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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ May - Page 1 ~
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Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 07:31:13 -0700
Good Morning everyone,
>EJ wrote: >Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: > >->What do I do now...... > Whatever needs to be done.
S: Thats a good answer. The sword of truth has been thrown.
>->Do I work for money helping out those who an extra hand, or do I continue >->helping those who need a hand and can't afford to pay? > > Both.
S: I see, is there more hours in day than I know about?
>->Or do I work for money and help others after the work day is over? Then >->what happens when I wish I could clone myself and do it all? >Clone yourself.
S: How?
>->Help...my cup is over flowing with choices...... >Get a bigger cup.
S: LOL, you are funny
> I am aware of no days that are not {8->
S: True.
Brother arrives home from detox today. We hold no expectations of the future and have no plans making a big deal out of his return. He's been sober for a week before and always fell back into drinking mode. What we are doing is totally changing his living space. I painted the walls and ceiling with white paint and Mom got a light carpet put in. We think maybe if he won't find the light we will bring the light to his surroundings. He starts work this week and his boss has him in counselling twice a week, AA once a week, and he needs to supply proof of attendance or lose his job. He is well liked in his work place, and his boss doesn't want to lose him to alcohol. Maybe he can see past his addiction and realize that people do care for him and are willing to stand by him while he works on himself.
Just a little story for those who like stories. I was up helping my daughter yesterday for an hour and her sister in law was there with her children. When I walked in Reanna comes running up to me to give me a hug. Then Sarah, her little cousin wanted one. Reanna says, she is my Gramma not yours. I said Sarah can have a hug too as Gramma's heart is big enough to love many people. Then Sarah says, do you love Grampa Steve too?(Which is my girls Father) and I answered, yes of course I love Grampa Steve too. I walked away laughing and wondering where that came from. Out of the mouths of babes, this girl is 4.
I feel compassion for this man, he is going through a personal hell of his own making right now trying to work out a settlement with his latest ex. Thats another story. But from the fear of not wanting to be alone, he is moving to Quesnel, to live with a woman that he doesn't love because she has a good income. He calls her his Hillbilly woman. There are many influences in that relationship that spells disaster already but he is doing it anyway. Hoping that he has the influence to change her and the other people that live there. Not a good start. I wish him well. We have talked about it many times but insists on doing it anyway thinking love may come in the future. I am amazed what people do out of desperation and fear. I can also recognize it through my own experiences of the past. This new woman looks like his latest ex but older. The mentality is that they can save each other. She is going to save his health through herbs and he is going her by making her less laid back and more organized. He has all these plans that he hasn't shared with her yet. I wish them well......
Enough babble for the day, time to get off my butt and do what must be done in the next moment, which is work. Suppose to paint a porch but too wet yet, so will help around here and see if the clouds lift. I think my posts sometimes sound to much like personal correspondence, which must be pretty boring for most. I'll work on that.....
Good day to all,
Subject: Re:
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 09:11:55 -0500
Hi EJ and all;
wombat had shared" ->:-))) It would be easier for word framing purposes, if instead I said this ->is "my truth" I just simply said, "this is how I see it" - actually I don't ->*own* anything :)
and EJ replied: " Do you not see the ownership when you say "this is how *I* see it" ? Regardless of what word you use, if YOU have anything to do with it YOU are taking possession of it whether you *see* it that way or not. For this ownership is what you project by using any word referring to YOU."
:) All over the web, I see people talking about "my truth", "my guides", "my teachings", "my journey", "my" progress, "my" expereinces. It appeared to be the same thing you speak of here..... possessions, emotional possessions. No different than "my car", or "my pants", or "my tv". The illusion is that somehow something "spiritual" is different. But it is the same dance, different tune. Perhaps even "my self" fits there as well.........
Take gentle care;
In metta.
Vinny The past should not be followed after and the future not desired; what is past is dead and gone and the future is yet to come. Majjhima Nikaya III, 131
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 19:44:59 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->I think my posts sometimes sound to much like personal correspondence, ->which must be pretty boring for most. I'll work on that.....
In this Oasis it is considered a "Journal", a Cleansing, a Healing, if not for others for ourself. A *Shaking Off of the Negative* to continue on IN/AS Positive. Thank you for Sharing.
->Good day to all,
And the Top of the day to you as well {8->
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 22:40:48 +0200
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org> To: <MissionOfLight-l@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 3:53 PM Subject: Bodhisattva
Dear Shar & Bodhi Magnificent post from the both of you !! Wombat:)
Subject: Re:
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:43:22 +0200
Dear E.J. I am trying to get my head around this post of yours. I have read it already 3 times, but I will have to try again when I have less noise around me and can concentrate on the words, forgive me if I answer it a bit later please ! Kindest regards,
Subject: Re: the moment, the carney guy & the pony
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:18:13 +0200
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 10:44 PM Subject: the moment, the carney guy & the pony
Hi Volker:) Lovely post ! snipped reverently to... > or just jump on the pony that's in front of me > tho my favourite it the red one - > ariadne's thread she is called...
Ariadne's thread being red, .... that be the red thread of your life? Gerhard on the wall, like Humpty Dumpty? Or is this a serious German Surname? Just curious. Now does that mean I am asleep, awake or do we have another time for curious ;-)? greetings Wombat:)
Subject: Re:
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 19:29:58 GMT
Greetings Vincent, you wrote: ->:) All over the web, I see people talking about "my truth", "my guides", ->"my teachings", "my journey", "my" progress, "my" expereinces. It appeared ->to be the same thing you speak of here..... possessions, emotional ->possessions. No different than "my car", or "my pants", or "my tv". The ->illusion is that somehow something "spiritual" is different. But it is the ->same dance, different tune. Perhaps even "my self" fits there as ->well.........
Not only all over the web, but also all thought our everyday interactions. The Sleeping have this conditioned need to *Possess*, to cling to everything as some security blanket (as faulty as it may be). And you are correct, even "my self" is yet another form of possessing. Who is "my" ? Who is "my self" ? In language many times we have to use such words, but we have to Realize that not even the words are our's but rather merely tools to express our illness. "Spiritual" is just another word to be distorted, as "Divine". It is all about what we let go and not what we continue to gather. And the tough part is Understanding the difference both in what we present and in what others present.
A Wise Observation Dear Friend, thank you for sharing this.
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 22:05:06 +0200
From: "E.J." <ejLight@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 5:02 AM Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
snipped with reverence:)
but rather that "my eyes > are horizontal and my nose is vertical". *** I have a picture mind, that would make a cross wouldn't it LOL ;-)? !
> ->Happy days ** and to you 2.
> I am aware of no days that are not {8-> ** but it's still nice you remind us.
Subject: Re:
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 22:24:59 +0200
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 4:11 PM Subject: Re:
Hi Vinny:)
> :) All over the web, I see people talking about "my truth", "my guides", > "my teachings", "my journey", "my" progress, "my" expereinces. *** yes, that's sure true enough. The funny thing is of course, that ultimately, you are me and I am you, so perhaps we should go around saying *we* :)
> It appeared to be the same thing you speak of here..... possessions, emotional > possessions. No different than "my car", or "my pants", or "my tv". The > illusion is that somehow something "spiritual" is different. But it is the > same dance, different tune. Perhaps even "my self" fits there as > well......... *** Yes indeed. I have observed the same thing, how spiritual and spirit can get put on a backburner. And then taken out of a draw to be paraded or somesuch, either you are or you aren't, .... there ....that word *you* again, either *we* are or *we* aren't :) - ahh but spirit is sought within not without, you know that better than most. So would that lead to thinking that if we are each other, that spirit IS within and without .... well all that being said Vinny, how about *YOU* go on *MY* diet for * US* .... LOL <wg> nah, enjoying myself ... erh *us* ... round and round the mulberry bush, the ragged rascal ran LOL ;-) greetings- Wombat:) XXX
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 22:39:37 +0200
From: "Sharlene" <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
> Good Morning everyone, ** Hiyuh Shar:)
> >->What do I do now...... > > Whatever needs to be done.
> S: Thats a good answer. The sword of truth has been thrown. ** ;-) hear, hear counts for me too :)
> >->Do I work for money helping out those who an extra hand, or do I continue > >->helping those who need a hand and can't afford to pay?
> > Both. ** I'm with you, yes indeed, both:)
> S: I see, is there more hours in day than I know about? ** no, merely that maybe a combination is possible too, like if one job gets paid, or there is sufficient to sustain you (you decide how much that might be) you can maybe do something for free. perhaps this is what Bodhi meant. I'm sure Bodhi can write that him/herself:)
> >->Or do I work for money and help others after the work day is over? Then > >->what happens when I wish I could clone myself and do it all? > >Clone yourself.
> S: How? ** I have to go back to school now <g>
> >->Help...my cup is over flowing with choices...... > >Get a bigger cup.
> S: LOL, you are funny ** priceless :-)!
> > I am aware of no days that are not {8-> > S: True. ** Yup.
> Brother arrives home from detox today. ** Lovely !
> He's been sober for a week before and always fell back into drinking mode. ** Has he ever been able to figure out what triggers it? Or does he just like the taste? if it's merely the taste, there are some excellent de-alcoholised wines going these days, really nice taste !
> What we are doing is totally changing his living space. I painted the walls > and ceiling with white paint and Mom got a light carpet put in. We think > maybe if he won't find the light we will bring the light to his surroundings. ** This is such a loving & caring thing to do !
> He starts work this week and his boss has him in counselling twice a week, > AA once a week, and he needs to supply proof of attendance or lose his job. ** How do you think he might respond to that?
> He is well liked in his work place, and his boss doesn't want to lose him > to alcohol. Maybe he can see past his addiction and realize that people do > care for him and are willing to stand by him while he works on himself. ** I wish him well in his sober state, that he may see that this is so.
snipped with care and reverence: > I think my posts sometimes sound to much like personal correspondence, > which must be pretty boring for most. I'll work on that..... ** please don't, it's good to be reminded of everyday life too. It teaches us perhaps what we are here for, how to apply what we learn here. Much love Shar !
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:44:47 -0700
Your posts do not sound boring. This is where practical application of whatever we own or don't own <sigh> comes into play. This is Life. This is one person sharing their experience with another which is FAR more interesting to me than philosophical discussions, platitudes or 'high brow' conversations. When one is in the trenches of life sometimes one's personal take on a similar experience means more than all the intellectualizing out there:o)
Thanks for sharing
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 11:13:12 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
I think my posts sometimes sound to much like personal correspondence, which must be pretty boring for most. I'll work on that.....
__________________
Hi Sharlene!
Is your post to please the reader, or to express what is you!
You are Sharlene, and that IS your style. Please don't change (for me), unless you need to change for yourself.
(((Love)))
Subject: Re: The use of language
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 11:03:16 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Perhaps we can come up with a spiritual language that is understood . . . lol!
I am reading Deepak Chopra ~ THE ANGEL IS NEAR, and it is quite humorous when it touches on communication between the "capture"/angel and the humans. In this world on this planet, the best communication is with exemplarity. However (unfortunately) for most (children) growing up to adulthood, the communication has been - "Don't do as I do, just do as I say!" The result is the chaos we see (today), especially among the young.
Awakening - I am reminded that it all starts with me, here now - in this moment. Letting go the conditioning is the key, however, it is attached to us, or we to it, with crazy glue .... lol!
Peace to all ... (((Love)))
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:26:32 EDT
In a message dated 5/1/01 9:30:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, vinny@angelreiki.nu writes:
<< " Do you not see the ownership when you say "this is how *I* see it" ? Regardless of what word you use, if YOU have anything to do with it YOU are taking possession of it whether you *see* it that way or not. For this ownership is what you project by using any word referring to YOU." >> Sorry to ask such a basic question but I would really like to know what is wrong with 'owning' an opinion....or anything else for that matter within reason and balance. We seem to be so dang worried about creating karma by attachment that I think people confuse NON attachment with DE-tachment.
Subject: crete, minos & hypnology
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 19:05:16 -0700
hi wombat,
you state that ariadne's thread was red? in my besotted mind, i kant remember... wuz it truly red? interesting...
what i sed wuz that the pony that wuz read... the sign above the pony's head said: Ariadne's Thread - i took it to be the pony's name... the yellow pony was called Minos... the green one before Minos was Theseus, & so on & so forth...
the read thread of my life - what means this???
gerhardt auf der mauer was a childhood friend who, for reasons still unknown, died in his sleep at the age of 92...
as for being awake, asleep, or even hypnogogic, i think these are relative terms: one can be more asleep, less asleep, more awake, less awake & even somewhere in between...
by the whey, wombat, i'm in the process of researching hypnology while i'm writing this - will keep u posted on what i find...
'do we have another time for curious' - what means this?
the blanket between sleeping & waking?
hopefully, this too i can uncover by my research on hypnology...
nice chatting with u, what's on tap, maynard g krebs
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 02:36:57 GMT
Greetings Renee, you wrote: ->Sorry to ask such a basic question but I would really like to know what is ->wrong with 'owning' an opinion....or anything else for that matter within ->reason and balance. We seem to be so dang worried about creating karma by ->attachment that I think people confuse NON attachment with DE-tachment.
First, "opinion" is not Truth but rather our particular rendition of it contrived solely via our conditioned judgmental notions of this and that. A make believe story to comfort a make believe notion. Hence, of what use is an opinion ? Do they end wars ? Do they end conflict or strife or greed or corruption or lessen our Suffering in any way ? In fact, they are one of the very root Causes of our Suffering. So why cling to them ? Like butts, the best thing we can do with them is to sit on them {8->
Now, *ownership*. What is at the root of war ? What is at the root of conflict and greed and selfishness and corruption and crime ? The *Desire* to *Possess* or to *Own*. *Things* are nice conveniences to use at any given Moment, yet when they mean more than Peace and Compassion and Empathy and Awakening they rob us of the same. It is not actually in the possessing of something, but rather in the desire to possess or own that causes our Suffering. Even the homeless or addict on the streets possesses something, that is not the concern. What we have to let go of is the conditioned notion that possessing something is worth warring or conflicting or cheating or stealing or killing another in order to *have* that something. It is that Desire to possess or to own that controls and manipulates our thinking and behavior. We even try to possess or own each other. Eloquently we say "possessive" yet what we *mean* is "slavery". And who is the SlaveMaster ? The Grand Trickster the conditioned programmed modus operandi.
You see, when we let go of the conditioned programmed Veils that cloud our Remembering the True Nature we ARE, there are no *opinions* but rather What-IS. There is no Desire to possess or own anything, but rather BEing What-IS. Since Truth and Reality is not our's to have and to hold, everyone shares in it quite freely. And the only Real important thing is that Peace and Compassion and Empathy are established. And some how war and conflict and greed and selfishness and corruption do not blend well with Peace and Compassion and Empathy. We mostly Talk the Talk of Peace and Compassion and Empathy, but very few actually Walk it.
Many have a strange notion that Awakening is going off in the mountains or dwelling in a cave or retreat somewhere. Sure, such is good solid ground for Awakening, but that is not where greater humanity is and it is greater humanity who must start Awakening. No, Awakening must start right where you ARE right NOW and emanated into every aspect of your life whatever that life might be. So you are correct, we must be UNattached not DEtached. How do you council those in your case load ? Your education and computer data base and no doubt sympathy and understanding ? Could you be more effective or more helpful if your Realization of your True Nature could meld with the True Nature of those you council ? And through this True Nature Embrace, could you then Truly Understand their needs ? For I dare say that those in your case load Need more than a handout and/or rehabilitation.
No, it is not suggested that you can Save The World by letting go of the Desire of possession or ownership. It is suggested that by Saving yourself that you could better Help others to Save themselves.
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:49:43 -0500
Hi Me;
a suggestion.....
take all that theory of attachment and karma and throw it all away. It appears to have become another conditioned belief that you are using to attempt to control reality. That which becomes a stumbling block to awakening is like a millstone around the neck while being tossed into the sea..... cut the rope, be free......
what is wrong with "owning an opinion", you ask.........
"owning" is quite the buzzword among the new age crowd and pseudo-therapy self help books.
When you "own" an opinion, that means you have beliefs that you are basing that opinion on. If you watch yourself, really watch when you do this, you might notice that you see *what is*, in the moment. You then drop into the memory store, that sum of conditioned beliefs that you have defined as "me", evaluate what happened, judge it based on your beliefs and then "own" your opinion of it, having judged it against how you view the world and how your beliefs tell you it should be.
Sound familiar?, it should, it is what you do all the time
What you are using to evaluate that "ownership" is the collection of experiences that you are defining as yourself. Experiences, frozen in time, in exactly the way you want and presently need them to be, in order to organize your world, as you attempt to define it in your own image and likeness.
you asked: >I would really like to know what is > wrong with 'owning' an opinion....or anything else for that matter within > reason and balance.
Reason is your minds attempt to force your version of what you want to be on *what is*. Balance is whatever you believe it to be. Using conditioned notions to judge the world is simply more of the same sleeping game. Mind Candy that the mind uses to keep you asleep. Sometimes it is sweet, often times it is sour.
what is wrong with "owning an opinion", you ask.........
why nothing at all, assuming that you wish to stay asleep.
Why not do something radical, unbelievable. See the opinions arise in the mind. Let them all go. What pray tell, could be left??????
Have fun, take gentle care;
Vinny http://angelreiki.nu
One by one, little by little, moment by moment, a wise man should remove his own impurities, as a smith removes his dross from silver.
