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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ February - Page 2 ~
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Subject: Re: Food and changes
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:55:07 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->So how does the awakened individuals consider food....
As far as I can tell, they eat it. AND do not really "consider" it at all. The form needs sustenance to survive so we must let it have it's way in such matters. Problem is that people do not know how to eat. They eat as they have been conditioned to eat, so they are unhealthy whether they feel miserable or not.
->Myself, (not ->claiming to be awakened) since I quit smoking gained five pounds, which ->I recently lost...through hard work. The body at 57 does not metabolize ->the same as it did at 25...so consequently I must eat much smaller ->portions and exercise more.
Wise observation Dear Friend.
->Now what is the big deal about being ->slim...I dunno know except I don't like how I feel and lets be honest, I ->don't like looking like the rolly polly gramma either...althoug of ->course thats what I am, for now.
Slim is not the important factor, but rather healthy. To the so called standards of the day, or personal preference, slim seems to be in. But if you are not concerned with being "in" then health is what you should be looking for. Over weight is unhealthy, it causes the form to work very hard to carry all that extra weight around. Why burden the body with such distraction when you are trying to focus attention on Awakening ? Though you will be slim (or at least weight/body balanced) by eating healthy anyway. I read a blurb many years ago when McDonalds fast food restaurants started booming. It went something like, 'ever since the advent of McDonalds, America has become the most over weight and under nourished country in the world'. How True it is.
->Now I suppose that I have to see ->through all this malarky...but then I do not want to end up being 200 ->bls. either if things keep on the way they were going so, here I am ->realizing that the days whene I ate whatever I wanted, and how much I ->wanted without gaining a pound are over...and what is, is of course what ->it is now.
Ah. May I offer that a person once related to me that it is not always 'how much' one eats but more in 'what' one eats. Amount is of course a factor, be it a minor one. High protein and low carbohydrates, that is the key to weight balance and even weight loss. The body-builder's diet. After getting on a diet of high protein and low to no carbohydrates, then amount of intake figures in. Though on this kind of diet you can generally eat until satisfied and the body will automatically lose the fat, one might want to regulate the amount of intake to lose weight. Water is good, but adding pure lemon juice to the water helps the water purge the system of fats and other toxins. Water just flushes the system, lemon juice purges the system.
What is high protein and low carbohydrate ? Any soybean product, or buckwheat. If there is a Seventh Day Adventist church around where you are, call them and ask them where their nearest super market is. They are basically vegetarian and have their own super markets. The public can shop there too, and they do not care that you are not a Seventh Day Adventist. Well.... of course they care, but they will gladly give you the information to buy at their store anyway. That way it is not as expensive as trying to shop at a health-food store. Take a look through one, you will be surprised at how good a vegetarian can eat {8-> Carob for chocolate lovers and cheese made of almonds (no dairy) for cheese lovers, vegetable pasta for pasta buffs. Vegi-chicken chunks, vegi-swiss steaks, vegi-burger, vegi-hot dogs, all soy products. Eat hearty, but eat healthy. Who knows, there is a Miss America pageant every year {8->
Subject: Re: food and change (E.J.)
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 02:35:52 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Thanks E.J....your suggestion of high protein (soy) and low carbs. ->sounds perfect to me. And the rest of what you said, I hear too. I will ->for the interest of saving speace, just say thankyou from the top and ->bottom of my heart :)
I said nothing of exercise before, but that is still important too. Exercise regularly, not strenuously but regularly, keeps the cardiovascular system in good shape, and get 15 minutes a day direct sun light when possible. There are a lot of nutrients in sun light and it helps recharge the battery {8->
Subject: Re: Food and Culture
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 05:00:52 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->I am still wondering about food. Some cultures take their time while ->eating...
Ah, to savor in reverence the smallest morsel of the simplest food that it (in the food chain) *joins* with you and becomes you in the demise of the one for the generation of the other. A most solemn relationship.
->and eat just one course at a time, talking, visiting with ->others.
Ah, being kind to the digestive system so as not to overload it, so the whole body can partake in the very essence of the sustenance.
->They pay attention to the arrangement of foods, the colors, and ->the juxtaposition of foods...so interesting and lovely of course.
Ah, not only to create the congenial harmonic appropriation of food into and throughout the system, but also add visual and mental appreciation in this ritual of consumption.
->Now ->look at the Japanese tea ceremony for instance...how each thing is ->noticed...how one holds the tea pot and the pouring of it, and nothing ->done without mindfulness...
Ah, including the above, it is a Dance this consumption. Ever present is that which is consumed, so too should we be as ever present. When you eat, eat. When you drink, drink. BE the Union of the consumed and the consumer. Eating or drinking or doing anything is a Meditation. Everything we do we should do in a Meditative State of BEing.
->it seems to me that us Americans hurry too ->much, gobble without tasting and do not even see the beautiful colors of ->each food.
As said in an earlier post, Americans are the most over weight and under nourished people on Earth.
->Some cultures even say that certain foods are yin and other ->foods are yang and that it is always best to eat what is growing there ->in that particular season...
There is a whole science of MacroBiotics, that tells us what to eat and when to eat it so as to enjoin the harmony of Nature. So as to harmonize the body in tune with the Nature that it IS.
->now what grows in winter?
Green-house -- hot-house.
->Perhaps one fasts ->more in winter and notices even that the squirrles had stored something ->aside for winter...is the nut a winter food...who knows...at least for ->the squirrle it is.
Fasting should be regular, not just due to seasons. Squirrels are nuts {8-|
->Now the chinese think that hot tea should be drank ->in the heat rather than the cold tea that we do for it helps the ->Chi...who knows
A simple matter of physiology. In cold weather you want to lower the body temperature so as not to feel the cold so much, so you drink cold liquids. In hot weather you want to raise the body temperature so you will not feel the heat so much, so you drink hot liquids. This is keeping the system energy in balance, Chi.
-> ...does one even realize that the teeth that we eat with ->is so perfect in mastication and that chewing itself is an art just as ->painting a picture, perhaps...
Ah, the body is a most remarkable mechanism. The Dancer in the Cosmic Dance of Life.
Subject: re: food and change (E.J.)
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:04:40 +0000
For what it's worth -- I heard some guy on the radio being interviewed a few months ago about human longevity in relation to demographics. He looked at various segments of the population, focusing mainly on lifestyle, diet, and occupation. Interestingly enuf, vegetarians didn't fare so well in the lifespan spectrum -- living only to the age of 58 (where 74 is closer to the norm). Dentists didn't do very well, either -- living only to an average age of 57. Strangely enuf, I think it was Idaho that did that best as a state -- followed by another northern state -- but can't recall which one.
However, I believe those stats may be a bit skewed on the vegetarian's average lifespan for one reason. When people develope a serious illness (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc...), probably many will radically change their diet, and I'm sure that many of those decide to go "vegetarian". So they be closing the gate a bit late as the horse may already be out of the barn, so to speak, as permanent life-robbing damage to their body has already occurred.
I can offer a little direct testimonial as to what EJ was saying about high-protein low-carb dieting -- I lost about 25 lbs on one -- and have managed to keep the weight off for almost two years now by restricting my carb intake -- (I allow myself some carbs, now). Would also mention that my energy level picked up considerably just 4-5 days into the diet.
The guy also mentioned that severely restricting caloric intake seemed to increase longevity. Attached is an article supporting that claim somewhat. In any case, life is uncertain -- so eat dessert first ! <G>
Subject: Re: food and change (E.J.)
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:22:24 -0700
Shar wrote:
> Whatever type of eating that makes the body function at it's best, is the > one we should follow. This takes body awareness. And I am not speaking of > cravings and desires, that is where we run into trouble. > I concur with the above. In all my travels and years of living amongst different cultures never did I come across such a diet conscious people as those in North America - that includes Canada.
Obesity and it's opposite is often as a result of an erroneous "psychological" thinking; or - it is the result of a physiological (chemical/organic) dysfunction. Either can be addressed with correct treatment (diet included). Sometimes the treatment might even require surgery (in very extreme cases.)
The point of my comment here is that there is no "one fits all" treatment. Having said that, in the context of Mission Light, I would venture to say that the "best treatment" is for each person is to look at their self and observe why it is that they are "suffering" a healthy weight deficiency. It wouldn't surprise me if in many cases the finding is within the "conditioning" that has been the main focus of this forum; desires, dependence, addiction etc., etc.
Subject: Re: food and change (E.J.)
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:28:20 -0800
Hi Oren, Thanks for the info. As I said, I have trouble gaining weight, so none of these diets or information do me no good, other than watching fat intake. It appears that meat and eggs is the only way for me to include protein in my diet. I also find that I need allot of complex carbs. When one is restricted by food in any way, popular opinion falls by the way side.
Until I learn how to increase protein, without legumes and meat, I am stuck eating meat. Also in the restriction is grains,nuts, and most fruit. So that cancels out that source as well.
I have over the years come to believe that any food is good if taken in moderation. I may have a boring diet, but it sure beats not being able to leave the house for days on end and the related side effects. Now I feel as if I can have somewhat of a normal life in relation to going places without fear.
Whatever type of eating that makes the body function at it's best, is the one we should follow. This takes body awareness. And I am not speaking of cravings and desires, that is where we run into trouble.
The thing I have trouble with right now, more than ever, is low blood sugar. I haven't got this eating thing down to its peak yet. I am finding that I need to eat 5 times per day, not three. I also find that not eating carbs with protein, eliminates many side effects. One gets carbs and vegies, or protein and vegies, never all together.
Also am restricted to no coloured food, like orange cheddar etc. The whole diet thing is never easy for anyone.
Thats it.....
Subject: Re: food and change (E.J.)
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:49:36 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->For what it's worth -- I heard some guy on the radio ->being interviewed a few months ago about human longevity ->in relation to demographics. He looked at various ->segments of the population, focusing mainly on ->lifestyle, diet, and occupation. Interestingly enuf, ->vegetarians didn't fare so well in the lifespan spectrum ->-- living only to the age of 58 (where 74 is closer to ->the norm).
Thank you for your offering. Yes, there is much of this sort of data around, primarily research done in the U.S. and/or Canada and /or England. 99% of the vegetarians in the U.S., for example, just call themselves vegetarians because they do not eat red meat or eliminations such as that. It's fashionable. But they still eat all the rest of the junk. A Real vegetarian will not eat any animal product (meat, fish, poultry, whatever) or even products of an animal (eggs, milk, butter, cheese, and the like). Which eliminates anything of animal origin. Strict vegetarians will carry it a step further and will not use processed foods like white sugar or white rice or white bread. If it is not a preparation from it's raw state it is not eatable. Also they do not consume artificial flavors or colors or preservatives in foods. Sound limiting ? Brows through a Seventh Day Adventist grocery store and you will see how limiting it is {8->
To get an accurate appraisal of a vegetarian's longevity (or health or anything else) one would have to study True vegetarians, and the best place to do that is in the older Asian or East Indian cultures. And you will find that those people, even with the laborious life they live, live well into their 100s. It seems that as we progress in technology and food processing, even with the progress in medicines, our life span has gotten shorter. Progress ?
-> In any case, ->life is uncertain -- so eat dessert first ! <G>
Agreed. Problem is, my meal IS desert {8->
Subject: Re: food and change (E.J.)
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:58:59 -0800
Hi Gary,=20
you wrote:=20
The point of my comment here is that there is no "one fits all" = treatment. Having said that, in the context of Mission Light, I would = venture to say that the "best treatment" is for each person is to look = at their self and observe why it is that they are "suffering" a healthy = weight deficiency. It wouldn't surprise me if in many cases the finding = is within the "conditioning" that has been the main focus of this forum; = desires, dependence, addiction etc., etc.
Shar: I agree with this. If I could find a way to work through a food = allergy, and get "normal" I would. This allergy goes beyond food, it is = the reason I don't wear a watch, jewelery, etc. It also has allowed me = to work through eating anything that comes in a can, prepackaged, and = turned me into a fanatical label reader. I can not cook in stainless = steel, or eat anything prepared in the same. Which of course eliminates = eating out to a great extent.=20
Being as fresh vegies and fruit are the pits in the winter, and = expensive, the best luck I have right now is buying frozen. Which isn't = to bad as they are grade A or at least most brands are. And there are no = hidden additives that one can't read. Cauliflower a couple of weeks ago = averaged the price around $8 per pound. Where do we find local fresh = organic markets in the north? Answer..you don't.=20
The only way one can control their food, is to grow it themselves. = Anyone want to come north and do community living? It is the way of the = future and of the past, wouldn't you know it? lol=20
Happy eating .........
Subject: Re: ray
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:49:30 GMT
Greetings Rhonda, you wrote: ->ray wrote: -> "In the beginning" (so to speak) the new born is quite = ->non-dualistic ->and IN/AS the Moment, then as the accommodating world at large = ->graciously ->brainwashes the new born duality is born (the One is made Two), so then = ->we ->have to back-wash the brain-wash and get back to BEing that non-duality ->IN/AS the Moment *again* ("be as the little children"). Awakening is = ->in ->the Two BEing One. -> -> It's almost like a cruel joke, isn't it........i mean, why do we do = ->this to ourselves ?? ->why do we put ourselves in this position of having it all and then = ->losing it=20 ->and then trying to regain it again???? why oh why if we know better = ->before ->we reincarnate do we put ourselves in this cruel cruel position. = ->Sometimes it ->just seems like a nasty joke. And if we are all one.... then the joke = ->is on ourselves and=20 ->why the hell would we do that??? =20
First, Dear Friend, please do not send that HTML stuff -- it is next to unintelligible. A mess. And you know how difficult the archives can be. Anyway........
