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Subject: Human Nature ?

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 15:35:53 GMT

Greetings Community,

The term "human nature" seems to be tossed around as loosely as "love", meaning everything from our attributes to our shortcomings. The so called "human nature" is a misnomer, for conflict is not a human's nature. That is, this so called "human nature" is not the Evolved/Involved human True Nature which is Awareness/Compassion/Empathy/Understanding. There can be no conflict IN/AS Awareness/Compassion/Empathy/Understanding, so this so called "human nature" is little more than a conditioned programmed modus operandi. The term "human nature" is used as a rationalization or justification of our conditioned state of conflict and war and greed and selfishness and lust for power and self-gratification. So it would seem that by letting go of this conditioned programmed "human nature" we can then BE our True Nature of Awareness/Compassion/Empathy/Understanding. That is most obvious in those who have let go of that so called "human nature" and BE the True Nature they ARE.

The conflict and violence we must confront and actually embrace is the conditioned programmed state that controls and manipulates our thinking and behavior so we can BE the True Nature of Awareness/Compassion/Empathy/Understanding/Peace/Nonviolence we Truly ARE.

Any comments ?

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 12:07:30 EDT

In a message dated 5/13/01 8:41:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ejLight@Light-Mission.org writes:

<< The conflict and violence we must confront and actually embrace is the conditioned programmed state that controls and manipulates our thinking and behavior so we can BE the True Nature of Awareness/Compassion/Empathy/Understanding/Peace/Nonviolence we Truly ARE. Any comments ? >>

Are you saying that we can't BE our true nature of Compassion (et all) until we are faced with a violent or 'conflict' situation in our lives? I agree with that if you are saying that. One doesn't know what 'light' us until we see the 'dark' so to speak.

Renee

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 10:16:17 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)

"We are Spirit having a human experience" ~ and in that context, "human nature" is part of that experience. Yet, as Spirit, one does have that Inner Knowledge to realize the difference once having had the experience .

The problem lies in that the one who is going through the human experience, soon discovers that it can be advantages, and by tossing the phrase about ~ "It is only human nature to . . ." one thinks to justify their wont behavior for self serving purposes. Therefore they ' close their eyes ' to this!

Spirit on the other hand, is Awakened to this not so subtle difference and having donned the mantle of "human nature" for the experience, realize the heaviness of wearing it, and discards the mantle. The work of discarding is however very difficult and consuming of one's energy and time as the mantle is very heavy and cumbersome. Easier to put on than it is to take off, especially since there is plenty of help from those already wearing it but no wanting to take it off.

Something like that . . . :)

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 16:57:10 GMT

Greetings Renee, you wrote: ->Are you saying that we can't BE our true nature of Compassion (et all) until ->we are faced with a violent or 'conflict' situation in our lives? I agree ->with that if you are saying that. One doesn't know what 'light' us until we ->see the 'dark' so to speak.

*Deep Bow* This is True. But what was spoken of was taking it a step deeper and confronting the Cause of the "violent or 'conflict' situation in our lives", which is our conditionings. Most would like to *think* that the "violent or 'conflict' situation in our lives" is our so called "human nature", yet this is not so because our True Nature (True human Nature) is not of violence and conflict. This so called "human nature" is our conditioned programmed nature, and by confronting that we confront the very Cause of our Suffering and thereby confront our Suffering. For you see, IF "violent or 'conflict' situation in our lives" was our nature then all we would have to do is *deal with it* as we have since time immemerable and would not have to *face it*. We do not like the Suffering but we refuse to confront the Cause of that Suffering. Mostly because we *think* it is just "human nature", a catch term so we will not have to confront the Cause of such a catch term.

"What if you Slept, and what if in your Sleep you Dreamed, and what if in your Dream you glimpsed Reality and there you Realized a strange and beautiful Truth, and what if when you awoke you Realized that you had not been Dreaming ? What then ?" -- Yogajyotii

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 14:56:29 EDT

In a message dated 5/13/01 10:02:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ejLight@Light-Mission.org writes:

<< For you see, IF "violent or 'conflict' situation in our lives" was our nature then all we would have to do is *deal with it* as we have since time immemerable and would not have to *face it*. We do not like the Suffering but we refuse to confront the Cause of that Suffering. Mostly because we *think* it is just "human nature", a catch term so we will not have to confront the Cause of such a catch term. >>

So is the 'cause' of that suffering.... this deluded idea that conflict IS our true nature...sorta like the 'boys will be boys' attitude? Trying to translate into my language here (LOL)..sorry. And our TRUE human nature that was originally meant to BE is the divine seated into the flesh...BEing 'Love in Action' form on the material plane (compassion, kindness, etc) ?

I have this saying that I say when people do the "oh quit being so sensitive" to my clients, my family, my friends or to ME "Who made up that statement? I think the Insensitive are the ones that are always telling the sensitive to 'get over it' " know what I mean? The sensitive-aware people are the ones who are trying to teach us in some small way our TRUE human nature....one of empathy and compassion and one of humility (I am my brother's keeper)...IMHO

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 19:26:15 GMT

Greetings Renee, you wrote: ->So is the 'cause' of that suffering.... this deluded idea that conflict IS ->our true nature...sorta like the 'boys will be boys' attitude?

*Deep Bow*

-> And our TRUE human nature that ->was originally meant to BE is the divine seated into the flesh...BEing 'Love ->in Action' form on the material plane (compassion, kindness, etc) ?

True, except the "divine seated into". That makes the form separate from what you are calling the Divine, whereas the form is formless. Formless in that it IS what you call the Divine manifest. So our True Nature IS what you call the Divine and we ARE our True Nature. Only in the Sleeping mode are we separate from what we ARE, always looking for it somewhere other than where it IS. And not "originally meant to BE" but rather WAS, which is what Christendom's Bible refers to as our "Fall from Grace" (making the One Two). There was a time when we were our True Nature, or what you call the Divine. I would rather *BEing Love* and whatever actions will also BE Love, rather than "BEing 'Love in Action'" for it connotes that there is one who can act and an action one can take (Duality). Whereas we ARE what we do, as we ARE what we think.

->I have this saying that I say when people do the "oh quit being so sensitive" ->to my clients, my family, my friends or to ME "Who made up that statement? I ->think the Insensitive are the ones that are always telling the sensitive to ->'get over it' " know what I mean? The sensitive-aware people are the ones ->who are trying to teach us in some small way our TRUE human nature....one of ->empathy and compassion and one of humility (I am my brother's keeper)...IMHO

*Deep Bow*

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 12:31:44 -0700

Good Day All, Happy Mom's day.

Human nature- the natural state of being human. Sounds ominous doesn't it?

It's been so quiet and I have a moment so was going to write and tell you all about my days as of late. Now I don't have to........they are just of the nature of being human.

changed my mind......lol

Life has been so busy lately that I haven't had two minutes to spare. Between painting for a living, well, almost a almost living, washing walls, helping Mom go through things for a garage sale, organizing sheds so I can use the bigger one for storage, moving my daughter and helping her get settled, baby sitting, and other such things, the day is gone. I find myself getting up at 4:30 am to get ten minutes for myself before the day begins.

Focus focus focus, pack wood carry water, helps me accomplish what needs to be done within this minute and the next ten. It's like if I don't focus on what I am doing, I am projecting into the next job or the next and anxiety grows within myself. I don't care for that anxious feeling so have to bounce back into the moment and enjoy what I am doing at that point in time. Not that there is a point in time, but so to speak.

The bro lasted a day maybe, after detox, to get wasted. According to "them" you don't hit full detox until after five days. That's when most deaths occur, the heebie geebies, creepy crawler things come out of your system. For the life of me I can't remember the word, total blank, you know pink elephants and all. And she laughs at a pregnancy brain and is not even pregnant. My duaghter just left, so it must have rubbed off on me. lol..

Anyway, so it is the same old same old.........

Thanks all, Talk later....maybe much ,ater, but later none the less... Love to all

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 16:43:06 EDT

In a message dated 5/13/01 12:33:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ejLight@Light-Mission.org writes:

<< True, except the "divine seated into". That makes the form separate from what you are calling the Divine, whereas the form is formless. Formless in that it IS what you call the Divine manifest. So our True Nature IS what you call the Divine and we ARE our True Nature. Only in the Sleeping mode are we separate from what we ARE, always looking for it somewhere other than where it IS. And not "originally meant to BE" but rather WAS, which is what Christendom's Bible refers to as our "Fall from Grace" (making the One Two). There was a time when we were our True Nature, or what you call the Divine. I would rather *BEing Love* and whatever actions will also BE Love, rather than "BEing 'Love in Action'" for it connotes that there is one who can act and an action one can take (Duality). Whereas we ARE what we do, as we ARE what we think. >>

This is sure hard for me:o) I'll tell ya where I'm at whether you're interested or not...LOL.

Once upon a time there was a child that was born and that child knew that We Are All One. That we ARE the One...the Divine IS *Us* without having to go into 'belief' mode (as that constitutes a separation)....it just IS. Until she ran into these *beings* who called themselves *humans* and knew what was *best* for her. That *best* was of course....violence and conflict. This blew her mind of course. Why shouldn't it? It was too bizarre for words. Eventually she concluded that these *beings* just didn't realize that they ARE her and she IS them if you know what I mean....and they must have been misguided in some sad way to NOT see that when you hurt another...you hurt yourself too.

She tried to explain this for about forty years but it just didn't make sense to those *beings* that were *human*. She's gotten to the point that it simply isn't worth it anymore...they ain't gonna get it. Plus the fact that these *humans* seem to be multiplying faster than the rate of enlightenment per capita <grin>. She then got to the point that we really are NOT all one because if we WERE all one....people would just KNOW so why don't they know? Her heart aches on a daily basis because she wishes that Aquarian spirit would BE there...in the NOW...that sense of love and brotherhood that seems so very real to her and so twisted and misunderstood and perverted in this seemingly *violent* world where people shout each other down, tromp on each other heartlessly and then run off to the next *conquest* whatever that is. The quest for the Divine...or the ultimate that seems to be the 'divine' to THEM (could be money, power, dominance...etc.)...has been so misunderstood.

So now she's trying to comprehend (yes that's dualistic so don't lecture me...hehe) that maybe it's not the klingons and the humans down here....that maybe there are TRUE Humans wherever they are (cause I've only ran into ONE in my entire life and I married him) and Sleeping Humans (which SEEMS to be the majority while the *minority* HIDES their true humanness so they can survive) and maybe we really are ONE but it sure can be depressing. Like does it really have to take billions of years to wake up what....One percent of the total human population at this point (if that?)?? Or what? If there's a choice...I don't want to come back. Allow me to tour the Milky Way before I have another brilliant idea like this...k? LOL

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:52:09 GMT

Greetings Renee, you wrote: ->Once upon a time.....

Thank you.

->So now she's trying to comprehend (yes that's dualistic so don't lecture ->me...hehe) that maybe it's not the klingons and the humans down here....that ->maybe there are TRUE Humans wherever they are (cause I've only ran into ONE ->in my entire life and I married him) and Sleeping Humans (which SEEMS to be ->the majority while the *minority* HIDES their true humanness so they can ->survive) and maybe we really are ONE but it sure can be depressing.

*Deep Bow* Precisely what we have, those Sleeping and those Awakening. More correctly, Re-Awakening for there was a time when we were not Sleeping.

-> Like ->does it really have to take billions of years to wake up what....One percent ->of the total human population at this point (if that?)??

Whatever it takes. Like governmental corruption, we cringe when we hear about it or see it but we have to simply put up with it because they are the ones controlling the police force and armed forces and other agencies that keep them in control. We can just bite our lip, as it were. The Key is that we do not have to join in, and we can Help others not to join in. The fact is that we can BE who we ARE in the hopes that it will be a Pointer to others. Saving the one person we can Save (ourself), we have taken a giant step in Saving the World. The fact that the Awakening are few and the Sleeping are many has no bearing on Truth or Reality. Fact is, WE joined the rate race because WE placed value on the seeming rewards of joining the rate race, so WE have to disavow our membership. We still have to participate to survive, and we would want to so that we can Help others. But we must BE the True Nature we ARE in this participation. There is no one to blame for our conditionings, but WE are to blame if we do nothing about them.

->Or what? If there's a choice...I don't want to come back. Allow me to tour ->the Milky Way before I have another brilliant idea like this...k? LOL

Sorry, no choices. Not even the choice to Wake-Up, it is totally out of our control. Some have the Eyes to See and some do not. Most just need it Pointed out that they should take the blindfold off so they can See for they already have the Eyes. Yet most are too bullheaded to Listen, though they do have the Ears. But we are no less the fool when we do not Point this out or Tell them so.

So all that is offered from here is to Observe the conditionings that Veil our Waking-Up to the True Nature of Awareness/Compassion/Empathy/Peace/Selflessness that we ARE and BE that True Nature so we can end the senseless war and conflict and strife and crime and corruption and greed and selfishness we have been conditioned to hold so dear. We do not like the Suffering but we refuse to confront and let go of the Causes of that Suffering. It is not generally Understood that the further into Kali Yuga we go the harder it will be to Wake-Up. And there is no real reason to put off until tomorrow what we should be doing right NOW.

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:09:14 EDT

wow...

That whole thing made sense. Thanks. I have to ponder this further but you helped a lot...{{{{{EJ}}}}}<<hugs

Funny but my partner said a similar thing while I was pondering out loud "we are just here as examples of Waking Peace...not as examples of Violent Behavior...therefore we don't perpetuate the accepted status quo. Sometimes just be being who you are...you say a thousand words in your silence...and make a greater stand than those who would kill, hurt and destroy."

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 22:35:22 GMT

Greetings Renee, you wrote: ->Funny but my partner said a similar thing while I was pondering out loud "we ->are just here as examples of Waking Peace...not as examples of Violent ->Behavior...therefore we don't perpetuate the accepted status quo. Sometimes ->just be being who you are...you say a thousand words in your silence...and ->make a greater stand than those who would kill, hurt and destroy."

