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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ October - Page 1 ~
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Subject: reality and ray
From: Sharlene <sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 09:02:58 -0700
Good morning everyone, You proposed: The first stumbling block is *your* reality, for Reality can not be possessed as *yours*. *Your* reality is but a contrivance of the Grand Trickster the conditioned mind, so *your* reality can be contrived any way you *desire* it to be.
**my reality is the rain doesn't stop. The mushrooms are rotting in the ground. There is already fresh snow on the tops of the mountains, and its a long hard walk between picking. weather wise it has been the wettest in years. My reality is that I am going to be a grandmother for the third time. My reality is gas prices are 79.9 per liter.
And as long as *your* reality is lived within the confines of your conditioned mind it can be "more peaceful, loving and happy and less fearful" -- in your mind.
** there is nothing peaceful and loving about reality. Reality just is. Reality is the cold hard facts about what is. Being blind to reality is where we live in euphoric pretended ness. . Reality is just what it is. There is or shouldn't be any emotion attached to reality. Emotions are attached to dreams, wishes and desires. We don't have to walk around in an emotional state just because reality can suck or because it happens to be doing what we want it to do at that moment. One deals with reality in the moment reality happens. That's all we can do. We can not control reality and we can't allow reality to control us.
Yet, when *your* reality tries to co-exist with Reality there is an obvious *tilt* of the pin-ball game we have been playing in your mind.
**There is no such as a happy realist. One who dwells and translates what reality is. They are cranky miserable people that do not live in peace but in discontentment, anger and fear. Those who are content in spite of what is, live with peace. Those who can enjoy the sunshine or a smile on a childs face during a period of confusion and hardship, live with peace. The sunshine or the smile, they are what's real, not the confusion.
But like all good intentions and Inner Urges, we Sleeping automatons manifest such inclinations outside ourself *thinking* that we are going to find ourself *out there*. We are not *out there* so why look *out there* ?
** I may not be able find myself out there, yet, it is out there we get in touch with ourselves. We can observe our reactions and responses to what is, then go within to find what is within. And I know what I mean, lol
So we spend our whole life looking for ourself where we are not, conditioned away from locating ourself because we do not want the Pain. So we avoid the Pain.
** The pain is embarrassment. We hate to see where and how we screwed ourselves up through our desires. We really have to remember that most of what we desire, wish and want, is our conditioning learned through others. Yet, we need to take responsibility for allowing it to continue. Every family is dysfunctional. There are no if's and's or but's. Every family is a walking talking glob of conditioned attitude. And we spread the conditioning through our offsprings. Its like the old commercial, you tell 2 friends, they tell 2 friends. We are both innocent and guilty of the crime. being aware of what we do and say, gets us out of that pain of living in duality and spreading that dual thinking to those we encounter.
It is always knocking at our door, but we are afraid to even crack the door to see who is knocking, for we know that once we open that door to the Cosmic Dance that we will never get it completely closed again. So we keep the door closed, even though the knocking just about drives us crazy. Only when the knocking does drive us to the edge of madness do we fling open the door wide...... and Dance.
** It's that simple and yet the hardest thing to do. Why do we insist on beating ourselves up so badly. Why do we live in guilt, fear and anger? because it's easier to blame things outside ourselves then it is taking responsibility. I go through Great periods of all of those. I know I am doing it and yet it takes a whack on the head to make me stop and get out of that mode of being. . I have great moments of fear because I don't know what the future holds for me. I live with moments of feeling like a failure because I haven't lived up to my own desires and those of others. I live with the reality that I literally have nothing left to lose. If one owns nothing, has nothing, one can not lose anything. So I have no fear of loss. I have nothing to burn down, nothing to get stolen, nothing for anyone to take away. I lived in the mode of having lots of stuff. I had a big house and ton's of stuff in it, and yet it was so not worth the powder to blow it hell. The life was not worth the style or the worry or the pain to endure the hanging on. I am a simple person, simple needs. warmth, food and a computer... and I can probably live without a computer, but who wants too? Yikes, controlled by a wish, want and desire.....ha It's so true. Maybe have to work on that one as well. But I probably won't. Aren't you amazed at what's becomes a necessity?
Though it is not funny, that is the way of the Sleeping -- to *believe* that something or someone can Save them from their Suffering.
** or those who don't want to be saved, like my brother. He is still dying the slow death. Drunk, sober and having the occasional seizure. He says he doesn't care if he dies, I just tell him to find a faster way.
It appears that you came across another of the False Prophets that Jesus mentioned who would come in his name and deceive people. Their are millions of them, one on every street corner.
** Thats funny, I think there is one in every family. We don't have to find them on the street corner. I gave my Father a book to read. It was called " Recovering From Rescuing" I had HOPED he would see himself and see what he was allowing, yet, he seen everyone else but himself. The blame is placed on everyone and he is the biggest offender. The words tuff love mean nothing.
So life continues. I am off to North Van in a week to help in the preparation of the baby. Rhonda has a slight curvature of the spine which has made this pregnancy a bit of a burden on her body so they have to be careful with her labour, they may decide to give her a "C" section instead. The curvature prevents her from having an epidural. The spelling machine doesn't know this word either. ha .
Enough blabbing, gotta do some work this morning and will hit the bush again this afternoon. See what there is to see, if anything. Never know till you try.
I hear Nakusp is hitting now, late, late late. Pemberton is wild this year. Hoping when I get to Van I can pick down there for a couple of days.
Talk later dear extended family. I love you all dearly,
Subject: Re: call it fear
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 19:28:14 +0200
From: "E.J." Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:33 AM Subject: Fwd: call it fear
> Subject: forward please. call it fear > From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:34:58 -0700
> With the talk of ID cards etc, we will surely lose the right to privacy and > the right to choose.
snipped from a very thoughtful post:
**** I don't understand why folks are fearing this, you show your drivers' license to any police officer who asks for it, you have to show your credentials to a bank to withdraw money and strange as it appears to me living in Europe, it is evidently possible to tap in someone's car registration and thereby to lift a persons whole life anyway, from type of car, to where you live, to which |Bank you owe your mortgage, so why this reaction to carrying a pass, to me there isn't any difference to showing that or your drivers license with everything on it :-/ a puzzled Womble.
Subject: Re: Contemplated
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 18:49:20 +0200
E.J. dear, I've just found my mind ;-)
in response to From: "E.J." Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 5:16 AM
> Greetings Wombat, you wrote: > ->> - now I am going to let you explain just exactly how it > ->came to be that we speak of a Grand feminine Trick ;-)? mmmm , Pray tell:)!
> "Feminine Trick" ? Where is your mind ? *** a small joke E.J. dear, nothing more than that.
> Yes, we can "wish" until the cows come home *** no, you make it reality by thinking it, so if you don't think it, it will not become reality.
but those wishes will not > prevent or even slow up the horrendous loss of life and liberty that is in > the works at home and abroad. Indeed hope for the best, but look for the > worst. Economies around the globe are being shaken to there foundation > and everyone is looking over their shoulder watching for attackers. *** yes and by thinking, reacting, you make it so. we *spread* what we think.
And > thus, sadly, seeking shelter/stability/security/safety in the arms of the > Grand Trickster. The Keynote is that when the child does not come to you > when you offer it honey and milk, cause it to Fear and feel > unstable/insecure and it will come running to you for protection. Have > the child trade you it's Life for it's life. *** what a terrible elder. But whom is running to whom precisely now? Speak and act life.