Dhammapada 239
Subject: talking in My sleep
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:38:33 -0700
larazza sed: < Sorry to ask such a basic question but I would really like to know what is wrong with owning an opinion... or anything else for that matter within reason and balance. We seem to be so dang worried about creating karma by attachment that I think people confuse NON attachment with DE-tachment.>
in reply to vinnie who sed: < Do you not see the ownership when you say "this is how *I* see it" ? Regardless of what word you use, if YOU have anything to do with it YOU are taking possession of it whether you *see* it that way or not. For this ownership is what you project by using any word referring to YOU."
holy mackeral, how can (pardon my french)You people kommunikate without getting tangled up in (exkuse me) Your shoelaces???
at the risk of inkurring ray's WHACK again, may i offer that, depending on the gradient of sleep or awakeness, our ability to See is often greater than our ability to Do...
even in my addled mentation, i am still aware or rather, awake enuff to REAL-ize the Fakt that i am asleep... i offer that this realization must be REAL-ized intellektually, emotionally & most importantly, in ESSENCE - becuz -
ESSENCE IS THE MOMENT
while everything else is merely the accoutrement of the personality, false or true, more or less asleep or awake...
if i haven't been WHACKED silly by now, i may cum back with a post on Devas & Elementals... as well as whatever my research on hypnology may dig up...
respektfully, kaspar hauser
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 00:42:25 EDT
I think that one of the big problems I have via the Net is 'semantics' because often times I think people are coming from the same place but split hairs on keywords when they really mean the same thing on some level. Comments below:
In a message dated 5/1/01 7:42:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ejLight@Light-Mission.org writes:
<< Since Truth and Reality is not our's to have and to hold, everyone shares in it quite freely.
[me] Who says? Who says that both can't co-exist together? I can have and hold Truth and Reality in some form and so can you and we can even share in that truth and reality together. It IS something that IS...it's just THERE...waiting to be held and be-held by all of us which to me means 'known'.
When I can reach from a spot within and 'hold' (for lack of a better english word) that feeling in my heart here <holding hand over heart> and then reach over in some way and touch you THERE <holding hand over heart across the known 'reality' of this physical plane> be it by means of love, kindness, empathy or whatever else 'touches' you...then we are not only mutually 'holding' that same feeling for an instant...but we are also 'holding' a certain reality and TRUTH for US in that space and time....know what I mean? Too bad we can't Vulcan mind meld because people could communicate better without the 'words' and semantics getting in the way of pure knowing because in knowing you 'OWN' it for at least a moment...you 'behold' the face of the Beloved and all that she/he encompasses...a little piece of heaven:o) Thou art formless...yet I choose to worship Thee in this form and in this moment with YOU <beaming feeling from heart to heart>
[you] And the only Real important thing is that Peace and Compassion and Empathy are established. And some how war and conflict and greed and selfishness and corruption do not blend well with Peace and Compassion and Empathy. We mostly Talk the Talk of Peace and Compassion and Empathy, but very few actually Walk it.
[me] Very true. I agree. I see this everyday and sorry but I own my total feelings of 'disgust' of others that only know how to SPELL compassion but don't know how to BE compassion.
[you] Many have a strange notion that Awakening is going off in the mountains or dwelling in a cave or retreat somewhere.
[me] I have a favorite saying of "So who is the truly enlightened man...the one who locks himself up in his cave with his books and meditations or the one that walks the streets and gets tested everyday?"
[you] Sure, such is good solid ground for Awakening, but that is not where greater humanity is and it is greater humanity who must start Awakening. No, Awakening must start right where you ARE right NOW and emanated into every aspect of your life whatever that life might be. So you are correct, we must be UNattached not DEtached. How do you council those in your case load ?
[me] >From personal experience:o) After going through years of abuse as a child, and all forms of that abuse...and being homeless as a child as well as parents who were addicted to various substances etc., plus other 'qualifying' experiences in this life, I tell my clients that there is nothing they can't tell me that I either haven't lived or witnessed in my life. I come from direct personal knowledge:o)
[you] Your education and computer data base and no doubt sympathy and understanding ?
[me] I am unusual in this social service field because I do not have a college degree...my experience and on the job experience (in addition to personal experience) slowly moved me up the ladder to this position. Took me a little longer but I enjoyed being in the trenches more so than being in the classroom.
[you] Could you be more effective or more helpful if your Realization of your True Nature could meld with the True Nature of those you council ?
[me] I tell my clients that there IS no difference between us...we are both dependent on the same system. They are put down for being on welfare while I get a paycheck from welfare so how can I see them as being 'different' from me? I just worked the system more effectively and got 'hired' rather than applying for 'aid'. I am very humble in how I approach those who are deemed 'less fortunate' (what does that mean for God's sake?) than myself because I don't see them in that 'way'. We are all lessons for each other. The bum in the street is teaching as big a lesson to passersby as Clinton taught with his sexual escapades and abuse of power in a high office. I see no difference in the 'messages' each one of us sends out to another.
[you] And through this True Nature Embrace, could you then Truly Understand their needs ? For I dare say that those in your case load Need more than a handout and/or rehabilitation.
[me] They get more than a handout or rehabilitation. Much more:o)
[you] No, it is not suggested that you can Save The World by letting go of the Desire of possession or ownership. It is suggested that by Saving yourself that you could better Help others to Save themselves.
[me] I still disagree with the notion that we must be 'saved' or are 'saving' others (how egotistical really....to think we can save ourselves so that now we can go out and be the redeemer to others). I don't see the people that I serve (as a public servant) as anything less or 'more' than myself. I help them identify what they want to do, how they got to where they are at and how they can look up and see that horizon of their dreams....taking positive steps in a better direction that THEY have identified as 'better' in self sufficiency...not 'me' dictating to them what that future IS. We own a mutual look at 'reality' or 'truth' as an evolving process between us...as two people putting our heads together in the trenches on the same path trying to figure it all out one step at a time. Does this make sense to you?
In the Spirit of Discovery....
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 18:49:29 -0700
HI Renee, you wrote: >Your posts do not sound boring. This is where practical application of >whatever we own or don't own <sigh> comes into play. This is Life. This >is one person sharing their experience with another which is FAR more >interesting to me than philosophical discussions, platitudes or 'high >brow' conversations. When one is in the trenches of life sometimes one's >personal take on a similar experience means more than all the >intellectualizing out there:o)
Shar: Yes, similar situations are easy to relate too. I guess I write to see if others have food for thought or share things that worked for them. Sometimes others open up and sometimes they don't. I don't know how to write intellectually..lol, only through experience. Thanks for the reply,
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 21:39:28 -0700
> > > In this Oasis it is considered a "Journal", a Cleansing, a Healing, if >not for others for ourself. A *Shaking Off of the Negative* to continue >on IN/AS Positive. Thank you for Sharing.
That's what is missing, my daily journaling. Hm, sometimes forget to cleanse my thoughts on paper or on the list.
>->Good day to all, >And the Top of the day to you as well {8->
Thank you kind sir.........sometimes I forget to duck when you are brandishing that sword.
Good night
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 19:20:51 -0700
> > >Hi Sharlene!
Hi Gary,,, >Is your post to please the reader, or to express what is you! > You are Sharlene, and that IS your style. Please don't change (for me), > unless you need to change for yourself.
Thanks Gary, I was wondering who I was.lol..... I laughed because I was asked to leave a couple of mail lists because others didn't like my style. But you're right- it''s me. Whoever me is........ About that Deepak book...Share a bit more okay. I have his last one and haven't even read it yet. No time for reading these days it seems. Except a morning Affirmation from the book that our local Yotti (lol) wrote. One day I'll order the new one to sit beside it.
Love and stuff
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 01:00:47 EDT
In a message dated 5/1/01 7:46:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, vinny@angelreiki.nu writes:
<< what is wrong with "owning an opinion", you ask......... why nothing at all, assuming that you wish to stay asleep.
[me] <grin> but to me...YOU are stating an opinion here. This is your opinion...that if I own an opinion...I am somehow asleep. I politely disagree:o)
[you] Why not do something radical, unbelievable. See the opinions arise in the mind. Let them all go. What pray tell, could be left??????
[me] Ok...having been in the trenches for 40 years...this is what I see if we let go of our opinions (standards, principles, ethics and other human deductions)..CHAOS...absolute chaos on a world scale such as it is and becoming. I see people being chastised on all sides for holding what some call 'traditional' values and beliefs and being 'muzzled'....'no you can't disapprove of gays...you can't disapprove of us going after smokers...you MUST forgive Jesse Jackson his indiscretions and let it go....it's ok that Bush cheated in the elections..just roll over and live with it. It's our fault anyway for 'letting' the politicians run the country in the first place" and so what happens? People take more and more liberties...push more and more into a chaotic place and there is less and less civility, REASON...common sense, compassion, dignity. I am not going to stand there and say "I am unattached to this outcome" while some maniac is robbing a store, pushing a button to blow up the world with nuclear weapons or whatever.
The argument you present is NOT something that day to day people can deal with. Most people are not caught up in intellectual 'knowing'...they are in life and death struggles here while our population grows from 6 billion to 7 billion on the planet. What we need is practical spirituality in this world. Something to hang on to within while we try to build a better planet...a better conceived 'future' so that we can all co-exist in some sort of peaceful relations...see? MOST of the world is starving. At least half of the world is illiterate. How many 'slaves' and 'indentured servants' (i.e. children) do we have? I would venture to guess that at least half the world can't even spell 'knowing' and 'owning' in their languages let alone GET the concept. Like get out of the clouds and get back here to planet Earth and live in the here and Now to which you were born, Oh Community of this World, and start doing something to just bring basic 'standards' of decent living to our children and families here. Yes I am opinionated about what I see everyday. I am also human as well as spirit. I don't see it as wrong or 'unenlightened' or 'unawakened'. Not at all. But that's just from my own innerself based on experiences that a lot of people may not live...I dunno. It certainly is the experience that I picked to 'live' in this space and time.
Subject: Re: Ownership/Gary
From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:44:51 -0700
Thank you for understanding what I am trying to say.
Experience in each path is so different....we come from as many different backgrounds as there are people in this world or lights in the sky or ants in the anthill...you know what I mean...LOL. And because we are all so seemingly (not really...but seemingly) different with different views of 'spirit', life, death, pain (is relative), custom, upbringing, physical natures...whatever....then it's often hard to communicate our own reality, truth, view, opinion or however you want to call your seeming 'world'..n'est-ce pas? We all 'know' what we have been through, where we have been...what we are doing now...where we wish to 'go' or not go ...our dreams, hopes, ideals, fears. delusions....etc...but to try to relate back and forth is a REAL challenge <In my humble opinion>. Being an 'in the trench' person here, I see things very differently than some people do and often feel like those that seek to preach from Olympus and feel like they know the way to 'know' are so far removed from my view of 'knowing' and living life that it just ain't funny <grin>. Like get your heads out of the clouds and get back down HERE please! I want to see your eyes when you are talkin'!!
Anyway...comments below:
>>> glr@home.com 08/02/01 12:17AM >>> Hi Renee! I totally agree with you that semantics is a major problem in discussions such as we have here in the Oasis. To borrow your phrasing - I have been in the trenches for 69 years, and I too make my voice heard from the place of personal experience. It was not always like this as I have been very reticence in speaking out before I went into therapy (after my accident). Healing came by way of pealing all the layers of conditioning for over fifty years - much like pealing off layers of an onion.
[me] And I totally agree with that. Really....I understand and am JUST getting to the point the last five years of saying NO MORE. Being a 'no boundary' person for years and years, I realized that I was allowing some of the abuse to happen. I do, disagree though, with some people's karmic view that if you are born into abuse with no boundaries then you CHOSE that path. I happen to think the Universe wants us happy and it's by man's choice and none other....that 'evil' (for lack of a better word) is a chosen script...not something that the other person 'reaped'. I think that's sick and twisted. Excuse ME for being human and opinionated ...NOT! LOL! <laughing out loud>. Children 'should' not be abused. This is NOT acceptable. Nor should anyone else be abused obviously. I could go on and on with this as I'm sure you know where 'we' come from in that space and time that 'we' shared during years of abuse when one is helpless and legally a slave to one's parents or caretakers. What a bunch of crap, ya know? We do have legal slavery all over the world by virtue of birth and blood and I think that stinks. I'm grinning at myself here. Being a double Gemini I have several people in my committee and they all talk at the same time...hehe.
[you] I hear you loud and clear, and within the context of what you are 'saying' I concur with you. However in the battle of words, I suspect that 'meaning' is getting crossed wired in the exchanges. What is being advocated (I'm not sure that this is the right word) here is not that one give up one's 'values & principles' - only to remove those layers of conditioning passed down generation after generation that are steeped in fear, and control for the benefit of greed.
[me] and I agree with this...removing conditioning that the 'all that' group has forced on each generation for controlling purposes ONLY. That is where I am at the last five years. First, realizing that I was raised in what I call a 'brainwashing' atmosphere to the point that it generated automatic green lights for people to just inflict on you whatever they want to inflict. Both are participants...those who say yes by allowing the behavior and those who dictate. Then one realizes that as soon as one says 'no' and means it, another process occurs....one feels like a fort that an opposing force is laying siege TO since those that dictate do not like change. Then one feels one is defensive "this is my sacred space. Trespassing is prohibited." LOL
And then of course, as soon as I learn something, I get this synchronistic relationships that come along of others who are like 'one' step behind me so I'm forever passing the torch. "Oh...I just went through that and this is what I did". Yuck.
[you] You mentioned that you were raised as an abused child; so was I, physically and mentally. To boot, I came through WW2 from age nine to thirteen, keeping one step ahead of the bullets. Death is no stranger to me, nor are, torture, hunger, homeless, cold, wet etc., a list that would fill several pages.
[me] Yup...me too from earliest memories up till the age of 18. Had a break for a year and then went back into more abuse in marriage but on a verbal and mental scale rather than ALL of it (gee...I thought I had improved my lot in life). And the vicious circle of life continued for awhile. I hear ya!
[you] I have lived in and been exposed to most cultures, all varying in what is usually termed "normal" behavior, in other word - "custom". My "formal education" terminated in Grade 6, and what went before was very sporadic. Yet, I consider myself as being very fortunate for having attended the best school possible - the School of Life. The multi facet of this schooling is now (and has been the building) foundation to/for my "Awakening", as is termed here in Mission Of Light.
[me] I, too, come from cultural diversity and have been exposed to many people from a variety of places all my life. I, too, think that the best school IS the School of Life.
[you] What this means for me is that I am no longer the clone of all those people who touched my life giving me "advise for your own good!" When someone says to me "jump!" I no longer reply "how high" as I was conditioned to by all the abuse in my youth and young adult years.
[me] I now call that 'interference'....did I ASK for your advice (to those who feel like they are do gooders)? Then don't interfere in my space with your spontaneous agenda. Give me a freaking break...LOL. Like...I don't want to hear it. If I ask for your advice, then fine if not...then go away thanks. Take your advice with ya. Who asked YOU? <yes...I'm assertive...what can I tell ya...? One gets fed up with 40 years of various sages and swami's of the world each telling you how to run your life. When you can walk on water...I'll think about listening to ya...hehe>
[you] Further - what I came to realize, was that those who gave me the "good advice" - really did it out of their own need to feel comfortable, important, superior; to feed their own lack of self-esteem and loss of their own identity.
[me] YUP YUP
[you] I understand ( as I have said) what you are meaning, and it took me a long time to understand what is being discussed here. At times (less frequently now) I am still haunted by memories of the water torture used by those victorious in war to bring their captives to submissiveness. Very much like what I went through except instead of water, words were used. Pain is pain delivered in any shape or form!
[me] Yes indeedy...brainwashing, CIA tactics, 'unsaid contracts' one is forced into with subtle means without even realizing you are giving away your perceived 'rights' piece by piece. Pain is relative to each individual. A word can be just as devastating if not more so than a 'blow'. Truly. I have heard every form of vindictive and vicious abusive statements, put downs etc. possible. There ain't NUTHIN' left you can say to me that I haven't heard in one way or another.
[you] For me, there is still healing to do, and in each moment, as I discard each layer or part of, I reveal the True Identity of who I AM - once again I am the innocent (not ignorant), fearless "child guru". This is my understanding of the difference between "Sleeping" and "Awakening" in the context of our discussion here.
[me] Well if that's the definition of what is being said here, then I GET IT. If not <sigh> I'm just visiting from another planet and observing the natives <grin>.
Thanks for your wonderful insights and reaching out to 'connect'. I appreciate it:o)
Subject: Re: Bodhisattva
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:36:28 -0700
> > > Good Morning everyone, >** Hiyuh Shar:)
Hi Wombat, How ya doing?
> > S: I see, is there more hours in day than I know about? >** no, merely that maybe a combination is possible too, like if one job gets >paid, or there is sufficient to sustain you (you decide how much that might >be) you can maybe do something for free. perhaps this is what Bodhi meant. >I'm sure Bodhi can write that him/herself:)
S: Sustaining myself seems to not be the issue but time. The jobs I do are also because someone needs an extra pair of hands, knowing they get paid for what I do, they also offer to pay me for my time. Same but different. My Mother still needs help and I also need the time to go down and help my newly pregnant daughter. The one that lost her girl a couple years ago. If I take on to many job jobs, then my time is limited and I already promised to help. The paying jobs seem to be adding up beyond my control. Appears people like my work and it's nice because they just give me a job and walk away knowing it will get done. Which is what I like also. It just gets over whelming at times at the number that request my time now. I hate saying no to any of them but will have to learn how. It's a good thing I enjoy this work thing for it now my fun as well.
> > >Clone yourself. > > > S: How? >** I have to go back to school now <g>
Now that is another plan that could be taken seriously.
> > Brother arrives home from detox today. >** Lovely !