*Deep Bow* What if they gave a war and no one came ?

~ Pointer Of Our Fate ~

They grow up just like us so to be our double

Though not quite the same the same trouble,

Though only connected as maker and made

The likeness does burn out away they fade.

Just take a good Look at what you've done

How many True battles have you really won,

So See your Reflection in the Mirror of Truth

Though you can not adjust the gone by youth.

Correct be Sleeping has been since Awake

Neither was first nor neither can we forsake,

For they arose as one you see so not apart

Where they Truly separate is in the Heart.

We are not to be Seen yet we must so See

That the realm of appearance can never BE,

Awakening is the very Totality of Resolution

As in it's Realization Unfolds our Dissolution.

There is Darkness over the deep as in Desire

As Ignorance prevails that lights Death's Fire,

This the realm of Form and all it's Foolishness

Thought common sense yet destructiveness.

We must so Slay the very Slayer of the Real

Which is conditioned notions that do so Steal,

So it is all Desire and Ignorance must surely die

As we let go of permanence and all that is a lie.

Transcending this and that we cut the Chain

So as to embrace Form's oblivion in the main,

IN/AS the Stillness there is naught but a Life

Where time has ended there is no more Strife.

So ask not and thou shall surely never receive

For it is our Ignorance that we so much believe,

That must give way to see Pointers of our Fate

Before indeed in conditioned folly it is too Late.

2001 - Yogajyotii

Subject: Re: Human Nature ?

From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:44:08 EDT

In a message dated 5/13/01 3:40:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ejLight@Light-Mission.org writes:

<< *Deep Bow* What if they gave a war and no one came ? >>

Wouldn't that be COOL? We could all be sitting there on the sidelines having a big picnic and when *they* come by we could say "JUST SAY NO" HEE HEE

Subject: Hello Ray

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 05:32:27 -0700

We are not here in this incarnation to deal with conditioned thinking. That is something that we have to overcome before we can work on what we are here to deal with.

Another thing to worry about..sigh...Just kiddin'. Worry is one of those conditionings that we have to over come to experience the moment of what is. We can experience worry and yet if we allow it, it can take over our lives. Worrying doesn't pay bills, worrying doesn't fix things, all it does is remove what joy we can experience within any moment. We just do what must be done as it must be done. This brought me to a ramble about my youngest brother Don. He is a sweetheart and not because he is anything but himself. If we look at him through conditioned thinking he appears lazy,self centered and uncaring about things. Yet, he is far from that. He is a big lovable teddy bear who loves life just as it is. He has no belief systems, he doesn't gossip nor share things told in confidence, he will lend a hand anytime when he is ready. to him there is no rush. The job will get done when he is ready to do it. He doesn't hang on to what doesn't bring him joy. Not saying he can't display anger, but it is gone as quickly as it appears. He has no intent to hurt anyone or anything and allows others to do what they do without judgement. He does attach though, to people, to animals and nature. When these die, he feels the loss from his life, but it never stops him from loving, attaching and the joy that comes in the next moment. He is becoming aware, through observation of the other brother, on how words and deeds can affect another later in life. He practises this more and more on his own children. He becomes more aware of their reactions and responses to his own. I laugh because he is far from being aware of how aware he really is. Others get so mad at him because he doesn't live up to their expectations of what he should be, and it just rolls off him like water because he doesn't care what they think. One can't grow up without conditioning in some degree living with conditioned parents. He has always rebelled against it. No one can tell him what to do or what to believe. He dances to the beat of his own drummer. There is 14 years between our births and yet there is something we share that goes beyond ages.

You can not stop thinking. You have a brain and you have a mind, and thinking is what that combination does. It is that you have to learn to control the thinking.

Dam. I think and ramble about my thoughts. Now I have to control them....Hm, not so easy. If it wasn't for my thoughts, I would have nothing to ramble about. Come to think about it, that could be a blessing for those on this list.... :)

That is, when you want the mind to be Silent without thoughts it will be Silent. But when you need to think as to the response to the given Moment, you can call forward the thoughts. It is about you controlling your thoughts instead of them controlling you.

Right, a good response is not wanting to go there. Not in avoidance of a matter, as we will need to face our own demons before we can release them, but as in not allowing the demons to control our moment.

Perhaps the stumbling block to BEing that Vital Information is that you have not yet actually let go of the conditioned notions necessary to Walk the Walk.

We are doing our best to BEING the moment.

No one Saves us but ourself, no one can and no one may, others can Point to the Path, but we ourself must Walk the Way. Your Savior is not *out there*.

Now you tell me..... HA...daily reminders do help the process.

What is there to be afraid of ?

Only fear itself....I fear heights and can't seem to break that thought or release the fear of high places, no, not of high places, just the edge of high places. No, not the place. I fear falling over the edge, and yet it isn't death from a fall I fear, it's a fear of landing..... I can't stand near an edge without the feeling of being drawn over that edge. I can't look down without something to hang on too. I have no idea where that fear came from. Could it be a block?

You are projecting into the future (which is not Real yet).

True......

That is, you are arraigning your Suffering of the Moment to come..... while Suffering in the Present because of memories of the Past (which are also not Real).

Is this not like my fear? A memory not remembered and dealt with?

Upon letting go of enough conditioned notions that Veil your Awakening, you WILL Remember.

More work...... ha !

Blessings to all for being here...

Subject: Empty ?

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 05:17:38 GMT

Greetings Community,

You must Empty your conditioned notions fully. We must BE an Empty Vessel in order that we may BE full. Which brings to mind an Ancient Story:

A king is getting old.... He has three sons, and all are intelligent. They are triplets, born together, so there is no question of who is the eldest; otherwise, there would have been no problem, the eldest son would have been the successor. The problem was, who out of the three is going to be the successor? They are all of the same age. In horse riding they are all of equal efficiency; in archery they are equally great. In every field it is impossible to decide who is the best of the three.

He asked his master, an old wise man living in the forest: "I am getting old, and somebody has to succeed me and take care of the kingdom. And I am in great difficulty: can you give me some idea how to choose the right person?" And the wise man gave him some advice.

The king came back, and he gave an equal amount of money to all three sons and told them -- because they all had their own palaces -- that, "With this money, you have to manage to fill your palaces completely. And after seven days I will come to see: whoever succeeds in filling the house totally, better than the other two, is going to succeed me as the king of the kingdom."

They were puzzled, because the money was not that great. They thought of many things, but the palaces were big -- how to fill them completely?

The first prince went to the municipal corporation and asked, "From today, all the trucks that throw the garbage of the town outside the city should throw it into my palace -- because with that money only this much is possible, to fill the palace completely."

He filled the palace completely. The whole neighborhood was angry; even the traffic on the road stopped -- because it was stinking. But they could not do anything -- he was the prince, and it was a question of a certain test. The king himself has asked.

The second prince was very much worried... asked many people. But they said, "With such a small amount of money it is very difficult. What your brother has done... he has filled the house; you can do something similar. Just purchase cheap grass, fill the house." He purchased cheapest quality of grass, which even animals were not ready to eat, but still the house was not full; it was only half full.

They were both worried about what the third brother was doing, because he looked absolutely unconcerned. Six days had passed and he had not done anything. And the seventh day came, and by the evening, as the sun set the king came with the wise old man.

It was impossible to come close to the first son's house. The king said, "This idiot, he has really filled the house -- but with garbage! It is disgusting, I am feeling sick."

But the old man said, "You had asked... and we have to go and see. Just have a little patience. You need not stay long; just have a look to see whether he has filled the house or not."

They saw it.

They went to the second son's house.... It was not better, but it was not worse either. It was rotten grass, but the house was half full.

The king was very much disappointed -- so much so that he thought that it would be better not to go to house of the third prince. Because these idiots... what they have done is not worth seeing.

But the wise man said, "You have to go, because the decision has to be taken."

They went to the house of the third young man. They entered the house, and they were puzzled -- because it was absolutely empty. He had even removed the furniture, the paintings, the statues, other things of the house... everything was removed. The house was utterly empty.

They asked the son, "What have you done?"

He said to the father, "You just see, it is full."

He looked around. He said, "It is absolutely empty, you are befooling us."

The wise old man said, "Don't be angry with him; it is full, but it is full with something that you are not acquainted with. What he has done is that he has just purchased candles and put the candles all over the house -- it is full of light."

And the boy returned most of the money. He said, "This was too much. I could have filled the house in many other dimensions also. I could have brought music into the house, which has no weight. I could have brought incense into the house -- the fragrance has no weight, and it would fill the house. But I thought that would be doing too much. This is enough -- and why waste your money? You take your money back; a small part of your money was enough."

The king understood and made him his successor.

Subject: Yotti Yotti

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 06:25:23 -0700

Consciousness, as it is understood throughout our life, from a social or even a psychological perspective, is simply the mental ability of being alive.

Yes, the I think, therefore I am.

Terminology can be a major stumbling block to anyone Truly Understanding these terms.

I don't get this. Is this meant that those who know, can not describe?

So as you study, may I offer that you not get bogged down with the words but rather understanding what the words Point to.

Again don't get hung up on the finger....but observe where the finger points...... (hm, never mind hand jesters)lol

The point is that Truth is nondualistic and therefore the energy of Truth is nondualistic -- or, I ask, do you think that this non-dual energy of Truth is just some mere concept ?

No, not a concept. Duality within ourselves is sometimes hard to recognize as it can be subtle. It is easy to recognize and be aware of the large ominous duality that stares us in the face, but the subtle energy is harder to detect.

A dualist will *think* that the rain and earth and sun and tree are four different things, yet the non-dualist will *know* that the tree is the rain and earth and sun for there would be no tree without them.

As with people, same but different. Each may walk a different path, and yet the paths merge as one. Relating and accepting others on the level of one is non duality. Seeing a difference is duality. I love you but.....

If we judge that it is good and useful via our conditioned thinking and behavior, we rave it and acclaim it's worthiness. If we judge that it is bad and useless via our conditioned thinking and behavior, we *react* to it or delete it.

Like chocolate?

You may ask, what is "What-IS" ?

No, what is just IS..It can not be anything else.....

It has been said that to be intelligent we must learn something new each day, yet to be Wise we must let go of something we have learned each day.

Oh no! I think I've over done that part.

My saga continues....... Yesterday Brother Darrell spoke and wishes to depart from this existence. He hasn't got the will or the energy to fight his dis-ease or Dad. Still, all I can do is watch. Dad figures we can save him with words of love and support. I say not. Mother is angry at the world because there is no where to turn for outside help. Still, the message is the same, they were told years ago what to do and choose not to listen, now when things can't get much worse, they are angry with everyone else because they won't help. They are deaf to the fact they have supported this dis-ease all these years by allowing him to remain there and doing everything for him. They just can't look at their part in the drama of his life. It's always someone else's fault. If he kills himself through suicide or alcohcide, I wouldn't want to be standing where they are standing, in the pits of guilt,blame and anger. Dad says that no one loves Darrell because no one helps him. I must confess to anger of my own over that statement. I told him that words like that are not the truth. And the truth is, there is nothing anyone can do to help him until he chooses to ask for help. I am thinking there is a great lesson to be learned by everyone and not sure what my part in this whole mess really is.

Anyway, time to go painting, hung a tarp to dry the wood for the deck. I am beginning to think I am going to build an ark.

Happy days to one and all,

Subject: Re: Yotti Yotti

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:07:38 GMT

Greeting Sharlene, you wrote: ->Y: Terminology can be a major stumbling block to anyone Truly ->Understanding these terms. -> ->I don't get this. Is this meant that those who know, can not describe?

It is True that Truth can not be contained in words, so the best we can do is Point. In such Pointing we may use such terms as What-IS and What-ISNOT and Realization and Duality and NonDuality and Direct Experience and BEing and anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment and a myriad of others that if unfamiliar with such terms can cause one to *stop and think* about the terms. Such terms are just Pointers, so we have to look beyond/behind/between the terms to See what is Pointed to rather than just trying to figure out the terms. Though figuring out the terms is also important, we must Understand that the terms are but Pointers and not that which is Pointed to. The Awakening that can be named is not Awakening but rather a Pointer to where one can BE Awakening.

Subject: Re: Yotti Yotti

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:29:06 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)

->I don't get this. Is this meant that those who know, can not describe?

Hi Sharlene! In my own experience, I found that it is well nigh impossible. However, deep within the Truth of who I AM, I know, I remember. This knowledge however has been slowly forgotten in (human) time by the myriad of conditioning as I (humanly) developed from the infant stage to the adult stage. Fortunately for me, there was a slight crack where the light shone and I did all I could in my growing years to not let it be covered up completely . . . and I paid dearly for that. I still carry the physical as well as the emotional scars to remind me. The upside is that I was eventually able to widen the crack and let in more Light by chipping away at the conditioning. I did this by removing myself from the people (family and the Church in my case) who were doing everything possible to keep me in the dark (so to speak), so they could retain their control over me. These same people did not understand or were afraid of Love, and when they saw "IT" in me, they tried everything possible to kill it. This is not something I am speculating about, but has come to Light within the last few years in honest and open conversations. I am not for a moment suggesting that you do the same, for we all have to find our own track to the bigger path. This is what I had to do! You have a great example in your younger brother, of whom you have written about. Like him and like me, walk to the beat of your own drums. You will be out of step with the rest of the parade, but soon (as you are now) you will merge in with another parade that you will be in sync. This is the parade of joy, happiness and peace; unlike the one you will leave behind that are wont to drag their feet thinking they're doing such a marvelous job of keeping time with the True Beat.

Subject: Tyme For Rhyme

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 03:52:25 GMT

Greetings Poets and Others,

~ Eternal Mindful Perfection ~

You must know it well and you can not do without it

For Karmic Cause and Effect can be your only limit,

So Discern it well With a Silent Still Meditative mind

Which must be without conditioned notions refined.

Nurture your Awakening True Nature it's so Sublime

As it's the only state of BEing that's True all the time,

You must BE that Truth always and never distracted

Truth simply IS conditioned notions must be retracted.

