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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ August - Page 2 ~
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Subject: The Now
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:16:23 -0700
Sitting here this morning, replying to an email of a dear friend, a thought crossed my mind. As EJ would say, that was my first mistake. lol
Through our lives, we are conditioned by emotions. The way we learn to react to different stimuli and experiences through others. We learn to be angry, we learn to seek control and we learn to want and desire. We grow up through life always seeking that golden ring and look outside ourselves for satisfaction. We expect others to fill those desires and are angry when no one does. We feel used and abused. This mentality follows us into our ever present now. Each of our todays are affected by our yesterdays and what we have learned through those yesterdays. It is through our intellect and our knowledge, that we seek and grab for that golden ring. It is our intellect that transcribes and translates what we read and hear. We can read thousands of books seeking that one sentence that awakens us from our dream. And yet, when the intellect is doing the reading, that awakening never happens. The awakening never happens when we are seeking so hard to find it. The awakening never happens when we are keeping our mind so busy and distracted reading the words of the awakened, that we don't take the time to awaken ourselves. Our minds are kept active trying to remember who said what, and which teacher is better than the other, and what words triggered a little light within ourselves, that we forget to be that light. We spend so much seeking the words of others, that we forget to use the words as tools within our now, within our moment. So the past continues to affect our now in many ways.
We fear not having those intelligent words of sages long past. We cling to the sage and to the words and we forget to look at where the words point. We become quoting machines. Our intelligence grows, our seeking continues, and we spend the now in busy ness rather than in silence.
It is not through the words that we awaken, it is through the doing and being what the words point to.
I dunno, just a thought
Subject: what you want
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:58:09 -0500
Only when you stop predefining What you want Do you stop wading in pools of disappointment And trekking through forests of delusion Once you stop clinging to the wanting You discover contentment You discover you are blessed You discover that there is nothing left to want.
Subject: Re: what you want
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:39:25 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->Only when you stop predefining ->What you want ->Do you stop wading in pools of disappointment ->And trekking through forests of delusion ->Once you stop clinging to the wanting ->You discover contentment ->You discover you are blessed ->You discover that there is nothing left to want.
*Deep Bow* If all one *wants* is "contentment", and even "contentment" has a very important qualifier that few work up the Courage to Embrace. Because there can not be "nothing left to want" until we let go of all the conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sorts. There can not be even a single influence left to let go of. Which amounts to the Total Freedom to BE (including contentment). So True contentment is really more than letting go of all Desires, but even letting go of the notion of contentment. Sleeping we can seemingly enjoy many forms of contentment at seemingly many depths. Awakening we would not know whether we are contented or not because there is no room for any notions at all, though it could be, it seems, termed contentment by an onlooker. Awakening is All, yet Nothing at all. Just an addition to your fine offering Dear Friend.
Subject: re: the now & the Lobster mushroom
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:52:48 -0700
hey sharlene,
we're relatively close to each other up here in the great white north, yes, & as u say, times are indeed getting more unpleasant for those of us in the north - slocan forest products shut down on the BC day weekend.... wonder what labour day's menu will be?
another $140 deduction on OAP?
but ultimately it is good, n'est-ce pas, to get these 'shocks' now & zen to wake us up to what is really going down...
& what is it that's really going down?
'eye' haven't the foggiest, though i do see that in most 'demo-krazies' more & more people are casting flies into the river rather than slipping votes into the ballot box...
at least we're still asking each other what 'fly' is best...
& this is good 'knews' to me because the fish is 'still' riding the bicycle even tho it's steering may be haphazard...
it's not where the pendulum swings but rather THAT it swings... this is enuff for me, like a heartbeat or a breath... one foot in front of the other...
anywaze, sharlene, in ur Now post u say: "Through our lives, we are conditioned by emotions."
i would rather u had sed: we are konditioned by our kondtitioning because emotions are one thing & konditioned emotions are an Other...
u say ur selph: "Through our lives, we are konditioned by emotions. The way we learn to react to different stimuli and experiences through others."
we are not konditioned by emotions, sharlene - we are konditioned by the konditioning of our emotions...
