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Welcome ye Grand Subscribers and Seekers of Truth and Inner Awareness.
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~ July - Page 1 ~
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Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 04:53:21 GMT
Greetings Ye of Truth and Understanding,
With such blatant *handwriting on the wall* I wonder how such obvious signs are not seen. It all boils down to the fact that our conditioned thinking affixes us with blinders so we will not notice the signs. We are controllers of the Universe, Gods in our own right, we can not admit that we have been wrong all these centuries -- even if it kills us. Which it is doing. We CAN Save the world -- one person at a time -- starting with ourself.
Subject: Re: The way of simplicity
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 05:57:34 GMT
Greetings Community,
One has queried: ->So how do we live in an incredibly complex world and ->remain innocent and simple? Complex question, eh??????
Indeed the Cosmos, thus every aspect of it (such as the every day world), is most complex. That Fact can not be changed any more than the varying complexity of the world could be or should be changed. True Simplicity is not in rearranging or reconstructing the complex to be simple, but rather in Realizing/Recognizing the simplicity of the complexity. Just taking the human body is a good example of complexity, which is the nature of evolution from a simple organism to a complex one. So the innocence and simplicity that most realize is getting more and more important is in the Way we perceive that complexity. If we perceive it as complex, thus annalize/intellectualize/conceptualize and otherwise Dualistically Separate it into a zillion pieces, we associate/relate/become that complexity. "As a man thinketh, so is he". So it is a *simple* matter of perception. A perception (Apperception) Realizing/Recognizing the continuous Single Flow of all this complexity. AS the Present Moment All is One, the Perceiver BEing the Perceived. A Dance of All that IS AS it IS, the Dancer BEing the Dance. When there is no Separation there is no complexity, there is only One, there is only Unit-y, there is only the Present Moment. Oddly, this Oneness is actually Nothingness (No-Thingness). Nothing (No-Thing) is thus even Simpler than One. And you can not get much simpler than '0'.
So, Simply, the more conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all sort (our complex state of mind) we let go of the Simpler All IS Realized/Recognized. Thus the question is not complex, but rather letting go of the conditionings is most Arduous/Painful/Complex because they are so ingrained/intertwined to the very core of our being. "Rotten to the Core", so has been said. So perhaps all the conditionings are a lot of rot. Purge the mental system of all of the toxins. Detox the mind. Simple {8->
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of Society. If we're looking for the causes of our troubles, we should't test people for drugs; we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power." -- P.J. O'Rourke
*Deep Bow* P.J.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 04:46:36 GMT
Greetings Ye Community,
We are left with our meager self. Stripped of our *possessions* and desires. Naked without penney or pot to cook in. Alone. FREE, to stand in awe, with lower jaw dropped, letting in flies, at the Wonders of What-IS. And the True Understanding that it IS What-IS. Not a Reward that we can take to the bank, but rather the weightless feeling that the heavy burden of carrying around the Grand Trickster has been cast off. An exhilaration unsurpassed by any other experience. Nothing is *found* for there is nothing to find. Rather, it can only be Directly Experienced.
Subject: RE: Just Wondering.....
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 06:42:27 -0500
It makes sense the response of Jesus to the question of where and when is heaven. His answer was that heaven is at hand. It is within each of us. It is everywhere on the planet. You shouldn't be able to miss it.
Subject: RE: A Ray Of Light
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 06:49:15 -0500
Actually we notice too many signs. You can't drive through the city without reading signs. It is a very difficult to purposefully try to ignore the signs. Signs for restaurants, for stores, or events. Signs for things that you just have to purchase. Signs for parts of the culture that you have to accept. The signs tell us when to stop, when to go, when to turn. The signs tell us where to eat, where to smoke, where to poop.
I wonder if I ever went to a foreign country Where I could not read any of the signs, No clue as to how to pronounce the words, If the noise of signs would be gone from my head And I could at last experience reality as it is Without all of the signs telling me how I should experience it.
Subject: Re: A Ray Of Light
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 13:42:07 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->If the noise of signs would be gone from my head ->And I could at last experience reality as it is ->Without all of the signs telling me how I should experience it.
Indeed, there are signs and there are Signs, mostly the conditioned programmed signs that control/manipulate/confuse. When attuned to the Grand Trickster's signs it is confusion in the complexity of all the signs. When not so attuned the bigger overall picture emerges as a Sign of the Flow of what actually IS. So attune not to the complexity, just Witness, just Observe, just BE. So it is a matter of perception or Apperception. A matter of associating/attaching ourself with/to the complexity of all the signs or Witnessing/Observing the folly of them. The signless Sign only takes Waking-Up, only takes BEing signless, BEing the Sign. "Here's your Sign".
Subject: control
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 08:04:51 -0700
It appears that once again, I have been made aware of my control issues through the loss of them. With this sexual assault experience, I have learned my anger is based on the fear of a loss of control. I THINK ---that at this moment in my life, my body was the only thing I had any sense of control over. This experience has shown me that even that thought of control has been an illusion. So that leaves me knowing that I have no control over anything. The anger that arises with such an experience, is based wholly within that sense of loss. In further reflection and through conversation, I really wonder if all of us, in one way or another, still have control issues and experience that fear when things don't go our way. The thing is, when you are faced with another whom is bigger, stronger, and knowing that whatever happens is out of your control, the fear hits you in the face. It doesn't have to be a so called big event like 9-11, it can be just the smallest thing, like a falling twig in which we duck out of the way, or bird droppings on your clean shirt. We get angry. Or if we spill coffee on our selves or a clean floor, right away the thought is, dam, I just cleaned the floor. Or we wash the car, just before it rains. Or a bug landing on freshly painted walls. The response or reaction is always dam!. So the question is, is there any possibility of really letting go of control issues unless we see them as control issues. Is it possible to allow what is to be what is in every area of our life at all times?