You're IN the world but you can not be OF the world

Clinging not thereof so Awakening can be Unfurled,

Most repulsive is the vile creature world has become

Let those defilements go they're not Awakening's sum.

Restrain yourself it is an arduous Painful undertaking

BE Open and Honest with yourself so can't be faking,

Just Meditate simply BE focus IN/AS Present Moment

For Awakening just happens therefore can't be meant.

You must forget what you know in self Remembering

So change Desire to the Passion of your Awakening,

This restricts your very company to only those Awake

For all other seeming Masters you will surely forsake.

You surely must let go of not only conditioned notions

Also the organizations that lead you as false motions,

Awakening is your practice all else is mere dereliction

This is your single pointed Eternal Mindful Perfection.

If you never reach that distant Star at least you tried

For on this Path effort never goes to waste or is tied,

Yet if in a persistent persevering you reach that Star

You will BE the very Journey of BEing who you ARE.

It is after all the Talk is done and the studies so Clear

That you Dwell IN/AS the ever anew Moment Here,

Which is our very True Nature IN/AS our very BEing

Emanating IN/AS every aspect of a Life and Seeing.

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 22:53:40 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)

Thank you E.J. ~ your poem brings back poignant memories, 'though fittingly in the remembering. This tells me that I am heading in the right direction on my path. Like you say - "pointers"; I need them every so often to not be pulled into the vortex of this world as it spins crazily (seemingly) more and more out of control.

Twelve days ago, in a town not too far from where I live, a little girl named Jessica Koopman was abducted. Today the parents are making preparations for her funeral, pending DNA confirmation. Also in the news, another local boy of 5 is missing, he is from one of the urban communities of this city. At least when I was growing up, I could play freely outside (when permitted) without the fear that today's children (and parents)must endure. The sad part is that when all the media hype blows over, most folks will get comfortable once again and slide back to old habits of expedient forgetfulness . . . thus the merry-go-around continues, spinning faster and faster unattended.

Has human kind learned anything in the past centuries of wars, killing and maiming? It seems not!

(((Love))) Gary . . . with a sad and heavy heart.

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 05:15:23 GMT

Greetings gary, you wrote: -> . . . with a sad and heavy heart.

Yes, the state of Sleeping humanity is most saddening.

->poem brings back poignant memories, 'though fittingly in the remembering. This tells me that I am heading in the right direction on my path. Like you say - "pointers"; I need them every so often to not be pulled into the vortex of this world as it spins crazily (seemingly) more and more out of control.

It did seem to strike the very core of our Salvation, so I thought I would post it. Glad it *rang a bell* {8->

->Twelve days ago, in a town not too far from where I live, a little girl named Jessica Koopman was abducted. Today the parents are making preparations for her funeral, pending DNA confirmation. Also in the news, another local boy of 5 is missing, he is from one of the urban communities of this city. At least when I was growing up, I could play freely outside (when permitted) without the fear that today's children (and parents)must endure. The sad part is that when all the media hype blows over, most folks will get comfortable once again and slide back to old habits of expedient forgetfulness . . . thus the merry-go-around continues, spinning faster and faster unattended.

Indeed. And the so called *Light Workers* are convinced and try to convince us that humanity is going through a Transformation to Greater Spirituality. They must never go out of their dwelling or watch the news or read the newspaper. Or they are just blind and deaf. Whichever, their world is obviously within the confines of their cranium.

->Has human kind learned anything in the past centuries of wars, killing and maiming? It seems not!

Most agreed from here Dear Friend. Perhaps in the next Manvantara they will get it right {8-|

Subject: The Rhytm of Life

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:05:52 -0600

Mood swings are nothing more than the natural rhythm of life; the beat to which we march. As long as it swings within the acceptable boundaries (in a medical context)it ought to be embraced and addressed with the tender care in the moment of experienceing it. However, when it exceeds the boundaries acceptable in the medical findings of what is normal in one's physiological chemical balance, is when one needs to seek medical help. Unfortunately, it has been observed that many people not understanding this, react to another's mood swing even when it is within the acceptable (medical) boundaries. This is when friction is encountered and disharmony prevails Thank you for sharing of yourself Sharlene . . . with all that is happening in your life take a special care of yourSelf.

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 06:43:32 -0700

Good Morning everyone,

Not sure what's going to come out today as I am not in a very good mood.

I don't watch TV news or read the papers. One does not have to be involved with the media to know what goes on in the world that we call unpleasant, good or evil. Bad news travels fast, good news never makes it anywhere. It's not sensational enough. It's like they want to keep the people living in fear.

These types of things have always happened, it has been only in the last few years that we hear about it on a daily basis. Growing up in a remote Northern town of 500, no TV until I was 16, all we had was CBC radio. When we went to the big towns we were amazed at how far ahead they were compared to us.

We were aware of family abuses of all kinds, had bank robberies, and assults. Girls were raped and there was the occasional murder, car accidents,people drowned and people died in house fires. We were also aware of each baby born, who got a new car, etc. We danced the Maypole dance on the long weekend in May and that made the papers. We don't have to listen to the news or read the papers to know what happens in the world, we are the world.

What we have today is people calling them light workers, peddling another religion or belief system to others. Most add to the mind rather than teaching or pointing how to live in the moment. They are exploiting the fact that people know something is missing in their lives and they fill it with crystals, incense, rituals, books and a sense of belonging to a group,rather than pointing to their own within. People can follow a Guru for 20 years and still feel incomplete or empty, and all they have gained is an attachment to the Guru. And those who won't do anything without consulting a psychic are looking for someone else to tell them what to do instead of taking responsibility for self. In search for freedom, they find just another addiction.

We don't have to read the news paper to be informed of the so called evil things around us, we just have to be more aware of what is around us already. Just by being aware of ourselves, we can change the world, it may not be a big noticeable change that makes the paper, but it can produce change in those around us.

I am not sure there is evil anyway. I am not convinced that anyone is evil or bad. I know there are opposites, light and dark, but evil? I am not convinced that these things happen without purpose and yet totally unsure of the purpose. So I end up saying " Thats life" Where there is life, there is death. We can't fear death without fearing life...We can't experience life without experiencing death.

It is not for those who die we mourn, it is for those who are left behind. Those who experience loss.

I don't get angry at death, I feel a great compassion for the pain and fear they experience before death. That's the part that gets to me. It doesn't matter if it's a child or an adult, that fear and pain is the same..

Anyway, maybe one shouldn't write when in a bad mood.

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:55:24 GMT

Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->Anyway, maybe one shouldn't write when in a bad mood.

But... but... but... it did not sound like a "bad mood" here. Disgruntled with the state of affairs of greater humanity, as most are, but quite an Open Honest Sharing I would say. Most appreciated from here, for such Sharing is included in the Community's agenda of BEing a *Mission Of Light* is it not ?

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:34:21 -0500

Hi EJ and All:

"Time for Rhyme?" Im sorry I haven't been really following this thread, but it sounds interesting. E.J. - you have a lot of talent in "rhyming"

I'm waiting for a "love poem" :)

Sharnanda! How are you doing? Everything okay with you :) Love ya!

Love Pammy

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:27:33 -0700

>Hi Pam,

you wrote:

>"Time for Rhyme?" Im sorry I haven't been really following this thread, but >it sounds interesting. E.J. - you have a lot of talent in "rhyming"

He do, don't he?

>I'm waiting for a "love poem" :)

Ha ha, maybe he will write one.

>Sharnanda! How are you doing? Everything okay with you :) Love ya!

Thanks for asking, I am F.I.N.E. She says through clenched teeth. I'll be back to myself in a couple of days. I hope.

>Love >Pammy

And love to you ME

Subject: Re: The Rhytm of Life

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:31:52 -0700

Hi Gary, you wrote:

>Mood swings are nothing more than the natural rhythm of life; the beat >to which we march. As long as it swings within the acceptable boundaries >(in a medical context)it ought to be embraced and addressed with the >tender care in the moment of experienceing it.

My mood swings from frustration and not knowing how to release it these days. I don't feel like yelling at everyone as it does no good anyway.

>However, when it exceeds the boundaries acceptable in the medical >findings of what is normal in one's physiological chemical balance, is >when one needs to seek medical help.

Me? I need a dam good massage, that fixes everything with me every time.

>Unfortunately, it has been observed that many people not understanding >this, react to another's mood swing even when it is within the >acceptable (medical) boundaries. This is when friction is encountered >and disharmony prevails

I can second that.

>Thank you for sharing of yourself Sharlene . . . with all that is >happening in your life take a special care of yourSelf.

Forgot how......but try..

Love to you Gary, It must be time for another phone call soon don't cha think? I'll try and call

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:24:17 -0700

>HI ya EJ, >->Me:Anyway, maybe one shouldn't write when in a bad mood. > > You: But... but... but... it did not sound like a "bad mood" here. >Disgruntled with the state of affairs of greater humanity, as most are, but >quite an Open Honest Sharing I would say. Most appreciated from here, for >such Sharing is included in the Community's agenda of BEing a *Mission Of >Light* is it not ?

Yes, a tired disgruntled old woman these days. Tired of working all the time in the rain, wondering when the paint will dry so I can put another coat on. This job, the deck, is far from just painting, it is a puzzle of wood pieces that need to find their spot. It was taken apart and same wood used. But we got it figured out today. The guy who owns this place is strange. He bought stain for walls, not deck floors and says use it any way, even if it's wrong. He used to own the radio station and now owns MacDonalds in Terrace and Prince Rupert. That's how I got the job of painting both MacDonalds. Yet, his deck needs doing first..

Yesterday Darrell threaten suicide, today is begging someone to drive him Prince George again back to detox. Doctor tomorrow for him. I got more angry when Mom gave my mountain bike away yesterday, leaving me with the broken one that Darrell crashed and broke while drinking. So now I have no useable bike and I just got the other one last fall. She is so uptight so can't remember who belongs to who or what anymore. I know I shouldn't be attached to the bike, and yet, if I could afford to buy another one, I would. Life is crazy sometimes. It's hard enough living in these conditions and doing what I am doing, but to give away what is mine, just adds to the frustration. Sometimes I wonder what the hell I am doing or accomplishing right now.

Any psychics around???????

Talk later Love

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 06:17:40 GMT

Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->>I'm waiting for a "love poem" :) -> ->Ha ha, maybe he will write one.

>hop >hop >hop >hop >hop >hop >hop

WHAT ? ALL Poems from here are Celestial Love Poems to humanity !

< hop< hop< hop< hop< hop< hop< hop

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 05:23:32 -0700

>EJ wrote: > > WHAT ? ALL Poems from here are Celestial Love Poems to humanity ! > >< hop< hop< hop< hop< hop< hop< hop

There once was a Frog called EJLight, Whose love for humanity burned bright, With awareness as the Vision, And a mind with no division, Keeps all the tad poles in sight, The evidence is clear, For all who are near, As his croaking keeps them from sleeping at night.

Bad poetry, but that's what you get this morning.......

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 13:48:59 GMT

Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Life is crazy sometimes. It's hard enough living in ->these conditions and doing what I am doing, but to give away what is mine, ->just adds to the frustration. Sometimes I wonder what the hell I am doing ->or accomplishing right now.

Perhaps it is patience. Perhaps it is Realizing the Suffering and folly in clinging to anything in the impermanent phenomenal realm, which includes situations as much as things. Perhaps it is that the best Moment is the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. Perhaps it is that there is no better place than the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment where you ARE at any given ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. Perhaps it is to seriously Live Life, but do not take life seriously. Perhaps it is that cluttered thinking gets in the way of Clarity and Peace of mind. Perhaps it is that *you* do not do nor do *you* accomplish, but rather a BEing what is done and/or accomplished. Perhaps it is that there is nothing beyond or other than "right now" and all else IS "hell".

Subject: Hi Ray:

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 06:16:51 -0700

you wrote: Sansheng asked Xuefeng, "What does the golden-scaled fish that goes through the net eat?" Xuefeng said, "I will tell you after you have come out of the net."

Probably the same stuff he ate before he went through. There is no fireworks, no parade when you break free, all remains as it was,except you. With blinders off you have wider vision. Instead of looking straight ahead, one becomes aware of all that is around them.

From that point, start letting go of the ideas and images and meanings that attach you to the outer physical world of Illusion and control and manipulation.

I have no control of what goes on around me,nor would I want that responsibility. I can't control my own life, other than my responses or reactions. Like getting angry when Mom gave my bike away. I can get angry, but it doesn't change the fact the bike is gone. So one has to accept the physical loss.

Each Moment is anew, so we must let go of even the past Moment so as to fully embrace the anew present Moment.

So I get angry only when I think about it. The rest of the day is good. Another lesson in humility and detachment. Which only proves to myself that I still have an attachment to owning some stuff.

Not everyone who Walks the Walk Talks about it, however.

Then there is those who talk about the times they don't walk the talk. No denial here.

As a child we know everything, yet as we grow we realize that there are a couple of things we do not know, and with further growth we understand that there is a lot we do not know, so as we Wake-Up we Recognize that we know nothing.

I know nothing.I have no answers, only questions. If I had answers I would know what to do and when to do it. I just stumble along the path, hitting pot hole after pothole.

So we can only be Truthful in our thinking and behavior, for Truth can not be confined to the spoken word but rather be Realized by looking in the direction that the Pointers as words indicate.

Even if I found a road paved in gold, I couldn't take it. The nickle allergy would keep me away. And pure gold is to soft to walk on until one lightens the inner load.

Truth is Realized in the Aha beyond the words, the space between the words, and not the words themselves.

Ther is more truth in words unspoken than in the words themselves. Silence speaks loudly.

As Truth can not be possessed but rather be Realized. The truth we possess is our truth but it is not Truth, we are only conditioned to think so.

We can possess nothing. Nothing is ours. Anything we claim can be taken away in a flash. Try and give away the stuff that means the most to you. Not the stuff you don't want. We pride ourselves in getting rid of possessions we have packed around with us, but try and give away that which we cherish. And better yet, give it a stranger.