So far so good, still not sure where his mind is. Has an appointment for an evaluation of some sort from someone the boss has asked to come up from Van. Some drug and alcohol expert he says. But what's his word worth these days?
>** Has he ever been able to figure out what triggers it?
As far we can figure out, sun rise, sunset set, and all the space in between. I can only guess from my own experience in growing up within the family, but no one will ever know unless he confesses.
>Or does he just >like the taste? if it's merely the taste, there are some excellent >de-alcoholised wines going these days, really nice taste !
He's into the demon Rum....that doesn't come without alcohol. I never could figure out what tastes good about any of it. But that's me.
>** This is such a loving & caring thing to do !
That and get rid of the smell of things closed down for years. Some can relate to what I mean there.
> > He starts work this week and his boss has him in counselling twice a week, > > AA once a week, and he needs to supply proof of attendance or lose his >job. >** How do you think he might respond to that?
Seems to be okay with the idea but the actual doing, we'll just have to see.
>** I wish him well in his sober state, that he may see that this is so.
I wish him well too, but have no desire to make a sober state a big deal, the rest of us are sober everyday so won't congratulate him on becoming real. Sounds bad,but welcome to reality is my stand. >. >Much love Shar ! >Wombat:)
Thanks Wombat, love to you also.
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:07:50 -0600
> It is said that there is no conflict in the world, just that which you carry > within you. >
Thanks Vinny for your posting. It expands on what I was wanting to convey in my style of writing.
Indeed, finding our way through this maze called life, is not an easy journey. It is encumbered by many dead ends. Simply put, we turn around and do what must be done, in order to not be "stuck" in the dead end. Lamenting and crying the woes of what is only saps the energy that is required to correct that which needs to be corrected in the moment.
If I might site the analogy of spilled milk. Simply wipe the mess up, and pour another glass, all the while taking note that unless one is careful, this is what can happen. The law of "cause" and "effect.
Living "Awake" amongst the "Sleep" walking one needs to side step to "save one self". One can gently try to awake the sleeping, but it is up to the sleeping to wake up. ..... No?
Something like that ...lol
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 07:57:41 -0500
Greetings Renee;
I had prattled on: " what is wrong with "owning an opinion", you ask......... why nothing at all, assuming that you wish to stay asleep."
and you replied: "<grin> but to me...YOU are stating an opinion here. This is your opinion...that if I own an opinion...I am somehow asleep. I politely disagree:o) "
Disagree all you like. Just a gentle invitation to let go of all the hoo haa that you define yourself as and take a look see for yourself. Your choice or not. It is said that the only free will there is, is the freedom to let go of the causes of your suffering.
I blathered on some more saying: " Why not do something radical, unbelievable. See the opinions arise in the mind. Let them all go. What pray tell, could be left??????
to which you replied: "Ok...having been in the trenches for 40 years...this is what I see if we let go of our opinions (standards, principles, ethics and other human deductions)..CHAOS...absolute chaos on a world scale such as it is and becoming. <snipped a bit>"
Dear one, the CHAOS you see is precisely because of all the "owning". So many with their beliefs and truths, so many willing to fight and kill and murder for their truths, for their oil and gold, for their possessions. Standards, ethics, principles are simply what you want things to be. It has been my experience that trying to force reality, *what is* to be what you want is generally frustrating and expensive, although that does not appear to stop anyone from trying.
you go on to say: "I see people being chastised on all sides for holding what some call 'traditional' values and beliefs and being 'muzzled'....'no you can't disapprove of gays...you can't disapprove of us going after smokers...you MUST forgive Jesse Jackson his indiscretions and let it go....it's ok that Bush cheated in the elections..just roll over and live with it. It's our fault anyway for 'letting' the politicians run the country in the first place" and so what happens? People take more and more liberties...push more and more into a chaotic place and there is less and less civility, REASON...common sense, compassion, dignity. I am not going to stand there and say "I am unattached to this outcome" while some maniac is robbing a store, pushing a button to blow up the world with nuclear weapons or whatever. "
And so..... a while back, I had this funny notion, that I was arguing with reality, arguing with *what is*. A funny story actually, we were going to a local parade for the local kids who won a championship and it started raining hard. I was with my 7 year old and 1 1/2 year old (and all the baby accoutrements that you have to carry) and no umbrella. I began to gripe as we got soaked. (Hahahahahaha it literally was raining on my parade, hehehe) It suddenly dawned on my that I was arguing with *what is*. How do I know it is supposed to rain? Simple, it is raining. Everything that is happening is simply what is, as it is, in that moment. How do I know it is supposed to happen? Simple, it does. It all seemed so clear and so funny. To compound this two other thoughts arose, something Rumi said, "there is no doer but god", and something Paul said, "In him we live and move and have our being".
To decide that what has happened, is happening, is wrong or needs to be what you believe it should be, is to argue with reality, with truth, with *what is*. You can do that, but the buddha called it dukkha, suffering. It is my observation that it makes you most unhappy, and keeps you asleep.
The ego does not want peace, it wants to impose its own version of "order" on *what is*, in that it wants to be god. There is no amount of control that could satisfy it.
you say: "The argument you present is NOT something that day to day people can deal with. Most people are not caught up in intellectual 'knowing'...they are in life and death struggles here while our population grows from 6 billion to 7 billion on the planet. What we need is practical spirituality in this world. Something to hang on to within while we try to build a better planet...a better conceived 'future' so that we can all co-exist in some sort of peaceful relations...see? MOST of the world is starving. At least half of the world is illiterate. How many 'slaves' and 'indentured servants' (i.e. children) do we have? I would venture to guess that at least half the world can't even spell 'knowing' and 'owning' in their languages let alone GET the concept. "
Dear one, what we need is not "practical spirituality, something to hang onto while we build a better planet". We have all the "new age" stuff, cafeteria style spirituality. The book stores are littered with all the books. Millions of adherents and extremely few realizers. Many who follow these things still lie and cheat and kill and steal, and justify their behavior in the name and guise of their spirituality. We have religions a plenty, offering their institutionalized version of hope and how many are willing to kill for those beliefs? How many even hear the message being said to them? Why just the other sunday someone flipped me off while driving as they left the church parking lot following their worship service because they felt that they were slighted because there was not room to let them into the flow of traffic. So many participants in these and so few realizers.
What is going on in the world is simply what is. There have been many systems designed over the years to alleviate this. Communism, soclialism, capitalism, nazism, facism, and on and on and on. Haven't noticed any of them working. What might that mean?
It is said that there is no conflict in the world, just that which you carry within you.
If you wish for peace, start within you.
Have fun, take gentle care;
Vinny http://angelreiki.nu The past should not be followed after and the future not desired; what is past is dead and gone and the future is yet to come.
Majjhima Nikaya III, 131
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 19:00:52 GMT
Greetings Renee, you wrote: ->I think that one of the big problems I have via the Net is 'semantics' ->because often times I think people are coming from the same place but split ->hairs on keywords when they really mean the same thing on some level.
Whether it be the Net or talking with anyone who our particular use of words are not the same as another and vis-a-versa. However, that is why we discuss, to establish the intent behind the words used. A certain Clarity so that hopefully there will be meaningful Understanding in a given discussion. But I would add that differences over mere semantics is not as prevalent as we would like to think. Many times we will call a misunderstanding mere semantics so that each can *agree to disagree* and therefore end of Understanding. And it seems that I "split hairs" due to a seeming preference in word usage, but that is not Fact but rather that True Understanding is not established. Regardless of what words are used, if there is True Understanding one will look between and beyond the words. And I do not mean to agree, but rather to Openly and Honestly consider that something is perhaps Seen that another is not noticing. As I do not offer beliefs, I would not want to be believed but rather considered/tried to find out whether it is so or not. To simply not believe as well as simply to believe is the error of ignorance and fear.
->e.j.<< Since Truth and Reality is not our's to have and to hold, -> everyone shares in it quite freely. -> ->[me] ->Who says? Who says that both can't co-exist together? I can have and hold ->Truth and Reality in some form and so can you and we can even share in that ->truth and reality together. It IS something that IS...it's just ->THERE...waiting to be held and ->be-held by all of us which to me means 'known'.
Both Truth and Reality are one in the same -- Truth IS Reality and Reality IS Truth. What Truth and Reality do you have and hold ? Show me. Send it as an e-mail attachment so the whole Community can also have and hold it. Indeed Truth/Reality IS, but there is no "there" for it to be waiting and no one "there" to get it. You are correct, what you say is the "known", and it is the "known" that you have to Empty the cranium of. You have collecting all those "knowns" your whole life, where do you think they came from ? From your experiences and from watching others ? Overtly or subliminally collected, you are controlled and manipulated by all those knowns. I am sure you have studied Wise Sages of yore, and more recent ones such as Yogananda. Did they all say to cling to all your "knowns" ? Are they all fools because they say to let them go ? Why is it that so called "Spiritual Seekers" fashion their own Path to Enlightenment, when the Path has been sat out for us since time immemerable ? Is the old tried and true Path too arduous or too Painful ? Everyone has their own notion of how they are going to get to Enlightenment. The good new is that you are in the right Church, but the bad news is that you are sitting in the wrong pew. Frank Sinatra made millions on his song "My Way", but we will not get any further than our bed "Our Way".
->When I can reach from a spot within and 'hold' (for lack of a better english ->word) that feeling in my heart here <holding hand over heart> and then reach ->over in some way and touch you THERE <holding hand over heart across the ->known 'reality' of this physical plane> be it by means of love, kindness, ->empathy or whatever else 'touches' you...then we are not only mutually ->'holding' that same feeling for an instant...but we are also 'holding' a ->certain reality and TRUTH for US in that space and time....know what I mean? ->Too bad we can't Vulcan mind meld because people could communicate better ->without the 'words' and semantics getting in the way of pure knowing because ->in knowing you 'OWN' it for at least a moment...you 'behold' the face of the ->Beloved and all that she/he encompasses...a little piece of heaven:o) Thou ->art formless...yet I choose to worship Thee in this form and in this moment ->with YOU <beaming feeling from heart to heart>
You are rationalizing the so called *Connectivity*. If you are not connected before you reach your hand out you will never get connected. Your visual contrivance *sounds good* but True Connectivity does not work that way. The Dualistic notion that there needs to be a connection and there are separate things to connect is folly, and it would be surprising if you actually *believed* that. But it is obvious that you *believe* the contents of your mind (the knowns -- which are conditioned/programmed) because you seem to be very reluctant to *consider* else. We build walls to protect ourself, but those walls are our prison. Our rationalizations are but avoidance responses and defense mechanisms. Do not avoid confrontation with the Grand Trickster. Do not defend the Grand Trickster. All those collected "knowns" are collected from the Grand Trickster. Let them go. Try it, you might like it {8->
->[you] -> And the only Real important thing is -> that Peace and Compassion and Empathy are established. And some how war -> and conflict and greed and selfishness and corruption do not blend well -> with Peace and Compassion and Empathy. We mostly Talk the Talk of Peace -> and Compassion and Empathy, but very few actually Walk it. -> ->[me] ->Very true. I agree. I see this everyday and sorry but I own my total ->feelings of 'disgust' of others that only know how to SPELL compassion but ->don't know how to BE compassion. -> ->[you] -> Many have a strange notion that Awakening is going off in the -> mountains or dwelling in a cave or retreat somewhere. -> ->[me] ->I have a favorite saying of "So who is the truly enlightened man...the one ->who locks himself up in his cave with his books and meditations or the one ->that walks the streets and gets tested everyday?"
Perhaps both, and perhaps neither. You reveal another conditioned notion, *thinking* that one is superior to the other. For if the school of hard knocks is the deciding factor, why is not most Enlightened ? In your job you say that you extend your hand to others, yet you slap away the hand extended to you. Open your eyes, Seeing is not as bad as we are conditioned to think.
->[you] -> Sure, such is good -> solid ground for Awakening, but that is not where greater humanity is and -> it is greater humanity who must start Awakening. No, Awakening must start -> right where you ARE right NOW and emanated into every aspect of your life -> whatever that life might be. So you are correct, we must be UNattached -> not DEtached. How do you council those in your case load ? -> ->[me] ->>From personal experience:o) After going through years of abuse as a child, ->and all forms of that abuse...and being homeless as a child as well as ->parents who were addicted to various substances etc., plus other 'qualifying' ->experiences in this life, I tell my clients that there is nothing they can't ->tell me that I either haven't lived or witnessed in my life. I come from ->direct personal knowledge:o)
It is offered to dump the "knowledge" and come directly from your BEing, for your knowledge is not YOU but rather what contents of the mind you have acquired. Open up Dear Friend, you are hiding the Real YOU. Why ? Is there something you do not want to See in yourself ? Is there something you do not want to admit to yourself about yourself ?
->[you] -> Your -> education and computer data base and no doubt sympathy and understanding ? -> ->[me] ->I am unusual in this social service field because I do not have a college ->degree...my experience and on the job experience (in addition to personal ->experience) slowly moved me up the ladder to this position. Took me a little ->longer but I enjoyed being in the trenches more so than being in the ->classroom.
Do you not think it is time you stopped identifying with your past and come foreword to the ever anew Present Moment ?
->[you] -> Could you be more effective or more helpful if your Realization of your -> True Nature could meld with the True Nature of those you council ? -> ->[me] ->I tell my clients that there IS no difference between us...we are both ->dependent on the same system. They are put down for being on welfare while I ->get a paycheck from welfare so how can I see them as being 'different' from ->me? I just worked the system more effectively and got 'hired' rather than ->applying for 'aid'. I am very humble in how I approach those who are deemed ->'less fortunate' (what does that mean for God's sake?) than myself because I ->don't see them in that 'way'. We are all lessons for each other. The bum in ->the street is teaching as big a lesson to passersby as Clinton taught with ->his sexual escapades and abuse of power in a high office. I see no ->difference in the 'messages' each one of us sends out to another.
I was not talking about that misnomer "human nature", I was talking of Truth Nature which is your very Essence, that which establishes your sentience, your greater Evolved/Involved state of BEing. The so called "human nature" is nothing more than the conditioned way of thinking and behaving, whereas the True Nature is who you ARE this anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. So *Who Is Renee* ? Not who WAS Renee or who Renee *thinks* Renee is or who Renee thinks she *should be*, but rather *Who Is Renee* right NOW ?
->[you] -> No, it is not suggested that you can Save The World by letting go of -> the Desire of possession or ownership. It is suggested that by Saving -> yourself that you could better Help others to Save themselves. -> ->[me] ->I still disagree with the notion that we must be 'saved' or are 'saving' ->others (how egotistical really....to think we can save ourselves so that now ->we can go out and be the redeemer to others).
Re-read, it is not agreed with from here either. No one can Save us, we must Save ourself. As we can not Save another, we can only Help them Save themselves.
-> I don't see the people that I ->serve (as a public servant) as anything less or 'more' than myself. I help ->them identify what they want to do, how they got to where they are at and how ->they can look up and see that horizon of their dreams....taking positive ->steps in a better direction that THEY have identified as 'better' in self ->sufficiency...not 'me' dictating to them what that future IS. We own a ->mutual look at 'reality' or 'truth' as an evolving process between us...as ->two people putting our heads together in the trenches on the same path trying ->to figure it all out one step at a time. Does this make sense to you?
Sleeping we serve ourself, Awakening we Serve others because we no longer need our Services.
->In the Spirit of Discovery....
The Final Discovery is that you had nothing to discover, but that you have Everything to BE.
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:17:40 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Hi Renee! I totally agree with you that semantics is a major problem in discussions such as we have here in the Oasis. To borrow your phrasing - I have been in the trenches for 69 years, and I too make my voice heard from the place of personal experience. It was not always like this as I have been very reticence in speaking out before I went into therapy (after my accident). Healing came by way of pealing all the layers of conditioning for over fifty years - much like pealing off layers of an onion. I hear you loud and clear, and within the context of what you are 'saying' I concur with you. However in the battle of words, I suspect that 'meaning' is getting crossed wired in the exchanges. What is being advocated (I'm not sure that this is the right word) here is not that one give up one's 'values & principles' - only to remove those layers of conditioning passed down generation after generation that are steeped in fear, and control for the benefit of greed. You mentioned that you were raised as an abused child; so was I, physically and mentally. To boot, I came through WW2 from age nine to thirteen, keeping one step ahead of the bullets. Death is no stranger to me, nor are, torture, hunger, homeless, cold, wet etc., a list that would fill several pages. I have lived in and been exposed to most cultures, all varying in what is usually termed "normal" behavior, in other word - "custom". My "formal education" terminated in Grade 6, and what went before was very sporadic. Yet, I consider myself as being very fortunate for having attended the best school possible - the School of Life. The multi facet of this schooling is now (and has been the building) foundation to/for my "Awakening", as is termed here in Mission Of Light. What this means for me is that I am no longer the clone of all those people who touched my life giving me "advise for your own good!" When someone says to me "jump!" I no longer reply "how high" as I was conditioned to by all the abuse in my youth and young adult years. Further - what I came to realize, was that those who gave me the "good advice" - really did it out of their own need to feel comfortable, important, superior; to feed their own lack of self-esteem and loss of their own identity. I understand ( as I have said) what you are meaning, and it took me a long time to understand what is being discussed here. At times (less frequently now) I am still haunted by memories of the water torture used by those victorious in war to bring their captives to submissiveness. Very much like what I went through except instead of water, words were used. Pain is pain delivered in any shape or form! For me, there is still healing to do, and in each moment, as I discard each layer or part of, I reveal the True Identity of who I AM - once again I am the innocent (not ignorant), fearless "child guru". This is my understanding of the difference between "Sleeping" and "Awakening" in the context of our discussion here.