When ever I say "never", never happens. Its like I set myself up to be proven wrong. I said to myself years ago, that I would never say never again, and yet, I know now I missed a few areas that would never happen. yikes :)
A new mantra- I have no control, control is an illusion. Shar
Subject: RE: control
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 12:34:01 -0500
What you can control is your response, your heart, your will, your clinging. I was reading the words of the Buddha last night. He said that the unenlightened suffer two times when assaulted, once with the pain of the body, and then with the pain of going over it again and again in the mind. The enlightened suffer only one time when assaulted, only with the pain of the body, with a detached mind the experience is released.
I realize over and over that the real suffering is not the stuff out there that gets to us to harm us but it is rather the thinking about it that gets to us.
It is like the example that Jesus gave. If someone strikes you, you feel the pain, there is no stopping that. But if you strike back, you feel more pain--you have lost control, you are reacting out of anger and revenge. If you turn the other cheek, while it may appear that you are weak and don't have control, you are actually being more in control. You actually stop yourself from suffering because you detach your automated reaction from striking back.
Help? Hurt? Peace.
Subject: Re: control
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 03:01:06 GMT
Greetings Tom, you wrote: ->What you can control is your response, your heart, your will, your clinging.
Well..... Sharnanda was closer to the mark Dear Friend, "control is an Illusion". Not only is it a conditioned notion that is an Illusion, it Causes as much stress as a conditioned reaction of losing control or not having any. Why even bother with either notion ? AS the Moment, we simply do what must be done and go on about our business. As you indicated that your readings Pointed out, it is the clinging to the past Moment and the clinging to the lack of control that Moment and the clinging to having control that Moment that is Pain and keeps us a step behind the Present Moment. It WAS Real THEN but is NOT Real NOW, so it is conditioned Folly to think that WAS is as Real as NOW. It is in the controlling and/or the lack of control and/or the seeming loss of control that is Suffering. All happens as it happens, and we must respond to that happening THEN and THERE and go on to the next happening, not dragging the happening THEN into what is happening NOW. Leave the work problems at work and the home problems at home, and BE Whatever-IS the Present Moment. When there are conditioned notions, then we have to try to control them. When there are no conditioned notions, then there is nothing to try to control. Kind of Simple {8-> When one does not have a frog, one does not worry about whether it has legs or not.
->I was reading the words of the Buddha last night.
Psssst..... I have been told that if you make the book your pillow that the Wisdom will seep into the mind. My experiments bore out that BEing MindLess that there is NowWhere for anything to seep into, so obviously a lost cause in my case.
->I realize over and over that the real suffering is not the stuff out there ->that gets to us to harm us but it is rather the thinking about it that gets ->to us.
*Deep Bow* So why think about it ? If one knows he is holding a Stick, why keep Whacking oneself with it ?
->It is like the example that Jesus gave. If someone strikes you, you feel ->the pain, there is no stopping that. But if you strike back, you feel more ->pain--you have lost control, you are reacting out of anger and revenge. If ->you turn the other cheek, while it may appear that you are weak and don't ->have control, you are actually being more in control. You actually stop ->yourself from suffering because you detach your automated reaction from ->striking back.
But what if you had no control in the first place to lose ? The whole foundation of "Primal Therapy" is releasing frustrations in other ways other than reaction to situations. It has been shown that when we stop ourself from reacting in some way that a stress/tension builds and Causes Suffering in many aspect of our life, thus "Primal Therapy" to release that stress/tension. The "Primal Therapy" thing works, but the Fact remains that whenever we prevent a reaction based on conditioned notions that there will be this certain stress/tension that we are going to have to vent somewhere/somehow. Again, why bother with the Folly of stopping ourselves and/or venting later when all one has to do is let go of the conditionings that Cause us to *react* in the first place. If there are no Causes there will be no reason to react/vent/Suffer. Why complicate that which is Simple ? Why attack the Suffering when Siddhartha always said to attack the Causes ?
As long as we harbor those conditionings the more we have to compensate for them. And the more we have to rationalize harboring them. Seems to be quite the Fool's Game, that has not worked in all the millennia that it has been Played.
Seems that P.J. O'Rourke was onto something {8->
Subject: change is perennial
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 00:28:10 -0700
"It WAS Real THEN but is NOT Real NOW, so it is conditioned Folly to think that WAS is as Real as NOW."
u sed this, ray, in a response to mr parks, but i wonder sumtimes, ray, if the THEN & NOW are 'knot' konnekted in sum 'mysterious ways'...
is it possible for THEN & NOW& LATER to be a 'kontinuem'?
kan this BE where the Moment IS?
in THENNOWANDLATER
or more specifikally, at:THIS VERY MOMENT IN WHICH U ARE...
at:TENSION!!!
becuz to me, the moment in which i am is also the moment of the thennowand later...
what am i missing here?
the wing the of gulls konnekting the sea & the aire?
or the diskovery of the ZERO...
what is the MOMENT but the O from which both M's move...
i give my self a 'bow' for that but also a 'whack' for identifying with bukowski & waits...