I am saving some books in the hopes that Light Mission Retreat becomes reality and they can find a home there. Yet I know in the meantime they are useless baggage sitting in the boxes.

Sigh, some days we drink champaign, some days we eat the cork......

Good day to all

Subject: The other Ray

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 06:49:04 -0700

I would say to anyone concerned that at some point in our Awakening we all go through the same stages, the same Ahas. And as this one line points out, at some point in our Awakening we all think that we are the most screwed up of them all.

You reading my mind again. That's me these days, totally a screwed up mess.

When we Recognize and accept that we are indeed conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons, and Realize that "come Hell or high water" we are going to do what must be done to change that, we are starting to Wake-Up.

Well, it seems like we work at it and end up feeling like we are back to square one. Which of course, ther is no other square to stand on or move to. It's amazing how much we do standing here, wherever we are. There is no point in running away from here, here is always were you are. All crap just follows you to the new place. Changing residence doesn't change the person or change the problem.

Due to this Waking-UP we look around and do not see others as disenchanted with their sorry state so we think perhaps their state is not as sorry as our's.

This is how I get to feeling. I ramble on about my woes, and it feels like I am the only screwed up one of the bunch. Where's my roses to smell, and my sunshine heart? Reality sucks. No, I am not in a bad mood today, just looking at what is, and some days what is stinks.

But it is not that they are in less Suffering, it is that they have not Recognized it. So they go along their merry way in the bliss of their Illusions, and we have to face the drudgery of lack of Illusions.

There is no illusion in my life. It is what it is right now. Maybe if I could an illusion I could be cheerful all the time. I need a massage.

Yes, at times we wonder "why did we have to slip up and start Waking-Up ?"

Ha ha, familiar question.

Things seemed easier when Sleeping, so we would like to go back to Sleep. Some times we even try to go back to Sleep.

I still have thoughts like that from time to time. Trying to find a best of two evils. My kids laugh at me saying that right now, moving back to Quesnel sounds easier. Yet we know that isn't true....

But alas, we can not get the Door to our Awakening shut quite all the way. Once we Open that Door, no matter how hard we try to close it back up, a little bit of the Light of Awakening will ever after Shine through and disturb our attempts to Sleep. So we trudge on.

It's along and lonely road some days. Still wishing for a massage.

Against the tide of a conditioned world. A long difficult battle with our conditioned notions, but we find that things do get easier as we go along.

The challenges change, the lessons repeat themselves as tests, I think. Or they are like koans, many answers for many readings, when the base fact of it all, is to what we do with focus instead of projecting or reflecting. Drink your coffee before it gets cold, or kicking over the bucket so all that remains is what is. What is may seem like the pits at times, and it could be so, learning how to handle it with grace is the problem.

THEN we Realize that actually we were not so bad off at all, that others are in worse shape than we ever were.

No, there is no one as screwed up as me. And I am sober and straight. I have no excuses for myself, nothing or anyone to blame but myself. I can't even lose sight of a peaceful future because I can't imagine my future. It will be a surprise or just more doing in the moment. Maybe perhaps the future will find me more peaceful.

THEN we cherish our Awakening and feel sorrow for them.

I can't cherish my awakening, I think I am farther from being awake than Dodd's has liver pills. I don't feel awake, I feel frustrated.

I would only add that the *reactions* that this generates, whether IN/AS the participants or IN/AS those just observing, is the very material for us to Self-Observe our conditioned programmed thinking and behavior so that we can "know thyself".

I don't know myself. If I did would I always be frustrated?

Did not these men say "be a Lamp unto thyself" ?

Sure they did, they just forgot to add that we have clean the globe around the light.

Did they not say "be as little children" for they are without the defilements of the world ?

I don't have time to worry. To busy. Frustration seems to be different than worry, then that again could be my illusion.

Such is the Way of Awakening. For no one Saves us but ourself, no one can and no one may, others can Point to the Path, but we ourself must Walk the Way.

Dam, I need to give myself a break. Carry myself for awhile. I'm tired. Frustration makes me tired. Isn't that a lesson in itself?

Enough of me and my woes. Sorry people, the need to vent these days is stronger than shutting up.

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:43:59 GMT

Greetings Ms Longfellow, you wrote: ->There once was a Frog called EJLight, ->Whose love for humanity burned bright, ->With awareness as the Vision, ->And a mind with no division, ->Keeps all the tad poles in sight, ->The evidence is clear, ->For all who are near, ->As his croaking keeps them from sleeping at night.

*Deep Bow*

->Bad poetry,

Au contraire, most Wonderful Poetry.

->but that's what you get this morning.......

And a most Gracious offering at that.

~ Guru Among You ~

Your Guru is among you but you did not Recognize

Your learnings and your practice is distorted by lies,

You do so misinterpret what you have been Taught

His Teachings are the same yet you think for naught.

In your conceptualizations you Talk very good Talk

But in your practice or lack thereof there's no Walk,

So you tell us what you know and that it's the Truth

You say you are God's messenger from your youth.

You cling to your lineage you come from a Wise line

Who's this at the end of your rope you think's so fine,

For you see it can't be the Truth or it couldn't be said

So your God and your message are a Sleeping Dead.

You can segregate yourself by the walls you so build

Yet your walls of protection are simply Darkness filled,

You create your world and your Gods as in your Image

Your life is no more than Dreams that Cause Damage.

That is why it is so said that the world is but an Illusion

For it is just a Dream though real in our Sleep Delusion,

It is all in your head and can not hold Real substance

Any Dream is as Real as the very Dreamer's utterance.

How did you get here by way of plane bus train or car

Or rather did you really ever leave from where you are,

No matter where you seemingly go you were not sent

Further than the anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment.

What you see is what you get in your Sleeping Dream

Awakening you know that not all is what it may seem,

Just Watch the Show it may very well give you a clue

As a very Wise Pointing to what we all must surely do.

From time immemerable been said over and over again

So why not See the Pointers instead of start over then,

It is not in your truth or in your way or conditioned Cup

Your Guru is closer than your Breath IF you Wake-Up.

2001 - Yogajyotii

Subject: This Is For Everyone Here:

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:29:32 -0500

Hi All :)

This is for you :)

I wrote this a very long time ago. I grew up in Military Life, and one of the places we were stationed was Guam for 2 years - God I hated that rock!

Anyway, this is about Guam - hope you like it !!

PORTRAIT OF GUAM

Guam is just a tropic isle Upon the ocean blue But if you'll put me on a plane I'll give it all to you.

Bug and lizards everywhere Invading house and home And frogs as big as horses Hopping on the lawn

Rainy season over here Is like the Flood of Noar With children surfing in the streets And water on the floor

Typhoons come with wind and rain To put us in a fright Which leaves us swabbing down the decks and itching for a fight.

Mom, I'm only joking It's really quite a place I'm just a wee big homesick To see your loving face.

P/S: We really did surf the streets after the rain storm and the frogs were HUGE! LOL

Subject: Re: Hi Ray:

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:46:27 GMT

Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->I am saving some books in the hopes that Light Mission Retreat becomes ->reality and they can find a home there. Yet I know in the meantime they are ->useless baggage sitting in the boxes.

Indeed the Retreat Center will need good reference materials. Most gracious of you. Is Dick and Jane the main characters ?

->Sigh, some days we drink champaign, some days we eat the cork......

Indeed, some days we feel like the Louisville slugger and other days we feel like the ball. Then, some days we feel like the windshield and some days we feel like the bug. We go to school all our life and mostly we just eat the pencils.

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:22:20 -0500

Hi Sharlene!

I, also have not been following the thread very much :). Are you really okay? I can offer a "shoulder" if you ever need one!

Subject: Re: The other Ray

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:46:36 GMT

Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Where's my roses to smell, and my sunshine heart?

Closer to you than your breath.

->Reality sucks. No, I am not in a bad mood today, just looking at what is, ->and some days what is stinks.

Could it be that perhaps the smeller needs adjusting ? What-IS simply IS AS it IS and has no characteristics of it's own, so any characteristics are our own projections.

->I don't know myself. If I did would I always be frustrated?

We are frustrated UNTIL we "know thyself". For once we "know thyself" we are obsessed with the Single Pointed Work of letting all the defilements go, as there is no time IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment to be frustrated.

->Dam, I need to give myself a break. Carry myself for awhile. I'm tired. ->Frustration makes me tired. ->Isn't that a lesson in itself?

Indeed it is. If you do not want to be tired, let go of the frustrations. For there are no frustrations or tiredness IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment.

Subject: Re: Emotional Blackmail

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:48:21 -0600

Dear Pam: Thank you for sharing your own experience of hell. I am happy that my posting did some good. This really is what sharing is all about . . . isn't it? You have a wonderful supporting son, a big hug for him. Sometimes when we go through our own ' hell' we feel all alone and cut off from everyone else and from the very world we live in. It's as if the bottom has fallen out and we're tumbling in this dark void with no end in sight. Remember however, that we're always provided with a parachute, all we need to do is pull the cord. The ' fall ' then slows down to a gentle glide and we land safely. Once on the ground we come to realize that there was nothing to fear but fear itself, and we think - "Gee, that wasn't that difficult after all!" We can then laugh at our own folly in allowing this to happen in the first place. Your son is absolutely correct, you have a whole new world to experience, once you pass through the threshold of the prison you/I have built. The angels are with you.

Subject: Re: Emotional Blackmail

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:10:18 -0500

Hi Gary:

Wow! I'm very proud of you by just reading how you handled this "emotional blackmail." Emotional Blackmail is on of the things that I've lived with for over 24 years with my husband. In all of our fights, he always said: I'll divorce your ass if you keep this up and don't do what I say."

"Divorce" was my worst fear, my worst enemy - and now it has finally come true. He served (suddenly) me with divorce papers. It's hard to believe, all those emotionally abused years - for nothing. All the physical and emotional problems that came with it - down the drain. All for naught!

Your email really helped me. Fighting your worst "nightmare" is not easy - in any given situation. One of (if not "the) worst crimes committed today is Emotional Blackmail. You cannot prove it in a court of law. All you have are your feelings, your distrust toward everyone, your nightmares, your panic/anxiety attacks, ete etc.

Since this happened, my son has been my "rock", and so has E.J. Getting through this is going to be so hard, but guess what??? Some thoughts never occurred to me.

My husband absolutely hates "my loves" such as my Angel Collection, my desk fountains, my books, etc etc. I remember a couple of years ago I bought an "in-house fountain" It was so beautiful. I spent all day fixing it up. It sat on the floor, and had an angel in the middle of it. I put beautiful rocks, and plants. Even "lighting". I paid $500 for this, and I loved it. That night when my husband came home, the first thing he did was break and crash it and placed it in the trash. I was heartbroken. But guess what???

Now, my son is telling me that when I buy my own place (out of the divorce settlement), I can have fountains all over the place - all my books, Angels, everything ! I don't have to be scared of that anymore, because when I move - it's mine to do as I like, and I'm going to fix my place up to be completely and totally metaphysical! I'm looking forward to that. I've forgotten about all of that. My mind has constantly been on "losing my husband, my life, all I've ever known - including the emotional blackmail, abuse, hurts, control, etc.

I have a very long road ahead of me, and when I'm alone, all I do is cry, but when my son comes over, and keeps "drumming in my head" of what I've got to look forward to, I can feel "excitement." Yes, that "excitement" only lasts for a little while, then reality sets in. But still, I felt that first "hint" of excitement; which I've never felt. And it's a good feeling.

Thank you for your wonderful email - God bless, Gary

Subject: Emotional Blackmail

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:32:54 -0600

Greetings all!

I learned about emotional blackmail from my (business') lawyer many years ago when I received a subpoena to appear in court for non-payment to a loan I had co-signed for a family member. At the time I was not aware that the debt had become delinquent, since the borrowers were living in a different city. There were many other incredulous and incriminating circumstances linked to this particular situation., i.e., Immigration, Social Welfare, besides the internal family squabbles. The long and short of it, was that I was going through hell working at meeting my own obligations and webbing my way through all this intrigue that was happening hundreds of miles away. At the time (I remember) thinking ~ ' This is what a fly feels like when snared into a spider's web.' Not until my lawyer said to me (in one of many meetings sifting through documented evidence) - "Gary you are being emotionally blackmailed." did the light go on and I saw the truth of his words. Until that moment, I was riddled with conditioned guilt to the point that I was under doctors' care for serious nervous breakdown that literally blinded me. I guess I did not want to see the truth of what was really happening, which was beyond my comprehension that such a thing was possible. Once I did though, it was a big load off my shoulder and with the help of my lawyer, I was able to deal with what needed to be dealt with in the moment. The point made here is that, conditioning guilt is very insidious, and if permitted to continue can be the ruin to one's life. The court verdict was in my favor, and upon receiving the written confirmation, I decided that it was time to break away, that 'enough is enough!' The business and house were sold and within a month I was ready to move West and as far away as possible to make a fresh start. Little did I know at the time that this was only the beginning of my 'work'. What went before was only the preparation (LOL). One takes one's problems with them. But, the geographical relocation did provide a more tranquil environment. Also the self imposed exile from the 'clan' permitted me to examine myself without the disturbance from all that was happening before. Retreat is not a sign of weakness, rather it is a time needed to reorganize priority to one's responsibility and accountability. Mankind is provided with the tools, however that does not automatically 'fix' whatever needs to be fixed. The tools may not be used at all, or used for other than what it was designed for.

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:26:53 -0500

Hi (again) Sharlene!

You asked if there were any "physics" around. Did you know that E.J. does astrology and is excellent in this area? Perhaps you can ask him for a "reading!" (Sorry E.J., I hope you don't mind!).

E.J. did one for me and it was awesome!

Sharlene - you are doing great! I am amazed at your energy! And yes - please write, not matter what kind of mood you are in! "Writing" helps to get it all out :).