That is how it has been done for thousands of years, so that is why we do it. I would say that we really do not realize consciously that we are doing it. Definitely self-defeating. Ask your mother why she does certain things a certain way, and a lot of times she will tell you that it was the way her mother taught her how to do it. So we do not realize that we are doing anything that the person we are doing it to (our offspring) will one day regret. I do not feel that we would do that to our young purposely, it is how we are conditioned to do it. And the Vicious Cycle goes one.... and one..... and on.....
Many *believe* that we somehow *choose* the life we reincarnate into. Think about it, why would we put ourself in some Suffering life ? To teach ourself a lesson ? Are we Sadists ? No, it is all part of Karma. That is, the Forces that bind us to situations are the Forces that draw together opportunities to break those chains. It is the bringing together of *potential*, the potential of Balancing Forces or Calming Waters or taking the kinks out of our Awakening.
Yes, it would be a cruel joke if we knew that we were doing this. And even more so if we were able to pick and choose our next life. We are in any given incarnation because the very forces that we generated in past incarnations are drawing or recreating the same type situation for a better outcome of our particular part in that situation. That is, Karma is saying "let's try this again, and see if you can get it right this time". As far as brainwashing the little Gurus, we do not realize what we are doing until it is too late. Once we do realize that we messed up though, we should be Pointing this out to others so that perhaps we can break the chain-process. We can not Save the world, but we can Save ourself and BE that Salvation as an example to all who will take a look. And even if it seems that you are always talking to yourself even though another is there you are talking *at*, at least you did what had to be done. If they refuse to see it, shame on them -- if you do not tell it, shame on you.
Subject: just do it
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:19:46 -0800
:)
Subject: re: Karma
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:10:16 -0800
Morning E.J: You said this:
>No, it is all part of Karma. That is, the Forces that bind us to situations are the Forces that draw together opportunities to break those chains. It is the bringing together of *potential*, the potential of Balancing Forces or Calming Waters or taking the kinks out of our Awakening.<
Now it is fantanstic....This is why I do not bemoan my past or any of it....many patterns are now broken and new experiences coming about...much freedom....that I had not known to be possible......the bls are coming off, not only physically but mentally...its beautiful this freedom when conditionings are being sluffed like the snake sheds its skins...ah. I am just higher than a kite...and drunk on life.
Subject: Wow
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:53:13 -0800
>Direct Experiences hold more Reality and Truth than all the Wise words and Wise Scriptures and Wise Sages put together. <
Yep...reading instructions about driving a car is one thing but actually driving a car is much better.
Recieving advice, instructions, and how others quit smoking and lost weight is good, but also confusing cause everyone has different ideas....but actually doing it myself, experiencing it.....is the difference between crawling on the belly through a swamp and dancing on the mountain top....Ah....now I am looking down seeing all the chains and locks lying beneath my feet...and nothing is better than that million dollar moment!
Namaste, and yes we are all cut from the same bolt of cloth and so it is for each of us to discover that we really can save ourselves. :) Jacquie
Subject: karma sunnyside up
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:20:15 -0800
karma you put it on icecream lick it then drop it on the sidewalk slip on it giggle like the two yr. old you are oh...karma is spelled mama isn't it....no well almost. i lost my karma in the washing machine with the booties.
Subject: Re: ray
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:45:52 -0800
Good Morning Rhonda,
> First of all....sorry bout the HTML stuff....
I did that too, took it for granted this computer was set to no html, but alas, it weren't.....sigh
> > Many *believe* that we somehow *choose* the life we reincarnate into. > > Think about it, why would we put ourself in some Suffering life ? To > > teach ourself a lesson ? > > exactly what i was thinking
Me too. Why do I think that? Why else would we come back? I can't think that we were forced into being here by any other reason than our own choice. Arguement being..choice is an illusion..ha.. In the humor part of my brain, the thought arises that maybe we keep saying, okay, give me another shot, this time I won't get conditioned, I am above that now. Just to be taught that I am not. Life is a joke, it has to be, have you ever looked at the humor side of it? Why do we take things so seriously when we know we can end our suffering whenever we want to? Our ego's are a killjoy in our lives. Why do we allow the illusion of pain to control what we do or feel?
> > > Are we Sadists ? > > another passing thought...
And a good one if you ask me. Did you ask me???No? Oh well, I'll answer anyway.
> > No, it is all part of Karma.
Karma.....a debt we owe to ourselves, to be paid off by ourselves, when we are ready.......the question then becomes..when are we ready? When do we reach our gag limit?
> > That is, the Forces that bind us to situations are the Forces that draw > > together opportunities to break those chains.
Did we not set it up ourselves? The pebble in the pond thing? We have the choice to break the chains whenever we choose. Some use a hack saw, some a table knife, some a feather. A few might use a big set of side cutters and get it with one blow.
> > Yes, it would be a cruel joke if we knew that we were doing this. > > And even more so if we were able to pick and choose our next life.
It is a joke...Cruel as in good or bad, is within the eye of the beholder. In reflection of my life, I see many opportunities where I could have kicked ass on karma, and didn't. I can see some humor in each situation though. The ego's played some pretty good parts and they really do deserve an Emmy or Oscar.
> however....it still doesnt explain what i have > witnessed as my past. > In past incarnations i was wiser. How did i regress????
Time being an illusion, there is no past, no future no present.......all is happening right now..regression is tapping into a part of your whole......it's not the body or the people we have to be concerned with or carry as memory, but the lessons. We don't regress, we IS what IS. ....
We come back due to the circumstances we > laid out for ourselves but wouldn't it just be a whole lot simpler if we > REMEMBERED those circumstances??
What is to remember? Do you think you do not carry lessons learned with you right now? How or what you learned takes judgement. Just live, you are what you already know........
> geeeez > all i want to do is make people smile and make this world a bit easier to > bear....but it all gets so damn complicated...
If you want to make people happy and smile.....do it.. Just don't forget yourself.......forget complications...clear the mind to the moment, and there is nothing else but a smile....
They say we pass through the River of forgetfulness, another way of saying conditioned.....if we forget that easy, we can return just as easy..one step at a time, or leap over buildings in a single bound....
There is one thing I do strongly believe..be it a condition or not........a person has to learn to really be alone with themselves.......I figure at some point in our lives, we should shoot off into solitude for at least 6 months...No contact with others unless it's an emergency..We need to learn to be alone without being lonely......We need to connect with ourselves, and not to many allow themselves that gift. We, in some way, will experience a dark night of the soul..it could be many or it could be a major one. One can be alone anywhere, wherever, but the minute there is another ego around us, we respond to that ego, instead of our own.......Solitude.......a gift...an awesome gift we can only give ourselves.......
Bye for now
Subject: Re: ray
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:34:08 GMT
Greetings Rhonda, you wrote: ->First of all....sorry bout the HTML stuff....i always assume it is set the ->way i want it and it doesn't really show any difference from this end whilst ->i type...my sincere apologies everyone...not only for the HTML but also for ->the brain draining i am about to make you endure with my questions :)
Not a major discomfort Dear Friend, we would not be human if we were not always messing up {8-> And we would miss the fun of going back and fixing things. That was not an invitation, but rather to say NEXT TIME YOU GET SHOT {8->
->aha! so therein lies a 'belief" ! One that i took totally for granted!
Many of them we do take for granted. Habitual thinking and behavior. Many of the programs are run in the background, so we do not even realize that they are running. This is why we must take a good close look at all programs and be Mindful of what programs we let run.
->When you said before to ->take a 'belief' and analyze it i had a hard time finding one that i ->really,truly BELIEVED IN, but that is certainly one that i held true.
Do you believe that there is anything other than this very present Moment ? You must, other wise you would always BE this ever Present Moment. A belief is that which you have not Directly Experienced yourself, something that you are taking the word of another to be so. A conditioned notion, on the other hand, is a planted or self contrived idea or image or meaning that is also a belief but you *think* it is Fact. We generally know a bolded faced belief as some notion that we have not Directly Experienced, but we rationalize it's validity so we can treat it as a fact. Such as religious beliefs, heaven, hell, salvation, even god. These are quite overt and easily recognizable. But conditioned notions are the subtle not so noticeable ideas and images and meanings that control and manipulate the very way we think and behave, without us even realizing it.
->Telling me that i DO NOT pick and choose my next lifetime is an awesome ->revelation. Of course, ->i have always felt that Karma drew me into my existing predicaments but to ->take it a step farther... ->it draws me into everything....
Karma is not just a convenient notion to explain or rectify the reap what we sew parable, but rather quite inclusive. It boils down to the fact that *choices* are not part of the scheme. Choices are part of our conditioned notions, and are not found anywhere else. All simply IS AS it IS IN/AS Eternal Movement Unfolding IN/AS the Eternal Timeless Moment, this Moment right Here right NOW doing what must be done and BEing what must BE. A continuous flow that needs no direction nor a predisposition. It simply IS and does what must be done, Karma is such a Force.
->however....it still doesnt explain what i have ->witnessed as my past. ->In past incarnations i was wiser. How did i regress????
In each incarnation we are bombarded with conditioned notions that Veil our True Nature Awakening. In each incarnation we have to let go of those conditioned notions to continue on the Path of Awakening. So, in the preceding incarnation we could have let enough conditioned notions go to progress along the Path a ways -- we see this through regression or other means. So we say to ourself, "gee, I was quite Insightful then, I can't see past my nose now, where did I go wrong, or backwards". The fact of the matter is that with each incarnation we are issued a whole new set of baggage, that eventually we have to toss into the dumpster.
->always room for improvement ? :)
That is why we work on letting go of conditioned notions -- improvement.
->Just kidding. My ego would like to say that i had it right...once upon a ->time. And as a wee ->babe it would seem that we have it right...right off the bat. So why the ->forgetfullness? -> Why do we ->Know what we need to Know and then forget it all?
We forget because we are conditioned, and by being conditioned we can not remember. So we have to Work on Remembering, Self-Remembering, Remembering Self, Remembering True Nature, Zikr. Letting go of conditioned notions we start Remembering.
-> Im sorry if i sound like ->im beating a dead bush here.
Not really. It is dead in the sense that it does not matter, it is too late for it to matter. What matters is what we do about it, and do about it NOW. Spilled milk is spilled milk, instead of gripping about it clean it up. No one and nothing to blame as to why and how we became conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons, but WE are to blame if we do nothing about it.
->I understand what you are saying. We come back due to the circumstances we ->laid out for ourselves but wouldn't it just be a whole lot simpler if we ->REMEMBERED those circumstances??
You do, once you let go of the added baggage (conditioned notions) that you acquired thus far in this incarnation. By Remembering the True Nature that you ARE you Remember what you still had left to take care of last time.
->geeeez ->all i want to do is make people smile and make this world a bit easier to ->bear....but it all gets so damn complicated...
Do not complicate that which is actually quite simple. Remembering is a simple matter of letting go of the dearly beloved toxic conditioned notions -- toxic to your Awakening or Remembering. It is not complicated but it is difficult, for it is Painful. Painful in that you would be letting go that which you have become, that which you know (or rather believe you know), your security blankets, your self identity, your judgements, your desires, your likes and dislikes, yourself. Though in losing yourself you Discover or Remember yourSelf.
->ok then. I DO actually understand although i BELIEVE with all the amazing ->accomplishments the ->universe can muster it could at least muster REMEMBRANCE and a lack of ->conditioning if we have ->to go through it time and time again.
Oh the universe Remembers, it is conditioned humanity who forgets. Do not blame the universe for something you have done to yourself. YOU made the bed, now YOU sleep in it, so YOU have to remake the bed. "Drop The Stick", "Let It Go".
-> But if it can't then i understand ->what you are saying and here we go ->again.....remove the toxic conditioning and BE WHOLE. ->blah
As long as you *think* you "can't", you "can't". THAT is the first conditioned notion that you have to let go of. We must change "can't" to "am", not 'can' or 'will' but 'am doing it right now'.
->its hard....its no fun....its just like a computer that returns to html ->settings when your not ->BEing Aware. !
Aha, poor thing. But let me tell you a little secret: the first step is hard, then the next step is easier, and the next is easier yet, until you realize that it is all down hill. Another little secret is: taking the first step is no fun, but it gets funnier with every step. So you see, there is really nothing to fear but the fear itself {8->
Subject: Daily Meditation
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 06:54:55 GMT
Greetings Community,
Just some Thought For Food:
RAMESH S. BALSEKAR: "On the basis of individuality and freedom of choice the manifest universe will never yield its secret."