& speaking of weights - the MOMENT is PRESENCE & ABSENCE KOMBINDED
like kites in the wind it's the string that makes u the master...
Subject: Re: control
From: Sharlene@light-mission.org
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 10:42:52 -0800
More thoughts on control
Working with the conditioned notions of control and lack of control has become a another spin around the mulberry bush.
Even if we do things without giving them thought, doing what we do within the moment without thought to the next moment or the last moment, in some underlaying way, is it not control or wiring that we follow?
I am thinking of the million little things we do, or say, without thought. We eat certain foods as to think we can control the aging of the body, or how the body reacts to certain foods. It is all under the heading of control.
How many things do we do that we are not in control over? Can we control the bladder? Only for so long, and the bladder wins. We can't control the urge to smoke or drink, but we can control the hands that reach for either. Or can we? When we think about it, even the illusion of that type of control is just doing what we do within the moment, under the notion of choices.
We have control issues, or illusions of control. I thought I could control, by saying no to another, whom could touch me and who couldn't. Ha ! What an illusion that was. If it wasn't an illusion, there would be no such thing as assault, rape, abuse,murder, or accidents. These are some of the things that are a part of what is. call it fate, call it karma, call it whatever you wish, it is all apart of the illusion.
Everything is a part of the drama we call life and all we can do, is play the part of another role called acceptance of what is. It is neither turning the other cheek, nor is it a matter of letting it go, it is doing what we do within the moment. Whatever it is that we do within the moment that is.
The Buddha's words of suffering twice, or thrice in the memory, is right. We do not have to dwell on the memory of what was, but we have to deal with the what we feel about that experience, in the moment that we feel it.
It's all apart of the process of working with conditions or emotions caused by those conditions. It's a grieving process, so to speak. We grieve for the loss of the illusion that we have control.
We can accept the fact that we have no control about many things. We can go along with what is just fine, until we experience another experience to prove that we harbor more conditions. Another layer of that seemingly big onion or the many thin layers of a small onion. As with a tree, some layers are big in a good growth year, and some are small and tight together during a drought. To find the core, there is much peeling to be done.
Each reaction and response, is just another layer to be uncovered. And if you notice, when you un layer an onion, there is a very thin veil that connects and separates each layer from the next. This thin veil is what could be called either rose coloured glasses, blindness, or denial that another layer exists. It is the protective layer like the sac of an embryo.
Each one of us is an onion. Do the layers get sweeter as we near the core? No, each layer is just as pungent and just as oniony as the first. Sometimes as we peel away one layer, the thin protective coat of the next is peeled away with it, exposing the layer underneath. This is when we experience that "does it ever end thinking" Getting exposed with every word, every action, every reaction. Peeling that onion brings tears to our eyes, uncontrolled tears of relief when the weight of the layers are peeled away. There are many theories on how to cut an onion without the tears and yet, none of them work all that well. There is always some tears or some response.
Just think, before we even see the white of the onion, there are seven layers of crisp dark skin to be taken off first. Is it any wonder that the illusive enlightenment or awakening never seems to appear? And when we peel away the last layer, there is nothing left to know or see.
I dunno Todays ramble.
Subject: Re: control
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 19:42:01 GMT
Greetings Sharnanda, you wrote: ->And when we peel away the last layer, ->there is nothing left to know or see.
*Deep Bow* Indeed when that last shard of conditioning is peeled away there is Nothing. Just Nothing. No Enlightenment, no Awakening, just Nothing. Pure Nothing. Pure BEing. Pure True Nature. One simply IS. With no perspective, no perception, no belief, no opinion, no separation, just Nothing, just BEing, just ARE, just True Nature. Such Fullness of such Emptiness IS Bliss. THEN Everything, every anew Present Moment IS most Eternal/Infinite as the Moment never ends for it never began. The Moment always IS, and is emanated into every aspect of our Life and in everything we do or say or even think. Makes for a Peaceful stress free Experience even in trying times.
Subject: Re: control
From: LuvToU2@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:20:47 EDT
Wow, I'm sure not ready for the nothing. I love the Everything. I think that's what Earth is for........the Everything. I know all the philosophies behind striving for the nothing..........and I know the 'bless you for your experience'......but my goodness, I think LIFE is for enjoying not numbing. And enlightenment cannot come from numbing.......it comes from experiencing and the choices made. I know this is going nowhere here with the predominant mindset here but I have met so many who strive for this nothingness who end up with cancer because they are so filled with pretending they are above feelings, etc. that it's sad. And over the years, as a healer, I've helped so many find permission to experience Everything.
Sammara
Subject: Re: control
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 22:39:37 GMT
Greetings Sammara, you wrote: ->Wow, I'm sure not ready for the nothing.
You are not ready for Bliss ? You are not ready for Peace ? You are not ready for no Suffering ? It would seem that all are ready, but not all Truly Understand the Nothing. For Nothing IS Nothing left to let go, No conditioned notion to drop, No-Thing left to attach to, Nothing left in the Way of Awakening.