I love your posts and look forward to them! Remember! I'm always here if you need me :)

Subject: Re: This Is For Everyone Here:

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:16:35 GMT

Greetings Pam, you wrote: ->This is for you :) -> ->Anyway, this is about Guam - hope you like it !!

Well..... more Poets come out of the woodwork, thank you for sharing this. Would you perhaps consider adding it to Light Mission's Poets' Corner page ?

Subject: Re: This Is For Everyone Here:

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:48:18 -0500

Hello E.J.

I haven't written poetry for a very long time; but I have approx 30. You are welcome to any of them. Most of my poetry is "spiritual" and some are comical - which I will be very happy to share with the group. Any that I share, you are welcome to!

Subject: Re: Emotional Blackmail

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:44:29 -0500

Hi Gary:

Thank you so very much for your uplifting email. I will truly save this and reflect back on this email. It really helps to have friends like you, Sharlene, E.J. and the rest of the wonderful members of this group!

My love to you, Gary!

Love and Light

Subject: Sharlene/Way of Transformation

From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 21:26:46 EDT

passing this on....

The Way of Transformation

The woman who, being really on the Way , falls upon hard times in the world will not, as a consequence, turn to a friend that offers her refuge and comfort and encourages the old self to survive. Rather, she will seek out someone who will faithfully and inexorably help her to risk herself, so that she may endure suffering and pass courageously through it, thus making of it a "raft that leads to the far shore." Only to the extent that a woman exposes herself over and over again to annihilation, can that which is indestructible arise within her. In this lies the dignity of daring. Thus, the aim of practice is not to develop an attitude which allows a woman to acquire a state of harmony and peace wherein nothing can ever trouble her. On the contrary, practice should teach her to let herself be assaulted, perturbed, moved, insulted, broken and battered -that is to say, it should enable her to dare to let go of her futile hankering after harmony, surcease from pain, and a comfortable life in order that she may discover, in doing battle with the forces that oppose her, that which awaits her beyond the world of opposites. The first necessity is that we have the courage to face life, and to encounter all that is perilous in the world. When this is possible, meditation itself becomes the means by which we accept and welcome the demons which arise from the unconscious --a process very different from the practice of concentration on some object as a protection against such forces. Only when we venture repeatedly through zones of annihilation can our contact with Divine Being, which is beyond annihilation, become firm and stable. The more a woman learns whole-heartedly to confront the world that threatens her with destruction and isolation, the more the depths of the Ground of Being is revealed, and possibilities of new life and Becoming opened.

by Karlfried Graf von Durckheim

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme ***TO GARY WITH A HEAVY HEART!***

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:59:56 -0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)

Thanks Pam ~ you are an Angel !

Subject: Re: The other Ray

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:25:50 -0700

> > > Closer to you than your breath.

Right....and there it is now.....Found it!

> Could it be that perhaps the smeller needs adjusting ? What-IS >simply IS AS it IS and has no characteristics of it's own, so any >characteristics are our own projections.

Had a bath, washed my hair, put on some Oscar and now feel better. Had some reflection time during my aloneness this day and it was what the Doc ordered. I get peopled to death and it stresses me out after awhile. I guess I am a dumping ground for others, and this list is my dumping ground..... I got this book, How to Dump without dumping on Others. Perhaps I should read it? Soon? lol

> We are frustrated UNTIL we "know thyself". For once we "know >thyself" we are obsessed with the Single Pointed Work of letting all the >defilements go, as there is no time IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite >Present Moment to be frustrated.

We know this, experienced it and yet, there are times I revert. That's why I need you guys to set me back on track. Each time I say, okay, this is the last time I am going to fall into those feelings of frustration, and guess what? I end up a liar yet again.

> Indeed it is. If you do not want to be tired, let go of the >frustrations. For there are no frustrations or tiredness IN/AS the ever >anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment.

My body is tired, still not over my illness quite yet and half the town is just getting it. Man what a powerful little bug. I have gained almost all my weight back now, trying for a few extra pounds. I think I over do it with all that I do and just need more physical rest. It's along weekend, yahoo.

The Liberals are in, in case you haven't heard. I didn't vote.........No one seemed to entice me to their side, and it's all bullshit anyway.

Subject: Re: Sharlene/Way of Transformation

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 06:28:55 -0700

Thanks for the poem, at first it sounded like one from Marge Piercy, which makes me laugh at her candor and bluntness. Check her out, you'd love her way of encouraging women to find their strength.

Thanks and love to you

Subject: Re: Tyme For Rhyme

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 06:26:11 -0700

>Hi Pam.

> Perhaps you can ask him for a >"reading!" (Sorry E.J., I hope you don't mind!). >E.J. did one for me and it was awesome!

I was just kidding when I asked for a psychic. I say that when I am to lazy to look within myself for the answers. Or when I am avoiding myself.

>Sharlene - you are doing great! I am amazed at your energy! And yes - >please write, not matter what kind of mood you are in! "Writing" helps to >get it all out :).

That's me, the babbler... I use the list as a journal quite often. As if no one has noticed : ) Thanks for the invite though, it's nice to know that some don't mind when I write my psycho babble.

>I love your posts and look forward to them! Remember! I'm always here if >you need me :)

And maybe we will now see more of you in your new found freedom and time for self discovery. We aren't alone in this experience and the support is awesome.

Talk again

Subject: Re: Emotional Blackmail

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 06:19:18 -0700

>Hi Gary: >And Pam, And all, you wrote:

> Emotional Blackmail is on of the things that I've lived with >for over 24 years with my husband. In all of our fights, he always said: >I'll divorce your ass if you keep this up and don't do what I say."

I too had lived with emotional blackmail within my marriage. It's a sneaky little devil that takes along time to recognize until we are told there is such a thing. It happens constantly and it happens to everyone at some point in time. It's a crazy maker and a guilt trip. A form of control by making another feel bad about what they are feeling. I witness this almost daily in this house. If you loved your Dad you would quit drinking. etc. We even do it to our kids when they were growing up. The worst are the empty threats. If you leave, I'll kill myself. I bought a book on emotional blackmail and never knew there were so many forms of it. So many subtle ways to blackmail and be blackmailed.

>"Divorce" was my worst fear, my worst enemy - and now it has finally come >true. He served (suddenly) me with divorce papers.

I don't understand why divorce was such a fear or your worst enemy? Fear itself was my worst enemy both times. Fear of making a mistake, fear of being alone,fear of ending up on the street a bag lady. Now here I am, no home, no stuff and yet not sorry I left. Not saying I didn't have many moments of wondering if it was the right thing, if I was giving up to soon, and yet it was ten years of hell. The alcoholic cycles, do we stay for the good times which are few,or do we leave because of the bad times which were many.

>It's hard to believe, >all those emotionally abused years - for nothing. All the physical and >emotional problems that came with it - down the drain. All for naught!

Never for naught Dear Pam. The biggest shock is the absence of the familiar. All of sudden things are different and it's hard to handle. The past life was made up of things we learned to cope with, we began to identify ourselves with the way we survived and allot of that denial and unworthiness. I got to the point when someone showed me compassion or empathy it would just upset me. I didn't know how to accept someone being really nice to me. I was afraid of my emotions, that if I let my guard down and allowed them to flow, they would never end. but they do, not quickly, but slowly with time we begin to heal. The biggest thing is a good support group, and lucky for me, I had one. The hardest thing was asking for help. That meant I was weak and since have learned that it takes more inner strength to ask for help then it does to suffer alone. Right from the birth of this list, it has played a great part in my healing. I have bared my soul to the members of this list and no longer feel I have anything to hide from them. It's not easy telling others our weaknesses and screw up's, and yet if we don't, we never experience the support and love that gets offered as their gift to us. When someone shares their life with others, and others respond with what they have experienced, we learn from it. We can draw on the energy that is given freely and without strings. Everyone here gives of themselves freely to another. We create our own family and support system.

> One of (if not "the) worst crimes committed today >is Emotional Blackmail. You cannot prove it in a court of law. All you >have are your feelings, your distrust toward everyone, your nightmares, your >panic/anxiety attacks, ete etc.

I can relate to these words and the emotion behind them. I have been divorced for 3 three years now, and the idea of working on another relationship other than the one with myself, takes too much effort. I am after an effortless relationship or I don't want one. LOL.....

>Since this happened, my son has been my "rock", and so has E.J. Getting >through this is going to be so hard, but guess what??? Some thoughts never >occurred to me.

A change or step into the void is never easy, until we do and look back at what we've done. Then we think and wonder why we took so long in attaining this freedom and aloneness for ourselves.

> My mind has constantly been on "losing my >husband, my life, all I've ever known - including the emotional blackmail, >abuse, hurts, control, etc.

Welcome to the void and the time for finding yourself. Sometimes you may find that what you wanted around you before, no longer matters. In self discovery, we discover these things mean very little. I tried to fill the void in my life by collecting things and found the void in life was not knowing anything about myself. I am still learning and still getting rid of things I had collected. Things become baggage as we clear the mind and soul. We find it is not a time to be able to have things we want, do the things we want, but to clear the things we thought we wanted. To lighten our load as we lighten our minds. Don't look forward to what you think you want, but at the possibly of who you can be..........

>I have a very long road ahead of me, and when I'm alone, all I do is cry,

This is a period of mourning, there has been a death and we need to work through it. Allow the tears and the emotions to flow. They are cleansing and purifying. Don't bother yourself with plans, just allow the time to do some healing. Plans will wait. The road ahead is not long when we live in the moment. Live for now, today and the future will take care of itself.

>" Yes, that "excitement" only >lasts for a little while, then reality sets in.

Allow reality to run it's course. Don't worry about what is possible, do what is possible today. Get a hair cut, go for a massage, do something that heals the soul, take care of yourself and everything will fall into place as it is suppose to.

> But still, I felt that >first "hint" of excitement; which I've never felt. And it's a good feeling.

Do something that makes you feel good today. walk barefoot in the park, allow the sun to warm your body, these are the things we have neglected to do for ourselves when our lives were filled with trying to make another happy. It's a hard lesson to learn to do something nice for ourselves....

Thinking of you, and sending love

Subject: Re: The other Ray

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:22:13 -0700

Hi Renee you wrote: >I LOVE your ramblings...they echo my own:o) Comments below...

Thanks for the reply, I only have a couple more minutes and it's off for more painting in the near rain or rain.

>EJ<< I would say to anyone concerned that at some point in our Awakening we > all go through the same stages, the same Ahas. > >you: >DO we? Hmmm....I dunno about that...

Shar: We do eventually all have the same aha's, why? Because there is no ones truth, only truth. We all experience it at one time or another along the path. We may be unique, but truth is universal.

>Shar: >And as this one line > points out, at some point in our Awakening we all think that we are the > most screwed up of them all. > >You: >Actually I do the "why IS it that I am 'seeing' this smack dab in my face and >NO ONE else IS? Why do I have to be the witness here? Why can't someone >ELSE be disgusted and upset or frustrated about this that I am seeing??" >Geez.

Shar: because it's your job? LOL, To be able to witness what is without judgement ends the disgust,upset or frustration. It becomes What is.......we can experience empathy and compassion, but disgust is no longer there. I experience frustration for myself because I am the only one that can change my life and sometimes miss something that is pointing the way.

>Shar > You reading my mind again. That's me these days, totally a screwed up mess. > >You: >Hardly!!!

Shar: Feels like it sometimes. Allowing frustration to take over. And yet if the sun shines through the rain, I am the first one to stand there and soak it in. Moments of bliss.

>EJ > When we Recognize and accept that we are > indeed conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automatons, and > Realize that "come Hell or high water" we are going to do what must be done > to change that, we are starting to Wake-Up.

Shar: True. Knowing that change is only possible within ourselves. Sometimes we want to be lazy and have others do the work......lol

>YOU: >Actually I do the 'I refuse to do the group mind mentality thing and shuffle >along in ze herd and head out to the pasture AGAIN merely because 'they' >ordered me to'...barf. >Then they severely chastise you for not going along with the 'status quo'. >Drives me nutts.

Shar: The backside of daring to be different. Alone but not lonely.

> >Shar: Well, it seems like we work at it and end up feeling like we are >back to > square one. Which of course, ther is no other square to stand on or move > to. It's amazing how much we do standing here, wherever we are. > There is no point in running away from here, here is always were you are. > All crap just follows you to the new place. Changing residence doesn't > change the person or change the problem. > >You: >I'm just starting to resign myself to "you gotta know when to hold up...know >when to fold up...know when to walk away and know when to RUN" <grin>

Yes that's a good one don't cha think?

>To >everything there is a season...there's a time to STAND and a time to LEAVE, a >time to KILL and a time to BIRTH...(sowwy...do I sound frustrated?).

No, just real.

> > EJ:Due to this Waking-UP we look > around and do not see others as disenchanted with their sorry state so we > think perhaps their state is not as sorry as our's.

Shar: yup.......We are an island unto ourselves.

>Shar > This is how I get to feeling. I ramble on about my woes, and it feels like > I am the only screwed up one of the bunch. > Where's my roses to smell, and my sunshine heart? > >[me] >Now THAT I can relate to because I am also an idealist. Why can't we all >just be happy with the flowers and the sunshine and be thankful for another >day to live? You are not the only 'screwed' up one of the bunch. No one is >screwed up here. We're just all 'us' with no good or bad...right or wrong >really DESPITE those that we see as 'sleeping' that we feel apart from. >We're not really 'apart' except in our perception of them. Yuck.

Shar: I am not an idealist, I have no idea what is right or wrong for anyone but myself. I am learning to say no and bow out of others experiences. One can only do so much and right now my hands are full.

>Shar > Reality sucks. No, I am not in a bad mood today, just looking at what is, > and some days what is stinks. > >You: >Yes today stunk. Totally. I agree.

Shar: Momma said there would be days like this........and the song goes on.