(((Love)))
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 14:13:15 -0500
Hi Gary
you wrote: "Living "Awake" amongst the "Sleep" walking one needs to side step to "save one self". One can gently try to awake the sleeping, but it is up to the sleeping to wake up. ..... No?"
The Buddha tried that and look what it got him. They made a religion after him.
Jesus tried and they nailed him to a tree.
Forget that noise, you are on your own.
Have fun, Take gentle care;
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@riversidedpss.org>
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:16:01 -0700
Too funny! I like that observation!
Subject: Re: Ownership/Gary
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:29:56 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
[me] Well if that's the definition of what is being said here, then I GET IT. If not <sigh> I'm just visiting from another planet and observing the natives <grin>.
Thanks for your wonderful insights and reaching out to 'connect'. I appreciate it:o) ________________________ And I appreciate you too. Renee ~ may I be so bold as to venture asking you if you still carry much anger. I sense you do . . . yet I have been wrong before!
As you know, that emotion (of anger) is cancerous and eats away at one's persona. I have to admit that I find myself still healing from that. I doubt I shall ever be "cured" . . . at least not in this life time . . lol. The scars on me run deep and are a constant reminder. What I do is, to be mindful of this and make sure that I don't inflict those same hurts on others that touch my life. Sad to say, I sometimes get caught up in the anger and "forget". However, to dismiss my part in the interaction with another by saying "I am only human", is a "cope out". At these occasions, the "little child" of me really cries out to me to stop . . . and I hurt all over again. This is what I am discarding with each pealing of the layers of conditioning.
Yet - as you probably also know, there is a space in time when the exposed "skin" for want of a better word, is raw and exposed. This requires time to heal, and being here in this Oasis, affords me that time.
As in any healing center, there are always new comers, who are just at the beginning of their healing process . . . or maybe they have been to other healing centers and did not receive the care they needed. It is natural to be leery and skeptical under such circumstance. Alertness/awareness to taking a wrong turn is healthy . . . keeps one on one's toes.
I recognize the "ownership" of the other's fears and hurts, when they take a wrong turn and come against a seemingly dead end. What is required of me, if I am asked "the way out?" is to remember that I am looking at myself (at one time) in the other, and to gently lead them away from this impasse while encouraging the other to leave behind the burden of their fear and hurt. This makes the journey much lighter and easier.
Sometimes, this gentleness doesn't work as the other is so strong in the ownership of their fears and hurts. In such cases, a more "harsher" method is required - if the other truly wants the guide out from the dead end. One can take a horse to water, but cannot force it to drink.
I find myself in this situation with the family I am guiding out of the dead end path. I don't like doing it, but it is necessary if they want to find their way out . . . and apparently they do, even if as they balk with every step. Right now they feel, naked, exposed, and very vulnerable. Quite natural, I would say! It is healing time . . . and the scab will form to protect the exposed skin from further infection. When it is healed it will fall off. In the meantime as I lead the way, I point out the prickly raspberry bushes along the way. They can eat of the fruit, but must be aware of the thorns.
This is what The Mission of Light is all about, and why we are endeavoring to build the center for retreat - a safe environment for the time required to heal. Many Light worker are needed if we are to attain the goal.
Obvious to me, you have much to offer, and I trust that you will see fit to stay and share of your own wisdom.
Subject: Re: words words words
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 05:27:54 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->It seems a lot of time has been spent recently arguing ->about "what is meant by what". Have you ever given any ->thought of establishing a specialized dictionary of ->terms/words/phrases used on the message board? Here's a ->partial list -- I'm sure other members could add some ->candidates.
Hmmmm, there was no "arguing" seen from here Dear Friend. Though it was mentioned that the Intent between/behind/beyond words is generally ironed out during discussion. In understanding this Intent one must also look at the context the words are used in. Another clue, at least in my offerings, is the use of capitalizing a word out of place. Such as I did above in Dear Friend. Simply saying dear friend would have been *normal* yet does not emphasize the Intended sincerity as does Dear Friend. Capitalized words out of place require a Deeper look at the general meaning of the word. Other than that, anyone who knows the English language at all would understand my simply presentations. I would say that when language or terms or words get confusing is when we *react* to them rather than asking what we mean by using such words. OR, asking ourself why we would react to such words. No ?
Subject: Awakening
From: Sehlene <sehlene@dragonswing.net>
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:40:45 -0700
Dear Friends,
My favorite poet is Ralph Pearcy---a remarkable man with great vision. He sent this one to me yesterday and I felt that you would enjoy it in view of your current discussions.
ADVICE TO THE AWAKENING
You say you feel empty, in a dark space and see us all alive, enlightened. This perception sets you apart from those who see only walls, bodies, atoms, light rays with no bright or dark feeling, mere appearance without beingness. And what of the cat who walks by herself and knows how she lived last century? What of the owl who, his forest harvested has no home to call his universe? What seems empty is over-full, filled with lies and harm and shameful unconfrontabilities, things blanked out from insight, inner knowledge, peace. To find your universe you need to walk among the ruins of your hopes, deeds of dread or deceit, and recreate the living you who valiantly survived. Then you can act joyfully without fear of disapproval or diminishment.
Copyright þ 2001 by Ralph Pearcy All rights reserved
Much love to all
Sehlene of Dragons Wing
Subject: words words words
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:32:10 +0000
Greetings EJ,
It seems a lot of time has been spent recently arguing about "what is meant by what". Have you ever given any thought of establishing a specialized dictionary of terms/words/phrases used on the message board? Here's a partial list -- I'm sure other members could add some candidates.
Nothing Awakening Sleeping Love Self God You Faith Desting Karma Me Truth Reality Be Is Path Enlightenment Attachment Conditioning Grand Trickster You Id Ego Belief Hope Mind Brain Now Present Be
Subject: A life-lesson about adversity
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 23:40:39 +0000
A daughter complained to her father about how her life was so hard and she did not how she was going to make it. It seemed as soon as one problem was solved a new one arose.
Her father, a chef, took her to the kitchen. He put three pots of water on the stove. As soon as the water came to a boil, he put carrots in one, eggs in another and ground coffee beans in the third.
The daughter wondered what he was doing. Twenty minutes later he poured the water of the cooked carrots and eggs, putting them in two separate bowls. He ladled coffee into a mug.
He turned to his daughter and asked what she saw. "Cooked Carrots, hardboiled eggs,and coffee", she replied.
He told her to feel the carrots. She did, noting they were soft, He then asked her to break an egg. She took off the shell and found a hardboiled egg. Finally, he asked her to sip some coffee, which she did, tasting the rich aroma.
She asked. "What's your point?"
He explained that each of the foodstuffs faced the same adversity, boiling water, but each reacted differently. The carrot went into boiling water strong, hard and came out softened and weak. The fragile egg's thin outer shell had protected its liquid interior. But after sitting through the boiling water, its inside became hardened. After the ground coffee beans were in the boiling water, they had changed the water.
Which will you be?" he asked his daughter.
"Are you a carrot that wilts, becomes soft, loses its strength when faced with adversity."
"Or are you an egg, which starts off malleable, fluid, but after a after a death, a breakup, a divorce, or a layoff have you become hardened and stiff. Your shell looks the same, but you become bitter and tough."
"Or are you like the coffee bean -- that enriches all water that it touches?"
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 07:26:26 -0500
Hey Gary;
actually as I recall, I was simply "trying" to be funny.....
you had mentioned gently waking up the sleeping, and so I mentioned two who did that.
(gigles) Getting nailed to a tree didn't seem like much fun and so I just wrote that.
Suppose I didn't put much thought into it.
Take gentle care;
Vinny The past should not be followed after and the future not desired; what is past is dead and gone and the future is yet to come.
Majjhima Nikaya III, 131
Subject: Re: Ownership/Gary
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:33:11 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Hi Renee, No . . . I did not realize there was an attachment . . . ???? Glad to hear that you did not open it.
Thank you for your most recent reply. There is much in your posting to digest, and requires my undivided attention. Just wanted to acknowledge (at this time) your posting, and say ~ "I hear you."
Subject: Re: Ownership/Gary
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 23:43:37 EDT
Hey..did you know there was a file attached to that email? Just curious...I didn't download it but there is a lot of 'that' going around e-lists right now where someone sends an email and a file is attached and they don't know what 'got' attached in the first place. Comments below:
In a message dated 5/2/01 2:14:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, glr@home.com writes:
<< And I appreciate you too. Renee ~ may I be so bold as to venture asking you if you still carry much anger. I sense you do . . . yet I have been wrong before!
[me] I think that sometimes people get intensity and passion mixed up with 'anger'. I also, being a minority and a 'mix' of Hispanic and British (mom is blue blood...Dad is totally on fire...latino)...well I'm sort of a firecracker here. A lot of elemental fire naturally. In fact, that's a nickname that I got stuck with...LOL. Firecracker. Red hair and all:o) I find that sometimes people from a more Vanilla sort of environment might label (not YOU...just in general) passionate minority types as 'angry' especially here in California...land of many many diverse and pissy people. We are just about the 'majority' finally here (Hispanic)...intimacy breeds the majority in the end, after all so neener neener out there. At least for the moment:o)
[you] As you know, that emotion (of anger) is cancerous and eats away at one's persona. I have to admit that I find myself still healing from that. I doubt I shall ever be "cured" . . . at least not in this life time . . lol. The scars on me run deep and are a constant reminder. What I do is, to be mindful of this and make sure that I don't inflict those same hurts on others that touch my life.
[me] Well of course NOT. Who would want to intentionally do that? Oh...I forgot...there are those who are nutcases out there (the 'walking dead' who like to see people hurt as much as they hurt). I hear you on the anger and yes I am angry to some degree but I think the anger (outrage) generates from the work that I am in and the ignorance I see....the lack of compassion and 'let's roll up our sleeves and DO something' mentality that I wish was there. I don't CARE if 'wishing' or 'invisioning' is attaching to the outcome. There should be more of us attaching to a better outcome. I happen to think we are co-creators with God/Higher Power and this disempowering idea of 'we are all one so let's just sit back up here on the clouds and what will be will be' is crap. I 'identify' :::rolling eyes::: for lack of a better description <grin> with being an activist. Excuse me. If ya don't like it...delete ze email...LOLOL.
So what you may be feeling is pain...seeing others go through what I went through and seeing so many callous and cold TO that pain and need. My spouse also works in social services as a social worker for Adult Protective Services and we see both ends day in and day out..abuse of the elderly, abuse of children and abuse of women and even men! Appalling. And all you get on the news is the one liners about welfare lowlife recipients and how they are bleeding the gov't when only 2% of the federal budget goes towards CHARITY...like give me a break! Sorry for venting but if not for charity...well....some people wouldn't have a bed to sleep in tonight or a hot meal. What is so wrong with that? I think he is even angrier than I am (if you want to put it that way) having been in the military as a minority for 20 years (let's not even get into prejudice and discrimination here), a Jonestown body bagger and a CIA trained individual sent in as a courier around the world undercover. The tales we could BOTH tell...HA.
And what's really ironic is that I started out VERY submissive and passive. My brother used to come in every single day and smack me across the face with a newspaper and say "get UP Renee and FIGHT...don't sit there and take it...learn to FIGHT and stand up for yourself" and I thought he was the weirdest person on the planet. "Why do that? They aren't going to change if I fight so what's the use?" and I was like 4 years old ...the adult taking care of my mother. I didn't develop 'pissiness' until one day I HAD to defend myself physically and my mother while a 6'4" man was beating her within an inch of her life. I knew I had to do something and I did. In self-defense i was able to stop him and THEN I got angry...anger can be healthy too ya know. It's like one's arteries are clogged and someone just ran a line of epinephrine through your veins and WHOOSH...the 'AHA' goes on and you say enough is enough! Don't give me platitutudes, rationalizations, philosophy, esoteric opinion...just get this lunatic OUT of my life once and for all...period. See? I see this 'feeling' more as 'Outrage' rather than blind anger or anger running rampant. Sometimes one can take one's anger and direct it constructively into helping others 'awaken' (I guess) and change their lives.
[you] Sad to say, I sometimes get caught up in the anger and "forget". However, to dismiss my part in the interaction with another by saying "I am only human", is a "cope out". At these occasions, the "little child" of me really cries out to me to stop . . . and I hurt all over again. This is what I am discarding with each pealing of the layers of conditioning.
[me] Forget what? Who and where you are or why you are angry? Why is it a cop out? I really do feel that we are spiritual beings having a human experience.
Here's an idea for you. Let's say this ONE decides to create another 'state' of being...something new to explore...the merging of the material with the spiritual...the Spiritual being able to merge and express in 3-D...here in human form. This is a process in evolution and it takes time to do the 'as above...so below' LITERALLY. We have had some masters who have done this to some degree such as Yognanda and Christ and whoever...both known and unknown as I feel masters walk amongst us unseen and unrecognized and unheard by most. So maybe we're not meant to 'detach'...maybe we're supposed to MERGE and this resistance is what is causing chaos. Instead of embracing the ALL that IS in this particular dimension...transmuting the so called 'negative' (which really isn't negative...one has to OWN all one's parts and make a holistic WHOLE) into a constructive oneness on many levels....well instead of attempting to do that holistically...we resist and run away from our Selves. Meanwhile Higher Self is screaming 'stop...wait...come back here...have no fear' LOL. And yes...some people can do all the 'but we ARE all one...you just have to REMEMBER and KNOW. Isolation is in YOUR head...the oneness is there whether you know it or not" and sorry...but we are NOT all one on all levels just yet. I disagree. If you (whoever...not you personally) as a white man from a white community saw me as a white appearing woman with a dark man as a spouse....well...sorry but there is this 'thing' that gets in the way...prejudice, ownership of things that do NOT belong to you...discrimination yadda yadda...that keeps the white and the dark from uniting TRULY. I see this everyday too. I just don't buy it. We can scream we are all One until the dark man 'wins' the white woman from the white community (even though she's also part 'dark') and then all the white men think this stinks. It's ridiculous. We are far from being 'one' on this plane and in this time period. We may have COME from the One and some of us can 'remember' on some Soulular level what Oneness really IS or they 'feel' it on some ancient weblike connection...but we ain't One honey...we have a long way to go. We're still cavemen masquerading around in suits. This is a simplified example (just ONE example that some of us experience in a batch of hundreds on a day to day basis) so don't get all caught up in it. I'm using it to emphasize a point. I hope you see that.
Now you stated: Yet - as you probably also know, there is a space in time when the exposed "skin" for want of a better word, is raw and exposed. This requires time to heal, and being here in this Oasis, affords me that time.
[me] Ok but can you see the idea that maybe we NEVER heal? If there is one shred of pain out there in this world...do you see that the One/God/Goddess (all of us) bleed too? That pain/pleasure are the same thing...two sides of the same coin and they must exist for this reality to be here? There IS no perfectly healed person out there. There is nothing wrong with being who you are...raw and exposed or not. I would assume that this 'Oasis' is not just an A & W stand out there in the desert where people can have a taste of the good ole days but also are here to learn, grow and discuss these ideas on their evolutionary journey...right?
[you] As in any healing center, there are always new comers, who are just at the beginning of their healing process . . . or maybe they have been to other healing centers and did not receive the care they needed. It is natural to be leery and skeptical under such circumstance. Alertness/awareness to taking a wrong turn is healthy . . . keeps one on one's toes.
[me] Well I'm not 'leery' at all. I am very openminded and verbalizing is a way to explore new ideas and take from those ideas what works for you. I also am not a 'sheep' willing to accept anything bantered about just because someone is a big fish in a little pond and 'says so' <no insult to anyone intended>...ya know? To 'take a wrong turn' ...well...that's sorta dualistic too cause there aren't any 'wrong turns'...only experiences on one's path of evolution. "You are exactly where you are meant to be even though it may appear to be otherwise" is a common statement I have heard for years.
I don't look at these places on the net or elsewhere as 'healing centers' because to do so would mean that I buy into the idea that we all need to be 'healed' of 'something' that is 'wrong' within (cancerous? LOL). "What another thinks of you is none of your business for you represent a lesson to them". I look at 'these places' as pitstops in life where one shares idea's, meets or 'remembers' new (old) people and continues on the journey. I have been here for longer than you might think....just a lurker in the background 'listening' in on the conversation:o)
[you] I recognize the "ownership" of the other's fears and hurts, when they take a wrong turn and come against a seemingly dead end. What is required of me, if I am asked "the way out?" is to remember that I am looking at myself (at one time) in the other, and to gently lead them away from this impasse while encouraging the other to leave behind the burden of their fear and hurt. This makes the journey much lighter and easier.
[me] But that is assuming that you are in a 'better place' or am I wrong? Isn't that some sort of 'belief system' that you can lead them to the Light? Like...maybe they chose to be here to lead YOU to something too. Mutual reciprocity. I sorta see this as 'attaching to an outcome' (leading them away from an impasse/dead end etc.)...ya know? Not that that is 'wrong' or anything <grin>.
This makes the journey much lighter and easier for who? You or them?
[you] Sometimes, this gentleness doesn't work as the other is so strong in the ownership of their fears and hurts. In such cases, a more "harsher" method is required - if the other truly wants the guide out from the dead end. One can take a horse to water, but cannot force it to drink.
