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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ January - Page 1 ~
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Subject: just a thought
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:01:11 -0800
Personally I sometimes think that all these great sages, masters, wise men, don't know it all. It's funny how one can find a quote, and another finds another one in answer to it. Each one reflecting the thoughts and space of the self. Observing is a part of it but it is not the whole of it. It is the learning or unlearning through the observation of self that one takes the unobserved effortless steps along the pathless path. One can to observe their emotions, their personality, their five senses, and yet, this is not the experience either. The experience is not in the observing but the doing. Doing in awareness, not being attached to the observing. One can be an observer all their lives and remain in the suffering. One can be aware of their suffering and do nothing. No effort is not effortless effort.Then again, I know nothing, opening to constant change. May your moments be filled with peace and joy, may you be full of peace and joy, may you be peace and joy. Peace and joy.
Blessings to all
Subject: A couple of Observation
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:08:50 EST
All unhappiness is rooted in the subconscious belief that our unhappiness/resistance to what is, will change the undesirable condition(s) into one that is desirable. In reality it is our very resistance that creates the most suffering, not the hair in the sink or the unwashed dishes.
The birth of this notion can be observed in the parents that freak out as soon as their children our crying. There is something that must be "fixed", and so a piece of rubber is buried in the toddler's mouth, and distraction devices such as plastic self-playing instruments or tv is being bombarded on the child. On top of this the kid will get life-alienating ideas to natural emotional rythms.
Subject: observing the mind
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 15:50:32 EST
I would say that in the transitory stages when the mind is no longer being fed but because of its gigantic momentum, continuous to chatter habitually, observing the mind is quite useful. In the light of the undivided attention/consciousness, the self arising thoughts dissolve.
The danger is of judging the thoughts - thought thinking about thought - which will lead to energy depleteion and frustration, an endless digging around in the "me-noise", which is quite depressing.
Observing the mind is not to be confused with feeding the thoughts with your Attention, but rather understood as being mindful of what IS in the moment, be it illusion or not. Seeing the resistance pattersn in my own mind has been of a great help for me personally.
best regards to you all,
Johannes
Subject: Re: just a thought
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 21:16:20 GMT
Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->Personally I sometimes think that all these great sages, masters, -> wise men, don't know it all.
Well, I do not know about them knowing everything there is to know, but what matters is that they know the important ingredients to Wake-Up. Which is all we really look to them for anyway. Really does not matter whether they "know it all" but rather that they know where to Point us to the Light while we are stumbling around in the Dark bumping into Walls. It would seem that as long as they can See Clearly what they know and also See Clearly what they do not know and also See Clearly the difference, they would be a pretty Great Wise Master to me.
-> It's funny how one can find a quote, and another finds another one in -> answer to it. Each one reflecting the thoughts and space of the self. -> Observing is a part of it but it is not the whole of it. It is the learning -> or unlearning through the observation of self that one takes the -> unobserved effortless steps along the pathless path.
This is True. Many use quotes to mean what they themselves want to portray when the quote actually Points elsewhere when used in the context that the quote was taken from. Used out of context, any quote can show just about anything. And the use of quotes, though good to start discussion or to Point out similarities, really do little more than set up a data base of *Wise Words* perhaps for a book of quotations. When the person is offering the Wise Words themselves, so that clarification can be gleaned by an Open Honest Receptive inquirer, THEN is when some real Help/Progress can be had. But just offering a lot of quotes just shows that someone can read, though they may misinterpret it.
-> One can to observe their emotions, their personality, their five senses, -> and yet, this is not the experience either. The experience is not in the -> observing but the doing. Doing in awareness, not being attached to the ->observing.
