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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ March - Page 1 ~
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Subject: An Observation
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 03:32:41 GMT
Greetings Community,
As has been said of the so called 'ego-self', Sleeping we can not fathom Awakening for we have not been there yet other that first year of our life. Yet, Awakening we can fathom Sleeping because we have been there. Sleeping we do not even know that there is a conditioned ego-self for we are that conditioned ego-self (too close to the picture to notice). Awakening we Realize that when the conditionings are let go of that all of a sudden there is no longer an ego-self that NOW we Realize we *were*. Sort of a deductive reasoning, if you like.
So ego-personality is none other than conditioned programmed ego, conditioned programmed personality. Conditioned programmed, so yes quite made up -- quite the Illusion -- not our True Nature.
WHEN we let go of the conditionings there is no longer conditioned ego or conditioned personality. WHEN we let go of conditionings we are then NOT, or no-entity, or no me-entity, or no I-entity. So THEN, after letting go of conditionings, our seeming ego and seeming personality is nothing more than our True Nature manifesting in our thinking and behavior and in every aspect of our life. Even Awakening we all have had different routes to the Path and so our thinking and behavior will be slightly different from others Awakening, though all those Awakening will think and behave very much similar for the True Nature is the same. Sleeping there are many differences between individuals, Awakening there are few differences. Ever noticed that ?
WE as an individual entity apart from What-IS, in our perception Awakening we are NOT. It is the Realization that though we are an element in the phenomenal realm yet we are not distinct and separate from it, but rather ARE it. The Observer Observing the Observer AS the Observed. As an element IN/AS the phenomenal realm our functionality IN/AS the phenomenal realm is just the same as any other element. Difference being that Sleeping we identify with and therefore cling to the phenomenal realm, yet Awakening there is only our True Nature Which-IS (the phenomenal realm being only part of What-IS). That is why we can say that the phenomenal realm is an Illusion, though the phenomenal realm itself is not an Illusion our identification with it and therefore or clinging to it is an Illusion out of fear and a sense of security (as false as it may be).
One could say that the personality is an aspect of the ego, or that the ego is an aspect of the personality, though they work hand-in-hand as they were instilled or indoctrinated hand-in-hand. More of a cooperative effort actually. Both arise from the same conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sorts.
What seems to be so Fearful about Awakening ? The sky does not fall. Phenomenality does not end. We can still have all our possessions. We can still go play poker on poker night. We can still enjoy the very things we have always enjoyed. Why do we run from Awakening as though it is the plague ? Seeing the world without the rosy red hue is a problem ? What seems to be so Mysterious about Awakening ? It is as simple as bumping into a wall, which we do Sleeping. We can be forgiven for that which we do not know, as it is said Jesus requested, but there is no forgiveness for those who refuse to even consider.
Yes ? No ? Crazy ?
Subject: Affirmations Of Light
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:10:27 GMT
Greetings Community,
A clip from the book "Affirmations Of Light": "We must first ask ourselves two fundamental questions. One dealing with progression, looking back over the last ten years of your life, what conditions seem to be always with you? In the realm of background, look over the last ten years of your life, and what conditions seem to have changed? Remember to include only permanent states or conditions to answer question number one. In answering the second question you will be listing smaller changes -- people, places, and things.
"When you have done that, take the list you have made and answer the two questions by the use of an index. You can use this index for the background part of it. What conditions seem to occur in the fall of the year? Next, what conditions seem to occur in the winter? Next, what conditions seem to occur in the spring?
"Next, what conditions seem to occur in the summer? Your life actually runs through a life cycle or a profile. You have actually started to create a profile of this life cycle through these questions. You will notice that certain things happen to you over and over -- almost on a predictable basis. When you abstract the effect of these accumulated experiences you will he describing the conditions you listed in answer to your progression questions just a little while ago."
In seeing this cyclic rhythm, could we not determine our strong energy times and weak energy times of the year so as to better facilitate *Work On Ourself* ? Of course anytime is the Correct time, but is it not likely that at certain times of the year our potential for this extremely important Work offers greater advantage for such Work ? Then would it not be of value to know these peak energy times ?
Subject: Re: A Canadain Joke...
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 11:54:53 +0100
Dear Jacquie:) Thank you so much for both posts:)! I would have answered you sooner, but I am in the *flood* ;-) of do things at the moment, so I hadn't read you till now. A Wombat.... well I am a Kiwi actually living in the Netherlands, where I have now been longer than I have than in my native Country. When I first entered cyberspace, I assumed that most new Zealanders would call themselves Kiwi's, so I chose Wombat an Australian animal instead - <grin> reason being I am very slow with technical things, like computers, and they have the name to be sort of big and bumbling, except when they have babies, or are on their way to *food* LOL - well these few things seemed an awful lot like me :) Since then I have gained a lot more information about a Wombat, than I knew before.... I am now very glad that I took the name there is *much more* Wombat in me than I knew at the time:) - sort of became one of my totem animals. I have more info but I will need to take a look where to find it for you - I can't do that today Jacquie, but I will get back to you on this - okay? - kindest regards,
Subject: Re: update,
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 12:01:43 +0100
Hi Shar:) Yup you definitely win the *lotto* hee hee!! It's always nice to pop in and find the smiles and the wisdom, I have been busy with rather mundane matters, not very enlightening, it's amazing how they can take up your time tho ;-), I hope to have my quieter life back at the end of March. I only have Sunday to have a quick look at the moment, I do hope to better this tho - be well dear Shar! Kindest regards,
Subject: Re: update,
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:25:43 -0800
Good morning Wombat, >Yup you definitely win the *lotto* hee hee!!