> EJ: > But it is not that > they are in less Suffering, it is that they have not Recognized it. So > they go along their merry way in the bliss of their Illusions, and we have > to face the drudgery of lack of Illusions. > >[me] >UH HUH...and again it drives me CRAZY. You want to shake them and say "why >are you settling for 'second best'? Why are you groveling, being politically >correct <like at work>, selling your clients down the river, being unethical >and smiling into everyone's face like this is OK? And you actually THINK you >are just so wonderful, huh?" ::rolling eyes::: I see this all damn day.

Shar: The used car salesman mentality. This is familiar.

>[me] >Want to go to the chiropractor with me tomorrow? They have massages >there...HEE HEE.

Shar: be right there.

> I told my spouse "SOMEDAY....I'll be able to sit by the sea >and paint again with my rose colored glasses BACK ON and be in >illusion-artist-land 24/7 and if REALITY dares to rear it's unwanted head in >my backyard, I can blast it with an airgun"...k?

Shar: That would become your reality. Awareness can be present even if you put on glasses to paint and lay in the sun.

> Can I do that? Will I be >entitled by then to say "allow me my delusions PLEASE"?? Huh huh? I can run >around and say "we are all one" again and actually believe it.

Shar: Sure, you could try that, but we know the truth, once the door is opened, you can never go back and live with dis-illusion.....Dam.......LOL

>[EJ > Yes, at times we wonder "why did we have to slip up and start > Waking-Up ?" > >you:] >Must have been a Pandora's box situation. We crossed over after a certain >life and there was this BOX and it said "no peeking" and it was just the box >and us in a room so guess what? We peeked! LOL!

Shar: Now try and close it so nobody knows you peeked..never happen unless they are blind.

> > > EJ:Things seemed easier when Sleeping, so we would like to go > back to Sleep. Some times we even try to go back to Sleep.

Shar: yes, tried that. again and again. Doesn't work. > > But alas, we > can not get the Door to our Awakening shut quite all the way. Once we > Open that Door, no matter how hard we try to close it back up, a little bit > of the Light of Awakening will ever after Shine through and disturb our > attempts to Sleep. So we trudge on.

Shr: trudging on, doing our best to lighten the load, taking on more at times, letting go other times.

>YOU: >Sounds like a Star Trek episode...To trudge on where no man has trudged on >before...

Shar: this is good.

>[you] > > It's along and lonely road some days. Still wishing for a massage. > >YOU: >Yeah RIGHT. Haven't learned that yet. Sorta like the insensitive telling >the sensitive to NOT be so sensitive so they can heap more crap on ya and get >away with it "just get OVER it...just say NO" yeah right.

Shar: No, not quite. One doesn't have to say no. The ideal is to allow them to dump without taking it on. Just listen to them and don't try and take away their pain, or their stuff. After all, it is not ours to fix. Learned that. I have learned to say " Don't try and make me feel guilty for what is happening to you.....

> "learn to swallow >it with grace" well you'll have to drag me kicking and screaming into that >dark night of soul before I learn to handle it with "grace".

Shar: It is with kicking and screaming that we all enter the dark night. Why would we choose to go there on our own. Once through it or in it, there is no turning back.

> If something >'hurts' it's for a REASON like when you stick your hand into the fire ...then >don't GO there. Why bother? Do you like pain? I don't.

Shar: It only hurts for a little while, that's what they tell me, that's what they say.........another oldie,,,,,,,,but to really clear the mind of stuff, sometimes a total crash is necessary.

>YOU: >Yet in the midst of this...isn't that a little superior? I don't feel sorry >for them.

It's not sorrow but empathy and compassion, which is without judgement. Being there done that, we recognize the pain and can say we are sorry for those who sleep/

>They picked their path and reaffirm it with every shackle and ball >and chain they clutch TO them while denying the awakening...ya know?

Shar: yes, and all we can do is live in our own moment, not taking on their pain, but being available to point when they ask the way. If we can be bliss, others notice and want to find bliss too, this is an invitation to point, until then, we watch the struggle.

>You lay >down with dogs...you get up with fleas so to speak. You reap what you >snuggle up to and sow. To me ...they...on SOME level...know that they are >affirming their place in the 'sleeping zone' with their illusions and >bulls*** so I do not feel sorry for them.

Shar: Oh oh gotta run or be late,,,,

talk later, no time to complete this right now.

Love ya Shar

Subject: Learning patience

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 22:39:13 -0600

Hello All!

'Although not a parent myself, I can appreciate how much patience parents must have with their children. Living with disability of one's own and with someone else's I think is the ultimate in practising patience <G> Of late, it seems that I am being tested daily. My partner joined an email group of blind cooks, and is cooking up a storm . . . lol! And I can tell you that the grocery budget is not the only thing that is depleting at a rapid pace . . . . GRrrrr! The bright side of this is that I don't have to cook and get to taste someone else's cooking . . . and I must admit that thus far it has been excellent. Has anyone here ever had a blind person who knows beans about cooking in their kitchen . . . aiyayai .... carambas! All I can say is ~ "Thank God for a dishwasher and a deep sink and many kitchen utensils . . . AND an ever greedy Cocker Spaniel who does a wonderful job of cleaning the tiled floor.

That's it for my bitching session in the now.

Subject: E.J. - freedom & understanding

From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 23:22:04 -0700

ray,

how cum i understand what u say but do not Know It... how cum i Know what u say but do not understand It...

there is no division betwixt the bells... overt konsciousness & inner konsciousness share their sustenance thru my skin... both are nourished thru an aspekt of Being... it is an aspekt of what i call my Self, tho my Self is merely the confluence of two dreams...

> It is the Inner Consciousness that I wish to impart -- the Consciousness Within. So, naturally, I say "Go Within INto Consciousness". And note that I said IN-to, meaning Dwelling IN/AS that Inner Consciousness. For it is only there that one can BE in the very present Moment NOW.

this is the legless frog Frisking the pond with its splash, rippling out & then back again into eternity all at the same Time... & kontrary to popular opinion, the Moment kan not be seized as there is nothing there to seized But the Moment.... & in this Moment, we live Eternally...

like mermaids, rainbows, unihorns & hummingbirds - a small aside: why korn when it's horn that we mean... & as for hummingbirds - is there not sum more magikal word for what they Are: birds with dragonfly wings, or perhaps dragonflies with feathers - merde!!! there is sum Magia here: purple monkeys klimbing mountains, legless frogs, penguins with bushy eyebrows & george goble shoes... zut alors!!! am i sleepwalking in disneys attik, having saki with magritte or just making an ash of myself at Overt's dry stag...

u kan see, ray, that terminology is a stumbling block to me... i see the finger, i see the moon, i see that my cup is full & empty at the same time & yet still flog myself for not Being IN/AS the MOMENT...

i try to Silence my mind; i suksede for a time while looking into the krossed eyes of the bushy-browed penguin sitting on my Monitor but before i'm aware of it, my 'mind' has taken me sumwhere else, & this is kool with me, ray, because if i fokus (or try to fokus) on the Moment, it eludes me like the Past & i end up with nothing but Silencio & Stillness - the bros drab... surely the Moment is not as bare(n) as this...

& if it's not barren, as u will tell me with a WHACK, why is the Fullness ex-scaping me... is there a whole thru which i am losing ur meaning...

am i that zzzoundly asleep???

& if i am, perhaps it's best to sleep zzzoundly, yes?

to me, ray, there is no *other* - there are many *others* but they are all me - a somnabulist???

with a soother, a teddy, & a 'blanken'

if i kan't projekt ideas & images i may as well put a gun to my head... as for meanings - i un/discover them thru these selfsame ideas & images ...

if i cudn't do that, the trees wud stop running barefoot towards me...

with utmost respekt & most excellent regards, grav de la merde, KtQb3

Subject: Re: E.J. - freedom & understanding

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 07:46:16 GMT

Greetings Volker,

Well..... long time no see, Dear Friend. Did you have a prosperous *trip* ?

You wrote: ->how cum i understand what u say but do not Know It...

Because you are afraid to BE it.

->how cum i Know what u say but do not understand It...

Because you look at the words and not the space between them.

->there is no division betwixt the bells... ->overt konsciousness & inner konsciousness share their sustenance thru my ->skin... both are nourished thru an aspekt of Being... it is an aspekt of ->what i call my Self, tho my Self is merely the confluence of two dreams...

There is Sleeping and there is Awakening. Likewise, there is a seeming reality based on our projections into the phenomenal realm and there is Reality based IN/AS our True Nature. Our True Nature is not *out there*. So the difference is our perception, either controlled/manipulated by our conditioned notions that are What-ISNOT or BEing What-IS this ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment AS it IS. One is a Dream and one is Reality, and it is up to us to Realize the difference. Why do you separate yourSelf from yourSelf by calling yourSelf yourSelf ?

-> & kontrary to popular ->opinion, the Moment kan not be seized as there is nothing there to seized ->But the Moment.... & in this Moment, we live Eternally...

Indeed, the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment is as water in an open hand or a shadow cast by the sun. Can not be held or carried about yet no matter where you go there you are. Can not be clung to nor can be escaped. Only in our deluded mind do we *think* we go anywhere.

-> am i sleepwalking in disneys attik, ->having saki with magritte or just making an ash of myself at Overt's dry ->stag...

The phenomenal realm does indeed exist, but we can not take it too seriously for it is too impermanent and too fleeting. There is movement in the phenomenal realm, but we are always right where we are and nowhere else. We are always in the right church, just rarely in the right pew.

->u kan see, ray, that terminology is a stumbling block to me... i see the ->finger, i see the moon, i see that my cup is full & empty at the same time & ->yet still flog myself for not Being IN/AS the MOMENT...

Terminology and language in general is a stumbling block for most. Most look and hear, but few See and Listen. Most *trip* on the words, but few pay Attention to the space between the words. Most have a cup that is full of conditioned notions therefore empty of Truth/Reality. When we Empty our cup of conditioned notions it is then Full of Truth/Reality. Intellectualizing/conceptualizing/rationalizing whatever, is not BEing. For BEing whatever, is a state of no intellectualizing/conceptualizing/rationalizing IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. And the Moment that the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment is Recognized it is already the past and no longer Truth/Reality. You have to drop the *you BEing* and simply BE you BEing.

->i try to Silence my mind; i suksede for a time while looking into the ->krossed eyes of the bushy-browed penguin sitting on my Monitor but before ->i'm aware of it, my 'mind' has taken me sumwhere else,

Controlled and manipulated by the conditioned programmed mind. The case rests.

->& this is kool with ->me, ray, because if i fokus (or try to fokus) on the Moment, it eludes me

It always will, for that which we Seek we will never find as we always look in the wrong place.

->like the Past & i end up with nothing but Silencio & Stillness - the bros ->drab... surely the Moment is not as bare(n) as this...

Only when you ARE the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment will you Realize Silence/Stillness/Awakening. We fool ourself by *blanking* the mind *thinking* that it is Silence or Stillness. Yet only IN/AS the Silence will we Hear, as only IN/AS the Void will we See, as only IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment will we BE Awakening.

->& if it's not barren, as u will tell me with a WHACK, why is the Fullness ->ex-scaping me... is there a whole thru which i am losing ur meaning...

The full cup can not be Filled. Empty the cup and it will be Full.

->am i that zzzoundly asleep???

Seems more like the confusion/disorientation just after hearing the AlarmClock.

->& if i am, perhaps it's best to sleep zzzoundly, yes?

Sleep is a disease/dis-ease. And once you hear the AlarmClock you can not get all the way back to comatose.

->to me, ray, there is no *other* - there are many *others* but they are all ->me - a somnabulist??? ->with a soother, a teddy, & a 'blanken'

Indeed, a sad commentary on the state of humanity.

->if i kan't projekt ideas & images i may as well put a gun to my head...

What makes you *think* you do not have a gun to your head ?

-> as for meanings - i un/discover them thru these selfsame ideas & images ...

That is what the Grand Trickster tells us, so it must be so {8->

Subject: Hey Gary! Teach me some patience - please ! :) :)

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 03:47:52 -0500

Hey Gary!

Sounds like you have the patience of "Job." You are such a sweet person; consider yourself lucky - all that good food, ummmm!

I used to cook from scratch, even all my breads. The house always smelled so good. Every Christmas, 3 weeks prior, I started baking Christmas Cookies - all kinds, about 20 different types. You could small the ginger, and all that good stuff! Unfortunately, the last 3 years, I have not done that because of my Chronic Pain Condition. But I did enjoy it, playing Christmas (country, of course! LOL), CD's , and start from morning to night - each weekend before Christmas. Christmas Eve, my kids and I went out "delivering" goodies for our friends, neighbors, and co-workers.

It was fun - but a lot of work and patience.

NOW! IT'S MY TURN TO "BITCH" AND MAN, AM I PISSED!!!!!!! It is 3:45 A.M., and I am babysitting my 6 year old and 13 month old granddaughters while my daughter is out on a date and promised to be home no later than 1 am. Of course, the kids are asleep, BUT, I can't go to sleep because of my sleeping meds, I would never wake up if Lexxy woke up, so I have to stay up.

Stay tuned . . . just wait until she gets home LOL - she has ME to face, and that ain't pretty.

Bitch session - over and out.

Love ya Gary!

Subject: YousefLateef

From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>

Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 00:48:36 -0700

YourSelf

We not only have to deal with our own conditioned notions, and since we do not live in a vacuum we have to deal with the various influences of our environment. For most of the time we can not simply smile and roll our eyes and continue on our way. Most times it is required to attend to another being in the Moment that we are in. But first, understand that another has no power to let you or not let you do anything, it is entirely in YOUR focus. YOU and YOU alone have the power to be distracted or not. We can not blame another for distracting us, we must take the responsibility to do something about it ourselves. Aside from that, how can anything that is IN/AS the Moment, that is happening the very Moment, be a distraction form the Moment ? Attending to What-IS in the Moment, and responding to it as though it is the very first Moment of the rest of our lives, IS in the Moment or in the NOW. Indeed, the amount of Moments experienced in a single day is staggering. That is, staggering IF we try to experience them all at once by observing them from one of these Moments that has passed. When we observe each Moment all by itself as though it were the entirety of eternity, it is but a single Moment to experience and respond to accordingly and skillfully.

ray, the above is all fine & well & true, as is the heading: UrSelf - (yousef lateef) but what u kall ur self is not the self that i call my self: my self is the self i live with on a moment to moment basis - or should that be - a Momentary basis -becuz, in my sleeping assumption - Moments ARE Not Plural - there is ONLY THEE MOMENT in which to mess around - BE - in & everything else is SLEEP...