i believe 'e-mote-tion' is merely one of our twelve or so senses - purely a 'sense', an apandage that reaches into space to bring 'beingness' to the 'navel'...
as for the brass ring, may i thro in sum ray-monde carver:
whatever became of that brass ring supposed to go with the merry-go-round? the brass one that all the the poor-but-happy young girls & boys were always snagging just at the Magic Moment? i've asked around: do you know anything about the brass ring...? i said to my neighbour. i asked my wife, & i even asked the butcher ( who i think is from a foreign country, & should know). no one knows, it seems. then i asked a man who used to work for a carnival. years ago, he said, it was different then. even the grown-ups rode. he remembered a young woman in Topeka, Kansas. it was in august. she held hands with the man who rode the horse next to her, who had a moustache & who was her husband. the young woman laughed all the time, he said. the husband laughed too, even though he had a mustache. but all that is another story. he didn't say anything about the brass ring...
he suddenly became silent...
i know knot either, jest a peep from the henhowse...
salut! jackson pollack
Subject: re: the now & the Lobster mushroom
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 07:41:18 -0700
>hey sharlene,
Hey yourself, Jackson Pollack.
>we're relatively close to each other up here in the great white north,
You are still south of me aren't you? In the beautiful Kootenay? Or have you once again moved farther north?
> yes, >& as u say, times are indeed getting more unpleasant for those of us in the >north - slocan forest products shut down on the BC day weekend.... wonder >what labour day's menu will be?
Who can guess these days. I do know the bush will be loaded with laid off forest workers. Apparently the Zoo is already up and running but no shrooms. To dry. It's over a year here now for the shutdown of the mill, EI has run out for most. Every second house is for sale. Schools have shut down and the new one isn't opening. Went to Kitimat and Prince Rupert last week and it's no better. Half the stores are closed. ah well.
>another $140 deduction on OAP?
Yikes.
>but ultimately it is good, n'est-ce pas, to get these 'shocks' now & zen to >wake us up to what is really going down...
A kick in the pants, a whack on the head, another hand in our wallet, it's all the same. lol
>& what is it that's really going down?
The eventual takeover by the neighbour to the south.
>'eye' haven't the foggiest, though i do see that in most 'demo-krazies' more >& more people are casting flies into the river rather than slipping votes >into the ballot box...
Along with the realization that what we think or say means nothing. They just know that with the flies there is a chance. Votes into a ballet box is like saying one is different than the other. at least the fish in the water put up an honest fight.
>at least we're still asking each other what 'fly' is best...
In a week or so, it will be which spin and glo works best,the clown always wins. The one with the pink polka dots. Still can't figure out the taste of a coho. lol Likes to attack the clowns. Perhaps we should vote for them.
>& this is good 'knews' to me because the fish is 'still' riding the bicycle >even tho it's steering may be haphazard...
ha ha, it's true.
>it's not where the pendulum swings >but rather THAT it swings...
Will it ever rest in the middle? Balanced but ready for action.
>anywaze, sharlene, in ur Now post u say: >"Through our lives, we are conditioned by emotions." >i would rather u had sed: we are konditioned by our kondtitioning because >emotions are one thing & konditioned emotions are an Other...
Emotions are emotions. All are conditioned reactions to a situation or an attachment. There are two states of being, one is love, the other is fear. All emotions are based in fear.
>u say ur selph: "Through our lives, we are konditioned by emotions. The way >we learn to react to different stimuli and experiences through others." >we are not konditioned by emotions, sharlene - we are konditioned by the >konditioning of our emotions...
Emotions are conditioned reactions and responses. We learn to have emotions and how and when to use them. And we do use them. They are tools for achieving various outcomes. Children learn to use them as attention getters, people pleasing and tantrums for attempting to get what they want. The noisy wheel gets the grease.
>i believe 'e-mote-tion' is merely one of our twelve or so senses - purely a >'sense', an apandage that reaches into space to bring 'beingness' to the >'navel'...
Hmm, I'll talk to my navel and see what it wants.