Would be nice but scarey too. Life would change but the question is, would I?
>It's always nice to pop in and >find the smiles and the wisdom, I have been busy with rather mundane >matters, not very enlightening,
What a perfect opportunity to practise living in the moment. Mundane things change into the not so mundane when we focus on them. It is when we let our minds drift unto things we would rather do, that we find what we are doing, mundane. Everything we do is an experience if we allow it to be. Some find housework mundane and yet it is an experience of gratitude and humility. I think of the earth quake in Seattle a few days ago and wonder if the people involved realize that it is a wake up call. Life can change in an instant. We can take nothing for granted. After such a quake, I would think that they are grateful for the things in life, like doing dishes. The world has a way of reclaiming it's massive power and letting us know we are guests borrowing what we call our own. Nothing belongs to us, we take nothing with us except what we learn through experience. Mundane is only in our minds. Watch an ant on the ground, packing off the smallest piece of something edible, doing his part to feed and house the families. Thousands of tiny footprints that move the tiniest pieces of earth, so small we never notice, and yet keeping the earth in constant change. We think about each crumb that falls outside on the ground,that crumb may feed another. Or a bit of cloth that birds pick up to build their nest. Nothing is mundane. We are the only species that have trash. And that trash is provided because we have more than we need. There is more enlightening moments in the mundane than we notice when we are not aware of all that surrounds us.
>it's amazing how they can take up your time >tho ;-), I hope to have my quieter life back at the end of March.
Enjoy what you are doing in the moment you do it, be aware of the thousands of little stories around you and the mundane becomes the experience you are seeking.
>I only have Sunday to have a quick look at the moment, I do hope to better >this tho -
You make me smile. I do enjoy your popping in and saying hello. You are welcome in my mailbox anytime.
>be well dear Shar! >Kindest regards,
Thanks Wombat, enjoy everything you do and don't forget to breathe.
Subject: Amazing how some things work out...
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:27:02 +0000
His name was Fleming, and he was a poor Scottish farmer. One day, while trying to make a living for his family, he heard a cry for help coming from a nearby bog. He dropped his tools and ran to the bog.
There, mired to his waist in black muck, was a terrified boy, screaming and struggling to free himself. Farmer Fleming saved the lad from what could have been a slow and terrifying death.
The next day, a fancy carriage pulled up to the Scotsman's sparse surroundings. An elegantly dressed nobleman stepped out and introduced himself as the father of the boy Farmer Fleming had saved.
"I want to repay you," said the nobleman. "You saved my son's life."
"No, I can't accept payment for what I did," the Scottish farmer replied, waving off the offer.
At that moment, the farmer's own son came to the door of the family hovel. "Is that your son?" the nobleman asked.
"Yes," the farmer replied proudly.
"I'll make you a deal. Let me provide him with the level of education my son will enjoy. If the lad is anything like his father, he'll no doubt grow to be a man we both will be proud of." And that he did.
Farmer Fleming's son attended the very best schools and in time, he graduated from St. Mary's Hospital Medical School in London, and went on to become known throughout the world as the noted Sir Alexander Fleming, the discoverer of Penicillin. Years afterward, the same nobleman's son who was saved from the bog was stricken with pneumonia.
What saved his life this time? Penicillin.
The name of the nobleman? Lord Randolph Churchill.
His son's name? Sir Winston Churchill.
Someone once said: What goes around comes around. Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening.
Live like it's Heaven on Earth. grace and love........oren
Subject: re: A Canadian Joke (now extinct)
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 17:24:11 -0800
Greetings Dear Wombat: >Dear Jacquie:) Thank you so much for both posts:)! I would have answered you sooner, but I am in the *flood*<
Yes...and some are in a earthquake while I am just a snowflake.
Subject: dissolving thoughts
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 08:22:41 -0800
I have been reading and gradually taking in the Rays of light....then I realized the cause of my suffering and how my nose got bent....
This I realize: Nothing anyone does or does not do is the cause of my pain and or reactions. Only I am and only am I responsible for me. The thought that I had enjoined with other thought was the cause, until it was dissolved. Whether another responds to my post or not, now is of little difference to me or merit...for my true nature is not dual and is not separated and therefore not under any attack whatsoever as long as I enjoy the neutrality of that silence that has no commentary. I cannot say that I am always in this neutrality or without the reflexes of conditioning...but I am taking a step or two on this new path of moments anew. And when I am not then perhaps I am.
Subject: Dissolving Thoughts
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:23:39 -0800
I have been reading and gradually taking in the Rays of light....then I realized the cause of my suffering and how my nose got bent....
This I realize: Nothing anyone does or does not do is the cause of my pain and or reactions. Only I am and only am I responsible for me. The thought that I had enjoined with other thought was the cause, until it was dissolved. Whether another responds to my post or not, now is of little difference to me or
merit...for my true nature is not dual and is not separated and therefore not under any attack whatsoever as long as I enjoy the neutrality of that silence that has no commentary. I cannot say that I am always in this neutrality or without the reflexes of conditioning...but I am taking a step or two on this new path of moments
anew. And when I am not then perhaps I am.