Yes, we must observe every thought and every action in a Self-Observing, questioning everything we think and do. But that is only the first part. The next part is doing whatever needs doing about the defiling conditionings we See in our Self-Observation to rid ourself of them. Awakening is a verb, an action word. Which is, that Awakening is not just about Observing/Witnessing but rather BEing that which is Observed/Witnessed. Observation/Witnessing is just to say that you are not attached to the Observation, that you simple BE Present and do whatever needs doing AS the Present. You simply ARE, simply DOing, Whatever-IS. No connection yet no separation. A Flow, a Dance, AS the phenomenal realm of Causality. Nothing to cling to because there is no one to cling to it even if there was something to cling to. All the Multiplicity AS a Unity in unison with All that is THAT. A Melody of seeming events, yet an Overture that is Life.
-> One can be an observer all their lives and remain in the suffering. One can -> be aware of their suffering and do nothing.
Sadly True. All the Wise Words in the Cosmos, when nothing is done with them other than display them, when not looking where they may Point, is about as useless as adding sand to the desert. All the King's Horses and all the King's Men, could not put Humpty Dumpty back Together again. And that was not a wise Crack.
->No effort is not effortless -> effort.
True when Sleeping because we have this conditioned notion about effort to overcome. Yet when Awakening, Effortlessness is quite Effortless because we do not have the conditioned notion of effort to overcome. It is an effort to overcome the effort, but when overcome effort is quite Effortless. In fact, it is just part of the Dance.
->Then again, I know nothing, opening to constant change.
Wow, that is what Great Sages and Wise Men and Masters say -- are you related ?
-> May your moments be filled with peace and joy, may you be full of peace -> and joy, may you be peace and joy. Peace and joy.
Nice Song for the Dance. So........ Walk for a while, and you will See Wonders unbeknownst before - you will See the Wonder of YOU. There is but One Miracle in all of manifested form, and that Miracle is YOU. The Mirror of Truth is held up for you to Truly See that Miracle. Of course looking into the Mirror of Truth is not without Pain, for it reflects our flaws and Causes of our Suffering. Oh yes, we can turn away from the Mirror of Truth and thus avoid the Pain but we would miss the Dance - the Cosmic Dance of Awakening to the Miracle that we ARE. Come........... Dance.
Subject: Further investigation regarding observing the mind
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:37:44 EST
Mahesh,
I've let our conversation sink in more...
When one is the mind (completely identified with it), can one be aware of it? You say that while sleeping we do listen to the monkey mind of thoughts, but it seems to me that as long as our attention is paralyzed by the images and notions, there is an unconscious state in place. In that blindness, there is no true listening/seeing the thoughts because there is no distance to the mind, it has completely engulfed you -the attention - it has become you through the unconscious identification with it. Can you tsate your own tongue? See your own eyes?
Subject: Re: Further investigation regarding observing the mind
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:39:34 -0800
Hello Johannes, ->I've let our conversation sink in more...
A healthy exercise. So you stopped listening to your thoughts for a while perhaps. It is not that hard to do.
->When one is the mind (completely identified with it), can one be aware of it?
If you identified with the mind you would be identifying with 'nothing'. I think you are associating the mind with thinking. You can identify with what you think by you can not identify with the mind because the mind is simply the resulting aether of the electromagnetic charges between the synapsis of the brain. So by identifying with this aether you are identifying with 'no-thing'. Identifying with 'no-thing' is the same as identifying with a 'thing', attachment, clinging, defilement. But first you have to learn more about the mind. So the first step is already erroneous.
-> You say that while sleeping we do listen to the monkey mind of thoughts, but ->it seems to me that as long as our attention is paralyzed by the images and ->notions, there is an unconscious state in place. In that blindness, there is ->no true listening/seeing the thoughts because there is no distance to the ->mind, it has completely engulfed you -the attention - it has become you ->through the unconscious identification with it.
No, you do not listen to your mind exactly, you listen to what you think. The thoughts are listened to. So it leaves your trying to justify listening to a defiled mind also erroneous. Mind defiled by influenced/biased thoughts. When you 'empty' the mind of the defiling thoughts it is no longer defiled. It is just the mind, that is inherently a wonderful tool but little more. Do not attribute shortcomings to it that do not exist. You seem to be trying to rationalize letting your mind play with the defilements. It just makes you deaf. You can not keep some and get rid of others, you have to dump the whole lot. You have to start out fresh and clear. Do you eat your meals on dirty dishes? If not then why start off with defilements when trying to awaken? A little illogical it seems.