[me] But that is your idea of a 'dead end' no matter how real it appears. My spouse often says to me 'how come you don't get upset when this person or that craps on you for the millionth time and then comes back for more advice? You never seem to get ruffled." because I don't 'expect' them to 'be' or do something. I just dispense what they 'ask' (may I have your opinion on this? is what they ask) and what they do with it is their business. I don't care what they do in the end because it's THEIR life...not mine...! There is a difference between license and freedom. License is when someone thinks they can do or be anything they want even if it is at your 'expense' in some way such as a partner that expects you to be faithful yet he can go out and mess around whether you 'know' that or not...the hell with it. Freedom is doing what I want to do without hurting or invading anyone else's rights or space both physically, mentally, spiritually, psychically or emotionally.
Maybe that horse is thinking "what is one man's lake is another man's poison...no WAY" LOLOL
[you] I find myself in this situation with the family I am guiding out of the dead end path. I don't like doing it, but it is necessary if they want to find their way out . . . and apparently they do, even if as they balk with every step. Right now they feel, naked, exposed, and very vulnerable. Quite natural, I would say! It is healing time . . . and the scab will form to protect the exposed skin from further infection. When it is healed it will fall off. In the meantime as I lead the way, I point out the prickly raspberry bushes along the way. They can eat of the fruit, but must be aware of the thorns.
[me] What kind of work do you do? Frankly those thorns are not so bad...they cause one to 'bleed' when pricked and remind us of our humanity...the ability to be vulnerable, emotional, FEELING creatures. There is always the 'sweet' with the 'pain'. There is a time for everything....a time to live...a time to die...a time to laugh and a time to cry....
[you] This is what The Mission of Light is all about, and why we are endeavoring to build the center for retreat - a safe environment for the time required to heal. Many Light worker are needed if we are to attain the goal. Obvious to me, you have much to offer, and I trust that you will see fit to stay and share of your own wisdom.
[me] Thank you. It is a pleasure to go 'back and forth' with you:o) I find it quite refreshing.
Sincerely....Renee Why this screen came out beige is beyond me...LOL. Course this could be only MY reality and I can't say I own this email cause it came from YOU so I'm sharing this moment of Beige-ness for what it's worth cause the beige and me are ONE right now and I"m learning what it is to BE beige <barf>...hehe.
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:21:09 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Hi Vinny! I am not clear on the point you make with the quoted post below. My understanding is that neither of this two people which you mention, tried to do anything, except to follow their own dictates - if I can phrase it thus! Nor (as I understand) did they set out in "search of followers". They lived their lives as they saw fit (for themselves). Some others were witnesses to this and sought to find out more and emulate. Does this then make Jesus or Buddha "wrong" or "right". They simply did what they did in the time they were on this planet and in this world. I agree totally with your comment "you are alone" within the context of what you are meaning (again, as I understand it.) However, I am not "an island unto myself", where I AM. Thus in my daily interactions with others, I am mindful of all that my living life encompass. I do (whatever) what I do in the moment that I do. It may sound trite (to some), yet for me it makes sense. My postings (here) is not to tell anyone what to do or not to do. When a thread interest me, I share of myself coming from my own experiences. If there is "value" or "worth" in my postings, I leave it for the reader to decide - to take from it, or leave it alone. As I grow (in years), I discover that life is not complicated, it is I who complicates life. Living IN THE MOMENT, all IS as IS. When I step out of the MOMENT into the past (memories) or the (unknown/not yet) future, is when my life is complicated, since I must deal with all the conditioned tripe. I could say "I trust in fate", yet this statement could invite many 'arguments' if taken out of the context of my meaning. The best that I or any one else can do, is simply to share from our own place and leave it to the other to decide if what is said has any "worth". Your postings as is anyone else's, are very much appreciated by me. In them, I (sometimes) can see a reflection of myself, and what I see is not always very nice.
(((Love)))
Subject: Re: A life-lesson about adversity
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:36:59 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Thank you Oren, a lesson appreciated, and a point well made.
Subject: Re: Ownership
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:13:21 -0600
Thanks Vinny for clarifying . . . I have to say that my sense of humor wasn't turned on at the time :))
Subject: Allegory
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 10:24:56 -0600
> Thanks Gary:o) Yup...there's another file today attached...LOL. Hey...the > screen is yellow instead of beige! Way cool! > >
I was trying out a new email program which could be set with automatic variations in stationery. "Way cool ! " is right . . . but a pain in the ass with the attachments . . . LOL
Now . . . as for your postings, I would venture to say that we are saying the same thing, just using a different language. And, thanks for sharing Allegory . . . I saved it and will include it on my web site as a link . . . that is whenever I get around to working on it. Retirement is such a busy time! :))
Subject: Fuel Prices
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 07:28:28 -0700
I know this is not what the list is for but I am making an acception to see if public awareness can make a difference. I am not sure this is the case in the US but it is here in BC. The difference between US dollars and Canadian right now is 49 cents. For every ten dollars I make painting, I would make 5 in US dollars. You pay half the price the gas we do dollar for dollar. This is one reason this is important for us to try and make a change. Most of us are also paying on average $150 per month for natural gas and $100 for hydro. Add $50 for telephone. If a small thing like avoiding the 2 major gas companies can make a difference, it should be tried.
An apology to those this doesn't effect or interest.
Subject: : Fuel Prices DO NOT DELETE!!
We CAN make a difference!!
Subject: An Allegory:o)
From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:44:41 EDT
>From Isabel Hickey...
An Allegory
I leaned from the low-hung crescent moon and grasping the west pointing horn of it, looked down. Against the other horn reclined, motionless, a Shining One and looked at me, but I was unafraid. Below me the hills and valleys were thick with humans, and the moon swung low that I might see what they did.
"Who are they?" I asked the Shining One. For I was unafraid. And the Shining One made answer: "They are the Sons of God and the Daughters of God." (or however you call the Universal One)
I looked again , and saw that they beat and trampled each other. Sometimes they seemed not to know that the fellow-creature they pushed from their path fell under their feet. But sometimes they looked as he fell and kicked him brutally.
And I said to the Shining One: "Are they ALL the Sons and Daughters of God?" And the Shining One said: "ALL"
As I leaned and watched them, it grew clear to me that each was frantically seeking something, and that it was because they sought what they sought with such singleness of purpose that they were so inhuman to all who hindered them.
And I said to the Shining One: "What do they seek?" And the Shining One made answer: "Happiness" "Are they all seeking Happiness?" "All" "Have any of them found it?" "None of those have found it" "Do they ever think they have found it?" "Sometimes they think they have found it"
My eyes filled, for at that moment I caught a glimpse of a woman with a babe at her breast, and I saw the babe torn from her and the woman cast into a deep pit by a man with his eyes fixed on a shining lamp that he believed to be (or perchance to contain, I know not) Happiness. And I turned to the Shining One, my eyes blinded. "Will they ever find it?" And He said: "They will find it" "All of them?" "All of them" "Those who are trampled?" "Those who are trampled" "And those who trample?" "And those who trample"
I looked again, a long time, at what they were doing on the hills and in the valleys, and again my eyes went blind with tears, and I sobbed out to the Shining One: "Is it God's will, or the work of the Devil, that men seek Happiness"? "It is God's will" "And it looks so like the work of the Devil!" "It does look like the work of the Devil." When I had looked a little longer, I cried out, protesting: "Why has he put them down there to seek Happiness and to cause each other immeasurable misery?" Again the Shining One smiled inscrutably: "They are learning" "What are they learning?" "They are learning Life. And they are learning Love."
I said nothing. One man in the herd below me held me breathless, fascinated. He walked proudly, and others ran and laid the bound struggling bodies of living men before him that he might tread upon them and never touch foot to earth. But suddenly a whirlwind seized him and tore his purple from him and set him down, naked among strangers. And they fell upon him and maltreated him sorely. I clapped my hands. "Good! Good!" I cried, exultantly. "He got what he deserved!" Then I looked up suddenly, and saw again the inscrutable smile of the Shining One. And the Shining One spoke quietly. "They all get what they deserve." "And no worse?" "And no worse." "And no better?" "How can there be any better? They each deserve whatever shall teach them the true way to Happiness." I was silenced.
And still the people went on seeking, and trampling each other in their eagerness to find. And I perceived what I had not fully grasped before, that the whirlwind caught them up from time to time and set them down elsewhere to continue the Search. And I said to the Shining One: "Does the Whirlwind always set them down again on these hills and in these valleys?" And the Shining One made answer: "Not always on these hills or in these valleys." "Where then?" "Look above you." And I looked up. Above me stretched the Milky Way and gleamed the stars. And I breathed "Oh" and fell silent, awed by what was given to me to comprehend. Below me they still trampled one another. And I asked the Shining One: "But no matter where the Whirlwind sets them down, they go on seeking Happiness?" "They go on seeking Happiness." "And the Whirlwind makes no mistakes?" "The Whirlwind makes no mistakes." "It puts them sooner or later, where they will get what they deserve?" "It puts them sooner or later, where they will get what they deserve."
Then the load crushing my heart lightened, and I found I could look at the brutal cruelties that went on below me with pity for the cruel. And the longer I looked the stronger the compassion grew. And I said to the Shining One: "They act like men goaded." "They are goaded" "What goads them?" "The name of the goad is Desire" Then, when I had looked a little longer, I cried out passionately: "Desire is an evil thing!" But the face of the Shining One grew stern and his voice rang out, dismaying me. "Desire is not an evil thing." I trembled and thought withdrew myself into the innermost chamber of my heart. Till at last I said: "It is Desire that nerves men on to learn the lessons that God has set." "It is Desire that nerves them." "The lessons of Life and Love?" "The lessons of Life and Love!!" Then I could no longer see that they were cruel. I could only see that they were learning. I watched them with deep love and compassion, as one by one the Whirlwind carried them out of sight.
~~Anonymous~~
Apart from me There is neither wisdom, Nor knowledge, nor understanding. Into every state of knowledge do I enter, Into false knowledge as well as into true, So that I am not less the ignorance of the deluded Than the wisdom of the sage. For what thou callest ignorance and folly Is my pure knowing, Imperfectly expressed Through an uncompleted image Of my divine imperfection.
Woe unto them Who condemns these my works unfinished! Behold, they who presume to judge Are themselves incomplete. Through many a fiery trial of sorrow Must they pass, Ere the clear beauty of wisdom May shine from out their hearts, Like unto a light Burning in a lamp of alabaster
>From the Book of Tokens, by Paul Foster Case
Subject: moment & essence kontinued
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:02:38 -0700
...even in my addled & conditioned mentation, i am still aware or rather, awake enuff to REAL-ize the Fakt that i am asleep... i offer that this realization must be REAL-ized intellektually, emotionally & most importantly, in ESSENCE - becuz -
ESSENCE IS THE MOMENT
while everything else is merely the accoutrement of the personality, false or true, more or less asleep or awake...
why is it that some Moments, some dead for years, in memory are more marked than others... why are some memories holographik while the majority of remembrances pale into one & two dimensional abstracts?
i kan hear the genesis of a roaring laugh... & then this comes out: 'there are no Moments, dear friend, there IS only Thee MOMENT IN/AS she IS... this memory & remembrances bunk is merely the sound that ur Conditioned/Manipulated notions make from the trunks & duffle bags that are piled up in a corner of your 'Steerage' cabin on the Titanik...
perhaps i am wrong here, ray, making an ass out of u & me, perhaps you might say, with a modicum of elementary rationality, that yes, indeed: the Moments, tho there can be no Moments, only the Moment IN/AS she Is Now, the Moments that we do remember are the Moments that were Direktly Experienced, hence their seemingly holographik presence... though they cannot & do not exist anymore, never have, becuz there is only the Moment IN/AS it Is...
zo, from here i would conjecture that the more the Moment is Direktly Experienced the fuller/richer/deeper our lives will have been when we finally shuffle off this mortal koil...
i am blowing a smoke chain from my Marlboro cigarette & not having much suksess... will try again in a few moments...
till then Yoda, i am all ears, volker
ps: i am entertaining the notion that the Moment is eternal & if this is so, kan one walk, oops, - kan one Be in the Moment at one's leisure? becuz sumtimes i like to go into the Attic & rummage thru sum of my auld stuph...
Subject: Re: moment & essence kontinued
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 01:40:53 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: -> ESSENCE IS THE MOMENT
True, as the ever anew Eternal Infinite Moment IS Essence.
->while everything else is merely the accoutrement of the personality, false ->or true, more or less asleep or awake...
Dear Friend, do not mistake the frog or the jump for the jumping frog. That which is connected with the so called "personality" is False and Sleeping. And not between or a combination of the two.
->why is it that some Moments, some dead for years, in memory are more marked ->than others... why are some memories holographik while the majority of ->remembrances pale into one & two dimensional abstracts?
Emotion. Memories that live longer and with more vitality are those connected in some way with some emotional reaction/response. The rest is simply Data-Base material, and both are but archives with no inherent Reality/Truth to them.
->then this comes out: 'there ->are no Moments, dear friend, there IS only Thee MOMENT IN/AS she IS... this ->memory & ->remembrances bunk is merely the sound that ur Conditioned/Manipulated ->notions make from ->the trunks & duffle bags that are piled up in a corner of your 'Steerage' ->cabin on the Titanik...
*Deep Bow* This is most True. But just saying it does not make it so, you have to BE the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. THEN it will be so.
->perhaps i am wrong here, ray, making an ass out of u & me, perhaps you ->might say, ->with a modicum of elementary rationality, that yes, indeed: the Moments, tho ->there can be ->no Moments, only the Moment IN/AS she Is Now, the Moments that we do ->remember are the Moments ->that were Direktly Experienced, hence their seemingly holographik ->presence... though ->they cannot & do not exist anymore, never have, becuz there is only the ->Moment IN/AS it Is...
We remember Directly Experienced Moments as well as remember opinions and beliefs. Direct Experience has nothing to do with whether we remember it or not. Yet, it is True that whether Directly Experienced or simply believed are still remembered and dwelled upon in Sleeping and of course are no longer Real. For it is only the ever anew Moment that is Real. And the Moment you Realize that you are IN/AS the Moment it is already part of the past and so is also not Real.
->zo, from here i would conjecture that the more the Moment is Direktly ->Experienced the fuller/richer/deeper ->our lives will have been when we finally shuffle off this mortal koil...
Not at all. In fact, the conditioned beliefs based on Fear are "fuller/richer/deeper" and more attached to than even the Directly Experienced ones. Think about it.
->till then Yoda, i am all ears,
Indeed you do *hear* Dear Friend, but not always do you *Listen*. And there is a vast difference betwixt the two {8->
->ps: i am entertaining the notion that the Moment is eternal -> & if this is so, kan one walk, oops, - kan one Be in the Moment -> at one's leisure? becuz sumtimes i like to go into the Attic -> & rummage thru sum of my auld stuph...
*Roaring Laughter* The ever anew Present Moment is Eternal and Infinite because it is Timeless. So, alas, there is no Time to leisurely step in and out or to rummage (especially through old stuff).
Subject: ewe-nitty of one
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:43:10 -0700
this is a post from another list... i present it here becuz, while replying spontaneously to mike on that other list, i became aware of how many koncepts & ideas i have absorbed from Oasis...
like a good maoist, i present it here for kriticism, in the sense of misrepresenting or misunderstanding sum of the koncepts that are diskussed here... possibly also for self aggrandizement cuz i like my replies... i know, who are you, what is mine, etc...
hi mike,
(u):"We are already connected to all things in all of creation. And yes we will realize it fully in time."
(me): there is no time, there is only the Moment IN/AS she IS NOW... peering into the 'future' is as fruitful as watching klouds or the waves krashing in on the shore, tho kloud & sea watching at least have some esthetik & oft times emotional valu...
(u):"Usually this realization comes with the transti0on from the physical upon death of the physical body. The so called veils are lifted and in most cases the veils are put back into place as we choose to return for more experiences on the physical until that time that we have made the conscious integrations with our higher aspects and no longer need to return to the dense dimensional level we find ourselves at today."
(me): i have sum diffikulty here with the word 'choose' & the phrase 'no longer need to return to the dense dimensional level we find ourselves at today.'
kan u see, mike, where the juxtaposition of 'choose' & 'need' may kause sum konfusion... why wud we 'choose' to return if our goal is 'needing' to avoid returning to the dense dimensional level we find ourselves at today...
the word 'we' is also, suspekt, my friends... we, as in all of us, or we in the sense of likeminded?
i myself have no problem with this, as u kall it: 'dense dimensional level'... i enjoy Being here, mike, to me it is not dense, methinks it is only perspektive that makes it so... i kan be a legless frog with my eyes peering out from the swamp, or i kan be the eagles soaring proud & free & 'looking down' on that which is below... like legless frogs... tho, in truth, i am neither... i am the fruit of the Moment & have nothing to embrace but the air...
(u):"Yes, there are alot of peole that just go with the flow and have no sense of urgency on the issue."
(me) i am one of those...
(you):"But, on the other hand especially in these magnifiscent times, there are those that hear the knocking on the door from their higher presences telling them" Hey you, time to wake up, Cleanse , Clean , Purify, The time is now , we have very important things to do which need to be realized at this time in your physical consciousness for very specific reasons."
(me): what are those reasons, mike, if u don't mind my asking... & what is there to kleanse, klean & purity... & why the CAPITOLS???
(you): "These are the people that we are reaching out to. And the people that have heard the calling and are confused as how to proceed or possibly they have found themselves unbalanced for one of many possible reasons and do not know where to go from there. All in all, there are always two sides of the coin and I thank you for your reply. Namaste.....
(me): but it is only one koin, minted by the mint that mints all the koins...
take gentle care, mike isadore ducasse
please note that i have borrowed a phrase from vinnie & also the (u)(me) device from renee without asking their permission... i suppose i shud have affixed these acknowledgments to the post... my apologies...