Subject: When
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 22:24:53 -0800
When one can dance with an earthquake and a quivering butterfly emerging
from the silky prison...then one is beginning to sing the song of awakening anew...as we flew into black, orange, and yellow sky.
Subject: Re: Disolving thoughts.
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:32:21 -0700
Hi Jacquie! Good post .... I just came across this quote and thought it was apropos and wanted to share it with you and the others ~
"When one is a stranger to oneself, then one is estranged from others too."
-- Anne Wilson Schaef --
Subject: re: what Vinny said
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:32:39 -0800
Hi Vinny and You wrote:
Vin: >It always seemed to me, that when I got my nose outta joint when people did not respond to something I wrote was that I had attached to what I wrote.<
Jac: Well most of the time I do not remember...comes from old age :)
Vin: >By this I mean that I was looking for some reinforcement, someone to say that they agreed to validate the ego's need for approval, or to stroke it a bit telling me I was clever or some other play on those themes.<
Jac: I already know I'm clever but I don't think I'm smart...tee hee.
Vic: If in the moment you write, being and doing what you are and what is to be done, then you send then you are free...... If you are looking for something from it, needing the response from others, then you are attached to it.........<
Jac: I do not need nothing from another their money...just kidding :)
p.s. Dear Vinny, ...thankyou....now I must go find the white rabbit.
Subject: Re: Dissolving Thoughts
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:06:35 -0600
Greetings Jacquie and all
you wrote: "I have been reading and gradually taking in the Rays of light....then I realized the cause of my suffering and how my nose got bent...."
Your nose is bent too? wow. I got mine bent when I used to Full Contact Kickbox. Got it broke several times, hurt a lot as I recall. Bloody mess the whole thing. Even with all that it still did not knock any sense into me :)
you also wrote" "This I realize: Nothing anyone does or does not do is the cause of my pain and or reactions. Only I am and only am I responsible for me. The thought that I had enjoined with other thought was the cause, until it was dissolved. Whether another responds to my post or not, now is of little difference to me or merit...for my true nature is not dual and is not separated and therefore not under any attack whatsoever as long as I enjoy the neutrality of that silence that has no commentary. I cannot say that I am always in this neutrality or without the reflexes of conditioning...but I am taking a step or two on this new path of moments anew. And when I am not then perhaps I am."
It always seemed to me, that when I got my nose outta joint when people did not respond to something I wrote was that I had attached to what I wrote. By this I mean that I was looking for some reinforcement, someone to say that they agreed to validate the ego's need for approval, or to stroke it a bit telling me I was clever or some other play on those themes. If in the moment you write, being and doing what you are and what is to be done, then you send then you are free...... If you are looking for something from it, needing the response from others, then you are attached to it.........
Take gentle care!
Vinny May all creatures, all living things, all beings one and all, experience good fortune only. May they not fall into harm. Anguttara Nikaya II, 72
Subject: Re: dissolving thoughts
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 20:12:20 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->I have been reading and gradually taking in the Rays of light....then I ->realized the cause of my suffering and how my nose got bent....
Ray does come out with a FEW good ones now and then {8->
->This I realize: ->Nothing anyone does or does not do is the cause of my pain and or ->reactions. Only ->I am and only am I responsible for me. The thought that I had enjoined ->with other thought was the cause, until it was dissolved. Whether ->another responds to my post or not, now is of little difference to me or ->merit...for my true nature is not dual and is not separated and ->therefore not under any attack whatsoever as long as I enjoy the ->neutrality of that silence that has no commentary. I cannot say that I ->am always in this neutrality or without the reflexes of ->conditioning...but I am taking a step or two on this new path of moments ->anew. And when I am not then perhaps I am.
*Deep Bow* Who is to condemn, and who can be condemned, as what can be condemned. There is no *who* or *what* IN/AS the Present Moment, there just IS Eternal Infinite anew Present Moment. IN/AS the Moment one stands in awe IN/AS What-IS. One is speechless, mindless, motionless -- an ever anew Unfolding. We are there but we are not there, as everything is there but nothing is there. I liken the Direct Experience IN/AS this Eternal Infinite Moment to the eyeball, it sees yet it does not know that it sees or even exists -- it just does what is to be done whether it exists or not. THIS is NonDuality. It is the conditioned notion that there is anyone who can do anything of their own accord that makes us *think* there is Duality.
~ Dualism And NonDualism ~
2001 - Yogajyotii
Subject: Re: Just a Test
From: marcheta henry <marcheta@mail.cpty.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:12:05 -0800
Greetings, E.J. Everything seems to be working fine. Just now, found time to give you a reply that your message arrived .....in good condition, no breaks, tears, etc. Take care of yourself and keep the good messages coming. MH
Subject: Re: Duality ?
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 23:43:10 +0000
Greetings EJ,
you wrote...
"...the Oneness that you speak of is only experienced IN/AS the Present Moment..."
EJ, this may seem like a bit a hair-spliting, but there is a subtle nuance here that was brought to my attention recently in regards to the "state of oneness".
I had always expressed it pretty much as you had described above. But what was pointed out to me recently was...
in the "state of oneness", there is ONLY ONE thing...not two (Advaita)...so what may well seem like an 'experince' ultimately is not, for in that "state of oneness" there is not room for BOTH the "experience" and the "experiencer" (self/oneness)...life just "is". (Picky -- yes...but pretty hard to argue against that subtle distinction. So I've landed on the word "realization" to describe that peak event.)