> The only Free person is an informed person. BE the gatherer you are > and gather information, and somewhere between the Right and the Left is > Truth. *** Truth is how each and every person perceives it to be, that is why truth is so elastic, methinks. Kindest regards,
Subject: Re: how long is a chinaman
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 19:20:13 +0200
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharlene" <sharlene@light-mission.org> To: "missionoflight-l" <missionoflight-l@light-mission.org> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: Re: how long is a chinaman
Dear Shar, a nut? .. but then a sensible and lovely nut :-) I follow you in your walks through the forrest, & smell the scent of the Autumn, (= Fall) as you walk. I don't know what to do with the sounds of a bear, I think I'd run, living in a country where there are none anymore :-(
Subject: Re: Contemplated
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 02:31:27 GMT
Greetings Wombat, you wrote: ->*** no, you make it reality by thinking it, so if you don't think it, it ->will not become reality.
The so called "reality" that is a product of your thinking is *your reality* and is not actually Reality. What-IS IS, yet what you think is is only what you think is is. It is only when you no long have any thinking to project into/onto What-IS, will you Understand Reality. Not all is what it seems. You can not make Reality, Reality IS what it IS AS it IS without our help. The reality you make, the reality that you contrive/think, is only the reality within the confines of your mind. You see, Reality IS Reality regardless of who Apperceives it. But *your reality* is all your's. It might even be share by other like *thinking* people {8->
->*** yes and by thinking, reacting, you make it so. we *spread* what we ->think.
Yes, misery likes company so we spread our defilements to others. We Talk *about* Love yet Hate, we Talk *about* Peace yet war, we Talk *about* Freedom yet Imprisoned, we Talk *about* Awareness yet Blind, we Talk *about* Reality yet live Dreams, we Talk *about* Truth yet live Lies, we toss Stones at passersby yet live in a Glass House, we Preach that we must do our own thing yet condemn others for doing their own thing. Everyone can not cling to differing beliefs and all of them be Right. Everyone can not cling to their own thinking of what Reality is and all those differing realities be Right. Is not the present situation in the world Lesson enough to See that none of these personal realities are Right ? Is not the present situation in the world Example enough to Realize that it is time to Wake-Up from our Dream realities ?
->*** what a terrible elder. But whom is running to whom precisely now? Speak ->and act life.
Most indeed, the Grand Trickster is the most heinous elder. The Fearful run to the Prison for protection, the Insecure cling to the Sinking Ship for stability.
->*** Truth is how each and every person perceives it to be, that is why truth ->is so elastic, methinks.
Only personal truth is flexible, as Truth will always BE Truth regardless of who thinks what. Opinions change, Truth is Chiseled in Stone. And Truth will never be found in a conditioned perception. Truth/Reality can only be Realized/Recognized in the Apperception of What-IS AS it IS.
->Kindest regards,
BE Well and Mindful Wonderful Friend, Shanti, Namaste, Metta, Zikr --
As Namaste is to say *may the Divine Essence AS me Embrace the Divine Essence AS you as a Divine Essence of One*, so too Metta is to say *may the Loving Kindness AS me Embrace the Loving Kindness AS you as a Loving Kindness of One*, so too Zikr is to say *may the Self-Remembering AS me Embrace the Self-Remembering AS you as a Self-Remembrance of One*. So *may the True Nature AS me Embrace the True Nature AS you as a True Nature of One*.
It is in the Inner Embracing of each other that we Realize that we are all cut from the same bolt of cloth, yet most do not Realize it YET.
AS Silence we Hear, AS Void we See, AS Awakening we ARE.
Subject: Re: call it fear
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 19:39:25 GMT
Greetings Puzzled Womble, you wrote: ->**** I don't understand why folks are fearing this, you show your drivers' ->license to any police officer who asks for it, you have to show your ->credentials to a bank to withdraw money and strange as it appears to me ->living in Europe, it is evidently possible to tap in someone's car ->registration and thereby to lift a persons whole life anyway, from type of ->car, to where you live, to which |Bank you owe your mortgage, so why this ->reaction to carrying a pass, to me there isn't any difference to showing ->that or your drivers license with everything on it :-/ ->a puzzled Womble.
Unlike any other card that is in use in the world, the National ID Card has a microchip embedded in it so that your whereabouts can be tracked. It is called *surveillance*. Regardless of whether one is up to no good or not, your private life is being spied upon. That is what people are not liking about the National ID Card. It is a privacy and civil liberty issue. The National Identification Card, as you said, is little more than what we are used to already, so is no big deal. It is when such cards make way for the infringement of privacy and civil liberty that people are taken back by, for that is one of the Causes that USA's war with England in the late 1700s was all about. Other than that, yes, it is just one more piece of plastic to carry around {8->
Subject: Ray and beliefs
From: Sharlene <sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 07:39:07 -0700
Ray offered: May I offer, that beliefs do not "hang on" -- WE "hang on" to them. Regardless of it's *mixture*, beliefs are the chains that keep us cobbled and shackled to the control and manipulation of the whims of the world at large. More aptly stated as the Causes of our Suffering by another.
**In reflection, I find that I do not have a belief system, yet do constantly say in conversation "I believe" or in my opinion, which is also the same thing. It's a habit and habits are conditioned. What I say I believe today, may not be what I believe tomorrow. Leaving my beliefs fickle, so don't believe my beliefs or my opinions. They come and go like day break. The only thing to know is that change is the only constant thing around us.
Awakening IS the Freedom from these conditioned contents of our memory and thinking and behavior. Is not *no beliefs* a conviction of no beliefs ?
* I believe it can be. If one defends a no belief system it can become just another system of belief. Anything can become a belief system depending on attitude, intent, and if we cling to an idea and make it ours. We can survive having no belief systems in place, we can be happy and content in a non belief system, and yet, the moment we claim it as such, we are stating a condition. Even if we think it and say nothing, we are clinging to an idea. Say nothing, think nothing,claim nothing, be nothing.
Why settle for a belief when we can just as easily Directly Experience ? To believe is to be in a state of *wishful thinking*. Reality is not in wishful thinking, but rather in the Direct Experience of Truth IN/AS the very instant present Moment -- Free of the delusion of wishful thinking.
** I am a wishful thinker. There are many thing that I wish for. I know I can't manifest what I wish for it is not within my power, and I do it anyway. Every day I go picking, I wish for the mother load, it never happens. I am happy with what I am given that day, and start the next day with the same wish. It's a game I play alone, it is a part of the pickers addiction. It's not the money that one keeps picking for, if it was, one wouldn't subject themselves to such climbing hell, such wear and tear on ones body. It is the rush you get when you find them. It is the tiredness at the end of the day. It is the connection you have when you are alone in the bush, the quietness, the sharing with others pickers. Pickers are a strange bunch. In town life one would never say hello to strangers, ask them how they are doing, and find out so much about their personal life, and yet, in passing in the forest, everyone has this connection to each other which seems to open an alley between you. There is a certain respect between pickers. Each one knows how much energy and work goes into each mushroom found. At the depots there are friendships formed for the season, that also end with the season. No one clings to anything but the thought of the next years picking. This is the time of the year, I get selfish and greedy of my time. I will do anything for anyone at any time of the year except this one. Mushroom season is mine. I claim these 2 months for myself. I am unavailable. Well except this year, I have to quit early to join in the birth of my latest grandbaby next month. So off to Vancouver one day next week.