->Can you tsate your own tongue? See your own eyes?
When you 'empty' the mind of the defiling thoughts you seem to like to cling to, you will 'be' the tongue and you will 'be' the eye. Then when you 'are' the tongue and eye you will fully 'understand' them because they 'are' you. You will be able to taste and see them in your mind's eye. Sometimes called the 'third eye'. Then you will 'understand' that the whole of the universe is in every speck of dust and in every atom of all existence. But you can not do it as long as there is always 'two'. When the taste 'is' the tongue and the seeing 'is' the eye, then and only then will you have a chance to awaken. To 'be' awake there can only 'be' 'one'. You will never awaken hanging on to the words or thoughts because they mostly get in the way.
It really seems that you do not want to awaken though, because you seem to be arguing against 'emptying' or 'silencing' or 'stilling' the mind. Because just talking about it is a side-step around it, you either have to do it or not. And you can study until you go blind or feeble of health, even with the most enlightened masters, but if you do not apply it to yourself it will only gather dust because it will never help awaken you. If you want to succeed in the world get knowledgable, if you want to succeed at waking up get rid of what you 'think'. That thinking is that inner dialog that keeps the mind busy. Shut it up and you will be able to put the mind to some 'real' use.
Subject: Re: Further investigation regarding observing the mind
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 23:45:00 EST
Mahesh,
What was meant when I said "identification with mind" was identification with the contents of the mind. We swedes are sometimes sloppy with learning correct english.
<< It really seems that you do not want to awaken though, because you seem to be arguing against 'emptying' or 'silencing' or 'stilling' the mind.
No. I am saying that it is useless to fight with the thoughts, fighting in the sense of resisting them. It is a fight that cannot be won. It is like solving violence with violence. I am saying that observing the activities of the mind (thoughts, emotions, desires, etc) - being aware of what is going on inside of you - is the first step in silencing the mind and eventually the very observer. This stepping back and looking at the strategies of the mind to avoid the present moment will eventually lead you to see that the thoughts are not needed. Without this realization, the awareness without the observer will never be, but the observer must come to life before he can melt away into emptiness filled to the rim of wakefulness.
In Light and Compassion,
johannes
Subject: Re: Further investigation regarding observing the mind
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:10:25 -0800
Hello Johannes ->What was meant when I said "identification with mind" was identification ->with ->the contents of the mind. We swedes are sometimes sloppy with learning ->correct english.
Ah.
-><< It really seems that you do not want to awaken though, -> because you seem to be arguing against 'emptying' or -> 'silencing' or 'stilling' the mind. -> -> No. I am saying that it is useless to fight with the thoughts, fighting ->in ->the sense of resisting them. It is a fight that cannot be won. It is like ->solving violence with violence.
No argument here. You should not fight them, just dismiss them. Turn them off. Get rid of them. Fight the 'cause' not the 'suffering'. You fight the 'suffering' so there is no end to it because the 'cause' is still very much an active principle. The 'cause' being anything that would influence an otherwise unencumbered awareness. Get rid of the 'causes' that you have gathered all of your life, gifts from friends and family because they want you to be just like them. Bless their heart, but...
-> I am saying that observing the activities ->of ->the mind (thoughts, emotions, desires, etc) - being aware of what is going ->on ->inside of you - is the first step in silencing the mind and eventually the ->very observer.
Not the first step, because people have been doing that for a very long time and yet are still totally oblivious to the demise it is causing. Because, you see, the more attention you pay to it the harder it is to get rid of it. It is very convincing, and will not let up until you go along with it. So just observing it just gives it more power over you. And fool yourself thinking that just observing it will render it noneffective. So it is not so much the thoughts that you want to pay attention to but rather the result or effect the thoughts have on your thinking and of course on what you do. Then you can see the thoughts as 'causes'. Yes, step back from the picture to get a more overall view. Self observation is more inclusive than looking at thoughts and emotions and desires and whatever.