This tidbit is compliments of that woman teacher/student of Advaita/Vedanta I mentioned a couple/three weeks ago. As it turns out, I give her a "thumbs up" -- a pretty sharp cookie -- she's been at it for about thirty years now, and studied in India for six years. She's currently the instructor at a center here in Florida. This is pretty much what she was getting at (with a twinkle in her eye) when she made that provacative statement "ultimately, 'knowledge' has the last laugh over 'experience'. Boy did that ever rub me the wrong way at first!(g)
I bring this up for a reason. At dinner, we got into a pretty deep discussion about the "desire" to "re- experience" that "state of oneness" and all it's beauty, etc. Of course, as I already knew, the "desire" itself is a mega-hinderance...but something else she pointed me towards was..."it is impossible to accomplish that which is ALREADY accomplished". (She had a one-word Indian(?) term for it -- but it escapes me -- maybe you know it.) Basically what she was saying was -- you cannot "find" that which is not "lost". Oh duh!
So the saga continues...another layer of skin peeled off my ol' onion.
grace and love......oren
Subject: Duality ?
From: Olga <starwind8@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:50:58 -0800
Hi EJ
Nice place you have here, thank you for inviting me.
I have absolutely no quarrel with your analysis below - but I do have a question and/or comment.
IF we are to be in a totally awakened state 24/7 - being ONLY in the here/now at all times totally aware and awake.....
How would I get my dishes done ?
Or get ready to go to work ?
Or make sure my family is fed ?
Think about it - all of those activities and more are based on past/future concepts.
There is a pile of dirty dishes in my sink.
In the NOW - oh yes - beautiful dirty dishes - let me enjoy the architecture of different sizes and colors played against the white porcelain sink. You are so radiant my beautiful dirty dishes - I am really enjoying you.
This could go on for many a "now" :))
Then REALITY intrudes [future thought] - IF I don't do these d* dishes, my family won't have clean plates to eat off tonight .... [past] and I know if I serve them food on these they are full of germs and my family is apt to get sick.
Which reminds me [past] I did not get any milk when I was at the store ...... calling son [future], hey kid run down to the corner and get us a gallon of milk please, so you kids will have something to drink at dinner - while I think about [future] of doing these dishes and [future] starting dinner ... now let me see [past] what do I have in the cupboard....
I know I am being absurd here, but sometimes it takes the ridiculous to make a point :))
There's got to be a reason why we live in a world of duality. And even though I KNOW its illusion, because it is relative and based on my perceptions which are based on my beliefs - there is a reason to be IN this world, though we do try not be be OF it.
I have had a lot of 'otherworld' experiences in glimpses, as I said on the other list, I call them Kodak Moments.... I believe they are there as 'markers' .. yes I understand completely that measuring against anything constitutes duality *grin*...
I am NOT saying these markers in any sense make me better/worse than you or the next guy. I am simply saying for ME, these markers are a carrot if you will, keeping me going when the sky falls as it is apt to occasionally.
Subject: Re: Just a Test
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 03:38:56 GMT
Greetings Marcheta, you wrote: ->Greetings, E.J. Everything seems to be working fine. Just now, found time ->to give you a reply that your message arrived .....in good condition, no ->breaks, tears, etc. Take care of yourself and keep the good messages coming.
Yes, though the Community was in an involved deep long stretched out discussion thread, someone sent an e-mail attached by a paper-clip. Which got hung up in the mail sorter and started jamming up the mail box. Weeell..... needless to say..... no messages could be sent out to the members of the Community.
So, as a general message to the Community, please do not send messages attached by paper-clip or stapled, and do not spindle or fold. Then the mail can get through..... through ice and snow and sleet and hale and tornado and hurricane and winds of gale force can not prevent Cyber-Mail. *The Mail Must Get Through !*
Thank you for your cooperation Wonderful Friends {8->
Subject: Duality ?
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:35:09 GMT
Greetings Community,
First, duality is a concept, a perceptual concept that is not actually Real at all. Though indeed, we are conditioned to *think* it is. Being a concept, duality is nothing more than a product of our ideas and images and meanings, conditioned to believe that Yin is separate from Yang. So in our conditioned mode of operation we have, as Jesus so aptly put it, "made the One Two" (divided the One into Two). Can we be Free of this Duality ? Jesus said that "in order to understand what I say you must make the Two again One". As did, by the way, most Wise Sages and Wise Teachers. So I would say that it is not so much a matter of whether we *can* be Free of Duality but rather that we *have to*. Not only do we have to, but we fist have to find out *how*. And it would seem that it follows that if indeed Duality is a concept of the conditioned programmed thinking, that if we were to rid ourselves of the defilements of the conditioned notions, that we would no longer be burdened by Duality.
So what is NonDuality ?
Such experiences are developed in a Meditation practice of *Concentration* or *Contemplation* or *Mindfulness*. AND of course, naturally triggered by something. For actually it is our True Nature to BE IN/AS Oneness.
