 |
| |
Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ November - Page 1 ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: payment due
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:44:10 -0600
Subject: You Learn
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 11:28:48 -0800
You Learn
==========
After a while, you learn the subtle difference between holding a hand and chaining a soul
and you learn that love doesn't mean leaning and company doesn't always mean security.
And you begin to learn that kisses aren't contracts and presents aren't promises
and you begin to accept your defeats with your head up and your eyes ahead with the grace of a woman not the grief of a child
and you learn to build all your roads on today because tomorrow's ground is too uncertain for plans and futures have a way of falling down in mid-flight.
After a while, you learn that even sunshine burns if you get too much so you plant your own garden and decorate your own soul instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers.
And you learn that you really can endure that you really are strong and you really do have worth and you learn and you learn
Author Unknown
Subject: The Trickster's Domain
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 00:04:36 GMT
Greetings Community,
It has been observed that the seeming 'goal' of Awakening is actually the Beginning of Waking-Up and starting on the Path, but can not be seen as destiny for then it has a ring of preconception to it. Nothing is preordained, as many would have us believe. The arduous work of "worked and burned" is most True and is the hardest and most painful undertaking we have ever or will ever undertake. So it is never a simple matter, but rather an arduous and Painful one.
However, what is not stressed by most is that building a house on a rotten foundation is very poor building practice. That is, if you do not make sure that the foundation is Pure then the house will not endure for it will be as faulty as the foundation before long. Since in the case at hand we can not just pour a new foundation we have to Purify the old foundation by ridding it of it's defilements. Defilements being conditionings. THEN we can take up the arduous Painful task of building a house. You know, the old build your house on a rock rather than sand idea. It has been tossed around by some from time to time. So all the working and burning, IF you do not Purify the defilements, will be tainted and could wind up as a hand full of ash.
So as it has been Pointed to from here, that if the practice is tainted by an impure foundation that the result of the practice will be tainted also. Regardless of the Correctness of the practice. And though the practice can be most arduous and painful it is child's play compared to letting go of conditioned notions. And if we do not let go of the conditioned notions the greatest practice in the world will never put Humpty Dumpty back Together again.
And the struggle with letting go of those conditionings is hardly inherent in the human form, though quite relative to the human form. That is, humanity generates the conditioned ideas when it has a mind to and they do not come along with the form as it enters the manifested realm. Conditioned ideas are overlooked too readily, and are the stumbling blocks to all of our grand practices.
How does one let go of a conditioned idea ? Stop practicing it, stop clinging to it for this or that reason. If it is a defilement let it go. The old if thine eye offend thee idea. Yes, some of those conditioned ideas are simple to let go of. But most are rooted so deeply that it will change our life to pull them out and let them go. In fact, it does change one's life. The old Paul from Saul idea. And when that step is skipped all we have is a hand full of ash by all our grand practice. And not only does one have to DO it (let go of the conditioned ideas) one has to BE that DOing and BE the resultant change. Ah, THEN, the working and burning, BEing the working and BEing the burning. One can not just say it but rather must BE it -- Walk the Walk rather than Talk the Talk.
And one of the conditioned Dualistic ideas to let go is the notion that there is an *I* to "understand".
It has gotten pretty quiet around here {8-> Everyone checking for holes in the eyelids ? Additional comments are welcome.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 05:54:10 GMT
Greetings Venerable Community,
How is it that Masters Awakening, AS the Timeless Eternal NOW with no attachment to the physical realm, like music ? Awakening, they do not just attune the mind to Timeless Truth/Reality, their Whole BEing is Attuned. That is, every cell and fiber of the body/mind/Consciousness IS Infinite Eternal Timeless Truth/Reality so their Sensitivity IS Infinite Eternal Timeless Truth/Reality. Not only Aware of/as What-IS but Aware of/as What has been and What will be. They Know where they have been, they Know where they are going, and they Know where they ARE. A Totality. This Infinite Eternal Timeless Sensitivity is the Awareness of every sound and every sight all at once. Not sensed by the mind or even by the senses but rather Sensed by/as their Whole BEing. Awakening is Infinitely Eternally Timelessly Naturally Rhythmic -- a True Nature Dance. Is it really any wonder that they would be lulled by music ? Is it really any wonder that they would even sing and jump around -- Walking the Dance of/as their BEing ? Is it really any wonder that they, though lost for words most times, offer an answer even before we ask the question ?
The Moment being but a flicker in the passing from one Moment to the next, is ever anew. That is, the duration of a Moment is not even detectable by the feebleness of Sleep.
Subject: Criticism
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 06:02:55 -0800
Good morning. oh quiet ones. I am breaking the stillness with a statement made by another, and enclosing my response to it. This is open for feedback, discussion, opinion, and or realized truth. lol There is no law on breaking the silence around here now and then..
Other person's statement: Often people feel, especially those who subscribe to the "new age" of love and kindness, that we need to let everyone "do their thing" and "live and let live" and that any criticism of anyone, any path, system, school or therapeutic approach is out of line.
Mine: And so it is. Your criticism means nothing. Criticism is but an intellectual opinion, based on ones gathering of information and truth taken on as ones own, and not experienced. Anyone that calls themselves teacher, or those that don't, and proceed to criticize another, is guilty of verbal abuse and nothing more, no matter what label they put on it. Truth and compassion are partners. Some so called teachers are just Jerry Springers spin offs. Looking for and finding others for entertainment, and many others follow, just to be entertained. And others moderate or limit memberships to their group so they can exercise power and control for whatever reason or excuse. The main one being to avoid confrontation with others........in other words, to avoid criticism. The ego hates to be criticized and yet, it is the ego that does the criticizing. There is a line between truth and opinion. One is realized, and the other isn't. The only way to tell the difference, is to have experienced truth within yourself. Then it is no longer judgement, but observation or recognition of experienced truth. Truth is then recognized as truth, not as a criticism. Requiring no response, nor causing a reaction.