Subject: not to be noxious -but
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:52:04 -0700
mr light,
(me):i am entertaining the notion that the Moment is eternal & if this is so, kan one walk, oops, - kan one Be in the Moment at one's leisure? becuz sumtimes i like to go into the Attic & rummage thru sum of my auld stuph...
(you):...*Roaring Laughter* The ever anew Present Moment is Eternal and Infinite because it is Timeless. So, alas, there is no Time to leisurely step in and out or to rummage (especially through old stuff).
(me): okay, there is no time, tho assuredly there is the ever anew Present Moment... let me rephraze my statement then: kan one sleep, awake & then choose to sleep again as a recreation, a sport & a pastime, temporarily, momentarily, as a form of mental hygene? & even as a form of compassion?
i know: how kan the sleeper have compassion for anything else but his sleep... conversely, kan the awakened know anything of the dreams of the sleeper except what he himself knew while he himself wuz once a sleeper... may i offer that even the awakened at sum time sleep... though they may know it not... the mantrams of the awake & the mantrams of the asleep, though different in their applikation are, after all, still mantrams - only the sound is different.... WHACK
may i also offer that sleep is as hard to let go of as it is to stay awake... ask the awakened if they are awake: 'sertainly, i'm awake' tho at that Moment, truly they are sleeping - or nodding off - becuz they have hijacked the Moment... they are owning it...
which brings me to ask: must one always be in the moment, must one always be awake becuz i believe that without sleep there can be no awakening; conversely without awakening there kan be no sleep - the natural world tells me that... all duality is One, tho every One has two sides... as above, so below... they have sunrises & sunsets in Sparta, the same as they do in Alexandria or Timbuktu: we sleep & we awaken & in both cases i kan (relatively speaking) winnow the chaff from the wheat...
what i kant do, weirdly enuff, is the goosestep...
Subject: Re: ewe-nitty of one
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:53:44 -0500
:) Hi Volker;
you said; "please note that i have borrowed a phrase from vinnie & also the (u)(me) > device from renee without asking their permission... i suppose i shud have > affixed these acknowledgments to the post... my apologies..."
feel free :) don't recall saying anything worth borrowing but help yourself.
Be minful, be happy, be well;
Subject: Re: not to be noxious -but
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 04:58:12 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->(me):i am entertaining the notion that the Moment is eternal ->& if this is so, kan one walk, oops, - kan one Be in the Moment at one's ->leisure? becuz sumtimes i like to go into the Attic & rummage thru sum of ->my auld stuph... -> ->(you):...*Roaring Laughter* The ever anew Present Moment is Eternal and ->Infinite because it is Timeless. So, alas, there is no Time to leisurely ->step in and out or to rummage (especially through old stuff). -> ->(me): okay, there is no time, tho assuredly there is the ever anew Present ->Moment... let me rephraze my statement then: kan one sleep, awake & then ->choose to sleep again as a recreation, a sport & a pastime, temporarily, ->momentarily, as a form of mental hygene? & even as a form of compassion?
First, your statement is full of fallacies. You can not "choose to sleep" and then "choose" to Wake-Up and then again "choose" to go back to Sleep. Awakening, there is no choice in the matter. Try it, then you will Understand what is meant. Secondly, once you Open that Door to Awakening you will never get it quite closed again. Like a wooden door in wet weather, it is a bugger to get open but once you do it is even harder to get back closed. IN/AS Awakening, there is no closing it once it is Opened.
->i know: how kan the sleeper have compassion for anything else but his ->sleep... conversely, kan the awakened know anything of the dreams of the ->sleeper except what he himself knew while he himself wuz once a sleeper... ->may i offer that even the awakened at sum time sleep... though they may know ->it not... the mantrams of the awake & the mantrams of the asleep, though ->different in their applikation are, after all, still mantrams - only the ->sound is different....
Indeed Sleeping we can not Truly fathom Awakening for we have never Directly Experienced it. Yet Awakening we Understand Sleeping because we were Sleeping once upon a time. Sleeping we only understand Sleeping because that is all we know. Awakening we Understand both Awakening and Sleeping because we have Directly Experienced both. And you are mistaken about the "mantrams". The "mantram" of Sleeping is "harbor conditioned notions" whereas the "mantram" of Awakening is "let go of conditioned notions". So the "mantrams" are not the same in application or in Sound.
->may i also offer that sleep is as hard to let go of as it is to stay ->awake...
*Deep Bow*
->ask the awakened if they are awake: 'sertainly, i'm awake' tho at ->that Moment, truly they are sleeping - or nodding off - becuz they have ->hijacked the Moment... they are owning it...
*Roaring Laughter* First, you will shock the Awakening if you ask them if they are Awake because they do not know. They are Totally Mindless that way. And since they have no clue as to their Awakening, also they have not clue that they are IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. For you see, they ARE Awakening and they ARE the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment -- therefore they *have* neither. That is why they can not *give* it to anyone, they do not *have* it.
->which brings me to ask: must one always be in the moment, must one always be ->awake becuz i believe that without sleep there can be no awakening;
First, *believe* nothing but rather try it and find out for yourself. Awakening IS IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment, yet, paradoxically, it is True that if we were not Sleeping there would be no need to start Awakening because we would BE Awakening already. But we have collected all that conditioned baggage that now we have to get rid of. If we had not collected it in the first place we would be Awake. You see, our True Nature IS already Awake it is that we can not Realize that due to our conditioned modus operandi.
->conversely without awakening there kan be no sleep -
*Roaring Laughter* Your True Nature IS Awakening so there can not be a state of "without awakening". We have collected all those conditioned sleeping pills so now we have to Wake-Up again and get back to our natural state of BEing Awakening.
-> the natural world tells ->me that... all duality is One,
No, the conditioned world is telling you that Duality is One. And you have been bamboozled {8->
-> tho every One has two sides... as above, so ->below...
*Roaring Laughter* You are much cause for adding humor here. There is no more One than there is two sides, but rather All IS What-IS. As Above IS As Below, as is As Below IS As Above. You misunderstand the Hermetic term.
-> they have sunrises & sunsets in Sparta, the same as they do in ->Alexandria or Timbuktu:
The sun sets ? The sun rises ? Though there is movement in the Cosmos, the sun seemingly rising and setting is but an Illusion Dear Friend. Perhaps you have been looking at the sun too much {8->
-> sleep & we awaken & in both cases i kan ->(relatively speaking) winnow the chaff from the wheat...
Obviously all you have "winnowed" is the shaft because as far as can be ascertained there is no wheat on the sun even in the Illusive rising and setting {8->
->what i kant do, weirdly enuff, is the goosestep...
What do you think you are doing ?
Subject: Re: Allegory
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:42:08 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Hi Renee! Hey . . . I did my "time" and now have been "let out" to vibrate as I need to without all the restrictions of the "working world" . . . hehehehe!
(((Love))) Gary PS: I'll have to go peek at my web site and see how it is . . . it's been neglected for a VERY long time, and so much has changed with the ISP. I'll let you know "down the road" as they say in Boston
Subject: Re: OT - thank you Vinny + ?? !
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:47:20 +0200
Hi Vinny, Last night, I used some free time and fresh download quota ;-) to hand myself some prime free e-mail books from angelreiki. You've worked hard too at keeping things nice and fresh and available. Keeps me fresh too <s> Many thanks for the sharing you do. Not the right place perhaps to pop this in, so apologies all if you take umbrance. Kindest regards and many thanks Wombat:) PS ..... many moons ago, one of you here wrote some things from Jalal Al-Din Rumi... I don't know who that was, but I have to say *thank you* to that person - I found myself a beautiful little translation, an exquisite little book it is, and the thoughts profound :-)
Subject: Re: Guru
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 06:11:57 GMT
Greetings Community,
It has been asked: ->What is a guru? ->I really need a guru? ->A guru is free? ->In what time a guru let me ready? ->Can I have a guru?
~ Who Is Your Guru ~
Who is your Guru just a rubber chick Is the message thin or is it quite thick, Long or short circle's upside down Wordlessly speaking do not frown.
Who is your Guru go now to see It is your center of what you'll be, What have you done on your own No doubt nothing not been shown.
Who is your Guru give thanks for sure For what you'll never again have to endure, Have you given back what's given to you An unspoken Law that must be held True.
Who is the Guru for those open wide Who may look to you to be at their side, And need your Wisdom what you've found To get them planted on a solid ground.
Who is the Guru who gives to another What you were given comrade and brother, In times of need we must do our share For as we so needed a Guru was there.
Who is the Guru who makes no sound Nowhere to be had nowhere to be found, It is in your bosom as a wingless flight It is in your actions as well as in your Light.
You are the Guru you must take your turn Give yourself unto others so they may Learn, We can pay our Guru great tribute indeed By being half the Guru to another in need.
-- Yogajyotii
{o o} ^^^^^ "What if you Slept, and what if in your Sleep you Dreamed, and what if in your Dream you glimpsed Reality and there you Realized a strange and beautiful Truth, and what if when you awoke you Realized that you had not been Dreaming ? What then ?" -- Yogajyotii
Subject: Re: Allegory
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 06:44:07 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Dear, dear Renee ~ Since you have 'fessed up to being a "lurker longer than you think" . . . than you must know that there are no "rules" to be broken in this Oasis. It is requested only that one respect another's posting and to not "attack" that one who is posting. As for the site, even I cannot find it at this time, since all the changes were made with my ISP. I know that it is in the system, just a question of making time to deal with it. The "moment" just hasn't arrived . . . yet!
Subject: Recue Game
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 07:09:42 -0700
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Found this part of the Newsletter interesting for myself as I have had to self analyze my intentions and what exactly I am doing right now... I did spend years in the rescue game, thinking that if I just tried harder, things would change, if I loved more, did more, things would change. It never worked for me why would it work for anyone else?
Stay Out of the Rescue Game One of the sneaky ways we can try to avoid being in the present is to project into the future and become attached to things we think we see there.
My problem was being in the thick of things, not projecting into the future, but knowing underneath these addictions there was a spirit inside that was crying to get out. Underneath the anxiety and fear, there was a kind and loving person. Yet, the addiction was their way of avoiding the pain and suffering, just to continue living in pain and suffering in a different way. Well, at least the name of the pain was different.
That impulse is, I believe, behind a lot of the urges we have to rescue others, along with feeling that we are only valuable when we are giving something to others.
I gave up rescuing. The point I make now is to allow another to take responsibility for their own live. My Brother got out of detox and it took him exactly a day to buy another bottle and he thought he was good at hiding it from us. Not possible, but he thought he was doing a good job. Last night a repeat of the past, Dad hid his wallet so he couldn't go and buy more booze, the argument began all over again. Two kids fighting over a toy.I listened to this argument for about an hour, then said, give him his wallet and allow him to fall on his face he has to. Quit protecting him and let him hit his own bottom. He's not going to learn as long as you keep trying to save him. He's not going to quit for you or anyone else, until he learns to quit for himself or dies. Many people have offered him tools to save himself and he doesn't use them, it is up to him and him alone.
The idea is to get back to the now, which is the only place you really can take action to help yourself and others effectively.
Yes, true. I wash walls, do the yard work, paint a few rooms and do the chores that they can't do.
Recognize that everyone has their own inner power, and their own Higher Power. How will someone find their own if, every time they try, you offer yours instead?
For years I gave away my power, until I had nothing left but a shell. I see this in others and yet, even my lessons can not save them until they are ready to detach from what they hang to. Every day I hear I hear what my brother used to do, how he was, and yet he has been tied into addictions longer than he was the way they remember.
Affirm that you and everyone else not only has personal power but can easily access it whenever you choose. Helping is really about showing others how to ride the bicycle, not getting on the bike and taking their ride away from them.
I don't do that any more but it is the message I keep repeating to deaf ears.
Get your own needs met. That way, you won't be looking for others to do for you that which you are unwilling or unable to do for yourself. When you are fully in your own power, you don't need to rescue others to feel OK about yourself.
I feel good about myself, over whelmed at the list of physical jobs I have to at times and the one thing that prevents me from it, is the never ending rainy days. Can't paint when its raining.
And you will know that other people really can cross the finish line without you, and you can feel good about that.
Hell, I'd be at the ribbon cheering.
Be honest with yourself. Every thought focused on what is wrong with someone else (that might need "fixing") is a missed opportunity to be honest with yourself. Look inward, angel! What needs fixing in YOU?
What needs fixing in me is the sadness I feel when I see so many suffering needlessly and keeping quiet about the quick sand I know that lies directly in their path. Knowing that warning them will do no good.
Get a life! While this statement is often meant as a put-down, there is wisdom in it. What is your life like? What are you avoiding? How could you make your own life so rich that you would not notice what others are doing except to love them and celebrate their lives?
Are you saying that we are busy bodies interfering in others lives and shouldn't pay attention? How can we not observe and hear what is happening? How can we not feel compassion and not feel their fears within ourselves through recognition of being there, done that, or are still being there doing that? My own life is painting right now, meeting new people, a new job and a new project, always on the move, not stuck inside every day. What could be better than a little sunshine to help me get out there. Baby sitting for my Grand babies now and then, having them closer is very nice.
Get busy working on the plan that will take you where you want to be, and get a life that is really worth living. If yours isn't like that yet, why not? And if not now, when? Life is too short and too precious to spend even one minute not doing what you love.
I work towards making enough cash to get my own place, to have solitude and still allow me to help out without being in the middle of everything.
Are you enabling someone? Realize that your "rescue attempts" may be enabling someone to continue addictive or abusive patterns. Take a co-dependency test* and check out your weaknesses in this area; work with your coach to get beyond your issues.
There is a difference between enabling and allowing.A fine line that has to do with intention. Everyone has to learn where that boundary is and realize no matter how painful we know it is to fall, we have to allow them to do just that. And keep our mouths shut.
Set better boundaries and keep your hands out of it. Let them make their mistakes and learn what they need to learn. If you deprive them of their lessons, you will weaken them, not help them. Just love them and live your own life.
And help where and how you can with other things. Like mowing the lawn.
There is an old saying: "If you want to feed a person for a day, catch a fish for them; if you want to feed a person for a lifetime, teach them to fish." Do you really want someone else to depend on you for their survival and strength?
My message to my brother is " if you want to quit, do it right, go to AA, get a sponsor, get counselling and you can not do it alone. If you don't want to quit, then don't quit, just quit playing the game of quitting.....
If so, maybe it's time to take a hard look at yourself. Ask your coach to help you discover better ways to focus your energy and time.
Ok, list of coaches....teach me......
Ask yourself why you need to be a hero. Is your hero-need bigger than their need for self-empowerment? Your need to be a hero is not about them, it's about something in you that is not getting fully satisfied.
Whats not satisfying? The ability to take my Mom garage sale-ing in spite of what goes on within the house. Unsatisfied to let her know its okay to enjoy your life in spite of what others do. Talking to a wall......The lack of right words or the lack of hearing and knowing the difference?
Cut away your needs from the picture, and see how different it looks. Be someone in their lives who believes in them. Check out anything inside that tells you they can't or won't succeed, and work on changing your attitude. It's counterproductive for you and for them to harbor doubts that tempt you to interfere.
I know they could succeed if they allowed themselves to. I won't do what they do which is enable the addiction but try to explain to them that it is not their addiction so enjoy what they can about their own lives. He is sucking all their energy and they wonder why they are always sick and tired.
The anger last night between the Brother and Dad seems to have taken on a new dimension. Dad stole his wallet, wouldn't give it back, Darrell yells at him not to interfere with his life, and Dad says he has to because his brain is gone, Darrell yells back that one day he will kill him if he doesn't leave him alone. Dad doesn't learn or listen. If that one day happens, it happens. What's hard is understanding both sides anger with each other. But its their karma, and I sit back knowing the drama must be played out. Some days I feel it is inevitable.... and I have to allow it.
Give the other person the space to work it out their own way, and you just may BE a real hero then. This doesn't mean to turn your back on them -- far from it! Your quiet support and encouragement could give them the extra confidence to stretch more and reach for a star -- and then grab it!
Do you realize how hard this is? Sitting back listening to this, watching this knowing I can't interfere. And feeling guilty some days because it's been going on to long. In 12 years one would think there would be some progress somewhere. Or should I say in fourty years, since it started at birth?
Oh well, time to go sale-ing and see what prize I can find today............and if the sun comes out, I can paint those steps for that old couple across the river........ All in all it will be a good day.......
Subject: Re: Recue Game
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 14:57:07 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Are you saying that we are busy bodies interfering in others lives and ->shouldn't pay attention?
Not necessarily, just that it is Wiser to have our own house in order before we try to instruct another how to get their's in order.
->How can we not observe and hear what is happening? How can we not feel ->compassion and not feel their fears within ourselves through recognition of ->being there, done that, or are still being there doing that?
We can not nor would we want to be oblivious to what is happening around us, but our observations of others would be more fruitful when accompanied by practice.
->My message to my brother is " if you want to quit, do it right, go to AA, ->get a sponsor, get counselling and you can not do it alone. ->If you don't want to quit, then don't quit, just quit playing the game of ->quitting.....
*Deep Bow*
->Oh well, time to go sale-ing and see what prize I can find ->today............and if the sun comes out, I can paint those steps for that ->old couple across the river........
Thank you for all the wonderful Sharing, keep up the Journal here because you are not the only one it Helps.
->All in all it will be a good day.......
YES ! There can never really be a so called *bad day* when we make sure that they are always *good days*. Both successes and failures are nothing more than Lessons, and all Lessons are *Good* {8->
~ It Too Will Pass ~
Get your eyes checked there's no double vision Just Illusion of a Duality appearing to be division, All the particulars are all in your head even God So do not think it strange that his Will to be odd.