->This stepping back and looking at the strategies of the mind to avoid the ->present moment will eventually lead you to see that the thoughts are not ->needed.
You mean strategies of thinking? Or strategies of thoughts? Because the mind is just the mind and has no strategies. But you are still too close to the picture. The fallacy in dividing things up too much is that when you get to close to the fire you get burnt. Use some concentration technique to 'silence' the thoughts so you can handle them one at a time. The battle is easier one on one rather than trying to take them all on at once.
-> Without this realization, the awareness without the observer will ->never be, but the observer must come to life before he can melt away into ->emptiness filled to the rim of wakefulness.
Ha ha, the seeker must seek in order to find, right? It's when the observer becomes the observed that there is awareness because then the observer 'is' the observed. When you have an observer who is observing then there can not be 'emptiness' because 'emptiness' is not 'two'. So there can not be any melting or wakefulness either.
I think you are trying to push the horse with the cart. You have to stop the thoughts, not study them because as you are studying them they are talking to you. Don't listen. Pay them no heed. Then you can keep the cart where it is and let the horse pull it. Much simpler. Do not complicate things, it will only clutter up the simple and usually make things worse.
Namaste
Subject: Re: just a thought
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:38:16 -0800
>Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: >->Personally I sometimes think that all these great sages, masters, >-> wise men, don't know it all. > > Well, I do not know about them knowing everything there is to know, >but what matters is that they know the important ingredients to Wake-Up.
HI, The reason I say that is because one will many times seem to contradict another. Or perhaps it is the interpretation through the intellect that sees a contradiction.
> Used out of context, any quote can show >just about anything.
Yes, and on many lists as Ma was saying, are used as a excuse not a reason, for not being open to change. Change is work, and so few wish to the work, and yet wish the results of having done the work.
>And the use of quotes, though good to start >discussion or to Point out similarities, really do little more than set up >a data base of *Wise Words* perhaps for a book of quotations.
Exactly my point. There are only few words that are needed. They are, wake up, your coffee is getting cold. .
> But just offering a lot of quotes just shows >that someone can read, though they may misinterpret it.
Yes.
> Awakening is a verb, an action word. Which is, that Awakening is >not just about Observing/Witnessing but rather BEing that which is >Observed/Witnessed.
The keyword is being. Just be what you want to be and it shall happen. You never know when it will happen, if it did happen, therefore just being and just doing becomes just is what is. Transition without recognition.
> A Melody of seeming events, yet an >Overture that is Life.
yes, as the silence between the notes make the music.
> It is an effort to overcome the effort, but when overcome >effort is quite Effortless. In fact, it is just part of the Dance.
Yes. Glad you recognize that, ha ha .
> Wow, that is what Great Sages and Wise Men and Masters say -- are you >related ?
Nah, just spoke to a few of them for a moment. ha They are all there when you connect, you just have to see them in your minds eye. .
> Nice Song for the Dance. So........ >Walk for a while, >and you will See Wonders unbeknownst before - >you will See the Wonder of YOU.
Who? lol
It's a crazy wet kind of day.
Subject: Re: just a thought
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 03:03:56 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->HI, The reason I say that is because one will many times seem to contradict ->another. Or perhaps it is the interpretation through the intellect that ->sees a contradiction.
Yes Dear Friend, any seeming contradiction between the words of any who are actually Awakening will be in the mind of the beholder (the interpretation). For all who ARE Awakening, though the language and the words and the manner of delivery may differ, IF it is Truth they all will be saying the same thing. In their own way due to the various routes that take to get to the Path, but Truth is always AS it IS and never varies. Will not vary from person to person nor from era to era. Though indeed, the depth of Understanding/Realization/Recognition of Truth varies due to one's potential of Awakening due to one's degree of Evolution/Involution. But the various depths of Truth will still be that very same Truth. And when Truth is Understood/Realized/Recognized at any depth it is Understood/Realized/Recognized to be just a varied depth of the very same Truth. It stands alone and need no one to support it. The real contradictions come into play when we have the "my truth" and the "your truth", because they have nothing to do with Truth.
