The Light Mission Community-Forum Archives

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:27:44 -0800

>YOU are the mother who gives birth to Desire, so YOU have to take the Birth Control to stop giving birth to Desire. It is not a matter of suppressing or repressing or avoiding or submitting or subduing, but rather in not mothering them in the first place. And why we mother such a monster ? -- is that we are conditioned to do so. YOU are the mother and the Grand Trickster is the father.<

This morning, i am drinking hot water instead of coffee....just an experiment....and i see that the coffee is not really needed ....i could have it anytime, but i do not need to automatically drink it every day as a mere habbit....and i generated the desire...i mothered it...i desired it....now the grand trickster is like the Queen of Hearts that says "off with your head" or "off with their heads" every time that someone does not conform to her wishes....she is a perfect feminine trickster...is she not. Ah...now i am seeing that when one domino is toppled...a bunch of dominos can fall...or dominos of conditionings....it is quite hilarious to play this dumpster game.

Subject: Re: Welcome Victor

From: Victor Torrico <vtorrico@cfw.com>

Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 14:10:38 -0500

* Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com> [010102 13:26]: > Just wanted to welcome you Victor. I have been not on the net everyday > as usual...just different for me lately. Now as E.J. says....I like your > style of lurking. > Like the name of your retreat "Highland" as there is Irish in my blood. > Now it is a braveheart soul that will feast with the likes of us > here...now where is my tail that I just finished chasing :) > Jacquie >

Thanks for your kind welcome Jacquie. I have been married to Virginia, a fine Irish colleen, for some 47 years. Quite a combination, my dad was born in Peru, may mom in Spain and I in Buffalo, New York where they met. So our children are Peruvian, Spanish, Irish --- Not too many of them around. Highland comes from Highland county, Virginia. It got its name from the fact that it has the highest mean height of any county East of the Mississippi River. It's called Virginia's Switzerland.

We live at 2000 feet in the thriving metropolis of Head Waters, population 42, and we actually live in the suburbs. :)

May peace and peace and peace be everywhere.

Subject: Re: ray (tuesday)

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 02:16:55 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->now the grand trickster is like the Queen of Hearts that ->says "off with your head" or "off with their heads" every time that ->someone does not conform to her wishes....she is a perfect feminine ->trickster...is she not.

*Deep Bow*

-> Ah...now i am ->seeing that when one domino is toppled...a bunch of dominos can ->fall...or dominos of conditionings....it is quite hilarious to play this ->dumpster game.

True enough, as we root out one conditioned notion we can more Clearly See others. And once on a roll they all start toppling when we go after them with a certain vengeance. "I'M COMING AFTER YOU.......... AND HELL'S COMING WITH ME". It seems to be a never ending battle, but alas, when we get the upper hand and dispense with our conditioned notions we Realize that we are left with Nothing. Nothing left to lose. Freedom. To BE. An awesome Oneness pervades one's whole BEing and one Empathizes with and has Compassion for whatever IS What-IS, for one IS What-IS. No more separation between oneself and any other diverse form in this manifested or unmanifested realm for we ARE this manifested and unmanifested realm. A totality of BEing One with/as whatever IS, seen or unseen. When we ARE our True Nature we Realize that our True Nature is the True Nature of all that IS. Then we Observe the Observer as the Observed -- we ARE that which we Observe. Our interaction with everyday life takes on a certain flow, a certain continuum of everything and everyone. We no longer see the outer facade but rather the True Nature AS it IS. Even the *Dumpster Game* is seen for the game that it is, because we no longer have to play it. {8-> Indeed a Game to Trick the Trickster, but Awakening we See the True Nature of the Grand Trickster also.

Then one has to be Mindful that the Trickster does not slip something over on you. In so doing, this state of BEing just goes on and on. But it is not a lala land state, it is a countenance that interacts with daily life whether you be a homemaker or factory laborer or an office desk jockey. It is not about going off to a cave and dwelling in the ozone, it is about emanating this state of BEing into every aspect of your life and embracing whatever life is for you in/as this state of BEing. And though much of the time we feel like bursting out laughing at this strange world of Illusion that we interact with, we take a deep breath and hold a poker-face (while ROTFLOAO in our head) {8->

As far as the hot water versus coffee, psychologically the same difference. Some lemon water in the morning is a good *pirker-upper* too. And a good purger of toxins {8->