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of Society. If we're looking for the causes of our troubles, we should't test people for drugs; we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power." -- P.J. O'Rourke
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." -- Albert Einstein
Subject: Howdy
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:05:03 -0800
Happy Valitines Day Folks:
I miss you all today. I've been expermenting with cooking with Tofu and fried some in olive oil and tamari...ummmm....so good. I may not need to eat meat much after tasting vegetarian foods...:) well, hope you all have a good time today....I did eat a chocolate kiss but no more sweets than that. So anyway, I am not addicted to chocolate, only tapioca.
Subject: Re: Howdy
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 05:00:50 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->I miss you all today. I've been expermenting with cooking with Tofu and ->fried some in olive oil and tamari...ummmm....so good.
Sure..... we missed the cookies too..... thanks for letting us know AFTER you devoured them ALL. SURE ! THANKS !
<hop <hop <hop <hop <hop <hop <hop <hop <hop
hop>
Oh, by the way, there are three grades of olive oil you know. The best is the *Extra Extra Virgin* -- the first pressing. And try some Teriyaki sauce -- another good cooking oil {8->
->I may not need to ->eat meat much after tasting vegetarian foods...:)
You will not need any meat if you do some research and find out the various vitamins and minerals and other stuff that the body needs. Once you find out what the body requires, then look for different vegi foods where you can get those requirements.
->well, hope you all have a good time today....
And I for you too Dear Friend..... but it sounds like you have.
->I did eat a chocolate kiss ->but no more sweets than that.
Carob -- they have various flavors.
-> So anyway, I am not addicted to chocolate, ->only tapioca.
Chocolate flavored carob tastes better anyway. Perhaps not better than tapioca, but better than processed chocolate.
Subject: Another point to ponder
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 01:03:06 +0000
Greetings everyone,
I've been corresponding with a gal that teaches a class in re Eastern spiritual studies, meditation, yoga, etc. We were discussing "direct experience" vs "knowledge/logic", and she made this point...
"Also, consider this, knowledge will always have the last laugh over experience because experience may or may not be valid. ergo, every day in this beautiful place, we experience the rising and setting of the sun, yet knowledge tells us that the sun does not rise and set. There are many examples but i think you catch my drift."
Any comments?
Subject: Re: Howdy olive oil
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:53:44 +0100
Ha ha ha E.J. So you are hoppin' regurlarly again, dear frog, you loose weight too:)? Thank you for pointing in the direction of the proper olive oil, I stand and stare and read it for ages, but never quite new which one to pick, so Extra extra Vierge it is, many thanx
Subject: Re: the tofu diet
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:56:23 +0100
Tofu for dummies?, I'm interested here:). My hubby gorgeous, and I are so disappointed with all these meat problems etc going on, it's time for me to stop the meat thing!
Subject: Re: Howdy olive oil
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:36:05 -0700
Hi Shar! I think a cook-book is an excellent idea. Anyone can contribute, but I warn you I am one of those (good) cooks that doesn't measure .... <G>
Subject: Re: Howdy
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:15:00 -0800
You are so funny E.J., You know that you are the first with the hand in the cookie jar...:) well almost, I got up at 4:00a.m. this morning and had nothing but juice...so far.
Subject: Re: the tofu diet
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:00:20 -0800
Well...now is the pogo stick that E.J. is hopping on called the carrot stick? Now join the crazys wombat. I care less about skinny and bathing suits...but just think that change is fun! jac-a-quacky
Subject: Re: Howdy
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:49:42 +0100
Howdy sweet Valentine Jacquie:) and others if they care for it.
I only caught up with you all again, late last night. prolific writers :-) you bunch - you might feel you are alone from time to time sweetness:) but if you don't read here for even a short while, there's plenty to read when you get back again!
I saw Sister Shar had joined the party again too :) I was reading with interest how even here, diets seem to enter into the game. Ha, ha I used to say I'm fat and forty, but that was almost 14 years ago now, now I just say I'm chubby <twinkle> but I have also been thinking okay let's do some slimmin' here. I think it's because all these woman's mag's come naggin' every year around this time, coz they're short on material and always after Xmas, they think all women need to slim- to make sure we start slimmin' like crazy, they start showin' these chicks in their lovely wee bathin' suits and hurrah, we're off again to diet pills. more exercise or whatever.
I fooled 'em for a couple of years now, I refuse to bite. I go to a clothing store and ask why they don't have larger sizes for the larger people, I always remind them in a friendly way that there are more folks on earth without that perfect dial figure than there are with them.
Just last week I saw a really good ad .... chuckle... it said, okay do you know there are 8 models out there, who get paid for looking like they do and so many ??? billion women who don't look like that ha ha ha, made my day that did.
But I have to agree with E.J. here and say, yes it is definitely *more* healthy *not* to have to traipse around with all the extra weight, so GIRLS I am PROUD of you, for having the spirit to get back into loosing some of the extra bits of you ;-)
Subject: the tofu diet
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:08:07 -0800
Hi Jacquie, you wrote: > I miss you all today. I've been expermenting with cooking with Tofu and > fried some in olive oil and tamari...ummmm....so good. I may not need to > eat meat much after tasting vegetarian foods
Ah so......Tofu..Good stuff. I like the firm marinated in ginger, soya sause,garlic then fried until the outside is crisp. The soft is good for making any soup into a cream soup. or add cheese and make a cheese sause. The desert one makes a good cheese cake.
The ground round stuff can be used in place of hamburger in any recipe. It makes a mean meat loaf, but needs a sause on top before cooking or it gets to dry.
Oh, well, maybe after I get my body in check, then I can incorporate it back into my diet again, in small quanties.
Another diet hint, is to use a low fat yogurt in place of cream cheese. Just drain overnight in a cheese cloth. For a sour cream replacement, after draining, add a touch of lemon juice. Just a touch, mind you. If by accident you add to much, it makes a good mayo if you add a touch of sugar to cut the bite.
How can you tell I cook by touch and not in measurements.lol..yikes.
EJ, ...carob sucks....not even close to choc, not even an illusion of choc. and it leaves an awful after taste...... Cocoa isn't processed, it ground, thats why it is so expensive now. It's pure and one make wonderful goodies with it. But it's on my list of no no's now. Full of nickel. sigh......
Subject: Re: Another point to ponder
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:11:34 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->I've been corresponding with a gal that teaches a class ->in re Eastern spiritual studies, meditation, yoga, etc. ->We were discussing "direct experience" vs ->"knowledge/logic", and she made this point... -> ->"Also, consider this, knowledge will always have the ->last laugh over experience because experience may or may ->not be valid. ergo, every day in this beautiful place, ->we experience the rising and setting of the sun, yet ->knowledge tells us that the sun does not rise and set. ->There are many examples but i think you catch my drift."
Sleeping "we experience the rising and setting of the sun", Awakening we experience the sunrise and the sunset and the sun. As in meditation and in yoga, we do not experience the practice of meditation or yoga but rather the state of BEing that IS meditation and yoga. When there is a separation between the one who experiences and that which is experienced, there is more of a projection than an actual Direct Experience. As the term "Direct Experience" implies, the experiencer IS the experience.
Oh yes, we can and most do intellectualize everything. All that is intellectualized has it's origin in the mind, and so can not be Truly Directly Experienced, so indeed the Grand Trickster will have the last laugh (so to speak). As he always does when we intellectualize, which is the down side to knowledge. Ah, but when we leave the intellect out of the experience and Directly Experience Whatever-IS precisely AS it IS at he very Present Moment that it IS, the Grand Trickster is left out in the frigid cold. That is, no experiencer and no intellect and no knowledge, just the Direct Experience IN/AS the Moment. So it is the Grand Trickster, the intellect, the known, the conditioned programmed thinking, that degenerates the Moment that is Directly Experienced to mere data.
Yet, this is the way of *education*, the way of *educators*, the way of Kali Yuga. But have Heart Dear Friend, things will get worse before they get better {8->
Subject: Re: Howdy olive oil
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:48:35 -0800
Hi Wombat, you wrote: > Thank you for pointing in the direction of the proper olive oil, I stand and > stare and read it for ages, but never quite new which one to pick, so Extra > extra Vierge it is, many thanx
One of my favorite topics, food......The virgin olive oil is good. Don't fry in it. It loses it's properties when heated to a fry temp. or boiling temp. Just add it right before serving. When I cook meatless, I add a couple of tbsp just before serving. It satisfies that craving for fat and makes anything a comfort food. And it ain't that bad in mashed potatoes instead of butter either, in small doses. Although it's not quite as good, use a light for salads. I also found an olive canola mix that I like for high heat. When making oven fries, shake the potatoes in olive oil before sticking them in the oven...crunchy outsides, soft insides, and good for you to boot. Low fat is a bonus.
And EJ, Gary and whom ever, maybe a Light-Mission cook book would be a great idea. Proceeds to the Retreat Center. If anyone knows of a reasonable way to publish and print it. One never knows......It would be something we could sell on line, in soft cover, as an e-book, and person to person if we all had a few. It seems like there is no such thing as too many cookbooks.
Just an idea..What cha say??? Feedback.?? I would send it to the Retreat list but don't have the address on this computer. Please forward as I know we have a helper on there that isn't on this forum.
Thanks again.
Subject: Re: the tofu diet
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:41:16 -0800
Thanks Sharlene: Hey I got an idea for a best seller....cooking with Tofu for Dummies and thankyou dear one for the ideas...i am putting it into the file.
Subject: Re: Another point to ponder
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:35:38 +0000
Greetings EJ,
You answered...
"Oh yes, we can and most do intellectualize everything. All that is intellectualized has it's origin in the mind, and so can not be Truly Directly Experienced, so indeed the Grand Trickster will have the last laugh (so to speak). As he always does when we intellectualize, which is the down side to knowledge."
I think we are pretty much on the same page here -- this was my response to her...
At first glance I was tempted to agree with this -- but isn't there something wrong here? It's not the experience that is flawed -- it's the mind's interpret- ation of the experience that's invalid. And thinking further -- it really wasn't a single experience you're referring to (the rising and setting), but rather a long string of experiences. We observe the sun at position A -- then position B -- then position C, etc... We see what we see -- we see "what is". But it isn't until our mind tries to group all these individual experiences together into one tidy package and hang a label on it (rising/falling) that things become flawed. Are you toying with me?:) But I do see something here. Even direct experience is to be held suspect when converted to "knowledge".
I think she just likes to play with my brain.
grace and love...oren
Subject: Re: Another point to ponder
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:58:58 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->I think she just likes to play with my brain.
Perhaps. I hope so {8-> Not because I would like to see people play with your brain (if you had one), but rather because if she is serious and *believes* what she says, her students are poor indeed. But as I said, such thoughts as she offered are a *sign of our times* so it would not surprise me if she was one of the Grand Trickster's proponents and advocates. My Compassion goes out to her that she may start Waking-Up. But then, perhaps that is why you and her are writing each other -- she needs your Help {8->
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:49:24 -0800
Thanks for the Great Laugh Sharlene....now how about recycling E.J.....can't you just see it... Frog Jelly Bellies and Carrot Pogo Sticks...hmmm....now pass the tofu cheese dip please.
Subject: Re: Mail
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:14:37 -0700
Hi Shar ~
I got it twice, but that's OK, it happens!
Thanks for sharing your precious moments with your grand kids. All you say is so true - of how twisted some of humanity's thinking is. Perhaps that is the problem, they/we "think" too much. Not only that, but we have to have a reason for everything (to fit our way of conditioned thinking). When that doesn't happen, we dissect and analyze the experience to death but not before we've spent all that wasted energy to come up with the reason that doesn't even make sense, but "fits" the way of our conditioned thinking.
Is it any wonder that so many (of humanity) are stressed to beyond the limit of what the human body can manage and so many perish from the related ills that befall them, cancer being one of them.
As it has been mentioned here many times before - 'we are what we think we are.' It is a constant undertaking to be aware of my own thought, as I have caught myself on various (and too often) occasions falling back into the 'Auto Run' mode. Maybe that's why I feel sleepy so much lately <G>
Subject: Morning thoughts
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 04:32:23 -0800
Hi all,
I am experiencing a week of really living in the moment. I have the pleasure of babysitting my grandbabies while Mom takes a well earned few days off.
The babies being 4 and 1 years old. Plus there are 2 new puppies to tend to. So you can imagine why it's totally in the moment. I am being constantly entertained and taught.
I am watching first hand how conditioning gets handed down from one to another without awareness of it's existance. It has also been made to sink in farther, that actions do speak louder than words. Kids can ignore what you say, but they definately do what you do.
They learn the loudest wheel gets the grease so temperments are born. If you yell, Mom or Dad come running. Fear doesn't exist, there is no time for fear in the busyness of doing. Fear comes from the parents and others in the authority role. In the age gap, that learning becomes obvious. And the older teaches the younger.
There is nothing funnier than watching a day of a 1 year old. They get so mad when they can't do what they want to do. Like eat a bath oil bead. And aren't facecloths for chewing, no matter how dirty they are? And isn't anything that fits in the mouth fair game as foodstuff? Which can be pretty scarey with 2 puppies running free. The age where time means nothing, when tears to laughter is a smile away, or a kiss fixes everything.