I dunno Shar
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 05:52:02 GMT
Greetings,
Dogen once said: "Above all don't wish to become a future buddha; your only concern should be, as thought follows thought, to avoid clinging to any of them". When we stop *thinking* about it, we simply ARE simply DOing what must be done AS What-IS -- whatever and whenever and wherever that we may BE.
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 11:03:19 -0500
Dear Sharlene,
What you call criticism is what I call an interpritation. When you learn to listen to the others heart and not only the other's words, you either hear love or a cry for love. Reacting - becoming offended - to anothers advise/pointer/cry for love, is a sign that spells CLEAN YOUR EARS. Helpful critique, as I see it, is a kind suggestion or advise, and criticism as you perhaps used the word, as in "downputting" (what I call a cry for love), has very little to do with you, and so no reaction needs to take place. In NVC (nonviolent communication) they recomend a great way for learning how to listen to what is alive in the other person, for example the deep insecurity hiding behind a condescending tone and usage of words.
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:20:53 -0800
Hello Swedish God,J, Would that be Jens, Jon, or something not quite so easy to pronouce?lol You wrote: >Dear Sharlene, >What you call criticism is what I call an interpritation.
Yes, others may have their own name for it.
>When you learn to listen to the others heart and not only the other's >words, you either hear love or a cry for love. Reacting - becoming >offended - to anothers advise/pointer/cry for love, is a sign that spells >CLEAN YOUR EARS.
So, please tell me more about the above sentence. It is indeed an interesting statement, and would love to hear what you have to say on this.
>Helpful critique, as I see it, is a kind suggestion or advise, and >criticism as you perhaps used the word, as in "downputting" (what I call a >cry for love), has very little to do with you, and so no reaction needs to >take place.
But do you see the way you use helpful critique instead of the word criticism? There is a difference, both in the word, and the meaning, and the state in which it is shared.
>In NVC (nonviolent communication) they recomend a great way for learning >how to listen to what is alive in the other person, for example the deep >insecurity hiding behind a condescending tone and usage of words.
Yes, I agree there are other things in play, rather than just the words that get spewed out. When one is working through their own ego, words are words. The energy behind the words are not noticed until one works through the love energy or state of love. Then also as you say, one can be trained to listen, not guaranteeing of course, that training replaces experience. Training, being a form of conditioning.
Now you sound very informed on this topic. Can you tell us more about yourself and your experience with it?
Thank you
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:15:03 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Good morning. ->oh quiet ones.
Good belated morning back to you {8-> Yes, it does seem that everyone is pasturing these days.
->I am breaking the stillness with a statement made by another, and enclosing ->my response to it.
Thank you for dropping in and for the sharing. Such sharing can always be the foundation of further discussion or a springboard for related discussion.
->Other person's statement: Often people feel, especially those who subscribe ->to the "new age" of love and kindness, that we need to let everyone "do ->their thing" and "live and let live" and that any criticism of anyone, any ->path, system, school or therapeutic approach is out of line. -> ->Mine: And so it is. Your criticism means nothing. Criticism is but an ->intellectual opinion, based on ones gathering of information and truth ->taken on as ones own, and not experienced. ->Anyone that calls themselves teacher, or those that don't, and proceed to ->criticize another, is guilty of verbal abuse and nothing more, no matter ->what label they put on it.
Yes, destructive criticism is most useless because it is actually a double edged sword. That is, the intent is to demean another while at the same time to avoid self-observation. Constructive criticism, on the other hand, is intended to Point out defilements such that Help is given rather than simply criticizing. That, as it turns out, is not really criticism but rather the intention of Helping another.
->Truth and compassion are partners.
*Deep Bow*
->Some so called teachers are just Jerry Springers spin offs. Looking for and ->finding others for entertainment, and many others follow, just to be ->entertained. And others moderate or limit memberships to their group so ->they can exercise power and control for whatever reason or excuse. The main ->one being to avoid confrontation with others........in other words, to ->avoid criticism. The ego hates to be criticized and yet, it is the ego that ->does the criticizing.
*Roaring Laughter* It is so True that it is almost funny. To "entertain" and also to fleece them of their 'net worth' {8->
->There is a line between truth and opinion.
Actually they are Realities apart.
->One is realized, and the other ->isn't. The only way to tell the difference, is to have experienced truth ->within yourself. Then it is no longer judgement, but observation or ->recognition of experienced truth. Truth is then recognized as truth, not as ->a criticism. Requiring no response, nor causing a reaction.
*Deep Bow* Sharnanda.
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:30:23 -0800
Good evening EJ, you wrote: > Yes, destructive criticism is most useless because it is actually a >double edged sword. That is, the intent is to demean another while at the >same time to avoid self-observation. Constructive criticism, on the other >hand, is intended to Point out defilements such that Help is given rather >than simply criticizing. That, as it turns out, is not really criticism >but rather the intention of Helping another.
To me there is no good nor bad criticism. There is just criticism. Helpful pointers or questioning anothers belief system do not open the mind to doubt the intent of another. . whereas criticism's intent is questioned. There is no help in criticism when ones intent is always being questioned.
I dunno, just me and my ego?