->Yes, and on many lists as Ma was saying, are used as a excuse not a reason, ->for not being open to change. Change is work, and so few wish to the work, ->and yet wish the results of having done the work.
Yes, that is one of the reasons that I am "pasturing" {8-> They only listen to themselves, and get down right angry when one would dare to bring Truth into the discussion. They warship dead Sages and declare that they understand the Wise Words and use them as Scripture. Yet may I offer that the Cosmos is the only True Scripture and only the Wise can Understand it. But they do not *read it* or *post it*, they ARE it. And so when they Point to THAT Cosmos it is because they are BEing it, and not because they *read it* or *posted it*.
Yes, to let go of all those conditioned ideas and images and meanings would seem to them to be letting go of themselves. Which is the case actually, letting go of who they *think* they are, letting go of who they are conditioned to be. Frightening. Almost as frightening as the Fear of death. Their two greatest Fears, to lose their identity (as false as it may be) and to lose what they think they possess. They even Parrot the notion of getting rid of the ego and the *I* complex, but as the old saying goes: "action talks, b.s. walks" (action shows the Truth, hot air is sent down the road). But they seem to be having fun at their Masquerade Ball, and seem to be fooling each other. The sad part is that they have been doing it so long that they have fooled themselves.
->Exactly my point. There are only few words that are needed. They are, wake ->up, your coffee is getting cold. .
Yes, and sometimes none. No expression is still an expression.
->The keyword is being. Just be what you want to be and it shall happen. You ->never know when it will happen, if it did happen, therefore just being and ->just doing becomes just is what is. Transition without recognition.
BE, yes, but what they *want* is not always what they get. As the only acceptable seeming *Desire* would be to Awaken, all other Desires are sense oriented and are most defiling to Awakening. Awakening is always happening, it is a verb.
->Who? lol
And now you are trying to be an Owl ? }-_-{
->It's a crazy wet kind of day.
The bathroom is just down the hall to your right. You can not miss it, it has this sign on the door that reads "For Crazy Wet Kind Of Days".
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:45:05 GMT
Greetings,
Your life is but a continuous series of Dreams, thus Sleeping nothing is what is seems.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 06:01:43 GMT
Greetings,
NOW, manifest THAT Energy into every aspect your BEing and BE THAT Energy. THAT is your task if you are up to *challenge*.
Subject: Prison
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:06:56 -0800
"Are you searching for your soul? Then come out of your prison. Leave the stream and join the river that flows into the ocean. Absorbed in this world you've made it your burden. Rise above this world. There is another vision..."
-- Rumi
Subject: Free At Last
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:50:46 -0800
"You win the battle but you lose the war. You gain your bobbles and trinkets and self-worth and cling to them as a mark of success - the battle. Impermanent sense objects held. Thus you Fear their end. As your end is their end. You have not succeeded in ending your end. The war. Ever Present yet you cowardly run to win minor temporary battles. It is the only battle that is worthy of winning. As it lies in the domain of the EverLasting. There is no success higher than succeeding in getting Free of the cycle of birth and death." -- Sri Yogayuktaatmaa
Subject: Too Concerned
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:53:22 -0800
"You are too concerned about Waking-Up, so just relax. That for which you grasp you push ever further away from you. Pay more Attention to What-ISNOT so that What-IS can surely BE. When you forget where you have been and where you want to go, then and only then will you Know yourself, will you Know where you ARE. In this Knowing there is unknowing, thus an instantaneous spontaneous ever anew Unfolding Infinite Eternal Waking-Up. Because you are not concerned." -- Sri Yogayuktaatmaa
Subject: What has happened to me?
