize such a thing. Like those who say they are enlightened. When we do become enlightened, we don't even think about it or recognize ourselves as such. It is only when we are on the pathless path, that enlightenment exists, as a quest in name only.
> Or just another indicator of the Kali Yuga >emergence ?
It's so true. and yet, very interesting to watch.
>A sad commentary on humanity's state (conditioned condition).
Ah, or is that sigh.........
>We have come a long way since we first washed up on shore, and have reeked >havoc in the wake of our path.
Yes, I was a giant turtle.
> Sadly, it has been a Left-Hand Path.
I see.
>And >we best get to the Fork in the Road and veer our Direction off to the Right
Thats the way I walk in the bush, always turn right and come out back to the road. lol
>Soon, because that Light we see at the End of the Tunnel is a Train.
Can we hitch a ride?
So now it's bath time and rest period before bed. Long days but beautiful watching the water tumble down the mountains in little waterfalls lined with icicles and frosty snow. The ice glistens in the sunshine. Beautiful country in which I live.
Subject: Re: Just A Wondering
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:42:13 GMT
Greetings Community,
->Why is clinging to the Causes worth the Suffering ?
Why do we Lie to ourself ? Is it that we do not know any better ? Or is it that we Fear such Understanding ? Fear that Truth/Reality will render our life faulty and little more than a cruel jest ? The problem is simply a misconception that letting go of the Illusion is the end of life. Indeed an end to life as we are conditioned to know it, but actually the beginning of Real Life. People have this strange idea that the world is Flat, and if they let go of the Chain that Binds them to their conditioned notions that they will Fall off the edge. And no amount of words or pretty verbal pictures will convince them to take a chance and let go to see for themselves. The only way to find out for sure is to simply "Just Do It", and see. So they Rationalize their position and even substitute their Illusion with another Illusion to fortify the Lie. The new Illusion is better to them because it is the Illusion that they did let go and are awakening. Is one Illusion better than another Illusion ? An Illusion is an Illusion, by any other name is still an Illusion. Is one Lie any better than another Lie ? A Lie is a Lie, by any other name is still a Lie. Fear ? Fear of our Shadow ? What is your greatest Fear ? That the Lie is a Lie ?
Is Immortality the clinging to mortality ? Is Infinity the clinging to the finite ? Is Truth the clinging to the Lie ? Is Reality the clinging to Illusion ? Is NonDuality the clinging to Duality ? Is Awakening the clinging to Sleep ? Are you ? Who is ?
Subject: kasting aside & knitting the karpenter's hide
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:21:50 -0800
a little sel-fishness, yes?
to be raised, in the 'formative' years with One language & then to learn an Other... this is the most eggsquitsite of all gladhands & torments...
imagine imaging every word u hear & then marking it with ur Sole & ur Selph...
& seven years later having to 're-image' every word so that ur own internal language becums kubist... where the piktures are so wild & konfused that u need to paint them anywaze becuz the 'darknesse' needs a noize to awaken...
to be 'taken' from One language then to be married to an Other...
this is a 'divorce' of the 'unseen kind'... or the 'unkind seen'...
i had alwaze thought that the interests of the Childe wuz of paramount importance... -sektion 15 of the family relations act...
so much for words...
naked & eyeless on the gaza-ing strip, i am & remane,
the karpenter bekum butcher of the emerald Okay,
folker phone eberbach am neckar
Subject: Re: kasting aside & knitting the karpenter's hide
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:37:45 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->to be raised, in the 'formative' years with One language & then to learn an ->Other... this is the most eggsquitsite of all gladhands & torments...
Yet, if we learned the Correct Language in the first place we would not have to Learn another. But friends and family and associates at large, in their well intentioned way, try to help us establish ourself as *one of them*. As they have been taught by their friends and family and associates at large.
->imagine imaging every word u hear & then marking it with ur Sole & ur ->Selph...
Sounds to be quite the task. Yet, un-learning a faulty Language can be an arduous and at times Painful undertaking. Rely more on the Heart than the Head and it may be a bit easier. Not the conditioned/emotion heart, but the Heart of Understanding/Awakening.
->& seven years later having to 're-image' every word ->so that ur own internal language becums kubist...
You wait to long Dear Friend, Cleanse/Purge each ever Present Moment. In thus doing, you make the cyclic rejuvenation of the form that much Clearer as well. Never put off until tomorrow what you should be doing NOW.