>as for the brass ring, may i thro in sum ray-monde carver:
The prize for riding on the merry go round. Going in circles, round and round and only ending when you catch the brass ring. Perhaps the brass ring is apperception and the merry go round will no longer exist, nor will the need for emotion.
>whatever became of that brass ring >supposed to go with the merry-go-round?
I have no idea.
>i know knot either, >jest a peep from the henhowse...
The world needed a brass ring then. A sense of adventure in their lives in a mild way. There were still frontiers to explore back then, to satisfy that urge of exploration and discovery. Territories still to be explored. The brass ring has been replaced by extreme sports. There is nothing left to wager but our lives. Life has become so ordinary, things easier to acquire, roads into the wilds and nothing much is left in the unknown. The only unknown left is death. And people have learned to bet theirs on a machine against the world. Who can do the most dangerous thing and survive. Survival is the brass ring.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 05:06:02 GMT
Greetings Community,
The simple *ah ha* is a most quantum leap for the vast norm. The first *ah ha* was no doubt viewed as instant Enlightenment, yet the more common the *ah ha* the less Enlightening they seem. Yet each one is a step along the Path of Awakening.
No one Saves us but ourselves, we ourselves must Walk the Way. When one really begins to investigate beliefs, one discovers that the 'me' who 'I' think 'I' am, is nothing more than a 'program', laid over instincts of fear, aggression, and the desires that one is conditioned with. So to question beliefs is to question one's very 'self' -- 'my' social identity and sense of 'self'. Only by challenging the very act of believing itself, can one actively dismantle and eliminate all of the beliefs that 'I' hold so dearly. To replace beliefs with Facts, with Truth, is to eliminate one's 'self' and to penetrate into the 'Mystery of True Life' . The Universe is quite simply What-IS, perfect, pure, infinite, and happening this very Moment. It requires no belief, faith, hope or trust to BE Here NOW.
Subject: Stages of Samadhi
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:01:58 GMT
Greetings Community,
It has been asked: ->Are there stages of Samadhi?
There are varying depths of Samadhi, as there are varying depths of Awakening. Some schools of thought in the East call these varying depths "stages". But what is Samadhi ? An Eastern word. That, by the way, can not be Truly Understood by a Westerner any more than the Eastern word Namaste. In the Far East these two words, for example, involve a Totality of BEing, whereas Westerners use these words to convey their own conditioned notions *about* those words. Before a Westerner can ever understand these words a Westerner would have to BE an Easterner. So Westerners who uses these words in place of understanding use them to *portray* that they may know something. Do not misunderstand, Westerners CAN be Easterners in a very real sense by stripping away the Western modus operandi and taking on an Eastern one. With that said.......
Samadhi is likened to that Present Moment Presence of no attachments and not influenced by conditionings, that all is very Clear and seen precisely AS it IS. No projecting of anything. This is when Apperception can occur. Apperception being Witnessing or non-involved Observing, a perception without attachment or perspective or slant or projections. The depth would depend on the amount of conditionings/attachments that have been let go. This is the only real so called "stages", and the determining factor in how long this state of Present Moment Presence Clarity lasts. The first time this happens it is the most profound experience one can have, and you will never have another one like it or as intense. Most chase the first experience so never really experience it again (except in their mind). Those who do not chase that first experience, taking it as that it must be what is, eventually Realize/Recognize that all the experiences were as intense as the first but the increased depth of the experience just makes in *seem* less intense.
It is common to drift in and out of these experiences UNTIL you ARE that experience, because THEN that is all there IS. It is a common misconception that in order to talk or conduct everyday life we drift in and out of the Present Moment Presence, and a misconception because they are not Present Moment Presence. That is like saying that Siddhartha, while not meditating and was Teaching, or Jesus, while not praying and was Teaching, was out of the Moment or was not Present Moment Presence. Right! Once you ARE there (so to speak), you can walk and talk and even think and still BE Present Moment Presence (Samadhi). Westerners go goo-goo over Eastern words and miss the whole Point of Awakening, complicating the most Simple experience they could ever experience. That is why they can not experience it, they make it too complicated intellectualizing/conceptualizing it and filtering it through their conditionings.