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:07:56 -0800
What has happened to me?
All these songs tell one story: that of Lalla on a lake, not knowing what sandbar I'll run aground on.
What kind of luck have I had?
I made harmony out of a man's clumsy plastering job on the ceiling.
Still I wonder which sandbank will strand me.
And how is it now with me?
Magnificent, this becoming more and more awake.
- Lalla 14th Century North Indian mystic
Subject: THAT is IT
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:49:54 -0800
"BE MindLess, nothing is different to articulate mentally. BE Silent, BE Still, BE Void, BE Awake. AS Silence All is Heard AS Stillness All is Motion AS Presence AS Empty All is Full AS Void All is Seen AS the Moment from Moment to Moment Eternally ever anew. You can not be a Lamp unto yourself until you Clean the lamp of defiling soot. This IS That That IS This This/That IS It It IS thus IS What-IS." -- Sri Yogayuktaatmaa
Subject: A Tale
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:15:04 -0800
"You chase your thoughts thinking they are other than what they are. They are but mimes masquerading for your amusement though the amusement is short lived. So it is not the tail you chase, but the tale. Yet the tale is too long to chase even if there was someone to chase it. Smell the coffee it is later than you think and miles to go before you can rest. You are your Suffering so get out of your way. Let go of the tale and there will be nothing to chase nor anyone to chase the imaginary tale." -- Sri Yogayuktaatmaa
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:47:57 GMT
Greetings,
We must look for and find jobs and money and housing and all the things needed to sustain ourselves. Responding to the Moment is not removing ourselves from every day life, it is doing what must be done AS the Moment AT the Moment.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 05:36:46 GMT
Greetings,
A sad commentary on humanity that it has evolved/involved for close to a million years only to BE an automaton. Our journey has been long, yet where have we gotten ? We have changed a lot physically, but the Grand Trickster keeps our mind in the primordial mud.
Subject: BE
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 07:07:31 -0800
"Empty is Full, as full is empty. It is in unknowing the unessential knowns that All that is essential IS Known. Thus the less you know the more you Know. When there are no self-arising thoughts there is Pure Thinking or Pure Thought. When there is no yesterday and when there is no tomorrow there is only What-IS right NOW. So BE this Moment as though there never was a past Moment to regret or cling to nor a future Moment to Desire as though it is your very last Moment. Unfettered by what was and what will be you can BE the True Nature that you ARE." -- Sri Yogayuktaatmaa
Subject: Let Go
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:41:05 -0800
"When mind is quiet, all is Self. When mind moves the world arises, so be still, throw away everything, and be free. Then, when mind is pure, you will see Self in all beings. Give up seeing with the outer eye and the Divine eye will open."
- Papaji
Subject: Re: Let Go
From: "Ram Varma" <ramvarma1@rogers.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 03:19:07 -0500
Hi Ma,
Thanks for sharing an extremely powerful statement by Pappaji. I assume Pappaji is the same person Sri H.W.L. Poonja, author of "The Truth Is". Relevant to the quote, in the meditation section of his book, Mr. Poonja shared his technique of "Om" meditation with sound vibration and soundless vibration at the throat. He said, he would later tell other two techniques of "OM" meditation for the crown center (self-connection) and the universal connection (Brahman). Since, after having done his job, Mr.Poonja has gone to the yonder world, I was wondering if you or any of his associates would like to share these two techniques. That information would be helpful for quieting the mind and being the Self.
Also, if you don't mind sharing your views re: the differences between the Self and Conscience.
Also if you have any information re: Mr.Poonja and/or Sri Ramana Maharshi meditation groups in Toronto, Canada, I would appreciate knowing that too.
My apologies if I have asked too much of information. However, this is all relevant to the beautiful quote you have been very kind to share.
Subject: Re: Let Go
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:23:45 -0800
Hello Ram, ->Hi Ma, -> ->Thanks for sharing an extremely powerful statement by Pappaji. I assume ->Pappaji is the same person Sri H.W.L. Poonja, author of "The Truth Is".