A bird in hand is worth far more that even many in the bush.
* a shroom in the hand is worth far more than one in the bush.
Are we to wish our lives away clinging to beliefs, or Directly Experience Life for all it IS as it IS ? YOU, and you alone, hold the Keys to that Kingdom !
* The key to the kingdom is the direct experience. There is no doubt about it.
Nothing is to blame and nothing can be blamed. But WE are to blame if we allow such conditioned notions to control and manipulate our thinking and behavior.
** You know it's a funny thing, the direct experience of surviving through the perils of nature and diversity in any situation can be our best experience and learning. And yet, we so often avoid these situations because we envision hardships and pain. We avoid dealing with nature, we avoid mountain climbs, we fear animals, we fear the darkness, we fear aloneness. We avoid the so called dark sides of town in the concrete jungles. We fear reality of life. We stay in lighted streets, neon lights of downtown, lighted houses, with locks on our doors and call ourselves safe. We fear life as it is for many. We walk on the other sides of the streets when we see those who are less fortunate than we are. And yet, they are in that position from choice, in the same way as we choose what we do daily. We fear the wrong people, we should fear those in thousand dollar suits more than we fear those in rags. We should fear those who intents are greed and power over those who bum a dollar on the corner of the street. It is those who would do anything for another dollar including murder, we should fear, not those who dig in garbage cans to make 5 cents. We fear the wrong people and the wrong way of life. I would rather walk the forest with the grizzly then walk the streets with the political. At least you know you can't trust a grizzly. Blacks and browns are no problem unless you scare them .
Jesus said when he told his disciples to "heed the influences upon you, for they will imprison you". This is warning us to be mindful of our conditioned thinking and behavior, for it will control and manipulate us.
** This is what is happening right now in the States. Be aware of the manipulation taking place after the crash. Watch those in power use peoples fear against themselves. In the name of security. Listen to those words that build on peoples fears, listen to the bullshit and lies that come through God blessed mouths. Be aware of the straight faced human clones of power and greed. Listen to the kill or be killed strategy of words. Listen to the if you aren't againest terrorists then you are against the States mentality. using loyalty as a weapon. I have never heard such crap out anyones mouths before this, and they don't even blush from embarrassment. We are seeing wolves in sheep clothing, We are seeing the identical thing from both sides for the same reasons. Would this have been possible without killing off the Martin Luther Kings of the world? Aren't we just a tad questioning who really were behind all those assassinations or murders? We are such the blind people. We trust more in the dam flags then we do our own gut instincts.
It will be the dam thing over again and again. I have never heard such emotional, spiritual, and mental blackmail in my life, as I hear now. I watch on the news where women and children are saying goodbye to their husbands and fathers as they load the ships, planes etc. Hoping beyond hope for their safe return. Hoping they kill before they are killed. What stupid mentality is that? Each side saying it's in the name of freedom and God. Bush stands before you on the podium speaking with that dumb smile on his face, or smirk, it's like he is about to laugh at us for listening to him. He loves that power he has over the people. And we fall for it. I would like to know what he does to hide his horns and hoofs.
Do I sound angry? LOL More afraid of the results than angry. Afraid of losing my illusion of freedom to the watchful eye of big brother.
It's a sad day in the world when billions are spent on arms and rockets while the people starve to death on the streets and freeze in their homes.
Thats about it for now. Gone picking.
Subject: Re: call it fear
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 14:57:37 +0200
:-)))) ahhhhh, so when I say I want to pop in and have a look about in the zoo, I better make sure I am in the zoo where I said I would be oh ho .... I understand now, thank you dear E.J. Life can be so sweet .... so if I want to confuse someone, I leave the pass home and thereby prove a wonderful alibi ;-) ... only being naughty now:)
Subject: Re: National ID card From:
Sharlene <sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 18:44:27 -0700
At 08:32 PM 03/10/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Greetings, > >someone wrote... > >"Unlike any other card that is in use in the world, the >National ID Card has a microchip embedded in it so that >your whereabouts can be tracked." > >Someone should tell Nokia, Ericsson, and Motorola about >these national ID cards, so they could scotch-tape them >to their phones - because despite their hundreds of >satellites - and tens of thousands of communications >towers - they have yet to divise a way to geographically >pinpoint a cell phone user.
And yet if you use a GPS, it can reverse the signal into a tracker. So can a satellite phone. It is just those cell phones that are lacking. But then, why shouldn't they be? It still seems to me that there is no more privacy. They will come out with tracking devices on every vehicle as well as bikes no doubt. Maybe the upshot of the whole thing will be, no one is lost anymore, no one stays under the snow, no one can hide. Even the bad boys. And perhaps it will provide a few more jobs, this surveillance thing. Even the bad has a good side if you look long enough. All in all though, it all stinks, this paranoia.
Instead of finding communists under every tree, the governments find terrorists. Any excuse for a good fight. It has been said that when ever government has a scandal to hide, it invents a war. Are we informed? Na............
Anyway, I now have a new computer and wish everyone would send me their email addresses again. I lost everything I had so help me fill it up.. ha I found it hard to fill one gig on the old machine and this one comes preloaded over one already. Times sure change when you aren't paying attention. That's me, computer lazy I guess.
Love ya ll
Subject: Press Release-Interview with God
From: "Carl ross" <ross-dufferin@home.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 08:51:28 -0400
GOD ANGRILY CLARIFIES "DON'T KILL" RULE NEW YORK-Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the omniscient creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths for more than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against humans killing each other Monday.
"Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so for the record, here it is again," said the Lord, His divine face betraying visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin Towers. "Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that anybody ought to be able to understand."
Worshipped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike, God said His name has been invoked countless times over the centuries as a reason to kill in what He called "an unending cycle of violence."
"I don't care how holy somebody claims to be," God said. "If a person tells you it's My will that they kill someone, they're wrong. Got it? I don't care what religion you are, or who you think your enemy is, here it is one more time: No killing, in My name or anyone else's, ever again."
The press conference came as a surprise to humankind, as God rarely intervenes in earthly affairs. As a matter of longstanding policy, He has traditionally left the task of interpreting His message and divine will to clerics, rabbis, priests, imams, and Biblical scholars. Theologians and laymen alike have been given the task of pondering His ineffable mysteries, deciding for themselves what to do as a matter of faith. His decision to manifest on the material plane was motivated by the deep sense of shock, outrage, and sorrow He felt over the Sept. 11 violence carried out in His name, and over its dire potential ramifications around the globe.
"I tried to put it in the simplest possible terms for you people, so you'd get it straight, because I thought it was pretty important," said God, called Yahweh and Allah respectively in the Judaic and Muslim traditions. "I guess I figured I'd left no real room for confusion after putting it in a four-word sentence with one-syllable words, on the tablets I gave to Moses. How much more clear can I get?"
"But somehow, it all gets twisted around and, next thing you know, somebody's spouting off some nonsense about, 'God says I have to kill this guy, God wants me to kill that guy, it's God's will,'" God continued. "It's not God's will, all right? News flash: 'God's will' equals 'Don't murder people.'"
Worse yet, many of the worst violators claim that their actions are justified by passages in the Bible, Torah, and Qur'an.