Easterners do not stress the conditionings, though they mention them somewhat off hand, because they do not have to deal with them like Westerners have to. Oh the conditionings are there, though not like in the West, but easier gotten past because they are raised from birth not to hold much store in them. Which is not to say that all Easterners get past them though, because they do not. In the West they are raised to hold total store in them, so it is very hard to get past them. That is why the Eastern Gurus in the 60s and 70s went back home after awhile, they realized that it was a bigger mountain than they even wanted to deal with. So they planted their seeds and went back home. They were not prepared to deal with the Western conditioned modus operandi. Some of them even fell into it. That is why it is stressed that the FIRST thing we have to do is get rid of the conditionings. THEN we have a fighting chance at Awakening. And until we get rid of the conditionings, we do not have even the chance of a snowball in Hell.
All the Wise ones of yore and the Scriptures use different words but they all say the same thing -- get rid of the influences/conditionings/tendencies/whatever. And the failure of the Easterners of the 60s/70s to Save the Westerners from their Folly is a shining example. UNTIL Westerners let go of the conditionings all they can do is Talk the Talk, though granted they are convincing to one who is not yet Awakening.
You can tell opinionated people, they think everybody is opinionated (except themselves). And everything is an opinion (except their own). You can tell Dualists because there is always an *other*, they are always talking outside of what they talk about and never AS what they talk about. You can tell the intellect bound people because everything is a mental contrivance (except their own). They use the words of Awakened ones to convince both themselves and others that they *know* something. They quote and mimic, and are so obvious. The conditionings are obvious, the dead give-away. They do not want to listen because they do not want to let go of the Grand Trickster. It is the easy route to keep their hands covering their ears. So they Tell a good Tale, yet their Tail is too Short for the Tale they Tell, thus Talk the Talk. And when they leave the computer they take their Mask off and place it carefully on the keyboard, and Embrace the Grand Trickster going about their *other* seeming life.
An Observation -- any feedback ?
Subject: Re: Stages of Samadhi
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:33:38 -0400
> An Observation -- any feedback ?
How does one differentiate from "toxic" conditioned notions that veil Awakening, and useful conditioning needed for our physical survival? And could not this differenciation/discernment very well be based on toxic conditioning?
J
Subject: Re: Stages of Samadhi
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 13:54:05 GMT
Greetings J, you wrote: ->How does one differentiate from "toxic" conditioned notions that veil Awakening, and useful conditioning needed for our physical survival? ->And could not this differenciation/discernment very well be based on toxic conditioning?
Welcome to our little Oasis. Basically, learning for basic physical survival is quite instinctual and other learning for more social survival is more of a protocol and/or curtesy/respect nature. Ah, but the toxic stuff, those are the ones that control/manipulate our very thinking and resulting behavior. Sleeping everything is based on toxic conditionings except instinctual basic physical survival, Awakening nothing is because we have taken all that toxic stuff to the hazardous waste dump. Always start at the most obvious, letting them go with somewhat relative ease and the more complicated or subtle becomes more apparent. The more we let go, the more obvious the hidden. Hidden because we do not want to see them, and not because they have some inherent ability to hide. We start out as a babe with nothing to let go, and start out as an adult with everything to let go. Seems a bit unfair, the babes have all the fun while the adults have to work their butts off to get back to BEing a babe. Yet a bit of Poetic Justice because it was the adult that defiled the babe. Perhaps just part of the Game called Sleep, though a suicidal circular Game of self-destruction. Seems a bit self-defeating to Play.
Subject: examples appreciated
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:47:09 -0400
Thanks.
> because we > have taken all that toxic stuff to the hazardous waste dump.
In practicallity, is this "taking to the waste dump" the same as openly and honestly observing the conditionings? Is this very act fo witnessing what discards the conditioned notions?
Always start > at the most obvious,
Mind exemplify? Would an obvious toxic conditioned notion be, say, jealousy - rooted in the comparing mind?
letting them go with somewhat relative > ease
And this letting go is the realization that it IS a toxic conditioned notion? Seems there must be more than the realization in order to truly discard it.
and the > more complicated or subtle becomes more apparent.
