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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.

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~ August - Page 1 ~

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Subject: Re: 10 good ideas

From: "Bruce Robert" <bru_t@hotmail.com>

Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:45:57 +0100

ejLight, Have you reached what you would consider 'enlightenment'? Are you indeed a BUddha in waiting, ready as I type to step off the "Birth/Death ring"... because you speak as though you have let go of all "causes of suffering"? Or have you just read about a philosophy and agreed with it as being 'right'? I think we all need to be reminded of good ideas from time to time. Even more so of the spirit in which they are said.

Bruce (an occasional dropper-in-er to this forum)

Subject: Re: 10 good ideas

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:48:52 GMT

Greetings Bruce, you wrote: ->Have you reached what you would consider 'enlightenment'? Are you indeed a ->BUddha in waiting, ready as I type to step off the "Birth/Death ring"... ->because you speak as though you have let go of all "causes of suffering"? Or ->have you just read about a philosophy and agreed with it as being 'right'? ->I think we all need to be reminded of good ideas from time to time. Even ->more so of the spirit in which they are said.

*I* am not, there is simply Awakening. As long as there is an *I* there can only be a philosophy, and no Awakening. We are always studying, we are always learning, we are always Unfolding, but there is no greater Wonder than when we are BEing. Philosophies, ideas, conceptualizations, are but contrivances of conditionings. These are our knowledge. Silence of mental chatter, Stillness of being, Void of conditionings, is BEing our True Nature. These are our Awakening. We can only read *about* Awakening, whereas Awakening is in BEing What-IS AS it IS. When there is identification with this or that there is only *belief*, whereas Awakening is in Directly Experiencing and thus BEing IN/AS the ever anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment from Moment to Moment. This is not a philosophy or an idea or a conceptualization or even a rationalization, but rather a state of BEing What-IS Truth/Reality AS it IS at the very instant Moment it IS. And one can not get it from a book of following an ideology. One can only get it by BEing it.

Many Talk the Talk, and many even *think* they Walk that Talk. Sleeping, parrots sound like the Masters of yore and so fool both themselves and others. Yet they leave foot prints in the sand as they Talk the Walk. Awakening, though Truth/Reality is the very same Truth/Reality offered by Masters of yore, it is ever anew and can not be repeated as we can not step into the water of a flowing stream twice. And there will be no foot prints in the sand as we Walk the Talk.

~ At Zanbocy By Yokayoki ~

IN/AS the Stillness setting at the edge of the Yokayoki

A most Powerful place to BE at the foot of the Zanbocy,

The most Beautiful of streams so Ebony yet Crystal Clear

You can even See the Pleiades right up close from Here.

In the foothills of this mountain there is certain Mystique

Where the only Sound is the rushing waters so unique,

Peering into the Ebony Clear waters and See All that IS

From nowhere What-IS there is no Serenity just like this.

Even the Spiritual Power of the Ganges can't compare

When Eternal Presence of the Yokayoki's Flow is there,

So too the Wisdom from the Himalayas is but a tapestry

For overwhelming Wonder of Zanbocy's Silent majesty.

All dwarfed when we take a dip IN/AS Eternity Infinite

Though clinging to conditionings you aren't there yet,

To take Retreat at Zanbocy by Yokayoki Awakening

You must lose yourself and you must let go everything.

You must BE Void of every one of conditioned notions

As you must BE Silence with no mental chatter motions,

You must BE Stillness as the nothingness that is not far

To BE Awakening IN/AS the True Nature that we ARE.

So what might be a Real cost of such a Divine Retreat

And once visited can we go back there so as to repeat,

There Price that few agree to Pay is everything we think

And everything we dearly cling to as our very security link.

It is just a one shot deal so you can not go back or ahead

When you are baptized in the Yokayoki you stay instead,

IN/AS the Ebony Crystal Clear waters so not in your head

When you leave those waters you wish that you are dead.