Subject: reminders

From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>

Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 09:30:25 -0800

This morning the cause of my suffering was seen ..then by understanding this formular the cause of my suffering ended....that simple....and yet i do need to be reminded again and again until this is practiced all day long. j

>Mathematically: - conditioned notions = in the Moment = Desirelessness. Mathematically: + conditioned notions = in the past and in the future = Desire. <

Subject: Re: Time

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 05:28:55 GMT

Greetings Community,

Yes, time is always on the move: http://12.13.171.162/time/time.htm

Subject: The Mythological Mother

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 07:33:47 -0800

Found an interesting myth that may appeal to some, and may also twig a bit of recognition.

There once was a boy who lived in a village in the jungle. Like most young boys,there came a time when he wanted to explore a larger world. So one day he plucked up enough courage and told his Father,"I want to see the world". With his Father's blessing, the boy left the village,taking his only his dog for company,and travelled for several days until he came to the edge of a pure and pristine lake, right in the middle of nowhere. The boy looked around and saw that there were no footprints going down to the water. Indeed, to all intents and purposes the lake appeared totally untouched. And yet he had an uneasy feeling about it. He walked slowly around the lake,looking to see if anyone was about. Eventually, he found a huge house, hidden in the jungle nearby, but nobody appeared to be home. After a while,as he was quite thirsty,he gingerly scooped two handfuls of water from the lake, one sip for himself and one for his dog. Then he climbed a nearby tree to wait and see what would happen.Soon the lad realized that his uneasiness was justified,for on the horizon he saw somebody coming,and as the figure got nearer he saw that it was a half giantess. She lumbered slowly to the edge of the water and started to drink. Finally,when she had quaffed every last bit of the water in the lake,she began to wail and cry out," I will never be able to shake my thirst.Someone has taken two sips of water from my lake" After a very long while,the giantess stopped wailing,disappeared into her house and returned with a large pot,which she placed on top of a fire she started in a nearby clearing. She began to cook an enormous stew in the pot,loading in bags of grain,rice,bushes,trees and any animals she could find. Horses,cattle,sheep and pigs all went into her pot as the stew began to simmer. While the great concoction was bubbling,the giantess went back into her house and the hungry lad saw his chance to have some dinner. He jumped down from his tree and clambered up another with a branch overhanging the stew pot. From there he could lean down and reach the stew without being spotted. Using his spear, he carefully withdrew a morsel of meat for himself and another one his dog; then he waited. By and by, the half giantess came out of the house, and sat down to eat. In a short space of time she had ingested the entire stew. But when she was finished she became very, very angry. She raged, swore and stamped around,saying that she would never be able to satisfy her hunger because two pieces of meat had been stolen from her stew. The boy was terrified at the sight of her displeasure.Eventually her anger abated and she went back into her house and he quickly climbed down his tree and ran home. On arriving back into his village, he found his Father and told him, " I have seen the world".

Subject: Time

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:01:13 -0800

Hi all, back again, computer seems to be working fine now, we'll see. Had some problem with a bios or something. So now am trying Win98. Not sure about that though.

Anyway, had some thoughts about time, healing and being in the moment-that I thought I would share, I know, yahoo..........NOT!

Did you know that healing occurs only while we are in an altered state of consciousness or as we call it...being only within the moment? This thought is the one that triggered the run on about time.

Time is an illusion and it is a paradox. For those who are into paradox. We live in a time controlled world, otherwise known as a clock. Tick tock. The clock is what divides our time, therefore our experience. We get so we conceive time in the past. the present and the future. If you take the moment, draw a line, the moment is but a dot upon that line and barely exists at all, therefore creating the paradox, and the problem some have with the concept of living only within that moment. And yet again, if that moment is next to being non-existent, would not the past, the present and future be also within that non existent paradox of linear time? IT is only a belief system that we exist in a time frame for if -within this dot, this present moment, is all that exists, it must also contain all that exists.....including the universe, the past, the present and the future, all rolled into one.Pretty fantastic for an almost nothingness existence.

The now, this moment, is under scrutiny by scientists to see how small they break down this linear time illusion. It has been said that the now is being squeezed into nano seconds and farther until now becomes something of a machine experience and no longer a human one. And yet we know that it is not, and never will be the case. For in the moment- we just are, and that can never be measured by man or machine.