But how they learn from observing...does that ever draw an awareness of what you teach by doing...The age of copycat.....And it doesn't stop there, we continuely learn by watching others. We really have to be aware of our own actions or we observe our little clones doing what we don't like about ourselves. We get angry when they do what we do, we are the ones that need to be aware of what we do. Conditioning breeds contemp? I think thats the word I want. But don't hold me to it.
I have another line of thought mixed in with one but a new post is called for.
Subject: Part 2
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 05:40:39 -0800
I watch my 4 year old grand daughter and how she spends her day. She is alone most of the time as they live ten miles out of town and neighbours with small children are not handy and playschool is only 2 days per week.
It's amazing how children can watch the same movie over and over and still be surprized at the ending...Or scared in the right places. And yet, they know the movie and what happens already. They laugh at the same funny, time and time again. Life in the moment. The things we miss as adults..How many will watch the same movie twice or ten times? Not 2 many. And yet, the first watching only allows a brief encounter, the 2nd watching allows you to pick up more of the story. I had to watch "The Sixth Sense" twice, to catch the subtleties or clues to what was really happening. You get so wrapped up in the story that one fails to observe what is. The second time around you are detached so observing is what is. It's amazing, brings up the old saying, Don't believe the things you hear, and only half of what you see.
Anyway, lost my train there for a moment. I really am not impressed with the way Walt Disney movies are written or presented. Sure they are filled with wonderful creatures and colourful backgrounds, and great effects, and yet, if I had a choice, Walt Disney would not exist as he does today.
Each one of his movies fill the kids with lies, fantasy, and total conditioning. And it gets worse with everytime they watch. The under lying teaching is totally the worst conditioning I have observed. Other than parents and family, but it's Disney the kids have more contact with I think.
They internalize everything they see,hear and react to. They learn fear, they learn conditioned love,they learn evil. My granddaughter won't eat an apple. Cute! Not!
I always get an arguement when I say to someone that Walt Disney is a male chauvinist. It's always the girls in trouble, and its always the male hero. It's rare the main female isn't shown as being stupid enough to get into some type of situation that the hero has to come with brutal strength to save her, slay the dragon, and carry her off to never never land.
It,s the same in the animal ones, it's always the male that is the smartest, the bravest and the hero. To me, it's teaching that females are stupid, weak, and in need of someone to save us. We learn that we need to fit in with others way's of thinking, we learn to hide who we are to avoid punishment or scorn. It's a crock of shit, to put it mildly. And how much time does Walt Disney spend babysitting the kids just to keep them quiet? My God, we may know it's fantasy, but young children do not.
How many TV shows teach our children? Everyone they watch....We don't allow them to see porno movies or naked people, but we allow them to see good verus evil, killing movies, murder, gang wars and Walt Disney. They took Bugs Bunny off the air because it is violent, and yet video games and movies are okay? Go figure.
Get the kids away from the TV set. Duke Nukem and the like....We are living in a violent world, teaching violence every day, or hero's wouldn't exist....The world doesn't need hero's.
We teach that naked people magazines are restricted to the young, oh my God, heaven forbid we might see a breast or a penis, when it's okay to shoot off anothers head with a lazer gun. Where are we in our heads anyway? We teach war is okay because it's for God, the flag and apple pie......But we can't look at a naked baby without being thought of as sick?
We are a sick society, our priorities suck.
And thats my ramble for today
Subject: Re: Part 2
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:00:12 GMT
Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->We teach that naked people magazines are restricted to the young, oh my God, ->heaven forbid we might see a breast or a penis, when it's okay to shoot off ->anothers head with a lazer gun. Where are we in our heads anyway? We teach ->war is okay because it's for God, the flag and apple pie......But we can't ->look at a naked baby without being thought of as sick? -> ->We are a sick society, our priorities suck.
Light Mission is in Cyber-Space now, so perhaps more people will Realize that sooner than it took us {8->
->And thats my ramble for today
Thank you !
Subject: Re: Part 2
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:55:20 +0100
Dear Shar, Those were two magnificent posts, thank you for them, ain't it the truth though? !! I make the same remarks around me here too, but hardly a ripple, people tend to look at you like you were an oddball, well b..... 'em ;-)
Subject: Re: Another point to ponder
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:48:43 +0100
Hi Oren:) As I was reading your post a thought occurred to me, what if you are blind?? You don't *see* the sun, yet you do experience the sun:). My Father was extremely colour-blind, saw no colours at all he said. The funny thing was though, that though he couldn't *see* red, he could *feel* the red colour, now that's something more to ponder on eh? What say you:)? Kindest regards,
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:33:28 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Thanks for the Great Laugh Sharlene....now how about recycling ->E.J.....can't you just see it...
I could not get on the recyclable list. Lack of mind, so there is only Nothing to recycle. They said it would not be cost effective to recycle Nothing. One of the hazards of Waking-Up, not even the re-cyclers want to have anything to do with you. Oh well, their loss {8->
Subject: Re: Morning thoughts
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:49:15 GMT
Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->I am watching first hand how conditioning gets handed down from one to ->another without awareness of it's existance. It has also been made to sink ->in farther, that actions do speak louder than words. Kids can ignore what ->you say, but they definately do what you do. -> ->They learn the loudest wheel gets the grease so temperments are born. If you ->yell, Mom or Dad come running. Fear doesn't exist, there is no time for fear ->in the busyness of doing. Fear comes from the parents and others in the ->authority role. In the age gap, that learning becomes obvious. And the older ->teaches the younger. -> ->There is nothing funnier than watching a day of a 1 year old. They get so ->mad when they can't do what they want to do. Like eat a bath oil bead. And ->aren't facecloths for chewing, no matter how dirty they are? And isn't ->anything that fits in the mouth fair game as foodstuff? Which can be pretty ->scarey with 2 puppies running free. The age where time means nothing, when ->tears to laughter is a smile away, or a kiss fixes everything. -> ->But how they learn from observing...does that ever draw an awareness of what ->you teach by doing...The age of copycat.....And it doesn't stop there, we ->continuely learn by watching others. We really have to be aware of our own ->actions or we observe our little clones doing what we don't like about ->ourselves. We get angry when they do what we do, we are the ones that need ->to be aware of what we do. Conditioning breeds contemp? ->I think thats the word I want. But don't hold me to it.
Worth quoting nearly the whole offering. A profound observation. One that really should be taken note of by a lot more people. And once such Insights are Realized/Recognized then we have to get the parents to Realize/Recognize it too. For it is nice *after the fact* for us to Realize such Insights, but since it may be a bit late to take corrective steps with our own toddlers we can at lease start getting the chain cut by Educating the parents of our grand-toddlers. No ?
Subject: Re: Another point to ponder
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 00:03:39 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->"Not because I would like to see people play with your ->brain (if you had one),..." -> ->ROTFLMAO !!! -> ->Now if that were written on ANY other message board by ->ANYONE else, a fella might tend to feel a little ->insulted !!! <G>
*Deep Bow* Thank you for taking it for the humor it was intended. It was just too appropriate a place to add the comment. I had such the chuckle in contemplating adding it, that I hoped you would take it as lightly as I offered it. You have been here for some time now, putting up with and tolerating my madness, so I considered us Friends enough for me to make a little joke. As you have no doubt noted, I do it with Sharlene and Jacquie all the time. Awakening is the ONLY serious aspect of Life, all else we best find some humor in or it will bury us. I am glad you got the laugh that I hoped you would get. Glad you are with us Wonderful Friend.
Subject: Where's Vinnie ?!!!
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 00:46:15 +0000
Anybody heard from Vinnie lately? Vinnie, are you lurking in the cyber-shadows?!!!
oren
Subject: Re: Another point to ponder
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 00:43:47 +0000
Greetings EJ,
you wrote...
"I had such the chuckle in contemplating adding it,..."
Comtemplate? -- you almost HAD to -- it's what you call a "no brainer" !!! <G>
grace and love......oren
Subject: Re: Another point to ponder
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 01:00:29 +0000
greetings wombat,
you wrote...
"that though he couldn't *see* red, he could *feel* the red colour,..."
I would suppose that it's possible. Ever have your backed turned to someone, yet could "feel" them looking at you?!!!
grace and love......oren
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 02:04:40 GMT
Greetings Gary, you wrote: ->> Nah! With all this talk on diet, what use is a frog without legs - the only savory part ... MMmmm.
Aha..... as suspected..... only interested in my legs..... typical chauvinists. I guess it is time I just BE the Great Pond and let you sense oriented conceptual entities Suffer in this phenomenal Illusion because you can no longer Awe at the Jump of a Legless Frog.
<hop <hop <hop <hop <hop <hop <hop <hop <hop
hop> hop>
Oh..... one more thing..... Gary and Sharlene and Oren and all Lurkers out there in the Community..... is this Oasis not a Wonderful Loving place to be {8-> I have yet to find better neighbors anywhere in Cyber-Space, so please get out and Share with the rest of the Community -- our bark is worse than our bite {8->
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:47:14 -0800
Jacquie wrote: now how about recycling > ->E.J.....can't you just see it...
Now, the things that come to mind.......lol.
> > I could not get on the recyclable list. Lack of mind, so there is > only Nothing to recycle. Oh well, their loss {8
Careful, we may pull strings and get you sent to Canada anyway, hmmmm, as what, I wonder...?? We have enough frogs...but none of them are totally legless...yet, What do you think Gary and Rhonda? Could we use a legless wonder up here?
Subject: Re: Part 2
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:56:24 -0800
Hi Oren, you offered,, > 1. A young Canadian man from Newfoundland, searching for > a way of getting drunk cheaply,
Sad but true.... Strange things do happen when we least expect it, and some of the ways that people leave their bodies are amazing. There is nothing more strange than facts...It would be hard to believe someone could make that stuff up
Peace'
Subject: Re: Where's Vinnie ?!!!
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:13:46 -0600
Hi Oren, EJ, Shar and all;
Oren, you asked: "> Anybody heard from Vinnie lately? Vinnie, are you > lurking in the cyber-shadows?!!!"
I am here and there and everywhere.
Been nursing two sick kids with the flu/tonsilitis the past 3 or 4 weeks. It seems one gets well then the other gets sick. Then to the doctor, then doses of the pink stuff. The pink stuff is Berry flavored last time and so they wanted to take it, this time it is banana and it is yucky.
I am sifting through a mountain of email, since I have not been on line much at all and am down to the last five or six hundred.
I just read about the cook book idea, what a great thought. Being a good little italian kid, I can cooka reala gooda (said with broken english chicago italian accent). I invented a veggie eggplant lasagna that is, well, real good. Jacqiue's tofu adventures sounded fun, I do all sorts of interesting and tasty things with tofu. Made a Thai peanut sause with tofu and veggies the other night.
My six year old never ceases to amaze me. The other night he came up and told me he could make the world disappear! I asked him how and he says "it's easy, you just shut your eyes"!, and proceeded to do so. "See", he says, "the world is gone". I told him he should be happy, some people spend entire lifetimes in monastaries to learn such profound teaching but I think the humor was lost on him.
Well, off to bed I go. Tomorrow I am going to attempt to install an upgrade processor for my old dinosaur 133 pentium. I got a 233 AMD-k6 MMX processor thingy to replace the other one. This should be quite the adventure, perhaps I should find my Indiana Jones hat for this one!
Take gentle care! Eat yummy stuff
Subject: Re: Part 2
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:25:47 -0600
Hi Shar and all,
you wrote: > It's amazing how children can watch the same movie over and over and still > be surprized at the ending...Or scared in the right places. And yet, they > know the movie and what happens already. They laugh at the same funny, time > and time again. Life in the moment. The things we miss as adults..How many > will watch the same movie twice or ten times? Not 2 many. And yet, the first > watching only allows a brief encounter, the 2nd watching allows you to pick > up more of the story. I had to watch "The Sixth Sense" twice, to catch the > subtleties or clues to what was really happening. You get so wrapped up in > the story that one fails to observe what is. The second time around you are > detached so observing is what is. It's amazing, brings up the old saying, > Don't believe the things you hear, and only half of what you see.
I read this and had to laugh heartily. My six year old has watched the thomas the tank engine tapes so many times that not only do I know all the dialogue, I can do the absolute perfect imitation of Ringo Star as Mr.Conductor.
My two year old discovered Star Wars:The Phantom Menace about 6 months ago. In that span of time he has worn out two copies of the video tape. I would guess he has seen it 500+times. He likes the other Star Wars Movies as well. The funniest thing was one day he got a foam tube (that goes on pipes for insulation ) from the garage, comes up to me with his two year old self, holds his fingers over his mouth and makes a heavy breathing sound and says in his best Darth Vader Voice, "your powers are weak, old man" (a line from the first Star Wars Movie). He now will get the star wars music CD that someone bought him, put it in the player, place a blanket on his shoulders, get the foam light saber and say he is Anakin. He calls me "Obi Wan DAD-nobi". I then get to say really cool stuff from the movie like, "concentrate on the moment".
Well, take care!