One in the same person. But the finger that points to the moon is not the moon.
Subject: Re: Let Go
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:59:23 GMT
Greetings Ma, you wrote: ->One in the same person. ->But the finger that points to the moon ->is not the moon.
*Deep Bow* Ma and Poonja. Yet the KEY to all else is: "You simply have to watch: where does mind arise from? Where does thought come from? What is the source of this thought?" -- Poonja Observe and question every thought, and ask yourself 'why is this thought ?' and 'where is this thought from ?' and 'what purpose is this thought ?' And at the root of all those thoughts and all those programs you will See that the Grand Trickster is hard at work fashioning them. Poonja, as many others who offer us words of Wisdom, did not have such words as *conditioning* at their disposal to use. This is a Fact that so many Students overlook, that these Wise Sages tell us What-IS and we bath in it, yet they also tell us What-ISNOT but we fail to Recognize it because THAT is where we are. They tell us how to Realize What-IS but they are not speaking in terms that we readily understand. They did not have the words to say *you are conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons* so they used the words at their disposal to say the same thing. But we Realize it not.
Could that be the reason that after all these years of studying Wise words, and even devoting ourself to their concepts, that we still war and conflict with others and hate and crime rates ever rise ? The Wise words and Sages and Scriptures have been with us for a very long time, yet is the Suffering any less now than it ever was ? Do we now have more Peace ? Do we now have more Love and Compassion and Empathy ? Or do we now just have more Parrots ?
Subject: Re: Let Go
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 16:41:49 GMT
Greetings Community,
Pacas LaRue is a cowboy friend who is an ardent world traveler, from rodeo to rodeo and from event to event and from horse to horse. He has broken just about every bone in his body, not to mention his broken home. The thrill of the game, it seems. Considered by him, at rodeo times, the highlights of his life. But the only gold he has to show for his efforts and troubles is the gold in his belt buckle. Likened perhaps to the ardent Seeker, who goes from school of thought to school of thought and belief system to belief system and from practice to practice. Who has been disappointed with every endeavor, not to mention the frustration. The thrill of the game, it seems. Considered by him, during the practices, the highlights of his life. But the only Awakening he has seemingly gleaned is the Awakening spoken about in a book on his shelf.
"Ride boldly ride, the shade replied, if you seek for Eldorado". "Quoth the raven, Nevermore". The ultimate practice is BEing It. And BEing It is not a practice, but rather dropping off the heavy Baggage that clouds one's Apperception. Just BE, without the conditionings. Then each Moment will be a highlight of Life, as each Moment is anew. Too much clutter is a fire trap, that feeds the Inferno of Hell.
Subject: Observation
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 05:43:05 GMT
Greetings Community,
Is it not odd that when people are stressed by some outside cause that they seem to get claustrophobic ? That is, stay in more and watch more television or whatever else that may occupy them. Perhaps to hide from some unseen force ? Or some form of guilt or Fear ? Or perhaps just a distraction from the stress ? People look so sad. And a false smile does not hide the Pain or stress.
Those engaged in the drudgery of everyday life, watching the clock and calendar waiting for and anticipating the highlight of the week, live their life highlight to highlight. What about the time to come when there are no more highlights ? More distractions ? The End ?
The urge of the True Nature Rising to the surface amongst the clutter, the obvious is hidden and the simple is complicated. Influenced and thus directed in some comatose state. The Price too high, the Cost too great. Is it worth it ? Bewildered, beguiled, confused, nowhere to go but back. The Wonder unknown, the Miracle unseen, the Opus undone. To Return again.
An enigma ? Or a trap ?