Subject: Tid Bit
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 03:12:54 GMT
"There is the eye of the Sea and there is the foam. Leave the foam behind and look with the eye of the Sea. Day and night foam is born out of the the Sea: how strange! You keep looking at the foam and not at the Sea!" -- Jalaluddin Rumi
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 04:31:17 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Good evening EJ, you wrote: ->> Yes, destructive criticism is most useless because it is actually a ->>double edged sword. That is, the intent is to demean another while at the ->>same time to avoid self-observation. Constructive criticism, on the other ->>hand, is intended to Point out defilements such that Help is given rather ->>than simply criticizing. That, as it turns out, is not really criticism ->>but rather the intention of Helping another. -> ->Sharlene: To me there is no good nor bad criticism. There is just criticism. ->Helpful pointers or questioning anothers belief system do not open the mind ->to doubt the intent of another. . whereas criticism's intent is questioned. ->There is no help in criticism when ones intent is always being questioned.
Well, yes, as eluded to, "constructive criticism" is just a commonly used term to indicate that the seeming or perceived criticism was not really criticism at all when the intent is to Help rather than demean. For what may be intended as Pointers or questioning is readily perceived as criticism because the Pointers or questions disrupt Sleep. When people *respond* even to harsh whacks along side of the head they do not perceive the whack as criticism, yet many *react* even to a hug. It kind of all rests on the perception (conditioned perspective) of the recipient. It is agreed that the only constructive offering can be from Direct Experience and not from beliefs or opinions, all else will be destructive one way or another (intended or not). But depending on one's conditioned condition, even Directly Experienced Pointers can be perceived as demeaning destructive criticism. Further, when one is Open and Honest with themselves even destructive criticism can be Recognized as a Pointer. So it would seem that the ball game depends more on the catcher than the pitcher. Anyone can throw a ball but not everyone can catch it. Sometimes you strike out, and sometimes you are a Louisville Slugger. It seems that it is in how one Holds the Bat. But then again one does not see bats flying around the ball field either, they pretty much stay to the belfry.
->I dunno
*I* agree, *I* "dunno" either.
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: Bonnie <milks63@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 05:46:53 -0800 (PST)
A wise man or woman once said, 'If someone offers you a gift and you do not accept it, to whom does it belong?'
Rainbows.
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:31:11 GMT
Greetings Rainbows, you wrote: ->A wise man or woman once said, 'If someone offers you ->a gift and you do not accept it, to whom does it ->belong?'
What is the taste of an apple that is not eaten ? What are the colors in a sun set that is not seen ? What is the answer to the question that is not asked ? Nothing can "belong" to anyone, as nothing has an inherent quality of possessability. Thus nothing can be given or accepted as a gift or otherwise, but only can be used or not depending on one's perception or lack of such. That which we seek is but a distraction for nothing can be found. The Key is in the observation of the jump of the legless frog.
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: "Rhonda" <maydean@nexicom.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:59:02 -0500
Shar says,
> Good morning. > oh quiet ones.
Good morning sweet Shar,
Don't fall over 'cause i'm responding, ok? :)
Shar: > Other person's statement: Often people feel, especially those who subscribe > to the "new age" of love and kindness, that we need to let everyone "do > their thing" and "live and let live" and that any criticism of anyone, any > path, system, school or therapeutic approach is out of line.
Wouldn't it be a total waste of time to be critical ? NOt only our own time, but those that we are criticising? Everywhere you look you can see the folly people are putting themselves through. We could expend a great deal of energy if we tried to be a critique to all the myriad paths, systems, schools and therapeutic approaches in the world....even if we were so diversified as to have experinced them all. "your wrong" "your bad" " your travelling down a wayward path" ....when a person says these things to someone else are they judging that person or are they judging the way they have dealt with their own issues in the past?
So i have to agree with the statement you shared. No matter how you look at it, criticism won't help. And isn't that the idea? To be helpul? ....at least, for us Light-Missioners :) When you have experienced something and you see another about to experience the same thing...and it is a nasty experience and you don't want them to fall in the same dungeon hole that you fell into...then you would point out to them what may occur...and i don't think that is criticism. That is a natural inclination to be helpul. However, if the recipient listening to your own personal experience takes it as criticism instead of insight, then they are bound and bent to travel the direction they're going and you are back to wasting your time by commenting any further.
My Merriam-Webster defines criticize as "to consider the merits and demerits of and judge accordingly" "evaluate" and "to find fault with : point out the faults of"
I, for one, am not certified to be a Judge and if i should need to look for faults i shouldn't need to look any further than my own self. Perhaps criticism would be best used in that way only. If we considered the merits and demerits of our own course of path and if we judged it accordingly then we would fluff off any seeming crticism that may be aimed towards us. If we meditated on and pointed out the faults to ourselves and then evaluated the situation......THEN perhaps criticism would be helpful and useful. Pointed inward....not outward.
Shar said: > Mine: And so it is. Your criticism means nothing. Criticism is but an > intellectual opinion, based on ones gathering of information and truth > taken on as ones own, and not experienced.
perfectly stated
Have a beautiful judgement free day
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:07:55 GMT
"Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise - what it is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see ?" -- from "Alice In Wonderland"
Subject: The Trickster's Domain
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:39:30 GMT
Greetings Community,
A definition of ego has been given as: ->"That which believes we are separate from God. ->Therefore it would seem axiomatic the closer we come to ->God and His all consuming Love, the less ego we have."
Why "God" ? Why not just Separate ? Can the unnameable be named ? That which is named is not that which is named so why name it ? Whenever we look for God we always find a belief system, yet when we look for ourself we always Realize God. To use your terms, to come closer to God one would have to get further away from the conditioned Dualistic notion that there is a *He* to be God and the conditioned Dualistic notion that the ego or Him/God or anything else could "have" anything. Paradoxically, the ego is just another conditioned Dualistic notion to justify naming and having. When we ARE and God IS, there is not a word/name at hand for anything. As in speed reading, we do not have to name it to Understand/Recognize it because naming it would just low us down.
