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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ February - Page 1 ~
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Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Sat, Feb 1, 2003 05:54:13 GMT
Greetings,
So indeed, NOW is the time to Unfold AS our Awakening and pass Insights on to future generations -- they will need all of the Help that they can get.
Subject: Unseat
From: Ma <MaheshPradeep@aishwarya.i-p.com>
Date: Sat, Feb 1, 2003 21:09:49 -0800
"Did you see the wind ? Did you hear the flower grow ? Did you feel the shadow ? Paddle to the other shore you are afloat because you are going nowhere. What did the Dead Sage say do you really know ? Can the Dead Sage Help you NOW ? Can he Explain what you did not Understand ? You better unseat your head ! Consider this See the wind Hear the flower grow Feel the shadow BE the other shore." -- Sri Yogayuktaatmaa
Subject: Awakening ?
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 02:31:22 GMT
Greetings Community,
Some try to explain, beyond the unfathomable rhetoric of Wise Words, that Awakening, that Present Moment Present, that BEing Present AS each anew Moment from Moment to Moment, is not about the hermitage or ashram but rather about our every day life and it's various activities and interactions. It is about BEing whatever it is that you are doing, and not projecting a lot of conditioned interpretations and judgements and choices into/onto Whatever-IS that instant Moment.
People are too Fearful that they will lose some identity or something, but all they really lose is the Suffering. They are too Fearful to even try it let alone BE it. So they never give themselves the chance to Directly Experience the Wonder and Awe of the Present. So they never give themselves the chance to accomplish twice as much because what is accomplished has less distractions thus less error to correct.
The human physical form is an awesome piece of equipment that can accomplish unthinkable feats but it's potential is never let loose to do so because the mind is too confused by random arising thoughts of this or that. When you wash dishes, wash dishes or when you vacuum the carpet, vacuum the carpet or when you fix a meal, fix a meal or when you eat, eat or when you do anything, do whatever it is to do without thinking of anything else. At the end of the day you think back and say "I could not have gotten all that done".
You must do everything with a certain intensity. Life and every aspect about it, either physical or aetheric, must be an obsession with Whatever-IS. Whether it be washing dishes or preparing a meal or cleaning the house or working on the car or fixing a broken ceiling light or selling real estate, do it as though it is the last thing you will ever do and as though you have never done anything else. And when it turns out good you wonder 'how did I do that ?'.
BE Open and Honest with yourself and Embrace everything AS it IS. But they are afraid to Let Go of those dearly beloved conditioned notions about this and that, so most of what they do is sloppy and needs corrections that take time. And they wonder why they never seem to get anything done, or done right.
Awakening IS THAT.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 05:46:45 GMT
Greetings,
When we find ourselves in the abbey of no thoughts arising and no ideas projecting and no conditioned thinking or behavior, we Dwell AS the Silence where All is Heard, we Dwell AS the Void where All is Seen, we Dwell AS a State of BEing. It is not a matter of replacing one for another, but rather discarding what was not there in the first place.
Subject: RE: A Ray Of Light
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:08:48 -0600
I spent the first half of my life trying to find Truths to add on. Baptist, Catholic, Hindu. It all got too heavy to carry around. I am spending the second half of my life Trying to find truths to let go of. Like the advice of St. John of the Cross, And the Buddha. So my walk becomes much faster. Anything that is not practical is dropped. Thus I am left as one of a kind, alone, But at the same time one with everything. I carry around my personality and my body Like overcoats in the winter storms. I know spring is coming and I can shed them. It is already spring in my heart And I have stopped clinging to myself.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:30:44 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->I spent the first half of my life trying to find ->Truths to add on. ->Baptist, Catholic, Hindu. ->It all got too heavy to carry around. ->I am spending the second half of my life ->Trying to find truths to let go of. ->Like the advice of St. John of the Cross, ->And the Buddha. ->So my walk becomes much faster. ->Anything that is not practical is dropped. ->Thus I am left as one of a kind, alone, ->But at the same time one with everything. ->I carry around my personality and my body ->Like overcoats in the winter storms. ->I know spring is coming and I can shed them. ->It is already spring in my heart ->And I have stopped clinging to myself.
The underlying premise of your statement that the Key is not what you gather but rather what you let go is a very Correct one. But there are two fallacies, hypocrisies, to your statement. 1) Who Judges/Chooses what to let go ? The Grand Trickster ? Before you first let go of the Grand Trickster, he will do the Judging/Choosing. 2) There are too many "I"s for the statement to be valid. As long as there is an *I*, all is Illusion and thus not True/Real thus an invalid Rationalization (mostly for ourself). For *I*, the personification of self-worth/self-importance/ego, can actually do nothing beyond the confines of our mind. *I* is merely a fabrication of the very things we must let go. We can fool some of the people all of the time, and we can fool all of the people some of the time, but when we fool ourself we are in big trouble.
Just something to consider, and to perhaps further contemplate, Dear Friend.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:01:34 EST
In a message dated 2/3/2003 3:40:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, ejLight@light-mission.org writes:
> 1) Who Judges/Chooses what > to let go ? The Grand Trickster ?
Hi. I'm new. I know what you mean...but I believe it's the divine within that casts those spiritual "conditionings" off. Like a clearer vision.
Subject: My ramblings
From: Dale Green <dale@relia.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 15:34:59 -0700
>1) Who Judges/Chooses what >to let go ? The Grand Trickster ? Before you first let go of the Grand >Trickster, he will do the Judging/Choosing.
Is the grand trickster the ego? I am not versed with the definition of who that represents?
It seems that even through the deciding of what we don't want from religions/beliefs/philosophies, we are depending on them for our definitions of how to live.
I agree with Tom that too much dogma/beliefs/laws can weaken your walk in life or hinder it.
It seems to me that the only thing worth trying to do or basically the only thing that is worth while is love and all the aspects that it entails. Sometimes it seems like the hardest thing to do at times is interact with others, while at the same time it is probably one of the most important things in this life.
The soul is eternal, I know this somehow, deep down. When we shed this mortal body, and all of the unimportant "things" that come with mortal life, it seems at least in my life, how I have loved will remain. Not how I have judged, or what I came to posses, or how well I competed or progressed at politics.
OK I'm rambling on. I'm not sure if their was a point to my posting. I guess I just want to geet into it.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 02:28:11 GMT
Greetings Sherise, you wrote: -> Hi. I'm new. I know what you mean...but I believe it's the divine ->within that casts those spiritual "conditionings" off. Like a clearer ->vision.
Welcome New Friend. Well..... No one Saves you but yourself No one can and no one may, Others can Point to the Path But you yourself must Walk the Way.
The conditionings of which was spoken are far afield of anything resembling Spiritual, but rather the influences that control and manipulate our very thinking and behavior. Humans tend to *think* that there is some Divine Providence in their thinking and behavior, when actually they are just another Spoke in the Wheel of the manifested realm. That is one of the first conditioned Baggage we have to drop if we ever expect to start Awakening, the self-importance/self-divinity Bag. Indeed the human form is a most Divine Involved Spoke in that Wheel without a clutter mind, yet a most hideous tormented creature as the mind gets cluttered with conditioned programs to process. As Tom said, it is not about what you gather but rather what you let go. The down side is that YOU are the only one who can let it go. A clue might be that people for aeons have been waiting for someone else to Save them but they are still in the same pile of crap they were in aeons ago. So it would seem that perhaps a new game plan needs to be considered. No ? As the old cliche goes: 'if you want it done Right you have to do it yourself' {8->
Subject: Re: My ramblings
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 03:09:46 GMT
Greetings Dale, you wrote: ->Is the grand trickster the ego? I am not versed with the definition of ->who that represents?
Welcome to yet another New Friend. The Grand Trickster is the sum-total of all the toxic type conditionings that control and manipulate our thinking and behavior. Which, of course, *includes* the ego.
->It seems that even through the deciding of what we don't want from ->religions/beliefs/philosophies, we are depending on them for our ->definitions of how to live.
We are conditioned to *think* we depend on them when in actuality they depend on us processing them. If by "definitions" you mean Judgements and Choices then you are correct. But those conditioned Judgements and Choices keep us living in Hell, such as war and conflict and hatred and greed and corruption and the like. Defilements that we have endured so long that we accept them as some form of reality, as distorted as it may be. That is why we start Seeking, Seeking a better Way.
->I agree with Tom that too much dogma/beliefs/laws can weaken your walk ->in life or hinder it.
*Deep Bow* It is agreed with here also.
->It seems to me that the only thing worth trying to do or basically the ->only thing that is worth while is love and all the aspects that it ->entails. Sometimes it seems like the hardest thing to do at times is ->interact with others, while at the same time it is probably one of the ->most important things in this life.
Other than the elusive catch-all understanding of "love" (which is mostly a conditioned understanding thus incorrect), your statement here is most certainly agreed with.
->The soul is eternal, I know this somehow, deep down. When we shed this ->mortal body, and all of the unimportant "things" that come with mortal ->life, it seems at least in my life, how I have loved will remain. Not ->how I have judged, or what I came to posses, or how well I competed or ->progressed at politics.
Another catch-all word, "soul", that when Correctly Understood Points to that which is Eternal and Infinite and ever Present and is ever anew thus more a potentiality than any localized static aspect or *thing*. Catch-all words convey little, as it is after all the Talk is done and the Walk begins that the outcome of our BEing Shows. But what we have done has little bearing on what we do any more than it has any bearing on what we will do. What is done right NOW is the only Reality there IS, so in some retrospect in the future what we have done NOW is no longer Real but rather just a distorted memory, distorted by time and space. Distorted by our conditioned programmed ideas and images and notions of all sorts. Only when we are Open and Honest with ourself can we look deep into our very BEing and wrench out the defilements therein.
->OK I'm rambling on. I'm not sure if their was a point to my posting. I ->guess I just want to geet into it.
Thank you for that Dear New Friend. Hope to see you posting more often. And hopefully you will not take the offerings from here destructively, as the intention is merely for consideration.
Subject: Re: My ramblings
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:48:43 EST
In a message dated 2/3/2003 8:44:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, dale@relia.net writes:
> it seems at least in my life, how I have loved will remain.
You said you were not sure if there was a point ot your posting. I think your point was monumental, and well taken.
Subject: Re: My ramblings
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 03:46:59 GMT
Greetings Sherise,
If you will recall the "Zen and Netiquette" article, it was requested that postings in html format to a world-public group tends to be messy for most e-mail programs used worldwide. If the whole world had html compliant e-mail programs it would be pleasant, but since few do it just makes it cumbersome for many (if not most) to wade through the html code (or the unaccessible heavy weight attached file that comes along with the post in leu of the code being displayed in the body of the message). So please respect those who do not have the ability to read a post in html code by sending *text only* (a setting that all email programs have). Thanks for your participation though.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 06:18:21 GMT
Greetings,
Ah yes, I generally refer to The Grand Trickster. Reactions and mental games that we are conditioned to play with ourselves to give us some auspices over some situation that we find ourselves in. Projecting our own conditioned judgements into/onto some experience, we miss the Moment OF the experience.
Subject: the boulder in the pool
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 06:58:19 -0600
The Buddha taught--Suppose a person would hurl a huge boulder into a deep pool of water. Then a crowd would assemble around it and have prayers and praises and rituals with salutations, chanting "Come up out of the water great boulder. Ascend to higher ground great boulder". What do you think, because of the prayers of this great crowd of people, with their praises and rituals with salutations, would that boulder ascend to higher ground? [Gamanisamyutta 6]
To much of religion is about faith in some imagined external force to make it right. This huge crowd could easily walk into the pool and pick up the boulder and actually effectively move it out of the way. After right vision and right intention come some very down to earth universal dharma hits the dirt putting it into practice steps. In what you say to people, in how you treat people, in how you make and spend your money, in what you represent, in what you oppose--you become this eternal light source, this oneness of interbeing with all who have become this same eternal light source. But like Jesus said, you don't light a candle and then put it under the table. You have to carry around the light for all to see. You have to stop praying and start taking on the responsibility of moving the boulder out of your pool--of putting the grand trickster in his place. All the blind faith in the world won't budge the boulder an inch. If not you, who? If not now, when?
Subject: Re: My ramblings
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 04:26:52 -0500
> it seems at least in my life, how I have loved will remain.
My life? life can be owned? The folly of the grand trickster. Thought I'd say it before you EJ. hahaha.
Is repenting necessary to arrive in the New Jerusalem?
Subject: Re: the boulder in the pool
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 14:32:57 GMT
*Deep Bow* Tom.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 15:03:07 GMT
->i am having some difficulty with EJ's response to Tom's musing....... ->no matter how one looks at, it there is still the *I* aspect of all of us ->the *I* aspect that gets up to go to work everyday, tends to the children, the chores ->its the *I* aspect that is here on this planet, in this physical body trying to make sense of it all ->the same *I* aspect that is participating in this group, reading and responding -in search of wholeness ->without this *I* aspect who/what would make the realization that we are all connected ? ->the *I* is just an aspect of who/what we Are, the aspect that makes it possible to the things that needs to get done here on this plane, be it the laundry or protesting pollution, or sharing thoughts on awakening. ->one would have to live a solitary life upon a mountain top meditating on life to be completely severed from the *I*
First, it was asked not to send html postings. So please offer a little courtesy to those who can not read html e-mails, not to mention the waste of bandwidth and hard drive space.
As to your posting, did you observe your *reaction* ? A most valuable Tool is Self-Observation. It reveals defilements we ever so dearly cling to, that mostly keep us in a state of conflict. Awakening is about nothing left to react to. Reactions are good in that respect, so we can Cleanse ourself of those conditionings that induce us to react, but destructive by nature. Let me repeat a previous posting: "Some try to explain, beyond the unfathomable rhetoric of Wise Words, that Awakening, that Present Moment Present, that BEing Present AS each anew Moment from Moment to Moment, is not about the hermitage or ashram but rather about our every day life and it's various activities and interactions. It is about BEing whatever it is that you are doing, and not projecting a lot of conditioned interpretations and judgements and choices into/onto Whatever-IS that instant Moment. "People are too Fearful that they will lose some identity or something, but all they really lose is the Suffering. They are too Fearful to even try it let alone BE it. So they never give themselves the chance to Directly Experience the Wonder and Awe of the Present. So they never give themselves the chance to accomplish twice as much because what is accomplished has less distractions thus less error to correct. "The human physical form is an awesome piece of equipment that can accomplish unthinkable feats but it's potential is never let loose to do so because the mind is too confused by random arising thoughts of this or that. When you wash dishes, wash dishes or when you vacuum the carpet, vacuum the carpet or when you fix a meal, fix a meal or when you eat, eat or when you do anything, do whatever it is to do without thinking of anything else. At the end of the day you think back and say "I could not have gotten all that done". "You must do everything with a certain intensity. Life and every aspect about it, either physical or aetheric, must be an obsession with Whatever-IS. Whether it be washing dishes or preparing a meal or cleaning the house or working on the car or fixing a broken ceiling light or selling real estate, do it as though it is the last thing you will ever do and as though you have never done anything else. And when it turns out good you wonder 'how did I do that ?'. "BE Open and Honest with yourself and Embrace everything AS it IS. But they are afraid to Let Go of those dearly beloved conditioned notions about this and that, so most of what they do is sloppy and needs corrections that take time. And they wonder why they never seem to get anything done, or done right."