-> I love the Everything. I think ->that's what Earth is for........the Everything.
Before there can Truly BE Love there must BE No-Thing as an object of that Love. As long as there is still a Thing there is only *like* or *preference* or *Judgement* based on conditionings (Things left to let go).
-> I know all the philosophies ->behind striving for the nothing..........
Nothing, No-Thing, is not a philosophy but rather an actual state of BEing. So a *reaction* to such would seem to be merely a misunderstanding. The Grand Trickster rearing it's head in defiance perhaps. But definitely not a philosophy or concept or intellectualization.
->and I know the 'bless you for your ->experience'......but my goodness, I think LIFE is for enjoying not numbing.
Not only for Enjoying Dear Friend, but for Living. But how can Life BE Lived Chained to Things ? That is not Life, that is Prison. In fact, a Zoo. Controlled/manipulated by Things, that is Life ? Burdened by the ever Directives of Things is Life ? Things are the very Causes of the conditioned concept of loss and ownership and identity and thus Slavery. Slaves/Prisoners exist, they do not Live.
->And enlightenment cannot come from numbing.......
Agreed, so why be numbed by Things ? By this "numbing" do you mean *sensations* ? If so, indeed Enlightenment can not BE via a life of sense-orientation. But a life of sense orientation instant gratification *of Things* is a life of Suffering. Though granted, it does seem to be *life in our times*. And perhaps that is the Cause that greed and conflict and corruption and war is running the whole world amuck. The Cheap Thrills do not last Eternally, thus we Seek more Thrills. How "numbing" is it when the Thrills are gone ?
->it comes from experiencing ->and the choices made.
Choices add more Illusion to the Grand Trickster's Game. Sleeping we have no choice because we do whatever we are conditioned to do, and Awakening we have no choice because we can only do what must be done. So the *Choice Option* of the Game is but a Rationalization for not have a choice.
-> I know this is going nowhere here with the predominant ->mindset here but I have met so many who strive for this nothingness who end ->up with cancer because they are so filled with pretending they are above ->feelings, etc. that it's sad.
Do not know about the seeming "predominant mindset here", but I too have seen many who know not what they are doing or say and wind up in an asylum. And there are the Chirping Parrots who Talk the Talk but go around in a WheelChair. Indeed one must Truly Understand what Nothing IS before they can actually BE it or even relate it. The telltale clue is that they *think* they have something -- something is not No-Thing. To Truly Understand it one must BE it.
->And over the years, as a healer, I've helped so ->many find permission to experience Everything.
Please do not misconstrue Directly Experiencing Everything being opposite to BEing Nothing, for BEing No-Thing IS the Total Direct Experience of Every-Thing but Totally Directly Experiencing Every-Thing AS One. So please look a bit Deeper into Nothing {8-> It just may turn out to BE Everything {8->
Subject: Re: control
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 02:16:54 GMT
Greetings Sammara, you wrote: ->Thank you for sharing YOUR perspective and thank you for hearing mine.
Question: why must there always be *ownership* ? Why must there always be a *your's and mine* ? Is that not at the root of Conflict ? And war, and hatred, and selfishness, and corruption, and a myriad of most social ills ? Why can something not simply BE ? Preferably AS it IS ? Rather than anyone's "perspective" ? Why is this ?
Subject: Love ?
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 13:45:25 -0700
Love is dribble, love is folly, love is a misconstrued, over rated word, created by the mind or judgement. Whether we say love is- or love is not. Love, as awakening or enlightenment, can not be known or recognized. Love does not exist, can not be created, can not be discarded, can not be found, can not be lost. One can neither hold love in their hands, their shopping bags or in their hearts and minds. Love is an illusion.
Those who speak of love, do not or can not know what love is, only the illusion of what we have been conditioned to believe what love is or feels like.
I dunno
Blessings. Sharlene
Subject: Re: change is perennial
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 23:19:29 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->"It WAS Real THEN but is NOT Real NOW, so it is ->conditioned Folly to think that WAS is as Real as NOW." -> ->u sed this, ray, in a response to mr parks, but i wonder sumtimes, ray, if ->the THEN & NOW are 'knot' konnekted in sum 'mysterious ways'... ->is it possible for THEN & NOW& LATER to be a 'kontinuem'?
Indeed connected in a certain way, though not very Mysterious. THEN is the foundation of NOW as NOW is the foundation of HEREAFTER in a never ending Flow of Change. Change being the Key, as THEN is no longer THEN NOW, as NOW will no longer be NOW HEREAFTER. Yes, clinging to THEN then THEN is also NOW and clinging to HEREAFTER is also HEREAFTER NOW rendering NOW as unreal as THEN and HEREAFTER. So though Life is indeed an uninterrupted Walk Step by Step, as each Step is taken the preceding Step no loner is being Stepped and the next Step has not been taken yet. No one leaving crumbs along the way so as to find our way back.
->kan this BE where the Moment IS?
There is a certain *window*, as when sending a trajectory into space, that IS the Present Moment. When we miss the *window* we miss the Moment, and you do not have to be a rocket scientist to calculate that. "When you're Hot you're Hot, when you're Not you're Not". "Some times you feel like a Nut, and some times you don't". Simple.