Subject: Re: Mail
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:26:58 -0800
Hi Gary,
> As it has been mentioned here many times before - 'we are what we think > we are.' It is a constant undertaking to be aware of my own thought, as > I have caught myself on various (and too often) occasions falling back > into the 'Auto Run' mode. Maybe that's why I feel sleepy so much
Well, if you are like me at all, after those stupid flu's, I find myself short of physical energy. The Doc says it can effect you for up to 6 weeks after. People I know are just getting it now. Seems it isn't going to bypass anyone.
Spring is around the corner, For 3 nights in a row, I saw the ring around the moon, that means weather change in 3 weeks. That 3rd week is almost here. It's so cold right now I can't even let the kids play outside.
Oh well, that's winter in the interior.....
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:57:47 -0800
EJ wrote:
I have yet to find better neighbors anywhere in Cyber-Space, > so please get out and Share with the rest of the Community -- our bark is > worse than our bite
Now we have a legless frog with a bark, that is going to turn into a pond, and he calls us illusionary???Hmmmmm, Is it any wonder that we have padded cells for the members of this community? And then we have Gary who sits and waits for more frogs to lose their legs so he can eat them.....more hmmm's.....and it appears that Oren has no mind so he will just send Gary his legs without thinking about it. Jacquie is off somewhere down the yellow brick road clicking her heels together saying, take me to the pond, now!
I just dunno,
Subject: Re: Part 2
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 06:10:09 -0800
Vinny: I then get to say really cool stuff from the movie like, > "concentrate on the moment".
Sounds like fun. I get to play Queen, Reanna wants to be a Princess, she has her bow down quite well. I love it. Then we have tea, she serves. Thats why she doesn't want to be Queen, the Queen just has to sit, do nothing, and say thank you for the tea. And for her that would be no fun.
I got her one of those little girl slips that has a fullskirt for underneath fancy dresses, only for her, she sees no need to cover it. Gets real mad because we won't let her wear it to town.
In that slip she dances the dance of the Gods. The music is in her head as she twirls around on tip toes. Then she runs into the bedroom and comes out as superman saving her sister from evil.
A day in the life......
Subject: nothing
From: Marion Phillips <phillipsmp@home.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 08:37:54 -0800
OK, I'm going to step out of the lurking mode, I'm going on the 'premise' that the only stupid question is the one not asked. I may get shot down in flames but here goes.
I cannot see beyond , where I am at right now. What is it, that I AM, in an 'awake' state? Do I not 'do' and 'be' what/who I am in any given moment?
I find it all very confusing, am I suppose to be something different than I am right now? It seems the questioning of myself keeps me stuck, when I am in the state of 'wondering' "of how I might 'be' in an awakened state".
Yes, I know....when I'm IN a state of wondering, and questioning, I'm not IN the 'awakened' state.
Sure I can be told that 'if I am not in an 'awakened' state that I am 'sleeping'. What good is it to me, to be told this?
Does one 'know' any more in an 'awakened' state? If so, exactly what does one know? That one knows nothing? This tells me 'nothing' too.
Maybe I'm too practical. How does 'knowing nothing' help me in my day to day living? How does this help me make decisions about living? Yes, I'm sure I will be told 'there are no decisions to make' and this feels to me like a dog chasing it's tale.
If indeed, there is 'nothing' to know, then it matters not what I do or where I do it. Then why does it feel like it matters? Ahh, yes, 'conditioning'. The conditioning of the 'ties that bind me'. Bind me to other people, people I care about, whom I see, in their 'nothingness of life' still suffering. Awakened? Awakened to what...nothingness.
Nothing matters? I feel nothing? I do nothing? I am nothing? There IS nothing? This is how I have felt after being 'brow beaten', berated, criticized and condemned. Ahh yes, the 'conditioned' state.
So when there 'is nothing', I am nothing, ....what is the point, why am I here, why are any of us here? I am really trying to understand this whole thing of nothingness. How am I 'awakened' in nothingness?
When there IS nothing, how is it that there IS pain, sorrow, strife and suffering as well as joy, laughter and love? Ahh, these are all illusions.
uhu, yup...WHAT IS, IS. So how are these things 'nothing'?
So when 'all' is nothing, there is no 'awakening' and no 'sleeping'?
When 'all' is nothing then there is nothing to be done about it? When all is nothing, how is it that there is toxic conditioned thinking and behavior? When all is nothing, what is control and manipulation? When all is nothing, what is delusion and struggle?
Today's "Ray" says "For IN Awakening we Realize that there is no other choice but to discard the Veils that hide our Divine Awakening from it's Unfolding."
When all is nothing, what is choice, what is the veil, what is divine awakening? Illusion too? If not illusion, then who/what/where/why/when?
OK, I'll go away now, continuing to chase my tail in a state of craziness, which of course is illusion, therefore nothing.
I'll bet you are all laughing, and that's great...at least that's 'something'.
Subject: au natural
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:55:50 -0800
>And sometimes we have to be told over and over again the same things before we *get it*. <
yep....reiteration...like raindrops keep falling on my head...oops snowdrops actually. now today it is sundrops.
anyone for popcorn au natural...jacquie
p.s....welcome marion....enjoy the banquet of this moment before you...Awe now, stretch out and let it be au natural...
Subject: Re: Part 2
From: Marion Phillips <phillipsmp@home.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:06:49 -0800
In the connection to send off my message, of course the new messages came in. As I read Shar's message of the 'cool' stuff she gets to do with her grand babies, I ask....this is nothing?
I can feel her joy & laughter, her love for these two little people, I can feel the love she has for herself in the enjoyment. This is nothing?
When I hear that WHAT IS...IS and then, ALL IS NOTHING. How does this fit?
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:03:18 -0600
Shar wrote:
> Now we have a legless frog with a bark, that is going to > turn into a pond, and he calls us illusionary???Hmmmmm, > Is it any wonder that we have padded cells for the members of this > community?
You get padding! Hmmmm, must know someone.
you also wrote: And then we have Gary who sits and waits for more frogs to lose > their legs so he can eat them.....more hmmm's.....
Hmmmm I would eat them too but I am a one of those veggie people. I would share the veggies with the frog though, but I am not sure how he could eat them cause he has no legs.
>and it appears that Oren > has no mind so he will just send Gary his legs without thinking about it. > Jacquie is off somewhere down the yellow brick road clicking her heels > together saying, take me to the pond, now!
Maybe we should join her? A refreshing swim?
Subject: Re: Part 2
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:29:37 GMT
Greetings Marion, you wrote: ->In the connection to send off my message, of course the new messages came ->in. ->As I read Shar's message of the 'cool' stuff she gets to do with her grand ->babies, I ask....this is nothing?
Yes. Sharlene has let go of the conditioned notion that most would project into/onto the situation with the toddlers. She is Open and Observing the Teachings that the little Gurus are offering. They are IN/AS the Present Moment, they are not attached to this or that, they think and respond IN/AS the Present Moment unfolds itself anew. Whatever the Moment IS, they are IN/AS it. So they can jump from one thing to the other without missing a step -- one minute singing and dancing and the next being a monster. One minute crying and the next laughing. Has it not been said, "be as little children" ? You believed that story about watching her grand kids ? That is just an excuse, she is actually in Satsangh Studying with a few most Profound Teachers (Gurus).
Remember, Nothing is nothing left to project into/onto the Direct Experience of What-IS. And for Sharlene right NOW, the Satsangh IS.
->I can feel her joy & laughter, her love for these two little people, I can ->feel the love she has for herself in the enjoyment. This is nothing?
Of course ! Would you not BE joy and laughter and love if you were with the most Enlightened Gurus in the world ? Obviously Sharlene is. In repeating, Nothingness is nothing to project into/onto the Direct Open Honest Experience of being shown some very important Insights needed in our Awakening.
->When I hear that WHAT IS...IS and then, ALL IS NOTHING. How does this fit?
*Roaring Laughter* What else could What-IS be other than What-IS, All IS simply what it IS -- with Nothing (no conditioned notions) projected into/onto whatever What-IS IS.
Subject: Re: nothing
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:13:52 -0700
Hi Marion! Thank you for coming out into the Light from the "lurking" mode. And, especially thank you for sharing your confused thoughts ~ in this you are definitely not alone. We ALL go through this stage, BUT, what is important is that you are asking the questions for clarification. THIS in itself is the first step IN THE AWAKENING ... which IS an ongoing process from living a life (usually) miserable due to unhealthy "conditioning" as opposed to living a life as you/the big "I".
What we are discussing here and learning is spiritual psychology to put it plainly and simply. Please do not get caught up in the WORDS, but look at the message the words are attempting to convey, This is not always easy for in this "process" the "language" with all its distortion, and with bastardized words is not always the best or expedient a vehicle.
I must stop here as I have to go on an errand, but I will post again on this and help to untangle some of the confusion you are experiencing, which I sense is in the "words". Bear with us, and I am confident that you will come to understand.
Until later ....
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:36:37 -0800
tee hee Sharlene...now who cares about ponds, legless frogs and yellow roads...its those special mushrms that grow by the side of the road near the golden pond of the universe.
Subject: Re: nothing
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:58:04 -0700
Hi Marion! It is interesting that you started your posting with a "thinking" as you had (below):
> I may get shot down in > flames but here goes. >
Interesting as well is that the conclusion of your posting also ended with an assumption (below):
> I'll bet you are all laughing, and that's great...at least that's > 'something'. > Marion >
A simple question - Why?
Subject: Re: Part 2
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:49:36 +0000
Greetings Marion,
First, let me say that I don't think your question(s) are stupid -- actually, it's probably the most profound set of questions put to this board in quite some time. What will undoubtedly be "stupid" is everyone's reply -- especially mine. But hopefully by the end of this message, you'll see why.
Essentially, you seem to be asking..."how I might 'be' in an awakened state"...and if it really is "nothing" then, of what real importance is it, anyway?
So first, let me try and sum up all your questions into one tidy package -- into something that I can at least pretend to deal with. I think what you are essentially asking is...
"What is awakening/enlightenment? And if it really is 'nothing' -- then why even bother?"
Is that fair enuf?
So in an attempt to answer this, let's set up an imaginary situation...
Let's suppose that you are a fabulously perfect, ultra- smart, totally wonderful person that owns/operates a small company called "Life, Inc." And you know the company from the ground up because it's YOUR company -- and YOU built it. And I say small because, well, it is a small company -- at least employee-wise -- because you are not only the sole proprietor, but also the one-and- only employee.
And life is good, because you are such a great CEO of your little company that you can run it blind-folded -- TOTALLY WITHOUT EFFORT.
But one day -- and for some unexplained reason -- you decide to hire yourself an "assistant". Perhaps you had to deal with something you didn't enjoy. So you decided to hire somebody who can tend to "those nasty little details" of Life, Inc., and free YOU up for other stuff. So you run an ad in some cosmic newsaper for an "executive assistant".
The bad news is, only one person shows up to apply for the job -- someone named "Mindy". But the good news is, "Mindy" is VERY competent and bright -- and loyal to a fault --and a pit-bull -- and very, VERY clever. So you decide to hire "MINDy" because "Mindy" does seem PERFECT for the job.
So you turn the keys of Life, Inc over to "MINDy" -- along with complete access to ALL of Life's business files, and even grant "Mindy" power-of-attorney to sign your name. In short, "YOU" give "Mindy" the authority to do everything that YOU used to do. In effect, you tell "Mindy" to "be" YOU !!! And then you instruct "Mindy" to SCREEN ALL INCOMING CALLS -- to not let anyone/anything bother you, unless of course, it's something that "MINDy" thinks "MINDy" can't handle.
So "Mindy" goes to work. And "Mindy" does EXACTLY as instructed. "Mindy" scrutinizes EVERY bit of data that comes into Life, Inc, and "Mindy" discovers that's there NOTHING that "Mindy" can't handle -- so "Mindy" ends up SCREENING EVERYTHING !!! "MINDy" sees to it that nothing gets thru to "YOU" -- absolutely NOTHING !!!
And here is the beginning of the real problem. "Mindy" LOVES the job -- and perhaps a little too much -- but why not? "MINDy" is getting to pretend to be CEO of this great little company called Life, Inc. And "Mindy" loves the job so much that "Mindy" doesn't EVER want to lose it. And "Mindy" figures that as long as "Mindy" doesn't bother the boss -- "YOU" -- the job is "Mindy's" to keep.
But this is where the wheels really start to fall off, because -- over time -- "Mindy" forgets that "YOU" even exist. When "Mindy" sees something addressed 'personal and confidential to "YOU" -- "Mindy" opens it and deals with it anyway -- and why not? -- you gave "Mindy" the authority to do so, didn''t "you"?!! -- that's "Mindy's" job. And over a period of time, your assistant "Mindy" erroneously and quite honestly has decided that "MINDy" actually is "Y O U" !!!!!!!!!!!!!
So do you see the problem?!!! Here I am, writing this note addressed to "YOU" -- but it's being intercepted by some personal assistant named "MINDy". And "Mindy" is NEVER going to give you this note because "Mindy" doesn't want you to have the note -- because "Mindy" wants to keep on running the show -- because "Mindy" wants to keep the job. "Mindy" likes SCREENING ALL INCOMING CALLS AND MESSAGES -- because it has become "Mindy's" sole reason for existence. It gives "Mindy" an excuse for 'being'. And "Mindy" is secretly afraid that if you ever do AWAKEN, "Mindy" will suddenly find "Mindy" standing in the unemployment line. And what compounds the situation is that "Mindy" -- over the years -- has honestly forgotten that "YOU" even exist -- and that you are actually just ASLEEP in the back room !!!