Read the archives of the Community.
Subject: Re: Netiquette
From: Dale Green <dale@relia.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 07:31:24 -0700
>If you will recall the "Zen and Netiquette" article, it was requested > that postings in html format to a world-public group tends to be messy for > most e-mail programs used worldwide.
I apologize, for the use of HTML. I wasn't thinking, your point is understood. I guess it comes naturally to someone like myself that programs websites all day. Thanks for the reminder.
Subject: Ownership of "life"
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:22:53 EST
In a message dated 2/4/2003 9:28:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, SwedishGod80@aol.com writes:
> it seems at least in my life, how I have loved will remain.
My life? life can be owned? The folly of the grand trickster. Thought I'd say it before you EJ. hahaha.
I joined this list because this is new to me. I am a Christian, but I have found the interpretation of my Church...lacking. A softspoken brilliant gentleman turned me onto this...invited me to Awaken. So I joined several lists to listen, and learn from the experience of others.
This moment, I am uncomfortable. Deeply (and unfortunately) I DO believe that my soul/spirit is of my "ownership"...per se. It was created. Not by "me". Without it...my animal body would simply be a pile of nitrogen, and trace chemicals suitable only for burial or cremation.
I have led a very carnal life. Likely many lives. It is MY responsibility to keep my spirit/soul awake. I've been asleep. It was my choice. It was my choice to focus on sexuality in my sleeping.
MY soul spirit is ME. The body that I toned and primped to aid in seduction is not ME...my car, my job, my art is not me.
My children are not "mine" but spirit/ souls coming to the fire...through my body.
My spirit/soul IS my guardianship. That is truly what is ingrained in my silence. Otherwise I can continue to live as this animal form, recognize any awakening endeavor, as the "opiate of the masses" and die of AIDS or drunkenness.
EJ you wrote to me. "Humans tend to *think* that there is some Divine Providence in their thinking and behavior, when actually they are just another Spoke in the Wheel of the manifested realm."
I must have placed my words improperly. With respect, I do not feel there is a divine providence in my thinking or behavior. If you knew me, you might be compelled towards laughter at the mere thought.
I feel there is a Divinity that has nothing to do with "me"....again...perhaps I am ignorant for my use of catch phrasing. But it is my soul/spirit.
Truly, for me...Awakening sucked. Every person demon of "mine" got right up in my face so to speak. It was my carnal desire, more than once to fall back to sleep. But that's a deceit. Ignorance isn't bliss. An amazing teacher just pointed out the road, and if I return to sleep, I will do so in the knowledge that the "path" is still there. I do not believe this is a contest of words, or clever verbal ability.
"I" am not true. "I" am unknowing. "I" am asleep. My spirit/soul...is not.
Sherise (sorry about the html before...)
Subject: Re: Ownership of "life"
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:01:01 GMT
Greetings Sherise, you wrote: -> I joined this list because this is new to me. I am a Christian,
Not to worry Dear Friend, we will not hold that against you {8-> Actually, you will find that this little Oasis Community is more Christian than *the church* believes. Why ? Because here we talk about the very precepts that constitute Christ -- Christ Consciousness which is Enlightenment which is Awakening. Of course, the church and organization that professes following the precepts of Christ are what Jesus himself called "false prophets" so the organization and it's dogmatic control and manipulation is tossed asunder as just another Fear based Trick of the Grand Trickster. The very icon of organized Christianity (Jesus) would condemn them "for they know not what they do", for they follow a distorted self-imposed conditioned rendition of what Jesus actually Taught.
->but I ->have found the interpretation of my Church...lacking.
*Deep Bow* A preliminary Realization.
-> A softspoken brilliant ->gentleman turned me onto this...invited me to Awaken. So I joined several ->lists to listen, and learn from the experience of others.
Then indeed Listen, not just hear. There is a vast difference. Tread Softly, also, as there are many self-proclaimed charlatans to trade places with the church. BE Mindful and Open to *consider* what might be offered. Believe nothing, as Truth needs no one to believe it to be so. Do not even believe Truth, but rather BE it, because you can not even Understand it until you are not separate from it.
-> This moment, I am uncomfortable.
Good. Observe that discomfort. Why the discomfort ? For what purpose are you uncomfortable ? Where does that discomfort lead you ? What makes you react in the way of discomfort ? What conditioned ideas and images and notions rebel causing this discomfort ? Self-Observation is a most vital Key to Awakening. To "know thyself", as Jesus would say.
->Deeply (and unfortunately) I DO believe ->that my soul/spirit is of my "ownership"...per se.
To use your terminology, "soul/spirit" simply IS Dear Friend, thus can not be *owned*. For if one could own it then another may not be able to own it, which is the foundation of conflict and war and greed and corruption. Besides, what use could there be in owning it ? It IS as you ARE so what matter is it that it could be owned. When you think about it, it is going to BE whether owned or not so why worry ourselves about owning it. You see, whether we own it or not it is still as much a part of us as our breath. If we have it anyway (conceptually speaking), who cares if it is owned or not ? Because guess what ? When you give up it's ownership it sticks around like a bad penny. You could not get rid of it even if you wanted to. It IS YOU. Burn the deed Dear Friend, because it is going to be all your's whether you like it or not. Odd thing about ownership, the more you give up the more you have. The less you own the more abundant is your Life. Try it, you might like it {8->
-> It was created.
Actually it IS creation, and not really that it was *created*.
->Not by ->"me".
True, but you created the ownership of it.
-> Without it...my animal body would simply be a pile of nitrogen, and ->trace chemicals suitable only for burial or cremation.
As said above, it IS you already so why clutter your head with it's ownership.
-> I have led a very carnal life. Likely many lives. It is MY responsibility ->to keep my spirit/soul awake. I've been asleep.
*Deep Bow*
->It was my choice. It was my ->choice to focus on sexuality in my sleeping.
Actually you were conditioned to think this, as you were conditioned to focus on a worldly life. You really had no choice in the matter because the seeming choice you made was as programmed. Another study that you might want to pursue is *conditioning*, especially the subliminal variety. Very interesting to find out how you are controlled and manipulated by what you are conditioned to think.
-> MY soul spirit is ME. The body that I toned and primped to aid in ->seduction is not ME...my car, my job, my art is not me.
*Deep Bow*
-> My children are not "mine" but spirit/ souls coming to the fire...through ->my body.
Dualistic thinking, that is the first stumbling block to Awakening. YOU are IT, thus nothing "through" any more than anything owned. Awakening is about ending the separation of this and that. When you ARE Life/soul/spirit thus no separation thus nothing to own for there is no one to own it, THEN you ARE What-IS and What-IS is YOU. You could own yourself ? Interesting *concept*. You do already, without owning you. BE you. Just do not let the Grand Trickster own you.
-> My spirit/soul IS my guardianship. That is truly what is ingrained in my ->silence.
Sadly, ingrained by the Grand Trickster. There is no "my", there is only YOU and you are IT. You slight yourself by even thinking that you have to own something you already ARE. That Grand Trickster is quite the convincer.
->Otherwise I can continue to live as this animal form, recognize any awakening ->endeavor, as the "opiate of the masses" and die of AIDS or drunkenness.
A plight unworthy of even the automatons we have become. But alas, if we do not Wake-Up then Suffering is our due.
-> EJ you wrote to me. "Humans tend to *think* that there is some ->Divine Providence in their thinking and behavior, when actually they are ->just another Spoke in the Wheel of the manifested realm." -> -> I must have placed my words improperly. With respect, I do not feel ->there is a divine providence in my thinking or behavior. If you knew me, you ->might be compelled towards laughter at the mere thought.
It was the space between the words that reveal what was offered. Words are but place holders and have little relevance to what is *Spoken*. The actual meaning behind the words is most obvious regardless of the meanings of the words. We fool ourselves with the words so we will not have to face the Fear behind them.
-> I feel there is a Divinity that has nothing to do with ->"me"....again...perhaps I am ignorant for my use of catch phrasing. But it is ->my soul/spirit.
Look beyond and between the catch words Dear Friend, there is where you will find the intent whether consciously known or subconsciously known or not even know at all. We too easily deceive ourself, we too easily Forget. As it is so difficult to Remember.
-> Truly, for me...Awakening sucked. Every person demon of "mine" got ->right up in my face so to speak. It was my carnal desire, more than once to ->fall back to sleep. But that's a deceit. Ignorance isn't bliss. An amazing ->teacher just pointed out the road, and if I return to sleep, I will do so in ->the knowledge that the "path" is still there.
*Deep Bow* Once the Door is Opened we can not get it closed completely ever again, so it haunts us until we Let Go and fling the Door Open Wide. Welcome Home.
-> I do not believe this is a contest of words, or clever verbal ability.
Good, because such is not the intention from here Dear Friend.
-> "I" am not true. "I" am unknowing. "I" am asleep. My spirit/soul...is not.
That is a start {8-> Forget what you think you know and consider...........
Stay Tuned to yourSelf AS your True Nature So that it will be the Empty mind's only Feature, Without this Single Focus the Work is for naught Just as it is not learned it can not be taught.
Awakening doesn't take a break to work and play The anew Present Moment is a continuous Way, Once Truly Awakening you don't lose the knack So there is never any going and coming back.
You Forget your True Nature so you slip away >From the Present Moment where you must Stay, Self-Remembering True Nature is the Foundation Which all aspects of Life are Lived for it's Duration.
Just Serving the Master our Awakening a Servant Doing what must be Done because it's Deservant, When we ARE our True Nature there is no you There is just Awakening Free to BE the Work to Do.
Subject: Re: My ramblings
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 05:42:33 GMT
->Is repenting necessary to arrive in the New Jerusalem?
No, you just have to stop reaching over and hitting the Snooze button. The Alarm has been going off for a long time but it is too Painful to listen to so most just reach over and tap the Snooze button. The procedure for this not so graceful reach is explained in detail in the Grand Trickster's *Modus Operandi Manual* under the heading of "Sleeeeeeeeeeep". It seems that most have perfected such a reach to the point that it is second nature for them.
So out comes the 2x4..... WHACK !
But consider.....
~ Dance Today ~
Unencumbered by conditionings unencumbered by thoughts >From that unconscious or subconscious self-arising wrought, Unobstructed Observation thus too unobstructed Witnessing Unobstructed by ideas and images and notions a confessing.
Unobstructed by projected notions AS it IS an Apperception Unattached unlocalized undirected as Pure Clear Perception, An Empty mind is a Perceiver/Observer/Witnesser of Reality For there are no thoughts or words processed of a Surreality.
Since nothing is either this or that neither this way or that way Neither good or bad neither right or wrong as the words say, All can only be Embraced AS it IS Judgement is a projection Of conditionings is invalid because of Awakening's reflection.
When there is no one there is no judgement but rather simple Observation that is an uncommitted and uninfluenced Temple, It's not a matter of seeing what to use but seeing what is used Let Truth/Reality reveal itself rather than trying to be amused.
The Truth/Reality of the Whole IS the Truth/Reality of a Part As the Truth/Reality of the Part IS the Truth/Reality of Heart, Make no mistake just Observe/Witness/BE not the outsider Separate from the Observation so just BE it ever much wider.
Direct Experience Direct Connection a Direct Communication Direct BEing THIS is Clarity for nothing is left to chance ration, BE Truth BE Reality BE What-IS THIS is Vision as nothing left THAT is beyond mind thus can't be fathomed by a mind cleft.
All is One yet many All is Unity yet multiple All IS though ISNOT No-Thing yet many things Empty yet full Void yet inclusive got, Silent yet Sound Still yet motion a Pathless Path Wayless Way A Wonderland of form yet Formless a Danceless Dance today.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 06:03:19 GMT
Greetings,
Separation is an Illusion indeed. But Soul and Christ and God and Buddha and Muhammad and whomever are but Pointers or Mantras for Dwelling AS the Silence or the Void or Awakening, and will never be Found Within. When we Dwell Within, we Realize ourSelf. And AS ourSelf we Realize these other Pointers, for they can be none other than ourSelf. And to Realize oneSelf we must discard the conditioned notions ABOUT these Pointers.
Remember, the only dumb question is the one that is not asked.
Subject: RE: Ownership of "life"
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:44:34 -0600
The word translated as "life" in the New Testament Is actually the Greek word "psyche", which means soul. Now the word soul is important to traditional Christianity. You have to save your soul--they say. Main objective. Which probably explains why the following passages were Mistranslated--Matthew 10:39, Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24, John 12:25. For when we translate it properly, Jesus is giving us some Very amazing and seemingly anti-Christian advice:
If you are trying to preserve your soul, you will only lose it. If you can let go of your soul, you will eternally discover Who you really are.
Subject: conditioning - tracing notions - vulnerability
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 05:01:00 -0500
EJ: Another study that you might want to pursue is *conditioning*,
What sources? Can you guide me/us to any particular book/scool of thought/psychology? I doubt you mean just looking up the word conditioning in the dictionary...
EJ:
This moment, I am uncomfortable.
Good. Observe that discomfort. Why the discomfort ? For what purpose are you uncomfortable ? Where does that discomfort lead you ? What makes you react in the way of discomfort ? What conditioned ideas and images and notions rebel causing this discomfort ? Self-Observation is a most vital Key to Awakening. To "know thyself", as Jesus would say.
I am horrible at this sort of thing. That is how blind I am. I do not see what specific conditioned notions lie behind this sort of pathetic behavior. Could you please point some notions out for me, so that I at least can have a chance to rid them? It is hard to get rid of something of you can't really put a finger on it.
Thank you. Johannes
Subject: Re: conditioning - tracing notions - vulnerability
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 11:16:08 -0500
Wasn't skinner the guy who introduced the reward and punishment system to America's schools?