2001 - Yogajyotii

Subject: kreatures & elementals

From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:41:31 -0700

desire gives rise to the formation of a thought, & this thought is made alive by the will, & obtains substantiality & the right to live by being acted out... it is easier to avoid creating such an Elemental than to kill it after it has been created; because such a being (the Elemental we create) is a part of our own self, & its destruction involves suffering...

as creatures, we too create but we cannot create in perfection because we do not create in a vaccuum, or the Urgrund (the groundlessness out of which God created Himself)... we create as a fractal of God... & the fractals create fractals of themselves & so on & so forth...

if u don't hear this from your candomble, beware... there are other santerias & sanitoriums...

ben e cemoli

Subject: Re: kreatures & elementals

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 05:42:58 GMT

Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->desire gives rise to the formation of a thought, & this thought is made ->alive by the will, & obtains substantiality & the right to live by being ->acted out...

"As a man thinketh, so is *he*". Man is a Legend in his own mind. Man "creates" his delusions and folly, and even then he is aided by the Grand Trickster. But you have it backward Dear Friend, for it is thought that gives rise to desire. Conditioned thought and conditioned desire. Thus, both thought and desire is spawned by the Grand Trickster as is man's so called "will". Only Sleeping do such live, as only Sleeping does man live them.

-> it is easier to avoid creating such an Elemental than to kill ->it after it has been created; because such a being (the Elemental we create) ->is a part of our own self, & its destruction involves suffering...

Man the Creator, the creator of War and Conflict and Suffering and Pain via his deluded Judgements and Values. The Grand Trickster Created man in his Image, thus man is the "Elemental".

->as creatures, we too create but we cannot create in perfection because we do ->not create in a vaccuum, or the Urgrund (the groundlessness out of which God ->created Himself)... we create as a fractal of God... & the fractals create ->fractals of themselves & so on & so forth...

Man is indeed the *Creature Feature* in the Broadway Comedy "The Tragedy Man". And so his Funeral Pyre is Lit. Perhaps Batman can thwart his self-destruction and Save him.

->if u don't hear this from your candomble, beware... ->there are other santerias & sanitoriums...

~ Gnashing Of Teeth ~

What is your conditioned Pleasure of the body or mind

Both are but Tools to carry out your wishes of any kind,

Do not get Burned Out when you are messing with Fire

For there really is no Purgatory quite like that of Desire.

They are but instant gratification so they will never last

Then they are just memories in the archives of the past,

When directly experienced still they were not complete

So there is always Suffering as the Pleasures compete.

There's certain Pain with every Pleasure it's not enough

Right there lurking in the Shadows is conditioned stuff,

You Suffer so you need relief yet relief is another buffer

Because that seeming relief just Causes you to Suffer.

The so Vicious Circle or an Eternal Gnashing of Teeth

Your existence is imprisoned via a conditioned Sheath,

All you really have to do is get off the Merry-Go-Round

You will never catch your tail that you think you found.

If you really want True Teaching you better Listen well

Such as simply hearing the words is your ticket to Hell,

The Kali Yuga Cycle Train is bearing down on you fast

So Open to Truth/Reality for the opportunity won't last.

2001 - Yogajyotii

Subject: Re: 10 good ideas

From: "Bruce Robert" <bru_t@hotmail.com>

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:08:07 +0100

Greetings E.J, Why do you speak using "we", who are you speaking for? The questions were asked to you personally, as I am interested in what *you* have to say for yourself as your ideas are interesting. Let's not let language side track the issues - we both understand that the convention of using "I" and "you" are perfectly useful & clear pronouns-refering-to-person for the purposes of= this discussion aren't they? Or are you going to argue that E.J is not the name of a *person*? Using "we" instead makes even less sense doesn't it? So, have you reached what you, E.J, describe as "Awakening"? Although you state that Awakening is "devoid of conditionings" and that "..Philosophies, ideas, conceptualizations,are but contrivances of conditionings..", you have= outlined some salient points of a *philosophy*, which I am reading about just as you were writing about, you presented *ideas* from your mind, involve/describe/quote *concepts* such as "Awakening", "True Nature", etcetc, which are clearly constructs present within your mind (they may mentally describe what you experience as true/reality/being.... but then so do many concepts). What's more, all that you wrote remains only a hypothesized philosophical viewpoint if you are not living that philosophy, which is why I am asking you, "have you reached what you conceive as Awakening?". If you maintain that you do not "conceive" what Awakening means, then substitute 'describe'? If "have you reached" is a problem expression, then substitute "is E.J Being in what E.J describes as....", etc.