Awakening from the delusions of our thinking we attune ourselves IN/AS the very Present Moment. Right Here and right Now. This is the only Reality at our disposal. But we cling to the past or hope for a better future. When actually the past is not Real for it has come and gone. So too the future is not Real for it is not yet. The Moment, the Present is the only Reality there IS. And it is Real AS it IS without us projecting conditioned notions of past or future into/onto that Moment. You see, our conditionings draw us back out of the Moment into some memory or other past event or hopes for some future event. So again, letting go of the conditioned notions that Veil our Realization/Recognition of the True Nature of Awareness/Compassion/Empathy/Understanding/Love that we ARE we are always in a state of BEing IN/AS the very instant Present Moment (Oneness). For as most of you have Directly Experienced, the Oneness that you speak of is only experienced IN/AS the Present Moment undefiled by conditioned notions of past or future. This is what Jesus meant when he said that we had to make the Two (our conditioned notions about Duality) into One (the singularity IN/AS the Present Moment or NonDuality -- Oneness).
As most of you know, it can be done. Question is, are you willing to let go of conditioned notions long enough to *Just Do It* (as the Niki ad says).
Anything anyone would like to add ? Or dispute {8->
Subject: Re: Duality ?
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 03:00:31 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->you wrote... ->E.J.:>"...the Oneness that you speak of is only experienced ->IN/AS the Present Moment..." -> ->Oren:>in the "state of oneness", there is ONLY ONE thing...not ->two (Advaita)...so what may well seem like an ->'experince' ultimately is not, for in that "state of ->oneness" there is not room for BOTH the "experience" and ->the "experiencer" (self/oneness)...life just "is". ->(Picky -- yes...but pretty hard to argue against that ->subtle distinction. So I've landed on the word ->"realization" to describe that peak event.)
This is True, One IS One (that is, if my math is still sound). First, Realization is no less a dualistic term than Experience, as in order to Realize there must be something to Realize and someone to Realize it. As in Experiencing there must be something to Experience and someone to Experience it. It is an inherent aspect of language to seem dualistic. You see, one can BE IN/AS Present Eternal Infinite Moment and the Moment that one opens one's mouth and utters a word that word no matter what it is it is dualistic because someone had to utter it. This being so, one can not look at the language and determine dualism for even one word is the expression of dualism. Such as, when your NonDualistic teacher tells you something there was something said and someone to say it. So by your own *logical deductive reasoning* you represent her as a Dualist. Just an example, to show that NonDualism or Oneness is not in the language or words but rather in the space between the words. This illustrates my constant harping on not focussing attention on the finger but rather to where the finger Points. You still focus on the finger Dear Friend.
Now, the state of Oneness. First, IN/AS Oneness there is not even One. We simply ARE Whatever-IS. Again, language deluding understanding for in order for there to be Oneness there would have to be other than Oneness, which is dualistic and not Oneness. BEing IN/AS the Moment is "brief and fleeting" because of the conditioned notions we harbor. And as also Pointed out, Wise Teachers have told us that we *must* embrace the Moment while in this phenomenal realm. After we leave we will be concerned with more important items, so it is indeed something that we really should establish Here and Now. In fact, the whole body of Wise Teachers have stressed to let go of the Duality and embrace the NonDuality. Westerners have yet to really embrace NonDuality, mainly because they hold Separation (duality) quite dear. For if there were no separation between one person and the next then we could not hate the next person, or war with him, or steal from him, and we would have to share our beloved possessions if needed. Gruesome thoughts for the Dualists. Do you see that Oneness, do unto to others as you would wish they did unto you, love your neighbor as you love yourself, love your enemy, NonDuality, is what all the Wise Teachers taught ? Would they teach it to us if it were not that we should do it ?
IN/AS Eternal Infinite anew Moment (Oneness) is like Observing with no Observer, or Experiencing without an Experiencer, or Hearing without Hearing. Likened somewhat to the eyeball, it sees without knowing or understanding that it sees and it can not even see itself seeing. So the eyeball does not exist to the eyeball but it still sees. So too, IN/AS Eternal Infinite anew Moment (Oneness) is like being there but not being there. That is why I stress *IN/AS* and *BEing* -- WE are the Experience that we are Experiencing. And do not get hung up on the finger here {8->
Does she "Realize" that there is a possibility that she too is focussing too much attention on the finger ? As I said, IN/AS Oneness there is not even One but rather only IS (ISness).
->Basically what she was saying was -- you cannot "find" ->that which is not "lost". Oh duh!
Again, quite True. We are what we Seek, yet always look in the wrong places. We are conditioned to *look* outside ourself to *find* what we are conditioned to think is our Salvation or Enlightenment or Awakening, when all the time all we had to do is look into the Mirror (the Mirror of Truth). The Mirror of Truth does not reveal who we ARE but rather who we ARE-NOT. And by seeing the conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons that we have become (who we are not), and doing whatever it takes to rid ourself of such defiling aspects, we ARE who we ARE. Odd thing is, as we let go of all of those conditioned notions as we spot them in our Reflection in the Mirror of Truth, polish the Mirror to Perfection as it is called, the Reflection is Void or Nothing. For you see, THEN you ARE the Mirror.
->So the saga continues...another layer of skin peeled off ->my ol' onion.
As a final note, NonDualism or Oneness is not in *word* or Talk but rather in BEing or Walking. Most so called NonDualists Talk the Talk yet have never Walked Zoroaster's Flame to purge themselves of the very defilements that Cloud their Way so they only partially Walk the Walk (limp along by intellect). None of them have followed Arjuna into Battle. None of them have gone through the Torturous and Painful Purging of all their conditioned programs. So as they Talk their Talk we must *read between the lines* and *between the words* to discern whether they actually Walk that Talk.
Subject: Re: Duality ?