The Cosmos IS as is all multiple particulars ARE No matter where you go you can not get too far, So how could all this produce all of this AS it IS And still only be all of this or is it just a Show Biz.
It is quite Clear that there could be no beginning What could cause the thickening and thinning, Got to get rid of these notions they will so defile As they arise and fall they can only stay a while.
As there is no such choice there is no such Will Ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment Still, It only arises in your head not IN/AS your BEing And will surely display your double vision seeing.
It is a slight of hand you think it is magic though Only just a mental game you can't come and go, We fool ourself mostly out of a conditioned Fear Or out of the Desire to be able to See and Hear.
You can't mix the Two because there's only One And not One as Single but as The Totality done, What-IS is All AS it IS as IN/AS a certain Reality Unattached IN/AS this unprojected NonDuality.
All the knowns in the world can never Save you For our knowns are our Illusions so are not True, Our True Nature is in it's BEing not just the mind As it is not to be held or found it we can not bind.
The mind is the Tool we use to Realize the Truth Becoming Empty it is our very Fountain of Youth, Polishing the Mirror of Truth so as ourself to See IN/AS that Refection IS our only Salvation to BE.
So use the mind as your strength and your Friend For it can peer ever so Deeply right up to it's End, Thus it too must pass IN/AS Awakening Unfolded As IN/AS such a state of BEing will not be molded.
2001 - Yogajyotii
Subject: Re: Recue Game
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 15:26:49 -0700
Greetings yourself, EJ,
>Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: >->Are you saying that we are busy bodies interfering in others lives and >->shouldn't pay attention? > > Not necessarily, just that it is Wiser to have our own house in order >before we try to instruct another how to get their's in order.
I don't have a house , lol.....therefore it must be in order..just kidding.
>->How can we not observe and hear what is happening? How can we not feel >->compassion and not feel their fears within ourselves through recognition of >->being there, done that, or are still being there doing that? > > We can not nor would we want to be oblivious to what is happening >around us, but our observations of others would be more fruitful when >accompanied by practice.
The only thing I can practise is not becoming involved in the game as it is being played. I don't drink so already live by example that way. I don't preach to them so get no preaching back. I do get confused so if that adds to the confusion, then I am not sure how not to be confused.
>->Oh well, time to go sale-ing and see what prize I can find >->today............and if the sun comes out, I can paint those steps for that >->old couple across the river........ > > Thank you for all the wonderful Sharing, keep up the Journal here >because you are not the only one it Helps.
Sharing has become allot easier over the last few years. Before that there was nothing to share, because I was the perfect one. ha ha.....well, thats what I thought, IF ONLY...others knew that, THEN, things would be different......what a victim I was...I laugh now at my ignorance and embarrassment....
>->All in all it will be a good day....... > > YES ! There can never really be a so called *bad day* when we make >sure that they are always *good days*. Both successes and failures are >nothing more than Lessons, and all Lessons are *Good* {8->
YA hoo, got the steps painted, if the weather holds, the porch will get done tomorrow, whether the people are home or not. Gotta catch it when I can.......
>~ It Too Will Pass ~ > >Get your eyes checked there's no double vision >Just Illusion of a Duality appearing to be division, >All the particulars are all in your head even God >So do not think it strange that his Will to be odd.
There is nothing that would surprise me any more. Well, if there is I have yet to see it, some things seem odd though I do have to admit, but it is all apart of the what is..........
>The Cosmos IS as is all multiple particulars ARE >No matter where you go you can not get too far, >So how could all this produce all of this AS it IS >And still only be all of this or is it just a Show Biz.
Everything that happens is a part of the whole.......its all drama and show biz....... until one becomes aware of their own parts.
>It is quite Clear that there could be no beginning >What could cause the thickening and thinning,
Hmmm, are speaking of waistlines or hair? lol
>Got to get rid of these notions they will so defile >As they arise and fall they can only stay a while.
Just for a moment......
>As there is no such choice there is no such Will >Ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment Still, >It only arises in your head not IN/AS your BEing >And will surely display your double vision seeing.
Are we speaking of duality here.......seeing what we want to see through conditioned thinking, the either or?
>It is a slight of hand you think it is magic though >Only just a mental game you can't come and go, >We fool ourself mostly out of a conditioned Fear >Or out of the Desire to be able to See and Hear.
Conditioned fear is the source of desire......same thing.
>You can't mix the Two because there's only One >And not One as Single but as The Totality done, >What-IS is All AS it IS as IN/AS a certain Reality >Unattached IN/AS this unprojected NonDuality.
Yes, I get the message......its always what is within the present moment...........
>All the knowns in the world can never Save you >For our knowns are our Illusions so are not True,
yes, do the best you can within the moment...intellect will fool you every time.
>Our True Nature is in it's BEing not just the mind >As it is not to be held or found it we can not bind.
Hang on to nothing, what was is not what is, it may be similar but it is the same.....Like twins, they may look alike but are totally different.
>The mind is the Tool we use to Realize the Truth >Becoming Empty it is our very Fountain of Youth,
I'm all for getting younger and remembering less, I still slip up from time to time, but even the slip is done quite well.........:)
>Polishing the Mirror of Truth so as ourself to See >IN/AS that Refection IS our only Salvation to BE.
Look deep into my eyes.....deeper ......deeper........are you asleep yet?
>So use the mind as your strength and your Friend >For it can peer ever so Deeply right up to it's End, >Thus it too must pass IN/AS Awakening Unfolded >As IN/AS such a state of BEing will not be molded.
Right......we can not fashion our own awakening after anothers...
Just a babbling brook.....
Subject: Re: Recue Game/Thanks from Gary
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 18:03:49 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Dear Shar, Just got the 'flash' to write and say "Thank you" for sharing so much of yourSelf. Unfortunately, within the ' organization ' of the world's human community, (most) children are prone to turn from BEing an innocent guru to Pinocchio for the Grand Trickster(s) pleasures. By the time they (the children) can get their opportunity to cut themSelves free from the puppeteers' strings, the 'harm' has already been done and ' habits ' learned have taken hold. Fortunate are those (kids) that grow up parent with the understanding (of this phenomena) ; and I have met a few! I was never jealous of them, but must admit to having being envious and thought - ' How lucky they are ! ' Today ~ in my more matured years, I have come to realize that ' luck ' has nothing to do with anything. I can only be thankful that I had the ' smarts ' back in those yearlings days of my life, to see the difference and did what had to be done to extricate mySelf from the ties. The price was high, but worth ever shekel. What I am (trying) to say here is ~ your postings, and those of other's so willing to share, have helped me much, and I can only trust that I am doing likewise in my own sharing that will do the same.
Subject: Re: Recue Game/Thanks from Gary
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 02:10:48 GMT
Greetings Brook,
Thanks for babbling {8->
Greetings Gary, you wrote: -> Just got the 'flash' to write and say "Thank you" for sharing so much of yourSelf. Unfortunately, within the ' organization ' of the world's human community, (most) children are prone to turn from BEing an innocent guru to Pinocchio for the Grand Trickster(s) pleasures.
Indeed, a sad commentary on greater humanity. And we who understand this now are not exempt, for we brainwashed our kids as our parents did us. There is no one to blame for it has been with us since time immemerable, but now that we know we are to blame when we do nothing about it. And a good place to start is with the very kids that we defiled with the conditioning, our own. Let them know that we are sorry for setting them up to have to go trough the arduous Painful struggle to get rid of it, but Point out where they are passing the disease on to yet another generation (our grand kids). The chains must be cut somewhere. "Why ?", one may ask. If for no other reason, to establish the Harmony and Peace and Brotherhood that everyone longs for back into the human family. For no other reason, to make conflict and greed and war and crime and hate the exception rather than the rule (as is the norm now). That in itself is well worth the effort. No ? Nothing else has worked.
-> By the time they (the children) can get their opportunity to cut themSelves free from the puppeteers' strings, the 'harm' has already been done and ' habits ' learned have taken hold. Fortunate are those (kids) that grow up parent with the understanding (of this phenomena) ; and I have met a few! I was never jealous of them, but must admit to having being envious and thought - ' How lucky they are ! '
And it is due to efforts like yours and many others who are continually Pointing out the Causes of humanity's Suffering, their conditioned thinking and behavior. You who have Helped others to cut their chains, have made them most fortunate.
-> Today ~ in my more matured years, I have come to realize that ' luck ' has nothing to do with anything. I can only be thankful that I had the ' smarts ' back in those yearlings days of my life, to see the difference and did what had to be done to extricate mySelf from the ties. The price was high, but worth ever shekel.
Your "matured years" ? When are you changing your name to *Ancient One* {8-> True, it is not luck that some *see the writing on the wall* and others do not. Each of us carries with us the history of our particular Evolution/Involution Unfolding Awakening, and that history is as different as DNA -- there are no two precisely the same. Some only need a good Whack to shake them back to Reality. Some, the author here included, need many many Whacks just to start Waking-Up. The cranium is not created equal, for some have harder heads than others {8->
-> What I am (trying) to say here is ~ your postings, and those of other's so willing to share, have helped me much, and I can only trust that I am doing likewise in my own sharing that will do the same.
*Deep Bow* Indeed you are an asset to this Oasis Community and your offerings most rewarding Wonderful Friend. A credit to Helping and Serving those who actually do want to start Awakening. It is a pleasure that you are with us. And to show our gratitude we are going to start the *Conveyor Project* at the Community. The *Conveyor Project* is removing the sidewalks and replacing them with conveyors so the Ancient Ones will not tire so quickly as they Walk around {8->
Subject: Re: Recue Game/Thanks from Gary
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 20:41:05 -0600
> Your "matured years" ? When are you changing your name to *Ancient > One* {8-> > I am like an old pair of leather shoe ~ well worn, but worn well! :))
. . . and as for . . . .
> The *Conveyor Project* is removing > the sidewalks and replacing them with conveyors so the Ancient Ones will > not tire so quickly as they Walk around {8-> >
good thinking! Well appreciated, especially in my case . . . hahaha!
(((Love)))
Subject: Re: Recue Game/Thanks from Gary
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 06:59:50 -0700
> > >Greetings Gary, you wrote: >-> Just got the 'flash' to write and say "Thank you" for sharing so >much of yourSelf. Unfortunately, within the ' organization ' of the >world's human community, (most) children are prone to turn from BEing an >innocent guru to Pinocchio for the Grand Trickster(s) pleasures. > >Shar: And to you for all of yours. We as parents are all guilty of >conditioning our children in one way or another. I think mostly because it >was the way grew up. Ignorant to the damage it can cause. Slowly tho we >are learning, and we can have an effect on changing family dynamics >through our grandchildren and children, no one is too old to learn. After >all, as EJ says, he will put in conveyors. > > Some only need a >good Whack to shake them back to Reality. Some, the author here included, >need many many Whacks just to start Waking-Up. The cranium is not created >equal, for some have harder heads than others {8->
Shar: Big sigh.........I could go to one of those head readers and they would know how many stupid things I needed a whack for.
>-> What I am (trying) to say here is ~ your postings, and those of >other's so willing to share, have helped me much, and I can only trust >that I am doing likewise in my own sharing that will do the same.
Shar: Thanks Gary, the same for yours and others that speak from experience, which is everyone, when I think about it. Picked up a couple of books on Tough Love yesterday that I found at a garage sale, placed them by Dad's chair as a hint that maybe he could pick one up and gain from it, since he doesn't listen to me. Then I went painting the steps for the elderly couple. The sun was out but the wind was dam cold. Today we have blue skies, fresh snow on the mountains, more than we had all winter it appears, so we may get high water afterall.......If it warms up on the mountain tops.
I think today I will go and prep the joey shack for painting this week. Look forward to doing Mac Donalds in both Terrace and Prince Rupert....I'll pass on the imitation foodstuff though......
Good day to all, Shar
Subject: Memories from the past . . .
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 00:26:43 -0600
. . . and how I am dealing with them!
Hello All! For those of you who know me in this Oasis, know that I have been (for a long time) carrying my baggage of anger which was a great burden for me. I have put it down, but haven't stepped away from it yet. It is not a question of ' Do I leave it behind as I move forward on this path of Awakening? ' Of this ~ I know I must! Just taking stock of what IS! I find that I am smiling to myself as I type this to share with you. It is really quite humorous ( for me ) despite the fact that it has been such a heavy burden to carry around for all these years; and it sure was not funny while I was doing it! I suppose this is what ' experience ' is all about when one is fully conscious of them (in the moment). One is able to { at some moment in time) realize what a foolhardy thing to do ~ carrying all the excess baggage around and being so attached to them! I do find that ' visualization ' is a wonderful tool for letting go of that which I don't want. It helps me to ' see ' what is of real value to me in my life, and what is simply garbage that has been laid on me as necessary to cope in this world and to which I have become attached. This for me is what "Awakening" is all about ~ opening my eyes from the sleep of delusion to that which IS reality! This morning I was doing my usual cursory reading of the daily news when my eyes caught the article on the Pope's current tour - especially his apologies to the members of Eastern Greek Orthodox. It just boggled my mind, and perhaps was the trigger to set my own house in order (so to speak.) I make clear that I ' blame ' no one for what happened to me; I see it simply as a learning of that which was passed down from generation to generation. I have the responsibility to put and end to this misguided teaching, starting with mySelf. Memories are going to accompany me for the rest of my present incarnation, but I have no need to live in those memories . . . not anymore. Thanks for ' listening ' to my ramble . . . I feel so much lighter and am able to move on IN each moment with more Awareness since I don't have this excess baggage to "worry" about.
Subject: The Ray today.......
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 07:11:15 -0700
Let him go ! YOU house him, YOU feed him, YOU make his bed, YOU give him power of attorney over you, so YOU must let him go. Indeed, the Grand Trickster will offer you dominion over the world, yet what you want dominion over is not the world. You want, dominion over yourself.
Yes, even though I hear you, its nice to have constant reminders. Alas, sigh, sometimes I do let things get to me.......
We must maintain a constant vigilance unsurpassed by any attention in the deepest contemplation. A constant preoccupation of alertness and Mindfulness is of paramount importance. A seeming insurmountable task, though a must to continue Awakening.
Oh my God, (so to speak,) not insurmountable, just not easy....
The Journey upon the Path of Awakening can not be taken lightly. For when your guard is down, the Grand Trickster will be there to help you keep it down. Every Moment, your Full Attention must be IN/AS that Moment and nowhere else, for the Grand Trickster will never be found IN/AS the Moment. IN/AS the Moment is the one place that the Grand Trickster is not.
It's true! I know from experience.....
Wise but bold, that FEW have been able to enforce. Well worth the effort to enforce, but do not think it an easy task.
It's a darn hard one.
Spiritual Icons of yore as well as some in the news these days (and some not in the news yet), with large followings, have succumb to the will of the Grand Trickster.
And we shall wait.........but not with baited breath.......
For us, mere Students On the Path, we must maintain a constant vigilance unsurpassed by any attention in the deepest contemplation. A constant preoccupation of alertness and Mindfulness is of paramount importance. A seeming insurmountable task, though a must to continue Awakening.
And not just that, we or at least I, need a whack along with it from time to time.....
I do not say this to discourage, but rather to Point out that the Journey upon the Path of Awakening can not be taken lightly. For when your guard is down, the Grand Trickster will be there to help you keep it down. Every Moment, your Full Attention must be IN/AS that Moment and nowhere else, for the Grand Trickster will never be found IN/AS the Moment. IN/AS the Moment is the one place that the Grand Trickster is not.
This is what we call "Home Free" or a neutral zone...
May I offer in clarity, there is no right or wrong in the Awakening observation of errors. Rather, errors being that which impedes or stands in the way of Awakening. That is, the Open Honest unconditioned observation of the conditioned notions Veiling Awakening and the expression to another of such.
Sounds like permission to vent, share and journal with others to help us along the way....Feedback is greatly appreciated at all times. Sharing examples is also helpful, for those who have been there done that, I can use those as tools for my own struggling along the path......
So the errors would apply to anyone and everyone who's thinking and behavior is erroneous relative to Awakening.
I feel at times, in hindsight, that I have erred, in repeating reactions instead of responding...... I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken? lol
The wise, as you aptly expressed, would receive the expression of such unconditioned observations as treats to nourish them.
As food for thought.......yes
On the other hand, the Sleeping would *react* in defiance because the Grand Trickster wants the strings to his puppets to remain intact.
Yup, can relate to this as well. Until I receive yet another whack on the head.......so I still wear my bright green helmet. Which just dawned on me...a better target for the stick..yikes.....
Speaking of Dawn, anyone heard from her since she left on her quest into the unknown world? Is her year up, or was 2 she signed up for?
Love to all
Subject: Re: Memories from the past . . .
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 06:28:48 -0700
Hi Gary, you wrote:
>. . . and how I am dealing with them!
Thanks for sharing,
>Hello All! > For those of you who know me in this Oasis, know that I have been > (for >a long time) carrying my baggage of anger which was a great burden for >me. I have put it down, but haven't stepped away from it yet. It is not >a question of ' Do I leave it behind as I move forward on this path of >Awakening? ' Of this ~ I know I must! Just taking stock of what IS!