Any other definitions to entertain ?
Subject: Re: Criticism
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 01:22:56 -0500
hello Sharlene,
> Hello Swedish God,J, > Would that be Jens, Jon, or something not quite so easy to pronouce?lol
Johannes :)
> >When you learn to listen to the others heart and not only the other's > >words, you either hear love or a cry for love. Reacting - becoming > >offended - to anothers advise/pointer/cry for love, is a sign that spells > >CLEAN YOUR EARS. > > So, please tell me more about the above sentence. It is indeed an > interesting statement, and would love to hear what you have to say on this.
Not much to say. Basically there is only two sources (ultimatly only one) out of which a person can do anything. When you listen to their hearts, all you hear is love, which could be a pointer, advise, whack on the head, a smile, etc, OR you hear a cry for love, which any "mean" comment easily shows... Often saying what another person is, is what could be called wolf language; you are good, bad, stupid, interesting, etc, etc. These are all evaluations, and they really don't say much, except perhaps the speakers emotional state.
> >Helpful critique, as I see it, is a kind suggestion or advise, and > >criticism as you perhaps used the word, as in "downputting" (what I call a > >cry for love), has very little to do with you, and so no reaction needs to > >take place. > > But do you see the way you use helpful critique instead of the word > criticism? There is a difference, both in the word, and the meaning, and > the state in which it is shared.
And while Listening with your Geraff ears (NVC language), all you hear is love or a cry for love. The concept criticism becomes quite bloodless. > >In NVC (nonviolent communication) they recomend a great way for learning > >how to listen to what is alive in the other person, for example the deep > >insecurity hiding behind a condescending tone and usage of words. > > Yes, I agree there are other things in play, rather than just the words that > get spewed out. When one is working through their own ego, words are words. > The energy behind the words are not noticed until one works through the > love energy or state of love. Then also as you say, one can be trained to > listen, not guaranteeing of course, that training replaces experience. > Training, being a form of conditioning.
The real training takes place during live, practical on-hand experience. I see it more as de-conditioning, since listening in this way is closer to our natural sate of being. > Now you sound very informed on this topic. Can you tell us > more about > yourself and your experience with it?
I still have a hard time not getting defensive towards my father. It is also hard for me not to subtly attack (verbally) him at times, which is just another defense mechanism. The times I have remained my calm and made myself vulnerable, honest, I got the same energy back. Deep down I am terrified of truly exposing myself, and staying in myheart while talking and listening to people have really confronted me with this. Interesting, come to think of it, it seems that you always get back what you put in... if I approach a person with defenses up, that is what I get back. I was at a weekend get together last weekend. The Merlin Order had invited me for a weekend down at their headcourters. When I firdst arrived, I saw this stunningly beautiful woman. I was really attracted to her, and I hoped that I would get to know her during the weekend. I am quite bold, and normally I don't have problems seducing beautiful females, but this one kept her distance to me all weekend! As sunday was coming to an end, I was in a bit of a bad mood. I gathered my courage, went up to her, and asked if I could talk to her for a moment. She was a bit surprised, but said ok. I began with saying that was going to try to come from a vulnerable, honest place, and so if I am unclear, it is because I am not used to this. I told her that I had really hoped to get to know her during the weekend, and that I felt dissapointed. I asked her what hertake was, why she had distanced herself and all. She flew in my arms and we made passionate love on the floor... (haha, just kidding)... So it turned out she really wasn't interested, and she avoided all guys who she thought was interested in her. But we both felt much better after having "clensed the air" and said what was on our hearts.
Best regards, J
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 06:01:48 GMT
Greetings Venerable Ones,
It is in the early ages that the Seeds must be Planted. This is where Foundations are shaken and new ones poured. And though those Seeds must be Sewn ever so subtly, if one such Seed Blossoms as a magnificent Awakening our labors are rewarded ten fold. For at those early ages, to divert or even cause confusion in the conditioned thinking of the Sleeping is better than hording the Seeds ourself.
Subject: A Little Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:10:38 GMT
Greetings Community,
Beliefs do not "hang on" -- WE "hang on" to them.
An *Axe* ? Keep it Sharp by honing it in Fire of Truth, Harden it AS the Cauldron of Awakening, and you would not have to *grind* it so much.
Subject: RE: A Little Ray Of Light
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:42:23 -0600
What if there is no difference Between the believer and the belief Nothing to cling to Apart from hugging yourself To keep away the cold
What if there is no difference In what you cut away And what you allow to remain No difference in the axe And what is cut by the axe No difference in the axe And the holder of the axe
Why need a Path When you never left home?
Subject: Re: A Litple Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:57:52 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->What if there is no difference ->Between the believer and the belief
That is the problem, there is no difference between the believer and the belief. It is called Sleeping. When there is no-belief thus no-believer there is only What-IS AS it IS. It is called Awakening.
->Nothing to cling to ->Apart from hugging yourself ->To keep away the cold
Believers cling to nothing ? If not, they would not be believers. As long as there is a believer there must always be something to believe, thus always something to cling to. We often get so deeply stuck in the practice that we become unaware that there is anything other than the practice, seemingly not clinging to the practice. But the bottom line is that it is still a practice, thus keep Beating ourself with the Stick we are unaware we are Holding. So the question of Dropping the Stick that we are unaware we are Holding is gibberish to us. But we still deal with the war and the pain and the conflict and the hatred and the corruption and Suffering, believing we cling to nothing. So first we have to get out of our self-made world and admit that we are the ones Holding the Stick. Perhaps THEN we can Drop it.