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:31:43 -0600
Hi Olga, Ej, and all
you asked: IF we are to be in a totally awakened state 24/7 - being ONLY in the here/now at all times totally aware and awake..... How would I get my dishes done ? Or get ready to go to work ? Or make sure my family is fed ?
What you are doing in the moment is *what is*. Did not the zen master say, "When walking walk; when eating eat; when sleeping sleep......"
going on you wrote: "Think about it - all of those activities and more are based on past/future concepts. There is a pile of dirty dishes in my sink. "
Indeed. The mind is a tool so you can do the dishes and program the computer and type. What is the concept when doing dishes? If you are doing the dishes, be mindful and do the dishes. That is being in the moment, doing what is to be done in the moment.
Not being in the moment might be focusing on the mess the kids made, how they always leave food on the plates and how rude that is, fantasizing about how the day at work will be tomorrow, singing to the song on the radio while the fantasy of being a rock star plays out.... You might find it difficult to do the dishes well at that point with your mind here there and everywhere.
you wrote: In the NOW - oh yes - beautiful dirty dishes - let me enjoy the architecture of different sizes and colors played against the white porcelain sink. You are so radiant my beautiful dirty dishes - I am really enjoying you."
That sounds like lots of evaluative judgements and experiences. There is an "I", enjoying dishes. Where is this "I"? Who is it that sees the "I" appreciating the radiant dirty dishes?
Then REALITY intrudes [future thought] - IF I don't do these d* dishes, my family won't have clean plates to eat off tonight .... [past] and I know if I serve them food on these they are full of germs and my family is apt to get sick. Which reminds me [past] I did not get any milk when I was at the store ...... calling son [future], hey kid run down to the corner and get us a gallon of milk please, so you kids will have something to drink at dinner - while I think about [future] of doing these dishes and [future] starting dinner ... now let me see [past] what do I have in the cupboard....
In the moment, mindfully doing dishes. In the moment making arrangements to make dinner, in the moment asking for someone to go get milk. Paying attention, mindfully being in the moment..... the mind is a tool. Knoweldge and information are tools. Use them when you need them but do not confuse them for you. You are not the mind, you are not that knowledge. Those things arise in mind when needed and slip away when not. Being in the moment is not phasing out into some bliss state where you no longer interact with the world. That is a conditioning that you have about what you think awakening is.
The dinner may be going to occur in the future, but you are making it mindfully in the moment, moment by moment right now. You remember in the moment that you bought Chef boy ardee and get the can. That is what is in the moment. You remember where the can opener is, pick it up, mindfully in the moment open the can. Doing what is, as it is, in the ever present now.
Some conditionings, such as how to use the can opener, or type are simply learning that facilitates moving through the world. Other conditionings, like believing this or that, or that people must treat you some way, or you must do this or that to feel secure, or wear this or that, or what you think awakening is, these are conditionings that are in the past, that prevent you from being fully in the now.
you also wrote: "I know I am being absurd here, but sometimes it takes the ridiculous to make a point :)) There's got to be a reason why we live in a world of duality. And even though I KNOW its illusion, because it is relative and based on my perceptions which are based on my beliefs - there is a reason to be IN this world, though we do try not be be OF it. I have had a lot of 'otherworld' experiences in glimpses, as I said on the other list, I call them Kodak Moments.... I believe they are there as 'markers' .. yes I understand completely that measuring against anything constitutes duality *grin*... "
Do not confuse experiences with being in the now. Experiences come and go, they arise and fall in the background of awareness.
you also wrote: "I am NOT saying these markers in any sense make me better/worse than you or the next guy. I am simply saying for ME, these markers are a carrot if you will, keeping me going when the sky falls as it is apt to occasionally. "
Going where :) Farmers use carrots on a stick to trick donkeys into following the path they set for them. Markers are simply the experience in that moment. Eating a sandwich is the experience in the moment. In the moment what you are doing is the path, there is no where else to go, just what is, as it is.
Have fun, Hee haw.
Subject: Re: Duality ?
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:05:23 -0800
perfect Vinny....now deep bow wow to you! Namaste and Zikr...
Subject: Re: Duality ?
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 04:33:41 GMT
Greetings Olga, you wrote: ->Nice place you have here, thank you for inviting me.
Glad you could make it, and glad that you joined in. But..... the Community is no more MY place than any other member here, including you now that you are a member of the Community. Just one big happy family Enjoying OUR Home and each other {8->
->I have absolutely no quarrel with your analysis below - but I do have a ->question and/or comment.
Answers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a few bucks Answers Requiring Thought . . . . a few more bucks CORRECT Answers . . . . . . . . . . . many bucks Dumb Looks Are Still FREE
->IF we are to be in a totally awakened state 24/7 - being ONLY in the here/now ->at all times totally aware and awake..... -> ->How would I get my dishes done ?
Do them.
->Or get ready to go to work ?
Get ready.
->Or make sure my family is fed ?
Make sure.
->Think about it - all of those activities and more are based on past/future ->concepts.
Think about it -- no activities are based on anything. There is Doing, which is inherent in manifested form, but there really is no Doer. There is a Moment, as Eternally Infinitely anew as it may BE, and there is activity IN/AS that Moment. But it is the conditioned modus operandi that makes us *think* that WE have the volition or choice to Do something. That is, when we let go of the conditioned notions we are left with simply doing whatever it is that needs doing. If it happens to be doing dishes or getting ready for work or making sure that your family is fed, you simply do it because that is what there is to do. Do THAT Moment. Without projecting any foolish notions of past or future into/onto that Doing. Awakening, IN/AS Eternal Infinite Moment continuously is not about sitting in a cave somewhere but rather in Living Life AS it IS without the projected conditioned notions.