Am I understanding it right then that SPECIFIC conditioned notions cannot be spoken of? There is such a referal to conditioned notions, but does everyone understand them and know what they are? It isn't very clear to me. Images and opinions and beliefs... but when a defense mechanism takes place in me because I think there is a possibility I might get hurt, what exactly is the notion? That there is an *I* to get hurt? Do all conditioned notions boil down to one major illusion/notion? Earlier it was stated that the the only stupid questions were the ones not asked, so I will reveal my confusion. Is everyone absolutely certain what a conditioned notion is? Would you reckognize one if you saw one? I think it is important we all get this if we are to join you in Nirvana EJ. Specifics would be appreciated from here, since there is also a vision handicap and not only a listening handicap.
Subject: preserve soul/Tom
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 08:27:26 -0500
Thanks Tom.
> If you are trying to preserve your soul, you will only lose > it. > If you can let go of your soul, you will eternally discover > Who you really are.
I see this as a huge point. It has been said that "self-improvement is the road to Hell". What has led you to realize this? WHat has been most challenging in living this truth? What did the patterns look like that made you try to preserve your soul?
relating, J
Subject: RE: conditioning - tracing notions - vulnerability
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:19:33 -0600
When I was a child, growing up in Southern USA, I observed bigotry. White people would look down at black people as inferior, Enforce segregation, discrimination, injustice. I knew it was wrong, but I could see that it was so ingrained In people that they could not see past it.
Extreme example, but one that I can be absolutely certain that It is a case of a conditioned notion possessing and controlling The responses of people who never stopped to ask why.
Subject: Re: conditioning - tracing notions - vulnerability
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 15:04:35 GMT
Greetings Johannes, you wrote: ->EJ: Another study that ->you might want to pursue is *conditioning*, -> ->What sources? Can you guide me/us to any particular book/scool of thought/psychology? ->I doubt you mean just looking up the word conditioning in the dictionary...
The area of the Behavioral Sciences will reveal much. The field of conditioning is not new, Pavlov's techniques were used to train monkeys in the early space program before space exploration was human manned. B.F. Skinner is a good reference since he is known as the father of modern day Behaviorism. Under the general heading of "Conditioning" in the area of psychology is where to find much information. The one to pay most attention to is "Subliminal Conditioning".
->EJ: Good. Observe that discomfort. Why the discomfort ? For what ->purpose are you uncomfortable ? Where does that discomfort lead you ? ->What makes you react in the way of discomfort ? What conditioned ideas ->and images and notions rebel causing this discomfort ? Self-Observation ->is a most vital Key to Awakening. To "know thyself", as Jesus would say. -> ->I am horrible at this sort of thing. That is how blind I am. I do not see what specific conditioned notions lie behind this sort of pathetic behavior. Could you please point some notions out for me, so that I at least can have a chance to rid them? It is hard to get rid of something of you can't really put a finger on it.
Be Mindful, as shortcoming are regularly Pointed to. At time they are even Point to as "stumbling block #1, #2, and so one throughout a post. Which, in itself causes discomfort {8-> But the discomfort is good because it gives us a chance to Observe that discomfort. Why the discomfort ? For what purpose are you uncomfortable ? Where does that discomfort lead you ? What makes you react in the way of discomfort ? What conditioned ideas and images and notions rebel causing this discomfort? Self-Observation is a most vital Key to Awakening. To "know thyself", as Jesus would say. Self-Observation is a most vital Key to Awakening. Self-Observation is a most vital Key to Awakening.
Self-Observation is a most vital Key to Awakening. Self-Observation is a most vital Key to Awakening. Twice as important for the Listening impaired {8->
Subject: RE: preserve soul/Tom
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:59:11 -0600
Consider everything you think stands for "you" one at a time. Make a list. You have learned English. You drive a car. You are called by a name. You have a family. You can trace The ancestors of your body. You have learned to react in specific ways Without thinking, you go through your day on autopilot. The culture you have lived in has influenced you into being like them. You know which side of the road to drive on. You know how to use an ATM. You have formed a paradigm about how you fit in with everything. You have divided the world into matching sets of opposites. Good and evil. Heaven and hell. White and black. Us and them. Nearly every aspect that you call "you" has been superimposed on you, Brainwashed you, labeled you. You have been told what to want, What to value, what to treasure, what to cling to, what to trust in. You have been told not to question authority and tradition on the Threat of sending this "you" to some eternal torment. Controlled by fear.
The Buddha went through a series of propositions to discover the self. Everything he thought of could be considered to be the products of Conditioning, added baggage, not the self. Like foam forming on the Ocean surface, not really having any lasting substance or meaning. Once you stop identifying "you" with everything you think stands for "you" and strip off all of that, things become lighter and clearer. If someone disagrees with "you", you no longer feel the need to react. Someone's "you" disagrees with your "you", but both are but ocean foam. You can see that other people are trapped and tricked just like you are. This brings empathy and forgiveness and charity. Without being "you" you tend to start being "Christ".
Subject: Re: conditioning - tracing notions - vulnerability
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:27:20 GMT
->Wasn't skinner the guy who introduced the reward and punishment system to ->America's schools?
Do not know.
->Am I understanding it right then that SPECIFIC conditioned notions cannot ->be spoken of?
No, it is just that they are more readily recognized when you see them IF you look for them. IF you consider what is Pointed to.
->There is such a referal to conditioned notions, but does ->everyone understand them and know what they are?
Though most do know about conditioning, of animals mostly, they refuse to consider that the same techniques are used for humans too. They do not want to consider it because then they would see what programmed controlled manipulated robots they have become. Then they could not be masters of the universe, they could no longer wear the big S on the t-shirt, they would be far less than ten feet tall.
->It isn't very clear to ->me. Images and opinions and beliefs...
Rule of Thumb might be 'if it influences your thinking and behavior it is most likely conditioned'.
->but when a defense mechanism ->takes place in me because I think there is a possibility I might get hurt, ->what exactly is the notion?
That does not have to be a notion, it could be actual. If actual there is no thinking at all, but rather an autonomic reflex of preservation. If you have to think about it then the reaction is more based on conditioned Fear.
->That there is an *I* to get hurt?
The *I* is a conditioned Illusion so it can not get hurt. Does the shadow get hurt when you box with it ?
-.Do all ->conditioned notions boil down to one major illusion/notion?
No, there are many. And they all are major Illusions.
->Earlier it was stated that the the only stupid questions were the ones not ->asked, so I will reveal my confusion.
*Deep Bow*
-> Is everyone absolutely certain what ->a conditioned notion is?
Though most do know about conditioning, of animals, they refuse to consider that the same techniques are used for humans too. They do not want to consider it because then they would see what programmed controlled manipulated robots they have become. Then they could not be masters of the universe, they could no longer wear the big S on the t-shirt, they would be far less than ten feet tall. Rule of Thumb might be 'if it influences your thinking and behavior it is most likely conditioned'.
->Would you reckognize one if you saw one?
IF you knew what to look for, but most can not because they do not want to. That is the benefit of having them Pointed out by those who had to Suffering with them the same way you do.
-> I think it is important we all get this if we are to join you in Nirvana EJ.
*Deep Bow*
-> Specifics would be appreciated from here, since there is also a vision ->handicap and not only a listening handicap.
Yes, Vision disabilities are taken into consideration also. The first thing the Vision Impaired should do is turn off the Intellect, then they could See even if it is Blurred. That is, Forget what you think you know and Open up to possible considerations. The mind makes a better Door than a Window when cluttered with a lot of conditioned nonsense. Empty the mind and it becomes a very large picture Window. Try it, it may improve your Sight {8->
"So........ Walk for a while, and you will See Wonders unbeknownst before - you will See the Wonder of YOU. There is but One Miracle in all of manifested form, and that Miracle is YOU. The Mirror of Truth is held up for you to Truly See that Miracle. Of course looking into the Mirror of Truth is not without Pain, for it reflects our flaws and Causes of our Suffering. Oh yes, we can turn away from the Mirror of Truth and thus avoid the Pain but we would miss the Dance - the Cosmic Dance of Awakening to the Miracle that we ARE. Come........... Dance." -- Yogajyotii
Subject: bare with me
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 07:56:16 -0500
Thanks for your input Tom. It is too vague for me however.
> White people would look down at black people as inferior, > Enforce segregation, discrimination, injustice. > I knew it was wrong,
who decides that it is wrong?Wrong as opposed to what?
but I could see that it was so ingrained > In people that they could not see past it. > Extreme example, but one that I can be absolutely certain that > It is a case of a conditioned notion possessing and > controlling > The responses of people
The belief that difference in skin color is dangerous? This is too vague, i really want to get this. What specific notions underlied the racism? Fear of unfamiliarity? How were these notions implanted? They must have come from somewhere.
who never stopped to ask why.
If you would get one of these people to be really honest, he would say that the niggers just scare me. Make me uncomfortable. They're different. Not like us. So what I am asking is what specific conditioned notions underlie such fears and beliefs? Do you see where I am coming from?
Thanks for your patience, I know I'm slow.
Subject: Re: conditioning - tracing notions - vulnerability
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:08:33 EST
In a message dated 2/5/2003 10:14:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, ejLight@light-mission.org writes:
Why the discomfort ? For what purpose are you uncomfortable ? Where does that discomfort lead you ? What makes you react in the way of discomfort ? What conditioned ideas and images and notions rebel causing this discomfort?
Hi EJ...the discomfort comes from...the sneaking inkling that my external world...is nothing. Many years of investing myself...in this word...is a sham.
I have been led...just like a happy foolish sheep, by my "church"...by my "government" which is now declaring war, and my "society" telling me to color my hair because it is coming in white...and watch reality TV...that will calm me back to sleep.
It feels as though I've been looking at reality with a Kaleidoscope that someone handed me, and demanded I use. I put it down, and saw with my eyes.
Wasn't a pretty sight...all of it, particularly given the fact...THAT is where I've been for forty years.
That is where the discomfort stems from me. Society tells me I'm beautiful on the outside. It strokes that vanity....coddling me to sleep.
When I abandon that Kaleidoscopic vision....I am ugly inside.
That horrifies me.
Subject: RE: bare with me
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:24:26 -0600
You have touched on a great truth in that our reasons that point us Toward enlightenment are subjective. What inspires me may repel you. What I know from my experience you have not encountered. Like people standing in a group laughing about a movie, Those who saw the movie get it, those who didn't see the movie are a bit lost. My example works for me. Now you have to find your own examples That are valid for your current position and direction and purpose. What reactions do you cling to, what conclusions, what limitations? Do you have any feelings toward Hussain? Toward Bush? What are you afraid of? What do you work for? What do you spend money on? What do you value?
Jesus said if you can find out what you treasure you will discover your heart. But know why you think you just have to have that new car. Do you really need another vehicle or have you just fallen prey to the ads? Again, just examples.
Funny thing about enlightenment. No one can truly explain it to anyone else. No one out there can save you, not Christ, not Buddha. They are a couple of Very good finger pointers, but you have to follow the instructions and do it for yourself. Like Jesus said--why bother calling me Lord, Lord, if you don't follow my instructions? It would be like building a house on sand. You have to dig your own foundation and build your own house. What worked for me or anyone else may not be valid for your path. Don't expect absolute answers--I was stuck in that trap for decades if not lifetimes.
Subject: Hi ya all
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 07:50:33 -0800
Just thought I would drop a note and say thanks for the great posts of late. Although I have been rather quiet and busy, I do get a moment to read and dwell in the wise words uttered on the list.
It's been a winter and a half. Not weather wise, thats been great for people, just not the earth and nature. No snow, no cold weather. El Nino will produce many long term effects on this area as well as the economy of the area.
To bring you up to date, those who are interested that is. I did receive notice that my complaint to the Human Rights Commission, will be going to Tribunal sometime after the 21st of Feb. I will be notified of their decision by mail. So what seemed a long time in happening, appears that nothing lies dormant or forgotten. A year will be in the first week of June. So time will tell.
As life in BC seemingly falls farther into pieces, the threatening signs of war are upon us. Isn't it the truth that along with recession and depression a war must be invented to turn the economy around?
The world and all its sheeple are in trouble, are in pain, and continue to suffer. The jokes fly around about our famous leader getting a DUI in Hawaii. Recalls are beginning to happen, but not sure that it already to late to do anything in the line of prevention.
Doesn't make sense to go to war in the name of God, when the truth is that it is in the name of oil. You get letters via email stating that we should pray for the seven that died in the shuttle when there are no letters asking for prayer for those that died in the train accident in Australia, for those that die through starvation daily, and those who get caught in earth quakes and flooding . Sometimes it just seems that American TV and news are the most important things in the world. That their people are worthy of prayer and not the rest of the world.
There is talk of losing more and more privacy through the fears of the men in power. The world is totally conditioned and encouraged to live in fear. As long as people are afraid, they can continually use force in the name of defending the people. False security. As the Kali Yuga gains strength, the people of the world lose their rights as human beings and can actually justify it. More and more crawl into a hole giving others power to run their lives, to take away what little rights you do have, and call it beneficial to their survival.
Oh man, tis but a sad state of affairs.
And thats my vent for the day. lol Back to the topic at hand, after this interruption. Worse than a commercial. ha ha
Love to all Shar
Subject: feeling stupid in math class
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 06:42:07 -0500
Dear EJ,
> ->It isn't very clear to > ->me. Images and opinions and beliefs... > > Rule of Thumb might be 'if it influences your thinking and behavior it > is most likely conditioned'.
how would you know if it influences your thinking and behavior? If it is designed to cause pain and keep you in suffering? The mental movies that are played in my head quite often is that of a "war" nature. There is always arguing. I am always trying to proove something, or "get" someone. Quite a hostile atmosphere. I reckon this thinking (although i wouldn't call it actual thinking) influences my behavior, right? It seems that i do actually feed this activity, keep it going... exactly how I don't know. Perhaps inattentiveness. My space is quite polluted. For the last 24 hours I've been with this. Tom's post about making the list of the things you think about yourself was helpful. Yet the bickering in my head takes over... sadly more often than I would like to admit. What conditioned notions are harbored that cause this arguing, war scene inside? I seriously go blank when I attempt to trace what beliefs and notions cause this thing in me. In math class I always felt stupid for having to interrupt the teacher and say that i still didn't understand... and ask him to please try to explain further. I feel a bit the same way now. > ->but when a defense mechanism > ->takes place in me because I think there is a possibility I might get hurt, > ->what exactly is the notion? > > That does not have to be a notion, it could be actual.
Could a verbal attack - words uttered with the intent to hurt - be an ACTUAL threat/attack/cause for deffens? I reckon that without a listening deficiency, one then would hear another person in pain, and see that the other person is doing what he knows in order to preserve his well-being, and compassion would be the natural respons. Yes?