Illness, anxiety, depression, and pain, are illusionary time experiences created by the illusionary time experience. If that makes sense. We are born under time, live under time and die under time. Time is man's biggest stressor. Time is the root of illness-the past, the present and future, and our conditioned belief systems about all of them and within them.

We have to constantly remind ourselves that we are being drawn into the belief system that time is reality instead of an invention by man. It was created as a so called benefit, as a way we can plan and use as much of our time productively, instead of living by inner voice and inner knowing.

Linear time never returns to the same place. Linear time has no natural rhythm. It doesn't recognize any natural cycle. Such as moon cycles, menstrual cycles, seasons, waking, eating, sleeping. Without feeling a need for constant change along with a calender, people adapt to living within the cycles, and live more within the moment, rather than thinking or worrying about past, present or future linear time frames. As an example, I am (was) an avid gardener and in the fall, there is a ring around the moon, indicating that frost or weather change is coming. In linear time, that change always falls within a 3 week time frame.This is what dictates my harvesting of tender vegetables, not the calender. If I gardened by the calender, it would be just another job that had to be done, when it had to be done, instead of something that was enjoyed. Stress.......

If you take a fairy tale and its wonderful beginning........Once upon a Time.......and read into the story, you find that time is illusionary. Once upon a time can mean anything it wants to, when it wants to. A year or ten years can be left out. As in Sleeping Beauty...she slept for 100 years and when she awoke, everything remained the same as it did when she first went to sleep. So where was the change that linear time dictates as normal, or reality?

This is the same as illness. Illness is created through time and what we think, do or say within that time. Most illness can traced back to stress or trauma, which again is a form of stress. If we create illness through stress, be in stress on the body, mind or spirit........then doesn't it make sense that we can healed by dealing with that original stress/trauma or removing that stress from our lives? It has been said that Time is a healer......time is a sickness, a disease that has been burned into brains. Time is not a healer, healing is accomplished when we return to living within the moment. Memories fade with time, memories are buried deeper with time.......time does not heal, time makes us sick.

Energy work which moves the Qi within our bodies speaks to us. Blocks and pains of long forgotten trauma are revealed when we try and move that Universal life force through us. But do we listen? Do we hear and pay attention to it? Most of the time....not.... Pain is the only way the body can communicate to us. Pain is the only thing that can bring our attention to our dis-ease. Long term illness or pain is speaking to us. We can be told that pain is psychosomatic..and it probably is, but we are told that only after all conventional medicine tests fail to show us anything else. We always tend to search outside ourselves for a cause and a cure to our suffering, and most times we don't find an answer we want to hear. . Do we work on finding the cause of that pain? Not through conventional medicine we don't. Not through Holistic medicine either. Medication is medication no matter what handle we put on it. Healing can take only take place when we are in the moment. No matter what that moment brings, be it a memory, be it fear, anger or whatever.......deal with it as it happens, stay within that moment and find the cause of that pain. Neither the past, present or future can hurt us, we only exist within the moment we are in. The past only hurts us when we dwell there, or when we have carried that past with us into our moment that we are experiencing NOW.

This is the message that I am trying to get across to my family.. perhaps I never will. But the seed has been definitely planted, now to nurture and see if it grows. If not..........Where is my big stick??????

Subject: Re: Baggage

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:59:06 GMT

Greetings Community,

It has been said: ->1. Wondering about non-duality. It is a contradiction to speak of ->non-dual experience, since there is no experiencer or separate ->experience. Who could report back and to whom are they reporting ->about this so-called experience? So what is that all about? (One ->package of great doubt and wonder)

If I may offer that, though the experiencer and the experience are indeed one in the same (non-dual), does non-duality not recognize the multiplicity in Oneness ? Though indeed all that IS is One, I would say that this formless One is of a myriad of forms (form being formless and formless being form). And though one's utterance of the experience of Oneness to another is indeed dualistic in it's very nature, how else could this non-dual Oneness be Pointed out at all ? I would also offer that it is a Law that we must Help our brethren that All start Awakening and not just those Awakening. If Siddhartha (for example), in his Realization of non-duality did not also Realize the multiplicity of this non-duality we would no doubt be as Blind as we were then. The best we can do, I would say, is to let go of our conditioned modus operandi and see what happens.