And, in this state that you yourself are BEing, living, have you let go of all causes of suffering? If so, does that mean you, E.J, never feel suffering anymore, your life is free from all suffering? How about pain, fear, despair, loneliness? Surely with your knowledge & clear sight you will= be able to give a clear answer to that without clouding such a simple question?

Subject: Re: 10 good ideas

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 02:13:26 GMT

Greetings Bruce, you wrote: ->Why do you speak using "we", who are you speaking for?

We as in humans.

->The questions were ->asked to you personally, as I am interested in what *you* have to say for ->yourself as your ideas are interesting.

Who is "I", as who is "you" ? Is there really anything to *own* ? Does not "I" connote a Mask we wear that is ever changing like the weather ? Personal identity is an Illusion of our own contrivance as an appearance, which mostly fools ourself as we identify with this or that. When we let go of the notion of a separate "you" and "I", and the ownership of either, there is only BEing whatever IS. We carry around this baggage all or most of our life, and it only keeps us in a state of disharmony and conflict both with ourself and with others. Not all offerings necessitate some personal identification. What-IS happens to be What-IS, and is not *mine* or *your's* or anyone else's. It simply IS, regardless of whether Pointed to by *someone* or *no one*.

->Let's not let language side track ->the issues - we both understand that the convention of using "I" and "you" ->are perfectly useful & clear pronouns-refering-to-person for the purposes of= ->this discussion aren't they?

Though language, inherently Dualistic by nature, is most cumbersome Pointing to NonDuality, True Understanding is in the space between the words and not in the words themselves. So, it would seem, Understanding is not in the face value of "pronouns" or a "person" or *finger* but rather where the finger Points.

->Or are you going to argue that E.J is not the ->name of a *person*?

Labels, it seems, are byproducts of Duality though we use them in articulating this and that. That can not be at question. But using them to denote some personal possession or some authority is most questionable. Truth and Reality stand on their own and need no authority to verify them as such.

->Using "we" instead makes even less sense doesn't it?

When there is only a conceptual entity (identity), "we" is all there is whether it makes sense or not.

->So, have you reached what you, E.J, describe as "Awakening"? Although you ->state that Awakening is "devoid of conditionings"

There is no goal to reach Dear Friend, as Awakening is a verb thus most ongoing. So too is being Mindful of letting go of conditioned notions and Mindful of conditioned notions always endeavoring to thwart our Awakening. There is no merit in the finger, so it is of little use to wonder whether the finger is worthy of Attention. Fashion glamorizes the finger so our Attention is distracted thus we never See where the finger Points.

-> and that "..Philosophies, ->ideas, conceptualizations,are but contrivances of conditionings..", you have= ->outlined some salient points of a *philosophy*, which I am reading about ->just as you were writing about, you presented *ideas* from your mind, ->involve/describe/quote *concepts* such as "Awakening", "True Nature", ->etc etc, which are clearly constructs present within your mind (they may ->mentally describe what you experience as true/reality/being.... but then so ->do many concepts).

Those who rely on concepts fit everything into concepts, viewing everything as a concept whether it is or not. Yet it is in Realizing our True Nature, BEing our True Nature, BEing this very anew Present Moment, that concepts are Recognized as but folly of the deluded. So there is no authority beyond BEing, as BEing is it's own authority. No concept, nor anyone offering such, can authenticate BEing for BEing IS the very Essence of Truth/Reality AS it IS at the very anew Present Moment that it IS. Simply BE.