->There is a pile of dirty dishes in my sink.
No, there is a pile of dishes to be done. There is getting ready for work to be done. There is making sure that your family is fed to be done. Not even considering the task, *Just Doing It*. As said in my reply to Oren, Doing it without considering that you are Doing it or that it is even getting done. There is much to Do and it gets Done but we invest nothing into this Doing. It is not OUR sink, of OUR dirty dishes, that WE have to do, but rather there you are and there are dishes to be done and so you do them. That is, our Attention must be on the task and not on our projected notion *about* the task or that it is *our* task. You are there physically but not there psychologically.
->In the NOW - oh yes - beautiful dirty dishes - let me enjoy the architecture of ->different sizes and colors played against the white porcelain sink. You are so ->radiant my beautiful dirty dishes - I am really enjoying you. -> ->This could go on for many a "now" :))
*Roaring Laughter* As said above, do not pay attention to anything *about* the task but rather simply do the task unconsciously as though the task was getting done by some unseen force. YOU are Doing nothing, and THEY are nothing to Do -- they are there and you are there so you do them. Unconsciously Do as though nothing is being Done is a most Meditative practice (Doing). It is all in what you are clinging to, the Doing or the Doer Doing the Doing or both. Awakening, IN/AS Eternal Infinite Moment (Oneness) there is Doing to be Done and it gets Done. We care not *what* and we care not *who*. This is what is meant when NonDualists say "Nothing to Do and no one to Do it". For there is Doing and someone has to Do it, but we must not *consider* either.
->Then REALITY intrudes [future thought] - IF I don't do these d* dishes, my ->family won't have clean plates to eat off tonight .... [past] and I know if I ->serve them food on these they are full of germs and my family is apt to get ->sick.
Conditioned thoughts will arise, yet IN/AS the Moment the mind is Silent so arising thoughts come and go there merry way without us paying any attention to them. As said, doing dishes can be a most Meditative practice.
->Which reminds me [past] I did not get any milk when I was at the store ...... ->calling son [future], hey kid run down to the corner and get us a gallon of ->milk please, so you kids will have something to drink at dinner - while I think ->about [future] of doing these dishes and [future] starting dinner ... now let ->me see [past] what do I have in the cupboard....
You are *placing* events in a past and a future that are in neither place, but rather is taking place right IN/AS the Moment that they occur. You are talking yourself out of looking at these occurrences (these Doings) AS they ARE. Sleeping, we always have to categorize and conceptualize everything. Awakening, we simply Do what is to be Done and think what needs to be thought. Oh yes, there is even thought in Awakening. But not thoughts that arise automatically, rather thoughts that are needed IN/AS functionality IN/AS the Moment. Do you see the difference ?
->I know I am being absurd here, but sometimes it takes the ridiculous to make a ->point :))
The Point is that there is no Point. That is, we simply Do what needs Done and let it go at that. Not a dime invested {8->
->There's got to be a reason why we live in a world of duality. And even though I ->KNOW its illusion, because it is relative and based on my perceptions which are ->based on my beliefs - there is a reason to be IN this world, though we do try ->not be be OF it.
We do not live in a world of Duality, we simply ARE the world. When we see the world that we are IN we are conditioned to separate ourself from all else that is also IN the world. When we do not see this Multiplicity as a Unity we see ourself as a place holder and one who can possess whatever is in that place. So we can have *our* truth and *our* reality and what we *want* and what we want to *take* form perhaps another. Other than that, the so called "reason" that we are here is simply a result of Evolving/Involving manifested form. Now, we can theorize and conceptualize and intellectualize and rationalize "what's it all about", but you know, it really does not matter much. What matters is what it is all about *Right NOW* this very instant Present Eternal Infinite Moment. When we get to THAT point we Understand/Realize/Recognize the rest.
->I have had a lot of 'otherworld' experiences in glimpses, as I said on the ->other list, I call them Kodak Moments.... I believe they are there as ->'markers' .. yes I understand completely that measuring against anything ->constitutes duality *grin*...
Not so much as "markers" Dear Friend, but rather *confirmations* that there is such a state of BEing as NonDuality. And once one has one of those "Kodak Moments" one will not be able to blank that out completely, not be able to ever close that door completely. So what is one to do but GO FOR IT ! JUMP ! LET GO !
->I am NOT saying these markers in any sense make me better/worse than you or ->the next guy. I am simply saying for ME, these markers are a carrot if you ->will, keeping me going when the sky falls as it is apt to occasionally.
*Deep Bow*
Subject: conditioning and dogs
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 06:53:15 -0800
Hi Community: Recently I got a new pet bowl with self feeding water dish for my dog, Amy. Well the water dish was unacceptable to my dog, cause it made bubbling noises when she drank out of it and it scared her so much that she would not drink out of the bowl or even her old bowl anymore. She trembled and had a fit everytime I tried to get her to drink. This went on a few days. The only thing she would do would go out and lick the ice. Eventually I got her to drink out of her dish by throwing in some pieces of crackers into her bowl which she would stick her head in and pull out quickly. She soon learned that the water was not going to speak back to her (bubble and spit, tee hee) and did not avoid all to gether. She still needs some incentive to get near her bowl but before she would get the hell away hiding in her bed rm. If its this hard for a dog to get past conditioning, think about why it is such a struggle for all of us. Mettadigitalis,
Subject: A Reminder
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 05:38:38 -0700
I came into this world with nothing (material) and leave this world with nothing (material) ... what lies inbetween is experience, and, IN the experience IS when I AM IN THE MOMENT.