->where the piktures are so wild & konfused ->that u need to paint them anywaze ->becuz the 'darknesse' needs a noize to awaken...
Ah indeed, no one Saves us but ourself, no one can and no one may, others can Point to the Path, but we ourself must Walk the Way.
->to be 'taken' from One language ->then to be married to an Other...
Ah but this Marriage is of Heaven and Hell, thus will always end up in upheaval and Divorce or Submission. A Tormenting Engagement that continues the Suffering. Such a Marriage is doomed from the start, unless of course the goal is programmed controlled manipulated robotics. There can be no Union with such a Couple, there can only be the Surface Coexistence. And the Provider of the Vows is none other than the Grand Trickster. Let go of the conditioned contents in mind and go it Alone Dear Friend, you will find the Language more Awakening. For the Language of Awakening is not in the words but in the space between them.
->this is a 'divorce' of the 'unseen kind'... ->or the 'unkind seen'...
It is the Marriage that is faulty, as such Marriage should never have been in the first place.
->i had alwaze thought that the interests of the Childe ->wuz of paramount importance... ->-sektion 15 of the family relations act...
Indeed, until the Child is *helped* by friends and family and associates at large to Learn their Language, to be Engaged in such UnHoly Marriage, the Child Understands the Correct Language and Totally Free of the conditioned/programmed/controlled/manipulated Marriage. Free to BE the Language of Awakening. Quite the Guru, the new born, but the arrogance of adults will not let them consider it's Teachings.
->so much for words...
*Deep Bow*
->naked & eyeless on the gaza-ing strip, i am & remane,
Hopefully not on the tarmac, as the Plane coming in may run you over. Then, out in the bush may lead to an encounter with a Bear. But, at home you face the Grand Trickster. Only where you ARE will you find a Sage.
->the karpenter ->bekum butcher of the emerald Okay,
Perhaps it is the Identity and not the actual Becoming. *Who* is the Slayer ?
Subject: One day of kindness and compassion
From: "Leon Nielsen" <nielsen@hinet.net.au>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:38:52 +1100
Hello Community
Share with me one moment of idealistic thought.
Imagine if all of mankind were to agree for ONE DAY ONLY, to deal with every event and human contact only with kindness and compassion.
What would become of this world?
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: "Louise Jobin" <jobin@jobin.mv.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:47:28 -0500
I would join with you in bringing to light this wish to share only love for one day... Already the smile warms my heart...
Froggy
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:21:57 GMT
Greetings Leon, you wrote: ->Share with me one moment of idealistic thought. -> ->Imagine if all of mankind were to agree for ONE DAY ONLY, to deal with every ->event and human contact only with kindness and compassion. -> ->What would become of this world?
Commendable Dear Friend. But why "imagine" ? Why not simply "Just Do It !" Any Journey starts with the first step, thus we must BE that "Kindness and Compassion" -- not only for a "day" but rather Eternally, as the Present Moment IS. Can you BE "Kindness and Compassion" all the time every day ? Only when the conditioned contents in mind are let go is it possible, otherwise it is just *wishful thinking*. Even a *Random Act of Kindness/Compassion* is a most refreshing sight these days. Imagine not, rather BE. Who knows, it might catch on {8->
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:49:21 -0800
Hello Community
Hello Leon, you wrote: Share with me one moment of idealistic thought.
Shar: Ah so, yes, let's share, but not thought. Thoughts make my head hurt.
Imagine if all of mankind were to agree for ONE DAY ONLY, to deal with every event and human contact only with kindness and compassion. What would become of this world?
Shar: It would be like Christmas, everyday, just cheaper. lol
Froggy: I would join with you in bringing to light this wish to share only love for one day... Already the smile warms my heart...
Shar: Hey, we love Froggies around here. Glad you joined us. We do eat frog legs you know, be warned. lol
EJ: > Even a *Random Act of >Kindness/Compassion* is a most refreshing sight these days. Imagine not, >rather BE. Who knows, it might catch on {8->
Shar: Random acts of kindness, I could go on about this one, the total look of surprise on people's faces when one does something nice for a stranger. One can get a story out of anyone standing in line, or a clerk behind a counter, with just a smile or a compliment about how nice they look. Doesn't take much to share a smile.