"To be honest, there's some contradictory stuff in there, okay?" God said. "So I can see how it could be pretty misleading. I admit it-My bad. I did My best to inspire them, but a lot of imperfect human agents have misinterpreted My message over the millennia. Frankly, much of the material that got in there is dogmatic, doctrinal b.s. I turn My head for a second and, suddenly, all this stuff about homosexuality gets into Leviticus, and everybody thinks it's God's will to kill gays. It absolutely drives Me up the wall."
God praised the overwhelming majority of His Muslim followers as "wonderful, pious people," calling the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks rare exceptions.
"This whole medieval concept of the jihad, or holy war, had all but vanished from the Muslim world in, like, the 10th century, and with good reason," God said. "There's no such thing as a holy war, only unholy ones. The vast majority of Muslims in this world reject the murderous actions of these radical extremists, just like the vast majority of Christians in America are pissed off over those two bigots on The 700 Club."
Continued God, "Read the book: 'Allah is kind, Allah is beautiful, Allah is merciful.' It goes on and on that way, page after page. But, no, some jerks have to come along and revive this stupid holy-war crap just to further their own hateful agenda. So now, everybody thinks Muslims are all murderous barbarians. Thanks, Taliban: 1,000 years of pan-Islamic cultural progress down the drain."
God stressed that His remarks were not directed exclusively at Islamic extremists, but rather at anyone whose ideological zealotry overrides his or her ability to comprehend the core message of all world religions.
"I don't care what faith you are, everybody's been making this same mistake since the dawn of time," God said. "The Muslims massacre the Hindus, the Hindus massacre the Muslims. The Buddhists, everybody massacres the Buddhists. The Jews, don't even get me started on the hardline, right-wing, Meir Kahane-loving Israeli nationalists, man. And the Christians? You people believe in a Messiah who says, 'Turn the other cheek,' but you've been killing everybody you can get your hands on since the Crusades."
Growing increasingly wrathful, God continued: "Can't you people see? What are you, morons? There are a ton of different religious traditions out there, and different cultures worship Me in different ways. But the basic message is always the same: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Shintoism... every religious belief system under the sun, they all say you're supposed to love your neighbors, folks! It's not that hard a concept to grasp."
"Why would you think I'd want anything else? Humans don't need religion or God as an excuse to kill each other-you've been doing that without any help from Me since you were freaking apes!" God said. "The whole point of believing in God is to have a higher standard of behavior. How obvious can you get?"
"I'm talking to all of you, here!" continued God, His voice rising to a shout. "Do you hear Me? I don't want you to kill anybody. I'm against it, across the board. How many times do I have to say it? Don't kill each other anymore-ever! I'm serious!!!!!"
Upon completing His outburst, God fell silent, standing quietly at the podium for several moments. Then, witnesses reported, God's shoulders began to shake, and He wept.
Subject: Re: Contemplated
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 13:12:53 +0000
Greetings EJ,
you wrote...
"The so called 'reality' that is a product of your thinking is *your reality* and is not actually Reality. What-IS IS, yet what you think is is only what you think is is."
Well said.
A thought for folks to entertain...
If - during a meditative (or otherwise) state - you experience a blissful, tranquil state-of-mind, and the thought..."So THIS is reality!" pops into your head, you can be sure of ONE thing...
it ISN'T!
Why? Because what you are experiencing is your 'point- of-view' - and by definition - a 'judgement call'. And in the REAL 'reality' - there's no room for judgement! You can be sure of this - as soon as you attach a label to it - to 'reality' - it no longer 'IS'!
This may seem like hair-splitting, , but in he 'reality' of which EJ speaks - there's not even room for what people commonly refer to as the 'experience of reality'. Because you don't get to 'experience' reality - you merely get to realize it. - and that's a subtle yet IMPORTANT difference!
In the 'awakened state' - in THAT 'reality' - things merely 'are'. Your 'point-of-view' - even the potential to 'experience' - completely disappears. Why? Because the illusion of a 'you' has disappeared! - and the ability to 'experience' goes with it! There's just oneness. Hot/cold...good/evil...you/me...all judgements - poof!...all gone!
oren
Subject: Re: Contemplated
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 14:02:11 GMT
Greetings Oren, you wrote: ->This may seem like hair-splitting, , but in he 'reality' ->of which EJ speaks - there's not even room for what ->people commonly refer to as the 'experience of ->reality'. Because you don't get to 'experience' ->reality - you merely get to realize it. - and that's a ->subtle yet IMPORTANT difference! -> ->In the 'awakened state' - in THAT 'reality' - things ->merely 'are'. Your 'point-of-view' - even the potential ->to 'experience' - completely disappears. Why? Because ->the illusion of a 'you' has disappeared! - and the ->ability to 'experience' goes with it! There's just ->oneness. Hot/cold...good/evil...you/me...all ->judgements - poof!...all gone!
*Deep Bow* It seems that you have the jist of the matter. I would only add that understanding it is the easy part, as humans have become very capable mental creatures. The Key is BEing that understood Reality. Being adept mental creatures we always want to intellectualize/conceptualize everything, even our Awakening. Yet, as you stated, "poof!...all gone!". Knowing *about* Awakening/Reality and speaking *about* it is our mental forte, BEing that Awakening/Reality and speaking AS that state requires letting go of it's *knowing* (letting go of the Grand Trickster, the conditioned contents of our mind). And not only BEing that Awakening/Reality while alone and/or away from distractions, but rather BEing Awakening/Reality as a way of Life continually Living Awakening/Reality.
Thank you for your offering Dear Friend.
"An apperception of the basic meaning-lessness of conventional values, in terms of reality, lifts man out of the apparent strife and conflict of life. The only proof of absolute Truth is not in knowing it, because it cannot be known, but in BEing it." -- Ramesh Balsekar
Subject: Re: True Nature
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:49:55 GMT
Greetings Silent Community,
It has been asked: ->Your offerings suggests discovering our true nature . What is the difference ->between true nature and human nature? Whether my true nature will be ->different from another.
The so called "human nature", an over used catch-all term is nothing more than the human animal's natural instinctual tendencies toward survival. Having somewhat of an advanced mental capacity, it has the ability to survive that much better. These instinctual survival tendencies are quite universal in all manifested form from the mineral Kingdom to the human Kingdom. Nothing mystical or Divine about that. Humanity has an advantage in it's survival for it has Evolved/Involved a tool to better equip it for it's survival. The survival I speak of is the survival of the specie, the survival of humanity. And though it has used this added mental tool to better insure it's basic survival, it has also used this mental tool to control and manipulate and otherwise place in survitude others within the same human kingdom as well as all other so called lesser Kingdoms. This is all that the so called human nature is, though a term widely used to rationalize humanity's barbarism and general lack of Spirituality. Beyond instinctual survival it is not human nature, but rather a CONDITIONED nature (that humanity would rather rationalize as his human nature). So actually humanity has no clue as to his actual "human nature". In fact, conditioned not to.
True Nature, on the other hand, is the very Evolved/Involved Unconditioned Uncontrolled Un-manipulated Natural State of BEing. This is hidden due to humanity's conditioned state of thinking and behavior. And though there are slight variations due to situation, at this point in humanity's Evolution/Involution all human True Nature is the same. That is, your True Nature is the same True Nature as another. For True Nature IS True Nature, not possessed by anyone but rather IS everyone. It is the very Source of our BEing, your's as well as anyone else's, so it is obviously the same as anyone else's. There can BE only One. But it is not actually a "discovery" as such, but rather an Emptying of the conditioned contents of our thinking and behavior (let go of our conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sorts) so that we can Realize/Recognize that True Nature.