Shar: Is it a matter of leaving it behind when it has brought you to where you are today? Or is it that we should leave the emotion and attachment to the past behind? I think when we can finally view the past for what it was without getting tied into it and carrying it with us, we can use it as a tool. For an example, my daughter is in the process of moving into her Fathers house, as he is leaving town in a couple of weeks. In helping her move and settle in, I have been thrown into his very presence. Of course there has been some remembering when times brought up and a few good laughs. I also have found that instead of getting tied into his ways of speaking, I am more aware of how I reacted or responded in the past to his ways. I find myself shaking my head in wonderment of my ignorance of times gone by. The past is always there, in our faces but we don't have to be always living in it. I also find myself caring for this person that I no longer live with. I also see how some people never change in their thinking. It is wonderful that we can now share our childrens lives with no anger passing between us. I also think that some of that is because I no longer react to his words.
> I find that I am smiling to myself as I type this to share with > you. It >is really quite humorous ( for me ) despite the fact that it has been >such a heavy burden to carry around for all these years; and it sure was >not funny while I was doing it!
I can relate to what you are saying here. Just as I need a reminder not to get tied into what is - in my life at the present. Some days it really gets to me. Then I receive a gentle reminder that I am not alone, only physically and mentally. Within moments of that reminder I can bring myself back into my center through awareness of back sliding.
>I suppose this is what ' experience ' is >all about when one is fully conscious of them (in the moment). One is >able to { at some moment in time) realize what a foolhardy thing to do ~ >carrying all the excess baggage around and being so attached to them!
Those moment of lightness when we lay down the cross we bear. This awakening stuff is not easy, detaching is not easy. We are bound into moments like this from time to time, but don't you find they become less and bouncing back into the moment is allot quicker?
> I do find that ' visualization ' is a wonderful tool for letting > go of >that which I don't want. It helps me to ' see ' what is of real value to >me in my life, and what is simply garbage that has been laid on me as >necessary to cope in this world and to which I have become attached. >This for me is what "Awakening" is all about ~ opening my eyes from the >sleep of delusion to that which IS reality!
Visualization is a wonderful tool, it can used in meditation to release the attachments we do have, or for the days we feel over whelmed with things we need to do.
> This morning I was doing my usual cursory reading of the daily news >when my eyes caught the article on the Pope's current tour - especially >his apologies to the members of Eastern Greek Orthodox. It just boggled >my mind, and perhaps was the trigger to set my own house in order (so to >speak.)
I may be wrong but I never read or watch the news. I find I have enough drama around me without it.
> I make clear that I ' blame ' no one for what happened to me; I > see it >simply as a learning of that which was passed down from generation to >generation. I have the responsibility to put and end to this misguided >teaching, starting with mySelf.
Right.....there is no one to blame for what you pass on or hang on too. We are not victims without giving ourselves permission to be one.
> Memories are going to accompany me for the rest of my present >incarnation, but I have no need to live in those memories . . . not >anymore.
As we have them, how we react or respond to them is our non-choice.....lol A non choice only because in the moment there is no past........ I have been finding that with the past thrown in face lately I can view it without attachment to it. It is what was, not what is...... I don't need to not remember, just to remember it is what was.
> Thanks for ' listening ' to my ramble . . . I feel so much > lighter and >am able to move on IN each moment with more Awareness since I don't have >this excess baggage to "worry" about.
I appreciate your rambling. I can use it as a tool for my own reminders. It's like having someone to share a few steps with along the non-path path.......That's bad English isn't it? lol But hey, you know what I mean........
Thanks Gary.
Subject: Re: Memories from the past . . .
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 17:18:55 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Shar: Is it a matter of leaving it behind when it has brought you to where you are today? Or is it that we should leave the emotion and attachment to the past behind? ______________________
Hi Shar ! Your example of your being brought back to the memories of your past with ex hubby is a good one. To be able to remember without getting caught up and attached to the emotion for what had transpired. I have a vivid imagination and the ability (damaging in some ways) to 'free flow' within that imagination and get caught up in the emotion. In those moments, when I forget where I am and journey back into the past, what was ~ expands (in my imagination) to pure undiluted illusions. In these moments, I catch myself feeling such anger, and as has been said: "If thoughts can kill . . ." some people who touched my life will have been; over an over again. Sometimes I wonder if that is not that part of me having an out of body experience . . .?? This was a VERY heavy cross that I dragged around with me and I am as certain as I can be . . . that had it continued, would eventually lead to my demise in a most excruciating manner. I was so aware of this that I prayed for release from this burden ~ to find a way to "let go". The memory of this 'suffering' is so painful that I am tearful as I type this. These tears however are cleansing. My (inner) child is so relieved that this segment of the journey is over. No doubt. coming here to the Oasis, and being able to share and release the emotions has been fruitful. Just knowing that one is not alone in these bizarre happenings, and to understand the dynamics of what IS happening is a tremendous aid.
(((Love)))
Subject: Re: Memories from the past . . .
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 01:27:41 GMT
Greetings Gary, you wrote: -<snip> -> The memory of this 'suffering' is so painful that I am tearful as I type this. These tears however are cleansing. My (inner) child is so relieved that this segment of the journey is over. -> No doubt. coming here to the Oasis, and being able to share and release the emotions has been fruitful. Just knowing that one is not alone in these bizarre happenings, and to understand the dynamics of what IS happening is a tremendous aid.
Yes Dear Friend, if this little Oasis Community does nothing more than act as a depository for people dropping off all that burdensome baggage to place in the incinerator Light Mission is most honored to be able to provide the incinerator. Some times a Whack or two helps to shake some of that clutter loose so it can be dropped off. And some times it just takes the Sharing of others to make us Realize that we are still carrying that baggage around.
For the zillionth time, glad you are here with us Wonderful Friend {8->
Subject: Re: Memories from the past . . .
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 19:45:18 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)
Thanks E. J. you are indeed a wonderful friend.
Subject: Inner Child.
From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 23:50:42 -0600
Today's Ray:
> One thing that we will Realize is that the Inner Child is not ego, but rather > that Divine Spark that was us BEFORE we were defiled by all the > conditioning that we have been bombarded with since our birth.
All too often, as an adult one pays no attention to one's Inner Child. One 'blossoms' into adulthood watered and fed with toxic conditioning. May be beautiful on the outside, but rotten and decaying on the inside. "Organically grown" ~ to borrow a modern idiom, the WHOLE (Holistic) is beauty in the purest form. One only has to look at the "wild" flowers, or those that have been grown nurtured with TLC.
This Inner Child of ME/I is the pure Essence of who I AM. HE is never afraid ~ fear is the making of the adult who has been conditioned to think that there is something to lose. To bare one's 'soul' is to open up to recognizing that which has made the Inner Child toxic. Only then, can healing begin.
Subject: Re: Memories from the past . . .Gary
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 22:17:13 -0700
> >Hi Shar !
Hi There Gary,
> Your example of your being brought back to the memories of your past > with ex hubby is a good one. To be able to remember without getting > caught up and attached to the emotion for what had transpired.
Yes, and for along time I was afraid of that type of closeness. I didn't feel anger towards him for many years, but never had the opportunity to really test it for more than a couple of hours. With this move, he's been around for hours at a time and there is nothing there but a sort of caring for him. An appreciation for what we shared beyond the pain.
> I have a vivid imagination and the ability (damaging in some ways) > to 'free flow' within that imagination and get caught up in the emotion. > In those moments, when I forget where I am and journey back into the > past, what was ~ expands (in my imagination) to pure undiluted illusions.
I can relate to this as well, not seeing the truth, but remembering happy times and wondering if the choices I made were the right ones. My denial consisted of not remembering the damage or hurts that did exist. The source of unworthiness. I think it was like my brother, an under lying sense of being controlled and calling it protected. Talk about rose coloured glasses.
> In these moments, I catch myself feeling such anger, and as has been > said: "If thoughts can kill . . ." some people who touched my life > will have been; over an over again. Sometimes I wonder if that is not > that part of me having an out of body experience . . .??
I'm not sure what you mean about out of body here, but I would say it was definitely recognizing that we are capable of what ever exists in this world. We are apart of all, and sometimes that all isn't what we call good. When I read the book, dark side of light chasers, the author spoke of accepting others by recognizing we are no different than them. We may not do what others do, but we do have the power to do what they do. Sometimes we may find ourselves judging others for what they do, because we deny that we are capable of doing the same thing. We hate to admit the dark sides of ourselves, we don't like to think we can be evil or bad like "THEY" are. I was also told by my counsellor some time back that it's okay to think those thoughts, to release the build up of anger,confusion and fear. IF we can think them, speak them, experience them, then the likely hood of acting out on them isn't so strong. We can't bury them and think they are gone or released by ignoring them , we have to work with them, speak them, fantasize them, any thing we can to recognize them, to become of them, to deal with them, then when they no longer hold any power over us, we can release them. This is not an easy process as denial of nasties is one of our stronger emotions or reactions. This is one of the benefits of repeating the words over and over out loud if we can find someone to listen. Verbal words hold less power than thoughts when released in the right settings with guidance or support. Although we stand alone, die alone, and seek aloneness, there are times when another is needed to walk beside us into the valley of death. The Valley of death is where we can leave that part behind and emerge into the light....... When I hit my darkest night, I tried to do alone at first, embarrassed to admit failure, defeat and ignorance. I found I couldn't handle it myself and had to reach out to a strong support system to help me through. To this day I am so grateful for wonderful friends that never seem to tire of my babbling.
> This was a VERY heavy cross that I dragged around with me and I am as > certain as I can be . . . that had it continued, would eventually lead > to my demise in a most excruciating manner. I was so aware of this that I > prayed for release from this burden ~ to find a way to "let go".
I totally understand and can empathize with your feelings here. I am very happy that you found us, it's the sharing openly and honestly with each other that truly makes us family. In such a way that most biological families can't or don't.
> The memory of this 'suffering' is so painful that I am tearful as I > type this. These tears however are cleansing. My (inner) child is so > relieved that this segment of the journey is over.
So am I relieved for you and can also relate to the tears. Each day I shed a few tears for those in my life who are suffering, each in their own way. Not just for dad and my Brother, but others that are also close to me. I also feel compassion for those who I know who will regret, and will not easily accept the death of my Father when it comes, or Darrell's if he keeps up with his addiction as strong as it is. Oh hell, I feel compassion and cry for the world sometimes and feel lost as to what will aid any of them find peace within themselves. Sometimes I cry just because I feel their pain and it's not my job to release it for them and sometimes forget to release it from myself.
> No doubt. coming here to the Oasis, and being able to share and > release the emotions has been fruitful. Just knowing that one is not > alone in these bizarre happenings, and to understand the dynamics of what > IS happening is a tremendous aid.
Amen to that Brother.......
Peace and love
Subject: Re: A Canadian request from Jedi Central
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:41:37 -0700
>Vinnie,
Hi ya ,,,,,,
> Yesterday he >fell in the sand box and scrapped his knee and a little drop of blood >appeared. My wife went to comfort him and he says, "it's ok mommy, I use >the force and proceeds to place his hands on his knee. > >So, I should check the "Jedi" box for religion for him when our census comes >around?
Sounds like it lol, and why not ???????? Good day to you and yours, good story by the way.........
Subject: Re: A Canadian request from Jedi Central
From: "Vinny Amador" <vinny@angelreiki.nu>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:44:58 -0500
Hi Sharlene!
HA HAHA;
this is funny!
let me pass on a Jedi story as well.
My littlest one, Gabriel is two. He likes Star Wars. Really Really likes star wars. He was worn out two copies of Episode One on video tape and worn out one copy each of the original three. Every thing is a light sabre to him. He likes all thecharacters and the parts they play, he likes Darth Vader, he likes Darth mal. There is not a day that goes by that he has not seen one of these movies. He goes around saying things like, "use the force", and "concentrate on the moment", and "a jedi's power flows from the force". (Of course the best is when he took his light sabre, came up to me and in his best 2 year old darth vader imitation - complete with hand over mouth and breathing noises - and says "your powers are weak, old man", just like Darth Vader says to old Obi Wan)
Gabriel's daddy does reiki. Gabriel likes reiki, especially when he is not feeling well. He will sit in daddy's lap and take daddy's "hot hands" and place them on his head or tummy when he is not feeling well. Yesterday he fell in the sand box and scrapped his knee and a little drop of blood appeared. My wife went to comfort him and he says, "it's ok mommy, I use the force and proceeds to place his hands on his knee.
So, I should check the "Jedi" box for religion for him when our census comes around?
Take gentle care!
Have fun,
Subject: Re: Inner Child.
From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 06:06:07 -0700
Good Morning Gary, you wrote:
>Today's Ray: > > > One thing that we will Realize is that the Inner Child is not ego, but > rather > > that Divine Spark that was us BEFORE we were defiled by all the > > conditioning that we have been bombarded with since our birth. > >All too often, as an adult one pays no attention to one's Inner Child >One 'blossoms' into adulthood watered and fed with toxic conditioning.
And they call it mature. These days, the inner child is forgotten by 2 many people. Taken over by worry about needing to have 2 parents working, children being raised in day care, baby sitters, etc. The world gone mad with high prices for everything. We need to break the chain somehow. The hardest part of changing things is changing your own out look first. To me all these huge houses and rows of condos are all phallic symbols, an extension of the ego and totally unnecessary. A waste of land and a cancer spreading over the earth. We are toxic as the priorities are totally out of control. Big houses, more than one vehicle, five TV sets, 20 rooms, rooms full of fancy stuff, all gathering dust. Parents working 8 to 10 hours a day to give the kids everything they want, except what they need. Attention and love. The sense of discipline and freedom taken away by government, replaced by so called human rights. These days responsibility leans towards making money not teaching compassion, empathy, and love for your neighbors. We have learned to live in fear of what others may take away instead of what we give to humanity. There she goes again..
>May be beautiful on the outside, but rotten and decaying on the inside.
This is sometimes my thought when I look around me. Watch the news for a good example, watch beauty pageants, watch children walking to school. clones, each one of them wanting to be more beautiful than the other. Wearing the same clothes, no sense of individuality. No sense of self. Mom lives across from a junior high, I can sit and watch kids coming and going all day long. Some walk with assurance, some with heads down watching the ground, some slouching. The transition school from elementary to junior high. In Sept there are groups of kids out doors playing around and by June they have forgotten how to play, traded by a false sense of maturity. Probably teased out of it by others making fun of them acting like children. In Sept there are pony tails and no makeup, by June there are tight jeans and plenty of eye shadow. In Sept there are groups of mixed sexes playing around the field, and by June they separate. There are groups of boys hanging around the fence smoking a little pot at lunch time. No longer the carefree children that entered the school in Sept. In todays world there are more teens with new fancy cars in high school then there is on car lots. Parents substituting love for stuff as they need to continue working to pay for it. Not realizing the circle of despair they have gotten themselves into.The list of toys grow in people yards and houses, and so does the worry. Stuff means more than the inner child that smiles and giggles at rainbows and chasing shadows.
>"Organically grown" ~ to borrow a modern idiom, the WHOLE (Holistic) is >beauty in the purest form. One only has to look at the "wild" flowers, >or those that have been grown nurtured with TLC.
Wild flowers....my favorite of all. One has to enjoy them where they grow. There is more beauty in wildflowers than in most sculptured tended garden there is. We prune, we place, we weed, we seek perfection from plants just as we seek perfection from people. All in the name of love. Love IS. Why do we control our garden in the same way we control people. We place rocks and shrubs in the fallacy of perfection when a field of wild flowers has a natural beauty in disarray. In a field of wild flowers each one is unique. Being supported by other flowers and types of grass that grow around it and protect it from the wind. In a planned garden we pull out the weak and the so called ugly plants.
We are a toxic race. We live and die in the name of greed, desire, wants and needs, and wonder why we have lost our inner child. The child that runs and plays in puddles, a child that sees shapes in the clouds, the child whose rock collection consists of any that they find. The child that collects bugs as a grand prize. The child who loves to play with the gift wrap rather than the toy inside. The child who thinks dandelions are the most beautiful flower in the world. The child who laughs and screams with delight at the waves that lap their feet. The child who accidently wades to far in the water and gets their shoes wet and smiles at you yelling oh oh or oops.....
I introduced Lexi, my 15 month old grand baby, to mud pies the other day. After tasting it, she decided it was more fun to play. By the time her Mom came home, her clothes were covered in it as well as her hair, face and hands. She also discovered that ants weren't food. I think I enjoy being with my grandchildren as they bring out my inner child, I can remember the things I enjoyed and let them experience the same joys. When I baby sit there is no TV except for quiet time. We make bread together, eat the dough, bake cakes and make bright purple icing. Reanna says " Gramma, you are a good cooker"
And she rattles enough for this morning. Gary its all your fault......can't blame Ray this morning........but then again, wasn't it ray that you got you going in the first place?
Subject: Re: Got it :-))) !!
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 02:40:11 +0200
Dear Yogajyiotii :-))
I received Affirmations of Light 3 days ago, now - but due to family matters didn't make time sooner to say Thank You. Apologies to you my friend, it arrived so fast and survived the trip in miraculous good shape too ! It's lovely food for thought indeed. I am ever so glad I bought it. I am very pleased with the autograph, makes it like a friend sent it that way - Thank You so much. Kindest regards, Wombat:) XXX A belief is a belief is a belief, by any other name is still a belief :-)
Subject: Re: Got it :-))) !!
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 04:48:47 GMT
Greetings Wombat, you wrote: ->I received Affirmations of Light 3 days ago, now - but due to family matters ->didn't make time sooner to say Thank You. Apologies to you my friend, it ->arrived so fast and survived the trip in miraculous good shape too ! ->It's lovely food for thought indeed. I am ever so glad I bought it. ->I am very pleased with the autograph, makes it like a friend sent it that ->way - Thank You so much.
I will forward your kind regards on Dear Friend {8-> Hopefully, perhaps when you get a chance to read some of it you could offer discussion on the material ?
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