Mind exemplifying? Is day dreaming (absent mindedly letting the chain of associations engult the Attention) a subtle toxic conditioned notion?
Thanks again,
Subject: Re: examples appreciated
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 02:08:08 GMT
Greetings J, you wrote: ->In practicallity, is this "taking to the waste dump" the same as openly and honestly observing the conditionings? Is this very act fo witnessing what discards the conditioned notions?
Doing and observing is the same ? Reading into or trying to associate will only lead to misunderstanding. Your projecting/associating is a good example of "start with the most obvious". What was Pointed to by the dumpster analogy was that we have to let the harmful conditionings go. Open Honest Self-Observation is just that, look at yourself without defending yourself to yourself. There really is no defense/excuse though we are conditioned to contrive many. Critique your thinking and behavior Openly and Honestly so that you can See the defiling conditionings. Just Seeing them and wishing them away, as some would like us to *believe*, will only drive them deeper and therefore harder to find. First, See them, acknowledge that you are a conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automaton and kick yourself in the butt for harboring such Folly. Then, starting with the most obvious, like projecting/associating, ask yourself "why was it established ?", "for what purpose ?", "is it in conjunction with some other defilement ?", "is clinging to it worth it's resulting Blindness ?", "is clinging to it worth not Waking-Up ?", and like questions. The obvious answer is "who needs it ?", so the obvious action is to drop it or let it go or stop letting it influence you in any way. Once you See it and acknowledge that it is a defiling conditioned notion and you are not going to have anything to do with it again, you will always Recognize it's ugly head when it arises and can stop it in it's tracks. Only you must See these defilements, and only you can drop them.
-> Always start ->> at the most obvious, -> ->Mind exemplify? Would an obvious toxic conditioned notion be, say, jealousy - rooted in the comparing mind?
I did above {8-> Jealousy is just a result of the actual toxic defilement. Addressing jealousy is just trying to band aid a festering wound. Our Suffering must be addressed at the Root Cause, otherwise it would be only a quick temporary fix. It will not help to address the resultants as they just take a lot of attention and energy and really accomplishes little. When you get to the deeper rooted conditionings comprising the so called emotions, then you will make headway with jealousy. So starting with the hard ones already chiseled your epitaph of failure. No, start with the obvious easy ones to build a certain momentum. By the way, here too is another obvious defiling conditioning, namely establishing self-defeat by starting with ones you can not let go of UNTIL you have let go of some preliminary ones. Example number 2.
-> letting them go with somewhat relative ->> ease -> ->And this letting go is the realization that it IS a toxic conditioned notion? Seems there must be more than the realization in order to truly discard it.
Example number 1 again. And example number 3 is that you can not project your conditioned ideas and images and meanings into/onto anything and expect to get anything except your own projected idea and image and meaning. Let Whatever-IS reveal itself to you. You do not give it a chance to do any revealing because you project your own meaning into it.
-> and the ->> more complicated or subtle becomes more apparent. -> ->Mind exemplifying? Is day dreaming (absent mindedly letting the chain of associations engult the Attention) a subtle toxic conditioned notion?
That example number 1 is very popular in your modus operandi. Day dreaming is but another escape from Reality. We are conditioned to run when our conditionings are threatened. Another of the obvious defilements. Example number 4, Embrace What-IS Reality, do not run from it. When you catch yourself day dreaming slap yourself across the face. "HEY, Wake-Up you goof !", or something like that in your own words. There is only One place Reality IS, and that is the Present Moment.
It is all in Self-Observation Dear Friend, and only you can do that. No one Saves you but yourself, no one can and no one may, others can Point to the Path, you yourself must Walk the Way. I hope the above four examples Help.
Perhaps J would like to hear from others as well, so speak up {8->
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:54:04 GMT
Greetings Seekers,
Getting there is all the fun because there is no *there*. The Journey IS the Goal.
Subject: re: stages of Samadhi
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:18:03 -0700
greetings ray & jay & kommunity,
u say: 'We start out as a babe with nothing to let go, and start out as an adult with everything to let go.'
i ask: 'What happened in the interim?... betwixt the two starts, how did all the shit end up in the krankkase?