Glad to see some action around here lately. lol
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:11:39 -0500
Hi E.J., Leon and Louise,
I would agree that practical giving of kindness and compassion is the most rewarding experience. It can happen in giving ways like:
Enjoying the fulfilment of Selfless Service
Sharing is giving or passing on what you have, to some one else; strictly with a view to help him or her and not expecting any thing in return. It is done purely in a voluntary spirit. There are three objectives of sharing and these are as follows:
1. To identify that unique aspect of your life which you enjoy the most. When you get busy with that, you lose complete sense of time. Doing something, which you really enjoy is an experience of freedom in itself.
2. Check with your silence, how you can blend your joyful aspect of life, as identified above, with an inner passion of sharing with others; preferably in a selfless way.
3. Make plans and render that service professionally to the community on an ongoing basis. Enjoy the fulfilment and appreciate these wonderful opportunities of serving others. Keep this process going infinitely and this will put you in touch with the Truth as it is..
Enjoying the magic of Unconditional Love
Its presence is a blissful magic; and its absence is a deprivation of life's profoundness. What is it? It is unconditional love! Your openness to giving and receiving love; free from any conditions attached, can do just wonders for you. It can give you an ecstatic experience of united celebration. This is also the beginning of the process of self-expansion into oneness with the universal energy. Allow it to happen to you!
Love is kindness; it is our true nature. It is unconditional. Loving and being loved is an important ingredient of our life. It is natural to love and be loved. Without receiving and giving of love, life becomes hollow, dry, boring and superfluous. Every one has experienced love to some degree; although some may have experienced more and others may have experienced less. It is showing an act of compassion towards the other person by accepting him/her as he/she is. Approaching the other person from heart is loving. Being open to other's viewpoints is an expression of love to the other person. Similarly being patient to the other person is a unique way of showing love to the other person. By being in peace and harmony is showing love for self and others. An experience of peace is an experience of love. When connected within, a person feels love not only for self but also every one else a person is interacting with. No matter where the other person is coming from, being kind and cool; with kids for example, is mother's way of expressing her love for them. Even though kids may be rough, the mother in that mode deals with the situation in a loving mode rather than a reactive mode.
Subject: RE: Just A Wondering
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:59:39 -0600
The funny part is that the Lie is a fire. A controlled fire. It continues to burn because we keep bringing fuel. We tend to the fire. We build communities that revolve around the fire. If we stopped fueling it, it goes out. Then we get scared that the fire went out, and we relight it.
We think we have a stake in what's out there, in the food being cooked on the fire, as if we somehow need the fire. We keep checking back on the fire, to make sure it is still lit. It consumes our attention, our will, our directives. We are slaves of the fire.
Every so often as we take the mindless trek to gather wood to offer to the fire god, we consider that we could just go and sit on the beach instead and forget about the fire. Then the person next to us shouts, "Are you crazy, man--tend to the fire!"
Subject: Re: Just A Wondering
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:38:34 GMT
Greetings Thomas, you wrote: ->The funny part is that the Lie is a fire. ->A controlled fire. ->It continues to burn because we keep bringing fuel. ->We tend to the fire. ->We build communities that revolve around the fire. ->If we stopped fueling it, it goes out. ->Then we get scared that the fire went out, ->and we relight it. -> ->We think we have a stake in what's out there, ->in the food being cooked on the fire, ->as if we somehow need the fire. ->We keep checking back on the fire, ->to make sure it is still lit. ->It consumes our attention, our will, our directives. ->We are slaves of the fire. -> ->Every so often as we take the mindless trek ->to gather wood to offer to the fire god, ->we consider that we could just go and sit on the beach instead ->and forget about the fire. ->Then the person next to us shouts, ->"Are you crazy, man--tend to the fire!"
*Deep Bow* Supremely Good analogy Dear Friend ! *Why* do we not simply tell the "person next to us", "Are you crazy, man--STUFF IT !" {8-> Or perhaps, "what fire ?" For when there is no "fire" there is little need to tend it. When they *think* there is a "fire", have at it because it keeps the shrinks in business.
Subject: RE: One day of kindness and compassion
From: "Leon Nielsen" <nielsen@hinet.net.au>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:34:34 +1100
Greetings EJ
I wrote ->Share with me one moment of idealistic thought. -> ->Imagine if all of mankind were to agree for ONE DAY ONLY, to deal with every ->event and human contact only with kindness and compassion. -> ->What would become of this world?