->What if there is no difference ->In what you cut away ->And what you allow to remain
That is the problem, we believe we have a choice in what we keep and what we let go. People contrive all sorts of rationalization for why this or that must be kept, but alas it is all a Game to stave off the Hunger pang of the True Nature Urging Entreating Entrance upon the Stage of the phenomenal realm. Humanity has Evolved/Involved to the point that our actual Essence is straining at the seams to Burst Forth, yet we cement the peddles together with our clinging to those dearly beloved conditioned ideas and images and meanings and rationalizations of all manner. "Forgive them for they know not what they do".
->No difference in the axe ->And what is cut by the axe ->No difference in the axe ->And the holder of the axe
"The idol of your self is the mother of all idols. The material idol is only a snake; while this inner idol is a dragon. It is easy to break an idol, but to regard the self as easy to subdue is a mistake." -- Rumi
->Why need a Path ->When you never left home?
Hansel and Gretel used bread crumbs, others used the Wise words of Sages hence, and though indeed it is but a Trail that leads back Home, from where they really never left, those not on The Path are Lost and can not find The Way. So indeed Lost is more a Blindness than a logistic misplacement, a matter of Dropping the Veils of dear conditioned notions so that we may See where we ARE. The Pathless Path, The Wayless Way, The Journeyless Journey that IS Home. When we ARE The Path and ARE The Way and ARE the Journey we ARE Home.
Good to hear you Thomas. Happy Birthday.
Subject: mud
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:11:30 -0600
Sometimes I think enlightenment is more about hosing off the mud from some diamond underneath. Sometimes I wonder if there is anything under all of the mud at all.
Subject: Because.....
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 03:33:59 GMT
"There is great danger in me; for who doth not understand these runes shall make a great miss. He shall fall down into the pit called Because, and there he shall perish with the dogs of Reason." -- Aleister Crowley
Subject: A Ray
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:53:09 GMT
Greetings,
Once the Door is Opened, we can not get it Closed quite all the way again. Glimpsing Awakening, we can never get that Moment out of our BEing -- it will remain there and plague us until we do something about Actualizing it. When we finally Realize that there IS Gold Within the Lead we are conditioned to think we are, we have to start panning -- do we not ?
Subject: A Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 06:24:20 GMT
Greetings,
First, I have yet to notice an organized religion that Understood what a "Spiritual Perspective* was, or Understood that there was a "road" let alone how to impasse it, or Understood that the "universe" did not exist beyond themselves, or Understood that "harmony" was an element of this manifested physical plane. Though indeed, organized religions like to play Cops. What religion was Jesus ? Or Siddhartha ?
Subject: Re: mud
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:16:33 -0800
Hi Tom, you wrote: >Sometimes I think enlightenment is more about >hosing off the mud from some diamond underneath. >Sometimes I wonder if there is anything under >all of the mud at all.
There is nothing under the mud. The state of no-thing. That diamond is an illusion of a payoff for working on oneself.
I dunno
Subject: Re: mud
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:21:27 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->Sometimes I think enlightenment is more about ->hosing off the mud from some diamond underneath. ->Sometimes I wonder if there is anything under ->all of the mud at all.
There is talk that Enlightenment is a myth. But what is the myth, Enlightenment or the so called understanding of it ? Is Enlightenment a myth or is the myth the so called meaning of it ? Whatever is not understood, thus meaning being arbitrary, seems to be categorized as myth to be figured out or deciphered. Is Enlightenment a myth or is closure the myth ? Is Enlightenment a myth or is Enlightenment being a noun a myth ?
Ever Unfolding, Enlightenment is just another word for nothing left to let go. THAT is not a myth because THAT has been occurring since time immemerable. It is just that not many have the Courage to Embrace THAT Fully in their *trying* because it is too arduous and too Painful, so the loophole is that Enlightenment is a myth. So is Enlightenment a myth or is the *trying* a myth ? Or is the myth that there is someone to *try* ? Or is the myth that there is something to *try* ? Is Enlightenment a myth or is the myth Duality ? Is Enlightenment really the myth or is the myth a myth ? Enlightenment, then, is in it's BEing and not in it's fathoming.
Subject: Thought this was cute.
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:33:14 -0800
A woman renewing her driver's license at the County Clerk's office. Asked by the woman recorder to state her occupation, Emily had hesitated, uncertain how to classify herself.
"What I mean is," explained the recorder, "do you have job, or are you just a .....?"
"Of course I have a job," snapped Emily. "I'm a mother."
"We don't list 'mother' as an occupation...'housewife' covers it," said the recorder emphatically.
I forgot all about her story until one day I found myself in the same situation, this time at our own Town Hall. The Clerk was obviously a career woman, poised, efficient, and possessed of a high-sounding title like "Official Interrogator" or "Town Registrar."
"What is your occupation?" she probed.
What made me say it, I do not know. The words simply popped out. "I'm a Research Associate in the field of Child Development and Human Relations."
The clerk paused, ball-point pen frozen in midair, and looked up as though she had not heard right. I repeated the title slowly, emphasizing the most significant words. Then I stared with wonder as my pronouncement was written in bold, black ink on the official questionnaire. "Might I ask," said the clerk with new interest, "just what you do in your field?"
Coolly, without any trace of fluster in my voice, I heard myself reply, "I have a continuing program of research (what mother doesn't) in the laboratory and in the field (normally I would have said indoors and out).
I'm working for my Masters (the whole darned family) and already have four credits (all daughters). Of course, the job is one of the most demanding in the humanities (any mother care to disagree?) and I often work 14 hours a day (24 is more like it). But the job is more challenging than most run-of-the-mill careers and the rewards are more of a satisfaction rather than just money."