The follow-up question would be: where are you when you are drawn from the NOW by these seeming distractions ? When we are IN/AS the Moment, whatever experience IS that Moment, is NOW.

when i am drawn from the Now into these distraktions, ray, i am In them as i am In the Moment when it is my time to Be in the Moment... while i am in the Distraktions, i am In the Distraktions as i am In the Moment when the Moment requires my presence...

u talk much of the Moment, sertainly u know that the moment needs no defense or proselytising - the Moment speaks for ItSelf because IT IS ALL THERE IS - all else is 'supposedly' superfluous... but this is not so...

all else may be shit & so on & so forth but IT IS THE MOMENT at that time & at THAT MOMENT the MOMENT DEMANDS ITS BEINGNESS... we respond to THAT MOMENT as THAT MOMENT DEMANDS...

what we DO in that MOMENT is our choice... we kan rise to the occaision or dekline: - BUT THE CHOICE IS OURS - NOT SUM DICTUM - & it is/will be our choice that MAKES THAT MOMENT WHAT IT IS... with or without us...

becuz the MOMENT DISILLS ITSELF IN ITS MOMENTNESS - IT ALSO IS WHAT IT IS... ALWAYS AS IS while we are the konstituents...

without us the moment will be, but it will not be for us...

if we WEENIE out of the MOMENT, okay; if we ARE in the MOMENT, okay as well - but to run around like chickens without heads wondering if WE ARE IN THE MOMENT - fuck that noise...

to be AWARE suffices, n'est-ce pas , ray???

for myself, distraktions are what draw me kloser to the waking stage - it's in/from the distraktions that i learn... & feed the creativity within my self... i need distraktions like i need air & water - if this is sleep, so be it - ur awakenedness may be wondrous, my sleepingness is wondrous as well, it may even be my choice, ray, but as long as i'm aware & DON'T LOSE my self, for me that works... the MOMENT IS AN OPEN DOOR, not a cage, & until we see that the door is unlocked & that we kan just walk out - until that happens, individually & freely, we will always stay inside...

the point & the finger, the frog & the jump, these are ONE, but until we experience that ONE, another aspekt of the MOMENT will be as it is...

i appreciate your oasis, your pond, your point & your compassion & humanity, E.J...

merely a neophyte reaktion to the WHACKS

bon soir, mon ami, i go now to klose my eyes or open them...

Subject: Re: Learning patience

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 04:53:55 -0700

Good morning Gary, you wrote:

And I must admit I had to laugh when I read your post.

>'Although not a parent myself, I can appreciate how much patience >parents must have with their children. Living with disability of one's >own and with someone else's I think is the ultimate in practising >patience <G>

No doubt. It's not easy without a disability, I can only imagine the situation. I'm not sure patience is what's learned, but the ability to ignore and accept.

>Of late, it seems that I am being tested daily.

Can I apply for the job as taster?

>The bright side of this is that I don't have to cook and get to taste >someone else's cooking . . . and I must admit that thus far it has been >excellent.

Sounds fabulous. Food always seems to taste better when someone else makes it. Yet with my restrictions it can be scary. If you discover a great pasta recipe please pass it on.

> Has anyone here ever had a blind person who knows beans about >cooking in their kitchen . . . aiyayai .... carambas!

No, but the vision grows. lol

>That's it for my bitching session in the now.

Thanks for sharing.

Good luck and happy eating

Subject: Re: The other Ray(con't)

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 05:44:17 -0700

>Renee: >I just draw that line in the sand >and say "do NOT cross over this line" because I don't buy into it. You can >believe and do all you want but do not expect me to roll over and follow you >down that path. Resistance is futile? Just watch me...<grin> >Yet...again..I do not feel sorry for them. To each his own.

Shar: Yes, we learn to set boundaries for ourselves. If I may once again use my brother as an example.The day before yesterday, he went to the Doc and got meds to aid in his once again quitting drinking. Out of curiousity I looked at the history on the receipt. Once a month, almost like clockwork since Dec, we go through this I am quitting routine. It lasts a couple of days then the sneaking around begins again. The trying to hide the bottles and the fact he is nipping becomes apparent. Then it's full storm ahead for the next 3 weeks. It's a cycle and a ploy. What it does is reinforce Mom and Dad's being nice to him because he is trying to quit. All of a sudden we have to be nice and help him once again. I say bullshit. I'm not falling into this drama. As long as he doesn't seek help outside through counselling or AA, I know it isn't serious. It's a game that I refuse to be drawn into. I can observe the players and the game, but refuse to play.

>[me] >I feel awake AND frustrated. I wish we could split the world up..."sleeping >zone" and "awake zone"...what a lovely delusion...hehe

Shar: I don't always feel I am awake and aware. It seems I always miss something and get surprised. These surprises show me that there is still some deep seated conditioning that wants to come to the surface. I think becoming aware takes time and it can't be rushed without a huge whack on the head through some trauma. Sometimes this happens with a NDE and yet, I know a person who says they have many NDE's and still suffer from dis-illusion. It's all in the translation of what a NDE is.

>[EJ: > I would only add that the *reactions* that this generates, whether > IN/AS the participants or IN/AS those just observing, is the very material > for us to Self-Observe our conditioned programmed thinking and behavior so > that we can "know thyself". > >Renee: >yeah? And then what?

Shar: Then nothing other than awareness of self. There is no fireworks, no big bang, only self awareness and less suffering. Life always presents us with experiences to practise, it changes nothing but our attitude and responses to what is.

>[me] > >They also said ...from the Gospel of St. Thomas.... > >"Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be >disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed"

Shar: In becoming aware of yourself, your conditioning, you will then be aware of the conditioning around you.

>"You do not know who I am from what I say to you. Rather, you have become >like the Jewish people, for they love the tree but hate its fruit, or they >love the fruit but hate the tree."

Shar: Loving the roses but hating the thorns, yet one can not have one without the other. For a rose can not be rose without the stem of the rose. .

>EJ: > Did they not say "be as little children" for they are > without the defilements of the world ? > >You: >He also said "Foxes have their dens and birds have their nests but the Child >of Humankind has no place to lay his head and rest"

Shar: no wonder we are so tired. How can we rest when we are filled with fear and conditioning. Didn't someone say " Evil lurks in the hearts of men?" Don't ask me who said what, I never remember those details,only the message. That's why it is important to build the retreat, a place to rest, work, learn and grow.....

Subject: Re: YousefLateef

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 15:44:22 GMT

Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->R:> We not only have to deal with our own conditioned notions, and since ->we do not live in a vacuum we have to deal with the various influences of ->our environment. For most of the time we can not simply smile and roll ->our eyes and continue on our way. Most times it is required to attend to ->another being in the Moment that we are in. But first, understand that ->another has no power to let you or not let you do anything, it is entirely ->in YOUR focus. YOU and YOU alone have the power to be distracted or not. ->We can not blame another for distracting us, we must take the ->responsibility to do something about it ourselves. Aside from that, how ->can anything that is IN/AS the Moment, that is happening the very Moment, ->be a distraction form the Moment ? Attending to What-IS in the Moment, ->and responding to it as though it is the very first Moment of the rest of ->our lives, IS in the Moment or in the NOW. Indeed, the amount of Moments ->experienced in a single day is staggering. That is, staggering IF we try ->to experience them all at once by observing them from one of these Moments ->that has passed. When we observe each Moment all by itself as though it ->were the entirety of eternity, it is but a single Moment to experience and ->respond to accordingly and skillfully. -> ->V:>ray, the above is all fine & well & true, as is the heading: UrSelf - ->(yousef lateef) but what u kall ur self is not the self that i call my self: ->my self is the self i live with on a moment to moment basis - or should that ->be - a Momentary basis -becuz, in my sleeping assumption -

There is only one of us Dear Friend, so we each are talking of the same self. Most consider themselves to be the conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automaton they have become, which is not what their True Nature IS so is not who they are. This they erroneously call their self. They Identify with those conditionings so they *think* it who they are.

->V:>Moments ARE Not ->Plural - there is ONLY THEE MOMENT in which to mess around - BE - in & ->everything else is SLEEP...

*Deep Bow*

->R:>The follow-up question would be: where are you when you are drawn from ->the NOW by these seeming distractions ? When we are IN/AS the Moment, ->whatever experience IS that Moment, is NOW. -> ->V:>when i am drawn from the Now into these distraktions, ray, i am In them as i ->am In the Moment when it is my time to Be in the Moment... while i am in ->the Distraktions, i am In the Distraktions as i am In the Moment when the ->Moment requires my presence...

As the distractions are in your head, so too is the movement of being drawn. You can not stray from where you are. You can never be in the Moment while you *think* you can be drawn from it. Pay Attention to where you ARE and not where you think you have been or where you think you are going. The Moment is Here yet you Recognize it not. The Moment requires nothing for it simply IS, whether we like it or not. Let go of the conditioned programmed contents of the mind so they will not keep distracting you, for without the contents we Realize that there are no distractions.

->u talk much of the Moment, sertainly u know that the moment needs no defense ->or proselytising - the Moment speaks for ItSelf because IT IS ALL THERE IS - ->all else is 'supposedly' superfluous... but this is not so...

Defense ? The Moment is not defended here, for as you say the Moment needs no defending. All that can be Pointed to is what the Moment is not. The ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment IS All there IS, yet few Recognize it. Most are a step behind or a step ahead of themselves. Yet all else is not *extra* or something in *addition* to the Moment, but rather *other than* the Moment. As all else is the past or future, and the memories and thoughts of such. The Sleeping would like to *think* all else is "'supposedly' superfluous" to the Moment. But alas, you can not have your cake and eat it too. That is, you can not harbor conditioned notions and BE the Moment at the same time.

->all else may be shit & so on & so forth but IT IS THE MOMENT at that time & ->at THAT MOMENT the MOMENT DEMANDS ITS BEINGNESS... we respond to THAT ->MOMENT as THAT MOMENT DEMANDS...

So preaches the Grand Trickster. If you buy that, I would like to interest you in some ocean front property in Idaho. That is, you can not harbor conditioned notions and BE the Moment at the same time. You can not serve two Masters at the same time.

->what we DO in that MOMENT is our choice... we kan rise to the occaision or ->dekline: - BUT THE CHOICE IS OURS - NOT SUM DICTUM - & it is/will be our ->choice that MAKES THAT MOMENT WHAT IT IS... with or without us...

->becuz the MOMENT DISILLS ITSELF IN ITS MOMENTNESS - IT ALSO IS WHAT IT IS... ->ALWAYS AS IS while we are the konstituents...

You can not be separate from the Moment, as participant or constituent. When you Identify yourself with other than the Moment you can not BE the Moment. That is, you can not harbor conditioned notions and BE the Moment at the same time.

->without us the moment will be, but it will not be for us...

Is there someone for the Moment to be for ? Or a Moment for someone not to be ? The Moment is for no one, nor is anyone for the Moment. That is, you can not harbor conditioned notions and BE the Moment at the same time. It is in BEing and not in thinking about whether it is or where we are in it.

->if we WEENIE out of the MOMENT, okay; if we ARE in the MOMENT, okay as ->well - but to run around like chickens without heads wondering if WE ARE IN ->THE MOMENT - fuck that noise...

You are chasing your shadow Dear Friend. When you turn out the lights where is your shadow hiding ? And it gets very tiring chasing your tail, though we have a long tale.

->to be AWARE suffices, n'est-ce pas , ray???

->for myself, distraktions are what draw me kloser to the waking stage - it's ->in/from the distraktions that i learn... & feed the creativity within my ->self... i need distraktions like i need air & water - if this is sleep, so ->be it - ur awakenedness may be wondrous, my sleepingness is wondrous as ->well, it may even be my choice, ray, but as long as i'm aware & DON'T LOSE ->my self, for me that works... the MOMENT IS AN OPEN DOOR, not a cage, & ->until we see that the door is unlocked & that we kan just walk out - until ->that happens, individually & freely, we will always stay inside...

Condolences and sympathy from here go out to you Dear Friend. It is great sorrow that you Suffer such affliction. For all the intellectualization and all the conceptualization and all the rationalization can not put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

->the point & the finger, the frog & the jump, these are ONE, but until we ->experience that ONE, another aspekt of the MOMENT will be as it is...

Well..... what is holding you back ? Why do you cling to those blankets holding them over your head ? Wake-Up and smell the coffee. Try it, you may like it. The Moment IS One.

->i appreciate your oasis, your pond, your point & your compassion & humanity, ->E.J...

And it is appreciated that what you appreciate is appreciated Wonderful Appreciative Friend. Are you having a Spiritual Experience or is the Spiritual Experience having you ?

Subject: Re: Patience

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:10:40 -0600

Hi Pam, Hi Sharlene and Hi All!

Shar: > I'm not sure patience is what's learned, but the ability to ignore and accept.

Gary: That is good ~ I must chew on it more and digest it . . . LOL . . . metaphorically speaking of course.

Pam: > NOW! IT'S MY TURN TO "BITCH" AND MAN, AM I PISSED!!!!!!! It is 3:45 A.M., > and I am babysitting my 6 year old and 13 month old granddaughters while my > daughter is out on a date and promised to be home no later than 1 am. Of > course, the kids are asleep, BUT, I can't go to sleep because of my sleeping > meds, I would never wake up if Lexxy woke up, so I have to stay up. > > Stay tuned . . . just wait until she gets home LOL - she has ME to face, and > that ain't pretty.