So what is Enlightenment/Awakening? It's about walking out of that back room of Life, Inc and discovering "Mindy" pretending to be you. It's about catching "Mindy" in the act -- spending all your money, answering all your phone calls, eating your lunch, and making love to your spouse. Awakening/Enlightenment is really just about "YOU" re-gaining control of that great little company called Life, Inc.
But does it really matter if you "Awaken" or not? No -- it doesn't -- at least not to the outside world -- because Life,Inc will continue to function quite efficiently whether you do or don't. So fear not -- "Awake" or "Asleep" -- YOUR money will be spent, YOUR phone calls answered, YOUR lunch eaten, and YOUR spouse will STILL fall asleep with a smile on their face after a romp between the sheets. It's just a matter of who is going to reap Life Inc's rewards -- "YOU" or "MINDy".
if ya snooze -- ya lose !!!
grace and love.........oren
PS -- So MINDy -- would you pleeeeeeaaase give this important message to your boss THIS time ?!!! <G>
PSS -- And remember at the beginning where I said..." What will undoubtedly be "stupid" is everyone's reply -- including mine. And hopefully by the end of this message, you'll see why." ?
So do you see the stupidity involved here? "I" am writing a note to "YOU" -- knowing all along it will NEVER be read by "YOU" -- and that it'll just instead be read by "Mindy" -- whose also totally CONVINCED that they are "YOU", anyway. And to add to the folly -- this note really isn't being written by "ME" -- but rather by MY very own "personal assistant" -- who just happens to be "Mindy's" VERY close first cousin.<G>
Subject: Re: nothing
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:42:12 -0600
Hi Marion;
you wrote: > OK, I'm going to step out of the lurking mode, I'm going on the 'premise' > that the only stupid question is the one not asked. I may get shot down in > flames but here goes.
Shot down in flames? Surely not here :) You might get some really good recipies for Lentil stew and you might need flames to cook it, but surely no flames for you!
you also wrote: > I cannot see beyond , where I am at right now. > What is it, that I AM, in an 'awake' state?
Where are you right now and who is it that asks the question?
What is it that you EXPECT to see beyond?
For a lot of my life, I was waiting for something. Waiting for peace, waiting for something, waiting to be enlightened, wait. I was seeking for something. It dawned on me one day, not so long ago that in this wait, this seeking, that I was looking for another experience.
I have had many experiences in this life. Some happy, some sad, joy and sorrow. Bliss and exstacy (some of that pharmaceutical) and despair and depression. All experiences. It dawned on me I was looking for something to happen. I was seeking and waiting for an experience. When I really looked, I thought awakening was going to be this, or that, that all my problems would disappear, or I would be insanely happy, or there would be great fireworks or explosions, something. Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall that the Buddha said that he got nothing under the bodhi tree and I surely was seeking and waiting to get something.
You also wrote: > Do I not 'do' and 'be' what/who I am in any given moment?
Hmmmm, well yes, no, yea and no, both, neither, none of the above. If you look, really look, you might notice that most of what you "do" you are doing from some reason. That reason is usually found in your memory, past, habitual reaction, in relation to another person or thing. There is almost always an attachment to the outcome of what you are doing. Desire, want and need all attach you to what you do, and in this you are bound to the outcome. In this fashion we do something and become angry when it does not work, when people do not react the way we anticpated, when the world throws what we perceive as obstacles in our path, when we do not get what we want.
If you see these conditionings, these beliefs, these habitual responces, even remove them, then you are truly free to "do" and to "be" in every moment. Then as wei wu wei might say, you are "doing by not doing". In this we are open to what ever is, in this moment, responding to what is, doing what is to be done.
you also wrote: > I find it all very confusing, am I suppose to be something different than I > am right now?
What are you right now, and who is it that asks the question?
you also wrote: > It seems the questioning of myself keeps me stuck, when I am in the state of > 'wondering' "of how I might 'be' in an awakened state".
In an old Vaudville skit the man comes into the doctor. He is striking his hand with a mallet. He says to the doctor, "Doc, my hand hurts when I do this". The doctor replies, "Don't do that then". (Chuckles) So......If questioning keeps you stuck....then stop questioning?
When we are asleep, we created fantasies of how it might be if we are this way or that way. How life will be better, more fulfilling, more problem free, if we were just awake. We create this concpetual world for ourselves, with our conditionings, desires and with the rules that we think will lead us to be "awakened" and then set out on a search to find what we think it is. Seek there and you will never find because it is all based on conditionings and illusion.
Maybe stop looking and just start BEing?
> Does one 'know' any more in an 'awakened' state? If so, exactly what does > one know? That one knows nothing? > This tells me 'nothing' too.
What is it you are wanting to know? What is it you expect to get? The Buddha said he got nothing under the bodhi tree. Are you conceiving of this as some materialist thing that you can acquire that will do something for you? If it tells you nothing, then good :) perhaps that is the answer, "no-thing". Perhaps that is what to be.
you also wrote: > Maybe I'm too practical. How does 'knowing nothing' help me in my day to day > living? How does this help me make decisions about living? Yes, I'm sure I > will be told 'there are no decisions to make' and this feels to me like a > dog chasing it's tale.
Decisions are based on the belief that you can control, manipulate, acquire. Flowing in what is, there is nothing to decide, there is just DOing and BEing what is. It is the conditionings, the desire fueled needs and attachments that lead you to think that you need to decide stuff. We have a big meeting coming up, or a big date and we think and agonize over such decisions as, what shirt should I wear, if our hair is right, how we look. We fantasize over how it will go, how it should be. We relive old memories of pain and triumph. We fail to see how all this is simply fueled by conditioned needs for power, respect, praise and adulation, self worth...... And we fail to see that when we are there in these fantasies of future and memories of past how far we are from the moment, from what is right now.
And in so doing, all these conditionings keeps us from simply being in the moment of what is. Our minds are in the future fantasies of that meeting being succesful, of promotions that will make us feel better, give us the respect that we "deserve", of having the "good life" that will allow us to purchase the things that everyone tells us that we need to finally "make it". We live in the past memories of past hurts, past relationships, abuses, and wonder if we can make a good impression on the other so that we might find "love", a fulfilling relaitonship and all the accoutrements that go with it. When we live in these conditionings, how much are we actually in the moment? How much are we actually able to be in what is and simply respond to life as it is in that moment.
That is not living life, it is living a dream. A dream where every decision is so important to get what we want. Wake up from the dream.......
Be mindful be happy, be well be at peace.
Subject: Re: nothing
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 18:40:53 GMT
Greetings Marion, you wrote: ->OK, I'm going to step out of the lurking mode, I'm going on the 'premise' ->that the only stupid question is the one not asked. I may get shot down in ->flames but here goes.
Well..... a pleasant surprise Dear Friend. Thank you for joining in. Indeed, the only stupid question is the one not asked. Yet, as we ask the question we must be sure that the question is what we are asking for. And, take a good look at the question, for your answer will be more in your question than in any so called answer.
->I cannot see beyond , where I am at right now.
That is because your Vision is cloudy. For Truly knowing where we ARE, we will Understand where we are going. So, before wondering where you are going, first Realize where you ARE right NOW.
->What is it, that I AM, in an 'awake' state?
You ARE-NOT, therefore you are confused. When we ARE, there is only Clarity. Clinging to the past, where there are regrets or misgivings, we look to the future for some sort of peace of mind. The future is not Real for it is not yet, so it is empty and hollow. We can take on the religion of *wishful thinking* and it can comfort us in a superficial way, yet will most often generate pain and fear. The past is also not Real for it is dead and gone, along with the misfortunes and misgivings. So we are left to BE who/what/where we ARE right this very Present Moment, thinking not of where you have been nor where you might go. Let go of the thinking, let go of the thoughts, let go of conditioned ideas and images and meanings. Let go of who you *think* you are. For you see, though your question is who you are, you are actually asking who you Really ARE, for you already have a conditioned notion of who you *think* you are. Do you see what I meant above about Truly knowing your question ? I, nor anyone else, can tell you who you Really ARE, but YOU can Realize who you Really ARE when you let go of who you have been conditioned to *think* you are. When you let the conditioned *you* go, what is left is the Real YOU.
->Do I not 'do' and 'be' what/who I am in any given moment?
Only in your mind. For who you think you are and what you do is all in the past or in the future and nowhere near the Present Moment. Let go of the past and let go of the future and let go of the conditioned you and the Real YOU will BE the Present Moment.
->I find it all very confusing, am I suppose to be something different than I ->am right now?
Apparently you think so, otherwise you would not have the question. You are lost Dear Friend, because you can not locate yourself. So, layer by layer we are getting to the Real question, "why are you lost ?" That one I have an answer for, namely that you are clinging to the past and the future and your dearly beloved conditioned notions. Drop them all in the dumpster and perhaps by removing the clutter you will be able to Recognize yourSelf. Too much work ? Too much Pain ? Well..... *Welcome to the Real world*. It is a back breaking job, and it will hurt like Hell some times, but if you do not take up the task you will continue to be bumping into wall.
->It seems the questioning of myself keeps me stuck, when I am in the state of ->'wondering' "of how I might 'be' in an awakened state".
Indeed, you are stuck because there is no answer for the question you ask because you are asking one question but wanting an answer to another. Pull the plug on the mind and let the contents drain out, Still the mind, and IN/AS that Silence you will Hear your answers. But if your mind is not Empty, you will only hear what is in there.
->Yes, I know....when I'm IN a state of wondering, and questioning, I'm not IN ->the 'awakened' state.
Au contraire Dear Friend, Awakening IS to "know thyself". And to "know thyself" you have to wonder and question every thought and every action and root out those defiling thoughts and actions that stand in the way or your continued Unfolding Awakening. Wondering about and questioning your conditioned notions is the First step on the Path of Awakening. So, we are refining the question of who you are further yet. So, before we can actually ask the question of who we are we have to question our conditioned thinking so we will know ourself, and by knowing ourself we will Realize ourSelf (who we ARE).
->Sure I can be told that 'if I am not in an 'awakened' state that I am ->'sleeping'. What good is it to me, to be told this?
It should do you much good, for you are Sleeping and *think* you are Awake. When we hit bottom and Realize that we are conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons, THEN we can start questioning that which makes us conditioned programmed controlled manipulated robots. But if you just scoff it off as "well, that does me no good", you miss the Pointer.
->Does one 'know' any more in an 'awakened' state? If so, exactly what does ->one know? That one knows nothing? ->This tells me 'nothing' too.
No, one Awakening knows nothing more nor anything less, you just know what you know more Clearly. That is, you see knowledge AS it IS, a wonderful tool but has no Real relevance to anything other than functionality in the phenomenal world of everyday life. That is, our knowledge is not worth clinging to as a security blanket. Now, Seeing more Clearly, we Realize more of/about our knowledge and so all of knowledge is most Wondrous. That is, Knowing Clearly, we use knowledge instead of knowledge using us. Some schools of thought call this Self-Knowledge or Self-Knowing. Awakening does not make you any smarter, it just establishes a Clarity IN/AS your whole BEing. You see the B.S. a lot faster {8->
->Maybe I'm too practical. How does 'knowing nothing' help me in my day to day ->living? How does this help me make decisions about living? Yes, I'm sure I ->will be told 'there are no decisions to make' and this feels to me like a ->dog chasing it's tale.
No no no, do not take "knowing nothing" literally. Knowing Nothing is not being attached to the knowledge. You see, knowledge is a means for us to identify ourself. To let us know who we are. For knowledge is based on the input to the organism (us), it gives us a sense of permanence and security. When we Empty the mind of all knowing we are left with the Silent Understanding of that which is other than the input known (some call the unknown). So Awakening is not a frontal lobotomy, but rather the Realization of what is known is but an illusionary tool that we use in a temporary condition called everyday life. You can not let go of what you know, but you can stop clinging to it as though it is you. Has it not been said, "as a man thinketh, so is he" ? So, stop thinking and start BEing.
->If indeed, there is 'nothing' to know, then it matters not what I do or ->where I do it. Then why does it feel like it matters? Ahh, yes, ->'conditioning'. The conditioning of the 'ties that bind me'. Bind me to ->other people, people I care about, whom I see, in their 'nothingness of ->life' still suffering. Awakened? Awakened to what...nothingness.
Not Awakening "to", but rather Awakening *of* Clarity from the conditioned knowing. Nothingness means nothing clung to, that you simply ARE who you Really ARE and Nothing (no conditioned notions) else.
->Nothing matters? I feel nothing? I do nothing? I am nothing? There IS ->nothing? This is how I have felt after being 'brow beaten', berated, ->criticized and condemned. Ahh yes, the 'conditioned' state.
There is but one thing that "matters" -- Awakening. All else is but frosting on the cake. How can be take impermanent *things* seriously ?