->2. Dying for enlightenment. In spite, in my baggage, its ->still a thing to be attained, and what a wonderful thing it is ->imagined to be. (one bundle of desire)

Enlightenment is not *attained* Dear Friend, it is Realized very non-dualistically. It can not be found or received or given, or even possessed. And you can not stay back there at the Ranch and ever Realize it. It has to be Realized IN a state of Reality, which is only IN the very instant Moment. We can not always be a step behind or a step ahead of ourself, which we mostly are, and still Realize Enlightenment. You are correct that it is futile to want Enlightenment, so the best we can do I would say is to let go of our conditioned modus operandi and see what is Realized.

->3. Spiritual practice. Again, goal orientation or what? Why do ->anything at all. To reveal the truth of ourselves? To rip ourselves ->apart? (a package of striving)

"Spiritual" is a worn out catch-all term used in so many ways with as many definitions. Just a word we use to indicate something not physical, which also can mean about anything. A word we use because it seems to Point in the direction that we are trying to indicate. Practice is another evasive word we use usually in conjunction with the other evasive word of "spiritual". Practice, as the definition of the word implies, is a dry-run getting ready for the Real thing. So, it would seem that we can not focus on given words for any sort of Understanding but rather focus our attention to where the words Point. For Non-Duality or Enlightenment or even Spiritual simply ARE so all we can do is let go of our conditioned modus operandi and BE Non-Duality or Enlightenment or even Spiritual.

->4. Human incarnation. Why is there something instead of nothing. (a ->question that might pose a danger to society)

Why did form manifest ? How could such a question be answered ? And by whom ? Perhaps it was bored and had nothing better to do {8-> Why wonder ? After all, it IS What-IS so why not Realize what is IS ? AS it IS ? So, I would say, the best we can do is to let go of our conditioned modus operandi and BE What-IS.

The lights are on, is anyone home ? More to add ? Or restate ? Or query ?

Subject: Re: reminders

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:32:18 GMT

Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->This morning the cause of my suffering was seen ..then by understanding ->this formular ->the cause of my suffering ended....that simple....and yet i do need to ->be reminded again and again until this is practiced all day long.

Zikr -- indeed it is about Self-Remembering, Remembering the True Nature that we ARE thereby Realizing or Recognizing who/what our True Nature ISNOT. A WHACK now and then helps the Remembering {8->

Subject: Chat

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 09:37:36 -0800

Anyone out there or in here that can try the chat with me for a moment??

Subject: Re: Authority

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 17:31:31 GMT

Greetings Community,

It has been said: -> I have observed those that assert "All is One" -> or"There is no Other" often do so with insufficient Pa -> (Authority).

As I recall, the saying was "One For All" and "All For One". The Three Mouseketters. And as I recall, there were no Pas or Mas so obviously no "Authority". But as I recall, they did wield a mean pointy stick -- which has proven many times to be a very convincing alternative for Authority.

->This is similar to reading the last page of -> a book and yet having no understanding of it's contents.

As I recall, the Three Mouseketters were not heavy into reading at all, last page or otherwise. Most people, on the other hand, can read whole libraries of books and have no clue as to what even a page of any of those books mean. They say they are authorities and Talk a convincing Talk because they have read the books, but need a wheelchair to get around because they can not Walk. Then there are those few who have never cracked a book in their life yet just simply knows what another may be talking about. May have something to do with one's conditioned modus operandi, as to authority.

-> If you ask them "What is in chapter three?" -> They will remain silent, reassert the above, or make -> something up.

Not being avid readers they would not do well on quizzes. They would no doubt take the pages of chapter 3 out of the book and give then to you, assuming that by you asking about chapter 3 that you wanted to know what was in that chapter.

-> All of which would be correct if -> done with sufficient Pa,

Or a pointy stick.