If actual > there is no thinking at all, but rather an autonomic reflex of > preservation. If you have to think about it then the reaction is more > based on conditioned Fear.
It sounds like the actual is limited to physical survival instincts...? > ->That there is an *I* to get hurt? > > The *I* is a conditioned Illusion so it can not get hurt. Does the > shadow get hurt when you box with it ?
Gotcha. What I meant was... is the notion/belief that there is an *I* to defend/protect in itself a major conditioned notion that underlies all conditioned defense mechanisms? > -.Do all > ->conditioned notions boil down to one major illusion/notion? > > No, there are many. And they all are major Illusions.
Is I am not worthy of love a conditioned notion? Are there many notions in that belief?
The basic desire of my personality seems to be competent and secure. What notions underlie? The basic fear of my personality seems to be being ridiculed, being overwhelmed. What notions underlie?
My superego message is: you are good or ok as long as you have mastered something. What notions underlie?
These three things rule my life. The carrot dangeling in front and the whip breathing down my neck. ...and of course the voice that tells me how to get the carrot and avoid the whip. If this isn't Hell i don't know what is. > -> Is everyone absolutely certain what > ->a conditioned notion is? > > Though most do know about conditioning, of animals, they refuse to > consider that the same techniques are used for humans too.
when I searched the web on subliminal conditioning I found mostly tapes for quitting smoking or losing weight. Also animal studies. The power of conditioning - suggestions stored in our subconscious - is awesome and very powerful. Got it. Almost everyone are conditioned automation. Got it, I have noticed. One must be on the guard continuously in order to prevent further conditioning. Got it. But from what? media? friends? movies? television? newspapers? Does this mean you can't watch movies or read a newspaper? This I do not understand. Is there anything else you would like to say that you think would be useful for me/us to know about conditioning and subliminal conditioning?
> > ->Would you reckognize one if you saw one? > > IF you knew what to look for, but most can not because they do not > want to.
I want to!!! Please do see that. But I need help in order to know what to look for. A fish wouldn't see nor question the water. Things are accepted as "the way things are".
That is the benefit of having them Pointed out by those who had > to Suffering with them the same way you do.
thanks for the support. Are affirmations ever used by you as a way of support?
> -> Specifics would be appreciated from here, since there is also a vision > ->handicap and not only a listening handicap. Being more honest than I think I've ever been before.
Subject: Re: feeling stupid in math class
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 15:06:23 GMT
->how would you know if it influences your thinking and behavior?
If it is conditioned, it will. It is based on false premise thus adjacent to your True Nature. When it is What-ISNOT then it is not What-IS.
-> If it is ->designed to cause pain and keep you in suffering?
It is designed to control and manipulate.
-> The mental movies that ->are played in my head quite often is that of a "war" nature. There is ->always arguing. I am always trying to proove something, or "get" someone.
As said, Silence the chatter. If you are unwilling to do that, not even all the gods of the Cosmos can help you.
->Quite a hostile atmosphere. I reckon this thinking (although i wouldn't ->call it actual thinking) influences my behavior, right?
A lot of clutter you keep tripping over.
-> It seems that i ->do actually feed this activity, keep it going... exactly how I don't know.
You pay attention to it. Stop paying attention to it.
->Perhaps inattentiveness.
Bingo.
->My space is quite polluted. For the last 24 ->hours I've been with this. Tom's post about making the list of the things ->you think about yourself was helpful.
That was Wise advice by Tom.
->Yet the bickering in my head takes ->over... sadly more often than I would like to admit.
Then stop. Let it go. As stated above.
->What conditioned ->notions are harbored that cause this arguing, war scene inside? I ->seriously go blank when I attempt to trace what beliefs and notions cause ->this thing in me.
Too many to enumerate. Get out of your head. Meditate.
->In math class I always felt stupid for having to interrupt the teacher and ->say that i still didn't understand... and ask him to please try to ->explain further. I feel a bit the same way now.
You do ask the same questions over and over again. Actually Freud would call it an avoidance response, to keep talking so you will not have to listen. As long as the mind is chattering away you really can not hear. Listening is a lost art form, you should really work at it more.
->Could a verbal attack - words uttered with the intent to hurt - be an ->ACTUAL threat/attack/cause for deffens?
Sticks and stones my break your bones but words only evoke conditioned reactions.
->I reckon that without a listening deficiency, one then would hear another ->person in pain, and see that the other person is doing what he knows in ->order to preserve his well-being, and compassion would be the natural ->respons. Yes?
Rather do as he is conditioned to preserve conditioned notions.
->It sounds like the actual is limited to physical survival instincts...?
Primordial instinctual survival.
->Gotcha. What I meant was... is the notion/belief that there is an *I* to ->defend/protect in itself a major conditioned notion that underlies all ->conditioned defense mechanisms?
To repeat: The *I* is a conditioned Illusion so it can not get hurt. Does the shadow get hurt when you box with it ? The *I* is just another byproduct of conditionings.
->Is I am not worthy of love a conditioned notion? Are there many notions ->in that belief?
Yes. Yes.
->The basic desire of my personality seems to be competent and secure. What ->notions underlie?
Desire, personality, competence, security.
->The basic fear of my personality seems to be being ridiculed, being ->overwhelmed. What notions underlie?
Fear, personality, self-importance, security.
->My superego message is: you are good or ok as long as you have mastered ->something. What notions underlie?
Superego, ego, Duality.
->These three things rule my life. The carrot dangeling in front and the ->whip breathing down my neck. ...and of course the voice that tells me how ->to get the carrot and avoid the whip. If this isn't Hell i don't know what ->is.
Drop the Stick.
->when I searched the web on subliminal conditioning I found mostly tapes ->for quitting smoking or losing weight. Also animal studies. The power of ->conditioning - suggestions stored in our subconscious - is awesome and ->very powerful. Got it. Almost everyone are conditioned automation. Got ->it, I have noticed. One must be on the guard continuously in order to ->prevent further conditioning. Got it. But from what? media? friends? ->movies? television? newspapers? Does this mean you can't watch movies or ->read a newspaper? This I do not understand.
Yes, we are bombarded with conditionings from everywhere. Since we are IN the world there is no way of avoiding it, but since we do not have to be OF the world we do not have to buy into it. Watch it, Observe it, and shake your head and say "what drivel" and walk away from it.
->Is there anything else you would like to say that you think would be ->useful for me/us to know about conditioning and subliminal conditioning?
Learning about it is a major step in your protection from it. Salvation does not take place in your head however, so get out of your head and perhaps you can Save yourself.
->I want to!!! Please do see that. But I need help in order to know what to ->look for. A fish wouldn't see nor question the water. Things are accepted ->as "the way things are".
All the answers are before you, right in front of you, right under your nose, being Pointed to. But you see them not because you are too busy looking for them. Stop, Look, and Listen. The Trinity, so to speak.
->thanks for the support. Are affirmations ever used by you as a way of ->support?
All Pointings are Affirmations Of Light. When you See The Light.
->Being more honest than I think I've ever been before.
*Deep Bow*
Subject: (fwd) Conditioning.
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 20:08:35 GMT
On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:36:12 -0800 (PST), Bonnie <milks63@yahoo.com> wrote:
There is freedom within, there is freedom without Try to catch the deluge in a paper cup There's a battle ahead, many battles are lost But you'll never see the end of the road While you're traveling with me
Hey now, hey now Don't dream it's over Hey now, hey now When the world comes in They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win
Now I'm towing my car, there's a hole in the roof My possessions are causing me suspicion but thers' no proof In the paper today tales of war and of waste But you turn right over to the TV page
Now I'm walking again to the beat of the drum And I'm counting the steps to the door of your heart Only shadow ahead barely clearing the roof Get to know the feeling of liberation and relief
Hey now, hey now Don't dream it's over Hey now, hey now When the world comes in They come, they come To build a wall between us Don't ever let them win
-Crowded House?
===== May Rainbows Light Your Path!
Subject: Re: Ownership of "life"
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 02:52:46 GMT
Greetings Sherise, you wrote: -> EJ...I agree with you there. I recall many years ago, I spent the ->night at my grandparents. They are lovely people. I couldn't sleep, and ->I asked my grandfather for his Bible to read. I was shocked when he said he ->didn't have one. That he learns what he needs from the church. I was ->disappointed that such a remarkable man would trust his "journey" to any ->"group."
Yes, a major problem, and even if they do read the scriptures they interpret them the way they are conditioned to interpret them by the church. The real sad part is that they have to keep coming back to the Suffering to *try again* until they get it right.
-> I believe if Jesus were here to see the church, instead of money ->changing tables, he would be overturning Bingo and doughnut tables.
*Deep Bow*
-><<< Believe nothing, as Truth needs no one to believe it to be so.>>> -> -> That spoke to me. Thank you. -> -> When I went searching for the Gnostic gospels, and the condemned ->(by the church) works of Bartholomew....the words of Jesus are VERY different ->than they are presented in a standard Bible. In the gospel of Thomas...I ->will paraphrase because I am uncomfortable with quotes...Jesus said...if ->you search for the kingdom in the sky the birds will proceed you, if you ->search in the waters the fish will proceed you. That they "kingdom" is within, ->and if any man does not know himself...then he is in poverty.
Most Wise words indeed.
-> The conditioning of trust in interpretation disturbs me, ->EJ...because ->it IS so ingrained. When I read the Gnostic gospels...there is that "Grand ->Trickster" of which you speak...telling me as though I'm a bad ->schoolgirl...that I'm doing something "bad"...that these texts were not ->included for a reason. Quite an insane deceit, isn't it?
Deceit yes, insane yes, but it keeps the organization in control and rich. Fear based conditioning has been with us for a long long time. The very same Fear based conditioning used today in the present world conflict that can only cause death/destruction and Suffering. Such Evil is wrought in the name of God.
-> And when I spoke of ownership...I see your point...my writing ->acuity is lacking in this case. I meant it as an unfortunate deed...lol Simply ->because I am easily confused towards the end of knowing myself, and ->"silence."
Silence is the silencing of the mental chatter we have been conditioned to think is *normal*. Normal as to today's Seeping modus operandi but not Natural at all. The new born does no *thinking*, everything is spontaneous and without thought of this or that. Just doing, just BEing. The new born IS Silence (in the head). Not too silent in the mouth {8-> but Silent as to mind.
-> <<<Words are but place holders and have little relevance to what is ->*Spoken*. The actual meaning behind the words is most obvious regardless of the ->meanings of the words. We fool ourselves with the words so we will not ->have to face the Fear behind them.>>> -> -> You're right on the money. This scares me to death...I'm not sure ->I wanted this. I'm not afraid of physical pain. But this other pain...is ->profound. I'm sorry, but I don't like it...lol. I hear a lot of talk ->about peace in spirit and this "wonderful" awakening...it hasn't been ->"wonderful" but painful for me.
Well..... if you do not like it..... do whatever needs doing about it. Actually there is nothing wonderful about Awakening. In fact, it is quite blahzey and uneventful. What is Wonderful is that everything is brand new, and everything is Wonderful AS it IS. Each Moment from Moment to Moment holds another Adventure to be Lived. The whole of the manifested realm, seen and unseen, IS a Miracle and most Wondrous. And it is meant, EVERYTHING. Even the smallest speck of dust is packed full of the very Secrets of the Cosmos. THAT is Wonderful. But Awakening..... just seems to be another Day in the Life and nothing special about it.
-> And sexuality, EJ...Geez...I'm tellin' ->you...conditioning...subliminal ->"ingrained belief"...it's my deepest thread. It is ancient. And it's not ->a self serving desire for procreation, or anything of that nature...it's a ->physical addiction to the visual image the texture, the touch of fine ->looking men. It's my own personal heroin. It sucks.
*Roaring Laughter* Do not read the Kama Sutra {8->
-><<<We too easily deceive ourself, we too easily ->Forget. As it is so difficult to Remember.>> -> -> It's painful to remember. This "world" makes it soooo acceptable to ->go to the gym, and get my body buff...and in that context, it's acceptable if ->I get my butt to church on Sunday...listen to the droning of dogma...while I ->look around the room, taking in what people are wearing...wondering what I ->am going to make for dinner.
It is Painful, but not in Remembering Dear Friend. Remembering is a Relief -- a Relief from the Suffering. Like pulling a splinter from the finger, Painful in the pulling but a relief when out. The Painful part is letting go of all those dearly beloved conditioned notions that you have been lugging around with you all your life. Some of those get so Painful to let go that most can not bear it so they hold onto them keeping them fast aSleep. But here at this little Oasis you can be Helped in letting those notions go IF you are Open and Honest with yourself. In fact, Just Do It ! Let Go. JUMP ! We will Help break the fall {8->
-> Once...I sat there amidst my distraction...and felt it. This is ->wrong. This is not where it's going on....you KNOW better.
Well..... un-know better, and Open to the Urge of your True Nature. The yearning, the dissatisfaction with yourself and everything about you, the overpowering urge to find out for yourself, is but your True Nature pushing forth for Recognition. THAT if IT, and IT is YOU, as YOU are THAT.
-> I like was written that we are who we are when we "look into the ->mirror" and when we move from that mirror we cease to exist.
ONLY when you Openly and Honestly look into the Mirror of Truth do you actually See who you really ARE. And it is most frightening to See yourself as a conditioned controlled manipulated automaton, so we Vow to ourself that we are going to rectify that malady. OR we curl back up into a ball and go back to Sleep. It takes a Hellofa person to go nose to nose toe to toe with the Grand Trickster, so be ready for the Battle of your life. As only a few survive such the Battle. The Grand Trickster takes no prisoners (rather makes prisoners), it is either DO or DIE. So suit up girl, you've got some Work to do {8-> When Ready, you will get the Sword of Truth for your Battle. When Ready. IF you are up to the Fight.
-> It's been a tough journey.
Ya ain't seen noth'in yet young'in. Ya gota reach way down deep inta yer very be'in and take holta them ther roots of yer defilements and wrench 'em out. Painful bloody work, but no one's gona do it fer ya. Ya gota Walk dat Walk yersef. But you can always count on the Community to give you a Helping hand. We do not turn away sincere people who actually do want to Wake-Up. We just discourage those Fools to think they have a better mouse trap. There are no mice here {8-> Happy Birthday Wonderful Friend.
~ Happy Birthday ~
Happy Happy Happy Birthday how do you actually feel The first day of the rest of your life nothing else is Real, Yesterday is dead and gone the future is not here yet Just BE the Present Moment and forget the petty Bet.
Awakening is an ever ongoing process of a discarding Those controlling conditioned notions without retarding, And if done Openly and Honestly Awakening is imbued If you're not Open and Honest with yourself you delude.