So our human nature is our tendency toward the survival of the human specie, all other tendencies are conditioned reactions and habits lending to the control and manipulation of our thinking and behavior. Our True Nature is our Source of BEing who/what we actually ARE without any conditionings. Odd thing about Realizing/Recognizing our True Nature is that all of a sudden personal (conditioned) truths and realities hold no value and thereby hold no control over our thinking and behavior. All of a sudden we see no differences in each other, that we are all just humans who should be working together for the common nature of survival as well as Peace and Freedom to continue our Unfolding Awakening. All of a sudden we are no longer Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or Muslims or whatever but rather humans in a Brotherhood of humanity. Because then we see that each and every one of us IS the same Source, the same True Nature. War and conflict and even disagreement are not our nature, such turmoil is due to our conditioned nature. As such turmoil is not present in True Nature. And True Nature can only be Realized/Recognized IN/AS this very instant anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment.
But one must BE one's True Nature to Truly Understand it, so all I can do is Point to where you yourself can hopefully Realize/Recognize it for yourself. And to BE your True Nature you have to let go of all conditioned notions that Veil your Realizing/Recognizing that True Nature. And I can not let them go for you, you must do that yourself.
Any comments ?
Re: True Nature
From: Victor Torrico <VTorrico@cfw.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:56:30 -0400
On Sun, Oct 07, 2001 at 03:49:55PM +0000, E.J. wrote: > Greetings Silent Community, > > It has been asked: > ->Your offerings suggests discovering our true nature . What is the difference > ->between true nature and human nature? Whether my true nature will be > ->different from another. > > The so called "human nature", an over used catch-all term is nothing > more than the human animal's natural instinctual tendencies toward > survival. Having somewhat of an advanced mental capacity, it has the > ability to survive that much better. These instinctual survival > tendencies are quite universal in all manifested form from the mineral > Kingdom to the human Kingdom. Nothing mystical or Divine about that. > Humanity has an advantage in it's survival for it has Evolved/Involved a > tool to better equip it for it's survival. The survival I speak of is the > survival of the specie, the survival of humanity. And though it has used > this added mental tool to better insure it's basic survival, it has also > used this mental tool to control and manipulate and otherwise place in > survitude others within the same human kingdom as well as all other so > called lesser Kingdoms. This is all that the so called human nature is, > though a term widely used to rationalize humanity's barbarism and general > lack of Spirituality. Beyond instinctual survival it is not human nature, > but rather a CONDITIONED nature (that humanity would rather rationalize as > his human nature). So actually humanity has no clue as to his actual > "human nature". In fact, conditioned not to. > > True Nature, on the other hand, is the very Evolved/Involved > Unconditioned Uncontrolled Un-manipulated Natural State of BEing. This is > hidden due to humanity's conditioned state of thinking and behavior. And > though there are slight variations due to situation, at this point in > humanity's Evolution/Involution all human True Nature is the same. That > is, your True Nature is the same True Nature as another. For True Nature > IS True Nature, not possessed by anyone but rather IS everyone. It is the > very Source of our BEing, your's as well as anyone else's, so it is > obviously the same as anyone else's. There can BE only One. But it is > not actually a "discovery" as such, but rather an Emptying of the > conditioned contents of our thinking and behavior (let go of our > conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sorts) so that > we can Realize/Recognize that True Nature. > > So our human nature is our tendency toward the survival of the human > specie, all other tendencies are conditioned reactions and habits lending > to the control and manipulation of our thinking and behavior. Our True > Nature is our Source of BEing who/what we actually ARE without any > conditionings. Odd thing about Realizing/Recognizing our True Nature is > that all of a sudden personal (conditioned) truths and realities hold no > value and thereby hold no control over our thinking and behavior. All of > a sudden we see no differences in each other, that we are all just humans > who should be working together for the common nature of survival as well as > Peace and Freedom to continue our Unfolding Awakening. All of a sudden we > are no longer Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or Muslims or whatever but > rather humans in a Brotherhood of humanity. Because then we see that each > and every one of us IS the same Source, the same True Nature. War and > conflict and even disagreement are not our nature, such turmoil is due to > our conditioned nature. As such turmoil is not present in True Nature. > And True Nature can only be Realized/Recognized IN/AS this very instant > anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. > > But one must BE one's True Nature to Truly Understand it, so all I can > do is Point to where you yourself can hopefully Realize/Recognize it for > yourself. And to BE your True Nature you have to let go of all > conditioned notions that Veil your Realizing/Recognizing that True Nature. > And I can not let them go for you, you must do that yourself. > > Any comments ? >
Have a look at the following:
This is one of the most beautiful pointers describing the actuality of that which is. Words can but point at "what is". It is taken from the book "The Supreme Source" translation by Adriano Clemente and commentary by Namkhai Norbu. It is taken from a translation of and commentary to a fundemantal Dzogchen (Great Perfection) tantra. Enjoy!
"Then in order to grant the possibility of keeping the mind in its natural condition, the supreme source taught this fundemental "lung" [oral teaching], the origin of the teachings beyond action.
Listen, Great Sattvavajra! Just like in space, the state of non-action cannot be localized. The path of Dharma of absence of thought, without abode or support, derives from a subtle desire tied to intention. However, such conceptual meditation does not at all touch dharmakaya because self-arising wisdom is the absence of thought naturally present in everything.
Thus self-arising wisdom is the true non-discursive state, the natural condition present in everything. It does not get attached to the notion of non-action as if it were an object, nor does it need antidotes in order to be corrected.
Even if one were to seek the fundemental essence through [the twelve links of] interdependence, the non-discursive state has no form, thus one accedes to it only by remaining without concepts. As the essence manifests naturally, only this can be dharmakaya.
It is beyond all the possible parts or divisions of the atom. From this non-conceptualizable state, the wisdom of qualities spontaneously arises: this is the essence of total openess in which the discursive state is directly present. Whoever enters this pure path achieves supreme equality.
As this state is unchanging and is not subject to transformation, there is no room for attachment. Likewise, as no object exists, there is no room for the mind. Those who get stuck in the desire for a concrete achievement always meditate on a cause, but the state of equality does not derive from the pleasure of attachment to such meditation.
As the single dimension [of pure and total consciousness] is all-pervading, there is nothing to add. As [self-arising wisdom] is without limits, there is nothing to take away from the ultimate dimension of phenomenon.
The manifestation of the ultimate nature does not give rise to any special exaltation: everything naturally abides in the state of total wisdom. There is no marvellous object to see: the [nature] cannot be seen or heard and transcends all definitions.
What is deemed "Dharma" and what is deemed "non-Dharma" are always joined: an absolute reality to be considered a higher dimension does not exist. Judging the path of enlightenment in terms of illusion and non-illusion one achieves nothing. Self-arising wisdom transcends the limits of words. In the condition of primordial expansion of the totality of one's state thoughts arise as if they were a shadow, It is not non-existent insofar as this non-existence has a core that manifests. It is not empty insofar as this emptiness has its own dimension. When one remembers the nature of the sky, even without wishing for it, one attains the happiness beyond action and already present from the beginning. It is not an object to conceptualize, but from [this condition] wisdom manifests. Some sages of the past, fixing their minds with attachment [to their object of meditation], have been caught up in the torments of effort and engagement. Omniscience arises only when one enters the path of the essence; when one conceptualizes the condition "as it is" meditation becomes conceptual.