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:02:30 GMT
Greetings,
To Wake-Up is not the reason for manifested form, for manifested form is already Awake. However, being here, we have been lead down the rosy garden path by the Grand Trickster who keeps us sedated with his conditioned notions so that we will not Directly Experience manifested form AS it IS. For you see, when we can Directly Experience the manifested form that we ARE, we can get on with the business of Involution. Evolution is a matter of coarse for manifested form, so that will Unfold in spite of the Grand Trickster (though I am sure that he would like to control and manipulate that too). Though bare in mind that our Involution does effect our Evolution. But our Involution, our refinement of the Consciousness that we ARE, our continual Awakening, is another matter. The Grand Trickster can and does stifle our Involution, for Sleeping we can not Involve. So to get the Natural coarse of Evolution/Involution back on track, as it were, we must wake up and boot the Grand Trickster out from behind the wheel of our lives, of our Evolution/Involution -- which is the Natural coarse of the manifesting Consciousness that we ARE. We were Awake and on track, then we put each other to Sleep and got off track, now we have to Wake-Up and get back on track. But where we have been and where we are going are of little importance, for where we ARE right NOW is our only Reality and should be our only concern.
BE that Moment, from Moment to Moment. Very Esoteric, I would say, for it addresses the very core of what is sometimes termed *The Middle Path* or *The Middle Way* or even *Awakening*. Not to be confused with *indecision* or *sitting on the fence*. For The Middle Path is not in not making choices or not taking sides, but rather in Realizing that there is no choice to make and no side to take.
Subject: Still
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:05:59 -0800
"The Hammer doth Fall and you are the Nail. You are in a circular argument with yourself chasing your tale. The Ultimate Quest is to Seek out the Seeker, Polish the Stone, UnVeil the Grail, Master the Master, Slay the Slayer, Observe the Observer, Look at yourself. There are no Words the Deaf can Hear. There are no Sights the Blind can See. There is no Wisdom that the Ignorant can Fathom. You Play a Game of Hide and Seek Buying the Camping Gear of Method and Technique when it is closer to you than your Heart and as Simple as BEing Still." -- Sri Yogayuktaatmaa
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 05:33:47 GMT
Greetings,
The conditioned mind is always chasing it's tale.
Subject: RE: A Ray Of Light
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:29:45 -0600
Tom Ragland tragland@umcom.org Perhaps part of awakening is to allow it to happen. In observing the catcher of the tail, In understanding the tale that is then told, Realizing what was caught and who did the catching And that there is no distinction between the two The very thing that has kept us trapped Becomes the very tool for liberation.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 20:51:28 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->Perhaps part of awakening is to allow it to happen. ->In observing the catcher of the tail, ->In understanding the tale that is then told, ->Realizing what was caught and who did the catching ->And that there is no distinction between the two ->The very thing that has kept us trapped ->Becomes the very tool for liberation.
*Deep Bow* It seems that you are on to something here Dear Friend. Awakening is all about not paying any attention to it and letting it happen. What we have to pay great attention to is the conditioned nonsense (the tail and the tale), thus figuring out how to get out of the loop of the Vicious Circle. Indeed creators of our own reality, Legends in our own mind. Thus "as a man thinketh, so is he". The mind can be our greatest adversary processing all that drivel, or it can be our greatest Tool of Liberation/Awakening by rooting out the drivel thus BEing Still. The Grand Seeker ever on a Quest to find Awakening lets the mind process all the drivel it wants to, thus the Holy Grail is never found. If we would only leave Awakening alone and let it do whatever it is going to do and Focus on keeping the mind on the Straight and Narrow Path, we just might find that the Holy Grail is right under our nose. Right there in plain sight, that we have most likely been looking at all along and did not Realize/Recognize it.
So it is when we ARE the nose that we ARE also the Bird Of Paradise that keeps flying up there. That is why we are always told not to pick our nose, because the Bird Of Paradise might Bit. And if you are Bitten by the Bird Of Paradise, you will never pick your nose again (so is said). So just BE, and forget about the nose and the Bird Of Paradise and Awakening. Let the nose run and the Bird fly and Awakening BE.
Thanks for joining in Thomas.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:05:53 -0500
Nice to hear from you Tom :)
Would you like to share something about yourself and your walk?
Warmly, J
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