->What's more, all that you wrote remains only a ->hypothesized philosophical viewpoint if you are not living that philosophy, ->which is why I am asking you, "have you reached what you conceive as ->Awakening?".

Awakening is not a concept but rather a state of BEing. And the "I" can not Directly Experience such, so the "I" must be one of the conditioned notions we let go AS our Awakening.

-> If you maintain that you do not "conceive" what Awakening ->means, then substitute 'describe'? If "have you reached" is a problem ->expression, then substitute "is E.J Being in what E.J describes as....", ->etc.

Awakening can only be Pointed to, and when we pay too much Attention to the finger we never See where it might Point.

->And, in this state that you yourself are BEing, living, have you let go of ->all causes of suffering? If so, does that mean you, E.J, never feel ->suffering anymore, your life is free from all suffering? How about pain, ->fear, despair, loneliness? Surely with your knowledge & clear sight you will= ->be able to give a clear answer to that without clouding such a simple ->question?

We always ask the same questions. Since time immemerable, we have always asked the same questions. And we have always asked them of others. Yet the only one we can Truly Know is "thyself". Perhaps our answers are in the questions. For it does not really matter *who* is Enlightened but "thyself". BE Stillness and simply BE. No one can do that for us, it is what we must do ourself.

Subject: 3 good ideas

From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>

Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 19:15:16 -0700

bruce & joseph, especially bruce

why bother with nit picking - why try to pin the moment to itself when the moment is unpinnable - it just is - what u pin to ur board is nothing more than the u that isn't u...

A reporter questioned Mother Theresa thusly . " Mother Theresa, when you pray what do you say to God.?" Mother Theresa replied, " I do not say anything, I listen" The Reporter " Well as you listen to God, what does he say to you ?", Mother Theresa, "He doesn't say anything, He listens"

Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, instead, seek what they sought. (Basho)

If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark. (St.John of the Cross)

When you are deluded and full of doubt, even a thousand books of scripture are not enough. When you have realized understanding, even one word is too much. (Fen-Yang)

The nature of God is a circle of which the center is everywhere and the circumference is nowhere (Empedocles)

Knock and he will open the door. Vanish, and he will make you shine like the sun. Fall and he will raise you to the heavens. Become nothing and he will turn you into everything.

If you die before you die, then when you die, you will not die, (Zen)

Strange times are these in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehoods school. And the one man that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool (Plato)

ernesto liquido

Subject: Re: 10 good ideas

From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 02:42:53 GMT

Greetings Bruce,

First, please be so kind as to turn off the HTML option of your email program before sending messages to the Community, as it makes messages messy and three times as long as they actually are. A waste of bandwidth. In personal communications with others who also have that option at the receiving end of the message, the messages look nice. But is not courteous to hog bandwidth or defile mail boxes with HTML code when space is at a premium.

Secondly, regardless of what is offered as seeming answers to your questions you seem to want to categorize them and in so doing they make no sense. It is not so difficult of consider offerings AS they ARE rather than considering them based on some personal Identity or authority. Regardless of where an offering is read or heard, if that offering evokes an Insight it matters little what or who evoked the Insight. Then not even the offering matters. What matters is the Insight. The seemingly universal importance on the *I* or the *who* is at the very foundation of the ills that humanity Suffers continually, in such forms as war and conflict and crime and corruption. Our intellectualizations and conceptualizations, as well as our sense of doership, only distort Truth/Reality because we *think* it is our very own to have and to hold.

When we Help someone or simply do what must be done for the sole reason that they needed the Help or that it must be done, and not for self-gratification/glorification or recognition that we personally did it, we can Understand True Compassion. When we glorify ourself we lose ourSelf. When we let go of ourself we Realize ourSelf.

When everyone's True Nature starts communicating, as *may the True Nature AS me Embrace the True Nature AS you as a True Nature of One*, then personality and identity wane.

Subject: Re: 3 good ideas

From: Cleau11@aol.com

Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:53:00 EDT

"Three Good Ideas" was forwarded to me. Thank you. It's just what I needed today!

Click Here To Continue.............

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