Do not *believe* or even *accept* Wise Words offered Rather Dwell on them let it feed what you've coffered, Way too often most mistake the very frog for the jump We think that there is a frog that comes upon a bump.
The jump is nothing more than the frog BEing the frog So that frog and that jump are one and the same log, There are too many a so called Gurus and Teachers On every street corner selling their wares and features.
He came not to bring peace but rather a Painful sword That he would turn father against son and son's ward, Mother against daughter and daughter against mother But then did also say that there can never be any other.
There will come many a false prophets just to deceive And it is many abominations they want you to believe, Such adoration is the work of false prophets their way Of conditioning to control/manipulate by what they say.
No one can Save you you must Save yourself this day We are slave to the Grand Trickster conditioning may, Not raise but rather *pull* we are at the business end Of the chain of our conditioned ideas without a Friend.
Subject: Re: bare with me
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 07:32:09 GMT
->who decides that it is wrong?
A seldom considered notion some call Brotherhood.
->Wrong as opposed to what?
As opposed to "love thy neighbor as thyself".
->The belief that difference in skin color is dangerous?
Dangerous because it is the foundation of war and greed and conflict and hatred and sometimes mass extermination. Certainly Suffering. When All is One, how there be differences ? Duality rearing it's ugly head again.
-> This is too vague, i really want to get this. What specific notions underlied the racism? Fear of unfamiliarity? How were these notions implanted? They must have come from somewhere.
Self-importance, self-supremacy. Hand-me-down conditionings, and conditionings come from anywhere/everywhere. No one to blame but ourself when we buy into it.
-> who never stopped to ask why.
The herd.
->If you would get one of these people to be really honest, he would say that the niggers just scare me. Make me uncomfortable. They're different. Not like us. So what I am asking is what specific conditioned notions underlie such fears and beliefs? Do you see where I am coming from?
These are rationalizations that perhaps they would tell you because for the most part they did not know why, they were just conditioned to be part of the herd. You are coming form a country that does not have that many "different" people, and most likely from a sheltered social cast. Try not to *react* to this, thy to consider it.
->Thanks for your patience, I know I'm slow.
Misspelling, it is sloooooooow {8-> Not really, but it does seem as though you do not want to get it for some reason. Thus perhaps your 'answers' are in your 'questions'. But to give you an easy cop-out, as Tom said, you have to 'be there' Witnessing it to really understand it whether it be racism or any other malady.
Subject: Re: conditioning - tracing notions - vulnerability
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 05:42:08 GMT
Greetings Sherise, you wrote: -> Hi EJ...the discomfort comes from...the sneaking inkling that my ->external world...is nothing. Many years of investing myself...in this ->word...is a sham.
Sniffle, sniffle. Yes, all that work down the drain seems to be quite the waste. And all the fun we had working at it. It seems to feel pretty good for an Illusion. But then so does a mirage when at the brink of expiration from thirst, drinking gallons of wet and cool sand. We go with a smile on our face anyway. But that is what Waking-Up is all about, Seeing that it is a mirage and that we are quenching our thirst with sand. YUK !
-> I have been led...just like a happy foolish sheep, by my "church"...by ->my "government" which is now declaring war, and my "society" telling me to ->color my hair because it is coming in white...and watch reality TV...that ->will calm me back to sleep.
Ah yes, such friends and loving family and social comrades we have. Misery like company {8->
-> It feels as though I've been looking at reality with a Kaleidoscope ->that someone handed me, and demanded I use. I put it down, and saw with my ->eyes.
Yes, perception wearing rose colored glasses does make things quite cheery. But they make things quite distorted too. Like blinders that farmers would affix to a horse's head when they did their plowing. The blinders would not allow the horse to look to the right or left but kept it focused on the *straight and narrow*. Humans are affixed with them too just as they fall to Sleep. Indeed, way past time we took the blinders off.
-> Wasn't a pretty sight...all of it, particularly given the fact...THAT ->is where I've been for forty years.
"Forgive them for they know not what they do". Odd, we start out as a new born Totally Awake and it takes many years to Realize that we were led to this stupid mirage that is actually just another pile of s... sand. NOW we have to work or butt off just to get back to where we started, a Totally Awakening new born. Wasting all those years is the downside. I say 'new born' because we are Born Anew each Moment from Moment to Moment. Happy Birthday. And NOW we are in the Prime of Life. NOW we can really Live Life AS it IS. That is the upside.
-> That is where the discomfort stems from me. Society tells me I'm ->beautiful on the outside. It strokes that vanity....coddling me to sleep.
True.
-> When I abandon that Kaleidoscopic vision....I am ugly inside. -> -> That horrifies me.
Well..... what do you plan to do about it ? Pout ? Or get even ! Get even by Cleaning up the ugly duckling. All it takes is to Just Do It. And you will never know for sure whether it can be done until to DO.
Subject: Re: bare with me EJ
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:24:36 -0500
one can BE withou the me! ha! got it, got it!
Subject: Re: much to ej's relief
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 10:14:40 -0500
I was surrounded and suspended by billions of crystals today. How many people can say THAT today? I should clarify...how many ADULTS ? :)
Massive amounts of snow here in sweden. Walk outside, and you will feel the tiny hairs in your nostrils freeze. Makes for a quite peculiar experience with every in-breath you take.
Thanks for sharing, Sherise and Tom.
Subject: Re: a thought
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 07:17:16 -0800
Hi Tom,
>during the ages you have been reincarnating >was at some point in time
Shar: What did your face look like before your parents were born?
Subject: Re: much to ej's relief
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 06:54:38 -0800
Hi Sherise: you wrote: > Ugly duckling checking in...Ok...I'm done whining. ;)
Shar; Been following your words and your sharing without time to reply. You share so openly and beautifully. Your words are also works of art painting a picture in our minds. A belated welcome to you.
Peace and love to you
Subject: Re: bare with me EJ
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 07:15:15 -0800
Hi J you wrote: > She would construct these sort of games. It was like walking on > egg-shells? (anybody had these type of experiences with women?).
Shar: No, not as much with women, but daily with my ex husband. I can relate to what you are saying. I also learned though, that it is a saving, co-dependant relationship that makes us stay with them. And that makes it our issue not theirs.
>So in her case, perhaps her mom would always give her what she wanted when >she would make a sour face as a youth? She had abandonment wounds for sure.
Shar: The two don't jive together. For my ex it was definitely abandonment issues. Look into emotional blackmail and games people play. EJ has one page written some time back on games.
Thanks Shar
Subject: Re: bare with me EJ
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 05:24:18 -0500
Dear Ej and all,
> These are rationalizations that perhaps they would tell you because > for the most part they did not know why, they were just conditioned to be > part of the herd.
so they would answer to the best of their ability.
You are coming form a country that does not have that > many "different" people, and most likely from a sheltered > social cast.
True and not true. My intentions were not to get into some moralising over racism or people's sorry state of sleep, but to understand conditioning better. Handed down, you say. Makes sense. I am particularly interested, because I will have children of my own some day. The type of explanations that works for my sloooooow mind are along these lines: *father lifting up his 4 year old son* "Son, you see those black people over there? Now you want to stay away from those animals, they are dangerous. Plus they smell bad". This is a cruel and clumsy example, but it hopefully describes my brain's need for basics. No doubt the little kid would grow up a racist. Would something more sutle still condition a child? An ex-girlfriend I had was overly emotional. To her the world consisted of "good" guys and "bad" guys. Nice people vs mean people. I got the impression that she would get sour and pout when she wanted me to give her attention and confirmation. It was like a way of testing me, if I really cared for her and stuff. So she would behave obnoxiously, pretend that she wanted to be left alone, but if I left her alone, she would be furious. She would construct these sort of games. It was like walking on egg-shells? (anybody had these type of experiences with women?). So in her case, perhaps her mom would always give her what she wanted when she would make a sour face as a youth? She had abandonment wounds for sure. These are assumptions, and I am grateful for any corrections. Now what about the major conditioned notions, like duality? Are they ingraned in mom's tummy? At the child's first act of cognition? When does the apperception of multiplicity turn into rose colored perception of duality?
> Try not to *react* to this, thy to consider it.
I get reactive when I'm not sure of your intentions. I can sort of figure that anything you say is to help us wake up, and so intentions always good, but when my perception twists it into intentions that look like they want to hurt, I get reactive. Reading your post, and then reading it again was good. EJ, I sometimes feel like I spill my guts, reveal myself and dare being vulnerable. I am well aware that it is my projections spooking. I asked you before if you ever encourage with affirmations, and you said all your pointers are affirmations to them who see the Light. Well, let me re-phrase: do you ever use affirmations in the way a mother would comfort her 13 year old daughter who got dumped by her boyfriend just before high school prom? If you saw an abandoned child on the street, crying after mom, would you preach to the child about non-attachment and tell it to wake up, or would you hug it, give it a blanket and buy it an ice-cream? I believe the Buddhist call it Grand Mother Compassion. No complaint when it comes to your usage of ruthless compassion. I hope you don't think i am sour with you EJ. Again, thanks for the patience. Your prior posts will be read over again.
J
Subject: enlightened snow angels
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:28:01 -0600
Yesterday I took a walk in a snow/rain mixture. Kinda cold on my face. A bit insane from the perspective of the suit and tie crowd at work. But so alive. Walking meditation with snow!
Adults have to study mysticism, force rituals, attend therapy, consult gurus Just to come to the conclusion that paying attention and fully being aware Is a much cooler way to be. Kids plunge head first into whatever they are doing. Adults rationalize and think if it is proper or OK or normal or whatever. Jesus advised that unless we go back to being like children, we'll never get it.
Don't dwell on the past or live in hopes for the future. The past it is gone. The future has not yet arrived. Instead, look with insight into each presently arisen state. Know it. Be sure of it. Without thought of failure, or being shaken off course, put your effort into today. You may be dead tomorrow. No bargaining with death can hold its overwhelming arrival. But you who can live passionately and relentlessly with each present day, each present night, your death will remain a single excellent night. [Bhaddekaratta Sutta 3]
Subject: a thought
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:55:46 -0600
In Buddhism there is a thought. Everyone you meet every man and woman every little child every old dying person every cat and dog every animal during the ages you have been reincarnating was at some point in time your child your parent your sibling your lover
If you think of this with each encounter with each sentient being it will place it in another perspective.
Also for the ages you have been reincarnating at some point in time at some awkward moment for some unknown reason you probably did the very same thing that you don't like someone else doing now. You did it all. So there is no reason to be so pious and smug about it.
If you see people as being caught in the same traps you were once caught in and you realize that they could well be or have been your very own child or parent then it places it into a different light.
Subject: history revisited
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:33:06 -0600
Not only is history distorted to fit the paradigm of the victors, everyone's reality is distorted to fit the paradigm of what we have been taught. Subjective, every bit of it.
With our thoughts we create our history, define our world, justify our reactions, give names and relationships to things out there.
We have been tricked to accept as reality the distorted mythos of our ancestors. Christianity. Capitalism. Communism. The superiority of civilization. The superiority of being modern. Eternal heaven and eternal hell. Magic bullet salvations. Pie in the sky paradises. Money. Status. Politics. English. Greek. Hebrew. Tarot cards. Kabbalah. America. Gnostic. Witch. Southern. Northern. Athiest. Fundamentalist. Karma. Dharma. I shit my pants. AIDS. Sex. Love. MTV. PlayStation. XBox. JoyStick. Resurrection of the body. End of the world. Jesus coming soon. Come, Jesus, come again. Mary. Bulldoze the rainforests. Flood the oceans with crude oil. Dinosaurs. Roller coasters. walk in the park. breathe. what is real? all subjective. who am I? all programmed. whatever is composed will decompose and it will never come back again. so mote it be...
Subject: Re: bare with me EJ
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 15:02:50 GMT
Greetings J, you wrote: ->Now what about the ->major conditioned notions, like duality? Are they ingraned in mom's ->tummy? At the child's first act of cognition? When does the apperception ->of multiplicity turn into rose colored perception of duality?
Yes, the brainwashing starts before you even take your first breath. But this only sets the stage. You are groomed to automation from the very first, but you do not pay much attention to it. When you are of mind to pay attention to it is when you start seeing through the rosy hue others fit your perception with. At first there is only you. The rose colored glasses help you to see the 'other'.
->I asked you before if you ever encourage with affirmations, and you said ->all your pointers are affirmations to them who see the Light. Well, let ->me re-phrase: do you ever use affirmations in the way a mother would ->comfort her 13 year old daughter who got dumped by her boyfriend just ->before high school prom? If you saw an abandoned child on the street, ->crying after mom, would you preach to the child about non-attachment and ->tell it to wake up, or would you hug it, give it a blanket and buy it an ->ice-cream?
It is all in the perceiver's conditioned perception. Hopefully you are not here to hear what you want to hear because you will most likely be disappointed. No matter what is offered, until you take off those rosy colored glasses you will only perceive what is offered tinted (tainted) by that particular hue. You are too busy asking questions to find the answers. You want to explain the unexplainable, define the undefinable, label that which can not be labeled. All the busywork prevents you from BEing. BEing, all the questions lose their luster because all the answers have no luster. Again, your answers are actually in your questions.
-> I hope you don't think i am sour with you EJ.
Of course not child, sweet queries are all that is seen from here. Cranium needs a little thinning, but otherwise a floundering *babe in the woods*. Too many trees in the way so the forest is too hard to see. And the chipmunks have eaten the bread crumbs left as a trail home. Not to worry though, for this little Oasis IS Home {8->
->Again, thanks for the patience. Your prior posts will be read over again.
Ain't no thing. Re-reads 'r a good ide, bo.
Subject: Re: Racism
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 16:36:11 +0000
I had just finished reading Tom's racism example - and found the following e-mail in my box - it's supposedly a true story told by a guest on the David Letterman Show.....
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On a recent weekend in Las Vegas, a woman won a bucketful of quarters at a slot machine. She took a break from the slots for dinner with her husband in the hotel dining room. But first she wanted to stash the quarters in her room. "I'll be right back and we'll go to eat," she told her husband and carried the coin-laden bucket to the elevator.
As she was about to walk into the elevator she noticed two men already aboard. Both were black. One of them was tall...very tall...an intimidating figure. The woman froze. Her first thought was: These two are going to rob me. Her next thought was: Don't be a bigot; they look like perfectly nice gentlemen. But racial stereotypes are powerful and fear immobilized her.