->in THENNOWANDLATER
Sounds a little confusing/confused. It would be nice to have our cake and eat it too, but the Fact of the matter is that the Baker can not find the *window* to serve us the cake. So we miss the Happy Birthday Party.
->or more specifikally, at:THIS VERY MOMENT IN WHICH U ARE...
And on either side of the *window* we are NOT.
->at:TENSION!!!
Yes, much "tension" when we try to get through to space on either side of the *window*. Literally Burns us up. The *window*, keep your eye on the *window* and *steady as she goes* right smack dab AS the Moment. Otherwise you will crack your head on either side of the *window*.
->becuz to me, the moment in which i am is also the moment of the thennowand ->later...
Oh..... to you. There is the *spin*. Opinions are like butts, everyone has one and the best we can do with them is to sit on them.
->what am i missing here?
The butt always gets stuck in the *window*, Bertha.
->the wing the of gulls konnekting the sea & the aire?
Though the "sea & the aire" would be connected even if there were no "gulls", all three are connected as All are connected without any dependant on the other.
->or the diskovery of the ZERO... ->what is the MOMENT but the O from which both M's move...
When the "zero' is discovered it is a mere place holder. When the "zero" IS AS we ARE, we ARE the "zero" with Nothing/No-Thing betwixt.
->i give my self a 'bow' for that ->but also a 'whack' for identifying with bukowski & waits...
Indeed, legends in our own mind.
->& speaking of weights - ->the MOMENT is PRESENCE & ABSENCE KOMBINDED
In a Real sense, this is True. For there is only Presence AS the Moment without attachment to or projection on any given particular that IS that Moment. Here yet Not Here, an ever anew orientation Eternally Infinite in nature and scope.
->like kites in the wind ->it's the string that makes u the master...
Or like Puppets and the Master Puppeteer is the Grand Trickster, as the conditionings/opinions are the Master's strings connecting the conditioned programmed controlled manipulated automaton.
Subject: Re: Love ?
From: <furst@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 16:46:29 -0700
I see that we all have are experiences of love! When I share with another without judging being unbiased & allowing others to be who they are in complete acceptance there IS LOVE! Love is not something that is a condition or conditioned in my reality...it exist all there is IS LOVE.
God Bless In Light & Love
L. Furst
Subject: re: love
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@telus.net>
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:02:27 -0700
is 'knot' love the essence of 'awakening'?
"Those who speak of love, do not or can not know what love is, only the illusion of what we have been conditioned to believe what love is or feels like."
tell that to jalaludin, sharlene... or david copperfield... or any of the other 'illusionares' in the foreign legion... better yet, tell it to ur self when klarity returns...
are u an 'exile' as well? (meaning this kindly, not as a slur - i am 'thee' celestial exile me-self but getting letters from the 'homeland' that hold much promise for my return from ayssinia or wherever it wuz that rimbaud finally laid down his guns...)
from what spring does kompassion flow if 'knot' from the 'heart'?..
have u 'bin' fatally bruised, sharlene or merely the transit of the moon into an opposing sign?
i suspekt 'ex-haustion' or merely a ruse to tweak the forum into sum serious diskussions?
i dunno either
ernesto
do 'knot' be down, sugarbear; aside from ray's halogen flashlite & nite-vision specs, ur kandle shows the same way in a 'gentler' lite... u do 'know', shar,
Subject: Re: love
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 04:44:54 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->is 'knot' love the essence of 'awakening'?
There is love and there is Love. In the Sleeping realm a loosely used word to encompass just about anything and everything. The love of things, the objects of Desires, actually only really means *like*. Now, Love in the Awakening realm IS Compassion of All. Not objectified or directed to any given thing. So both in the Sleeping realm and in the Awakening realm it is just a word. In the Sleeping realm to indicate liking this or that, and in the Awakening realm to indicate Compassion for All. Hence Sharnanda's disenchantment will the Sleeping realm's use of the word, it seems.
->"Those who speak of love, do not or can not know what love is, only the ->illusion of what we have been conditioned to believe what love is or feels ->like."
*Deep Bow* Sharnanda.
->tell that to jalaludin, sharlene... or david copperfield... or any of the ->other 'illusionares' in the foreign legion... better yet, tell it to ur ->self when klarity returns...
Awakening, we ARE Love. Sleeping, we just talk of what we Desire or like.
->from what spring does commission flow if 'knot' from the 'heart'?..
Do not confuse Compassion with the use of the word love in the Sleeping realm, they are not the same (as indicated above). And even though the Sleeping realm may use the word Compassion, they have no clue as to what it means so only use it to sound good or to rationalize their use of the word love.
->do 'knot' be down, sugarbear; aside from ray's halogen flashlite & ->nite-vision specs, ur kandle shows the same way in a 'gentler' lite... u do ->'know', shar,
Indeed Sharnanda is a Beacon of Light to many, Pointing the Way as she does. So, again, do not misconstrue *telling it like it is* for some form of depression. A Spade is a Spade, Dear Friend, whether the Sleeping realm wants to call it a Shovel or not. True ?