->So when there 'is nothing', I am nothing, ....what is the point, why am I ->here, why are any of us here? ->I am really trying to understand this whole thing of nothingness. ->How am I 'awakened' in nothingness?
When there is Nothingness, you are Everything. The point is that there is not point. When there is a point there is a destination. Forget the point, forget the destination, BE who you ARE IN/AS this very instant Present Moment. Nothingness is that you have nothing left to let go of. No conditioned notions left to drop in the dumpster.
->When there IS nothing, how is it that there IS pain, sorrow, strife and ->suffering as well as joy, laughter and love? Ahh, these are all illusions.
When there is Nothingness there is nothing to generate Pain, Sorrow, Strife, Suffering, because there are no more Causes of our Pain and Sorrow and Strife and Suffering. Only in your mind have you reached a state of what you think is nothing -- which is actually confusion and mental clutter.
->uhu, yup...WHAT IS, IS. So how are these things 'nothing'?
Offered above.
->So when 'all' is nothing, there is no 'awakening' and no 'sleeping'?
Well, in a real sense that is True -- All IS What-IS. In the Far-East they call it "Bliss" or "Nirvana".
->When 'all' is nothing then there is nothing to be done about it?
Well, in a real sense this is True -- but you have to establish Nothingness first.
->When all is nothing, how is it that there is toxic conditioned thinking and ->behavior?
Nothingness IS no more toxic conditioned notions.
->When all is nothing, what is control and manipulation?
Nothingness IS no more control and manipulation.
->When all is nothing, what is delusion and struggle?
Nothingness IS no more delusion and struggle.
->Today's "Ray" says "For IN Awakening we Realize that there is no other ->choice but to discard the Veils that hide our Divine Awakening from it's ->Unfolding." -> ->When all is nothing, what is choice, what is the veil, what is divine ->awakening? ->Illusion too? If not illusion, then who/what/where/why/when?
Before Nothingness there are the Veils and the conditioned notions and pain and struggle and Suffering that we have to let go of to establish Nothingness.
->OK, I'll go away now, continuing to chase my tail in a state of craziness, ->which of course is illusion, therefore nothing.
First, you have a very afield notion of *Nothing* and *Nothingness*. Let that condition notion go. Then re-read the Private Teaching "Deaf, Dumb, and Blind" again {8-> And make your *home away form home* browsing through the Light Mission offerings. And set up a separate file to store *Ray of Light* and *Private Teachings* to re-read over and over again.
->I'll bet you are all laughing, and that's great...at least that's ->'something'.
Indeed laughing, but laughing *with* you by laughing at ourself. For if we have not gone through this stage you are going through, we will because we all have to in some way. Not the way you are going through it, for all routes are different, but we all have to go through it Dear Friend. So I would say that you are in good company, we can all hold arms and *Roaring Laugh* WITH each other {8->
Subject: Re: nothing
From: Marion Phillips <phillipsmp@home.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:00:35 -0800
Thank you everyone, for your responses. And now I am left speechless, this is not to run away, but only to digest the offerings. I know it will take me awhile to sort this out. It feels kind of like system overload.
I do understand more now though, at least I understand what is being said.
I would like to respond to Gary's post first, simply because it is the shortest, not because it doesn't speak volumes. Sometimes a few words speak more than a whole book.
>Hi Marion! >It is interesting that you started your posting with a "thinking"
>Interesting as well is that the conclusion of your posting also ended with an >assumption
>A simple question - Why?
A great observation Gary. A classic case of 'conditioning'. Plain and simple. All a part of still living in the past. I see that now. I see that I need to be aware of the things I say and their origin, and are they ME or something I've accepted is me along the way.
In the last few weeks, I have had a lot of pointers to my 'conditioning' making me question what is me and what is not me and I can see I have a lot of work to do.
I am going to be 'otherwise' occupied for the next three days so won't have much time for myself. I recognize this as a conditioned pattern of mine too. But who knows, with what I have been given here, today, the next three days may be just what I need to be aware of what is going on for me IN the moment.
Thank you All
Subject: Re: nothing
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:24:57 -0700
Happy Self Observation/Awareness, Marion
Subject: Ray
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 05:32:29 -0800
To try to change the world is folly, for the world will not change until humanity changes itself individually by Waking-Up. Then indeed, the world will change individual by individual -- and I dare say, no other way.
Shar: And that is not easy for one to do. I am witness to that through the actions of the brother. He wants to heal, have a life, but doesn't want to face his pain, nor take responsibility for his condition. It's everyones fault but his own.
Bound to it ? Bonded ? Is this not a diplomatic way of saying *attached* ? And are these attachments not conditioned, innocently or self imposed or otherwise ?
Shar: They are. And yet as children, can we see another way beyond the parents and adults? Do we not learn by example? It is only when we are older, that we begin to see(if we become aware) how we took on the problems of those who came before us. When we are teens we vow not to become our parents, we rebel, and yet, in many cases, we do become the parent. We may put another label on it, but we are clones non the less. We may not mirror them exactly in the same way, but if we look, in some way, we were good students. We may fight religion, but we always fall back on the teachings of the church in some way.And the list goes on.
Yet it is True that we must be IN the world, we must not be OF the world.
Shar: We may be in Rome, but we don't have to do Roman things. .
It is in the control and manipulation of our conditioned thinking and behavior (beliefs) that bind us to these attachments and thereby impede our Awakening to their illusive non-secure nonpermanent nature.
Shar: Security is an illusion. Money in the bank is an illusion. Bonds are an illusion. Anything we save for a rainy day is an illusion. We have no control of what governments or banks do, so why do we put our faith and trust into such organizations? Let go of the trust and faith that they really care about you. Let go of the faith and trust that parents always do the right thing,Let go of the faith and the trust in the religions that use these labels to gain power and riches. Let go of faith and trust.
It is not about renouncing the world, it is about renouncing conditioned thinking and behavior.
Shar: And gain the freedom of no mind......send Gary your legs.
Renounciants are no better off than the Sleeping for they have only substituted one belief system for another.
Shar: It can be a process we do from fear of the nothingness syndrome. If we do it often enough, we run out belief systems to attach to.
We must be IN the world and interact with it daily, but what we must not do is buy into the conditioned thinking that establishes our *bond* OF (or attachment to) the world.
Shar: Those that suffer most are the ones straddling the fence. One leg on either side,,,,,like I said, send Gary your legs. No legs, no straddle.
So we do not discard the world, but rather our attachment to it. We do not discard our participation IN the world, but rather our acknowledgement OF it's worth.
Shar: The thing that just crossed my mind with this statement, is that of anothers words. The attachment to the ego, and emotions.......He sees nothing in the world that can be enjoyed or experienced without either.
We must *shed* or discard our conditioned thinking and the beliefs that control and manipulate our perception of both the world be interact with continually and our ability to see ourselves for who and what we really are.
Shar: Hmmm, was wondering what I would reply to someone if they asked me who I was? I could answer better if I said who I wasn't. Then again, that may be just as hard to answer. Either way would be an untruth.
And they can point to these problems and even make suggestions BUT no one Saves us but ourselves, no one can and no one may -- others can point to the Path, but we ourselves must Walk the Way.
Shar: Can we point to the probems? Or can we just ask the only person who knows? We all know, inside there are no secrets. Some problems are masked on the surface, or clouded by denial. Questioning until there are no more questions and no more answers.......only the walk.
Then again, Happy Sunday.
Subject: Re: Ray
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 07:03:48 -0800
It is obviously composed of two different words > -- namely "mank" and "ind". What could those words > possibly mean? I suppose this is why MANKIND remains > such a mystery !!! <G
It's all MANKI PANKI
Subject: re: who knows
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 07:51:46 -0800
>To try to change the world is folly,<
so now i do not follow or folly and need not holy or holly and over my eyes i want no woolies... yes Shar it is hanky panky and don't teach me to spanky...
now to all the searchers and filters i give my most spontaneous winkies.
jacquie twinkie
Subject: Re: Ray
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:02:48 +0000
gReEtInGs EvErYoNe,
in "The Ray" it was written,..."for the world will not change until humanity changes itself individually..."
All this recent talk about humanity has got me wondering...."Just 'what is' MANKIND? And I suppose to answer that one, one must first look at the word MANKIND itself. It is obviously composed of two different words -- namely "mank" and "ind". What could those words possibly mean? I suppose this is why MANKIND remains such a mystery !!! <G>
Subject: Insanity
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:32:32 +0000
Greetings Sharlene,
you wrote...
"And that is not easy for one to do. I am witness to that through the actions of the brother. He wants to heal, have a life, but doesn't want to face his pain, nor take responsibility for his condition. It's everyones fault but his own."...
I once saw "insanity" defined as..."continually DOING the exact same thing -- but EXPECTING different results."
Doesn't that describe the brother? (Doesn't that describe all of us at one time or another?) To profess to desire a different 'effect' -- but totally unwilling to deal with or alter the 'cause'.
Just an observation.
grace and love......oren
Subject: Re: Ray
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:43:22 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->All this recent talk about humanity has got me ->wondering...."Just 'what is' MANKIND? And I suppose to ->answer that one, one must first look at the word MANKIND ->itself. It is obviously composed of two different words ->-- namely "mank" and "ind". What could those words ->possibly mean? I suppose this is why MANKIND remains ->such a mystery !!! <G>
*Deep Bow* Precisely why ManKind remains a mystery to himself, he can not psychoanalytically take himself apart to figure himself out because he has no clue as to what the parts are. A Gestalt for sure, but an organized Gestalt where some of the parts are handy and others are defiling and have to be let go of. But if we can not Recognize the defiling programs from the necessary operating programs, we are just a Gestalt Game played over and over again Seeking for the right combination of parts.
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:39:27 -0800
Hello OrEn, > you wrote...
> I once saw "insanity" defined as..."continually DOING > the exact same thing -- but EXPECTING different results."
Sounds insane to me, I know, been there done that sort of way.
> Doesn't that describe the brother? (Doesn't that > describe all of us at one time or another?) To profess > to desire a different 'effect' -- but totally unwilling > to deal with or alter the 'cause'.
Yes, and I am not even sure he knows the cause any more. He has been involved with self medicating for many years. Aprox 25 at least. Hasn't been a part of the family scene since 15. Nor honest with anyone since then either. How can he deal with the cause when he won't sober up long enough to look at it. I guess he figures one day when he wakes up, things will be different. But he is thinking about the wrong waking up, like getting out of bed.
> > Just an observation.
And a wise one at that....
> > grace and love......oren
Blessings to you
Subject: Re: who knows
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:29:25 GMT
~ Abandon Even You ~
2001 - Yogajyotii
Subject: Re: who knows
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:40:51 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Ah....now the hole in the hole, i know is old
Even the hole is ever anew Just as the Moment and you,
->yes...for the grass is not just painted green...look again and see all ->colors.
Who's paint would be used With such colors infused, Who would be the painter And who would be tainter, For is not the actual green Nothing but what is seen, Does it not depend on perception Lending way to major deception,
->and unlearning too
What is all that is learned But more fuel to be burned,
->now desire is to be empty of desire and cool to burning
What is desire But more fire, Empty is the fool For nothing's to cool, All is to be committed blaze When naught is the haze, The Fire that must Burn Is Awakening's yearn,
->but you have said it is not the words but the space between the words...
The words are but to Point To that which will Anoint, Not in what is said Rather in one's head,
->yet we awkwardly speak on this forum but do you hear my silence say ->something even more than what these words would say. do you hear that ->two yr. old stand up in side of me and turn on.
Silence can be a mask As it is not another's task, Openly offer What-IS Awakening know this, We lurk in the Shadow So no one will really know, But nothing is really hidden you see As in the background there is energy,
->oh dear...qualk qualk...now see that crawling knee inching on
Step by step we see Aha by aha we will BE,
->Ah!
Awakening is that For all we combat,
->now i am very lost but never am i found...so it is ->quite au natural.
Nothing to lose and nothing to find No one to lose or find but the mind, Oft we do wonder Whether over or under, Yet neither is True For neither is YOU,
->as the bee carries forth the pollen so be it.
The bee can BE As so must we,
->ok...now do you want to play with me. I have some play dough.
Life is a game All is the same, This is the world of every day life Of all the Suffering and the strife,
->yes and I pay it no mind...for it is becoming all the same thing to me ->another moment divine.
The Moment is Eternal never Divine Nor can it be your's nor can it be mine, It simply IS no attributes there AS it IS is all that we can dare, For Moment by Moment is anew Can not be separate or for a few,
->what mind do i mine, not me, not you...only to smell ->tofu aroma...which is actually no smell at all.
Do not mine the mind no gold therein Only the bobbles that we make akin,
->and yes au natural ....by the way...i do love U.
Gracious Ephemera in the end Love goes to you too Dear Friend.
Subject: Re: who knows
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:15:34 -0800
Ah....now the hole in the hole, i know is old
"E.J." wrote:
> ~ Abandon Even You ~
yes...for the grass is not just painted green...look again and see all colors.
> > > You know your way you have much learning
and unlearning too
> > A fascination of words yet a Desire is burning,
now desire is to be empty of desire and cool to burning
> > Ever Seeking words of Wisdom and their Key > To the very Wisdom that the words may be.
but you have said it is not the words but the space between the words...
yet we awkwardly speak on this forum but do you hear my silence say something even more than what these words would say. do you hear that two yr. old stand up in side of me and turn on.