Gary: Ha, ha! Been there done that albeit in different circumstance. SET BOUNDARIES is the answer, or learn to say "NO" if that doesn't work. We become the WELCOME door mat for feet to be wiped on. Every so often the mat needs to be removed and cleaned, or else the WELCOME will not be seen.

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE???

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 21:08:30 -0500

Hi All!

Would you believe 8:00 A.M. my daughter strolled in to this house? Yea - listen to her excuse: "mom, I'm so sorry, I just crashed at my friends house." Ummm - yea - with a smile on her face, no less!

Guess What?? She lost the use of my car, and "babysitting" privileges. I just got about an hour ago - and look what time it is!!! 9:05 P.M. Yes, I'm pissed.

I admit, I am a doormat - that child has stepped all over me since the moment she was born - so have my other kids, except Chris.

Although, well, just look into my beautiful granddaughter's eyes - how could I refuse them?? No, they are my life.

Okay, I admit it - I need help - help to say "no!" and MEAN IT!!!

Thank you all. You are so wonderful to me (My God, what would I do without all of you???).

Love ya!

Subject: Re: patients and children

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 06:01:51 -0700

Hi all,

I forget the fancy words but the drift is "Your children are not your children, they come through you, not from you. They are souls having their own experience."

The children have their own karma, their own paths,and their own conditioning from their past to work through and with. We are not responsible for them as adults. We don't own them nor do we have the right to choose what they do with their lives. We can only make choices of our own responses and reactions.

My eldest has a degree in nursing and works for public health. She started in the hospitals but didn't care for working with the after effects, so decided she wanted to enter the field of preventative medicine through education. She likes going into the schools and working directly with the younger people.

My other daughter took hair dressing and design. Her scolliosis (sp) caused her pain and couldn't continue with that, so went back and took computer graphics. She works with 3D design for her husbands company. They make the fiberglass covers for open box cars. If you see any caps, chances are they designed them. To me they look the same but each one is separately designed for each purpose and different country. As usual, the trains are different in each country. They like their jobs as they get to travel all over the world at the companies expense.

Intellectually they have done well for themselves. As people, they also do quite well. Most of the times we are friends but occasionally when the phone rings I hear this resounding "mommmmy I need you" and I know I have to get into Mom mode for awhile.

They have made some choices in their lives that I found myself biting my tongue at, but it's their choices, not mine. They also parent different than I did. There are changes in each generation. These days it seems parents allow their children to stay up at night longer than we did. I think now in working homes, it's mostly for some family time together. The younger generation is growing up tired already.

Through observation in stores,malls,etc, I see more young children throwing tantrums, expressing anger and becoming a "I want" generation. The over worked protection laws for children now, discipline is an almost forgotten art. Time outs may work for some but when the bedrooms are filled with entertainment, it is just another place to play. the pendulum is swinging to far into the "let's talk about your behavior mode" The damage that gets done through the talking is worse than a swift slap on the butt or a slap on the fingers if the word "no" is ignored. More parents yell at their kids because they aren't allowed to spank them. Many are becoming timid and uptight waiting for the loud voice to happen at any minute. For others- Abuse is an over worked word to the point where no one knows how to raise their children any more. Parents live in fear of child services and child protection agencies, and many children use this to their advantage and blackmail the parents with threats of calling the help line.

The world has gone over the deep end. We have ended up with a total confusion of what is right or wrong, what is allowed and what isn't. I wouldn't want to be raising kids today for anything. Is it any wonder the drug trade is as large as it is? Is it any wonder why the streets are filled with runaways? Is it any wonder why their is so much anger and violence in the schools today? Confusion,government, churches and parents are all sending different messages. Games children play are violent games, killing games, and we allow Nintendo, computers and TV to raise our children, then we pack them off to church on Sunday or tell them not to misbehave. Parenting is a thing of the past. Family time is none existant. We substitute "stuff" for time. We work ourselves to death, to buy more stuff. We don't work to put food on the table, we work because we see ourselves as failures if we don't have big homes, three cars, etc, and the family unit suffers, we send the wrong messages to the young. How many times have we heard, we both have to work to pay the bills, when the bills didn't have to be there in the first place if it wasn't for stuff......

Oh my, I am on a roll this morning, yikes.......

I don't know if I am on a soap box or the pulpit....

Subject: Re: patients And - I would like to add to this post!

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 03:08:45 -0500

Hello Ms. Sehlene:

My son (26), owns a beautiful home, has a wonderful wife with a child due next week. He is a top executive at Brystal Meyers and got himself through College.

My oldest daughter lives in Florida - is a nurse and works with Altheimers Patients

My youngest daughter (the one in questions) does have 2 beautiful children, is in the "separation" process, and has a college degree.

All my children did this on their own.

I'm still allowed to "bitch."

Me? Not nothing much. I have an Associates Degree in "Legal/Administrative Secretary," also a CNA Licence, but have many creditentials in the "Death & Dying" area. I've worked with the terminally ill for 6 years now, and have studied extensively "death & dying." In fact, I have a lot of "certificates" in this and other areas. Several "awards" from many diferent organizations, such as: Lions Club, VNA, Hospice, etc. etc.

I'm really not much of a mother or person.

Pam Coupe

Thank you., by the way, I also ask - do you have children and what do they do?

Subject: The Ray Today

From: Sharlene <Sharlene@Light-Mission.org>

Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 07:54:13 -0700

To an extent all leaning can be considered a conditioning. But our Awakening is not encumbered by all that we learn, for much of what we learn is needed to function in the everyday life we have established for ourself.

S: True, we learn to wash, clean up, how to get to work on time,cook etc. This itself is not conditioning, but how we respond or act towards these things, are conditionings.

Thank you for your reply in bring this up, for indeed not all conditioning is *Toxic*.

I don't know who brought it up but conditioning is different than survival skills. The learning of the skill is not a condition or conditioning, the why's, and response to the skill is conditioned. Anyone can do dishes, but not everyone enjoys doing them. Although they must somehow be done. If we teach that doing dishes is preparation and not completion a different outlook or attitude becomes present. We teach skills, we pass on attitude.

For Truth is not in what another tells us, but rather in our own Realization of Truth by the Pointers of another.

Shar: Try it, you may like. Learn by doing, not by watching. Practise, practise, practise.

As an added note: Listening to the Pointers and Understanding the Pointers and acknowledging the Pointers' value and benefit and accepting them as Truth, is far afield of Walking the Way of those Pointers. For our Salvation, our Awakening, does not lie in the Realization of the defilements that those Pointers Point to but rather in Walking the Way after we let go of those defilements. The Path, The Way, must be Walked and not just Talked about. Many Talk the Talk, but few Walk the Walk.

Shar: And some of us walk slowly, and some of us trip by not being totally aware at all times, and some of end up dancing, 2 steps forward and one back. And yet, we will get there, one step at a time.........Our vision is 20/20 hindsight.

Good day to all, onward and upward........

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE??? **THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT :)"

From: "Pamela J. Coupe" <star980@snet.net>

Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 11:33:00 -0500

Hi:

You are so right. I raised my kids the best way I knew how under the circumstances I was in. The woman doesn't know me, nor my children.

A month ago, I attempted suicide. Guess what! It was my son that saved me. He stayed with me for almost 48 hours straight. He never left my side except to go into work, and then come right to the hospital. He has been my "rock."

I have wonderful kids, and I'm very proud of them. I posted in a previous email what they are doing today.

I was only "bitching" because it FELT GOOD! Some of us were!

Whoever this woman is, one thing is for sure - SHE IS NOT GOD - SO SHE SHOULD NOT JUDGE.

I emailed EJ about her post, and was so upset that I was never going to post to this board again, she has absolutely no idea how she made me feel. However, thanks to EJ's reply, I will continue to post - the majority of the members on this board are absolutely awesome.

We are a very supportive group, and since I've been back posting, I've had fun, support, I've cried, and arms have reached out to me. Except this one person - she must really have a "reality" problem.

Love you!

Subject: Storm in a Tea Cup!

From: "Gary L. Rocha" <glr@home.com>

Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 12:31:28 -0600

The lessons in Awakening have varied ways of presenting themselves for the practice. They can bring forth 'reactions' or 'responses'. Thank you Renee for your posting. I liked what you said about raising your kids "with an iron fist in a velvet glove". And Sharlene ~ I agree that the pendulum has swayed too far the other way. As in any 'changes' there is always a period for adjustment; I would say perhaps this is it that we are going through. Would you say E.J. that this is the transition through the change from one Age to another? And ~ dear Pam, thank you for sharing your 'bitching' session with the rest of us. This is what this forum is all about. To share the frustrations, anger, and all the other negative emotions, and with all of that, to know that Love IS and Love allows for this without judgment nor condemnation. Like I once said to E.J., were I "perfect", I wouldn't be here vibrating at this level! But watch my smoke guys . . . lol!

Ciao and (((Love)))

Subject: Re: Patience WOULD YOU BELIEVE???

From: LaRAZZZA@aol.com

Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 11:08:45 EDT

In a message dated 5/19/01 7:01:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sehlene@dragonswing.net writes:

<< Dear Pamela, You may find what I have to say very uncomfortable, but it needs to be said to you.

[me] Since you put this up in a member forum for all of us to read, I wish to ask you WHY you felt the need to state what you said here.. Why do you feel it needed to be 'said' since this is a personal opinion of yours. Just curious. Did you need to say it for YOU or for Pam?

[you] This is not about YOU it is about what kind of people you are bringing into this world, people the rest of us will have to deal with later on.

[me] Sounds like you have a personal gutt experience here of maybe dealing with someone that was 'produced' by lax parents in some way? While I can relate more so than you think to *those* kinds of people <dregs of society> that we all have to deal with 'later' (which really is now)...I still don't see why Pam suddenly has taken on the karma of the entire world here in terms of parents. We don't know Pam on a daily basis so we really don't know if she's such a 'bad' parent after all....right? <again subjective judgement of Pam>

[you] Each time you 'give in' you are saying a whole lot of things to those children none of which should ever be said by a responsible adult to a child in their care.

[me] Well...spare the rod and spoil the child is certainly true however....each situation is different. An iron fisted parent doesn't do a child's self esteem very well here. I was raised by an abusive iron fisted parent (pendulum can swing both ways) and 'giving in' is subjective. What I may feel is too tolerant for my children might be too strict for another parent. Parenthood is SO subjective that it is hard to pinpoint exact guidelines as to what is 'good' and 'bad' for a child <dualistic anyway>...one also has to factor in culture, race, country, religion, extended family, circumstances, education, the 'caste' one is born into for lack of a better word, etc. What might be ok to do in Arabic countries to a young girl <like female castration> is not acceptable in America <unless you are Arabic and doing it anyway whether we know it or not>. Yes...permissiveness is prevalent in our society but if you allow the 'top dogs' to get away with murder or ANYTHING in a country...what kind of message does that send to the rest of the country and the world? Get my point? This seems to be a 'world' trend ...why I don't know.

By the way, sometimes 'giving in' is a good thing for a kid. Yes kids test but sometimes they do the 'I want to break the rules and see just how much you love me' thing. Each situation is different. Are we dictators as parents or benevolent 'rulers'? And what is this need for 'control' that we seem to always have going on in the world anyway? I hate that. Dictators raise dictators. Course dictators raise rebels too. I do a mix of hard line and extreme tolerance with my kids. I have one in college who works full time at 19 yrs old as a cell phone operator at $15/hour while going through her Graphic Arts program. I raised her with an iron fist in a velvet glove and I spoiled the heck out of her too. She deserved it! What's wrong with that so long as she turns out with ethics, decency, compassion for others and can put food on the table and a roof over her head ?? My second daughter is completely different from her...gentle, sweet <so far...hehe>, an artist ...extremely sensitive...if we say BOO to her it causes her lovely green eyes to mist up with tears while her older sister is fiery, determined, pissy, stubborn, rebellious and tenacious. Each child is different. My son, in special ed due to many medical problems growing up is just like I was <with medical problems growing up>...sensitive and determined yet a total airhead. Each kid is so different. One can't use a blanket 'rule' across the board for each child.

[you] First, you are telling them that you do not care about them enough to set limits and stick to them.

[me] That's a huge statement to make based on one incident.

[you] Secondly, you are showing them that irresponsible behavior by an adult is acceptable. Third, you are setting them up for failure as parents.

[me] You are also being highly irresponsible by sending out psychological statements to Pam that somehow she is an awful parent based on one incident. Walk a mile.

[you] Forth, you are letting your personal needs come before theirs. As your children, you have to take responsibility for bringing them into the world. This means that you do the very best you can to teach them an ethical standard to live by, the importance of their own spirituality, and most of all you teach them how to care for themselves but not at the expense of others.

[me] ooooooooook (???)

[you] Pamela, raising children is not a game, a sport, or a 'feel good' activity. It requires ethics in place, responsible decisions, integrity, and helping them grow to be valuable members of society not society's dregs.

[me] As if society's dregs are a 'waste'! What happened to ...everyone has their place? How can you lump the 'dregs' of society into one huge 'box' without looking at people on an individual basis...case by case like I do since it's my life's work? I resent it when people do these pigeonhole type behaviors such as the one above. There are lots of DREGS that due to circumstances, lose all that they own or because they suffer mental health problems, domestic violence or whatEVER...end up needing help and to me, are not 'dregs' nor are they irresponsible. Bad things happen to regular people. This is such a huge topic that I could go on and on here but I'll spare you since you seem to be so set in your views. Barfola.

[you] You do not show your children love when you permit the kind of nonsense you describe. You are showing them how to cheat, and get away with it.

[me] Ach tung! Again...very harsh based on one incident...one 'infraction' and we should send them to the gallows...LOL.

BAD Pam...veddy BAD Pam! 40 lashes with a wet noodle...<grin>

Part of parenthood that is IDEAL is to be able to have a support group to VENT with and 'in'...to blow off steam so one doesn't explode and be destructive with those around them in expressing their frustation. DUH. I don't have a problem with that:o)

Tink of Neverland

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