->which of course is gained -> by reading the entire volume, and truly understanding -> it. The question inevitably arises," Which volume and -> how does one begin to understand it"

It would seem that all volumes are valuable resources of information, packed with knowledge. Yet, not a one will contain Truth or Wisdom. At best, Pointers. But just reading the volumes, every page, and of course knowing the language, does not necessitate Understanding. And if the volumes are *opinions* and not True Pointers to Truth and Wisdom, the only understanding that will ensue will be a knowledge of the opinion. And if we are still clinging to our conditioned modus operandi we will no doubt *believe* that the *opinions* are Truth and Wisdom. And IF the volumes do indeed Point to Truth and Wisdom, they still can not be Understood if we still cling to our conditioned modus operandi. So it would seem, to Truly Understand anything, especially True Pointers, one would have to let go of one's conditioned thinking. The world is flooded with so called "authorities" certified by the Grand Trickster the conditioned modus operandi (conditioned ideas and meanings and beliefs and notions of all sorts). May I offer that if True Understanding is what we are after, the volumes have to wait until after we let go of our conditionings.

->The answer is -> this," When your karma has ripened through compassionate -> selfless thought and action nothing between heaven and -> earth will bar you from understanding. Which volume -> is irrelevant."

We indeed must not let our Karma get in the way of our Dharma. But Karma is not a fruit or vegetable that ripens, but rather a coordination of phenomenal events. And if we are still clinging to our conditioned notions we will feel like the bug that happened to be in the way of the windshield or the ball that got in the way of the bat. Yet, when we let go of our conditioned notions and the subtle workings of Karma brings events together we feel more like the mouse that got away with the cheese. Since heaven, and I might add Hell, IS Earth it would seem that the quote given indicates that by letting go of conditioned notions and BEing Compassion and Selflessness would constitute True Understanding. And that any volume is irrelevant until we do let go of our conditioned notions and BE Compassion and Selflessness.

It is all in the angle of the dangle. Yes, or no ? Or both ? Or neither ? Or either ? Phenomenally conceptually speaking, of course.

Subject: Morning thoughts

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:17:19 -0800

You know, sometimes life isn't about what you think you want, or need, its about what you do with it. I had a phone call that told me that I was avoiding myself and my life by being involved with other's lives. This got me to pondering, which happens from time to time as you are aware. I had the ponder, "What would I be doing right now, if I wasn't doing what I am doing?" The answer was "probably something that would make me totally miserable if I had the courage to admit it" Then it occurred to me that the caller had no idea about what I am doing. We come from different moments and different here's and yet neither one owns the moment or the space "here". It seems we can are as one within the moment and not always within the space. This is not a judgement but an observation. Each of us interpret the space and moment as being something totally different and yet right for ourselves. There is no compromise that makes the moment or the space the same for either. You either are, or you are not. There can only be awareness and acceptance (or not)of what is, then move on into the next moment.

That's my statement for today. Unless it changes within another moment that is.

Subject: Re: Morning thoughts

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:47:14 GMT

Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->You know, sometimes life isn't about what you think you want, or need, its ->about what you do with it.

I've always loved friends of the Way Always held them dear Meeting a stranger with silent springs Greeting a guest talking zen Talking about mysteries on a moonlit night Searching for truth until dawn When the tracks of our inventions disappear And we see who we really are -- Cold Mountain

-> I had a phone call that told me that I was avoiding myself and my life by ->being involved with other's lives. This got me to pondering, which happens ->from time to time as you are aware.

Those who are devoted to the Dhamma made known by the Noble Ones are unsurpassed in speech, thought and action. They are established in peace, gentleness and concentration, and have reached the essence of learning and wisdom. -- Sutta Nipata

->I had the ponder, "What would I be doing right now, if I wasn't doing what ->I am doing?" The answer was "probably something that would make me totally ->miserable if I had the courage to admit it"

No beginning to practice, no end to enlightenment; No beginning to enlightenment, no end to practice. -- Dogen

-> Then it occurred to me that the caller had no idea about what I am doing. ->We come from different moments and different here's and yet neither one ->owns the moment or the space "here". It seems we can are as one within the ->moment and not always within the space.

Here is the place; from here the Way unfolds. -- Dogen

->This is not a judgement but an observation. Each of us interpret the space ->and moment as being something totally different and yet right for ->ourselves. There is no compromise that makes the moment or the space the ->same for either. You either are, or you are not. There can only be ->awareness and acceptance (or not)of what is, then move on into the next moment.

Go beyond this way or that way, to the farther shore where the world dissolves and everything becomes clear. Beyond this shore and the farther shore, beyond the beyond, where there is no beginning, no end, without fear, go. -- Buddha

-> That's my statement for today. Unless it changes within another moment ->that is.

A Garden is Never Finished. -- Zen

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