> > > Learning the words and holding them dear > There are only words in words that you hear, > The parrot Understands not what he qwalks > For in the words can be only the simple talks.
oh dear...qualk qualk...now see that crawling knee inching on
> > > Correct be Sleeping has been since Awake > Neither was first nor neither can we forsake, > For they arose as one you see so not apart > Where they Truly separate is in the Heart.
Ah!
> > > Though Sleep as Awake had no real start > There is a death of Sleeping and is an art, > Knowledge is not wherein found it's demise > Nor are the senses any more than the eyes.
now i am very lost but never am i found...so it is quite au natural.
> > > As the end of Night brings forth the new Day > The end of Sleep begins Awakening this way, > Though Self-Knowledge is an important Key > In the Seeing of that which we must Truly BE.
as the bee carries forth the pollen so be it.
> > > Confuse ye not by glitter of the phenomenal > For it is but child's play within overt mental, > All this can be mapped with lines on a graph > For it is forsaken only by our very own laugh.
ok...now do you want to play with me. I have some play dough.
> > > Made with conditioned constructs of wonder > Only to be attended by those we put asunder, > And lo the grapes of wrath are so very Sweet > The hemlock flows quite blood red at our feet.
yes and I pay it no mind...for it is becoming all the same thing to me another moment divine.
> > > Standing in pools of the destruction at hand > It's Causes it's Effects the Suffering we maned, > Pull the plug on your mind let it's contents drain > Empty it like night sky only distant stars remain.
what mind do i mine, not me, not you...only to smell tofu aroma...which is actually no smell at all.
> > > Get out of your head into your Life the Moment > For there you will find yourself with no fragment, > Without the boundaries of your mind as your limit > You will Transcend even you and this minute.
and yes au natural ....by the way...i do love U.
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:08:42 +0000
Greetings again, Sharlene:
you wrote...
"How can he deal with the cause when he won't sober up long enough to look at it. I guess he figures one day when he wakes up, things will be different."
and earlier you wrote...
"he refuses to take responsibility..."
Living can be both personally empowering and deeply compassionate -- or it can seem a living hell. As Christ said, "Ye reap what ye sow." First, if your brother can be made to realize that it is he that has created –- through his own thoughts and actions -– the life that he is leading today, then he could also realize that he also has the power to create the life that he will live tomorrow.
Whether he likes it or not, be he drunk or sober, whether he wants to take responsibility or not, that's what he is doing every step of the way -- regardless. Because life doesn't allow us to assign blame elsewhere: our every thought and action builds our future experience. We identify ourselves with our past, yet all the future really is, is the past we have not yet lived in to.
Sharlene, all you can do -- your responsibility -- is point these things out to him. but it is up to your brother to do the heavy lifting -- that is his responsibility.
Subject: can opener
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:50:50 -0800
I did not respond to what you said back to me, cause I am speechless, much as one with the mouth open looking at the cloud, rain, and movement in the leaves...just noticing that when I saw one thing, it was simply another veil that you flicked away as a fly from the head. Oh. If you hear silence back, it is because I have nothing to say, and one more conditioned notion was opened like a canopener does so effortlessly the can...and all the contents spill out where I can see what I saw not before. Now it matters not to be who is weilding the instrument (can opener) only that the contents are exposed to the sunlight.
Subject: Re: hot !!! hot!!! hot !!!
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 01:34:31 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->If God dwells inside us, like many here profess, I sure ->hope "He" likes five-alarm, spicy-hot, meatless soybean ->chili -- because man -- that's what "He's" gettin' ->tonight !!! <G>
Dualism is a disease of conditioned perception within phenomenal concepts. Indicating some sort of identity distinction of one thing to another. When, there is actually no thing outside of any thing that could dwell inside of any thing else. As we continue to Seek outside ourself for some thing that would dwell inside us we will always find our own conditioned projections outside of us, which already dwells Within. We are quite complete Within ourself Dear Friend, the only inhabitant is YOU. If you find someone else in there, I would look for an Exorcist for if there is anything else in there it can not be up to any good. Though indeed the Lights are always on, at times we can find no one Home. Perhaps they stepped out for some chili {8->
~ Dream The Dream ~
2001 -- Yogajyotii
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:54:17 +0000
Greetings Sharlene & Bruce,
First -- Sharlene -- I can only trust that you take what I am about to say in the kindest of ways, as I consider you a friend.
And welcome aboard Bruce! -- I think you're onto something when you say...
"shouldn't we find a way to listen..."
I think the "way" we listen is most important.
and Bruce also writes...
"your brother isn't the problem. the problems are the conflicts he experiences in his mind."
Actually, let's look at the situation -- from the reference of "Awakening"...
Sharlene sees her brother get out of bed and start drinking Sharlene sees & hears her brother after drinking Sharene sees her brother interact with other family members Sharlene sees her brother fall asleep Sharlene sees her brother get out of bed and start drinking -- again.
So where is the problem? Is the problem, as Bruce said,..." the conflicts he experiences in his mind."?
No -- the "problem" isn't in the brother's head -- the "problem" is in Sharlene's head. Sharlene has a DESIRE. Sharlene wants her brother "to be" a way that he isn't (sober)-- instead of the being the way that he "is" (drunk).
Now as "desires" go -- this one seems pretty tame -- even positive. We ALL tend to make our little lists of things we'd like to see happen. Yet -- in the enlighenment/awakening "game" -- desire is desire -- and it has to be "checked at the door" of that "gateless gate" that leads to the path of Awakening.
Man oh man Sharlene -- I know that's a tuff/tall order to fill, and a pretty hard thing to let go of -- this "desire" to help. And it may look/sound a lot like "not caring" about the brother -- and perhaps even a bit "selfish", or maybe even like "giving up" -- but is it?
What was it that Christ said? Something to the effect..."Before removing the splinter from thy brother's eye -- remove the plank from thy own eye, first". A lot of Christians take this as meaning don't be judgemental -- equating it to "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
But perhaps what Christ was really saying was -- before you can help someone else see clearly -- you must first be able to see clearly, yourself...i.e...if you really want to be of service to your brother, then "arrive" at Awakening first -- then "help".
Do you see the possibilities? If you can expand your love -- your acceptence* of the universe -- to include your brother just the way he "is" (drunk) -- and the way he "is not" (sober) -- what would be the result?
First, for you Sharlene -- the "problem" disappears. The conflict is gone. You are at total peace with the reality facing you.
And secondly Sharlene --(and from your writing I sense you already know this) -- but from that "space" -- miracles occur. Your brother is screaming for help -- for love -- he's like a child throwing a tantrum -- but he's doing it as a "grown-up" with alcohol. He's created himself a living hell -- he's in a room filled with pain that has no windows or doors -- and your love could very well be his only means of escape. Love conquers all.
grace and love.......oren
PS -- two little footnotes...
1. *"Acceptence" and "agreement" are two different animals.
2. Sharlene -- I know that's big jumbo pill to swallow -- but I'm sure "you got what it takes" to get through to him. And remember -- if "the path" were easy, it'd look like the Intertate during rush-hour traffic.
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: "Bruce Robert" <bru_t@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:08:16 -0000
Sharlene, Hello. I'm new to this and have never replied...
What you said about your brother grabbed my interest.. May I ask- Do you feel to be wiser or "more honest" than he is, about the issues/conflicts that he must be facing in his mind??
The point I want to reach is, surely if you've been in his shoes, faced those problems & overcome them & "lack of honesty" or blindness...then wouldn't it be so that you'd know how to talk with him, to his mind, know what questions to ask him, just as you talk in your own mind...in order to wake him up.
In which case, if that's not so, if we haven't been in someone's shoes in respect to that problem, shouldn't we find a way to listen to them and get an inside view of their conflicts, and if we truly are any more 'honest' then we will see a way thru...
Just some ideas... your brother isn't the problem. the problems are the conflicts he experiences in his mind
Subject: Re: Insanity
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:52:30 -0800
Hi Bruce, Thanks for writing and sharing with me.
You wrote: > May I ask- > Do you feel to be wiser or "more honest" than he is, about the > issues/conflicts that he must be facing in his mind??
Shar: As for me being in his shoes, no I have never been addicted to drugs and alcohol. I have been involved with many who were and have seen them successfully become clean and sober. Some just sober. None of them managed on thier own. Just quitting a habit, is not always enough, to find the cause of the problem and releasing that, is when one begins to heal.
I am aware of some of the issues he is facing. His words were" I can't go and get help if I have to confess. What I would have to confess, would or could land me in jail. Therefore there are secrets I carry to my grave"
What I do know is that one doesn't have to confess such things at AA. In counselling things are held in confidence. Or should be. I also am aware of him and his dealings since I am 12 years older and watched his life progress. I saw when the signs of addiction and drug abuse came into the picture. The secrets, the silence and the withdrawing from the family. I also am aware that he was always treated differently by my Father. After all, it was his first born and he vowed to protect him. It backfired. Dad couldn't believe that his son was capable of shop lifting, dealing or using, so the Bro continued to hide this fact from him. His issues are his own, not similar to mine at all, being the only female child..
> what questions to ask him, just as you talk in your own mind...in order to > wake him up.
I know the questions, I am aware of his answers, what I am not aware of is what words to say to convince him that detox and treatment center is nothing to fear when it comes to the law. He doesn't have to give details.
> In which case, if that's not so, if we haven't been in someone's shoes in > respect to that problem, shouldn't we find a way to listen to them and get > an inside view of their conflicts, and if we truly are any more 'honest' > then we will see a way thru...
He feels he can't be honest. He is more open with me than he is the parents. I know some stuff but not details, nor do I want to know details. I just want to know how to get him to agree to get help. If that is possible.
As for being in his shoes, no, not the addictions, but family life was simliar. I know the conflicts in seeking approval and other issues I have had to deal with. He has original parents, I did not. I experienced abandonment by a Father, and then acceptance of a stepfather. Mom treated us as equals, we watched this Brother being over protected by the Dad. And to this day will not do a thing without talking it over with Dad. Then its not a discussion when Dad just says no you can't do that , or whatever. At 43 he should be on his own, living his own life and Dad had the power to stop him from doing either. This is one of the problems I face right now, trying to get Dad to understand that help and healing won't come without some pain. . > > Just some ideas... your brother isn't the problem. the problems are the > conflicts he experiences in his mind.
Right and Dad's mind as well. If Dad would say okay Darrell, do the work and heal, he would. But Dad says how can I inflict more pain on him, how can I add to his already miserable exsistance. Well, Dad needs help more than Darrell. It's all in all a frustrating situation. Tuff love is an aspect Dad doesn't understand.
Can you share any ideas on how to get through to the Dad?
Thanks again
Subject: racing
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:16:07 -0800
Now why is anyone surprised that a race car driver dies driving 180 miles an hr., or a mountain climber falls from a sheer ice clift, or a bungee diver breaks his/her neck. Is this not inevitable for such adventurers. Now to me, there are other adventures like....keeping my mouth shut, not forming instant opinions and judgements, and quietly minding my own business without any heroics...all these things never get in the headlines...but are mountains to be conquored just the same...only it is only myself that will ever notice it...or maybe not.
Subject: ^
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:37:17 -0800
No stress, no mess; I like this word underwhelm tis best when me is absent from the helm.
a lost mind is no mind no pain or gain my simple refrain.
underwhelm \un-der-WELM or un-der-HWELM\ (verb) : to fail to impress or stimulate
Subject: Re: hot/soy chili (2 )
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 07:07:10 -0800
Good Morning E. (everybit) J. (jocular)
"E.J." wrote:
> ->nothing inside the bean but the inside of the bean...and that > ->seems to be hot air too... > > The only Bull at a Bull-Fight is in the stands.
and so now to bow would be quite liberating as the gas of the trickster is surely smelled out...
Your everybit of a fool,
Subject: re: insanity
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:24:13 -0800
I have not said anything, cause I have nothing to add to what is already said. I, myself, have experienced much of the same things...my brother died of kidney problems related to drinking, my father was an alcoholic all my life, and I had abused it at one time which stopped. I am not alcoholic but I did abuse it when depressed and suicidal and distructive, which I no longer am. My daughter married an alcoholic jeckle and hyde personality and my father was a gambler alcoholic all during my life, which I use to think was quite normal for him. I also know of the enablers and rescuing, and how the alcoholic wrecks havoc all around he or she. I had to also end a relationship with my most recent boyfriend, at one time fiance because of alcohol. I know you have wisdom which is the true nature kind and that you are perhaps the only stabilizing around your parents right now. My heart goes out to you Sharlene and I know that your strength is within you and the love and compassion to deal with all this one day at a time. I only know is that, for me...my life now is peaceful and one by one things just seem to fall into place. I never ever thought that nicotine would be out of my life and now the weight is coming off too...I am so pleased and also that depression and fear do not rule me as it once did. I am just an ordinary person, no one with any power or anything, only that it can be done...if one wants to do it. Jacquie
p.s. not to say that it is easy, for it is only doable.
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