Desiring bliss is the disease of attachment: unless one cures it with the efficacious medicine of unmovable equanimity, then even the causes of rebirths in the higher states gets stained by the passions.
The perilous disease of those who adopt as a path what is not a path, drives them to reach a goal, just like a deer pursuing a mirage. However they will never find their goal, not even by seeking it throughout the three worlds. In fact, even though in this way one might reach the level of one of the ten bhumis, the essence of enlightenment remains hindered.
Instantaneous wisdom beyond all thoughts is like a precious jewel that comes from all the teachers. It cannot be objectified and without needing to change, by its very nature, it completely satisfies all wishes. Examining it, one does not find anything, but leaving it as it is it is the source of all qualities. It does not appear visibly yet it displays itself in all the aspects of manifestation. Whoever is able to teach without the dualism of self and other is a precious treasure because he or she teaches selflessly and compassionately the universal object of realization.
It does not move from within, yet there is nothing to seek within. It is not an object to which to get attached or on which to fix ones's aspiration. In the state beyond entering and leaving there is no need to act [intentionally] for the benefit of beings through selflessness and compassion, everything takes place naturally.
Wishing for happiness, one moves away from it because happiness is already present, and seeking it is like happiness seeking itself. Not recognizing the essence of enlightenment, one aims for an outer object to confirm. However, following this direction one does not see enlightenment.
As in reality no "enlightenment" exists [as a separate phenomenon], nor does its name exist; displaying enlightenment and designating it with this name are errors. Hoping to achieve enlightenment from the outside is the wrong path. [In the true nature] no form, not even an atom, exists of all phenomena that appear. It is already perfect, beyond attainment, serene, immaterial, and not confined in a form: the nature of the great nectar cannot be grasped by concepts.
Immense, great, total existence, antidote for those who adhere to the lesser vehicles!
However one should not get stuck on the concept of "great" because [the nature] transcends the concepts of great and small. The words of the scriptures and their commentaries tied to concepts are like the drawings of a conjurer. The darkness of the wisdom of entering and leaving [does not] allow the birth [of true wisdom]. This is the supreme vehicle.
This nature, which leaves everything and holds everything, is beyond desire and grasping. It does not give birth to even a grain of complacency. Like a garuda in flight, it has no worries; it is not afraid of losing anything nor does it wish to accept anything.
That which from the beginning is like the ocean,, gives life to the variety of phenomena. Qualities are infinite as space and have no specific place whence they spring forth. As soon as [one understands] the essence of enlightenment, supreme contemplation manifests. Vision becomes like a vast sea, and the non-discursive state as immense as the sky. The sphere of experience of Samantabhadra is unborn and unchanging.
The twelve causal links [of interdependence] are explanations created for the benefit of the deluded: let the wise know this! Even though the six classes of beings appear, they are nothing but the primordial path! If enjoyments are anointed by compassion, in any object of pleasure one enjoys the essence of enlightenment. Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underpriveleged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.
All phenomena being such, this is the true nature of existence. Thinking that reality can seek itself, that the sky can seek itself, or that an "outer" reality can exist is as useless as attempting to put out fire with fire.
The essence of the non-discursive state is not hidden in anybody's mind. For those who experience the essence of enlightenment beyond action, it becomes naturally present in all circumstances."
Subject: Re: True Nature
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 02:06:54 +0200
From: "E.J." Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 5:49 PM Subject: Re: True Nature
> Greetings Silent Community, *** Greetings to you in return dear E.J., yes quiet indeed, that is because my life is rather unquiet at the moment, I tend to only read without writing then.
> It has been asked: > ->Your offerings suggests discovering our true nature . What is the difference > ->between true nature and human nature? Whether my true nature will be > ->different from another. *** mmmm, I think true nature is the *absoluteness* within, the deep pool of quiet that is never disturbed, the part that comes and goes through the different lives, the part that is sometimes called the higher self. Human nature is that, which is often present undernmeath a very thin layer of so-called civilisation and very little is necessary to bring out what we call the *worst* of human nature, mostly what we also term *animal qualities* However, I also think that we do animals injustice when we thus speak of them. I don't think animals do things with premeditated malice, they will kill for hunger/food, not to prove a point. These are conditioned notions I put before you :-)
> The so called "human nature", an over used catch-all term is nothing > more than the human animal's natural instinctual tendencies toward > survival. *** would it be a thought to think that *survival* is also a somewhat overrated word too:)? Isn't survival a word you apply when you are actually on the brink of either living or dying? Methinks, today it is applied out of ease, to create fear or to make people more succeptible to agreeing on what should not be agreed upon. (waging war on Afghanistan) I saw a documentary on the BBC. I was amzed to see that Kabul was already a shambles, hardly one stone left upon another, it was already a bombed site, what is there left to bomb then I wonder? What is "natural instinct", to destroy where there was already nothing left standing? In short I agree with the ample description of catch-all term !
Having somewhat of an advanced mental capacity, it has the > ability to survive that much better. These instinctual survival > tendencies are quite universal in all manifested form from the mineral > Kingdom to the human Kingdom. Nothing mystical or Divine about that. > Humanity has an advantage in it's survival for it has Evolved/Involved a > tool to better equip it for it's survival. The survival I speak of is the > survival of the specie, the survival of humanity. And though it has used > this added mental tool to better insure it's basic survival, it has also > used this mental tool to control and manipulate and otherwise place in > survitude others within the same human kingdom as well as all other so > called lesser Kingdoms. This is all that the so called human nature is, > though a term widely used to rationalize humanity's barbarism and general > lack of Spirituality. Beyond instinctual survival it is not human nature, > but rather a CONDITIONED nature (that humanity would rather rationalize as > his human nature). So actually humanity has no clue as to his actual > "human nature". In fact, conditioned not to. *** ........... *Profit* is also a *human instinct* Yes, it is sad that the actual human nature isn't recognised, I think it will take quite a few more lifetimes for we actually move forward. <sigh> I am one of them, I still eat meat, (albeit it much less than I used to, but that's just not good enough!) - so I am no less a murderer than another.
> True Nature, on the other hand, is the very Evolved/Involved > Unconditioned Uncontrolled Un-manipulated Natural State of BEing. This is > hidden due to humanity's conditioned state of thinking and behavior. And > though there are slight variations due to situation, at this point in > humanity's Evolution/Involution all human True Nature is the same. That > is, your True Nature is the same True Nature as another. For True Nature > IS True Nature, not possessed by anyone but rather IS everyone. *** Very, very, inescapably true dear E.J. why is this not more conspicuous I wonder?
It is the > very Source of our BEing, your's as well as anyone else's, so it is > obviously the same as anyone else's. There can BE only One. But it is > not actually a "discovery" as such, but rather an Emptying of the > conditioned contents of our thinking and behavior (let go of our > conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sorts) so that > we can Realize/Recognize that True Nature. *** ... :-))) .... oh happy day :-)
> So our human nature is our tendency toward the survival of the human > species, all other tendencies are conditioned reactions and habits lending > to the control and manipulation of our thinking and behavior. Our True > Nature is our Source of BEing who/what we actually ARE without any > conditionings. Odd thing about Realizing/Recognizing our True Nature is > that all of a sudden personal (conditioned) truths and realities hold no > value and thereby hold no control over our thinking and behavior. *** ah to be a hollow sounding drum, so empty as to comprehend and to absorb this one single truth:)
All of > a sudden we see no differences in each other, that we are all just humans > who should be working together for the common nature of survival as well as > Peace and Freedom to continue our Unfolding Awakening. All of a sudden we > are no longer Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or Muslims or whatever but > rather humans in a Brotherhood of humanity. Because then we see that each > and every one of us IS the same Source, the same True Nature. War and > conflict and even disagreement are not our nature, such turmoil is due to > our conditioned nature. As such turmoil is not present in True Nature. > And True Nature can only be Realized/Recognized IN/AS this very instant > anew Eternal Infinite Present Moment. **** odd that something that is not our nature, keeps creeping in though, really demeaning us.