There was an increasing note of respect in the clerk's voice as she completed the form, stood up, and personally ushered me to the door.
As I drove into our driveway, buoyed up by my glamorous new career, I was greeted by my lab assistants - ages 13, 7, and 3. Upstairs I could hear our new experimental model (6 months) in the child-development program, testing out a new vocal pattern.
I felt triumphant! I had scored a beat on bureaucracy! And I had gone on the official records as someone more distinguished and indispensable to mankind than "just another mother."
Motherhood...what a glorious career. Especially when there's a title on the door.
Send this to another Mother you know. Whether a stay at home Mom or a career Mom, we should all carry this title.
Does this make grandmothers "Senior Research Associates in the field of Child Development and Human Relations" and great grandmothers "Executive Senior Research Associates"? I think so!!!
I also think it makes aunts "Associate Research Assistants".
Subject: Re: Thought this was cute.
From: Olga <starwind.athena@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:54:56 -0500
>Does this make grandmothers "Senior Research Associates in the field >of Child Development and Human Relations" and great grandmothers >"Executive Senior Research Associates"? I think so!!!
Cute story Shar ... I am a mother, a grandmother and soon to be a great - grandmother ....
What does that make me ?? Chairman of the Board ?? :))
Subject: Re: mud
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:12:43 GMT
Greetings again,
Confounding, is it not ? That we are sure that we are at least partially Enlightened yet it is obvious even to us that we have no clue (if we are at least being honest with ourself). Even our deduction that there is no such thing as Enlightenment is Enlightening to us, and even to others. We have given it our best shot yet it never happened, thus it must not be so, a myth. It must just be a game by the ego so Enlightenment can not be so. Problem is that as long as there is ego there is conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sorts, thus Enlightenment can not be an ego thing because Enlightenment is the absence of conditionings and ego. In fact it is the ego that is pacified by our finding that there is no Enlightenment. In fact, that is the Cost of Enlightenment, letting go of the ego and all other conditioned notions. A Price too high for most to Pay. We do not want to Pay the Price so it does not exist.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that such a conclusion that Enlightenment is a myth is the very reason that humanity as a whole has not been able to attain it ? Our best shot is not enough, it takes Everything, the Totality of our very BEing. People are always looking in the wrong places, always looking for the shortcut, always looking for the quick fix. In fact, just looking is already the wrong place. And Enlightenment can not be found because it is nowhere, so we foolishly deceive ourself by thinking Enlightenment is not so. Oh, Enlightenment IS, but we will never Realize/Recognize it as Dualists clinging to and harboring conditioned notions. It is a pity that people keep trying to attain Enlightenment, because the harder they try the further away it seems to get. Enlightenment is not in the trying but rather in the BEing. So it is a matter of just doing it, doing whatever it takes. And if it takes letting go of those dear conditioned notions then we have to let go of the dear conditioned notions. That is, it takes a 100% commitment or we will fall short. And we can not pick and choose what to throw away and what to keep because it all has to go.
All that can be said is that if we feel we must live the Lie, thus miss the Dance, then live the Lie. It is easier and less Painful. We can Pay NOW or we can Pay later, but we will Pay (in more ways than one). The Balancing Agent of the manifested realm will extract Due Payment, in many ways. Such as the Suffering of war and conflict and hatred and greed and corruption and many other ills we Suffer and learn to *live with* daily.
Indeed Enlightenment is a myth as we are conditioned to perceive it, thus the conditionings are more the stumbling block than Enlightenment. When we get hung up on the word we can not See where the word Points, as the name is not that which is named. So as long as we cling to the name, cling to our conditioned notions, cling to Duality, we can never Directly Experience that state of BEing that is not Sleeping. So regardless of what one calls it, Enlightenment or Awakening or CornFlakes, there is indeed "Life beyond Sleeping". But we can not Realize that to be so until we stop using the excuse of trying and "Just Do It", just Wake-Up, just BE the very Enlightenment we are always Seeking but never Finding. Of course the catch is that we have to let go of those dearly beloved conditionings or we will never "know for sure" whether there is "Life beyond Sleeping".
So it would seem that the myth is in our conditioned Dualistic perception rather than in Enlightenment. Though most "give up" because it is too arduous and/or Painful to "find out for sure". Give up and miss the Dance, the Wondrous Dance beyond Sleep.
Subject: effort vs no effort
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:54:02 -0500
"Put all your conscious effort into waking up. Dedicate your life to it. In that way you will be able to drop all unconscious effort, all your resistance to life, and with the ease of an opening flower you will be receptive to what is".
- Gentle Strength
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 05:54:49 GMT
Greetings,
Odd thing about Awakening is that once you start Awakening you wonder why you were so afraid to start years ago. It is like falling off a log. The hard part is letting go of those dear and cherished conditioned notions.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:26:40 GMT
Greetings Ray, you wrote: -> Odd thing about Awakening is that once you start Awakening you wonder ->why you were so afraid to start years ago. It is like falling off a log. ->The hard part is letting go of those dear and cherished conditioned ->notions.
*Deep Bow* Ray, that seems to expose the crux of the problem with the *Enlightenment Game*. And it has turned into quite the Game, making instant millionaires and celebrities out of good Talkers.
Enlightenment/Awakening has nothing to do with Enlightenment/Awakening, it has to do with what is NOT Enlightenment/Awakening. Enlightenment happens all by itself WHEN it is unrestricted/unobstructed by all the defiling clutter we cling to ever so dearly and harbor lest we perish (so we think). We can not find Enlightenment or have it or even hold it, the slippery varmint. In fact, it eludes all Detection. It is not anywhere. So it seems that we may as well Forget about it and let it find itself (if it can). That just leave all the defiling clutter to Clean up, so we may as well concentrate on that. After all, that is all there seems to be. Concentrating on the clutter, Cleaning that up, filling a few large roll-off dumpsters, perhaps by that time Enlightenment will find itself and come more out in the Open.