She stood and stared at the two men. She felt anxious, flustered and ashamed. She hoped they didn't read her mind but Gosh; they had to know what she was thinking!!! Her hesitation about joining them in the elevator was all too obvious now. Her face was flushed. She couldn't just stand there, so with a mighty effort of will she picked up one foot and stepped forward and followed with the other foot and was on the elevator. Avoiding eye contact, she turned around stiffly and faced the elevator doors as they closed. A second passed, and then another second, and then another. Her fear increased! The elevator didn't move. Panic consumed her. My God, she thought, I'm trapped and about to be robbed!
Her heart plummeted. Perspiration poured from every pore. Then one of the men said, "Hit the floor." Instinct told her to do what they told her. The bucket of quarters flew upwards as she threw out her arms and dove to the elevator floor. A shower of coins rained down on her. Take my money and spare me, she prayed.
More seconds passed. She heard one of the men say politely, "Ma'am, if you'll just tell us what floor you're going to, we'll push the button." The one who said it had a little trouble getting the words out. He was trying mightily to hold in a belly laugh. The woman lifted her head and looked up at the two men. They reached down to help her up. Confused, she struggled to her feet. "When I told my friend here to hit the floor," said the average sized one, "I meant that he should hit the elevator button for our floor. I didn't mean for you to actually hit the floor, ma'am."
He spoke genially. He bit his lip. It was obvious he was having a hard time not laughing. The woman thought: My God, what a spectacle I've made of myself. She was humiliated to speak. She wanted to blurt out an apology, but words failed her. How do you apologize to two perfectly respectable gentlemen for behaving as though they were going to rob you? She didn't know what to say. The three of them gathered up the strewn quarters and refilled her bucket.
When the elevator arrived at her floor they then insisted on walking her to her room. She seemed a little unsteady on her feet, and they were afraid she might not make it down the corridor.
At her door they bid her a good evening. As she slipped into her room she could hear them roaring with laughter as they walked back to the elevator. The woman brushed herself off. She pulled herself together and went downstairs for dinner with her husband.
The next morning flowers were delivered to her room - a dozen roses.
Attached to EACH rose was a crisp one hundred dollar bill. The card said: "Thanks for the best laugh we've had in years."
It was signed;
Eddie Murphy & Michael Jordan
Subject: much to ej's relief
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:09:55 EST
Ugly duckling checking in...Ok...I'm done whining. ;)
I was exasperated last night, my mind chattering. I went to the store, and stood in front of the booze. And just watched it. For about twenty minutes. I touched the bottles, and deeply thought about that choice for the present. I walked away from it, in THAT moment, knowing I could go back t omorrow if that were my choice. But I decided in THAT moment, it was not my choice. I thought about my "birthday" and I bought myself birthday candles instead.
I sang happy birthday to myself, in the dark, in the parking lot. I did. And I went home, and kissed my dog. (but not on the lips). ;)
BTW...ej, I did read the Kama Sutra. It simply validated my idea that biting is acceptable in lovemaking....(I'm incorrigible..)
This morning, I was taking my son to the bus for kindergarten, and on the way back...I was thinking about your statement
<<< Even the smallest speck of dust is packed full of the very Secrets of the Cosmos. THAT is Wonderful.>>>
And I was trudging through the snow drifts, imagining all those crystals beneath my feet. The myriad angles and the math of those crystals and precision that go unnoticed. And I suddenly wanted to jump into it and make a snow angel. ;)
Just for that second in time. Being 40, and a nurse, and a published artist in the external...my mind chattered...blaring "don't even think about it...the neighbors are watching."
I was still and closed my eyes and turned down the volume of the chatter.
I christened my Dior coat. The "angel" looks good, and the crystals fell from the sky dissolving into the warmth of my skin. And now they're part of "me".
Yeah...that moment...I felt awe. Snow. I could see each tiny crystal against my glove, until it changed its form, and became something new.
My landlord will probably get a call..."that crazy Sherise is drinking in the morning...making snow angels in the yard" ;) But it was cool.
I was surrounded and suspended by billions of crystals today. How many people can say THAT today? I should clarify...how many ADULTS ? :)
It was a "moment."
Sherise (who doesn't feel the need to wear make up today. I'm going to get an early start and drive to the Cleveland Museum of Art and take in the vision of others. )
Subject: Re: history revisited
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 18:18:34 GMT
->so mote it be...
Yet another profound Poem. This Community seems to evoke them. In fact, Thomas, it is obvious from your posts lately that you have been doing some real deep introspection and contemplation of your Observations. *Deep Bow* Thank you for joining in.
Subject: Re: bare with me EJ
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 18:00:54 GMT
->one can BE withou the me! ha! got it, got it!
"One can BE Without the me!"
A most profound poem indeed. *Deep Bow* NOW, the next step is the Poet BEing the Poem {8->
Subject: Re: much to ej's relief
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 18:50:52 GMT
Greetings Sherise, you wrote: -> Ugly duckling checking in...Ok...I'm done whining. ;)
*Roaring Laughter* You are such the great sport New Friend, thank you for joining the Community.
-> I was exasperated last night, my mind chattering. I went to the store, ->and stood in front of the booze. And just watched it. For about twenty ->minutes. I touched the bottles, and deeply thought about that choice for the ->present. I walked away from it, in THAT moment, knowing I could go back t ->omorrow if that were my choice. But I decided in THAT moment, it was not my ->choice. I thought about my "birthday" and I bought myself birthday candles ->instead.
If you are going to think, what better thought could there be but *Happy Birthday* ? We have one every instant Present Moment {8->
-> I sang happy birthday to myself, in the dark, in the parking lot. I ->did. And I went home, and kissed my dog. (but not on the lips). ;)
THAT is BEing it.
-> BTW...ej, I did read the Kama Sutra. It simply validated my idea that ->biting is acceptable in lovemaking....(I'm incorrigible..)
It sounded as if you had {8-> Though the mention of the Kama Sutra is many times used in a joking manner as was done here, actually the Kama Sutra is not about sex but rather a Tantric Scripture in line with the Awakening process in enlivening chakra energies when looked correctly.
-> This morning, I was taking my son to the bus for kindergarten, and on ->the way back...I was thinking about your statement -> -><<< Even the smallest speck of dust is packed full of the very Secrets of the ->Cosmos. THAT is Wonderful.>>> -> -> And I was trudging through the snow drifts, imagining all those ->crystals beneath my feet. The myriad angles and the math of those crystals ->and precision that go unnoticed. And I suddenly wanted to jump into it and ->make a snow angel. ;) -> -> Just for that second in time. Being 40, and a nurse, and a published ->artist in the external...my mind chattered...blaring "don't even think about ->it...the neighbors are watching." -> -> I was still and closed my eyes and turned down the volume of the ->chatter. -> -> I christened my Dior coat. The "angel" looks good, and the crystals ->fell from the sky dissolving into the warmth of my skin. And now they're part ->of "me". -> -> Yeah...that moment...I felt awe. Snow. I could see each tiny crystal ->against my glove, until it changed its form, and became something new.
BEing it again. J, another example for you.
-> My landlord will probably get a call..."that crazy Sherise is ->drinking in the morning...making snow angels in the yard" ;) But it was ->cool. -> -> I was surrounded and suspended by billions of crystals today. How ->many people can say THAT today? I should clarify...how many ADULTS ? :) -> -> It was a "moment."
Correction, it was the ONLY Moment that was Real then. Just like this very instant Moment right NOW is the only Moment that is Real NOW. All else is but mental appeasement.
-> Sherise (who doesn't feel the need to wear make up today. I'm going ->to get an early start and drive to the Cleveland Museum of Art and take in ->the vision of others. )
Whoa, watch out world. "These boots are going to do some Walking" so be careful that they do not "Walk all over you". BE it ! Just Do It ! There is nothing to Fear but Fear itself.
Subject: Re: Hi ya all
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 20:27:44 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->To bring you up to date, those who are interested that is. ->I did receive notice that my complaint to the Human Rights Commission, will ->be going to Tribunal sometime after the 21st of Feb. I will be notified of ->their decision by mail. So what seemed a long time in happening, appears ->that nothing lies dormant or forgotten. A year will be in the first week of ->June. So time will tell.
Things do seem to get brighter when not dwelling on the darkness. Glad to hear that the judicial wheels may be starting to turn.
->As the Kali Yuga gains strength, the people of the world lose their rights ->as human beings and can actually justify it. More and more crawl into a ->hole giving others power to run their lives, to take away what little ->rights you do have, and call it beneficial to their survival. -> ->Oh man, tis but a sad state of affairs.
Welcome to the third rock from the sun.
->And thats my vent for the day. lol ->Back to the topic at hand, after this interruption. ->Worse than a commercial. ha ha
Good to hear from you. Was wondering whether B.C. had fallen into the ocean or something. Or the Great Mushroom got you {8-> Welcome back to Reality.
Subject: Re: Hi ya all
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:57:42 -0800
Hi EJ you said: > Things do seem to get brighter when not dwelling on the darkness. >Glad to hear that the judicial wheels may be starting to turn.
That has long turned from darkness to a source of laughter at the drama that was played, and the observation of watching the drama that is still being played on his side. The outcome is beyond my control and whatever that is, is unchangeable. It is now based on credibility. Hmmm, interesting yes.
>->Oh man, tis but a sad state of affairs. > Welcome to the third rock from the sun.
Hell, who wants to be here as a player, but as an observer, it rather comical. lol Beam me up Scotty.
> Good to hear from you.
It is inevitable, like the sun shining. One day it will happen when things quiet down and give me some time to play. Computer time has been so lacking but life has been full of other things. Mostly taking care of the ill and the snow shovelling when it did snow. Now its looks like spring.
> Was wondering whether B.C. had fallen into >the ocean or something.
No, not quite, but I can well guess that Premier Campbell wish it might. lol With the weather the way it is and everyone burning wood for heat, my allergies have been out in full force. Clogging up my breathing tubes and making my throat sore. There just has to be a better way, she says, knowing there isn't. It's always worse right in town with down drafts and inversions. Plus the breakout of eczema. Never had it this bad before. Things are just falling apart around me and on me so it seems. lol. Another cross to bear.
> Or the Great Mushroom got you {8->
I just wish it was the season. I hope to start earlier this year with other types. The bush has always been my grounding and calming zone. And after this winter, I feel excited about the snow being almost gone already. A month before normal. Then what is normal these days, or any day for that matter.
>Welcome back >to Reality.
Never far away, always watching and listening. Exceot for today, I am speaking far to much and saying no-thing at all. I have been investigating the ester c thing and if what I read is right, I should be able to consume it without a problem. Hoping so. Maybe it will help.
babble babble babble. and on she goes. Love to all from me.
Subject: Re: Hi ya all
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 00:22:56 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, ->>Welcome back ->>to Reality. -> ->Never far away, always watching and listening. Exceot for today, I am ->speaking far to much and saying no-thing at all.
Saying nothing is still saying something. Your message is not in your words but rather that you spoke them. The use of the medium is not of importance but rather that the medium was used. Words are not the miracle but rather YOU are the miracle. Watch the words and even Listen to them, but that they were uttered is most Awesome. Faintly we Hear the Song of the Whippoorwill, yet it does not even know that it is Singing. BEing whatever it is that we are BEing and not even considering that we are BEing it is Awakening. The Persistent Intensity of Life AS it IS is most Relentlessly Awesome. So BE it..... whatever that might BE.
What did your parents' face look like before you were born ? Most likely SHOCK when they knew you were on the way.
Subject: The art museum/ and peanut butter
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 21:45:15 EST
In a message dated 2/7/2003 1:57:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, ejLight@light-mission.org writes:
Whoa, watch out world. "These boots are going to do some Walking" so be careful that they do not "Walk all over you". BE it ! Just Do It ! There is nothing to Fear but Fear itself.
Hi ej...my boots led me wonderful places today!
I left my brain at the door, and walked into the museum.
I had to turn off the car radio on the drive up because I was obsessing about buying cases of peanut butter and Potassium Iodide pills for the elevated Homeland Security thing.
Until our nuke plant blows (9 miles away) I don't need peanut butter. I may not need it because I'll be vomiting from the radiation (See...I'm doing it again...fear in the future...)
I was MUCH better at the museum. For someone who loves art...there is nothing more humbling and awe inspiring than an art museum.
And without makeup and the clothes and contraptions...I was invisible! What a trip!
I really love the Old Masters...but all my "training" kept popping up...who was the painter, what was his impetus...chatter..."learned" details.
It was distracting...and then I started thinking about my car...wondering if someone was going to be hiding under it, and grab my leg when I tried to unlock the door...you get the picture...little chatter...HUGE noise. It was my "art training" that set the ball in motion.
So I booked over to textiles...I never particularly cared for them, but I knew I had no preconceived notions. It was incredible. And my mind shut up, and took it all in. Miraculous.
I went to the Egyptian stuff...and although I knew the "history"...My mind still luckily had the muzzle on...and I looked at the hieroglyphics...really seeing them. I touched them too. (I touch everything...I'm like a bad kid...lol). It was amazing, simply.
By the time I got home, my answering machine was positively loaded. Friends making disaster plans. I grabbed up my keys looking at the clock, thinking I could make it to the store in time for that peanut butter. And I closed my eyes to that flashing red light (DEMANDING my attention in such an obnoxious manner), and I was still.
I put the keys down. I already have two jars of peanut butter. And tomorrow doesn't exist. This moment exists for me...and there's a copy of "Runaway Bunny" that is aching to be read to my son. What a great book...says more than you think it might. Goodnight all!
"It's the end of the world as we know it...and I feel fine."
Subject: Re: a thought/ Tom
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 21:44:47 EST
Hi Tom...yeah, snow is something, isn't it?
And thank you for the welcome Sharlene, and thank you J, too. I appreciate it.
Tom, I think you've solved 40,000 years of sexual conditioning for me...with your words..." In Buddhism there is a thought. Everyone you meet every man and woman every little child...during the ages you have been reincarnating was at some point in time your child your parent your sibling ...your lover."
Egads! I was doing fine until I got to the "lover" part... ;)
The very thought of sleeping with my parents from a past incarnation...lol...that's too freaky for me. I can barely sit down for dinner with my mother without feeling guilt for this life...the thought of sleeping with her in a past one! Geez Louise! I'm cured of nymphomania! :::chuckle:::
Hmmm...the next man I'm eyeing up in a sweet pair of jeans...could be that medieval biscuit seller who had rat dung in the batter that caused me to die of the plague. Certainly makes one see things differently. ;)
Thanks again you guys. Really. You're all right.