> But one must BE one's True Nature to Truly Understand it, so all I can > do is Point to where you yourself can hopefully Realize/Recognize it for > yourself. And to BE your True Nature you have to let go of all > conditioned notions that Veil your Realizing/Recognizing that True Nature. > And I can not let them go for you, you must do that yourself.
> Any comments ? *** yes, I think we should sign you up to a great many ng's and let others read you too, I think that would definitely speed up the process ;-) ... but until the day that more and more people recognise these simple truths, patience and Prayer and quiet will have to suffice. More love in the world is starting with oneself, like myself. a deep bow for your offering dear E.J. Wombat:)
Subject: Re: True Nature
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 04:12:58 GMT
Greetings Wombat, you wrote: ->*** mmmm, However, I also think that we do animals injustice when we thus ->speak of them. I don't think animals do things with premeditated malice, ->they will kill for hunger/food, not to prove a point. These are conditioned ->notions I put before you :-)
So True. A Friend, frog, has expressed disgruntlement and insulted when we call ourselves "human animals". Most regret the prospects of evolving to the human kingdom if the likes of us is all they have to look forward to. In fact, many have expressed delight that they will not have to worry about evolving to the human kingdom in this Manvantara (Life Cycle). We have shown what might be termed "bad examples" for those who follow in our evolutionary footsteps. It is hoped that they Learn from our Errors so they will not have to be looked upon with scorn by the so called lower kingdoms when they Enter the human kingdom in the next Manvantara.
->*** would it be a thought to think
It would indeed be a "thought", to "think" {8->
->that *survival* is also a somewhat ->overrated word too:)? Isn't survival a word you apply when you are actually ->on the brink of either living or dying? Methinks, today it is applied out of ->ease, to create fear or to make people more succeptible to agreeing on what ->should not be agreed upon. In short I agree with the ample description ->of catch-all term !
Yes, these days, the word "survival" can mean just about anything anyone wants it to mean. My reference to survival was the basic inherent drive to continue existence as manifested form, which is the *human nature*. Beyond that, survival can take any conditioned shape one wants to give it. But when people speak of some Divine Providence and call it their human nature they are in error, revealing that they know nothing of Divinity or Providence or human nature or True Nature. They are conditioned to *think* they do.
->*** ........... *Profit* is also a *human instinct* Yes, it is sad that the ->actual human nature isn't recognised, I think it will take quite a few more ->lifetimes for we actually move forward.
No Dear Friend, "profit" is a conditioned greed instinct. Nothing human about it, other than the Fact that humans are the only ones who seem to be overly concerned about it. They are conditioned to *think* more of taking from others to profit themselves than Helping others with their good fortune.
-><sigh> I am one of them, I still eat meat, (albeit it much less than I used ->to, but that's just not good enough!) - so I am no less a murderer than ->another.
There is more to it than "murder" Dear Friend, it is laziness and ignorance and greed. We started eating meat because there was nothing else to eat, our basic drive for survival. But after much time, as we were able to go back to our natural diet, we had grown lazy for the meat source was more easily accessible than planting and harvesting and preparing and preserving and/or gathering and the like. So we were not told by the Elders who Knew what our natural diet was. And we could profit by capitalizing on another's laziness by hording the meat source and bartering it. Much big business is in meat production around the world.
->*** ... :-))) .... oh happy day :-)
Which is every day..... Awakening.
->*** ah to be a hollow sounding drum, so empty as to comprehend and to absorb ->this one single truth:)
When the cup is Empty, it IS Full.
->**** odd that something that is not our nature, keeps creeping in though, ->really demeaning us.
It is called *conditionings*. As long as the cup is full, it can not BE Empty.
BE Well and Mindful Wonderful Friend, Shanti, Namaste, Metta, Zikr --
As Namaste is to say *may the Divine Essence AS me Embrace the Divine Essence AS you as a Divine Essence of One*, so too Metta is to say *may the Loving Kindness AS me Embrace the Loving Kindness AS you as a Loving Kindness of One*, so too Zikr is to say *may the Self-Remembering AS me Embrace the Self-Remembering AS you as a Self-Remembrance of One*. So *may the True Nature AS me Embrace the True Nature AS you as a True Nature of One*.
It is in the Inner Embracing of each other that we Realize that we are all cut from the same bolt of cloth, yet most do not Realize it YET.
AS Silence we Hear, AS Void we See, AS Awakening we ARE.
Subject: Re: Dam
From: Sharlene <sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 22:47:17 -0700
Hi Wombat, and everyone,
>*** :) wet yuh undies then ;-)?
LoL, funny.
>understandable reactions, but a waste of >your energies dear Shar, your anger will only feed it,
Yes, true, and yet those feelings pass through from time to time. I just go out and smell pine mushrooms instead.
>*** indeed Shar. i have American friends, i was outspoken, i am afraid i >have offended them.
That's the chance we take on a daily basis talking to those who are involved more than we are.
>they/we would be better off, taking care of the aged, the homeless, by >providing better medical care for the less fortunate in our societies, >instead of handing out food and blankets in the streets during winter, make >it so, that all homeless have a home to go to instead,
The only time these issues are spoken of is when there is an up and coming election and they need the votes. Then we hear false promises and tons of bull. We could feed a country on the food we could grow with that manure.
>that they are fed. it >always frustrates and amazes me, why billions upon billions can always be >found for starshields, for trips to the moon, what was gained from that >exactly? -
I'm not sure what was gained either, but maybe someone else can explain it for us.
>much good is done when natural catastrophies occur, wherever in >the world, but i can't get myself any further along this path, when i see >bombs, guns, tanks, planes, destroyers and whatever that could feed whole >cities for years maybe.
It's not that we need to feed these people but the education in helping them help themselves. One young boy raised the money to dig one well, think of the possibilities we could do if we put our minds to it. This kid was listening to the news and came up with the idea himself. He asked his folks to start him out with 75 dollars for investment and startup money for his campaign. They did and he raised enough for one well. Now he is going for one more and one more after that. Does it take the young and innocent to think of these things?
>why not invest the money in making bangladesh safe >by building the much needed dams and dykes there. if hunger and education, >were properly addressed, if all shared in the wealth we have, we wouldn't >have wars <sigh> handing soap box !
We don't do those things. There is no return in it or it would be done. We are fighting this war right now, only for the oil. There is no other reason that is good enough. The access to the oil fields and capital gains by the rich.
>*** the poor are poor (still) because there are so many who sucker them into >things, like banks and a lack of understanding finances, who by virtue of >the lack of funds, can only look to short term solutions instead of long >term planning.