EJ < But why "imagine" ? Why not simply "Just Do It !" Imagine not, rather BE.>
If my original email suggested that imagining excludes or replaces "doing", forgive me. That was not my intended meaning. Nevertheless it solicited a response which I find interesting and would like to discuss. Imagination is like a bright star in our children, and sadly fades under the pressure of our conditioning "Now don't be silly" adult talk, the influence of TV and many other factors. Basically the lights go out. I feel very sad about that. Surely doing is impossible without imagining. How can we be sensitive if we cannot imagine the pain another is suffering. How can we be creative if we cannot imagine How can we reach that place of quiet if we cannot imagine it as a possibility How can we become unconditioned if we cannot imagine being unconditioned. How could we ever achieve any development without imagination. What we can't imagine - we can't do
Long live imagination. Hope to hear some other views on this.
Subject: RE: One day of kindness and compassion
From: "Leon Nielsen" <nielsen@hinet.net.au>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:04:26 +1100
Hi Shar
Must be great to have such wisdom
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:42:29 -0800
Hi Leon, > If my original email suggested that imagining excludes or replaces "doing", > forgive me. That was not my intended meaning.
Is there such a thing as forgiveness? Is it not just a way we place responsibility upon another for our own actions? Would like to hear responses on that. LOL
> Surely doing is impossible without imagining.
In doing, there is no imagining. Imaging comes before the doing. Sometimes.
> How can we be sensitive if we cannot imagine the pain another is suffering.
Pain has no memory. What we do is feel anothers pain, empathy, then through compassion, we offer our help if we can.
> How can we be creative if we cannot imagine
It is in the silence of non thought, that creative juices flow.
> How can we reach that place of quiet if we cannot imagine it as a > possibility
Quiet is beyond imagination. It happens when there is no imaging.
> How can we become unconditioned if we cannot imagine being unconditioned.
We know we can be in a state where there are no conditions. Can we imagine something we haven't yet experienced? All we can do is guess. If we imagine it we put expectations on it, beliefs about it, and with those we are not unconditioned.
> How could we ever achieve any development without imagination. > What we can't imagine - we can't do
When we just do, we can do things we could never imagine ourselves doing.
> Long live imagination. Hope to hear some other views on this.
When you imagine yourself a elephant, let me know, I want to watch. lol > > With love from Leon
Just a couple of thoughts from me, what say you?
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 03:46:03 GMT
Greetings Leon, you wrote: ->Imagination is like a bright star in our children, and sadly fades under the ->pressure of our conditioning "Now don't be silly" adult talk, the influence ->of TV and many other factors. Basically the lights go out. I feel very sad ->about that.
First, do not mistake the True Nature's natural urge of Expression with mind bound imagination. For the child is not imagining but rather the child's True Nature is Expressing itself as best it can, it is just that us Blind adults *think* they are as trapped in the mind as we are so we call it imagination. THAT is also sad. And yes, the Unencumbered Expressing True Nature is covered up with all the conditioned contents well meaning friends and family and associates at large hand the child to carry around. Making Slaves of our children having them carry around all that Baggage. Another form of child abuse. Oddly those who are trapped in the head, *thinking* that from day one we start off with all that Baggage, *think* the child operates via mental processes. Saint Francis of Assisi said, "give me your child for the first two years of it's life, and the child will be mine for the rest of it's life". Francis knew of the awesome power of conditioning/programming the mind for control/manipulation of the thinking and behavior of the person. And in our advanced technological and intellectual age, we have become quite stupid. As we only listen to what we want to hear. So the Real Sad thing is that we adults used to be those Unencumbered children Expressing our True Nature. And have been conditioned not to notice that little Fact.
->Surely doing is impossible without imagining.
*Roaring Laughter* The only associating factor between "doing" and "imagining" is that both are quite *mental*, thus quite Dualistic. In this way, the "doing" could be indeed the phenomenal expression of "imagining", though one can imagine without carrying through with an action (doing). "Doing" is the notion that someone has something to do. "Imagining" is the notion that someone has something to imagine. When there is no one to *do* nor anyone to *imagine* then there is no "doing" nor "imagining". So when we let go of the conditioned contents we harbor in mind, our True Nature Expresses the marvels most wonder at, and *think* it is imagination. And via that Unencumbered Expressing True Nature everything needing done gets done, and nare a Keebler Elf to be found.
->How can we be sensitive if we cannot imagine the pain another is suffering.