Subject: Likes and Dislikes
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 07:40:29 GMT
Greetings Community
We can not actually discern what is Good and what is Evil because there is no difference. They are both the same, and both equally useless Illusions of Desires. Yet our particular conditionings Define differences based on our particular conditionings. Thus rendering our definitions mere personalized fantasy. By dropping the particular conditionings there is only What-IS AS it IS without projected particular conditionings. THEN we know what is Good and Evil, our conditionings and nothing more. They do provide good buffalo-chips to keep the fires of war and conflict and hatred and greed and corruption and Suffering burning, and little more. Just look around, outside the conditioned prison cubicle, and there is a wealth of examples to see. So Good and Evil can be known, they are conditioned fodder, conditioned ideas and conditioned images and conditioned meanings and conditioned likes/dislikes.
May it be offered that there is only Life, death is but another of those conditioned notions. For nothing can really "die". Even Einstein said that nothing really perishes, it just changes form. Not even the physical form *dies*, but rather changes back into it's natural elements cyclically. Both the notion that you will die and the notion that you will not die are but conditioned Illusions, Fear based control and manipulation. Nothing in the whole of the Cosmos, either seen or unseen, is static thus nothing can *end*. Even the Present Moment NOW is ever changing anew from Moment to Moment. The Dualistic notion that there is something that can "die" is at the very root of the Veil that prevents humanity from Truly Recognizing/Realizing Awakening. There can not be an 'other', there can not be Two. All is quite Eternal and Infinite, thus the notion of dying and not dying is but conditioned mental chatter. When we Drop the Stick we keep beating ourself with, let go of the conditioned Dualism, we Realize/Recognize that there is only BEing What-IS this very Present Moment NOW without projecting conditioned notions into/onto that BEing NOW.
So the question is, 'why like or dislike' ? Why not simply BE, and Observe the folly of likes and dislikes ? Dualism is a complication of the simple. Forget what you think you may 'know', and 'consider' what might happen to BE.
True ?
Subject: a common denominator?
From: o.dodge@att.net Date: Sat, 08
Feb 2003 13:12:12 +0000
Hi Sherise,
I feel you pain! (lol)
A few days ago, you asked the question...(I paraphrase)..."Is there a common denominator between our toxic conditioned notions?"
The short answer is "Yes" - FEAR
And regarding that - here are some thoughts to entertain...
God is perfect.
God doesn't make junk.
"You" - (and here I refer to the flesh & blood part) - are a creation of (actually - an extention of) God. Therefore - you are "perfect" just the way you are - and just the way you are not.
God gave "you" a variety of senses with varying degrees of abilities to experience your environment - taste, touch, sight, hearing, smell, etc.
God gave "you:" heart to pump blood and nourish the body.
And God gave "you" a mind to think with.
And all of those "you" components function PERFECTLY - they "work" just the way God intended them to work - and even more importantly in the context of Awakening - they DON'T WORK in some weird flawed fashion.
With me so far?! Stay awake! - there IS a point to all of this (lol) !!!
The point is - you seldom question most of these "gifts" from God - (nor should you) - you merely proceed thru life tasting what you taste, feeling what you feel - seeing what you see, etc...your senses function perfectly - just as God intended.
And your heart pumps blood without so much as a thought - it is from God so it too functions perfectly. Even when that day comes when your heart no longer pumps blood - it will be be functioning PERFECTLY - because God has designed it to stop.
Ah - but the mind! What about the mind?!!! We sometimes find ourselves questioning the mind. With all those vile toxic thoughts of lust, greed, hate, etc bouncing around in the cranium...It CAN'T be functioning as God intended - CAN IT ?!!!
Actually - yes.
Remember - God doesn't make junk - therefore, the "you" must be functioning perfectly - just as God intended. - and more importantly - the "you" IS NOT functioning in some way that God didn't intend for the "you" to function !!!
So what's the problem?
The problem is - at least in regards to the way we function is...THERE IS NO PROBLEM!!! - the "you" is functioning PERFECTLY - just as God intended. So yes - all those vile, nasty thoughts must be quite normal. Remember - God doesn't make junk - so the "you" IS functioning properly. It can be no other way.
The problem is...
one of...
mistaken identity...
Somewhere along the life's path - the mind erroneously develops the notion that it is also the thing we call "our soul" - that it is our true essense of being. The mind concludes that it is our soul, and therefore it must be the soul that is doing/causing the thinking. So we convince ourselves that it is our very soul that is generating all those vile nasty thoughts.
Sherise, it's just not true.
Because the brain/mind is merely an organ - just like the heart, eyes, ears, etc - yes - it has a prescribed function - but it IS NOT our "soul".
If you can ever manage to silence that continual monkey chatter bouncing around in the head - you will discover something quite miraculous...
"You" discover that "you" don't disappear!!! "You" discover that "you" exist beyond your mind - that "you" ARE NOT those thoughts - proof-positive that the mind and soul are not one-in-the-same.
And that's the essence of "Awakening" - the realization that "you" are not your mind.
love & grace,
oren
PS - While there is a definite and valid reason the "you" have all that monkey chatter - all those vile thoughts - (namely FEAR) - I'll save that discourse for another time. "What is the function of the mind?!"
Subject: Re: Likes and Dislikes
From: SwedishGod80@aol.com
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 05:16:12 -0500
EJ, Is not the Grand Trickster the Evil one? Are all the Christian mystics that have spoken of the evil one false prophets? Isn't your point that nothing can be overcome by antagonizing? That disliking and fearing only adds to the strength/momentum of the evil one?
"The Devil's biggest lie was that he doesn't exist. He likes that one very much".
In the New Aids... sorry, New Age stream, slogans like you are co-creator of the universe, and "all is Good, there is no evil" gain much popularity. These type of slogans aren't what you indicated as truth, was it EJ?
Subject: Re: Likes and Dislikes
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 15:40:34 GMT
Greetings J, you wrote: ->Is not the Grand Trickster the Evil one?
The Grand Trickster Causes much Evil to be wrought, and in itself is Evil, but to say that the Grand Trickster is "the Evil one" there would have to be a *Good one* which is Dualistic gibberish. There is no *other*, there is not Two. An example for you of one of your conditioned notions, that you continually ask to be Pointed to.
->Are all the Christian mystics that have spoken of the evil one false prophets?
IF they spoke of evil in Dualistic terms then yes they are but false prophets because Dualism is a false premise. BUT too often Dualists interpret according to their own false premise of conditioned Dualism thus rendering the interpretation false rather than what the Gnostics have said. When we get stuck on the words we never see where the words Point, as there is no Truth in words. Truth can only be gleaned when we look where the words Point. And a Dualist will never fathom anything uttered NonDualistically. Drop the conditioned Dualistic notions and perhaps you could understand what the Gnostics said, for until you do you will not fathom what they said. Until you do you will just make up the story line according to your Dualistic interpretations. Here is another of your conditioned notions that you have asked to be Pointed to.
->Isn't your point that nothing can be overcome by antagonizing?
Not only did you miss the Point, you exchanged a point you *like* for one you *dislike*. The Point was that you can not BE as long as there is a *we* (Two). That all the mental gymnastics is the very Veil to your Awakening. So here is a third conditioned notion of your's Pointed to.
->That disliking and fearing only adds to the strength/momentum of the evil one?
That likes/dislikes and good/evil and this/that and right/wrong and life/death are all but conditioned Dualistic fodder. Niti, Niti. A fourth example.
->"The Devil's biggest lie was that he doesn't exist. He likes that one very much".
Quoted right from the Grand Trickster's 'Modus Operandi Handbook'. Obviously you use it for reference. Or it could even be a Dualistic interpretation of something entirely NonDualistic to seem Dualistic. Example five.
->In the New Aids... sorry, New Age stream, slogans like you are co-creator of the universe, and "all is Good, there is no evil" gain much popularity. These type of slogans aren't what you indicated as truth, was it EJ?
Slogans are popular because they address the *likes*, and unpopular when they address the *dislikes*. Slogans are used to evoke reaction by conditioned notions. You are conditioned so a buzz-word or term will evoke a predetermined reaction. That is why you are conditioned, so that certain words and terms and sights and sounds will engender a certain pattern of thinking and behavior. Conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons, clinging ever so tightly to their Dualistic notions can not See One because they see double. They always see an *other* to war with or be in conflict with or oppose or get something from, which is the foundation of humanity's Suffering. As stated above, there is no Truth is words whether they be truthful or not because Truth is to be gleaned where the words Point. Get the Point ? Six -- you asked for examples, and the best example is the one you see in yourself.
Consider this: You can not BE until you drop the WE, you can not start Awakening until you drop the Dualism. Try it, you might *like* it. And you just Fool yourself *thinking* otherwise.
Subject: Re: Good vs. Evil
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 22:28:11 GMT
Greetings Sherise, you wrote: -> If you believe the kingdom is within, then you can "call" it whatever ->you want...evil, unseeing...whatever. I don't believe it's duality...it's ->the spiritual mesh.
The conditioning part of your post was wonderful, so all that can be done is agree with that part. But Duality, Dear Friend, is the state of mind that establishes the separation of particular sole identities. Establishes an *other*, establishes Two (actually more), establishes likes and dislikes and good/evil and right/wrong and this/that and inside/outside and up/down. All distorted Illusions, as some *personal* perception. When nothing IS, All will BE. When there are no-things with the myriad separate identities, "when the Two is again One" (Jesus in the Gospel of St. Thomas), there will be no *other* to fight with or kill or steal from or hate. THEN there can be Brotherhood. You say that we are capable of *both* good and evil and that *they* are *within*, and say that this is not Dualism. Do you see the fallacy in your statement ? Dualism dictates that there must be something in opposition to something else, even when it insists that these opposing forces are to be a "spiritual mesh". Dualists do not want to admit there Duality. There is a Multiplicity but it is a Unity, there can BE only One. When there is a Multiplicity there is Dualism, when there is a Unity there is NonDuality. For you see, there is nothing Dual about the Present because it is so instantaneous that there would not even be time for any inclusions. In fact, the Present is so instantaneous that it is Timeless. BE Silence, BE Still, BE Void, and there will only BE you.
-> All the esoteric arguments in the world can't change the fact that the ->capacity for both are within.
There is no "within" any more than there is a *without*. Though words used in language, there is no actual location of within or without or inside and outside. There is only YOU. Do you see the Duality in your state of mind ? Openly and Honestly Observe the processing of the mind, a most revealing study.
-> One is "who we are" the flipside is "who we have allowed ourselves" to ->become, having been exposed to conditions within this physical existence.
All, in it's atomic state, is Light thus Darkness is but the absence of Light. Likewise, the conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons we have become is but the absence of who we ARE. As there is Light even in Darkness, so too our True Nature is only Veiled by our conditionings. True Nature does not have a split personality (flip side), but rather is covered up with a lot of conditioned Dualistic clutter.
So soon you forget the snow angel in the snow.
Subject: Dualism/ ej
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 19:20:25 EST
In a message dated 2/8/2003 5:12:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, ejLight@light-mission.org writes:
"So soon you forget the snow angel in the snow."
Well...humpf! There's a fine "how do you do!" (I'm smiling ej).
Geez... Are you from Jersey, ej? You're one tough customer...I like it! I'm a Cleveland girl...right back at ya...
Noooo, I haven't forgotten a bit of it.
And Ok...(a smiling sigh...) I'll defer on my whitewashing of the Dualism bit. Actually...I couldn't even hold a decent poker face while I was typing it. I knew you'd call me on it. "Spiritual mesh" yeah...that was pretty poor.
However...here's my question...How, and why, please.... can you rationalize that is only ONE polarity? (giving my Dualistic self away)
It is Yin or is it Yang? Is it nothing...or is it ALL? Regardless of the translation of the Gospel...Jesus did most certainly speak in Dualities. When he taught the disciples to pray...they were not silent, engrossed in nothingness. They were praying to the "Father" or more accurately "Daddy" in the original Aramaic. When Jesus spoke of temptation, or mentioned the devil, tell me ej...what's your take on that?
I really...want to know your take on it. Please elaborate.
Where does it "come from" that dualism is a mistaken premise? Please don't point out the Gnostic gospels, because then it will be a fruitless "you say/ I say" over scriptural interpretation. Dualism is present in ALL beauty...chemistry and math, biology and the cosmos...why not in us?
I don't believe I'm on the wrong path here, respectfully, ej. I can engross myself in this "present." But by nature, woman are multi task...they DO think ahead. Men do not. Yeah, I know...excuses, excuses...(could barely keep my poker face for that one either...)
I recall Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day." Yes...every moment is new. But never "entirely new." No one...is without "some" degree of conditioning at all times, when they are living in these animal bodies. No one.
And I HAVE read the archives. Do not be frustrated with me, ej. I'm listening.
I'm just a bit of a dualistic doofus...LOL
Sherise ( who is wondering if ej is a man...or a woman. Pray tell.)
Subject: Re: a common denominator?
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 13:41:37 EST
In a message dated 2/8/2003 8:17:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, o.dodge@att.net writes:
So we convince ourselves that it is our very soul that is generating all those vile nasty thoughts.
Sherise, it's just not true.
Because the brain/mind is merely an organ - just like the heart, eyes, ears, etc - yes - it has a prescribed function - but it IS NOT our "soul".
Hi oren...when I studied neurology in nursing, the connections to the brain/mind fascinated me. I read volumes on "life after clinical death" and was mystified by it all. Particularly the neurosynapses of chemical/ electrical brain activity. For a long time I believed it was, indeed, the "seat" of the soul. And then in learning the remarkable differences in male/female brain due to estrogen progesterone before birth...it lost it's mystical sway over me a tad. ;)
Breaking loose from the idea that I am those "thoughts" is a tall order. But surprisingly when I keep my eye on the present, it has a tendency to manifest much less frequently.
Grace to you and Love as well
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 22:28:50 GMT
Greetings Community,
Continuing on a past post by echointhetwilight@wi.rr.com : ->>From my experience, Awakening/Enlightenmnet and everyday life - especially in ->our western civilization - seem a bit like oil & water - they just don't mix. ->It's obtainable - you can catch a glimpse - but it's rather difficult to ->maintain a footing on "the path".
And what is your experience ? It seems a Dualistic one, thus Awakening will ever elude you. There is nothing Dual in the Present, there is Present Presence. When you drag conditioned notion in there with you, the Present is no longer. The Present can not be defiled by an *other*, so when there are Two Present is not. You get glimpses at those times when the mind pauses and it is just YOU, but it is fleeting because as soon as you notice that you got a glimpse of the Present the mental chatter starts and the Present is gone (conceptually speaking). But Awakening is of use only in everyday life of interactions and living. The Key is that you have to forget about Awakening and concentrate on letting go of toxic conditioned thinking and behavior. Awakening will come around when it is Ready -- rather when YOU are Ready. And you will not be Ready until you start dropping the conditionings. The difference between conditionings that are useful and not harmful and the toxic ones have been discussion many times so do some re-reading of the Community archives. A rule of thumb is that the toxic conditionings are the controlling manipulating ones, the others are just skills either socially or personally.