Konditioning?
By whom?
Why?
Poetic justice it may BE in one sense, ray, but surely an Adult is not gonna De-file a babe - there's no burrs on the babe that need filing...
my next question would have to be: who the wheck is doing this filing?
A babe de-filed?
The Shitstem?
Why?
link dilko
Subject: Re: stages of Samadhi
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 05:21:57 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->u say: 'We start out as a babe with nothing to let go, and start out as an ->adult with everything to let go.' -> ->i ask: 'What happened in the interim?... betwixt the two starts, how did ->all the shit end up in the krankkase? -> ->Konditioning?
Such profound Wisdom, thank you Dear Friend. You answered your own question.
->By whom?
It would be easier to answer "not by whom ?" Which is no one. Because the answer to your question is everyone and everything. You name it and it has done it's share of the defiling by brainwashing.
->Why?
To control and manipulate. Profit, gain, greed, power, whatever.
->Poetic justice it may BE in one sense, ray, but surely an Adult is not gonna ->De-file a babe - there's no burrs on the babe that need filing...
True, no burrs to be filed yet the whole of society and family and friends and peers and institutions keep filing away until there is nothing left but an automaton. It is sad that parents would do such a dastardly deed to their own young. What monsters we have become, and call ourselves Saints.
->my next question would have to be: who the wheck is doing this filing?
Answered above. Everything and everyone.
->A babe de-filed?
The babe is un-filed, adults defile the babe, thus when the babe becomes the adult he has to de-file. Or continue to be defiled and continue defiling his young as his forefathers did him maintaining a family tradition {8->
Subject: re: eggsamples appreciated & stages of samadhi
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:05:43 -0700
greetings kommunity,
a very welcome exchange here with J asking: "How does one differentiate from "toxic" conditioned notions that veil Awakening, and useful conditioning needed for our physical survival? "
EJ answers: "Basically, learning for basic physical survival is quite instinctual and other learning for more social survival is more of a protocol and/or curtesy/respect nature..."
i ask: might not the two above learnings also be conditioned learnings with an underpining of toxins that exist beyond the reach of the 'i'?...
why are these acceptable while the 'more philosophical' aspekt of toxic conditioning is 'knot' though they come from the same swamp...
is social survival not predicated by 'nodding' the head with the rest of the 'heard' at the risk of being ostrascized...
surely these fist sized grapes are the fruits of monsanto - what difference then from the belly of the buddha & the smirk on dubya's face?
EJ continues: "Ah, but the toxic stuff, those are the ones that control/manipulate our very thinking and resulting behavior..."
i say: let's fumigate the leaves & the atmosphere before we attack the 'roots' - let's 'spray' the surface conditionings before we 'smoke out' the heavy mothers lodged in the roots out of the 'sole'...
Ray sez: "Sleeping, everything is based on toxic conditionings except - instinctual basic physical survival," - (like the reality shows - my shit here) - "Awakening nothing is because we have taken all that toxic stuff to the hazardous waste dump."...
"Always start at the most obvious, letting them go with somewhat relative ease and the more complicated or subtle becomes more apparent. The more we let go, the more obvious the hidden. Hidden because we do not want to see them, and not because they have some inherent ability to hide."
why is it that we don't want to see them? - becuz our 'i's' are wide shut? -
an eggsample here of some one tossing & mumbling in his Sleep...
"dad," asked the babe, " would a dog bite it's own tail?"...
yes, veronica, given half the Chance it would...
jackson pollack
Subject: Re: eggsamples appreciated & stages of samadhi
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 07:18:08 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: -> a very welcome exchange here with J asking: "How does one differentiate ->from "toxic" conditioned notions that veil Awakening, and useful ->conditioning needed for our physical survival? " -> ->EJ answers: "Basically, learning for basic physical ->survival is quite instinctual and other learning for more social survival is ->more of a protocol and/or curtesy/respect nature..." -> ->i ask: might not the two above learnings also be conditioned learnings with ->an underpining of toxins that exist beyond the reach of the 'i'?...