It would seem, though, that we should be Mindful not to break a leg falling off that log. It could be a pretty Great Fall if the Log is Big. They could not even put Humpty Dumpy back together again after his Great Fall {8-|
Subject: Is there a Midway?
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:08:57 -0500
Great morning to everyone,
I am just wondering: is there a midway between two absolute extremes of atheism/rationality/logic and devout religion/faith? If so, what is that and how to go about it? And also where does spirituality fit into this scheme of a purist thought, if it does?
Subject: Re: Is there a Midway?
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:11:38 GMT
Greetings Ram, you wrote: ->I am just wondering: is there a midway between two absolute extremes of ->atheism/rationality/logic and devout religion/faith? If so, what is that and ->how to go about it? And also where does spirituality fit into this scheme of ->a purist thought, if it does?
The Middle Path is Pathless, Niti Niti. To traverse the Narrows is to incline neither to the Left nor to the Right yet be Mindful of both, for both are but Illusion stirred in the caldron of conditioned thinking/behavior. The Middle Path is the Freedom to BE the True Nature that you ARE, Witnessing the ever changing kaleidoscope of Delusion. Unattached to either Left or Right, maintaining unconditioned Apperception in thought and deed is the Middle Way, a cool refreshing Pathway through the Fires of Hell. So the Middle Path is not that there is a Middle Path but rather that the Middle Path is Pathless, and simply BEing the Path that you ARE without the conditioned Left or Right. So the Middle Path is being undefiled by conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sorts. So the Middle Path is letting go of what the Middle Path IS-NOT thus BEing what the Middle Path IS, doing whatever needs done to BE the Pathless Path.
"Spirituality" is usually just a buzz-word with a myriad of meanings/definitions associated with it to fit most every occasion, as the buzz-term "purist thought". Such words are usually relative to the content of one's conditionings, thus establishing a Left or Right, defiling a Middle Path. Awakening is not about either spirituality or purist thought, but rather clinging to neither though both *seem* to be present. For Awakening is really just another word for no conditioned notions left to let go. So Awakening IS Nothing (No-Thing), neither this nor that, Pathless.
Subject: Re: Is there a Midway?
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:41:23 +0000
Hi Ram,
Your question seems to suggest that perhaps "logic" and "faith" exist at opposite ends of a shared spectrum - but does it?!
Faith has no variance of degree or a counterpart - you either have faith - or you don't. It's an all-or-nothing proposition - not unlike being "a little bit pregnant" - you either are - or you're not. What was it that Christ allegedly said? Something like..."If you had faith the size of a mustard seed - you could move mountains". Something like that.
Your computer is the epitomy of "logic" - performing millions of flawless calculation per second - but despite the ever-increasing sophistication of hardware and software - a computer will never develop the slightest degree of "faith". I would suppose that "randomness" resides at the opposite end of logic's scale/spectrum - with perhaps "hope" and "speculation" residing somewhere in between.
So to answer your question...what lies "between two absolute extremes of atheism/rationality/logic and devout religion/faith?" Answer: A bottomless chasm - which requires a proverbial "leap of faith" to cross - as the two are unbridged and completely disconnected.
love & grace, oren
Subject: Re: Is there a Midway?
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:52:34 -0500
Hi EJ, Oren , et all,
Thanks a lot for your unique input. Respect your view points. In reciprocation, I am also sharing with you a friend's view point that seems incorporating much of the way I see the midway:
>>>...Then there are ways, which I find work best, but which take practice: integrating both, science and spirituality fully into your life, your habits, and your personality. Using logic to sort, understand, and calculate what needs sorting, understanding, and calculating, and Faith to find meaning. That's how I understand the term "wisdom," as a fertile, creative way of integrating both your logical, analytical skills and your being connected with all that is, as well as your ability to find awareness of that (both the connection and the integration). It's all about balance.....".<<<
And with this balance, I would be inclined to add that a person can see the whole world with a sense of amusement, sort of.
Thanks once again for your great input, all of you. Much appreciate it.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:53:22 GMT
Greetings,
Problem is that we are always one step behind and/or one step ahead of ourself. We either hold back because we are afraid of where we are, or we run from where we are again due to fear. Knowing ourself, being ourself, knowing and being where we are, is way too Painful for Sleeping to bear. So, actually unbeknownst to us, the stress is not from trying to be ahead but rather the Fear we may be caught where we are.
Subject: Tid-Bit
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:03:43 GMT
"The more awake one is to the material world, the more one is asleep to spirit. When our soul is asleep to God, other wakefulness closes the door of Divine grace." -- Rumi
Subject: Re: Tid-Bit
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:16:48 -0500
I beg to differ
> "The more awake one is to the material world, > the more one is asleep to spirit. > When our soul is asleep to God, > other wakefulness closes the door of Divine grace."
Subject: Re: Tid-Bit
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:05:02 GMT
Greetings J, you wrote: ->I beg to differ -> ->> "The more awake one is to the material world, ->> the more one is asleep to spirit. ->> When our soul is asleep to God, ->> other wakefulness closes the door of Divine grace." ->> -- Rumi
*Roaring Laughter* Yes, you are not alone on that one, as most of humanity differs right along with you. It is a *herd* trait. Those who cling to the phenomenal realm, cling to their conditioned notions, find it quite revolting to let go. The herd always differs with the likes of the Sufi Sage Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi, who spent a large share of his life trying to figure out why people Suffered so. Then one day, just like Siddhartha, he Realized/Recognized that the Cause of Suffering was the attachment to the phenomenal realm of *things*. It would seem quite obvious. Rumi put it quite kindly, I would simply say that while Sleeping you are going to Suffer yet when you Wake-Up you will no longer Suffer because you have let go of all the toxic conditioned defilements which are the Cause of that Suffering.