Lack of education again. Wages are dropping in every field. The starting wages are aprox 750 per hour. jobs that used to pay 15 per are all dropping back to around 8 per hour. That is starvation wages. People can't afford rent let alone food on that. The rents don't drop and house prices don't drop. Just the wages. There is no balance anymore. Bankruptcies are up in hundreds of companies now, not just three or four per town anymore. We are in a downward spiral and it can only get worse.
> more often than not, if you start out poor, there are still >too many who can't see the fine mind behind the shirt or dress with a tear >in it. Numerous nouveau riche, appear after a war. new inventions too, but >what is gaining and what is loss?
What and who will really benefit from this war? Makes no sense.
>*** worse, how is it possible that so many swallow the tv broadcasts for >truth and act accordingly!
We all know the answer to that one. ZZZZZZZzzzzzzz
> > *** you babble very well dear Shar!
You do a fine job yourself. Thanks
>*** I enjoyed your thoughts and babbling - Wombat:)
I enjoy the exchange with you always. I need to re add you to my ICQ now but don't have your number.
Talk later
Subject: Re: True Nature
From: Sharlene <sharlene@Light-Mission.org>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 23:05:58 -0700
> > >-><sigh> I am one of them, I still eat meat, (albeit it much less than I used >->to, but that's just not good enough!) - so I am no less a murderer than >->another. > > There is more to it than "murder" Dear Friend, it is laziness and >ignorance and greed. We started eating meat because there was nothing >else to eat, our basic drive for survival. But after much time, as we >were able to go back to our natural diet, we had grown lazy for the meat >source was more easily accessible than planting and harvesting and >preparing and preserving and/or gathering and the like.
Then there are some of us that can not eat grains,nuts or soya products so meat,fish and poultry is our only source of protein. It has nothing to do with morals, guilt or innocence, it is a matter of necessity nothing more. If one becomes vegan for any other reason than it suits their bodies best, then it is or becomes a belief system. It isn't spiritual or non spiritual to eat vegies and grains instead of meat. Anything that has a reason is a thought or an idea, or a belief. One just does what one must do to make their body work at it's best.
I am off to Van tomorrow, so won't have internet access for a couple of days. Rhonda is having a bit of a problem with her pregnancy right now and bed rest is the order of the day. So will reply or whatever when I get on line down there.
Best to all
Subject: Re: True Nature
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 07:09:08 GMT
Greetings Sharlene, you wrote: ->Then there are some of us that can not eat grains,nuts or soya products so ->meat,fish and poultry is our only source of protein. It has nothing to do ->with morals, guilt or innocence, it is a matter of necessity nothing more. ->If one becomes vegan for any other reason than it suits their bodies best, ->then it is or becomes a belief system. It isn't spiritual or non spiritual ->to eat vegies and grains instead of meat. Anything that has a reason is a ->thought or an idea, or a belief. One just does what one must do to make ->their body work at it's best.
*Deep Bow* First, True, due to the additives and preservatives and imitation flavors and colors that our food has contained for many many years, some have developed certain anomalies in our natural system. The body is a Wonderful piece of work, it adapts to conditions, to survive, and so some wind up not being able to go back to their natural diet even if they wanted to. All in the name of "profit", greed. Also, True, it is not actually a so called *Spiritual Factor* any more than it is a moral one, though many like to profess it is. Fact is that the energy of the body (through the Chakras) flows more naturally without the animal elements sustaining the body. Many people change to a vegetarian diet for many reasons, but True, if their reasons are anything other than the *Natural Order Of Things* they are fooling themselves. And unless the body has developed adversities to it's natural diet due to mass production of foods, if people think that humans are carnivores they are also fooling themselves. The Real factor should be what is best for the system and what you actually want of the system. Not the conditioned factor, but the Real factor.
Thank you for bringing up this other factor about meat eating.
Subject: Re: True Nature
From: "Wombat" <labl@zeelandnet.nl>
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:36:12 +0200
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharlene" <sharlene@light-mission.org> To: "missionoflight-l" <missionoflight-l@light-mission.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 8:05 AM Subject: Re: True Nature
Dear Shar, short, coz your time is short .... if Rhonda has hit a bump in her pregnancy, and you think she might need some (energy) help, & if with her *express* permission, I would happily send reiki her way to ease her situation - Be well .... Love to you and yours Wombat.
Subject: the wolf, how does it get the buffalo
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@netidea.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:44:11 -0700
missionoflighters,
to Be or not to Be - as if we have a choice...
by not Being, Being is Us becuz Being is Non-Other than Being... by negation we Are... purely & simply we Is & Are - like water, like air, like the skin we wear for the Mailing - & we will all get Mailed - at one time or an Other, we will get Mailed - becuz when we were born our Postage was Paid by the Mailore... by the Konscious Suffering of those who went before us... (kan u hear me norman?)...
whether we choose to be Aware of that Being which we Are is up to Us - like Toys-R-Us, tho we be more than Toys, i wud hope we merely Kruise thru Town without filing through the check out counter to Declair & Pay for who we Are - in Absentia - becuz we kan never Be in Absentia - we kan only Dream or be Vakant - note the small b in the Be - becuz to Be is to to Be & to Be is to be every Thing that Isn't... are u ready for this - Being Is... purely & simply - all else is the harvest of Wastrels... a gemini dude with the toss of the Koine as his centre... like Hamlet: to be or not to be - by asking that question the man already Is though he knows it knot... a gemini, an aquarian, a wombat or a noose...
shar does her posts in the morning over coffee; i do mine at knight over tea... though they're opposites, we still share the proximity to Sleep, n'est-ce pas, shardananda... we both of us are canucks tho we may be ten life times removed from the Afghanese we were when we entered Beinghood... i salute u, as i salute all the other ashmoles on this list... salut!!! missionof liters - u may be dearer to me than u know - stay kool, mes amis & if u kan, stay klear...
fond regards,
Subject: Re: the wolf, how does it get the buffalo
From: ejLight@Light-Mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 02:34:48 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->to Be or not to Be - as if we have a choice... -> ->by not Being, Being is Us becuz Being is Non-Other than Being...
Be is indeed Be, as BE is BE. And Being is indeed Being, as BEing is BEing. YET, Be is not BE and Being is not BEing. To Realize/Recognize the difference is the Key.
->whether we choose to be Aware of that Being which we Are is up to Us
There is no real choice Dear Friend, either one is Ready or one is not. Sleeping, Blinded by our conditioned notions, we make many choices yet whatever choice we make it always leads us to Hell. Awakening, not making any choices because we Realize/Recognize that we do not have any, we continue to Dwell IN/AS What-IS and so never make it to Hell. Is this a Coincidence ? Or a correlation ?
-> becuz we kan never Be in Absentia - we kan only Dream or be Vakant
It is all a state of mind. Sleeping, we are always Vacant from the Present in our mind. Awakening, we ARE the Present with quite an Empty mind. Another Coincidence ? Or a correlation ?
- note the small b in the Be - becuz to Be is to to Be & to Be is ->to be every Thing that Isn't...
Au contraire Dear Friend, when one IS What-IS, BEing What-IS, one IS All that IS What-IS and IS Nothing (No-Thing).
->are u ready for this - Being Is...
BEing IS BEing.
-> purely ->& simply - all else is the harvest of Wastrels...
*Deep Bow*
->- u may be ->dearer to me than u know - stay kool, mes amis & if u kan, stay klear...
*Arc Profond* SOYEZ ami bon et conscient cher {8->
º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º
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