Do you mean *sympathetic* ? Another conditioned notion that is also a mental contrivance to control/manipulate our thinking and behavior. For the only way one can Truly Understand another's Pain is IF one Suffers such Pain or has Suffered such Pain. The only way one can Truly Understand another's Suffering is IF one is Suffering or has Suffered. It is called *Empathy*, it is called *Compassion*, and both are the Unencumbered Expression of one's True Nature. Though most fool themselves by *thinking* that even Empathy and Compassion are products of the contents they harbor in their head.
->How can we be creative if we cannot imagine
By giving up the contents of your mind, and All Creation is not only Understood but also aided. Sleeping we *think* we are creators yet we creators are the one who are Destroying Creation.
->How can we reach that place of quiet if we cannot imagine it as a ->possibility
And oxymoron: quiet imagination, silent thoughts. One can not be Quiet/Silent/Still when one is in one's head.
->How can we become unconditioned if we cannot imagine being unconditioned.
Imagine not, BE, simply BE.
->How could we ever achieve any development without imagination.
Development of what ? More conditionings, more programs, more mental prisons ?
->What we can't imagine - we can't do
What one can not imagine is what one can BE.
->Long live imagination.
I read that once in the Grand Trickster's Handbook, way down at the bottom of the very last page in very fine print under the heading of *Mind Control*.
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:54:59 -0500
Greetings Leon,
Imagination is an infinite creation of mind. There are infinite things and infinite possibilities in imagination. However, those things and possibilities would need to be brought in the silence.Then listen to the silence what it is saying in terms of putting some or all of them into action (or no action...in that case inaction is also action)) and how and when to go about them. In that sense, imagination (of some sort) precedes action. The point here, as I see it , is not just imagine but also listen to do what silence prompts to do with that imagination. It is the doing that makes a difference.
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:51:53 GMT
Greetings Ram, you wrote: ->Imagination is an infinite creation of mind. There are infinite things and ->infinite possibilities in imagination. However, those things and ->possibilities would need to be brought in the silence.
Silence is Silence Dear Friend, which means Nothing, which means No-thing, which means no arising mental contents whether self-arising or "brought in". The Moment that anything arises there is no more Silence, for there is True Silence only when there is nothing to self-arise (contents of mind Emptied) and nothing to be initiated to arise (nothing brought in) and no one to do the initiating. The contents we harbor mentally fool us, *thinking* that there can be Silence right along with the contents. Seekers these days do not want to accept the arduous Painful undertaking of getting rid of their conditioned notions, thus such so called Seeking is nothing more than a Mask to hide the Fact that they are conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons. Thus there is no True Silence, but rather the Illusion of silence manipulated at the whim of the Grand Trickster. It is saddening to see such Operant Potentiality wasted on the Grand Illusion.
->Then listen to the ->silence what it is saying in terms of putting some or all of them into ->action (or no action...in that case inaction is also action)) and how and ->when to go about them.
When there is only the Illusion of silence, what we listen to is our contents of mind. The projections of our own deluded conditioned notions.
->In that sense, imagination (of some sort) precedes ->action. The point here, as I see it , is not just imagine but also listen to ->do what silence prompts to do with that imagination. It is the doing that ->makes a difference.
True Listening to True Silence is likened to being on the loneliest of mountains on the quietest of nights with no sounds of nature stirring, knowing full well that there is a lion motionlessly awaiting to lunge at you. You feel it's presence, you even feel it's eyes upon you. And though you are busy with tasks at hand you are Totally Single-pointedly Mindfully Alert for any Potential occurrence so as to Respond at any given Moment. Listening to Operant Potential, Listening to Nothing, Listening to Silence. Thus True Listening, as True Silence, is via one's BEing and not via one's ears or one's mind. So it is BEing Listening/Silence rather than thinking it or hearing it. A cursory look at martial arts shows us this.
The one factor that is always avoided though sometimes Talked about is the conditioned contents we harbor in the Attic. As long as that Clutter is still in the Attic, it is all a Spiritual Game to *think* we are Saved or being Saved. And Games are abundant these days, one to suit any conditioned notion. When one gets Real Serious, one puts away the Game Board and starts Cleaning House. Reminds me of a little tale where a Master was bugged to no end by a person who wanted to be Enlightened. Day after day the guy would go to the Master begging and pleading to take him on as a student and help him be Enlightened. Finally one day the Master jumped up from his full lotus meditation position and grabbed the guy by the neck and drug him over to a nearby stream and held his head under water. The guy was fighting to get his head above water but soon lost strength and went limp. The Master raised the fellow's head above the water, and noticing this he gasped for air and finally regained consciousness. The Master asked, "when your head was under the water what did you want most ?" The guy answered, "AIR !" The Master said, "when you want Enlightenment even more than you wanted that air, come back to see me." That is, the Price for Awakening is Everything you *think*, Everything you are conditioned, all the contents of mind. And when one is not willing to Pay that Price, the Game Plays on.........