Subject: a kwestion
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@telus.net>
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:55:52 -0700
" Indeed connected in a certain way, though not very Mysterious. THEN is the foundation of NOW as NOW is the foundation of HEREAFTER in a never ending Flow of Change. Change being the Key, as THEN is no longer THEN NOW, as NOW will no longer be NOW HEREAFTER. Yes, clinging to THEN then THEN is also NOW and clinging to HEREAFTER is also HEREAFTER NOW rendering NOW as unreal as THEN and HEREAFTER. So though Life is indeed an uninterrupted Walk Step by Step, as each Step is taken the preceding Step no longer is being Stepped and the next Step has not been taken yet. No one leaving crumbs along the way so as to find our way back."
the Way back is irrelevant - it is only in the mind that we have eyes in the back of our heads - so that what we see behind us is not Real - or if it is Real (as it kan be in certain states) then it is Real in imagination only - it's the victor who writes the 'his story' books... yes, indeedy, what is behind is no longer 'there' - it is behind... i guess my question is more about whether what is 'behind' is still there - in 'behindness' as in the stone i stepped on whilst krossing the 'pond' IS still there for 'sherlock holmes' smarter brother' to step on???
in other words, are there 'knot' so & so many stations (let's say 12) that the 'skytrane' stops at???... in that kase, are the stones not still there though by stepping on them they are gone from my 'his-story'?
are sum things not perrenial? like life & death? like love & hate? like light & the absence of? like my breath, though each one be different, it is still a breath i take, n'est-ce pas? like every other sherpa in the forefront of those who konquer everest?... & everest is always there - perhaps only different footsteps, yes?
different footprints, the same mount - yes, the uniqueness of each moment - see i've brought my self around to sum small grasp of the legless frog...
forget i wrote this - timelessness is slipperier than an eel or a weasel - though at times i do have a konprehension of how the thing unfolds...
s'kuse me, i'm gonna have to sidle up to the bar for an other one... hang my mug over the same 'rale' as the other 'ones', lapping at my own face in the river...
lost my point, ray... though in truth i had no point to make - merely wanted to 'here' my self talk...
& what u say about leaving 'krumbs' behind me, whether they be roger's or mine - by the time i turn my 'i's' behind me usually sum garden gnome has absconded with the goods & i find my self loster than ponce de leon... but this is the nature of the beast, not so? what is a 'moment past' to me IS a Moment Now for that which is Be-hind - relatively speaking - to the gnome it is the Moment Now...
fluffing the pillow, casting sheets aside, i'll be brushing krumbs till the mourning...
Subject: Re: a kwestion
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 06:16:01 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->E.J.:" Indeed connected in a certain way, though not very Mysterious. THEN is ->the foundation of NOW as NOW is the foundation of HEREAFTER in a never ->ending Flow of Change. Change being the Key, as THEN is no longer THEN ->NOW, as NOW will no longer be NOW HEREAFTER. Yes, clinging to THEN then ->THEN is also NOW and clinging to HEREAFTER is also HEREAFTER NOW rendering ->NOW as unreal as THEN and HEREAFTER. So though Life is indeed an ->uninterrupted Walk Step by Step, as each Step is taken the preceding Step no ->longer is being Stepped and the next Step has not been taken yet. No one ->leaving crumbs along the way so as to find our way back." -> ->the Way back is irrelevant - it is only in the mind that we have eyes in the ->back of our heads - so that what we see behind us is not Real
*Deep Bow*
->- or if it is ->Real (as it kan be in certain states) then it is Real in imagination only -
And Dreams.
->it's the victor who writes the 'his story' books... yes, indeedy, what is ->behind is no longer 'there' - it is behind...
*Deep Bow*
-> i guess my question is more ->about whether what is 'behind' is still there - in 'behindness' as in the ->stone i stepped on whilst krossing the 'pond' IS still there for 'sherlock ->holmes' smarter brother' to step on???
When you step on the stone it was a Present Moment that you stepped on it. That it is still there for another to step on in the Present Moment they step on it has nothing to do with the ever anew Present Moment. When something is done it is done when it is done, not before it is done or after it is done. How many things have you done before or after you have done them ? Other than in your mind, as that is where we process the harbored concept of past and future.
->in other words, are there 'knot' so & so many stations (let's say 12) that ->the 'skytrane' stops at???... in that kase, are the stones not still there ->though by stepping on them they are gone from my 'his-story'?
Why history ? You stepped on a stone and another, yet the first stone did not disappear though you stepping on it did. You associate the step with the stone stepped on, thus cling to the stone. Follow the step Moment to Moment and let the stone BE.
->are sum things not perrenial? like life & death? like love & hate? like ->light & the absence of? like my breath, though each one be different, it is ->still a breath i take, n'est-ce pas?
Life is life and death is death, as love is love and hate is hate, as light is light and darkness is darkness, as breath is breath. Yet not the same life and death and love and hate and light and darkness and breath from Moment to Moment, as each Moment is anew each Moment thus always Present. A constant Flow of Presence.
->like every other sherpa in the ->forefront of those who konquer everest?... & everest is always there - ->perhaps only different footsteps, yes?
True. Particulars in the phenomenal realm remain for a duration, thus always seem to *be there*. Yet the Direct Experience of such only happens Once, and if Directly Experienced a second time the second Direct Experience is anew and not the same as the first Direct Experience.
->different footprints, the same mount - yes, the uniqueness of each moment - ->see i've brought my self around to sum small grasp of the legless frog...
*Deep Bow* It just takes an Open Honest Quest {8->
->forget i wrote this - timelessness is slipperier than an eel or a weasel - ->though at times i do have a konprehension of how the thing unfolds...