Subject: Re: conditioning and dogs
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 15:06:01 GMT
Greetings Jacquie, you wrote: ->Recently I got a new pet bowl with self feeding water dish for my dog, ->Amy. Well the water dish was unacceptable to my dog, cause it made ->bubbling noises when she drank out of it and it scared her so much that ->she would not drink out of the bowl or even her old bowl anymore. She ->trembled and had a fit everytime I tried to get her to drink. This went ->on a few days. The only thing she would do would go out and lick the ->ice. Eventually I got her to drink out of her dish by throwing in some ->pieces of crackers into her bowl which she would stick her head in and ->pull out quickly. She soon learned that the water was not going to speak ->back to her (bubble and spit, tee hee) and did not avoid all to gether. ->She still needs some incentive to get near her bowl but before she would ->get the hell away hiding in her bed rm. If its this hard for a dog to ->get past conditioning, think about why it is such a struggle for all of ->us.
Good example. Seems that the smarter we get the dumber we are {8->
"In order to reach the final goal of freeing oneself of suffering, it is not enough to just understand the Essential Universal Truths if we don't apply them in our daily lives. We must use daily cultivation to slowly modify our body and mind." -- Heart Sutra
"Health is the greatest possession. Contentment is the greatest treasure. Confidence is the greatest friend. NIRVANA is the greatest joy." -- The Dhammapada
"We understand why children are afraid of darkness, but why are men afraid of light?" -- Plato
Subject: Re: Just blabbing
From: Jacquie Weller <Well333@turbonet.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:12:59 -0800
Hi Sharlene: i do remember your lost of Grandchild as it happened to me too...so I do understand. Now my daughter is pregnant too and expecting in Sept. I have two daughters and four grandchildren with one more on the way.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:06:59 GMT
Greetings Ye Community,
Recently Ray said: "Look at who rules the world of mankind. Are they not the conditioned Intellectuals ? Are they not the worshippers of the "false god of conditioned knowledge" ? Are they not the organizationists and religionists and conceptualizers and rationalizers ? Now do we understand the meaning of the "Blind Leading the Blind" ?"
*Deep Bow* Ray. Are we not followers of these so called Sacred Authorities ? Authenticated by our very own conditioned notions ? Beguiled by some sense of glimpsing our seeming True Nature ? Thinking that these self-appointed authorities can by word or even deed transmit their seeming Wisdom to us via some osmosis ? When they give a party and no one shows up, would there still be a party ? This too must pass. No ?
Subject: Just blabbing
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:20:18 -0800
Good morning all,
I thought I witnessed a breakthrough, maybe it was a slight one. Bro went again through withdrawal,experienced another seizure, and scared the hell out us. Rushed him to the hospital where they checked him out, gave him a B12, a shot of valium and released him with the instructions to go his own Doc. Which of course didn't happen. He did phone for an appointment at drug and alcohol, and as usual, no one was there but an answering machine and they never did call back. He also called his boss, told him he had a bad drinking problem and was working on it now. His job is to start again in a couple of weeks and he would be in on Monday to discuss this with him. I figured maybe he had a breakthrough just admitting the problem as it was the first time I heard him admit it to anyone but me. Then yesterday, he took a walk, by supper time was have wasted again. In his mind, I am thinking that as soon as his head clears, he figures he can control it. I could smell it on his breath but never said anything to him. By bedtime last night, another 2 mickeys had been consumed. From past experience, one never gets excited when a drinker quits for a day or two, if they don't carry out the routine of asking for help from those who can help. When he couldn't get through to drug and alcohol he could have called someone from AA and had them help him through the wanting of the next drink or called his doctor for medication to tide him over. So will see what excuse he comes up with today. Whatever, seems to become my standard answer. I just say, ask for help while people are still willing to give it.
The snow has gone, spring is here, a few crocus are in bloom, days of heavy jackets are gone.
Got a call from Rhonda with the news that she is due in November. Yahoo, a new grandbaby for Gramma to love. Not sure if anyone remembers but a couple of years ago we lost a little girl at four months. She was no bigger than my hand. Although she never took a breath she gave us an experience that changed many things in our lives. It is hard to recall that experience without re-experiencing the love that she brought with her. It was like the room was wrapped in love. Hard to explain the experience so will leave it at that.
Spring- the time for new beginnings.
Peace and blessings to all
Subject: Re: Just blabbing
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:54:56 -0800
>Hi Jacquie, >i do remember your lost of Grandchild as it happened to me too...so I do >understand. Now my daughter is pregnant too and expecting in Sept. I have two >daughters and four grandchildren with one more on the way.
You are so lucky, and so am I. We are thinking it would be nice to have a little boy baby, everyone has had girls for so long that we aren't sure anyone knows how to make a boy baby. Plus, the chances of a dark haired baby may come with this one. All others are fair. Not that it matters in the end as all are welcomed. Besides I rather like being a Grandmom.
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