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:35:29 -0500
Hi EJ,
I see your comments regarding imagination and feel that you are coming from an "idealist" position. However, we have to deal with thoughts/imagination all the time.Rising of thoughts/imagination is natural to us and beyond our control. Should we then use whatever self-control we have to deal with lots of things that are beyond our control e.g. situations, thoughts, feelings/emotions? So how do we respond to imagination/thoughts in living of life? Here is a suggestion for your comments please:
"Sit comfortably, close your eyes to observe your thoughts. Thoughts that stimulate you recalling your joys entertain them all. Thoughts that disturb you leaking your energy bypass them all. Observe this process is doing you a favor so great. Your power is returning and you are beginning to exuberate."
Would like to have some input from other members too.
Subject: thoughts and imagination
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:40:56 -0600
What bugs me about thoughts and imagination is that you have all of these ideas zooming around you, each wanting attention, each demanding that you take concentration and energy in making sure their objectives are met. You think you really want stuff, but it comes down to you looked at some pretty commercial on television that was designed to make you want stuff. You really don't want the stuff. Where did that thought come from? You imagine what if you could meet some beautiful person, and you dream of how wonderful it could be to experience such beauty. You imagine a different job. You imagine more money. You plan and scheme and dream and become obsessed with all of these thoughts and imagination and all of these demand volition. If you could just imagine touching whatever it is that becomes this object in your mind, then you sense it, and then every time you sense it or think about it, you crave it. It becomes an addiction. From food to entertainment to materialism to religion to sex to titles--all of these seemingly innocent thoughts arise. But they are not from you, they are not who you are, they are baggage. Even the habits and language and religion and customs and tastes in food--all imposed on your experience by the culture you grew up in. All of this is like a sky full of dark storm clouds, dripping and forming flashes of light and winds of forcing one's will on some world out there. Stop the thoughts and breathe, just as an experiment. Stop imagining and start witnessing reality. Then it is like a clear blue sky emptied of all of the storm clouds that demand attention, clear enough to see your true self that has nothing to do with wanting the stuff on the television set. You were just trapped in the box again! O well.
Subject: Re: One day of kindness and compassion
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:15:08 GMT
Greetings Ram, you wrote: ->I see your comments regarding imagination and feel that you are coming from ->an "idealist" position.
As it has been called {8-> Or even "dreamer" {8-> Closer might be "altruist", yet none are actually accurate. Actually simply a feeble attempt to Point to Truth/Reality, with all the phenomenal encumbrances. Yet with the Eyes to See, with the Ears to Hear, one can See/Hear.
->However, we have to deal with thoughts/imagination ->all the time.
Why "deal" with mental constructs ? Why "deal" with Illusions ? Seems to be a futile task, in that it does not relieve the Suffering nor overcomes the greed/corruption nor ends the wars/conflicts. This *dealing with* only lends to frustration and more of what we hope to solve. It is not that it is *broken* and we have to *fix* it, it is that it is Illusion so no need to bother with it. The very acknowledgement that "thoughts/imagination" is a viable route to Salvation/Awakening is a Cause preventing us from Awakening. As long as we stay imprisoned in our head the only thing that will be solved is our familiarity with our created world. Legends in our own mind. When the mind is Empty there is nothing to "deal" with, and actually no one to "deal" with it. The Dualistic conditioned notion that there is something to "deal" with lends to the Identity of someone to "deal" with it. This Separation is what Jesus meant to *let go* when he said, "when the Two are gain made One you will Understand". There can not BE One as long as there is Two, simple mathematics.
->Rising of thoughts/imagination is natural to us and beyond our ->control.
Sleeping conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons, this is True. Awakening there is only Present Moment Presence and nothing more. Walking the Walk is far afield of Talking the Talk.
->Should we then use whatever self-control we have to deal with lots ->of things that are beyond our control e.g. situations, thoughts, ->feelings/emotions? So how do we respond to imagination/thoughts in living of ->life?