Another *Deep Bow*
->lost my point, ray... though in truth i had no point to make - merely ->wanted to 'here' my self talk...
Can not lose what you never had. The pointless point, ever so blunt.
->& what u say about leaving 'krumbs' behind me, whether they be roger's or ->mine - by the time i turn my 'i's' behind me usually sum garden gnome has ->absconded with the goods & i find my self loster than ponce de leon... but ->this is the nature of the beast, not so? what is a 'moment past' to me IS a ->Moment Now for that which is Be-hind - relatively speaking - to the gnome it ->is the Moment Now...
*Deep Bow*
Subject: re: love
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:27:21 -0700
Hi Volker,
>from what spring does kompassion flow if 'knot' from the 'heart'?..
"The Heart"? What is the heart? Is it that thing that beats so many times a minute? Or is the heart, your very essence of being? All talk of love stems from a romantic or attachment perspective.
How many have experienced being love? How many can describe it? And even if they tried, it would be impossible to convey what it is. And it isn't even a something, or an it. It is easy to say what people think is love. And it is easy to say what one thinks love is not, and if you continue the list of what love is not, you end up with nothing. A standstill, a blank, so love is what exists when everything is gone. Therefore, love, like enlightenment, is never known. To me it is that simple, and it was like a light bulb flashing in my head.
We don't feel love, we don't know love, how can we love another, if we haven't experienced love for ourselves?
And you may be right on the discussion thing ha ha.
Shar,
Subject: What do you think & feel?
From: <furst@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:46:34 -0700
Hello Humanity,
When you hear,see,or read *I am in the world,yet I am not from the world?*
In Light & Love
Peace
L. Furst
Subject: RE: love
From: Sharlene <sharlene@light-mission.org>
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 08:42:51 -0700
Hi Tom, you wrote: >What does it mean? >To love the touch of someone, or to be repelled
It means we are living in the I and me, instead of being one with all. And that's the way it is until it isn't.
>To love a certain song, and to despise another song
To experience others concepts of music.
>To resonate with certain ideas, and to dismiss others
We attract both what we agree with and what we don't. Like I have always said, a good book is one that sets us stronger in our beliefs and a bad book doesn't.
>To love to smell flowers, and to hate to smell trash
truly a physical thing. A judgement of good and bad. You may hate the smell of rotting garbage, and yet, you gotta love have a good dump. ha ha
>To love one type of food, and to hate another
Physical once again, taste buds or a lack of.
>To love the way someone looks because of muscles and fat and skin
Judgement calls.
>To love a walk in a garden, and to hate a walk in a dump
I enjoy taking garbage to the dump. I just don't care for the smell.
>In a holistic all is equal staring at what is, >You ignore that you love and ignore that you hate, >You ignore what you qualify and what you resonate with, >And in this ignoring, you only find ignorance.
Yes, ignoring is ignorance. Accepting is different. We need a dump in which to through the trash, we accept the smell because it is what is. Neither hating or loving it.
I dunno Shar
Subject: RE: love
From: "Ragland, Thomas" <TRagland@UMCOM.ORG>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:33:00 -0500
What does it mean? To love the touch of someone, or to be repelled To love a certain song, and to despise another song To resonate with certain ideas, and to dismiss others To love to smell flowers, and to hate to smell trash To love one type of food, and to hate another To love the way someone looks because of muscles and fat and skin To love a walk in a garden, and to hate a walk in a dump
If you get beyond love and beyond hate, Beyond attachment and revulsion, Beyond good and evil, In a holistic all is equal staring at what is, You ignore that you love and ignore that you hate, You ignore what you qualify and what you resonate with, And in this ignoring, you only find ignorance.
Subject: A Ray Of Light
From: Ray.of.Light@light-mission.org
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 04:46:46 GMT
Greetings Ye of Understanding,
Let it be understood from the very start, embarking into this hitherto uncharted area of Awakening, there are many a pit-falls and hurdles in our Way. If you are Open and Honest with yourself you will make strides in your Awakening. It is the Awakening of every level and every aspect of your BEing -- which includes everyday life. An Upwelling, and Upsurging, a Reckoning, of the Force of Awakening beseeching Recognition. Let it Flow, and let it Flow Naturally.
Subject: rerere:love
From: "Volker Munz" <volkerm@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 00:14:26 -0700
knot all of us are konditioned...
>"Those who speak of love, do not or can not know what love is, only the illusion of what we have been conditioned to believe what love is or feels like.<"
i speak of love therefore i doo knot or kan knot know what IT is - as u say, only the illusion of what we have bin konditioned to believe what love is or feels like...
so why speak of love, sharlene, when it's only an illusion... are u telling me sumthing 'knew'... hard to tell becuz ur statements are sumtimes seemingly kryptik, so self assured that i wonder if i'm missing something or else listening to sumbody who's kissproofedly klear...
i'll never know, will i, till i push off from the same shore...