As odd as it may seem, you really do not let go of the *things* you just let go of the attachment to them. So people can still lead an everyday life Awakening, yet they refuse to Wake-Up because they are conditioned to *believe* just the opposite. So they keep right on Sleeping and get used to the Suffering. Seems a bit self-destructive to me. Live with the wars and conflict and hatred and greed and selfishness and corruption just to keep Sleeping ? It would seem that they have better things to do. Of course the pharmacist where they get the Sleeping pills the Grand Trickster differs with me on that one. I guess it all depends on the differ, either differ dis or differ dat.
Subject: Re: Tid-Bit
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:05:55 -0500
Hey EJ,
> "The more awake one is to the material world,
notice he said "awake" to the material world, not "attached". When I truly look at this wooden desk I sit next to (a material thing), I sense the spirit of it. Paying keen attention to my surroundings (material world) I become aware of it; I see that Charlie, a mentally handicapped person I take care of, is in a bad mood. This I become aware of from "being awake to the material world", Charlie's facial expression, the glass of water he throws to the floor, etc.
> ->> the more one is asleep to spirit.
Yes, the Grand Trickster would indeed seperate spirit from materia. It does tend to cut up the Whole and distort the picture.
> ->> When our soul is asleep to God, > ->> other wakefulness closes the door of Divine > grace."
agreed.
Perhaps you meant caught up in the material world, as in chasing your own tale while seeking happiness in money, sex, drugs, faster cars, etc etc. This is quite obvious, no disagreement there.
In Light, J
Subject: Re: Tid-Bit
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:53:44 GMT
Greetings J, you wrote: ->> "The more awake one is to the material world, -> ->notice he said "awake" to the material world, not "attached". When I ->truly look at this wooden desk I sit next to (a material thing), I sense ->the spirit of it. Paying keen attention to my surroundings (material ->world) I become aware of it; I see that Charlie, a mentally handicapped ->person I take care of, is in a bad mood. This I become aware of from ->"being awake to the material world", Charlie's facial expression, the ->glass of water he throws to the floor, etc.
It seems that the Point was missed. Considering that Rumi lived in the time of 1207-1273, that should be a consideration of language in itself not to mention that he attained a high level of achievement in the most mystical of so called spiritual orders the Sufi -- mystic Islam. Which means that he went through Hell and High Water and made it Back in his Unfolding Awakening. That into consideration, you were not on the same page as he when you *reacted* with "I beg to differ". This is one of the reasons that *reactions* are defilements. Instead of *reacting* with conditioned notions when we do not understand some offering it seems that we would better understood by finding out what the offering meant first. For Rumi was not talking about mental awareness but rather the Apperception AS BEing. In fact, he was saying that what you have to do is get out of the mental mode of perceiving and get into the BEing mode of Apperception. Mentally we only see our own projected ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sorts, hence the saying that we are creators of our world. But since that is but an Illusion, it is all in your head. Those who cling to the mental and thus the senses will only be able to understand that which is mental and sense oriented. Far more limiting than Rumi was talking about.
->> ->> the more one is asleep to spirit. -> ->Yes, the Grand Trickster would indeed seperate spirit from materia. It ->does tend to cut up the Whole and distort the picture.
Ah, so you do not differ quite as much as your first reaction.
->> ->> When our soul is asleep to God, ->> ->> other wakefulness closes the door of Divine ->> grace." -> -> agreed.
Ah, even non-differ.
->Perhaps you meant caught up in the material world, as in chasing your own ->tale while seeking happiness in money, sex, drugs, faster cars, etc etc. ->This is quite obvious, no disagreement there.
I guess it all depends on the differ, Astrologically speaking it could be either the big differ or the little differ {8-> And down home they say "hand me the chili differ". Of course an old differ might say "what's the dif ?" As Sharlene says, "Idunno".
Subject: Opinions ?
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 03:52:45 GMT
Milarepa's words just after dying: "Dearest to my heart, abandon your old concepts - realize your encompassing emptiness and dissolve all duality." So told by his mourners.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 05:53:24 GMT
Greetings,
Just because one walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and even looks like a duck, one does not have to be a duck. The duck hunter may disguise oneself as a duck and quack like a duck to attract ducks to have for dinner. Likewise, the Turkeys best Wake-Up or they will be Thanksgiving Dinner for the Grand Trickster.
º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º
Light Mission's E-Mail Discussion Community Forum
The great Path has no Gates, thousands of roads enter it. When one passes through this Gateless Gate he Walks freely between Heaven and Earth.
"Let There Be Light
-- Always in All Ways"
http://www.Light-Mission.org
"Light Mission's
Private Postings/Teachings"
Yogajyotii@Light-Mission.org
"Light Mission's
Newsletter/Lessons"
http://www.Light-Mission.org/Newsletter.html
"Light Mission's
Ray Of Light"
http://www.Light-Mission.org/Ray.of.Light.html
"Light Mission Books"
http://www.Light-Mission.org/LM_Books.html
If
you want to go to the main index page "Let
There Be Light", just click
on the icon to the left and you will be taken there.
|
|
If you have comments or suggestions or just want to talk, email me at
©
2003 - This page created and maintained by
Page Wizard: Page_Wizard@Page-Wizard.com
or see our services at:
Page Wizard Page
Design