In a nut shell, when you are doing whatever it is you are doing think only about what you are doing. Do not think about what you are going to do with it when you get done. Do not think about the time that it is taking to do it. Actually do not think, but if you do think just think about what you are doing. When eating a meal do not think of anything else other than eating that meal. Do not think about picking back up the meal or doing the dishes after the meal. Do not think about how you prepared the meal or what ingredients are in it. Just eat the meal and if you have to think only think about eating the meal. This exercise must be applied to everything, and easily can. Whatever is happening at Present, be Present. Get so engrossed in what is happening in the very Present Moment that nothing else exists. You do the same thing when watching a great movie that you really want to watch. All that is being Pointed to here is to apply that same all-consuming intensity when watching that special movie to every interaction and everything you do. There is no past and there is no future, the only thing that matters is what is happening right NOW. BE It. In order to do that, the Key is that you have to Silence the mind of it's self-arising conditioned thoughts. And in order to do that on a continuous basis, the Key is that you have to let go of toxic conditionings.
There is no other way. We Fool ourself thinking we can do it *our way*. Yet there has never been a case where *our way* worked, so why bother with the folly. To fully start Awakening it takes 100% -- all or nothing at all. Not that partially Awakening does not give much benefit, because it does. Partial Awakening maintaining Presence only in the Present as long as possible will be a great aid to your whole life in many ways. But to have Pure Clarity continuously you have to let it all go. And when partially Awakening you will torment yourself to no end to *Take The Leap*. For you can not *hold that Moment*, you will drift in and drift out of the Present because the Moment is ever anew.
So may it be offered, forget your experience and Just Do It ! Because, you see, your experience did not include the Present. How can that be said ? If your experience included the Present your experience would not be what it was {8-> And to glean any Insight from this Pointing you have to be Open and Honest with yourself about the Pointing or your experience will be that the finger poked you in the eye because you would be looking to close at the finger. Your experience would be the same as before -- zip.
Subject: Good vs. Evil
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 13:27:00 EST
From what is my insignificant understanding of the words of Jesus...when he told the disciples to allow the children to come to him, and then warning that anyone who would cause harm...per se...to children would suffer the most severe "hell"
Harm, in my insignificant understanding...points to the conditioning of which we've been speaking. The example of Racism...teaching our children hatred. Right now in the US, "Osama/Iraq/North Korea"...are bad. We are good. They are wrong, we are right.
We base our hatred on "God Bless America." They base their hatred on a deep belief that Allah will rightfully destroy the Infidel.
Right/ wrong...depending your point of view, and "where you are" in the physical world...your conditioning. It's all crap.
I recall in grade school, a priest teaching me about the story of the lost lamb. Here's some conditioning at six, for you. I simply could not understand why the Shepherd would leave all those "good" sheep for the "bad" one that strayed. It was gently pointed out to me, that I was supposed to identify with the lost sheep, and not the "good" 99. ;) Now..there's an embarrassed first grader...LOL.
As Jesus said... the Kingdom of God is within. If he was the Messiah of the outer Kingdom, not only would he have made a lot of people "happy" in the overthrow of Rome (which is what they had expected of a Messiah) his point would've been good vs. evil. Instead, he said "give to Caesar what is Caesar's...give to God what is God's."
If you believe the kingdom is within, then you can "call" it whatever you want...evil, unseeing...whatever. I don't believe it's duality...it's the spiritual mesh.
We are capable of "good" and "destruction." In 1994, I got into my car, drunk...with enough clarity to know I was drunk, and I started the car. It didn't matter. I didn't care. The next morning, I was relieved that I hadn't been caught. And then in a moment of quiet, I couldn't believe that initial rationalization was mine. Glad I wasn't caught? It disgusted me. Again. Self importance...it's all about ME.
All the esoteric arguments in the world can't change the fact that the capacity for both are within. Hatred, fear, self importance, confusion....tolerance, calm, humility, peace. It's the same coin.
One is "who we are" the flipside is "who we have allowed ourselves" to become, having been exposed to conditions within this physical existence.
Seeing the "Devil" as external force looking to reckon with us...is similar (in my uneducated opinion) as seeing God as a separate entity on a throne.
They are BOTH within...the light and the darkness. It is not my belief that I am God...it is my belief that I am a direct extention of God...God's energy.
The devil within, however, is of my OWN cultivation. Accepting conditions as true. Turning a blind eye to truth, the work of my mind. Of course it's "real" to me, and allows me to live in "this world," and manipulate truths for my own ends. My "devil" tells me it's OK to get drunk, that my spirituality is in tip top shape if I show up in church, that's it's OK to hate...as long as it's Osama bin Ladin.
The "evil" may very well be based in the external. If it is this world, as an entity...I don't know. I don't particularly care to know. But I suspect when "I" invite those external conditions and doubt to nest in "my" psyche as truth...I might as well call it a day. Cause the "game's over." My "demons" have a tendency to multiply, and they sing the most convincing lullaby. I can be asleep in seconds....and I have ...many, many times.
Subject: Re: Dualism/ ej
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:52:22 GMT
Greetings Sherise, you wrote: -> However...here's my question...How, and why, please.... can you ->rationalize that is only ONE polarity? (giving my Dualistic self away)
No Rationalization Dear Friend, simply the Fact that All is cut from the same bolt of cloth. There is indeed a Multiplicity, a thousand things as Siddhartha said, but they are made up of the same building blocks and Emanate from the same Root Source. An example might be that two children who do not even look related to each other can still be offspring of the same parents. The Essence is the same regardless of what all those things look like.
-> It is Yin or is it Yang? Is it nothing...or is it ALL? Regardless of ->the translation of the Gospel...Jesus did most certainly speak in Dualities.
Language is inherently conceptual and thus Dualistic in nature, that is why you can not look at the letter of the word and ever think you will see where the words Point. So you have to look beyond the words and in the space between them. Jesus was no Dualist, though interpreted by Dualists they would think he was a Dualist because Dualism is all a Dualist can understand. The words he used, as is the words that any Wise Sage used, were inherently Dualistic by nature but the Wisdom they conveyed was not Dualistic. And the only way one will ever Truly Understand what Jesus or Buddha or any Wise Sage actually offered is to BE a NonDualist as they were. Dualists can not fathom NonDualism thus Dualists are always misinterpreting Wise Sages. If you want to know what the church says be a Dualist, but if you want to know what Jesus says you have to be a NonDualist. Dualists just Fool themselves thinking they can understand Russian when the only language they know is English.
->When he taught the disciples to pray...they were not silent, engrossed in ->nothingness. They were praying to the "Father" or more accurately "Daddy" in ->the original Aramaic. When Jesus spoke of temptation, or mentioned the ->devil, tell me ej...what's your take on that?
Do not have a "take" Dear Friend, mantras have been with us longer than Jesus. When they asked him how to pray he told them to get by themselves repeat over and over a mantra (which came to be known as the Lord's Prayer). "Father" in those times also referred to "Guru" or "Supreme Teacher". When a disciple ask him why he used parables he said that it was all the common people could understand, but that the deeper Teachings were not for them but rather for the dedicated disciple. So he used words that they could relate to because he was only concerned with bettering their lot. And the parables were easier for them to understand then in that part of the world because they were not quite as brainwashed as we are today. So even today we can not understand the simplest parable because we have complicated ourselves. They were simple beautiful people, today all we think about doing is complicating everything. If you really want to understand what they understood you have to put yourself in their shoes, as if you want to understand Jesus you have to put yourself in his shoes. Otherwise you are just making up the story line via your conditioned Dualism.
-> I really...want to know your take on it. Please elaborate.
No "take", it is quite *obvious*.
-> Where does it "come from" that dualism is a mistaken premise? Please ->don't point out the Gnostic gospels, because then it will be a fruitless "you ->say/ I say" over scriptural interpretation. Dualism is present in ALL ->beauty...chemistry and math, biology and the cosmos...why not in us?
Again, *obviously*, and un-mystically, un-mysteriously, Dual = 2. Hence Dualism because you *believe* that the thousand things are separate entities unto themselves. Jesus said get the 2 back to 1, as has every Wise Sage since time immemerable. Hence NonDualism because you Realize/Recognize All is basically One. All things are not Dualistic, but rather the Dualistic perception interprets it that way. Yet not All is what it seems. Dualists separate things, NonDualist put them back together.
-> I recall Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day." Yes...every moment is new. ->But never "entirely new." No one...is without "some" degree of conditioning ->at all times, when they are living in these animal bodies. No one.
Perhaps no one, but if we had not reached for the distant stars we would never have made it to the moon. Perhaps you can not get rid of all conditionings, but if you never try you will not get rid of any. Bottom line is that you will never know for sure until you take that Leap and Just Do It.
-> And I HAVE read the archives. Do not be frustrated with me, ej. I'm ->listening.
*Deep Bow*
-> I'm just a bit of a dualistic doofus...LOL
That is the first step, now the next one is doing what needs done to Cure the Malady.
-> Sherise ( who is wondering if ej is a man...or a woman. Pray tell.)
More Dualism {8-> Does it matter what the finger if it Points to Truth/Reality ? Boots are made for Walking, fingers are made for Pointing.
Subject: Dualism/ weeding my garden?
From: SheriseAnnMara@aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:30:19 EST
I wrote: "who is wondering if ej is a man...or a woman. Pray tell."
ej "being" ej: "More Dualism {8-> Does it matter what the finger if it Points to Truth/Reality ? Boots are made for Walking, fingers are made for Pointing."
ej, you made me smile. Yes, it kind of... does matter. I need to know whether over the course of time if I'm going to fall in love with you, or be gravely intimidated by you:::laughing hard:::
OK...If I promise never to mention anything foolishly dualistic in my posts again...you can throw me a bone. Ovaries or testicles? It'll be the LAST dualistic thing I ask...huh? ;) It might be worth telling me just to shut me up. :)
OK...enough nonsense from me...down to business. I read your letter, not once but FOUR times, keeping in mind that we are dealing with "words."
I need analogy to help me in my "little" reflections. Yes, it's childish, but it helps me. I went to bed, and reclined on my back and got quiet. The concept of Multiplicity helped as a catch-all for me...in case I keep falling back d/t conditioning.
The silence I had...led me to thoughts of sex (not unusual) but reflected on a lover, who (now deceased) "I" believe to be my soul mate. (let's not discuss that...it's one little delusional belief that helps me stay alive...one that I'm not willing to rid myself of...yet.)
I remember the way he was. He was a Tantric man...and I remembered.
Four hands...one grasp. Two sets of eyes, one gaze. Two hearts, one beat. Two mouths, one embrace, one breath. Two bodies...one body.
Duality...gone. I got it. Then I swept that analogy away...and went deeper.
My "two sides of the coin" business came to light. And then I recalled your words of "me" veiled. (it's so hard making my point with words...I hope you understand where I'm going.)
My idea of the coin evokes all sorts of notions of dualistic choices. Sin/ goodness...and all that. My silence became a garden, and I'm standing there...thinking "what about sin?"
The voice, "it's a weed, it's not truth...pull it..."
"what about good/ Evil?" again...a weed grown through conditioning, "pull it."
And your "thought" of the veil was very intense. That the coin is inherently wrong. As the weeds do not "touch me." They are really not the flipside of "me."
And every "dualistic" appearance that "came " to me...through my "superior intelligence"...LOL...I "felt" something telling me to "shut up" and listen.
It was like..."stop making your list of weeds...pull them. It's simple. There is ONE magnificent truth in the garden. Clear your weeds away. Simply."
Simplicity. "The same cloth." Don't make it harder than it has to be.
Am I off base again...playing with my own head...or does this make sense?
I want to get this straight before I reread the Gospel of Thomas once more.
Sherise (BTW Good morning!)
Subject: Re: Dualism/ weeding my garden?
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 18:18:53 GMT
Greetings Sherise, you wrote: -> ej, you made me smile. Yes, it kind of... does matter. I need to ->know whether over the course of time if I'm going to fall in love with you, ->or be gravely intimidated by you:::laughing hard:::
In Awakening both feminine and masculine forces are quite aligned in unison AS One, regardless of the form's gender. Thus there are Awakening females as well as Awakening males. That is, non-physically we are all the same, thus actual Love knows no gender. With that said, EJ is male. But fall in love with Awakening, EJ has enough problems {8->
-> something telling me to "shut up" and listen.
Indeed the art of True Listening has faded to very little practice these days. Most *hear*, except that which they are conditioned to block out, but few actually Listen. That is, actually understand what is said beyond the words. Not only Listening with your ears but Listening with your whole being. Likened perhaps to being alone out in the woods at a moonless night, knowing full well that there is a huge bear in those woods who just might want to snack on your leg. And the bear could be meeting you from any direction. But there is no sound, not even the wind is blowing, dead silence. But you can not just think about the bear in fear, you have a tent to set up and a fire to build and a meal to cook and eat. So you go about doing what must be done to take care of business camping, AND Listen with ears and ALL your senses not only for a cracking twig but also auric presence. BEing Listening. Even with the noise of making camp, though mental chatter gone.
Cardinal Points: BE Still and Listen.
-> It was like..."stop making your list of weeds...pull them. It's ->simple. There is ONE magnificent truth in the garden. Clear your weeds away. ->Simply."
*Deep Bow*
-> Simplicity. "The same cloth." Don't make it harder than it has to be. -> -> Am I off base again...playing with my own head...or does this make sense?
You are right on Target ! On a roll. The mind is a wondrous Tool that we use to thwart self-arising thoughts. Thoughts do not arise FROM the mind but rather are PROCESSED by the mind. The mind is simply a processor, developed and refined over the past few million years, thoughts arise from memory stored in every cell of your body. You can not get rid of the memory because you would not want to get rid of the form any more than you can get rid of the arising thoughts because you would not want to get rid of the mind. BUT you can set the mind not to automatically process the thoughts. That is, you set the mind to process thoughts AS NEEDED and not self-processed. You *set* the mind though *practice*. Meditation is a Key Tool for aiding in setting the mind.
-> I want to get this straight before I reread the Gospel of Thomas once more.
Reference is good for gathering Vital information and Pointers, but the Wisdom is not in the book but rather in the practice of the Wisdom once the book in sat down. It is after all the Talk is done and we start Walking that Talk do we start Awakening.
-> Sherise (BTW Good morning!)
Morning ? It's already tomorrow in China.
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