>"Those who speak of love, do not or can not know what love is, only the illusion of what we have been conditioned to believe what love is or feels like.<"
why 'knot' speak instead of illusions & the konditionings that support them... love is after all a four letter word - why denigrating expletives that left the stage more than a dozen affairs ago... sum things live in light, sum live in the shadow - yet all things live - why send sum to the dustbin & others to the foot stool of the kween?... we are all of us in the same bag, are we 'knot' - except mayhaps the 'elder' who 'knowse' better... who is a 'stone' ahead of the one i just stepped on...
how IS IT with you?...
kontrairie wise?
or as IT kneads to BE for that which is needed?
i stopped talking about love ages ago when 'willful injustice' overwhelmed my sense of propriety - i moved to the frontiers, blending into the sagebrush where i can watch which way the fire flares - i have exiled my self from the 'kampers' though i may be the 'campiest' of them all... it don't really matter much - one fire is much the same as an other - it's the people who sit around it that make the difference...
tscheus, friedrich holderlin
Subject: Re: rerere:love
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 13:36:49 GMT
Greetings Volker, you wrote: ->knot all of us are konditioned...
And how is it es-caped ? We took this Job Kissproof, we got in-spired, got the Fever, caught the Cold, dis-eased, and now we have to take the Medicine to Cure IT. Love Potion #9 ?
Humanity is like a Sleeping conditioned programmed Eel Controlled manipulated have a Dream they *think* is real, The caterpillar does not have to Wake-Up so much later As the caterpillar is already BEing it's Divine True Nature.
The caterpillar is AS the True Nature that it IS AS Eternal Infinite Moment always AS the Present Moment perennial, A Wise Sage to Learn form indeed as it is always Freeing Humanity has to Work to get back to that State of BEing.
Also unlike that caterpillar who actually never has Slept Humanity now that it has gone to Sleep has to be kept, Never start Awakening unless he lets go what he keeps He can't say he is going to stop Sleeping as he Sleeps.
As long as we continue to take conditioned Sleeping Pills Many so called light-workers think it's about those Thrills, So is said humanity will some how magically start waking But as time passes good luck because they're just Faking.
It is really not so much about what we never ever did give But more of what we did give them so they could not Live, WE gave the foundation for a conditioned way to behave And what it really means to be The Grand Trickster's Slave.
Subject: Re: rerere:love
From: <furst@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 06:36:08 -0700
Greetings Humanity,
No one is hearing or even listening to what has or is being said unless it is from the ego of self-gratification.What misery of tricks one & all can play no one can pity anyone that wants to stay in the misery of pity.Love is only a word with a vastness of possibilities.Look beyond it for it is a sign to guide one to something that can not be expressed in any human communication. Why? For it IS & will always Be.
In Light & Love
L. Furst
Subject: Re: Love ?
From: <furst@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:39:03 -0700
Good Morning Oren,
For your knowing & understanding God Bless you...& then there is Light!
May you be well In Light & Love Peace
L. Furst
Subject: Re: Love ?
From: o.dodge@att.net
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:51:36 +0000
Greetings - I had to weigh in on this one..."Love"
I think a good working definition of 'love' is..."the complete acceptance of what 'is' - and also what 'is NOT' ".
And it is in that context - and ONLY in that context - where awakening/enlightenment can be experienced - in that 'mental clearing' if you will - called "love".
"Love' is a vital ingredient of enlightenment. Excuse me - did I say vital ingredient?...better make that the ONLY ingredient. Because your chances of experiencing enlightenment/awakening without love - without the ability to totally accept reality the way it 'is' - and 'is not' - is about as probable as baking a loaf of bread without flour.
When you can 'love" reality - when you can experience the 'here and now' with the COMPLETE acceptance of what 'is' - and 'is NOT' - that is...without taxing it with any desires or judgments conjured up by one's mind - you will find yourself standing squarely on the elusive "path".
I think one problem people have with the word/context of "love" is that they tend to confuse/equate it with an emotion or judgment called "like". The truth is - these two contexts have nothing to do with one another.
When you "like" (or dislike) something - it's by definition a judgment call - it's reality run thru the 'mental blender' of the mind. It's what you 'think' of the 'here and now' - of reality. It involves one's opinion.
And the phrase "in love" is a whole other can of worms! Usually when people say that they are "in love" with someone, it usually only means that they have a hormonal-based desire to jump someone's bones!
But when you "love" something as I defined it above - it only means you accept it EXACTLY the way it "is" - (or "is not"). And that by definition is void of ANY judgment or opinion.
The point is - you can actually "love" something - 'accept' it - without actually "liking" it.
love & grace oren
Subject: Re: Love ?
From: ejLight@light-mission.org (E.J.)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2002 03:29:07 GMT
Greetings Oren,
You Goof, why have you been hiding out ? You used to be a great contributor to the Community, and have been missed. I have tried my best to get a rise out of you but you have stayed calm {8-> *Deep Bow* Good to See your footprints grace this little Oasis again Dear Friend.
Subject: Re: Love ? - Response to Oren
From: "Solstice" <solstice@sagetree.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:05:53 -0400
Greetings,
The silent one just has to comment with a resounding "YES Oren"!!!! I understand what you are saying. Love has been very difficult for me, quite a rocky road to walk full of mis-understandings and confusion of semantics and emotions and judgements clouding everything. This was/is a very difficult lesson for me, particularly learning that it is ok to love but still not like.
It seems like everything always comes down to acceptance. It is so hard sometimes, yet it makes life so simple. Once we have acceptance we flow rather than struggle....
Thank you for your thoughts Oren!
Love and Light Christine
º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º
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