"Self-control" ? Another term for *repression/suppression*. Sleeping there is "self-control" because the self needs controlling, but Awakening is quite spontaneous/instantaneous AS the ever anew Present Moment thus nothing to control nor anyone to control it. So everything and nothing is beyond our control. It is not a matter of controlling something but rather Realizing/Recognizing that there is nothing to control. The contents we cling to establish and thus facilitate control, so without the contents there is no control nor controlling. "Situations, thoughts, feelings/emotions" are but phenomenal projections of the Illusion we call reality, as such notions are not Present AS the Present Moment. As long as we stay mind-bound we stay imprisoned in our own self-made Illusion. Is an Illusion worthy of a response ? Other than rolling one's eyes and continue Observing/Witnessing ?
->Here is a suggestion for your comments please: ->"Sit comfortably, close your eyes to observe your thoughts.
Yes, Observe/Witness as they drift away as they arose paying them no attention thus not giving them validity.
->Thoughts that stimulate you recalling your joys entertain them all.
Thus giving them our very Life Force.
->Thoughts that disturb you leaking your energy bypass them all.
All thoughts drain one of their Vitality thus not worthy of attention.
->Observe this process is doing you a favor so great.
If you refer here to the two prior sentences of your poem, the seeming greatness is but an Illusion. For even the act of Judging disturbing/non-disturbing thoughts is a distraction in itself. A distraction from the Silence/Stillness which is inherent in Emptiness.
->Your power is returning and you are beginning to exuberate."
Who is it we are trying to convince ? Ourself ? An elaborate Band-Aid that has of yet produced Selflessness, Empathy, Compassion, the end to war and greed and corruption and conflict and Suffering.
Do not get me wrong, the *positive thinking* genre is most honorable for a quick fix for an immediate problem. But is not as lasting as we would like to think. So after the quick fix we must take the next step, which is rectifying the conditioned condition by letting it go. We Forget that there is that next step, thus stay stuck in the quick fix mode clinging ever so tightly to our conditioned notions. And try to mix the mental with the non-mental and call it enlightenment. In our Folly we *think* we *know better* than the Wise Sages who have been for thousands of years Pointing to the Wheel we keep trying to re-invent. Their words are just nice sounding words as long as we are fixated on their finger. And most of the time it pokes us in the eye, Blinding us.
As contrary as it may sound I am not trying to be contrary, just Pointing.
Subject: Re: Forgiveness
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:01:01 -0500
Hi Sharlene,
You wrote: > Is there such a thing as forgiveness? > Is it not just a way we place responsibility upon another for our own actions? > Would like to hear responses on that. LOL
Here is my response through this small poem I rambled a couple of years ago:
Practicing Forgiveness
Associated with letting go is forgiveness power divine It is not submitting in helplessness; rather awareness is the sign. When wrongdoing is acknowledged by the person to be forgiven See how genuine and remorseful is the person for actions benign Keeping hurt within you is carrying the burden that you can release Otherwise you would be choking- wisdom calls for fresh breeze.
By resorting to retaliate and prick the other person all the time You suffer too, as your mind is busy punishing so-called crime. In creating hell for other person you get false satisfaction indeed Just consider the torture you go through nourishing poisonous seed You are angry all the time, cheated, frustrated and torn apart With understanding and compassion, this melo-drama you can stop.
"Every one is responsible for one's own actions" -is carved in stone. Without any exemption; every one gets fruits for seeds he has sown. Do your things right; guided from within, interact as needed and let it go Both you and other person is unique; damage done cannot be reversed Carry not suffering forever, decide put a stop and in peace be rehearsed. Learn from this incident, move forward with life don't expect him to bow.
Do daily meditations; build inner strength and harsh feelings you release Be aware of things around, attach not to any expectation and stop the tease. Observe more, involve less, rebuild yourself and have a new beginning Every thing and experience is temporary, dwell that subject to no ending With that wisdom in practice, it is easy to forgive and restore your peace
Forgiveness based on intellect and rationality is a short-lived affair All that stuff you let go will revisit and guess who/what will snare Find a permanent solution in conjunction with your inner power Become a loving, vibrant and aware person nothing can go sour Compassion and forgiveness will be natural and you will blossom Decision is in your hands; without genuine effort nothing will fathom.
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The great Path has no Gates, thousands of roads enter it. When one passes through this Gateless Gate he Walks freely between Heaven and Earth.
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