Anything is possible, but why complicate that which is Simple ? Much needs done as well as learned in both physical and social survival. By social survival I Point to being IN the world but not OF the world, so needs no toxins attached. After all, we should get along with the whole of the human family even though we may find most of their thinking and behavior disgusting. The all are family. Awakening there is only Compassion for All, particulating none. This planet is smaller than we would like to think.
->why are these acceptable while the 'more philosophical' aspekt of toxic ->conditioning is 'knot' though they come from the same swamp...
These are acceptable because they do not Veil our Awakening, that is why I set them aside as "learning". The only conditionings that Veil our Awakening are the toxic ones that keep us from Waking-Up, so they are the only ones we must be concerned about. The others are just handy Tools. Why throw out the baby with the bath water ? If you threw the baby out then you would have no one to defile {8->
->is social survival not predicated by 'nodding' the head with the rest of the ->'heard' at the risk of being ostrascized...
No, that is being OF the world as well as IN it. Another example of obvious defilements, this "risk". Your statement also exemplifies example 1, projecting/associating. Obvious defilements to let go because all they do is complicate the Simple.
->surely these fist sized grapes are the fruits of monsanto - what difference ->then from the belly of the buddha & the smirk on dubya's face?
Example number 1 again. You set the stage of your whole understanding with your preconceptions. Discard them and you might be able to See that there is no one to Blame for our defilement, there are too many sources. BUT, we are to Blame if we do not do something to get rid of them. If you really want someone to Blame, Blame yourself for clinging ever so tightly to them. Or is this in defense of them so you will not have to let them go ?
->EJ continues: "Ah, but the toxic stuff, those are the ones that ->control/manipulate our very thinking and resulting behavior..." -> ->i say: let's fumigate the leaves & the atmosphere before we attack the ->'roots' - let's 'spray' the surface conditionings before we 'smoke out' the ->heavy mothers lodged in the roots out of the 'sole'...
That is what the Grand Trickster says too Dear Friend, because he is a band aid manufacturer. He wants you to use all the band aids he makes so you will not kill the tree. But the Slayer of the Real must be Slain Dear Friend. And you can not do it with a band aid, you need the Sword Of Truth. It is the only thing the Grand Trickster Fears.
->Ray sez: "Sleeping, everything is based on toxic conditionings except - ->instinctual basic physical survival," - ->(like the reality shows - my shit here) - "Awakening nothing is because we ->have taken all that toxic stuff to the hazardous waste dump."... -> ->"Always start at the most obvious, letting them go with somewhat relative ->ease and the more complicated or subtle becomes more apparent. The more we ->let go, the ->more obvious the hidden. Hidden because we do not want to see them, and ->not because they have some inherent ability to hide." -> ->why is it that we don't want to see them? ->- becuz our 'i's' are wide shut? -
Yes, we do not want to see them because it is too Painful. We parade around all day sporting a SuperMan suit, chest pushed out and ten feet tall. And when we get home we want to see that big *S* when we look in the mirror. Because if we do not we will break the mirror, and fashion one with an *S* on it so when we look at ourself we will see the *S*. And in our delusion we convince ourself that it is not a fake *S*. Now to even think that we do not have an *S* on our suit or that we are not ten feet tall, is most Painful because that is what we tell everyone. To consider that we are conditioned programmed controlled manipulated robots, is too Painful. We are God's chosen, made in his image, the center of the universe, we are surely SuperMan and we better see that *S* in the mirror. It is our God given Right to kill and steal and hate and war and cheat and graft and abuse anything we so Desire, so we better see that *S* when we look in the mirror. Get the Point ?
->an eggsample here of some one tossing & mumbling in his Sleep...
That is Seen Dear Friend, but you eat the Poison Dinner so you have to Suffer with the indigestion. Makes perfect sense here. If you do not like the indigestion get rid of the Poison. Sort of Simple.
->"dad," asked the babe, " would a dog bite it's own tail?"... -> ->yes, veronica, given half the Chance it would...
It all depends. Is the dog wagging the tail or is the tail wagging the dog ?
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